Committee Hearing, April 7, 2008

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, April 7, 2008, 10:15 a.m. - - - Bill 080022 - Amending Philadelphia Code re tax rates, credits, and alternative tax computation... Bill 080157 - Amending Philadelphia Code re tax rates, credits, and alternative tax computation... Bill 080160 - Re Parking Tax, establishing rate of taxation on parking transactions... Bill 080164 - Re construction, encroachments, projections over, on, and under streets... Bill 080165 - Re Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code, amending fee schedule for various construction-related activities... Committee Members Present: Anna C. Verna, Chair Marian B. Tasco, Co-Chair Darrell L. Clarke Bill Green William K. Greenlee Curtis Jones, Jr. Jack Kelly James F. Kenney Donna Reed Miller Frank Rizzo Maria D. Quinones-Sanchez - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Specialists 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 I N D E X WITNESS L&I John Elfrey, Acting Commissioner.......... Bridget Greenwald, Admin. Services Dir. Deputy Commissioner Dominic Verdi......... 29 5 Deputy Commissioner Eileen Evans.......... 63 Otis Haigler, Legislative Affairs Dir. 173 6 Steve Agostini, Budget Director........... 85 7 Board of L&I Review 8 Bridget Greenwald, Admin. Services Dir. 181 9 Board of Building Standards Bridget Greenwald, Admin. Services Dir. 183 10 Board of L&I Review 11 Bridget Greenwald, Admin. Services Dir. 184 Susan Jaffe, Zoning Board Chair........... 187 Water Department Bernard Brunwasser, Commissioner.......... 199 Debra McCartey, Deputy Commissioner....... 217 Joseph Clare, Deputy Commissioner......... 222 Steve Furtek, Chief Engineer.............. 247 Rhina Cutler, Deputy Mayor................ 269 for Transportation and Utilities Steve Agostini, Budget Director........... 300 Board of Ethics Richard Glazer, Chair..................... 322 Shane Creamer, Executive Director......... 332 Youth Commission Benjamin Dubow, Appointee................. 411 Steve Agostini, Budget Director........... 417 3 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

Good morning, everyone. This is a continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill No.'s 080022, 080157, 080160, 080164, and 080165. The first department to testify... MR. McPHERSON: ... is the Department of Licenses and Inspections. (Witnesses come forward.)

Good morning. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Good morning.

Please identify yourself for the record. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I'm John Elfrey, Acting Commissioner for the Department of Licenses and Inspections.

Proceed with your testimony, please. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Good morning, Council President Verna and 4 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 members of Council. I am John Elfrey, Acting Commissioner for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. Accompanying me today are key members of the department's management team, including Deputy Commissioner Eileen Evans, Deputy Commissioner Dominic Verdi, and our administrative services director, Bridget Collins-Greenwald. We appreciate the opportunity to present our Fiscal Year 2009 Operating Budget request to City Council and to provide you with our plans for the upcoming year. The Department of Licenses and Inspections is requesting a total FY '09 budget of $40,602,397, of which $29,635,668 is in the City's General Fund, $10,250,000 is in the Grants Revenue Fund, and $716 729 is in the Community Development Fund. The FY '09 request will fund 374 General Fund positions and includes a total of $10 million in 5 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 demolition funding. As always, we will continue to prioritize emergency, public safety, and economic development concerns, and will maximize productivity with current resources. The mission of the Department of Licenses and Inspections is to administer and enforce the City's Code requirements for the enhancement of public safety. Through the issuance the building, electrical, fire, plumbing and zoning permits, we will enhance public safety, foster economic development, contribute to healthy and sustainable neighborhoods, provide excellent customer service, and contribute to a high-performing government. Through our inspection process, we will enhance public safety, educate our customers, and improve the quality of life in our city. 6 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 Finally, through our licensing process, we will provide exemplary customer service, foster healthy and sustainable neighborhoods, and contribute to the economic development of the City. We will develop plans for publicizing our customer service standards on our website and in waiting areas of the department. We are also working with the Law Department to determine redress standards if do not meet our established goals. We will develop more accurate measures to describe the benefits of the department's activities. Finally, we will coordinate our clean-and-seal, demolition, and inspection activity with the Philadelphia Police Department in the nine designated high-crime areas as well as other sections of the City. We will design our customer 7 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 service standards through information gathered from focus groups and customer surveys. We will then implement customized customer-service training to improve the level of understanding of our customers' needs and begin to develop a comprehensive leadership team-building training to ensure that all of our managerial and supervisory personnel clearly understand and are working toward the same customer-service standards. We will electronically store historic zoning information and make it easily available for our customers and staff to access for research. We will also conduct an analysis to determine an appropriate fee structure to offset these costs. We are investigating establishing a local international code council chapter comprised of code officials, design professionals, developers, contractors, and others in 8 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 the industry to work outside the Code -- to work together outside the Code enforcement arena to improve the built environment through cooperation, consistency, and integrity. This chapter will also sponsor training seminars on local codes and how to properly submit plans for the City, thus saving customers and employees the time they spend conducting multiple reviews for projects.

In cooperation with Licenses and Inspections, the Building Industry Association has recommended that the City more efficiently L&I sections of the public-area concourse in the Municipal Services Building. We will develop a plan to more efficiently utilize the back office space to raise the productivity level of our existing staff. Overall, through the use of FY '09 budgetary funds, the department is committed to achieving the maximum 9 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 customer-service satisfaction, contributing to the safety of all citizens, and providing assistance in the areas of neighborhood sustainability and economic development. I would be happy to answer any questions at this time.

Thank you very much, Commissioner. Can you tell us how many General Fund positions you were budgeted for in Fiscal 2008? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Council President, that number is 375.

I think -- I believe it was 386, according to the detail. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: The additional people were probably the Vacant Lot folks that are funded under the Managing Director's Office along with the CLIP personnel that would make up the difference. 10 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

Would you look at of the detail, please. (Witness complies.) COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yeah, the difference would be with the Vacant Lot folks funded in the Managing Director's Office and the CLIP Program.

So who's -- where are they going, to the Managing Director's Office or -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: They've been there for quite some time, ma'am. Licenses and Inspections funds -- I'm sorry. Licenses and Inspections is reimbursed through the Managing Director's Office for the Vacant Lot Program and the CLIP Program. And we'll be happy to provide you a detailed analysis on that, but that's been happening for sometime.

Really? 11 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes.

I don't quite understand that, but -- so we're going to have approximately 6 positions eliminated or -- explain that 7 to me, because I'm not quite 8 understanding. 9 Somebody's doing the work in 10 your department and they had been in 11 your budget and they're not going to 12 be in '09; does that mean that we're eliminating positions? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: No, ma'am. I don't know that we're eliminating any positions. And we'll be happy to give you a detailed analysis of that.

Are you going to look at of the detail? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I'm going to ask Bridget Greenwald to step up.

Good morning. I'm Bridget Collins-Greenwald, the 12 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 administrative services director for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. In our target budget in FY '08, we were targeted for 375 General Fund positions. I don't think you're seeing that in the detail on ; you're looking at the original appropriation.

But we budgeted for 386.

It was 386. In our target budget, though, for Fiscal Year '08, we were at 375. So basically, our Fiscal Year '09 budget mirrors our Fiscal Year '08 target budget.

So it's still a reduction of 12 positions, as we understand it.

There was a reduction from the original appropriation to the target budget last year, yes, but we're actually working 13 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 within that target budget right now, so we're actually not really losing a position from where we're at currently.

Can you tell us how many vacancies you currently have? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We have vacancies... all of which we're in 10 the process of filling. 11

I beg 12 your pardon? 13 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: All of 14 which we're in the process of filling; 15 we expect to have them all filled 16 within the next three months. 17

18 That's good to here. 19

Point of 20 information, Madam Chair. 21

Yes. 22 The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo. 23

Could you be 24 specific and tell us where those 25 vacancies are, the 25, for the record, 14 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 please? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Sure. We have nine abatement workers for our clean-and-seal unit, four field investigators, a programmer analyst, a housing -- two housing and fire inspectors, public administration analyst, an engineering specialist, a contract clerk, two civil engineers, three service reps, and two more housing and fire inspectors.

That obviously would have an impact on any organization, Madam President, so I'm pleased to hear that -- within three months you're telling us -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We're confident.

We're going to follow up on that because when it's my turn, I have some questions about field inspections, so we'll talk more about that in a minute, but thank you for reporting that. 15 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Okay.

Are there any existing civil service lists for the vacancies that exist? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes, there are.

Well, why would it take three months to fill these positions? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I said for all of them, ma'am. There's lists for some. I think one or two we don't have a list, but I'll be happy to provide that information. We have lists for clean-and-seal workers, and that accounts for nine of the vacancies. We also have lists for some of the inspectors, and we're in the process of interviewing and pulling them off the list.

And you say that will take three months? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I said 16 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 that would take three -- I'm saying from this point forward for three months, we should have all filled, 5 okay. So I'm not saying for those that 6 have an existing -- 7

Well, 8 how about the nine that you say we have 9 an existing list for; when would they 10 be hired? 11 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: First 12 week of May. 13

14 That's a little different. 15 Commissioner, you mentioned in 16 your testimony that you will be 17 developing customer-service standards; 18 when do you expect to have them 19 developed? 20 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Working 21 with Philly Stat and the Managing 22 Director's Office, we hope to have our 23 customer-service standards developed by 24 the middle to the end of May. 25

The 17 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 revenue projection for your department are $45.6 million for Fiscal Year 2009. The projections indicate that you will be collecting $2.9 million from street use, an increase of $500,000 over Fiscal '08. Can you explain what street use is and how you will be able to generate an additional $500,000 in '09? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I'm going to ask Miss Greenwald to give you an answer.

Yes. We projected that based on looking at historical data of the revenue that was coming in, so we increased the revenue projection somewhat for Fiscal Year '09. As for the street-use permit, I'm not exactly -- (Addressing colleagues.) Can you say exactly what that one is, the street-use permit? Hmm, I'd have to get back to 18 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 you exactly on the specifics of that. We just looked at the historical trend of the revenue that was coming in. The street-use permit exactly, I, unfortunately, am not familiar exactly what that is.

Does anybody know? (No immediate response.)

Does anybody know? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We will get that information for you.

You're also projecting to collect $20 million in building structure and equipment, which is also an increase of $500,000 over FY '08. Can you explain what permits generate these funds and how you will increase collections?

Yes. Those permits are our building permits, and we have had in the past -- historically in the past five years, we've seen the 19 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 trend increasing in our building-permit fees, so we just based that projection on what we've seen over the past few years.

You know, with the current economy and I think -- I don't see much building going on these days.

Well, we actually -- excuse me. We actually haven't seen that decrease in our permit revenue coming in to date, so we've actually still have been pretty optimistic of with our revenue projections. We're actually ahead in Fiscal Year '08 of where we thought we would actually be at this point.

Commissioner, on of the Five-Year Plan, it states: L&I will develop a comprehensive public relations campaign to communicate about the services offered by the department. The campaign will involve print-media 20 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 outreach of community and business groups and the distribution of fact sheets outlining services to more specifically-defined groups within the City. To deal with abandoned buildings, Neighborhood Services Division will formulate a targeted demolition plan. L&I will work with operating departments, City Council, and residents to coordinate efforts to bring neighborhoods into Code compliance. The department will develop measures to monitor success and communicate achievements to City residents. What is the projected cost of the public relations campaign? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Most of the public relations -- it -- we project it to be minimal. I don't have a solid number yet, but most of that campaign will be through community meetings, working through City Council, working with neighborhood groups to get 21 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 the word out. We also plan to enhance our website tremendously. We want to get the word out on what L&I does, how it does it, and how the community can help us to do our job, using the Web. We -- that's basically how we plan to do it.

Where would we find these minimal funds budgeted? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: They're basically on our Class 200 administrative costs. As I said, we don't have a solid dollar number yet; when we do, we will publicize it.

Can you tell us the status of the targeted demolition plan. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Deputy Commissioner Evans, along with staff, is working with the amount that we have budgeted to try and do small 22 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 neighborhood packages. We haven't identified completely where they are. We will, of course, talk to Council when we do. But the thought is that instead of going in and maybe doing one demolition on Fourth Street and then coming back two months later and another demolition on Fifth Street, we would try to target them in a package. Basically, it's a customer service issue too. Less disruption to the neighborhood. We're hoping to reduce costs with economies of scale, and we hope to have that plan started in July or August of this year.

What is the cost of a demolition these days for a two-story building? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: About $26,000, three-story.

26,000? I remember it being 8,000. 23 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Excuse me, ma'am?

I said, 26,000? I remember L&I doing them for 8,000 -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Oh.

-- a couple of years ago. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Well, that includes --

I know time goes by when you're having fun. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Well, I don't have fun knocking down buildings.

But it just seems to me that it was a couple of years ago that it was costing 8,000. Is this -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: But that includes everything.

Is this for -- when you talk about demolition, are you including cleaning 24 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 the lot and grassing and the fencing? Is all of that included -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes, ma'am, it is.

-- in the price? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes, including the stuccoing on the side houses, if necessary. That's basically soup to nuts, yes.

Commissioner, can you tell us how you propose to bring neighborhoods into Code compliance? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I think, basically, through education and enforcement. Of course, we don't like to use enforcement, but I think the more we get the word out to folks -- and I this Saturday was a perfect example with the Mayor's cleanup. We need to build on that and focus on keeping our neighborhoods and our properties clean. 25 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 We're just going to try to educate the public through Council, through community groups, through community meetings, whichever, in any way we possibly can.

And can you tell us how you propose to bring City Council into the process? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We would like to meet with City Council and ask us -- ask you to help us to get the word out. I think it's very important that we leverage the knowledge and the experience you have with the neighborhoods to help us.

In your opinion, does the proposed L&I budget for Fiscal Year '09 fund all of the initiatives as stated in the Five-Year Plan? How do we propose -- do you think we're going to be able to do all of that? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We're certainly going to try, ma'am, yes. 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

Okay. We wish you success. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Thank you.

The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo. Oh, I'm sorry. Each Councilmember will get five minutes because there are a number of Councilmembers that do want to be recognized. Councilman Rizzo.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Prior to NTI, the budget item for demolitions, to follow up on President Verna's question, was $20 million per year. That money was committed to NTI bond debt service for thirty years to fund what essentially was a five-year program. In this budget, I see that the funding for the Five-Year Plan for demolition is now $10 million a year. 27 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 Why -- you know, what's that about, and is that an adequate funding level at this time? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: You're speaking of the NTI funding or the General Fund demolition?

The NTI funding went from twenty to ten. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yeah, and I think that's basically being reduced because it's towards the end of the program. There's demolitions left in approximately five Council Districts, totaling, I believe, about 198 demolitions.

But it was initially planned for million, so 19 someone changed the number. 20 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I can't answer that question, sir.

Could you get back to us on that. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Certainly.

How that 28 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 number got changed, please. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Sure.

Going back now to the vacancies that you have 6 -- 7 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Mm-hmm. 8

-- let's 9 talk about the ones that I kind of 10 think are very, very important. Let's 11 talk about inspections that you -- your 12 department does. Could you go over the 13 various types of inspections that you 14 do? 15 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: The 16 neighborhood services unit does 17 quality-of-life inspections basically 18 for exterior quality-of-life property 19 maintenance violation. We do housing 20 and fire inspections, both in 21 commercial buildings, we do inspections 22 inside homes. We do inspections for 23 demolition activity. We do weights and 24 measures inspections. We visit gas 25 stations and supermarkets to check the 29 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 scales and check to make sure that the proper amount of gas is being issued.

Restaurants. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Permitting, construction services.

Restaurants? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Well, we do restaurants as it relates to housing and fire and electrical -- not housing and fire, but fire and electrical inspections. The Health Department does inspections for restaurants.

Let me ask you, are some of those inspections that you just described, are they required annually, semiannually? How frequently are you required to do that work? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Let me ask Deputy Commissioner Verdi to step up. (Witness comes forward.) DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Good morning. Deputy Commissioner Dominic Verdi. 30 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 To answer your questions, Councilman, some are required yearly, some are required every two years. I'd have to give you a list of what type of -- if you'd let me know what type of inspection you're speaking of, I can give you a better answer.

I'll get right to my point; we don't need to go do a lot of research. Are you current -- based on 13 vacancies -- and I did hear in the 14 list some inspectors -- are you 15 meeting your mandate? Are you doing 16 all you're supposed to do annually 17 where you're required to do annually 18 and every two years? Are you on 19 target? Are you behind in any 20 inspections in our city? 21 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I am told 22 we are behind, yes. 23

You are 24 behind. 25 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes. And 31 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 we are currently --

Where are you behind? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We are behind in housing inspections, quality-of-life inspections.

That's it? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I've asked Deputy Commissioner Verdi and Deputy Commissioner Evans to compile of list of what we are behind in --

How significant -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: -- and how -- I don't have the final numbers yet, sir.

Well, let's -- if you're behind, somebody has a feeling how significant it is. I don't need to know if it's six months, two hours and 43 minutes. Do we have a problem or don't we? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I don't know that we have a problem that we 32 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 can't overcome once we get our full inspection staff on board.

Well, how many inspectors in that are you 6 missing? That doesn't sound like -- I 7 heard two, three. 8 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: No. I 9 think it's more than that. 10

Well, tell 11 me again. 12 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: It was a 13 total of seven. 14

So you're 15 down seven inspectors and you have a 16 list for those inspectors? 17 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Correct. 18

You're 19 behind and you don't hire them? 20 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes, we 21 are hiring them, sir. We're in the 22 process of hiring them now. 23

Okay. So 24 you'll have all -- 25 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: What I 33 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 said was, all 25 would be on board in three months in total.

When will the seven inspectors be hired? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I think we have lists. They should be on board, I would assume, by the middle of May.

So you're telling me the reason we're behind -- at least you believe we're behind is because of the lack of these seven inspectors? I mean, it makes sense. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Sure. It contributes to it, absolutely.

So we need to -- we would appreciate a report on how behind we are. And you anticipate that when you employ these seven inspectors, there's certainly a learning curve, how quickly you're going to be back on track, because obviously, we would want the most -- that inspection should be prioritized 34 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 in my opinion. The most significant inspections should be conducted first; would you agree with me on that? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: You're simply right, sir, and that's exactly what we've asked for.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, we really need to get a report. And I think we need to re-call L&I, Madam President, to talk about the significance of the backlog of work that they have. You're okay with that?

(Nods head.)

We're going to ask you to come back here with that information for the record. Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Jones. 35 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

Thank you, Madam President. I understand that you're behind, but can you enlighten me with the types of inspections we are behind on, the categories? I know there are inspectors that inspect buildings, I mean, but can you give us the categories of which we are behind on? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Okay.

And while the clock is still ticking, I'd like to also know, when it comes to landlords and renters and housing conditions, is that one of the categories we are behind on? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Go ahead. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: One of the categories we are behind on is some of the housing-related issues. We -- there's a staffing need, which the Commissioner has addressed, and we are going to prioritize all complaints and inspections regarding 36 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 fire and life safety.

I have "A Tale of Two Cities," and I'm going to try describe 'em. In one part of my district, which is the lower end of my district, which is the low- to moderate-income end of my district, I have a high concentration of renters and landlords, where conditions are falling below standard. And there is a need for L&I to come out and assist tenants on the conditions of those properties that they live in. In another part of my district -- East Falls, Roxborough and Manayunk -- we have a high degree of renters. The difference is quality-of-life issues, town-and-gown issues, where they aren't given a high degree of priority, because when you have to choose between an imminently dangerous party and someone's beer party, you tend to go to the 37 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 imminently dangerous party, which is logical. What I want to know is two things: One, can we ask that in high-renter districts that we tack on a -- and let's say if we came up with a formula that says when a neighborhood has over 40 percent renters that there be a zoning overlay or a requirement that they help to defray some of the costs by way of inspections or added inspections, both for areas like that, but also town-and-gown areas where we have high degrees of populations of students that are kind of running amok and the owners don't tend to care as much about the people who are actually stakeholders and home owners that get besieged with beer parties. So is there a way to -- I know there's a law on the books, I know it's not being enforced as much 38 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 because we don't have inspectors, but is there something we can do about that? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: We could work with Council to look at any type of a zoning overlay or any overlay that Council would like to have initiated. But just to let you know, just to clear up one issue: There is no -- I mean, we do have different types of inspectors. And when you say we respond to a dangerous building case before we respond to beer parties, we respond to them both in the same manner. We have two different inspectors that deal with that. We have inspectors that do deal with just dangerous buildings, and they come under Deputy Commissioner Eileen Evans. I have a group that deals with beer parties or those type of issues, 39 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 and we work closely with the Fifth District captain up in the Manayunk area in reference to the Nuisance Task Force. So we do address those issues equally when the complaints come to our attention.

I can assure you -- I've spent -- and I'm, in fact, going to invite the at-large Councilmembers to join me in a walking tour on a Friday or a Saturday night that shows what people have to live -- the conditions they have to live under. And I'm going to encourage my colleagues to join me on that. And I'm going encourage you to come with me -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: I'd be happy to do that.

-- to see if we are addressing that issue. And I would argue that we're not. And I'm not blaming you here 40 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 today. I'm saying that we have to address that issue. We have a good law on the books. What we don't have is enforcement. Same thing on the other end of my district, where we have a high degree of renters and we have a high degree of landlords who tend to know that they can, in fact, duck L&I inspections for a period of time because of the long degree of rotation; they know this. I know for a fact that Councilman Green and Councilman Rizzo have addressed that in different parts of this city. So maybe you're not up on it and but the owners are. And what we want to do is not point fingers or blame. We want to figure out what it takes to resolve these issues, and that's what we want a commitment to work with you on. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Councilman, we'll be happy to work with 41 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 you and we look forwarded to doing and resolving these issues. That's why we're here and that's what we plan to do, sir.

Well, the first thing, we're going take that walk with the at-larges and walk around the district and kind of take a bird's eye look at what many of the residents of the 4th District already know, which is that we need to get you some more resources up there. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We will be happy to accompany you and we will bring staff.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.

Good morning. My questions are kind of along 42 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 the same line as Councilman Rizzo and Councilman Jones. And particularly Councilman Jones said the one word, "enforcement," and that seems to be in my previous life, working with Councilman Cohen for many, many years, dealt with L&I a lot. And it seems like this is still pretty much the same situation. A person calls in with a complaint, a citizen, we do, whatever. And the original inspection gets done maybe not too bad a period of time, but that's when -- that's when it seems like it almost halts. The follow-up time, especially if it's not like a really, really major life-and-death thing. And then if still the violation isn't solved on the -- upon the second inspection, to get to enforcement through court seems to take forever. And these problems sit for long, long periods of time 43 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 again. Again, a lot of them may not be life and death,but they're certainly, as Councilman Jones said, a real problem in the community. And I was wondering -- and I know, when it gets to the enforcement or court, that's somewhat out of your hands 'cause you got court backlog and all, but could you just take me through the timeframe of what ideally you would like to see as far as original inspection, how long it takes, how long for a follow-up, and then if, again, the violator either refuses or is unable to do something, you know, how we finally get it done through enforcement. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I would like to see, after the original inspection, depending on the severity of the violation, that a reinspection occur within 30 days.

Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: That 44 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 would be the best-case scenario. Now, some violations do not require a 30-day reinspection; I think some are a little bit longer than that. And, Dominic, you can jump in in a second if you wish. But I would like to see us get into a program and follow that program and monitor it and track it and chart it and give this information to the public where we say, you know, inspection one is July 1st, inspection 2 is July 31st.

Right. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: And then soon after, another reinspection, if they don't comply, it goes to court. And we're going to do everything on our end because we control some of the flow with the Equity Court cases to get the cases out our shop as quickly as we possibly can and into the Law Department's hands. And, Dominic, if you can -- 45 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Councilman, I understand. The one part of your question is a valid question in reference to court cases. We have an issue -- our inspector will write a violation. The problem is, we don't always have physical contact with the owner.

Right. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: We have to make sure that the ownership is a valid ownership, then we have to -- and we go do the reinspection. For the moment, the reinspections are being done on a timely fashion. We have a new system that is able to track it and the supervisors will track it. Our problem is -- and you're correct in stating that our problem becomes an issue when it goes to the Municipal Court. The issue with Municipal Court is that it's then turned over to the court system to 46 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 actually or physically get a body to accept the subpoena that requires us to get them into court. Now, what happens is, in most cases -- in cases that involve major public safety, like if there's a fire alarm issue or if there's things of that nature, we'll try to abate the situation, and most of the times, 90 percent of that abatement means evacuating the building based upon its occupancy. But the issue does become a little -- it becomes cumbersome when it does have to go into the municipal court system. In larger buildings or buildings that we know we have a viable owner, we'll send it to Common Pleas Court, where we're able to get to give us judge --

Right. That's for equity -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Right, Equity Court, to be able to get 47 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 a judge to give this person a total deadline on when that case needs to be, you know, back before the judge. And even in them cases, we have issues where the judge may continue it, the lawyers may continue it; it becomes more or less a court issue.

Mm-hmm. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: But years ago, when we had the availability for some abatement, we were actually physically fixing the problem. But, unfortunately, we don't have that funding.

You talk about -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: And, Councilman, I'd just like to add that. We plan to take a wholistic approach and work with the Law Department on these issues too.

Okay. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Go ahead. 48 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

When you talk about abatement, it brings up one particular issue that I see one of the signs back here talked about and I was going to ask anyway. Landlords providing heat to residents, to tenants, you know, there's some, maybe they don't know, but there's obviously isn't adequate heat at certain times during the winter and people call in and complain. That seems to be that that should take a real priority; that should just go through, well, in 30 days, you're supposed to fix it. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: No, it doesn't, it doesn't.

And I -- yeah, that's what I was going to say. Could you take me through that? I mean, is there a issue when, say, a heater is just plain-out broken, the landlord won't fix it? Does L&I have the ability to just force the issue, go 49 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 in, fix it, bill the owner, that kind of thing? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: In some cases, we do have the ability -- we have emergency processes to repair the heat.

Mm-hmm. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Just to give you -- to let you know that most heat complaints are answered within a 24-hour period; I should say mostly. From what I see, all, 14 hours. 15

Mm-hmm. 16 DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: We 17 have a heat hotline that's answered 18 nights and weekends. 19

Right. 20 DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: We 21 have an emergency-duty person on 22 standby seven days a week, twenty-four 23 hours a day. So the heat complaints 24 are being responded to. I can't tell you how many 50 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 times I was called throughout the winter of people telling me they had to evacuate a building because of no 5 heat. We're not going to let people stay in the building, we're not giving that that 30-day process. Now, with our new reinspection fees, we're able to actually find the owner for any lengthy noncompliance, so we are taking a proactive stance on those type of violations, or those complaints.

All right. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Green.

Thank you, Madam President. I was reviewing a bunch of questions I had for you when Councilman Greenlee was asking 51 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 questions, so I apologize if he's already asked you this. One of his early questions related to following up after the initial inspection and then being able to keep track of that. You mentioned a, I guess, relatively new computer system that -- can you -- do you have essentially a work order entry or work order management system or an inspection computer system that creates deadlines and alerts for people to go out at different times, and can you talk about that briefly? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes. It's called the Hansen (sp?) system, and cases care created when a customer calls in. A case number's assigned, it's assigned to an inspector, depending on the type of violation it is. And there is something within the system that tickles -- for lack of a better term -- a reinspection date 52 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 once the original inspection is made.

So the only question that I think we have is: What if a customer didn't call in; how does -- routine inspections or inspections, you know, every few years of a particular property or a property, whether it was trouble, how does that get into a system that generates additional -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: It's -- that's entered by the inspector. I think it's commonly referred to as "a pickup."

Commonly referred to as a...? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: As "a pickup." If the inspector's out on the street and notices something that doesn't look right or sees a violation of a particular property, they can enter the violation information themselves.

But what 53 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 about standard inspections? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Same thing. An inspector enters that too. They'll go out onto the site at a particular location; if there are violations, they would be entered into the Hansen system by the inspector.

But what about things where you -- I mean, don't you, every once in a while, inspect major apartment buildings? don't you, every once in a while, inspect restaurants? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Mm-hmm.

Don't you -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: They're called "program inspections," yes, sir.

Are they in the Hansen system also? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes.

Okay. So now, every single inspection that the City is required to do on some sort of annual or biannual basis -- whether 54 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 it's a restaurant, whether it's an apartment building, whether it's a follow-up -- is now in the Hansen system? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: That's correct.

Okay. That sounds promising. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yeah, I think it is. And we're looking forward to --

How long has that system been up and running? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Final implementation was last year. We're still working internally to identify management reports and tools that we can better utilize to make our jobs easier in exactly this type of situation. So it's been in operation for a year, but we're still tweaking it.

Is there a paper report implemented in addition to 55 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 reporting within Hansen? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: What type of report, sir?

So an inspector's in a field, they notice a violation; do they write something on paper in addition to putting something in Hansen? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: They may jot down a location if they don't have their computer with them at the time and then transfer that information into Hansen. And correct me if I'm wrong, Dominic that's -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Yeah. Councilman, every inspector now is assigned a laptop or notebook. There is really no need for any paperwork for them to turn back into the department. Everything is able to be reviewed by the supervisor, that inspector's supervisor, as it's being written. The only paper that's 56 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 generated from that system is a violation notice or any subsequent paperwork that's required to go to owner or tenant or whoever's the building property manager, but there isn't any paper to be submitted to the City.

Do you have any estimate on how much time or how much more productive inspectors and other people can be now that you've eliminated paper record-keeping? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I don't. I don't have that information with me, no, sir.

Mr. Verdi? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: As far as the information, I mean, I've seen an upswing as far as inspections compared to four or five years ago. As far as a definite number, I couldn't give you that information until we look into how much clerical staff we -- before, the process would be that the 57 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 inspector had to write the violation. I think the bigger issue is the time it takes for notification at this point. To give you a look back historically, a violation was written on paper, then given to a supervisor who had to sign off. Then that supervisor would then have to put it on a clerical person's desk to be input into the system. As we declined in the clerical staff, that backlog got bigger and bigger. Now -- and it would take -- if, for instance, a violation was written today, an owner may not get it for ten days. If that violation is put in the system today by the inspector, tomorrow morning, a paper copy is printed out in the mailroom and it's mailed out by sometime tomorrow afternoon. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: And that's exactly the type of information we're looking to track with the system 58 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 moving forward. When I said "tweaking it," those are the type of reports that I want to see and, I'm sure, the deputy commissioners and our management team want to see because that's going to help us manage and guide our day-to-day process.

Yeah. In terms of -- (Timer bell rings.)

Oh, well, I'll talk to you in a second. Thank you. (Laughter.)

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Good morning.

I'd like to 59 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 shift the focus a little bit briefly. The City of Philadelphia recently did a bond initiative, and we floated approximately $150 million in bonds for demolitions, and the number may be off. And the assumption is that we have depleted those bond dollars, 'cause I know I'm pretty much out of my money in my Council District, so I'm assuming that most of the other Councilmembers are also. And I know we have a debt service payment that we have to pay on the bond. And you have allocated $10 million per year for demolition? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Correct.

And you mentioned earlier in your statement that you were going to do bid packages, I think I heard you say? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: That is correct.

Will the 60 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 bid packages be similar to the old process under the NTI Program? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We want to take the best of both worlds Licenses and Inspections has some very good work processes internally relating to curbside bids. And in the NTI Program, there were economies of scale in doing the bid packages. So what our staff is doing, and it's actually being directed by Eileen Evans, Deputy Commissioner Evans, is trying to get the best of best of worlds to make us the most efficient and productive that we can be with these demolition packages.

Meaning that if the bond dollars had been available, or were available, and you had to utilize -- instead of hiring -- I forget the name of the company that we hired. We hired a company to oversee the process; who was -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Hill 61 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 International.

Hill International. So had we internally been in the position to use a process that included economies of scale and had the ability to implement a somewhat, quote/unquote, curbside process to expedite the demolitions, done that internally, we wouldn't have had to have hired Hill International. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I can't say that, sir. I don't know the answer to that question. And I wouldn't know.

I always wondered why we did that if we had internal systems. And I know you're relatively new, so that's why you -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yeah, that's --

It's fortunate for you that you can't answer that question. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Right. I can't -- 62 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

So you can deny any culpability. (Laughter.)

You also referenced that you had 198, I think you said, properties to be demolished? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Over five Council Districts, yeah.

Why do you think it's only 198. Is that -- that's what's on your list or -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: That's what was left on the NTI, five active demolition bid packages, and it was about 198 properties.

Does that mean that that's all you intend on doing? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Oh, no, that's -- no. 22 Eileen, do you want to explain that.

Explain that to me. 63 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Good morning. Deputy Commissioner Evans.

Good morning. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: The 198 properties refer to what's left in the existing NTI bid packages. That doesn't speak at all to what we intend to do going forward, just what's currently existing in the NTI bid packages as NTI phases out.

And that will be done under utilizing NTI bonds or using General Fund -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: NTI bonds.

NTI bonds. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Yes. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: And then all those NTI bonds will be depleted. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Yes.

Okay. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Just for a point of clarification, sir, we've, 64 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 with the General Fund dollars, we've done about 224 demolitions to date, and we think we can do about 156 more by the end of the fiscal year.

Wait a minute. Say that again. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Out of the General Fund money to date, we have demolished 224 properties by curbside, not counting NTI bond money or NTI demolitions.

Right. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: And the projection is that by the end of the fiscal year, we will demolish another 156 by curbside.

And then we will be relegated to $10 million in demolition. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: That's correct.

How does that compare to prior years prior to the NTI Program in terms of available 65 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 revenue for demolition; is that low, high, or about the same? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I'd have to go back and get that information. I don't have that information, sir. Eileen, do you remember? DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: No, I don't. I'm going to wait for the Commissioner to go back and get that information.

That's okay.

Excuse me, please. The Chair recognizes Councilman Green for a point of information.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to follow up on Councilman Clarke's question, for the record, can you tell us the difference between the cost of L&I, the traditional cost of L&I demolishing a property versus the cost of the 66 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 per-property, the average cost of demolishing it under the NTI bid package process? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We'd have to go back and get that for you, sir. I don't have that information with me today.

I believe it's $9,000 for L&I and $20,000 under the NTI bid package process. So you may want to re-look at whether or not we can do twice as many homes by taking -- by, you know, perhaps going back to the old systems. I don't know if that's where Councilman Clarke was going with his question about, you know, efficient -- about how many are done, but if you could report that number back to the Chair, I'd appreciate it. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We sure will.

Thank you, Madam Chair. 67 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

All right. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, Madam President. I actually wasn't going there, but just to expound on that particular reference -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- we asked that question earlier on about the process 'cause we noticed the increase in demolition costs in NTI years versus prior years under these traditional systems. And we were told that the treatment level on demolitions under NTI was different than the treatment level under the traditional L&I demolitions, where L&I would essentially go out. There was a lower-cost stucco process, there was no treatment to the ground that remained, and I'm assuming that there was some level of costs associated with the administrative fees from Hill 68 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 International. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Right. I --

And my question to that is, since Councilman Green brought it up, as we move forward under the process in the next fiscal year, what level of treatment on demolitions will we have moving forward? (Timer bell rings.)

'Cause under the old NTI demolition, we used to have, like I said, a higher level of sidewalk, stucco, it was the greening and the fencing, and it at least made it -- on an interim basis, it made the lot look somewhat decent until we could figure out what to do with it on a long-term basis. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Correct me if I'm wrong, Eileen, but we're going to be providing the same level of treatment with the grading of the lot 69 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 after the demolition and the stucco on the side walls, but we will not be doing fencing. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: No, that's correct. Councilman Clarke, your assessment is correct. The answer that we have given was that there was a difference in the quality of the demolitions between NTI and traditional L&I. There were some discussion that we should bring them both up to the same standard, which accounts, to some degree, for the increase in cost, but also explains the difference in the cost in the past. We are going to do stucco of the same quality, greening and seeding. And as Commissioner has indicated, it will not include fences.

And participation goals were extremely high in the last -- 70 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Yes, exactly.

That's all going to be a part of the new process? DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Yes. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Absolutely.

Okay. I tried to sneak that in. Sorry, Madam President. (Laughter.)

I think you just said fencing would not be included? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: No, fencing is not included on General Fund demolitions moving forward; it is included on NTI. And if I misspoke, I apologize for that.

Okay. The Chair recognizes -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I think I said "soup to nuts," ma'am, and maybe I -- I'm sorry if -- 71 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

That's okay. The Chair recognizes Councilman Jones.

Thank you, Madam President. On the minority participation, it says you spent, I believe, $8 million last fiscal year; is that right? And what was your participating -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes. That's the figures we have, $8,029,420, correct.

And how much went to MBE and WBE/DBE firms? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I don't have that breakdown in front of me, but we will provide that information. I have it as a percentage but I don't have it as a dollar number.

Well, what's the percentage roughly? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: 72 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 African-American was 15.48 percent. Asian was 12.7 percent. Indian was 1.77 percent. Women were 9.94 percent. And there was another approximate percent in two or more 9 categories. 10

And did that -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: But I can get you -- I'm sorry.

It says you contracted with 32 non-governmental agencies; what does that mean? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: That's 32 private entities.

So these are the contracts in question. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Mm-hmm, correct.

Okay. Let me shift questioning to commercial corridors. What types of inspections 73 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 do you do along inner-city commercial corridors to the businesses that are there? And what I'm specifically talking about is internal but also signage, unified signage; are you on top of that? What type of inspections do you conduct? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: There's several types of inspections. There's the business compliance unit to make sure the folks have their business- privilege licenses, that everything is in order within the business, and they're up to date with whatever license, depending on the type of business that is required. As far as external signage is concerned, there's also inspections on that. If there are signs that are out there on the commercial corridors and they shouldn't be there, they're not permitted, they're there illegally, they don't have the zoning for them, we will write a violation. 74 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

So we are on the corridors within the 4th Councilmatic District in compliance with the signage? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Councilman, unfortunately, it changes daily. Our inspectors go out today and get those -- some of those businesses in compliance, and then tomorrow, they seem to add signs all over the building. Our inspectors have been in all of those corridors, and we have worked together with some of the community groups in that district. And we do inspect yearly those businesses. The problem with those businesses is, a lot of them will get extra income from cigarette companies or whatever to put these signs up. When we get complaints, it's -- we do do a programmatic inspection throughout the business corridors 75 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 every year, but we also respond to complaints when they're sent to our office in reference to excessive signage.

My issue -- and I led you to this point -- is that there are several issues. One, there are good businesses. And then there are businesses that need some incentive to be good. And so, in cases like that, I'm going to look to a cooperation with L&I so that the community deserves a good, unified, well-kept shopping district. So when businesses aren't good neighbors, whether they put their trash out, short-dump, whether they have illegal signage, whether they sell drug paraphernalia, we want to keep them as good neighbors. So we want to work with you. As we get complaints in our office, we want to refer them to you. When businesses don't close when they are 76 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 supposed to and are attractions to elements that aren't altogether law-abiding, we want to work with you to help those businesses become better neighbors, if you would. I believe that L&I can play an important developmental role in inner-cities to keep the standards high. We deserve a healthy shopping environment, and we believe that you are strategic partners in that and want to utilize you fully. We're trying to hold -- we're getting ready to put $1.2 million worth of site improvements to Lansdowne Avenue, for example. It doesn't matter if we do trees, sidewalks, curbs if the existing businesses don't understand because they are absentee landlords reaping investments as they sit on the beach in Florida, that we are serious about upgrading the shopping experience for people in that corridor. 77 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 So we're going to need you to kind of help us to make them better citizens and good neighbors. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Councilman, many of things that you just said fit nicely with the Mayor's Strategic Plan, and we are a big part of that, and we look forward to working with you.

Well, I'll hold you to it. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.

Thank you, Madam President. Just to follow up quickly on the other questions I had when I ran out of time, Deputy Commissioner Verdi, you had -- we were talking about the problems with enforcement and particularly in Municipal Court, 78 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 has there been some conversations with some of the officials at Municipal Court? Is there a way to sort of speed the process up, address those a little bit better? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: We've spoken to some of the judges, and we have an enforcement person that's working very closely with them. I don't want to put the full blame again, like I said, on them totally.

No, I understand. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: It's also an issue with actual servicing of the paperwork.

Mm-hmm. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: In some cases, they -- if we can't find an owner to serve with a subpoena, that also could be a delay.

Mm-hmm. And you talked about some cases go to 79 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 Common Pleas Court, and I know over the years I've tried to push some of those cases, 'cause the court can actually order you or instruct you to do something, you know. What is roughly the percentage of cases that would wind up in Equity Court? And what's kind of the rough, defining line there, you know, to get it to Equity Court. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: It's based on the severity of the situation. As far as percentage, I can get -- we can get you a percentage of our cases that go to Common Pleas Court.

Okay. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: But it's relatively -- it's an issue whether or not it imposes immediate life-safety issues.

Talking about that and about the heat complaints that I referenced before, in order to actually go in and fix the 80 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 heater and bill the owner, do you have to get a court order -- I guess you have to get some kind of court order to do that, or do you have the ability to just go in and do it or -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: We have the ability in some cases to go in and just do it.

Okay. And as -- do you do that a lot? I mean, if it's -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: I wouldn't say a lot.

Mm-hmm, okay. 'Cause I'm just thinking -- I guess -- is it accurate to say that a lot of times, it's either the same properties or the same landlords that are delinquent in this kind of thing or guilty in this kind of thing? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: It's just -- it's just that -- it's -- I'm not saying it's the same type -- it's the same types of landlords. 81 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

Mm-hmm. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Land lords as, Councilman Jones mentioned, who are not good neighbors --

Right. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Where somebody wants to live on a beach in Florida and have someone live in their apartment here.

Mm-hmm. And on that line, is there -- do you have a mechanism for that kind of landlord; if he or she applies for another property, you know, for a license or whatever, can you hold up those licenses, saying, you know, You've screwed up six other properties and we're not letting you screw up three or four more. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Yes. There's a process that we have. We're able to flag licenses and flag owners.

Okay. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: And 82 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 we do have, in fact -- and in some cases, when we have -- our inspectors notice a pattern of a certain landlord, we'll actually get all of the properties of that landlord together in one package and take that type of package into Equity Court.

Okay, good. That's kind of what I was going to say, 'cause, you know, sometimes the person can be really a bad neighbor but then they get other properties and it just makes 'em worse neighbors. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: One of the difficult situations is, a lot of the tenants may know it's the same person. We, in fact, might get it as "that address, LLC."

A different name. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: And then another address is a different LLC. So it's kind of hard for us in some in cases to physically track the 83 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 person that's behind the corporations.

Mm-mm. And I think, since we're complaining here, let me give you some -- I think what everybody admits is good news, it seems like the line down there in the MSB has really gotten a lot better as far as getting licenses and -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Thank you. Well, thank you. I hear that --

Thank you. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: That's on behalf of the staff.

Right. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I mean, Deputy Commissioner Verdi and Evans and the folks at L&I have been tremendous over the last couple of months and are really trying to get that done.

I've heard that from a lot of people. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yeah. And the credit goes to them. 84 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

And I know I -- and that's good because there were those individuals who just got frustrated and actually wanted to do the right thing and didn't do it because they just didn't want to wait that long. Now at least they don't have that excuse. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: There's no excuse anymore.

Right. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: And we want everyone to do the right thing, and we want to make it as painless as possible for them.

And along that line, Madam President, for the record, certainly over the years, Deputy Commissioners Verdi and Evans in their various positions have been very helpful, and I appreciate that. So I know you guys try to do the best you can sometimes, but it's -- the system is the problem, but 85 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 we appreciate all of your help. Thank you. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Thank you. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Thank you.

Thank you, Madam President.

You're welcome. I understand the budget director would like to come to the witness table to explain something that was addressed earlier. (Witness comes forward.)

Good morning.

Good morning, Madam President. Steve Agostini, Budget Director. Good morning, members. I understand and I apologize I wasn't here earlier. I had a personal matter I was trying to take care of. 86 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 With respect to the issues that have been raised today but in other days, the issues with respect to the budget targets that were implemented by the prior administration and that we have been working with as we've put together the for the budget for '09 as well as the Five-Year Plan, with respect to the issues of the number of vacancies that have been clearly identified for a number of departments, including L&I, where services are very critical and those vacancies have not helped that situation, the Administration understands what your concerns and frustrations are. We're trying to get our hands around that. I would just ask you to be patient. Today, I think, marks the beginning -- or the end of the third month for us. For myself, I'm trying to get a handle on what all of that means and what the impacts are. 87 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 As I've said to you and committed to this body and to you, Madam President, we're planning to get our hands around those vacancies, we're planning to get our hands around the target budgets and in an attempt to be sure that the services that you expect and that citizens expect are, indeed, delivered. I would just ask you to give us a little time, be patient with us as we try to work through what has been issues that have taken some time to get to this point, and it's going to take us a little time to get our hands around and try to resolve. We understand your frustrations; we've heard them loud and clear and we're working through them and expect that you will point those out and keep us to task on that, and I would appreciate that as well. But if you would give us a little patience and -- and we're 88 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 trying to get our hands around it.

Thank you. We appreciate that. Okay. Councilman Green.

Thank you, Madam Chair. To follow up once again on the line of questioning from Councilman Greenlee, I don't understand why you can't serve process to people, and maybe we can go through that a little bit, because every LLC, every partnership, every corporation, every entity formed in the State of Pennsylvania is required to have an agent for service of process listed with the Department of State. If they don't, then the State will go after them and find out who they are at the State's expense, because every person, every LLC -- so you don't have to find the person behind the owner; you just go to the Department of State, you look up who 89 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 their agent for service to process is, and you send the process there via certified mail, and you're done. They have notice, they don't show up, the court grants the relief you want, you go in and do it, it's a lien against the property, it's over. I don't understand with a extraordinary efforts people are taking to contact people behind the LLC. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Councilman, I guess to answer your question, first of all, we don't serve our own writs; it's done by the court system. That's number one. Number two is, when I mentioned LLCs, I'm mentioning different properties. The Councilman asked, Could we track an owner? Now, LLCs, a lot of owners hide will behind --

I'm not -- I understand that point. 90 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Okay.

I'm not asking about that point. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Okay. The third thing is, we want the owner to show up; we try our best to get that owner to show up. We don't want the court to give us, in some cases, relief by a fine, 'cause what happens with that relief by a fine, if the owner is served and the court -- and the person does not show up in court, the judge is going to normally give him a $5,000 fine. It doesn't solve the violation issue.

But why can't -- but if there's a violation and the owner doesn't show up, why isn't part of the relief you're seeking the ability to go in and remediate at the owner's expense, putting a lien against the property? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: The 91 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 fine -- as far as the $5,000 fine that sits there, because that $5,000 fine does not go into the General Fund, we don't have the funds to go in and relieve every violation on every property.

So what you're saying is -- do you seek the relief of being -- when someone doesn't show up, do you then take it upon yourself to go remediate and put a lien against the property? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: The judge -- there is a lien put against the property by a court fine.

Do you go in and remediate? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: In some cases, we may remediate.

Why not in every case, because of a lack of funds; is that what you're -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: More or less, yes. 92 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

How much would -- here -- here -- if you get back, it's this big circle, right? You don't contact the individual owner, he doesn't show up, there's a lien put on the property, but you don't actually go in and do the work, so the situation continues to spiral downward for the people who live in that property. You can put more fines on them, but that just is a lien against the property. Nobody is taking care of the problem because you didn't go in and remediate the problem and put a lien against the property, and then -- and then get paid back based on (indiscernible) or we didn't take the property once there's a lien of over $850 and sharing it at sheriff's sale to let someone responsible come in and buy it and, you know, pay off the lien and do the (indiscernible). So what I'm suggesting is, the reason that L&I has the problem it has 93 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 is because it doesn't go in and remediate the problem. We don't take the properties from these absentee landlords and we don't put them up for sale to someone who may be more responsible as a new landlord. It's a very simple problem to solve, and that is, just seek the relief to give you an order that allows you to go in and remediate whatever the cost to that is, apply it to the property, and then let's sell the property if they don't show up the next time they come into court. It's not difficult. The individual owner is an entity, not a person, and we can get whatever relief we want or service of process we want against that entity just by going to their agent for service to process that they list under the Department of State records. It's simple. I don't -- I guess I don't understand why our process 94 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 doesn't solve this problem. Does anyone have any comment on that? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We will look at the entire process and do a pleat review with the Law Department to see how we can make it better.

Okay. Well, I'm giving you a suggestion as to how to make it better. And if you need additional funds in your budget that allow you to go in to remediate where these situations occur, let us know how much that is, because that would solve the problem. If landlords knew if they didn't show up or their agent of service of process got a notice, that you would go in, fix it, charge 'em, and then if they don't show up next time, you'd sell their property out from under them, if knew that, they'd be there. But because there's no real enforcement, they know they can hide. 95 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 I've heard you testify -- or L&I testify before that you can't find them, and that's a problem. L&I has created that problem by making that our process. That's all I suggest to you. So let's change the process so we can protect people who are -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Thank you for the suggestion, and we will look at the process.

Thank you very much. (Applause.)

I guess I'm almost out of time, Madam President? I have additional questions. Thank you.

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Good morning. I'm going to piggyback on Councilman Green's questions regarding 96 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 remediating properties of absentee landlords. And I'm sure in all Council Districts, we have these problems with these absentee landlords who just come in, particularly over the last couple of years, and purchase lots of houses, lots of lots, form their LLCs, and disappear. We have a house in our district that has been vacant for more than two years. People from the community clean it; I've even had relatives go out just as a favor to me to clean it. And the owners actually live in Saudi, Arabia, so they could care less about this particular property. And I have a whole disk of pictures of lots that speculators have purchased, and that's it. Now, if I call 'em and if they answer the phone, I'll tell them to clean, and they will go out and clean, but why should I have to call them? I 97 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 shouldn't have to monitor this. So I was actually thinking that maybe whomever cleans the lot should send them a bill or just keep a record of them cleaning and have a bill. Is there a estimated -- I'm sure you work along with the CLIP Program. Is there a list of estimated costs for cleaning a lot, for remediating a house, for any of that? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: It --

I mean, what would be the average cost for that? I know it depends on the size, but -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yeah, I don't have that information, ma'am, but to your point on the cleaning of vacant lots, the Vacant Lot Program, under the direction of the Managing Director's Office, does go out and clean lots, and they are subsequently billed, the owner of record, for that cleaning, including 98 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 administrative costs.

So once the person gets the bill, who tracks whether they pay it? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Once it's billed, it goes to the Department of Revenue, who is then responsible for liening the property. The Department of Licenses and Inspections does not track nor collect those dollars.

I'm sure you don't, but I just wanted to know who did that, because I'm wondering if any of these people have ever paid these fines. I mean, this is -- we have lots, we have too many lots that are just left and they're not cleaned. I mean, people don't care. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I know.

And out in the neighborhoods, people care about that. I mean, I care when I ride by the same building or same lot week 99 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 after week, you call it and it gets cleaned, then it grows again. I mean, it just has to be some kind of end. And I support the question that Councilman Green asked: Why can't we just get these people in court and put these properties up for sheriff's sale? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I agree.

And maybe someone will buy it that will take care of it because it's becomes just a continuing, continuing headache. So I would like to see if you guys can work on coming up with a quicker method. It just seems like it takes too long to get people into Equity Court. It just takes too long. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We agree and we will look at the process.

All right. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

100 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, Madam President. I wanted to do a follow-up on the earlier questioning. I snuck in a question at the end about participation and you said yes. Let me elaborate a little more. Under the NTI Program, there was an aggressive, proactive program that -- I think it was called "The Emergent Contractor's Program" that actually went out and identified minority contractors particularly for demolition, and we got substantial numbers and actually created a number of businesses in the demolition field. Moving ahead, now that NTI is being phased out as it relates to funding, what's the process that's going to be utilized to ensure that we continue those aggressive numbers on 101 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 participation of demolition? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We are going to closely work with the Administration and MBEC and the Procurement Department and --

No, you are the Administration. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Pardon me?

You said you're going to work with -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I'm sorry. I meant the Mayor's Office.

You are the Administration. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes. The Mayor's Office, the Managing Director's Office, Procurement, MBEC, and the community to get as many minority contractors on board as we can.

What I'm asking you is that we had a very detailed, comprehensive program in place to deal with minority 102 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 participation on this issue. And I'm -- I would like to think there's a little more beyond just, you know, the tradition "We're going to sit down and everybody work together." COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Mm-hmm.

Is that program, as structured, going to be eliminated or be changed? will it be continued? Or have you all not given any thought to that? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We haven't gotten to that point yet but we will.

Okay. Eileen, do you want to give a little more -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Yeah. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Eileen, do you want to comment? DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Councilman, we have not eliminated the ranges or the percentages that are 103 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 required for minority participation. The change in the program from NTI to L&I is simply that the bid packages will be smaller. As opposed to 50, 60, 100 properties, we're looking at to 8 max, but the ranges are still in place 9 that were in place through Procurement 10 and MBEC, so haven't changed that 11 aspect is at all. 12

And those 13 ranges were what? 14 DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: I 15 don't know the ranges; I'd have to look 16 that up. But whatever they are, we are 17 not changing those ranges. 18 As you said, we did work 19 closely, and NTI worked closely with 20 MBEC, to establish those, and with 21 Procurement, and we so have no intent 22 of changing the minority 23 participation. 24 We have -- the Emerging 25 Contractors Program came through the 104 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 African-American Chamber of Commerce, and they're actually reaching out to be a part of NTI. We do have contacts with the Asian-American Chamber of Commerce we still maintain. Those who went through the Emerging Contractors Program are now active participants in the demolition program. And so the graduates are now active participants as prime contractors and not as subs. And so we can see that there's been some progress through that program.

And we will continue that process. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Yes.

It may have a different name but it will be the same. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Yes, exactly. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: And the goal is to continue that process and 105 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 try to make it even better if we can.

Okay. And in terms of being able to track the participation, how is that going to be done? Because if the NTI process is phasing out, how will we know that those goals are being reached? DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: We know which contractors are MBEC- and WBEC-certified, and we also know that labor standards has particular percentages of participation in place. And so the entire process involves a review by Procurement, a review by MBEC to ensure that those percentages are met.

So we should depend on MBEC -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Yes.

-- is what you're saying? DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Mm-hmm.

With the 106 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 assumption that MBEC is going to be around? DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: It's a part of the process.

Okay. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Oh - - well, it's a part of the process. If MBEC isn't around in its present form, the requirements of MBEC will be absorbed by Procurement.

Okay. An earlier question about the dollar- amount for demolition prior to NTI, and now I'm being told it was approximately $20 million 'cause that set the threshold for the debt service on the NTI bond, and we're now talking about half of that. And I recall, prior to that, there was always concerns about demolition. And, unfortunately, the NTI did not get to as many properties that we had earlier anticipated, so there are still a significant number of 107 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 vacant properties in the City of Philadelphia. And I'm glad to hear that you're talking about bid packages, 'cause we hope that that will deal with economies of scale and somehow reduce the price. My concern is that with $10 million, utilizing a process of bid packaging and the fact that the NTI significantly supported not only the traditional safety issues but also supported development initiatives 'cause we're in areas where we're going to clear space for development, we utilize NTI bonds. How do we think that the $10 million, given the fact that we're talking about 26, $25,000 per building, will reasonably make an impact on those issues? DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: The $10 million is earmarked for demolition demolitions. L&I is not going to be 108 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 involved in the development aspect of --

No, I understand that. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Okay, all right.

But when you develop a track of land, you have to clear the site. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Mm-hmm.

And what we've been doing is using demolition dollars to clear the site -- (Timing bell rings.) DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Mm-hmm.

So the question is, you know, if you reduced it by half of what it was prior to -- and I understand it was $30 million under NTI and prior to that it was 20. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Mm-hmm. 109 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

-- and now we're talking about 10, how are we going to realistically make an impact dealing with both life-safety issues and possible development issues? And if we're not going to use it for development issues, I need to know that 'cause we have to look at other pots of money to support that. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Well, we are anticipating that out of the 10 million that we'll be able to demolish 400 properties, just using the bid packages. Whatever the other properties that need to be immediately addressed will be addressed by curbsides. And so, again, out of the 10 million, our expectations is that 400 properties will be able to be demolished.

And curbsides will come out of -- I'm sorry. Curbsides will come out of what 110 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 budget? DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: It's out the of the same pot of money, actually.

You sound like you're double-counting. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: No. 9 With 400 --

You said that 400 will be done -- (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)

Four hundred will be done out the 10 million, and then curbsides will be done -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Four hundred is total, including curbsides --

Including the curbsides -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: All of this is coming out of the 10 million. 111 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

Okay. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: That's correct.

Okay. Thank you, Madam President.

The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to talk about the Department of L&I's proaction when it comes to seeing the things that we as Councilmembers see and the people that all of us represent. How many employees do you have in L&I? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We're budgeted for 374.

Okay. When you're at that number, that tells me that you've got 374 pair of eyes that know more about -- even the clerical people, I think, eventually know what L&I's responsibility is. 112 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 Do you still, in the spring, have inspectors work the weekends? What is the responsibility of an employee of L&I. If you see that lot that is dirty -- what amazes me, when I call L&I on occasion, something that's existed for a long, long time, I'm told, "We have nothing on this. This is, like, the first time that we've ever heard about this problem." I would hope -- and I'm sure you would, too -- that your organization is very proactive and out there looking for the things that the people that we work for are complaining about. The house -- I mean, I just can't imagine driving through a community and still seeing a home that is not boarded up, but there are probably hundreds that have not been. It takes a Councilperson to call L&I to get a house that is open 113 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 closed? It shouldn't be that way. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: And it isn't, sir. We have clean-and-seal crews out on the street every day cleaning and sealing properties throughout the City. In fact, I think year, we're targeted to do about a thousand, and we'll probably do another thousand next fiscal year. So we do work proactively internally based on inspections by our inspectors. And if it's an open property that needs to be cleaned and sealed, it's referred to the clean-and-seal unit, and that action is taken.

I used that just as an example of many situations that L&I's responsible for. Are you behind on clean-and-seals? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes. We believe we are behind on clean-and- seals. And that's a part of the package that I've asked the managers to 114 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 put together to find out exactly what we're behind on and by how much. Early indications are, with the hiring, the nine clean-and-seal abatement workers scheduled for the first week in May, that any backlogs which we have will be cleaned up within a matter of less than six months.

Are you anticipating -- you said next year another thousand. Are you expecting that there are properties in the pipeline that will become abandoned? Where did you come up with the thousand next year if you're not behind? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: That's basically what we're budgeted for and based on the productivity of a clean- and-seal crew on the daily basis. So in other words, we have a budget, we know about how many clean-and-seals we can do per day. And that's our goal, about a thousand. 115 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

So you will be able to tell us -- see, I'm a little confused on -- where is the thousand from next year; are they already out there or are they becoming abandoned as we sit here? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Well, where we want to be is, it's sort of like the inventory on the shelf. I want our folks to tell me what our beginning inventory is, and I think this will answer your question. Do we have -- and I'm just though this number out there -- 5,000 open properties right now. During the year through our inspection process, how many do we add to that, okay? And how many do we end up at the end of the year based on what we can do? And that's where we need to be, and that's where we will be.

Do you -- if you come back at us and find out that 116 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 -- and I'll let my colleague speak on his question directly 'cause I'm sure he'll get it out better than I will. If you determine that you've got a issue here with several hundred backed up into the pipeline, what can you do as a manager? Can you hire contractors? can you put more people on? I mean, I can't imagine just seven people -- you have to get trucks for them, equipment. Is there trucks parked that this seven people are not able to get out of the garage? Or how do you deal with a backlog if, in fact, you have one? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Well, as part of the Mayor's Strategic Plan, we're going to work smarter, better, and faster. So we're going to take a good look at those numbers, we're going to take a good look at our productivity levels and see where we are at the end of the year. 117 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 I don't know if we're going to need more money in the budget. I don't know if, by working smarter, better and faster, that we can really eat into that backlog and we won't need more money in the budget. It's -- but at the end, we're going to have to take a look at those numbers and make those decisions.

I come through -- and no disrespect to Streets or L&I, and I know the clock's going to sound momentarily, but I took a little shortcut coming off of Allegheny Avenue to get up to Germantown Avenue, and there were -- I could not imagine that I was in a major city; it was so, so bad. I mean lots just strewn with debris and other -- and I know the District Council office has been trying to get it cleaned up. (Timer bell rings.)

So in my opinion, just looking at some of the 118 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 places that I go, somebody else should have seen that because, I understand from the neighbors, it's been like that for months. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: If you pass that information -- I talk to Josh Cohen from your staff; quite often he calls me. If you have him provide those addresses, I will be glad to pass that on to Tom Conway in the Vacant Lot Program.

Okay, good. Thank you, Madam Chair. And can -- Councilman Green had a quick question on that.

He'll be next.

Okay, thanks.

I just have one question that I would like to ask before recognizing Councilman Green. Do we have a backlog for the 119 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 demolition of eminently dangerous properties? DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: No, no, we don't. We defined "eminently dangerous" such that if we cited a property as eminently dangerous, our responsibility is to immediately demolish it, and so we are current with all ID properties.

How about dangerous properties? I know we label them either "dangerous" or "eminently dangerous." DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: We only use the two categories of eminently dangerous or unsafe.

All right. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: So there are a number of unsafe properties but those properties are not in threat of collapse or eminent danger.

Thank you very much. 120 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 The Chair recognizes Councilman Green.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to spend a second talking about online applications. I think the PowerPoint presentation on , there was a report issued in October of 2001 by the Managing Director's Office, L&I, and the Commerce Department that said that 71 percent of permits and 82 percent of licenses issued by L&I were routine, and as a result, the application approval process for them could be automated. Of the 71 and 82 percent identified in the October 2001 report, what percentage have online applications? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Sir, I have not seen that report, but I will get that information for you.

If you could 121 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 provide that to the Chair. What percentage of your applications are actually made online for permits and licenses? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I don't have that information in front of me. I can tell you, the most recent -- I believe it was the housing inspection licenses that we made available online in January, I believe it was percent 12 as of this date were filed online, 13 which is encouraging. 14

Um -- 15 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Bridget, 16 did you have something to add to that? 17

I don't know the exact percentage of our licenses and permits that we do have online, but we do, as the Commissioner stated, the housing renewal license just went on. You can get a fast-form building permit online, which is your building permits that don't need plans. You can also get your real 122 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 estate certs on line, which has been a big one for us. Most people just -- that requires a simple zoning check and then, automatically, someone's sent back their real estate cert.

Right. If you could provide the Chair with a chart showing the comparison of the permits and licenses that were recommended to go online in 2001 compared to which are actually on line -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Mm-hmm.

-- and then also tell us the total percentage of permits and licenses that are applied for online. And, also, do you know, is there any additional cost to the customer for applying online versus -- or paying a fee online versus coming in and paying it? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: In some cases, there are, sir, depending on the 123 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 circumstance, but our goal, I think, is to reduce those costs because, as we get more people to apply and get their permits and licenses online, at some point down the road, I would think that our costs would be reduced and we can pass that onto the customer.

Well, if 10 percent of just this one item, housing 11 approvals, are on line, that's 17 12 percent fewer pieces of paper that are 13 coming in just on that exact process at 14 L&I. 15 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Exactly, 16 exactly. 17

And if you haven't captured savings from that, obviously, you should be redesigning your work-flow processes to do so. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: And we will. Sir, could I have the name of that report? I'm sorry. You mentioned a report back, I think it 124 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 was, seven or eight years ago?

It's an October 2001 report prepared in joint effort by the MDO's office, L&I, and the Commerce Department. I don't have the exact name of the report. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Okay.

My -- I'd be happy to have my staff forward it to you if you would like. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: That would be great. I would appreciate that.

Okay. The other thing I wanted to talk about was, it's my understanding that there are available commercially-permitting processes that would allow people to submit plans electronically, allow those plans to be automatically sent to the Water Department, the Streets Department, and other places so that they don't have to fill out 14 different applications, et cetera. 125 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 Can you discuss where the Department is on that? And I think in October 2007, there was testimony that you were looking at such changes in your processes in coordination with Water, Streets, and the other people who have to review the same plans. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: That's correct, sir. And, as a matter of fact, staff have identified a couple of packages that are out there currently being used in other cities. We are going to be meeting with Streets, Planning, and the Water Department -- I think the meeting is tomorrow -- to discuss what our needs would be internally to implement such a process. I mean, I think that's a big win for the development community and it's a big win for the City departments if we can get to the point where we're submitting electronic plan reviews and approving them online so 126 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 that not only we see what's going on, but our customers see what going on at the same time. We are in very preliminary discussions about this process and about these programs that are out there. But, as I said, we are going to meet for the first time tomorrow to see what that might look like for the City.

Do you have an estimate of what the efficiencies and/or the savings are? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: No, not at this time, sir. It's too early in the game.

Would you please provide those to the Chair when you get them? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Absolutely. (Timer bell rings.)

Thank you. (Councilwoman Tasco assumes 127 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 position as Committee Chair.)

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Sanchez.

Thank you. Thank you, folks. Along the lines -- as I was listening to the testimony earlier from the office, President Verna and you folks were talking about the public relations campaign, and I wanted to go on record the importance of making sure that any education campaign that we have be done in several different languages, which is one of the challenges that we face. And I say that, understanding that I have a district with probably one of the highest noncompliance issues as it relates to both businesses and housing. But, also, as I work with folks, you know, their inability to navigate how to come to compliance because of sometimes our lack of 128 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 coordination. So I want to make sure that I go on the record saying that. I also notice that in your contracting, on your minority contracting, there were no Hispanic firms. Is there a reason? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I cannot speak for the last year as to why there were no firms, but I can promise you that we will do everything in our power to make sure for the coming fiscal year that there will be.

Okay. Going back to some of the discussions around NTI and CLIP, one of the things that I hear -- and I get inconsistent messaging around it -- is, all of the remediation work that we do doesn't necessarily get liened, and it didn't under NTI, some of the work that we're doing. Does every service that we provide, as it relates to remediation, 129 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 being liened, and at what rate? And if you could share that with Chair, I'd be very much interested. I have about 300 vacant properties, lots that we have as a result of our work through NTI, so I want to know, moving forward, that they are in a pipeline for potential acquisition. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Just one point of clarification, Councilwoman: At what rate? What do you mean by that?

If we provide a clean-and-seal on a particular lot, how are we liening those properties. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Oh.

What's the rate that we're charging? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Oh, I understand, okay.

Those types of things. That would be 130 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 important for me to see. Years ago, probably '93, '94, there was a District Services Office that on American Street, and that was very helpful in helping us direct people there for some basic questions, especially when folks were doing some minor work, remods in the house that didn't require major plans. What types of services are we offering in the six different locations where we have staffing and sites like the Northeast City Hall at sixth and Lehigh as it relates to L&I? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Presently, we are not in the Northeast City Hall. We are looking internally to expand, and I don't know at what rate or when yet some of the services we offer. I believe Eileen Evans' group is starting in May or June, a Saturday service, where all of the district operations will offer appointments to 131 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 those that want to do minor home repairs and want to get permits for that and would need advice on what the L&I process is. And we're going to be rolling that out in a public relations campaign, once all the T's are dotted and the I's are crossed. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER ELFREY: As far as the other services, could you just repeat your question again?

What are we doing at Sixth and Lehigh? I know a there's a staff person there; what's the function of that staff person there from L&I? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Go ahead, Eileen. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: That particular office is a fully-staffed district office, and so clerical there are several building inspectors there, there's clerical support staff, and 132 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 their function is to address within defined boundaries all of the building- and construction-related complaints that are in that particular service area.

So I can go over there and get information? DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Yes.

That's not the feedback that I've gotten. I don't know if Councilman Clarke -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Well, it is a fully-staffed -- I mean, if they're not providing service, I would love to know that.

I would like to know what services we're supposed to be providing over there. DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Okay.

That would be helpful. And when you say "fully staffed," what does that mean? Does that mean that anybody can go in 133 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 there and pretty much get answers to some of the basic quality-of-life questions that we're talking about? DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: No. 6 Those -- the district offices are construction-related district offices, so it's not necessarily -- the staff is aware of clean-and-seal activities, but they don't necessarily deal with quality of life. These are building inspectors, plumbing inspectors, and so we're dealing with construction-related issues in the local district offices.

So you're reviewing plans; no permits get issued out of there? DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Fast- form building permits that do not require plans can be issued from the district offices.

I was not aware of that. Okay. Well, I'd like to get a full scope of services -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: Sure. 134 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

-- that are being offered there, because that's where I was getting to. The district office that we had before, there was some issuance of some of the permits on American and Lehigh, but I -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER EVANS: If I may, as the Commissioner stated, we are reviewing internally whether or not we can actually, and should, expand services in the district offices so that you can receive licenses in the district offices and a different variety of permits in those district offices. Traditionally, it has just been construction-related.

Okay. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I'd like to emphasize we're reviewing that.

Well, it seems to me that we have several different types of offices throughout the City probably strategically located, and as we look at becoming 135 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 more customer-friendly that we would look at all of the staffing. We have six different sites with L&I staff. (Timer bell rings.) COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Absolutely. We need to leverage the resources that we have in the field throughout the City to provide the best service that we can, and that's some of the things that we're looking at.

Thank you. My time is up.

Good morning and thank you. I'm Councilwoman Tasco, and I just -- I -- probably you've gotten this question about inspections, but I want to talk about the large apartment buildings. We have one building in the 9th District called the Linley Towers, and it has a history of inspection violations and issues. And this has been a long, long, long, long, 136 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 long-term problem. And they store trash in the wells. At one point, I thought we tried to close this building down, but they continue to operate. And so what follows a complaint? And when you file your -- what follows your inspection and what follows when there are violations and the violations pile up and pile up? And then they're allowed to continue to remain open. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Councilwoman, to address that issue, we recently inspected that building two weeks ago, all right? The building -- the case itself is in Equity Court. We were prepared to evacuate the entire building based on complaints that we were getting in reference to fire alarm. The problem with the building is, to evacuate a building with a hundred people is somewhat an issue. 137 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 We have been working with the owner. The case has got a continued date in Common Pleas Court, and I'll be happy to give you a full report on it when I get back. I'm not quite sure what the attorneys talked about last week. But we do know that the firearm alarm system is back in working order. Most of the property violations have -- are starting to be complied. We have an inspector that's supposed to go up there this weekend again to look at some issues with the management company, but the property is coming into compliance steadily. Unfortunately, it did take quite some time to get that person again into Equity Court, which we did. And we were prepared again to evacuate the building even though it had a hundred residents.

I think we evacuated a building similar -- it may 138 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 have been the same building -- some years back, and the Department of Human Services helped to evacuate the people and find locations for them. So if that's an issue, maybe we -- have you talk to the Department of Human Services to try and -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Our manager from Housing did talk to Human Services. We also have been coordinating with the Managing Director's Office of Emergency Services if we had to evacuate the building. And, again, the good part of it is, the fire alarm systems and the safety systems are back in working order. Now it's a matter of having the inspectors go through each individual violation with the courts to make sure that the quality-of-life issues are being addressed.

Yeah, but what happens, they go into court, they make these promises, they do a little 139 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 bit of a fix-up, and then they start the next week back to business as usual. That's why there's such a long history. They continue to collect rent and then they let the services, the quality-of-life services decline, and then we -- it's a constant circle. It's going round and round and round all the time. (Applause.) DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: In this case and other cases, we do notice that's what happens when they have a court case. The court case in this matter, we're asking the Law Department to have a request put in where this case stays open. If, in fact, this person does not stay in compliance, it would be immediately -- we could immediately order him back into court. It's not similar to a Municipal Court hearing; this is a Common Pleas hearing. 140 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 We can have that added to the order, so we could have an open order that could stand for two, three, four years if we have to, and it's something I have to discuss with the Law Department today, as a matter of fact in reference to --

Who's -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: -- allowing us to go back there and --

Who in the Law Department is handling this case? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: I'd have to get that information for you.

If you could get that to me -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Sure.

-- and would you get me the court date, please? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Absolutely.

All right. Thank you. 141 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 What is the inspection process -- this is an ongoing problem for us also -- in the commercial districts on trash pickup? The Zoning Board of Adjustment, the business owners are told that they're required to have commercial trash pickup for their businesses; however, they do not have commercial trash pickup. And on Fifth Street, they put their trash out on Sunday. And also in some of the other business districts in my district and, I'm sure, in other districts, trash is put out on Saturday. It sits over Sunday if trash is on Mondays. And they're supposed to have commercial trash pickup. What are you all doing to work with these businesses to let them understand what the requirements for trash pickup are? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Well, one of the issues -- not only -- 142 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 the Zoning Board does, in fact, in some cases -- I shouldn't say in all cases -- require commercial trash pickup, but there are some businesses that are not required to go before the Zoning Board. Now, the issue as far as trash pickup, Commissioner, I think that would have to be addressed by the Streets Department.

Yeah, but if they are in violation -- because the Streets Department will pick the trash up. They pack it in such a way that it's not something -- it doesn't look like a bin requirement, so you have these small boxes all along the sidewalk littering the sidewalk. So the Trash Department, when they come by on Monday, they pick the trash up, but they should have commercial bins, they should have large bins for their trash but they don't. 143 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 This is nothing new; it's been going on for years, ever since I've been there. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Ma'am, if you'd give us those exact locations or I could reach out to your staff --

I would love to. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: -- today or tomorrow where they are, we'll look into that for you.

Well, why -- what I think ought to happen, there has to be a collaboration between L&I -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: And the Streets Department.

-- and the Streets Department. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Absolutely. That's exactly what we --

-- on how you're going to enforce the Code. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes. 144 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

That's what I think has to happen. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: You're right.

Because if the Trash Department picks it up -- because we're going to call if the trash is not picked up, but the businesses don't have a -- they get away with it, so they don't comply. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Right.

The other thing about these commercial trash bins, they're supposed to be enclosed, and there's no enforcement. I don't know how long you've been in the department, so these issue are ongoing. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Three months, ma'am.

I want you to know that this is a problem. Another thing, working with the trash bins -- well, that's your area on the trash bins. They got to 145 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 be required to have those trash bins, so the trash is out -- (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.) COMMISSIONER ELFREY: They should have a licensed Dumpster. Those that are required should have a licensed Dumpster. It should be graffiti-free, by the way, and that's --

But there's no enforcement. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: That's a pet peeve of mine. And it also needs to be closed; it shouldn't be overflowing. And, again, we'll get with the Streets Department.

Well, I know you have some staffing issues, but the enforcement and the -- the inspection and enforcement are the two most important things in the L&I Department because the L&I Department, 146 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 I've always been supportive of you having more staff because you have the greatest impact on the quality of life for people in this city because of the various issues and the areas that you have to cover. So I certainly hope that our mayor will find within his budget to be able to hire more people so that we can take care of some of the issues that my office has been -- I've been here twenty years and these problems are twenty years old. They never get resolved.

Point of information, Madam Chair.

Point of information, Councilman Rizzo.

Commissioner, a few years ago, this Council passed legislation requiring Dumpsters to be licensed, and Mr. Haigler, I believe, was the person that I was speaking with. And we were 147 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 told because of the delay for implementation was that it was going to roll out at the beginning of the year. Would you provide to the Chair a report on where we are with the legislation that this Council passed about leaving Dumpsters in the right-of-way, all of the issues associated with Dumpsters. Some contractors will drop them in Center City in the operating line. So that legislation -- and I've been very patient. L&I was telling me that they needed time to get this all together. So if Mr. Haigler, when the Chair feels it's appropriate, because I've seen no 19 improvement, and we have legislation signed by the Mayor, and we still -- and there's Mr. Haigler, so if you could let him hang closer here for a minute -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yeah. And Mr. Verdi's here -- 148 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

And then when it's my turn again, I would like to get an update on where we are because I don't like wasting my time on this. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Councilman, I think you have -- there's two different issues that the Councilwoman is dealing with trash Dumpsters; your issue is construction Dumpsters.

I'm talking about Dumpsters, Dumpsters that are -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: These are -- the legislation that Mr. Haigler had passed is in reference to construction Dumpsters.

I'm talking about -- it's about all kinds of Dumpsters. I'm talking about Dumpsters, construction Dumpsters that are -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: But that ordinance that -- you just 149 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 referenced the ordinance. The ordinance that you spoke to Mr. Haigler about is in reference to construction Dumpsters. The legislation was passed and signed by the Mayor, and it is being enforced between the Streets Department and our construction people.

Where's the licenses for the Dumpsters? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: The licenses for the Dumpsters come through our office but are approved by the Streets Department.

Okay. We need to get together on this because this is a problem. These Dumpsters are all over the place, and they're supposed to have licenses. I ask for the licenses, they say, "Oh, we're waiting for L&I," so I think if there's confusion here, we really need to get our arms around it. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Just to give you some background as far as 150 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 Dumpsters are concerned, if you see a Dumpster on the sidewalk, the Dumpster on sidewalk has to be approved by the Streets Department as a public Dumpster or -- it's not a private Dumpster. If a Dumpster is on private property, it's considered a private Dumpster, and we have the licenses for both of those. The third type of which you're speaking about is strictly to deal with construction debris at a construction site, and that's what that legislation was for. And we'll get you the information.

Okay. Thank you. And I'll come back and talk to you about that. Thank you for that opportunity, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilman Green. 151 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to say that you guys are where the rubber meets the road, and that's why we all have so many questions. You know, many of the quality-of-life issue, as Councilwoman Tasco was saying, are affected by how effective, efficient, you know, better, smarter, faster your office is. And so I think we're all looking for ways to recommend solutions or possible efficiencies or advantages that you may consider and decide to take advantage of or not. But I just want to say, you know, my office, every dealing we've had with L&I so far has been extremely positive. You have been effective and efficient. And, you know, I want to acknowledge that and thank you for that and don't want you to think that because we're asking questions on the 152 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 negative side that -- or, you know, it may sound like criticism, but you should take it as our way of suggesting perhaps how to be even better. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Thank you, Councilman. I appreciate that. And we're always open to suggestions. We want to think outside the box, and we want to be in a partnership with the citizens of Philadelphia and Council to help us do that. And we welcome --

In particular, your electronic initiatives -- although, I think, for my tastes, we're moving too slowly on something that I applaud you on. You did -- you were one of the first departments to have forms up some time ago in the Street administration, and I think it can bring tremendous savings or perhaps decrease backloads of cases if you -- the more efficient you get 153 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 with that, and I encourage you to continue that activity as quickly as possible. And if there is not money in this year's budget to make those changes if you could provide what you need for the Chair in order to implement a full paperless system to the extent that that's practicable, that's something that I'm looking to support. Thank you very much for your testimony today. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Thank you.

Let me just ask you another question. What is the diversity of the staff of L&I?

Currently, we are at -- we have: About 40 percent of our staff is white. 53 percent black. 5 percent Hispanic. 154 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 percent Asian. And then we have percent are "other." (Laughter.)

That's a category that's established by the Central Personnel Unit. It's THE people that don't actually want to put -- they actually go into the "other" category.

Now, how much Asian, 1 percent?

We have 1 percent Asian.

So what's 1 percent, one person?

About four people, yeah.

Because, you know, the City is very diverse and if you look at the diversity of the City, particularly when you're dealing with the commercial community, and you look at the racial makeup of the 155 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 business owners, it would seem to me that we would try to increase that number because we do have a number of Asian merchants where communication is very important. And if we have people who could really communicate with the merchant to work with them on some of the issues, we might have a better response because, you know, they come to the country, they don't know the -- understand all of the laws, and they feel a little intimidated sometimes in responding. So I think if we could find a more effective way to be more inclusive of that community and then deploy those employees to those areas where you have a diverse community and require that connection, that's very important when you're dealing with people. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Just, Councilwoman, so you understand, 156 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 we do take that into conversation, especially the fact that we do have a language line in our concourse and is available at other offices for someone that doesn't speak or doesn't understand English, and it has quite a different variety of Asian dialects. We also have -- we also, if we need to, have the Department of Human Services, and one of the other issues that when our inspectors are out in the field, we do instruct them, if they have a problem with the language issue, that we do sometimes contact the Police Department, who will send us someone that speaks the dialect or language of the person that we're trying to bring into compliance.

Well, it's much more effective if you have somebody on the staff who can speak the language and not have to call the Police Department. Now, when you're talking to a businessman about trash 157 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 containers and you call the Police Department, in some of the countries they came from, that's very intimidating. So if there's someone on staff who can communicate and educate at the same time about what their requirements are, I think it would be much more effective in terms of getting the results that we would like to have. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I agree with you, Councilwoman, and we'll work with Central Personnel on that.

At one time, we had asked the mayor Ed Rendell at the time to hire more people in the Commerce Department because they had these business action centers. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Mm-hmm, the Mayor's Business Action Center.

And we asked them to make sure that there was a diverse staff so that, whether it's 158 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 Latino or Columbian or whatever, there's that connection 'cause people relate to people they feel comfortable with. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: You're right and we agree.

So that's something I think that would be a good idea. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Thank you.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes -- is Councilman Clarke around? Maybe he'll come back, but for the moment, we will recognize Councilwoman Sanchez.

Thank you. Let's talk a little bit more about CLIP. And as we move forward with the funding not coming through NTI, how is it that we're looking to -- 'cause we've talked about it and I think the Mayor's talked about it, 159 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 we've all talked about it and we've all ran on it, expanding a CLIP-like program in other parts of the City because of its intensive service. So what are we doing next year that's going to be different, better? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: In reference to the CLIP Program, that is run out of the Managing Director's Office.

Okay. But it has L&I staff assigned to it? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes. Yes, it is does.

Okay. So then let me ask you, based on L&I's needs and resources. What would you say we could do differently in moving forward on the program to be able to expand it? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: To expand the CLIP Program?

Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: What we 160 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 would do differently?

Mm-hmm. Given the resources that we're talking about, is expansion possible? because it would require more L&I support. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I don't know the answer to that question yet. We would have to know what the expansion would look like, where it would be, and how many folks. I don't feel comfortable answering that question right now, ma'am.

Okay. As it relates to -- again, I'm going to go back to business-compliance issues in looking at cease-operations, I know for a fact that I have a lot of folks who skirt the permit process for a lot of reasons; some of it is financial, other is lack of understanding of the system. And I want to do my part in ensuring people that if they comply, that we will be supportive, but I have 161 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 encountered situations where we asked people to go through the permit process, which triggers an inspection, which immediately triggers a cease-operations, leaving people frustrated that I'm telling them to go, you got to go get your permits, you got to get your stuff in order. They go in, you know, and then when the inspection is triggered, there's a cease-operation. How can we better close that loop? Because to me, the cease-operation, if there's a public safety measure, is important, but we also are not articulating what compliance issues they need to come -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Exactly. And that's a partnership with the community, with City Council, with L&I in the City. We need to do a good job of educating our customers and constituents so that if someone wants to start a business in the City and 162 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 they're doing due diligence in trying to do the right thing and get the permits and the license, which is, of course, what we want them to do, they have a full understanding of the process is and what they need to comply with and how so it doesn't trigger a cease-operations.

When trigger a cease-operation, what do we do to folks? We go in, we put up that red sticker; what do we do, what do we say to folks? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Dominic, do you want to -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: First of all, Co9uncilwoman, I think it's a misconception on how fast we issue a cease-operations.

Mm-hmm. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: A cease-operations does not get triggered by someone coming in and asking for a permit. 163 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

Mm-hmm. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: The inspection, that process -- if somebody came in and asked for the permit, it's probably 'cause that inspector three or four times prior, before, to look into the process.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: And why I say that, if the inspector went out to the location and it didn't have the proper zoning, zoning is usually a three-step processes that will take -- before we issue a cease-operations, there's the initial violation, then there's an intent-to-cease order and an administrative hearing that will call a person into. Then there's an intent-to- cease, which we try to give in that last warning and say, We're coming back in five days if you don't try to follow this process. And then we 164 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 initiate the cease-operations. If we initiate the cease- operations and the business must be closed, we turn the paperwork over to the Police Department, who then enforce the cease-operations.

Question: In all those times when we say we have an intent, all of the different processes, are we giving to folks in writing what corrective actions they must meet and how they come back and trigger the reinspection? DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Absolutely. They have a copy of the violation notice. The violation has a phone number. If they do not understand what's in that violation -- and there is a written part of the Code that explains to them what they need to do to come into compliance. There are several phone numbers or one phone number for that inspector on that form, which they can 165 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 get the information.

Is that phone number regularly answered? And I'll give you an example. I had a situation, and Commissioner Evans had to reassure me where there was in error an eminent domain sign posted. And I told my staff, let's go through the process and call the number. We called the number connectively five days at all different times and never got a pickup. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: I could tell you the phones at Business Compliance are operational. Between the hours of 8:30 and 4 o'clock every day, someone answers the phones that have anything to do with business compliance. And there's also -- if those phone lines aren't answered, there is -- the businesses are aware that 166 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 there's licenses -- on their license there's also phone numbers that could be called, and they are answered. (Timer bill rings.)

But this is a personal -- we just did this two weeks ago. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: I don't know --

And we called at all times. I had them start calling from 8:00 in the morning. We called a different day around 10:30. So I don't know how we do a job -- how do we monitor to make sure those calls are being answered? because then, you know -- DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Do you have that --

I shouldn't have to call, you know, shouldn't have to ask Eileen Evans just for assurance that it was in error; we knew it was in error. We wanted 167 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 someone do give us something in writing to assure the owner that it was in error. DEPT. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Could your staff e-mail us or send us that number? And we'll look into why that number wasn't answered.

Yes, we'll share it with you. I would also like to ask -- and I'll come back. All of these packages that we're talking about, I'd like to -- if I can get a sample package of those and I want to say if there's an English and a Spanish one when necessary, when we're giving out some of these -- specifically when we go out and we know that the business owner does not speak English or doesn't do it readily and -- 'Cause I had a situation where a woman was put through Zoning because she was doing an accessory sign outside. She went to the Zoning 168 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 hearing and did the phone call situation for the translator. And at the end of the day, they told us don't put the sign out. She had spent all of this money and had spent three months in a process when it was just a sign that she sometimes posted her specials on.

Well, I just have to say you have a tough department. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER ELFREY: And we're up to the challenge.

And we really want to help you. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We have a lot of good folks at L&I and --

You really do. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: And we have a lot of --

But you don't have enough folks at L&I; that's 169 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 the problem. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We have a lot of good folks at L&I that really care and do a good job, and we're going to leverage that.

And I wasn't here earlier, but I see one of the comments that the President had made about your public relations campaign. You know, we've been in Council and we go to the community meetings two and three times a week, and it's the same scenario over and over again. We think the public knows -- they know what to do in terms of their neighborhood. What we lack is enforcement. That's what we lack, enforcement. (Applause.)

So if you have money to spend, I would rather you hire whoever -- more staff to provide 170 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 the inspections and the enforcement and whatever is needed to make sure that things get taken care of. And then you'll -- the public will know that you are doing your job, 'cause if I have to call five times because there's a problem someplace -- and I won't say I've called five times 'cause you've been real good on responding to us. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Good. That's good to hear.

But the bad guys kind of outmaneuver you because there are more of them and fewer of you, and they know that it's going to take some time for you to get back out to do a reinspection, so they do what they want to do. So I just -- the department has been very supportive, very responsive to my office, and I wanted to say that, but the system is overwhelming, and we do have a lot of 171 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 problems in this city. Councilman Rizzo?

Commissioner, I'd like to go back to the construction Dumpsters, and could you assemble the people that you think would be the ones to discuss that with me. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Sure, absolutely. We'll have the Streets --

No, right now. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Oh, I'm sorry.

Yeah. Two years ago, we had no legislation on construction Dumpsters, where a contractor would put one on a sidewalk, force pedestrians into the street. We had contractors doing demolition or doing remodeling; they would place a Dumpster in the running lane of a roadway. I'd like to know, three years 172 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 ago, before the legislation, what's different today and the status of that legislation that this Council worked very hard on to deal with the issues. If you're limiting et right now to construction Dumpsters, that's fine with me but we'll find out if it does embrace other Dumpsters that are left on the right-of-way. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: If I may, Councilman,I'm going to ask Otis Haigler to explain the legislation issue, but we'll be more than happy to provide your office and the Council President a full report on where we are with Dumpsters, what has happened in the past, so that you can review that. (Witness comes forward.)

First of all, to Mr. Haigler, Mr. Haigler, you know that I've been dealing with the implementation of this for many, many years now. And out of courtesy to you and to the Streets Department and L&I, 173 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 I backed off and allowed it to implement on the timeline that you described. Is this legislation implemented today?

Yes, it is.

Could you describe that legislation and what is required of it? Because earlier, you had questions about enforcement, L&I, Streets, who's responsible. Could you go over it briefly?

Sure.

And please specifically the licensing and the enforcement of Dumpsters that are especially left and impede the flow of pedestrian traffic and vehicle traffic. And the requirement to cover them I think you added at night; I don't see any of that. But let's listen to what you have to say.

Yes. For the 174 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 record my name is Otis Haigler, Jr. I'm the Director of Legislative Affairs for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. The legislation that Councilman Rizzo speaks of is legislation that was passed, I believe, about two, three years ago related to construction equipment, and the construction equipment includes construction Dumpsters; the other parts of the equipment was scaffolding and other things that are a part of the public right-of-way. But specifically towards construction Dumpsters, we have implemented that with the Streets Department. L&I's responsibility deals with licensing of the companies. We license the various companies that have construction Dumpsters in their fleet. Now, the requirements of the Code, on that section of the Code, 175 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 deals with all Dumpsters that are placed in the public right-of-way, not private Dumpsters that's within the property line, not Dumpsters in restaurants, but Dumpsters that are specifically in the public right-of-way that could be used for a variety of issues in the public right-of-way, not necessarily just for construction debris, but it could be utilized for cleaning purposes or whatever, as long as it's in the public right-of-way. We work with the Streets Department. The Streets Department's responsibility there is to issue a permit for the actual placement of the Dumpster in the right-of-way. L&I's responsibility is to license annually the companies, their fleet of Dumpsters, and we issue what we call "fleet licenses" to license the various Dumpsters of every individual company that proposes to 176 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 put their Dumpster in the public right-of-way. The Streets Department, along with L&I, develops certain regulations to regulate the Dumpsters. As Councilman is aware, there were requirements that they would have reflectors on the Dumpsters. There was a specific requirement that the Councilman requested that the Dumpsters would be covered when they're not in use. There were requirements that there be something placed underneath the Dumpsters. All of those things have been placed in the regulations as a requirement. And, as we know right now, we are enforcing that.

So L&I's role is strictly to license the Dumpsters that are in the right-of-way?

That is correct.

Are -- to 177 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 your knowledge, how many licenses have you issued?

I don't have the exact number, but I can get back to you with that.

Could you get back to the Chair with that? Commissioners, what I'm trying to get to, we went through a lot of work to get that legislation passed and the other processes. I just want to make sure that the license -- these companies that come into Philadelphia that place those Dumpsters in the right-of-way, that they're doing it according to the regulations, and that's all I would like to catch up with you on, to make sure that when we back away from this issue and start dealing with something else, that at least that's in place. It took three years to get it implemented. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We don't 178 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 want to let all of that hard work go to waste, sir, and it's an important quality-of-life issue for the citizens; it's a public-safety issue. And we're with you.

'Cause, you know, there's nothing like this windy weather that we've had recently. A construction Dumpster's left on the highway; the next thing, you have pieces of drywall blowing all over the place, trash all over the neighborhood. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: I agree with you.

And it really -- the regulation needs to be enforced. Thanks for your acknowledgment of that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Point of information.

You're on.

Point of information. I think that one of the 179 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 things that Councilman Rizzo is speaking to -- and I just wanted to add it as we review this whole Dumpster situation. When we issue the permits, when we're giving out those permits, I think there needs to be strong language around the collection and the placement of the Dumpster in the appropriate location. I have several sites in Frankford, for instance, where I have multifamily dwellings and buildings who have the private Dumpster collection. In one case, we've tried work with the manager, but the collection company comes, picks it up, and then leaves it and blocks sometimes two parking spots for folks. So I think in whatever we're giving when we issue some of these commercial Dumpsters needs to really articulate that they are responsible for that Dumpster, or the company that 180 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 they contract, putting the Dumpster back where it belongs. And I think we've shared with your offices some pictures and examples of where we have had problems historically and if you look at the file. And I just think that, you know, going back to Councilwoman Tasco's point, you know, we keep spinning the wheels on the same, same issue, that we have to figure out how we stop it, because it just -- it seems petty for us to make the same call over and over on one Dumpster, but for the people who live on that block whose two parkings or driveways -- COMMISSIONER ELFREY: It's not petty to them. They live with it everyday and they shouldn't have to.

Yeah. I think we need to look at what we're doing in that permitting process and 181 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 what can we be doing there to send a strong message that, you know, not only that we're going to cite them but that they comply with this. And I think that the pickup companies, the companies have a lot to do with that. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Thank you.

Thank you very much. Thank you for your testimony, and we wish you well. Thank you. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Thank you. MR. McPHERSON: The next department is the Board of L&I Review.

Good morning, Councilwoman Tasco and members of Council. I'm Bridget Collins- Greenwald, the administrative services director for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. I appreciate the opportunity to present the Board of L&I 182 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 Review Fiscal Year '09 Operating Budget. The Board of L&I Review is requesting a total FY '09 budget of $222,458 in the City's General Fund. For the General Fund breakout, we are requesting: $198,108 in Class 100. $23,722 in Class 200. $628 in class 300. The FY '09 request will fund three full-time General Fund positions comparable to the FY '08 authorized General Fund position level. Thank you. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Are there any questions of this witness? (No questions.)

Thank you very much. Next? MR. McPHERSON: Board of Building Standards. 183 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165

Good morning, Councilwoman Tasco and members of Council. I'm Bridget Collins- Greenwald, the administrative services director for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. I appreciate the opportunity to present the Board of Building Standards Fiscal Year 2009 Operating Budget request. The Board of Building Standards is requesting a total FY '09 budget of $112,792 in the City's General Fund. For the General Fund breakout we are requesting: $112,733 in Class 100 and $59 in Class 200. The FY '09 request will fund two General Fund positions comparable to the FY '08 authorized General Fund position level. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.

(Inaudible; off-mic.)

The Board of 184 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 Building Standards hears appeals from the construction permits. So if you have an appeal or an opinion you would like on any type of construction permit, it would go to the Board of Building Standards.

And the board is appointed by the...?

By the Mayor.

By the Mayor, same as the Zoning Board of Adjustments.

Yes.

Okay. Thank you very much for your testimony.

One more. MR. McPHERSON: The Zoning Board of Adjustment.

Good morning, Councilwoman Tasco and members of Council. I'm Bridget Collins- Greenwald, the administrative services director for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. I appreciate the 185 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 opportunity to present the Zoning Board of Adjustment's Fiscal Year Operating Budget request. The Zoning Board of Adjustment is requesting a total FY '09 budget of $445,810 in the City's General Fund. For the General Fund breakout, we are requesting: $402,272 in Class 100 and $43,538 in Class 200. The FY '09 request will fund five full-time General Fund positions comparable to the FY '08 authorized General Fund position level. Thank you. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you very much. I see Miss Jaffe is here, who is the Chair of the Zoning Board. Thank you for coming, welcome, and we're glad to see you back on the Zoning Board.

Thank you.

Any 186 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 questions of the Zoning Board? Councilwoman Sanchez.

Yes. As it relates to the Zoning Board, I know that we're going through several adjustments, but I had a question. When we are reviewing Zoning Board variances, do we look and factor in the history of the business as part of our decision-making process to grant certain variances and expanded uses for facilities?

Could you repeat that question, Councilwoman?

When we -- when the Zoning Board is making a decision, factoring in a decision, for a permitted use of an existing business or expansion of a current business, do we factor in any of its previous history in terms of noncompliance, Code violations, any of that stuff, when we're issuing variances?

If it appears on 187 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 the paperwork.

Would you identify yourself for the record first.

Susan Jaffe, Chair of the Zoning Board. If it appears on the paperwork or we have anything in the file, it would be factored in.

So unless it's in your file, you wouldn't factor that in?

We wouldn't know to factor that in. We -- unless there was something in the file or there were neighbors there or we received information about it, it would not be factored in. If there were violations, absolutely. If we had paperwork, yes.

So then my question to the Commissioner is: As the staffing of the Zoning Board prepares its paperwork on properties, is that something that we consistently 188 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 make sure that we go back and re-review any previous complaints or history on the properties? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Yes. They check the Hansen system to ensure that all of the violations and any supporting documentations are in the package.

So that's in the file? COMMISSIONER ELFREY: It should be.

I have a serious situation with 2429 North Palethorpe. It's an illegal garage that has operated for a long time. Three weeks ago, they came before the Zoning Board. There was a lot of opposition to it because he did not have the proper equipment to paint. Saturday, I went over there and, lo and behold, he's painting. We issued a cease-operations. The Zoning Board authorized his usage one day, 189 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 and two days later, we had a cease-operations because of its history. And he's just blatant about it and he's painting. And we knew, based on the history of the property, that his intent was not just to do body and fender but to paint. But the Zoning Board -- and there was plenty of opposition, both community folks, our office. There was a history on the case and we issued the variance, obviously, with the proviso that he's not doing painting, but historically, that's what he's been doing, and that's what he was doing Saturday at 4 o'clock.

As I understand it, that case -- we actually had L&I go out and take a look at that case because there were complaints that he was doing work at night. And I wish Dominic were here, but he said there was no work being done at night, although some of 190 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 the protestants had said that. I'm familiar with the case, though, because it's one of the few cases that stands out in my mind as, you know, a case that could have gone either way, and perhaps we made the wrong decision on it. I don't know. I can only say that when I got that information, I did ask L&I to go out and check and --

There is a cease on it.

And I know they've been out there several times.

There is a cease on it, but the gentleman is very blatant. He does work Saturdays and Sundays. It's about four blocks from my house. I get at least two neighbors a week that come to my house. I drive by there deliberately every time, and he's still doing it; he's working -- it's a very small street, he's still working out on the 191 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 street. And, like I said, at o'clock on Saturday, when we 4 finished our cleanup, I said, Let me go drive by there. Lo and behold, he was painting. Now, they're telling us we got to call the Police Department. I've talked to the captain, I have the neighbors constantly calling. But, as you know, that's a low-priority call. So we're in a -- it's in a section of the City where there's other things that are much, much more important. In a case like that, it would seem to me that that's not something that we want to consistently trouble the Police Department about, because it's not going to get on the top of the priority list. And as much as neighbors call and it's always on -- we put it on roll call, it's still functioning. We have not been able to get the Police Department to go out there and close it down. 192 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 COMMISSIONER ELFREY: At the conclusion of this meeting, I'll speak to Deputy Commissioner Verdi, and we'll reach out to the Police Department and try to coordinate our efforts to alleviate that situation.

He has -- I've spoken to the captain. I mean, he sent me a text this morning and we were still on it.

I would offer one other suggestion. I mean, I don't like to talk about specific cases; I'd rather talk in general terms, and your question started out as a general question and then got very specific.

Mm-hmm.

But, you know, if you feel that we voted in the wrong way, you can ask for a reconsideration or you can go through the process and file an appeal with Common Pleas Court.

There is going to be an appeal coming through, 193 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 but I wondered if there was a reconsideration process that --

There is. We're getting tons of them because we're dealing with the former board, but I know this case was our -- you know, at least the most recent was our responsibility. Thank you.

Another point. I mean -- and I know this is really complicated. I have 12 ward leaders and civic groups doing 15 zoning in the district, and that is one that we are working with them to streamline, and every zoning volunteer group has its own processes not necessarily documented. We've gotten them to the point where they're defining boundaries. I'm meeting with each -- I met with all the groups on an initial round, all 15 of them, to say we need to do this in a more thoughtful feel 194 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 way, and as much as I appreciate all of their energy, I'd love them to talk about what they want in their neighborhoods versus what they don't want. So we're working to help make this process smoother. And part of it is by sending a consistent message around processes in terms of who do they talk to, what are some of the problems that some of the civic groups have with certain types of businesses, so is that when someone is going before the Zoning, they're informed, and that has not been an easy process. I've mediated several meetings where I think the neighbors were out of bounds in how they treated folks and definitely don't create a culture and an environment where people want to go in, even along the corridors as we talk about corridor development. But this is something that I encourage -- and I know when I worked 195 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 with Councilwoman Tasco, she has the Zoning -- a powerful woman over there, Miss Johnson, who lives off of that stuff. I really think that we should put together, my suggestion is, a task force based on some of the experience that is in Council, based on the reality of all of the different stakeholders who want to have a say, and try to come up with one process or as close to one process as possible, 'cause I think it's going make our lives easier. I know we're going to do it in the 7th. People can get upset me if they want, but I'm not doing three hours of zoning meetings with 15 different groups. But just something that we need to give thought to, because as much as we say the zoning reform piece is going to happen, it's going to take three or four years. And in the 196 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 meantime, we have people spending hundreds and hundreds of hours in these discussions. I just think we need to do a better job. Again, for me to sit through a community meeting for three hours to talk about one business and have 50 people, where we could be talking about a whole host of, you know, more proactive issues, is very difficult. And I don't have the answer. I know we're looking to try to streamline that and create a more -- a fairer process. Even for businesses coming in and making some recommendations to them, but this is something that we really need to, in the interim, kind of work at. So I know that this is new for you. At some point, I'd love to just kind of brainstorm 'cause, again, we want to make this easier, but it's just very, very complicated 'cause it's just -- it's been going on for 30 197 4/7/08 - Whole - 080022, 157, 160, 164, 165 years. COMMISSIONER ELFREY: Councilwoman, at your convenience, have your staff contact us, and we will be happy to set up a meeting with you and do that brainstorming; that's a good idea.

Yeah, we definitely want someone assigned to work with us. We're going to do a retreat with all of my civic groups, and we would definitely like to have someone from L&I to come talk to us, because, as great as all those provisos are, I know you don't have the staff to do the enforcement. And as much as I tell the groups, you can do ten provisos; we're not going to be able to enforce some of the stuff, so... COMMISSIONER ELFREY: We'll be happy to work with you.