just be for after school children
so are you art is the intent to turn the first floor into apartment until that happens well the
first floor already was i mean i mean to utilize the first floor as an apartment until that happens
or you're going to keep the first floor vacant no i want to try i want to let the first floor be at
apartment until we expand if we if we expand okay can i jump in for a minute miss carrie this is
hillary board council so the way your refusal is written you are changing this from a duplex
to a child care center plus one dwelling unit that's right okay that's the way the refusal
written so if you still want to use the first floor as an apartment right now um you that's
not what you're you're asking to do you're only asking for one dwelling unit okay now i want to
keep it one dwelling unit okay but then so what i'm saying is if you if you don't expand to the
first floor with the child care center you would have to come back to the zoning board and get a
variance to have two apartments again you're erasing permission to have two apartments with
with this application all right so i just want to make sure you're you're clear with that because
it sounds like you the expansions in the future you might want to still use the first floor as
an apartment and under this application you can't you only have you it's only for one apartment and
a child care center okay okay if that is not what you intend to do we should have the refusal change
so it reflects accurately what you want to do right now um so but the thing is if you only
approve the child care center for the basement if you expand to the first floor later that's
probably going to require another variance so you have to you basically have to decide what you want
to do if you want to keep the duplex now and put child just child care in the basement and then
come back and expand it later or that's what i would like to do okay so you would like to keep
the duplex for now and just have the child care in the basement yes okay so if we're going to do
that then we need a corrected refusal that says that so um that's something that i can assist with
um when we would just hold the vote in this case get the refusal corrected then the board will come
back and vote on it once we have what you want on the refusal all right okay yes but as a suggestion
Yes. But as a suggestion, I would like I think we need to see basement plans for the daycare.
I would like I think we need to see.
Yes. When you come back. OK, tell me what you mean.
You want to say like right now, the basement plan is shaded. It's it's it's an existing plan.
And I think we want to see how you intend the first that basement to be used.
I think there's a lot of questions about operating a daycare, even if it's an in-home daycare.
existing row house that aren't currently being answered by the photos or by the plans that you
just showed okay so you want me to have with the daycare pictures i showed you sure put more
pictures up here can you go back to your the other plan the basement plan okay
okay this is the basement plan and this shows the outline you know the the plan for the basement
now i i finished the work move over this put it over here bring this up
all right now i i changed it you know i did all the work down there that needs to be done
keep moving it this is this is the uh sink area can they see it can you see that
yep yes okay that's that's a sink area for for the kids to wash their hands keep going
now this is and i put two bathrooms in i put a toilet for adults move on the front back further
and i put another toilet in for uh that's the entrance keep going
okay now this is the this is the room this is the main room of the basement
right here where you see the gray part where the light switch is on the outside
that's a that's a bathroom uh you know a powder room for the children it has a toilet for the
children in there so the adult bathroom is one place the children's is another give me another
picture down. That's the front of the building. This is the daycare entrance. That's the entrance
to the first floor. That, of course, is the second floor. We'll keep on showing more daycare pictures.
You saw that one.
So essentially, the basement is one large open space.
Yeah, one large open space with two bathrooms.
One bathroom in the front is for the adults.
The bathroom in the back is for the children.
Is there a yard for the daycare?
No, it's a little tiny yard.
But I own the building two doors down, and I have a 40-foot yard there.
And I intended to have that as usage, too.
but it's just two doors there's a big yard i have a building there and i have a big yard there
that's 40 by 30 you still didn't show me i don't know that we can i mean we got to concentrate on
this building here we can't talk about yeah building down the street too and what age how
many children at what age children are they capable of self-preservation do we have steps
to get down into this basement or two steps this this is a board member cheryl gaston
it's two steps get the whole front
get the whole front
okay here it is this is the door to the to the daycare itself there are two steps here one two
okay what age children are we talking about for the daycare how many kids preschool maybe 10
preschool means what three four five okay um and then you okay and how many children are you
talking about i figured 10. okay and is there a drop-off area here or how how is this going to work
you mean other than the street i mean the parents how are you going to look how are you going to get
the kids into the building so how are how are the children going to get there are their parents going
to drive them and do you have you planned for a drop-off area pickup area how is this going to
how is this going to work well by uh there's a driveway of the building on the left
On the other side of that, there's a driveway. On the right, there's a driveway. But I don't have a specific drop-off place.
on that other side that there's a driveway on the right there's a drive
I'm actually familiar with this location. And 53rd Street has two lanes going the same way.
So theoretically, somebody could pull to the side and drop kids off while traffic can still go by.
so it's it they won't necessarily block the street you know what i mean okay
like also just a note for a home daycare license in pennsylvania there's a max of six kids that
can be in the in the space um i guess my question is like how do you foresee your staff working
down here because it's a big open room with the two bathrooms i feel like is there a kitchen
facility like how are they operating the business out of the basement okay i thought that would be
it would be partitioned off with with maybe bookcases or gate for the for the uh partition
off in the back there's a sink and uh a microwave no no other sink and a refrigerator for
food if the youngsters
had bought lunch.
And is this
domestic equipment or
is it commercial equipment?
Well, the only equipment
in there now is a sink and a
microwave.
I mean, you said you had a refrigerator
too. Well,
the refrigerator
is going to be whatever
is required. You know what I mean?
I didn't I didn't buy a refrigerator. And even with the microwave, I wasn't sure of what was required.
So whatever is required is what I will put in there.
All right.
Well, we're not going to vote on this today, right?
No, we're going to come back with plans that we understand just a little bit better.
right and then we're gonna you're gonna change it too am i correct hillary well so can i get
clarification what is it what is it on the plans that the board members wish to see because she
did have plans and she did have photos so i i'm just a little bit unclear what what's being
requested i think it just wasn't really clear how it was going to be how the business was going to
be operated i feel like because this is a use permit there's a lot of questions i have about
how like where certain things for the daycare are going to happen that I think make it hard
to make a zoning decision as it relates to this mid-block residential unit without really
knowing like how it's going to be used in the basement yeah I think I think it might be helpful
if even if it's notes like I think it might be helpful if the applicant looked at the state
requirements for daycare and had whoever their architect is or who's ever doing this layout
to describe number of children because there's a certain square footage per child for the
architect yeah the architect made it out told me between uh he said up to 12 children no what i'm
saying is that information on the documents i guess it's yes it's on the document okay i guess
Well, it's hard to see. It's on this document here. So what's what's indoor play area? What's, you know, what's what's the staff ratio you're going to have? I think those are the things that people want to want to hear.
See this one that he has. Okay. So, okay. So you have it listed. It's just hard to see. Okay.
Okay. Child area number one. Okay. I only got a 42 inch partition. Okay. So it's, I guess, I guess, um, it's, it's just hard to read maybe clearer or something, you know, bring this down, make it better.
Remember Johns, I can, I can, uh, recirculate the plans, um, while we are getting a corrected refusal, if that would be helpful.
yeah that might that might yes please and i think that might mitigate the need for
a resumption hearing we can just hold for a corrected refusal
okay okay um chair i have one question um on the facade of the property after you go down
the first two steps is there a water drain there yes okay i just didn't see anything all right
cool that's what i have and uh the means of ingress and egress you do have two means of
ingress and egress yeah i have like escape plan for these children yeah i have uh
like escape plan for these children yeah i have uh i need right in the back i have a wide door
of 36 inches i had the the uh there's an alleyway going to that driveway i was telling you about
there was a tree there i had that all the tree roots removed i put us uh i had a level sidewalk
put into the tuna three thousand dollars but i had this uh widen to be five feet i made sure it was
level. No, all the routes are gone. Everything is straight and clean here going to the driveway
in the back. I mean, on the side. And there's panic bars on this rear door.
You say, I'm sorry. Part of, part of what you need to do in terms of, you know,
child care, where it's daycare, where the kids are capable of some form of self-preservation,
You still have to have sufficient means of ingress, egress.
You have to have like panic bars on this door so that people can get out.
You need emergency lighting.
You need the fire suppression system, alarm system.
I have that.
So you have all of that?
and for purposes of the you know when you come back
when you prepare your presentation you might want to tell us these things instead of us
having to try and pull it out of you know you may have everything that we are interested in knowing
but the the plan isn't easy easy for us to read and determine that and um you know we we we like
to have some details when we're talking about you know young children yes so so hillary so so i'm
clear when we come back we're going to be asking for a duplex and a daycare yes yes so so mr chair
i don't know that we necessarily need to come back because i think from what i'm hearing from
the board members the they just want to look more closely at the plans but it appears to have the
information that they were requesting already so i will circulate the plans while we work on
addressing the refusal um also i think the refusals for well i'll i'll work through the
refusal with l and i because there's a couple things that may need to be fixed based on the
information um that was received in this hearing and we're still going to go to the public now
we'll go to planning yes we will yes we will questions today questions or comments from the
virtual audience i've seen no hands to planning commission thank you chair bergman and good
afternoon david effecta with the city planning commission chairman and board members the
comprehensive plan recommends no change to the rsa5 residential single family zoning at this
location. This property has a documented history as two dwelling units. The appellant has not shown
that the addition of a child care center is needed to afford the appellant economic use of the
property. The appellant also has not shown that a variance for a child care center defined in the
code as serving 13 or more children in a building that is not the primary residence of the provider
is the minimum variance needed to afford the appellant relief. So the City Planning Commission
recommends the board deny the proposed use variances for child care center and multiple
principal uses. So this will be a resumptive hearing? No, Mr. Chair, I don't think we need
a resumptive hearing. Yes, we'll just vote it when we get the corrected refusal. Yep,
and I will recirculate the exhibits to the board members. Thank you very much. We'll be in touch,
ma'am and thank you very much sure okay let's get back to so now we're going to go to number one
mi 2023 003 492 2219 to 23 north 2nd street meredith ferlinger is the attorney
meredith ferliger is coming back as a panelist now chair okay thank you
afternoon mr chairman could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer
sure meredith ferliger f-e-r-l-e-g-e-r of doorth paxton
Do we're a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Could you identify your client and relationship to the property?
My client is JEM, 2219 North 2nd, LLC, the owner of the property, and that entity is
the owner of the property, and that entity is represented today by Jeffrey Marmer.
represented today by Jeffrey Marmer.
Stan, we have a letter of opposition from Norris Square and a letter of opposition from Councilman
Lozada. You said opposition or non-opposition from the Councilwoman?
It says letter of opposition. Got it. Thank you. Our Vice Chair has a few questions.
Good afternoon, Council. Do you agree to read another refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?
Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits as needed and required to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?
I did.
Thank you, counsel. Please proceed and share your screen.
All right, Mr. Chairman, members of the board, you should see the exhibit list up on the screen right now.
Fabulous.
The proposal before you today concerns a new seven-unit multifamily dwelling in the NARR
Square section of North Philadelphia. The board has my exhibits, which contain 17 sets of documents.
These exhibits do not currently contain tax clearance. There was a really strange issue
with the city system in that this property doesn't even come up on the city system.
i had spoken with board council about this i'm not sure if she has any additional insight on her end
or if the board is going to end up having to hold this so that we can try and figure out what's going
on uh with the city system yeah miss earlier just to interject i i am not i am not sure what's going
on i personally tried this i and it's strange but you have provided a tax clearance previously
um that was you know from this year showing that there was no balance um so we can accept that
um because it you know was from this year and showing no balance so we're we're we're good to
go on this case fabulous thank you hillary the zoning map at exhibit seven bring that up for you
and zoom in shows that the property of 2219 north second street is roughly mid-block between west
Susquehanna Avenue to the south and West Dauphin Street to the north. And you can see I have the