Might I say, Mr. Chairman, as they approach the witness table, it is really a pleasure to see them because I haven't seen them in a long time. And what's ironic was that I had to meet with the building because we had a meeting with John White, Jr. again. He had agreed to come to meet with another tenant leader, Myrtle Carter from Passyunk. He agreed to come with the new director to try to straighten out some problems. So this is a unique day in that I see 347 RESOLUTION 970558 old friends on totally entirely different agendas, but it's nice to see them. And certainly you, as always, Charles.
And I'm very delighted. And the key situation is that most of you -- and I just want to thank you for staying because we've been having a very -- this is, I think -- somebody has said that this is an issue that can really divide the City up and really put it into a very bad situation. And I think we are trying to bring it together, so I'm very happy that you have stayed and that you're here to testify on this issue. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good evening. My name is Corlis Gray. I'm the president of Queen Lane Tenants Council which is under the umbrella of the Residents Advisory Board.
My name is Asia Coney, and I'm also a member of the Residents Advisory Board, president of the Tenants Improvement Council. I'm also a member of the Technical Assistance 348 RESOLUTION 970558 Organization. And, last but not lease, cochairperson of the national organization known as the Million Woman March.
And you're not Tony Lewis 'cause I know Tony Lewis. (Laughter.)
My name is Charles Reeves, Director of Grays Ferry West, in Grays Ferry.
Good afternoon, once again. I'm present today to add my voice in grave concern to many others who have come before you today concerning the changes being proposed to Section 8 Program mainly discussed as it relates to the assignment and on limiting the number of certificates to certain areas and having the certificates become project-based, which, I think, is a very serious program. 349 RESOLUTION 970558 The program, as you know, was designed to have some flexibility and to be mobile and to assist in upgrading one's circumstances as well as provide housing opportunities otherwise not available at the time. The day-to-day threats of the radical conservative Republican and Democratic elected officials who are trying to promote a position steeped in racism, as I see it, where holders of Section 8 certificates will not be given the same rights as everyone else to live in a neighborhood of their choosing. The reduction of the life span of the Section 8 certificate was just the beginning of the demise of this program, with the 15-year certificate which then became the 10-year certificate, then a five-year and now a 2-year, has a 2-year life span, we clearly see that they are chopping away at this program as it goes on. And remember Whitman Park of the 1960's, which became a national disgrace to Philadelphia. We're saying that the racist attitudes of this nation will not be allowed to rear their ugly head again. 350 RESOLUTION 970558 As most of you remember, Whitman Park was a situation that tore the City apart. There were many of us that demonstrated at that time Milton Street, that marched the streets of Philadelphia to Whitman Park. And the outcome was -- and Whitman still is not completely filled in terms of having tenants there based on some other resolutions that came out of that process. To be given a public forum of this magnitude gives credibility to the racism practiced by many and supported by several of our elected officials, and I'm glad to know that you are not some of those that we're talking about. And the individuals that I'm talking about, we vote for, which gives them the opportunity to propose and introduce legislation that is morally wrong and should be out right illegal. Decent housing is a right not a privilege. This nation promised in 1949 to --
I know they do. The nation 351 RESOLUTION 970558 promised in 1949 that it would reach a goal of decent housing and a suitable living environment for every American family. Well, we continue to wait for the nation to make the effort. Grass roots organizations that I belong to and like Leona belongs to and several others of us find ourselves continuously in positions of advocacy where affordable and decent housing becomes less and less of a reality. We equate this not-in-my-backyard syndrome -- and that's basically what this is, not in my backyard syndrome -- to the Jim Crowe legislation of years passed. This hateful, racist behavior by those who insist on ignoring fair housing laws of this United States will not go unchallenged. Anyone who should lead or would an assault on poor, defenseless people who are in search of decent housing should review past history and understand that it was not accepted then, it will not be accepted now, especially as we move towards the year 2,000, into the next millennium. We will not permit racist attitudes in 352 RESOLUTION 970558 individuals to decide where people should or should not live based on standards of race, income ethnic background and/or ignorance. The challenges of Section 8 proposed that are based on racist thinking and ethnic intimidation will be addressed, and we stand and are prepared to meet the challenge. Thank you to the members of City Council. (Applause.)
My name is Corlis Gray president of the Queen Lane Tenants Council, a tenant organization seeking clarity on the Section 15 8 situation. To my knowledge, the message that is being sent by the Housing & Urban Development agreement in Washington is that they don't want to have cities dumping or putting people all on one page. In housing house families of a higher income with families that are very poor, Washington believes that this gives role models for children and adults, which shows them a better way to live and gives them examples to look up 353 RESOLUTION 970558 to. For example, it teaches residents to strive to obtain higher education, to go to work to, to become better citizens, and to put back into the community instead of destroying it. To me, Section 8 is the perfect vehicle to do this. Instead of mixing working people into the sites, you take lower-income people and mixing them in with the working families in the residential areas. I believe they will also need support and services to help build themselves up to be equal to their neighbors. Finally, I would like to refer you to the Gottrick (ph.) Experiment done in Chicago in the 1970's, where the children of lower-income people did better in school, obtaining employment, and behavior than when they lived clustered in segregated inner-city neighborhoods. We should have learned by now that segregating people together in poverty does not help anyone. It doesn't help those families, and it doesn't help the City. Thank you. (Applause.)
That's the lesson 354 RESOLUTION 970558 that this country still has not learned.
Excuse me, Charles, but, you know, we had a professor from Temple who said, by the way, because people say that if you integrate a neighborhood, they think that property values are going down, right? He said it's the opposite. Actually, those neighborhoods in which -- and he said the best way to increase the value of your property is to have a minority buying the house next to you because the house will go up in value. That's very, very -- and the point is when a professor says it with statistics, you know then that it has to be right. Go ahead, Charles.
First of all, I would like to thank you for being here and having these hearings. And I thank the Lord for allowing me to sit here and say the things I'm going to be saying tonight. In reference to Section 8, and we go 355 RESOLUTION 970558 back to the march in Grays Ferry. As you know, I was one of the major pushers of that march in Grays Ferry, and I thank God I was able to do that 'cause I thought it was necessary, absolutely necessary, and I hope it don't become necessary again in any other parts of the City. But, unfortunately, from what I'm hearing that's coming out of the Northeast, on the TV, they're showing a letter that's being passed out to people about how they're going to be burned out if they don't move out of Section 8 houses. I say to these people who are thinking like this, Beware, 'cause you live in a house too. And, so help me God, if any part of this City where we find the black people have been attacked there, we're going to take black men in that area. We're not going to no longer all sit back and call the police department because we're finding out that the police department, with their racist attitudes, is part of the major problem of the problems we're having in this City and especially Grays Ferry where we got people who are filing complaints about being harassed, their 356 RESOLUTION 970558 houses being attacked, their children being attacked, their places being wrote on and being called "black nigger this" and "black nigger that" every time they come out their door. And the police department comes and it winds up with a reverse charge on them. It's happening in Grays Ferry right today. And the potential for explosion in this city is great and it may start there in Grays Ferry 'cause people there have been living with this stuff a long time and trying to do the right thing, trying to work around these problems. But there's a group of people, like Kenney said earlier, knuckle heads, who insist upon this racial stuff. And one of the reasons is for the first time in the history of Grays Ferry, you got ten white males on trial for assaulting a black family, and not only just one black family, there's black families being messed with every night in that neighborhood right today. I know because I go into these blocks and go into these people's houses with my people, to make sure that from now on, that they have support, because the police department will not give them the type of 357 RESOLUTION 970558 response they need tog get. Section 8 goes back years ago. I was in the demonstration in Whitman Park. C. with Frank Rizzo when they brought him there twice because he didn't utilize the Section 8 program correctly in the City of Philadelphia. I don't know if any of you all remember that. And here we go, here we are now. And now my concern is where you gonna cluster these people at? What are you talking about, in the suburbs? I know nobody's stated where they going at. C. C. about this very same thing. In 1982, they were talking about relocating Hispanics and blacks in suburban areas, they were talking about cutting this and cutting that and the Section 8 program. Back in May of last year, I (unintelligible) in Grays Ferry in the little (unintelligible) in a church somewhere. There was so much racism in the room, you could cut through 358 RESOLUTION 970558 with a butter knife. And these people are talking about vigilantes marching on people's houses and getting rid of 'em, and the guy next door got a Cadillac and I don't have none, I've been working 30 years, and all this stupid stuff like I heard some of the stuff here tonight. It has nothing to do with the person's (unintelligible) or what right they have to be there. If they're doing something illegal, have the police deal with it, but you don't have a right to march to on their house and threaten the people, okay?
The people in Grays Ferry who are now supporting these criminals who attacked this lady over there and that (unintelligible) family, and they're upset about it and they think they're going to use this Section 8 thing as an excuse to keep attacking people, I warn them, be very careful about what they're doing 'cause we are fed up with their foolishness, we're fed up with the police department. And, I'm telling you, this City's getting ready to rock and roll of they don't watch themselves. 359 RESOLUTION 970558 And not only them in South Philly, the ones out in the Northeast and in any other part of the City where they think they can just attack black families and get away with it. Now, I had a lady that just called me this morning from the Northeast. They were running up to her house and they told her they'd burn them out, and all this kind of foolishness going on. And still the police department winds up locking her son up for defending his mother. I want to say this, and I'm going to say this with all my heart, I've been in this City, have doing community work for 37 years. I'm not a racist. I don't care what color people they were. But if they're violating the law -- we're supposed to be law-abiding citizens. If these people are violating the law, why aren't they being arrested? Why is all this dumb stuff going on? And this is what's making people mad because the police department will not arrest these people. Because most of the police out in my area live out there; we got three captains who 360 RESOLUTION 970558 live right around me. ), who lives at 1524 Washington Street. They was doing everything to this woman. Here's a woman that's in her late 30s, she's never been arrested in her life. And in the last month and a half, she's been arrested three times on her block when she called the cops to complain about what they was doing to her. And when the cops come, the white folks come out in the street and scream and holler, and the police, the same racist police, wind up charging her. Now, she's got three different cases to go to court with. She's moving. And I see now we're starting to get our churches burned down right here in the City of Philadelphia. Where do these people think they are? Somebody better listen up, somebody better talk up to them because, I'm telling you --
Mr. Reeves, I think today, in essence, I'm a believer that you got to discuss problems, and you got to be able to put everything on the table. 361 RESOLUTION 970558 They asked us to postpone this hearing, I mean, because they were afraid of something happening, and that it was too volatile. I've never been afraid to face the tough, hot, whatever issues there are. And I said no because we cannot let something just fester, fester and fester outside. And we have to begin taking positions of leadership. And we have to begin saying that certain things are wrong and that certain attitudes are wrong. And that if there is, what we cannot do is to allow a program to become a code word for something else. And we have to begin, those of us who are in political leadership and who have been put into leadership, we have to begin saying, This is not going to happen while we sit here. We will not allow it. I will not want for you to do what you say, you know, that, because we should not allow anybody, the citizens of this City, no matter who they are and where they come from or how poor or how rich, we're supposed to be a City and a nation of laws, and those laws have to be respected, and 362 RESOLUTION 970558 everybody has to be protected at the same level. And I would hate us to ever be put into a position in which we have to start taking the law into our own hands to try and defend our own self, because then we have ceased being a society. And we cannot afford that. And I know that we are at this point -- I got two -- I got three kids. I got two at home; one is seven and one is three. And I want them to be able to live and be able to go out. And I teach them that they are individuals that are free, and they are able to do that and go wherever it is in this country as long as they obey the laws. So we have a situation here, and I think we needed this hearing in order to start putting this issue on the right track, and I think we've accomplished that today. I think we accomplished that today. We need to begin taking the code word out of Section 8. We need to begin taking out the code word when they say, These people get something for nothing and I'm a taxpayer and I am subsidizing someone. 363 RESOLUTION 970558 And, like I said very early on in this hearing today in the morning, I pay a mortgage so I am subsidized by the federal government. I receive a federal subsidy. Everyone who is a homeowner in this City receives a federal subsidy. If you don't like federal subsidies, then let us go out and give back the mortgage subsidy that we get. I don't think anyone, any homeowner in this City would do that. When the Republicans in Congress said that they wanted to get rid of the home mortgage subsidy, they almost got thrown out of office, almost got thrown out, and they backed out because they would not be allowed to do that. And the same thing here. Section 8 is not a program that began yesterday. The problems of poverty and neighborhoods that we have were not begun by Section 8 individuals. Racism was not started by Section 8. Section 8 is a program that began in the '30s and helped a lot of white folks, it helped a lot of individuals who today have sent kids to college and so on down the line. 364 RESOLUTION 970558 So what we are trying to do is make it clear to the administration that the ghettoizing, if it was wrong to put into ghettos, 20-story ghettos in Richard Rosen, and everybody found out that that was a bad experiment. Well, it is wrong to put them in small little clusters the same way, and I think the message that is being sent to the Mayor and to the PHA people and to the OHCD is, in essence, that we don't like clustering, we do not like people being set apart from one another, to being labeled. We are not that type of society. That type of society is not what American society is to be about. We do not label people and put a star on an individual and say, There goes a poor person. That is not the type of City that we want.
That is the type of City that creates problems and creates division and creates hostility and hatred, and I don't think we want to go down that road.
One more point I wanted to add to that. In the process of having HUD enforce some of the regulations that they have for the 365 RESOLUTION 970558 Section 8 program, which I think is a good program if they'll do that, the police department in this City needs to be checked. Because, see, the police department is causing a lot of problems in the City because they're not doing their job properly, you know, and this is where this racism is coming out of, this Philadelphia Police Department. And I'm talking seriously about Grays Ferry, okay? And I suspect that it's going on all over the City, because the same things are happening where people are being attacked and nothing's being done about it. So we need to make sure that these laws are going to be enforced for everybody. Thank you very much.
Yes. I would just like to clarify a point. Charles talked about a meeting earlier at a church. This meeting was called by the Grays Ferry Community Council in which John White, Jr., who, at that time, was elected director of the Philadelphia Housing Authority attended. 366 RESOLUTION 970558 The specific purpose of that meeting was them demanding that no more Section 8 certificates will be placed in the Grays Ferry community, and it was a very volatile meeting. Also, the other individuals that Charles talked about, the women and the families that have been addressed in homes that we've gone to, they are also recipients or holders of Section 10 8 certificates. So to be real clear, this situations is one in which individuals are moving into communities with Section 8 certificates, which is their right, but they are being met with racism. And I honestly see this whole plan of clustering individuals as a plan of getting individuals out of the community and it is disguised and steeped deep in racism. And, for the record, I want to be clear that everybody understands that.
And, clearly stated, it's clustering black people. And everybody else waltzes in and takes the regular Section 8 367 RESOLUTION 970558 certificates and go into the neighborhoods and cluster our people. And that's what I resent.
Well, I don't think it functioned, I don't think it worked. And, as David Cohen said here before he left, I don't think the majority of this Council, the overwhelming majority of this Council, would go along with a plan like that, and we would make it very clear that we need to discuss whatever plan PHA or OHCD is trying to put across, they're going to have to come here before they implement it.
My name is Leo Bazzoli, mostly known as "Buzz." I'm on the Board of Directors of the Kensington Independent Civic Association. I've been a community activist for around 40 years. I 368 RESOLUTION 970558 believe I'll go first in testimony.
I want to thank you, by the way. You know, you understand that we had a very long hearing, and I want to thank you for staying and bearing with us throughout the day. So I apologize for the length but thank you very much for staying.
Being as I'm testifying so late, I've cut everything to the bare bones. Tonight I'll attempt to put forth a few observations that I've gotten for more years than I care to remember as being a community activist. And I hope to shed light on the situation for both sides. Section 8, when it was originally set up, it set the rents for an entire zip code. It purposely set them high to entice landlords to accept Section 8 vouchers because everybody -- well, no one knew what it was, and was a little leery about it. And this caused rents in the area to rise accordingly. And a landlord that doesn't have Section 8 says, Hey, those guys are getting X-amount of dollars, so I'm going to raise my rent 369 RESOLUTION 970558 and they did. But the scattered site Section 8 hasn't worked too well till this time, and two of the reasons follow. I'm sure you've heard all kinds of horror stories today about landlords not taking care of properties and stuff like that. That's another issue that should be addressed. Many of the people chosen for this program lacked the social skill to interact in a positive way in new surroundings. Secondly, many of them lacked basic housekeeping skills. As strange as it seems, we had a situation on our street where a family moved into an apartment, their washer sat on the porch for a week or two. We figured, They're going to put it in eventually. One day the washer's out there happily pumping wash water over the banister and onto the pavement. So we immediately told the people. They said, Well, that's where we're going to put our washer, and you're going to take it and like it. And so we had to contact the landlord and L&I to get the situation settled. Well, these people 370 RESOLUTION 970558 just didn't know any better. Perhaps -- now, this is the nasty word, and I don't think to use it, but perhaps some sort of a clustered or living in an area to enhance these skills before these people move into the community, it might help. In other words, I'm sure the councilwomen and the councilmen, they've watched their parents clean and this and that, and they know how to do it. Now, I know people that can't scrub a floor. They have no idea what to do. They know to slosh some water and push a mop around but that's it, let alone cleaning a house or taking care of the outside. In many cases, people like that are the very reason for flight by established residents of a neighborhood, regardless of race, color, or whatever. The flight begins and then it becomes a target for real estate speculators who move in, using scare tactics to induce more flight. Believe me, we've lived through this. Did you see what moved in down the street? , etc. A community rapidly disintegrates from that point, from a taxpaying community to a tax-dependent community and with the result of cutting back in public services. I'm sure the streets in Chestnut Hill are cleaned a lot more often than the streets are in Kensington. The only time they get cleaned is when we do it ourselves. As the properties deteriorate, other speculators move in, they buy these properties for a pittance, and they resell them on either a shady lease-purchase deal where the poor person's bought the house and will never have a chance as a snowball in Hades to own that house. It's just a way to renting a house, without taking responsibilities. They either do that or put it under Section 8 for as long as they can or put it on an open rental market. And they file an untraceable lease or an untraceable deed by using the property they purchased as their mailing address. This way, they become invisible, the visible landlords. I can point out properties in 372 RESOLUTION 970558 Kensington that -- five different properties that the same man owns. He's got five different addresses, and we can't locate him. As a rule, these people pay no taxes or water or sewer bills.
They do minimal repairs, and when they milk the property for all it's worth, they walk away from it and they leave the community with another problem to deal with. And I'm referring you to the accompaniment in my testimony there. That's 244 abandoned houses in a 20-block area of Kensington.
And all of these 244 houses were Section 8 houses? And you have proof of that?
No, no. Let me go on. All of these houses were once owner-occupied, and they went through that scenario in one way or another, whether they went through Section 8 or whether they went through private rentals.
But do you have proof that these houses were abandoned because Section 8 moved into the neighborhood?
No. Well, I've known people -- not an abandoned house, Councilman, 373 RESOLUTION 970558 Don't get me wrong there. I'm not saying this. We have Section 8 on our street, and they're --
But you're making a statement about 244 houses that are abandoned, and the interpretation is that these houses were the result, the end-result of the same program.
They were owned the by speculators at one time or another. They went through the above scenario, whether they were rented through Section 8 or whether they were rented on the open market is irrelevant.
But you cannot prevent speculators. We're talking here about Section 8 housing, okay? And we need to be able to have that very clear. You cannot say that 244 houses, and you make a list here, and that also these houses give the impression -- and I don't want to leave it for the record -- that these houses were abandoned because of Section 8 problems.
I'm not saying they were abandoned because of Section 8; they were abandoned because of condition that they were let 374 RESOLUTION 970558 get into by the landlords who filed an untraceable deed. You can't find these people, they're gone, but we're stuck with the houses. Whether those houses were Section 8 or whether they were straight rentals or whether they were owned, it doesn't matter. They were gone.
They were once owner-occupied, you have said that. Perhaps the time has come to limit the number of Section 8 rentals.
Now, these properties were once owner-owner homes which had been through the scenario above. I don't care whether it's -- look, I have nothing against Section 8, nothing at all. We're going to have the poor people that are going to be living with us forever; they must be helped. But I do have a problem with the way Section 8 operates. It's a cash cow for landlords. Maybe the time has come to limit the number of Section 8 rentals in a block or in a 375 RESOLUTION 970558 community because Section 8 rentals, as they work now, are usually the predecessor to the community's decline.
I just want to put for the record that nothing you have said in this testimony goes to substantiate that.
But what substantiates that is the information I gave you. Being it's so late, I wouldn't go through all that. As it stands now, it's too generous, and it just became a racket. People move in, they don't take care of the properties, the landlord doesn't take care of the property, he just wants his money. The Section 8 Program has to change from both sides. Landlords have to be more closely supervised, and even landlords that don't do Section 8. We have buildings in our neighborhood that rented Section 8 until they became ineligible for Section 8 because they were so bad. And the landlords proceeded to rent them to other people 376 RESOLUTION 970558 until they abandoned the building. And I'm referring you right now to the New York Times article. You take that and you read it at your leisure because it's long, but it's interesting.
We will do that, and we will include everything in the record.
And I'm asking you -- to answer the Councilman's question, show me a neighborhood that's been improved or stabilized by excessive Section 8 housing, and I'll humbly apologize for everything in here.
Thank you. I represent West and Southwest Philadelphia. We have opened hundreds of brand-new housing developments. Developers came in, some co- ventured with the community, some were totally private, and they have the Section 8 subsidies, brand-new, beautiful housing throughout West and Southwest Philadelphia. So I differ with your statement when you say, Has our community been enhanced or 377 RESOLUTION 970558 stabilized? The answer is yes. We have hundreds of houses in West Philadelphia to substantiate that fact.
Well, it must be brand-new housing. I mean, to stabilize an established neighborhood, it hasn't been done. Kensington is your prime example, Councilwoman.
Well, I can't comment on Kensington; I don't know it, but I do know that in West Philadelphia, it works for us.
It seems that once a neighborhood gets so bad, it seems that the process in the City is, you run a neighborhood into the ground until it gets so bad that it becomes a wasteland, and then you build it up. We want to preserve our neighborhood as it is but integrated as it is also, but we don't people moving in like the people I mentioned, without any education that put the washer on their front porch, and that's how they do the washing. This is ridiculous.
We hear your comments and thank you for them, but that does not mean that that's the Section 8 program. 378 RESOLUTION 970558
People who don't know how to live can get in that condition for many reasons, but that does not necessarily mean they are Section 8 people.
Well, this hearing is about Section 8. This hearing is about Section 8, so --
Also, Section 8 affects everybody, Section 8 and non-Section 8. You see the predecessor to a house going to hell in a hand basket, so to speak, when some speculator buys it, he rents it Section 8, he scares people around on both sides, they move away, then he buys their houses --
Well, I have the proof in our files at home. If I had realized you had wanted them it, I would have brought the boxes with me. 379 RESOLUTION 970558
We thank you for your testimony, sir, but we can respectfully disagree.
Councilmen Ortiz, Blackwell and Kenney, my name is Don DeMarco, and I'm here on behalf of Open Fund for the Future of Philadelphia, which is a program of funds for an open society. You may know us in part for our intentional integrationist newsletter that you may have received from time to time. The Philadelphia City Administration's call for moving Section 8 tenants, mostly non-white out of scattered-site housing of their own locational choice and into large-scale developments designated by the City will be opposed by Open Fund for the Future of Philadelphia. Mayor Rendell's administration, and specifically, John Kromer, Philadelphia's Director of the Office of Housing and Community Development, were put on notice November 14, 1997, to publicly and without reservation permanently abandon all clustering plans or risk enforcement 380 RESOLUTION 970558 action. "Open," cofounded in 1975 by civil rights legend, James Farmer, and recently-deceased pioneer pro-integrative developer, Morris Milgram, is based in the City. Its longtime methods of operation have included pro-integrative service and mortgage incentives. Its history has not been one of confrontation or enforcement actions. Open's local project, Fund for the Future of Philadelphia, has engaged the support of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, and the Public Interest Law Center of Philadelphia, which had issued a legal opinion detailing applicable fair-housing law, and I have a copy of that opinion to distribute to you. The opinion concludes, for the foregoing reasons, we conclude that Philadelphia's proposal to cluster Section 8 certificate holders in designated housing projects would be illegal under the Fair Housing Act and other civil rights statutes. One, if the designated multi-unit buildings selected are large complexes inhabited 381 RESOLUTION 970558 cheaply by Section 8 residents and other poor families; or Two, if the buildings are chiefly located in minority neighborhoods of Philadelphia. And what will be your bet that it would be other than that? Mayor Rendell and Council President Street and other members of the Public Housing Authority operate Section 8, including its scattered-site variety. PHA has displaced well-qualified Section 8 applicants in order to give priority to the homeless, many of whom do have some problems. And some of those problems, in fact, make them questionable neighbors. Displacing qualified people is a perversion of the program's intent, which was to give locational choice to persons qualifying for public housing assistance, who are prepared to be proper neighbors. Neighbors of Section 8 tenants and neighbors of African Americans misidentified as Section 8 tenants simply because they've rented outside the ghetto are now up in arms. The City's 382 RESOLUTION 970558 neighborhoods are re-earning their reputations for racism; and the City government, for ineptitude. Parachuting ill-prepared people into neighborhoods is bad policy, but to make another egregious error by clustering -- that is, segregating Section 8 tenements controlled by favored developers -- is not the answer. Using Section 8 for proper purpose is the answer. Pressure from neighborhood activists crying, "NIMBY" (not in my backyard) does not justify segregated practices. Fix scattered-site Section 8; don't use it to fuel Philly apartheid. Here are copies of my statements, copies of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund legal opinion, as well as copies of "The Intentional Integrationist," which includes some reference to this segregative planning by the City agency.
Thank you very much for your testimony. Just two questions. It's my understanding that your position is that you are staunchly opposed to the clustering aspect of what's been -- I guess it's not even formally announced yet, but it's being reported in the paper as being the 383 RESOLUTION 970558 Administration's preference. But you are also opposed to, or at least find fault with the non-prepared formerly homeless person getting preference over those who have qualified and are waiting on the waiting list today. Is that correct?
That's not only correct, but I would suggest to you that putting ill-prepared people in scattered-site Section 8 units is perhaps a device in order to cluster Section 8, to whip up antagonism in the City's neighborhoods so that the Section 8 certificates can be put into the hands of the larger landlords who, indeed, are the ones, in a number of instances, getting rents that are above the market rate. It's not the scattered-site people who are reaping those benefits in the main. So that what's proposed here actually aggravates what the City has created for itself. There are better jobs that can be done, and I have talked to people who have an investment in the homeless programs and the use of the Section 8 program. They have acknowledged to me that there are more than a few people who are parachuted out 384 RESOLUTION 970558 into Section 8 housing without the necessary preparation. So I'm not denying that, and I don't think you have to deny that in order to take the position that clustering is segregative, and segregative action by government is unlawful. And CDBG funds and other dollars that come to the City may have a cloud put over them if the City goes ahead with this program.
I'm just gathering this from your testimony, but do you believe that that process of parachuting quote/unquote people into communities isolated is done intentionally?
I think that it's done neglectfully. I think it's done knowingly. I think it's done recognizing that there will be unhappy consequences. I think it's done without taking the effort that's necessary in order to rectify the problem. And now, instead of rectifying the problem, we're going to compound it by segregating people in large complexes. So we have one mistake which is going to be aggravated by another mistake. And this second make will not be 385 RESOLUTION 970558 tolerated by Future or Open.
I ask this following question because I was curious as to what you're experience has been, good and bad, with respect to the Section 8 program one way or the other. What section of the City do you live in?
I happen to live in the northwest. And to the extent that I have experience --
Yeah. It's not that much in the neighborhood where I live. For the most part, I hear --
That you know of, in all fairness. Not to interrupt you but --
The vast majority of tenants are decent people and you don't even know they're there.
And you wouldn't even know the difference between them and -- 386 RESOLUTION 970558
Exactly. And there are people of all hues, even though overall most of the Section 8 tenants are people of color. And in most instances, I think there's not necessarily a problem. In some instances, there are. Those problems are being used in order to contort a whole program into a segregationist scheme.
Okay, thank you. Council Members, do you have any questions for these witnesses? (No questions from the Council Members.)
Are there representatives of the Housing Association? I'm sorry, sir, we have one more witness before you. Mr. Lockey, please come forward. (Mr. Lockey comes forward.)
Good afternoon. Thank you for waiting. Please identify yourself 387 RESOLUTION 970558 for the record.
Thank you very much. My name is Wade H. Lockey. I live at 4808 Disston Street, in Philadelphia. What happened in me is, I moved into this apartment complex of, oh, six apartments. And when I moved in, I had a different landlord, and he made me show him my latest bank statement, and I had to give him the name -- or the phone number where I lived -- I mean, where I worked, for a confirmation of my income. In the meantime, he eventually sold the apartment building to a very big real estate company in Philadelphia. And I didn't think anything of it. I met my new landlord and, you know, I didn't think anything of it. But over a period of time, what had happened was, I noticed there was a difference in tenants. " In other words, they had problems when they came. And I said, Geez, it looks like they just liberated themselves from their parents, and this is their first apartment. And there was all 388 RESOLUTION 970558 kinds of stuff like a guy coming in in the 3 morning to see his girlfriend, they had their kids, and so on. And there was a lot of violence and threats and noise. Well, I was hoping to not have to get involved in that. One time I did refer a young lady to a place to get her food for her children, and so on. And so what happened is, eventually there was a guy that became -- and I have to emphasize this, everybody in this case was white. Let me tell you. It has nothing to do with religion -- or race. And so this guy moved in next door to me, and I had two other tenants before that and I never had a problem. I was engaged in my work, which is computer technology, and I was hardly ever home, because I was always busy. Well, anyhow, this guy comes in next door, and he suddenly -- I noticed that he had a lot of visitors. Well, we had a lot of visitors. We had a coffee house open on Torresdale Avenue. I live up on Tacony, and he had about 17 different guys in 17 different nights. 389 RESOLUTION 970558 And I said, Well, so that's his life style. Don't worry about him, just say hello, you know, and all that. Well, he did a lot of other things that made me very suspicious of the fact that he was not a compatible neighbor. Well, I tried not to pay attention to him, just wave to him, how ya doing and all that. Well, it didn't work out well, I eventually had to retire from my job. I had to be home every day, and this guy started to torture me, and I thought, Why would he torture me? I never bothered him. Every day there was something new. There was a lot of problems when I was walking my dog and, you know, all kinds of nonsense like that. Then he eventually -- well, I had to say I felt that he was a homosexual. Okay, that's his life style. Then moved in a lesbian, and they started to take the property over. And he started to be like, I'm in charge. He rubbed it into me. I said, have a one-year extension on my lease. Well, in the meantime, in November of 390 RESOLUTION 970558 1996, I was coming out of my apartment. Our apartments are like four feet apart on the side of the building, and he punched me in the face five times. Well, I did go to the 15th District and I made a record of it. Well, I never had a -- I never bothered with the guy because I didn't care. Well, anyhow, what happened was, the landlord eventually moved all these other people in, with all their problems. And one night -- I mean, I did meet some of the young people that he moved in. And one night I came home, and this is like -- well, you figure the hearing is going to be December the 17th, so it couldn't be too far away. And these two young men who -- they moved in with their girlfriends. I checked with the landlord, and he said, Oh, I only have girls registered. They moved in with their girlfriends, and they had given me like, you know, like sad stories like, Geez, I'm in between my job and all that, you know. So, I was like, Oh, okay here's a twenty-dollar bill for rent, you know, and never got my money back never expecting to get it back.
391 RESOLUTION 970558 So one night, they met me at the curb when I was coming home, and it was o'clock at 4 night. It's a matter of record, by the way, 5 police record. 6 And they said, We want you to take us 7 somewhere. I said I'm not taking anybody 8 anywhere. I gave you guys 20 bucks apiece and I 9 told you, on the basis of that, don't bother me anymore because I know people, you know, bother you if you're easy, they'll bother you more. Well, anyhow, as I got out of my truck with my dog, which I had a German Sheppard which I've always had 'em, and they started to beat me to the ground and threatened my life. And as I tried to make it to my apartment to call 9-1-1, which Frank Rizzo says it's more like Dial-A-Prayer, and he's right, 'cause it was, and it took me a week to get detectives out. And I was beaten three or four times to the ground. A young man did come to my rescue and so on. And they tried to grab my wallet, and they lived in the apartment building. That's what got me. And, eventually, after five or six days, the 392 RESOLUTION 970558 police did arrest them, and they are being held for trial today. But here's a case where people who moved in, and they were Section 8, and I'll tell you how I know they were Section 8. What happened was, the landlord must have learned his lesson, because two days after this happened and the detectives called him and everything, there was nobody in the apartment house. And to this day nobody, there's nobody there but me. He cleaned everybody out, the landlord did, even the guy who just tortured the hell out of me next door to me, he didn't have anything to do with it as far as I know other than the fact that he would like carry tales, you know, which I had no time for because I was engaged in my own profession. And everybody is cleaned out of the place. I don't know what the landlord is going to do about it. I have no heat to this day, even though I pay my rent and --
My point? Well, you heard 393 RESOLUTION 970558 my point. It's a bunch of people imported in there under Section 8. And I happened to see a lot of the mail that was in the vestibule there from Section 8 government asking to inspect the property and so on. But all this -- what happened was, my landlord would just sit there and he would call Section 8 anytime he wanted a tenant, and I'm the only legitimate person there that ever pays regular rent and was there even before the landlord. So, in other words, I have been assaulted three times by the tenants, including an attempted robbery. That's my point.
Okay, well, I saw you at the law enforcement meeting we had up at Illona Keller's restaurant.
And you know what happened since then? I asked, in front of the microphone, which you might remember, I asked Richard Zappelli to break up a crack house one block from where I lived. And guess what? The guy was evicted. I have to give Richard Zappelli credit. And guess where the crack guy ended up? In my basement, in my basement. If he knew that I was testifying here tonight, my life would be on the line. Do you understand?
What happened? That's what happens with Section 8. It's a lot of crap. And I want it the hell out and I mean it.
Thank you, sir, appreciate it. Tony Lewis. 395 RESOLUTION 970558
Good evening. My name is Anthony Lewis, and I'm Managing Director of the Housing Association of Philadelphia.
And I want to thank you for the opportunity to do this. I've submitted the full testimony for submission included in the report, and I won't spend a lot of time repeating it 'cause it's all been said today, but I just wanted it to be clear that the Association is opposed to any plan that explicitly talks about designating zones for people. The only other point that I wanted to say is that whatever happens with this, we need to put it to bed quickly. And, as I pointed out in my testimony, I've talked to people in New York, Chicago, Washington D.C., and this is becoming an issue. And regardless of how we want it to look, it's being translated as a race issue across the country, and it's not the kind of national 396 RESOLUTION 970558 publicity that we need in the City of Philadelphia, that government officials in Philadelphia are trying to develop a designated area for the minorities in the City of Philadelphia. I talked to John White before he left, and suggested to him that we were prepared at the Housing Association to provide some housing counseling to the public housing tenants who are under the Section 8 program, that clearly -- no 12 one will question the merits of the program, but clearly, no one can question that there are some problems in the administration of the program. But we think this is the wrong solution, that we think the solution is obviously some education, we think it's some counseling. We think it's conflict resolution, and we think that it's diversity training for the existing residents. But I believe that the problem can be resolved, and the Housing Association wants to go on record as being available to assist in any way we can to bring a conclusion -- an amicable solution to this for all the people involved. 397 RESOLUTION 970558
Thank you very much. Your testimony will be totally incorporated into the record.
I think we have some other testimony that will be incorporated into the record. Thank you, Tony.
Don't worry about it. We've been here since very early on, and we waited for you, I want you to know. And Jim Kenney and Jannie Blackwell and I said we're not leaving until Tony Lewis comes here to testify, okay?
Okay. Those papers are supposed to be included into the record, okay? , right here, where we expect to see at that point the representatives of the Administration, PHA and OHCD. ) - - - WRITTEN TESTIMONY ADDED TO RECORD, PER C. ORTIZ: 1. From Phila. Health Managment Corp. (PHMC) Testimony to Joint Committee on Law and Government and Licenses and Inspections, November 18, 1997, Elaine R. Fox, Vice President, Specialized Health Services, Philadelphia Health Management Corporation. Recent articles and editorials in Philadelphia newspapers have described a host of community problems associated with Section 8 families, the solution of which appears to be to limit availability of certificates -- and, in particular -- to homeless families. Section 8 housing, however, allows disadvantaged Philadelphia residents to live in affordable housing throughout our community. The crisis in affordability of housing has left many Philadelphians with few options for housing. PHMC, a nonprofit public health 399 RESOLUTION 970558 corporation established in 1973, has worked on addressing issues of homelessness for nearly 4 years. PHMC's research first identified the scope 5 of the problem in Philadelphia and led to the 6 development of a number of programs which provide 7 health care and social work services to homeless 8 people on the street, in day programs, and in 9 shelters. 10 Of particular note is PHMC's homeless families initiative, developed in the mid-80's, which demonstrated the effectiveness of intensive case management provided post-shelter, which helped homeless families maintain their homes, and families and become self-sufficient. By proving that these services were essential and effective, this program, funded by the United Way of Southeastern Pennsylvania, served as a model for many programs for the homeless. Over the last ten years, we have provided intensive case management services to formerly homeless families moving into transitional housing throughout the City. Research has shown that because of subsistence living and family disruption, formerly homeless 400 RESOLUTION 970558 families often need help in learning skills necessary for independence. In fact, few of the families had ever lived independently or were responsible for rent; therefore, learning "life skills" is essential to their stability. Parents often lack skills necessary for effective child-rearing. For families leaving the condition of homelessness and attempting to live in the community, case management services are essential in assisting families to break the cycle of homelessness and become self-sufficient. Through regular home visits -- usually over the course of a year -- and frequent telephone contact, our case managers help families maintain their homes, develop parenting skills and acquire skills necessary for self-sufficiency. Without these services, families are inadequately prepared for caring for their homes and families and are in danger of becoming homeless again. Because of a recent increase in the number of Section 8 certificates, hundreds of families are bypassing transitional housing as a temporary housing option and moving directly from 401 RESOLUTION 970558 shelter into Section 8 housing. In fact, for the City's fiscal year July - June 30, 1997, over 850 homeless families moved into Section 8 directly from shelter or after spending a very short time in transitional housing. These families often spent a short time in shelter and face the same serious issues as described above. Yet, there are very limited social services available to them. Our work has shown clear lasting effects as a result of the provision of aftercare services to families, which continue after families move from shelter into housing. The answer to Section 8 problems is not to limit families' movement into communities, but to assure sufficient access to services which can help them move to greater independence.
In addition to counseling and case management, our staff provide in-deputy education on budgeting and life skills. Topics have included keeping your home organized, getting along with your neighbors, appropriate discipline of children, interpersonal skills, knowing the community. We also take steps to assure that families are connected to health 402 RESOLUTION 970558 care and that children are enrolled in schools. We would welcome the opportunity to meet with you to provide additional information on the clients with whom we work and the services we provide. - - - 2. Letter from Milton Karabell: I own a property in which I have one Section 8 tenant, and I wish to object to the comments made by the Mayor and other parties of self-interest who claim the program is a failure. The Mayor is quoted as saying that since there are no Section 8 tenants in Chestnut Hill, the program failed. I didn't know that was an aim of the program. I thought it was to get housing for people who needed it. The Mayor's as "Czar" wants to put Section 8 tenants in 50-unit buildings. We are in the process of tearing down buildings which were built on this theory. A small warehouse is still a warehouse, but it would be interesting to see the Mayor and Czar Kromer put up such a building in a Chestnut Hill; or better yet, in East Falls, where the Mayor lives. 403 RESOLUTION 970558 The pressure to do away with scattered housing seems to come primarily from politicians and groups representative of neighborhoods where racial tension is and has been a problem. These opponents should examine their personal values, seek ways to improve the social services which are available to the tenants, and organize programs to help reduce tensions rather than propose seclusionary, racially-motivated policies which are little more than a new, veiled version of segregation. There have also been questions raised about the rent levels. My property is inspected every year, and I am held to the strictest interpretation of the housing code. Moreover, a change of tenants almost always entails at least a three-month vacancy because of the re-inspection and approval process. It is an attractive rent, yes, it is, but it is probably less than a third of what it costs the Housing Authority to provide a three-bedroom apartment in a "project" of theirs. My tenants have a secure private entrance and exclusive use of a very large 404 RESOLUTION 970558 fenced-in backyard. The property is a half block from an elementary school and two blocks from a high school. The neighborhood is integrated and problem-free. Does this sounds like a failure to you? Sincerely, I. Milton Karabell. - - - 3. Testimony prepared by Anthony Lewis, Managing Director, Housing Association of Delaware Valley. To the Honorable City Council of Philadelphia: My name is Anthony Lewis. I am the Managing Director of the Housing Association of Delaware Valley. The Association, a United Way agency, is the nation's oldest housing advocacy organization, founded here in Philadelphia in 1909. The mission at this time, as it is today, is to secure decent housing for all, in a suitable environment and the elimination of racism and discrimination in housing. To reach this goal, the Association acts as a watchdog of government programs and policies, advocates of housing alternatives for low- and moderate-income families, conducts 405 RESOLUTION 970558 research, engages in educational activities, provides technical assistance to organizations and groups, and operates program to assist low-income families to gain, maintain or retain decent, affordable housing. Throughout its long history, the Association has worked to improve opportunities for all citizens, with certain attention directed to the poor, racial and ethnic minorities, those who do not speak English, and the disabled, children, and the aged. The Section 8 program is a federally-funded rent subsidy program for low-income families.
The concept for the program actually grew out of the 1967 National Advisory commission on Civil Rights (Kerner Commission), which was formed after the nation was torn apart by riots in Cities. The proposal was to 20 specifically expand the rent supplement program to 21 permit use of subsidies for existing housing, thus 22 increasing the reach of the program to all 23 segments. I do not believe that anyone here can question the merits or the success of the program. 406 RESOLUTION 970558 In Philadelphia, tens of thousands of low-income struggling families have benefited, and many have moved on to private ownership and independence as a result of the Section 8 program. In Philadelphia, there is low-income housing crisis. As bad as it is, the Section 8 program has meant a great deal in keeping that crisis from being even greater. That program has brought millions of federal dollars to a sagging real estate market and provided jobs and other extended economics benefit for the local economy. The Association is here today to explicitly oppose any legislation or plan which attempts to cluster Section 8 certificate holders in "designated zones" or deny low-income citizens the freedom of choice in neighborhoods and housing. While the much talked about proposed cluster plan lacked any specific detail, as reported in the media thus far, we believe that it would violate Title VIII of the Federal Fair Housing Act, the Pennsylvania Human Relations Act, and the Philadelphia Fair Practices Ordinance. We believe that the proposal violates the Federal 407 RESOLUTION 970558 Department of Housing and Urban Development's own statutes with regards to fair housing and discrimination. At a minimum, it is clearly in conflict with current programs and policies with regards to increasing the housing opportunities of low-income families and the deconcentration of the poor in ghetto-type living arrangements. We believe as well that this proposal to cluster Section 8 certificate holders raises other Constitutional questions. While I am not here today to label anyone, and I do believe that this proposal has grown out of an attempt to respond to some few documentable constituent complains, the appearance has unquestionably become one of race and class. The fact that the complaints have come from whites in largely white neighborhoods about people of color moving into those traditionally white neighborhoods lends itself to that argument. However, to label thousands of law-abiding, decent citizens as "bad" neighbors and attempt to abridge their rights because of problems caused by few is wrong. 408 RESOLUTION 970558 From our perspective, there is no 3 question that problems do exist with the operation of the Section 8 program, but it is equally unquestionable that the recommended solution is wrong. Last month, in a letter to then Philadelphia Housing Authority (PHA) Director, John White, the Association indicated that there are some problems in the administration of that program and offered, with the approval of the Office of Housing and Community Development, to provide housing counseling assistance and conflict resolution and design a component for Section 8 families moving into traditionally white neighborhoods or neighborhoods going through racial and ethnic transition, at no cost to PHA. Mr. White embraced the idea, but did not have the time to implement such a project before his leaving the agency. I have spoken with Fred Purnell, the acting director, and he too has indicated his interest in resolving any disorders in the program and indicated his intent to include the Association and others in further dialogue after he has had time for internal review. Whatever we do, may I suggest that it 409 RESOLUTION 970558 be done expeditiously. , and Chicago. All have couched the proposed plan in racial terms. " This is not the national image that we need.
The longer this conflict is allowed to go unresolved, the more of this kind of negative publicity that we can expect. One suggestion would be the development of a joint community-government task force which includes representatives of Section 8 certificate holders as well as residents of areas where conflicts exist. The Association stands willing to assist in any way we can to bring a fair, legal and equitable resolution to this issue. I want to thank this honorable body for this opportunity to briefly express our views. - - - 410 C E R T I F I C A T E WE HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, November 1997 were 8 reported and accurately by me, and that this is a 9 correct transcript of same. 10 11 12 RE: PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE COMMITTEES ON 13 LAW ENFORCEMENT AND GOVERNMENT, and 14 LICENSING & INSPECTIONS 15 16 17 18 ----------------------------------, DEBRA A. WHITEHEAD, RPR and __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, RPR