Excuse the depth of my feelings, but it is a deep feeling because you've interfered with the historic role in Philadelphia where the community plays a very active role, the whole community, not a committee, but anybody in the City at any time can go to a Board of Education meeting and express their views, and you've taken that away, and you think we ought to sit back quietly and say, Let's forget about education. 218 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS
Councilman Cohen, Councilman Cohen, why don't you give Mr. Nevels an opportunity to respond.
I would like to. And forgive me for being somewhat uncontrolled, but I feel this issue very, very deeply, because your commission is taking in my view control of public education from the people of the City of Philadelphia, and it's wrong that you're doing that. Thank you.
The only comment that I would make, Madam President, is that this is not a newly-created problem; this is one that's been in the making since I arrived here to go to the University of Pennsylvania back in 1974. It is also clear that this commission is not about exclusively cost-cutting. I don't think that anybody in the room would agree that we can maintain the status quo, that nothing can be changed 219 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS here. I believe, and have talked with members of this body who believe, that changes are necessary in the way that business gets done at the School District. This commission is about that. We are also about the issues of certified teachers -- that is near and dear to Sandy Glenn's heart. Dr. Gallagher is well experienced in -- and given his background in respective test measurements and is a distinguished educator. Mike Masch and Dan Whelan, we are all committed to education and educating children first and foremost. If we don't get this ship righted financially, though, everything else falls to the wayside. We are first and foremost about children.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you, Madam President. Before I ask my questions, I'd like to introduce a special guest that we have here today in City Council. You want to stand or do you want to come forward? We have Bethany Watson, who is a graduate 220 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS of our Philadelphia public school system, graduate from Central High School. (Applause.)
Congratulations. Bethany is presently Miss Philadelphia. I saw you on TV Saturday night. (Applause.)
And she's a graduate of Pennsylvania State, works at Prudential Securities. And her major was finance, and she's a stock broker.
I would just like to say that I'm honored to meet everyone here today. I'm a native Philadelphian; I was born and raised just some blocks from here. And, of course, I graduated out of the Philadelphia public school system, and I hope that everything turns out. I just also want to offer my services from the Miss Philadelphia organization to all of Councilmembers here today. If there's anything I that can do for our community -- my platform is, 221 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS actually, overcoming intolerance and promoting cultural diversity within our schools, so what I really wanted to do during my reign is go to as many schools as possible and talk to the children accepting other cultures and promoting diversity, overcoming intolerance, hate, and bigotry. And if we can get to the kids now, September 11th will never happen again. And that's my platform. But if there's any other issue that I could speak about, please let me know. I'll make sure that the Miss Philadelphia organization business cards get passed out so that all of you will have my contact information. And, again, it's just been a great honor today. Thank you very much. (Applause.)
Mr. Nevels, I just wanted to ask you questions regarding the EMO and that whole structure. Now, help me out a little bit here. The EMO will then hire -- the EMO will be contracted to do management, and then they will hire the community 222 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS partnerships group?
what will happen is, EMOs, the educational management organizations, will be identified, and they can include nonprofits, including universities or colleges and also private vendors. Then let's think of this in the middle, and there will be identified schools. Then there will be community groups that will be identified. There will be certain partnership schools that will operate in tandem with community groups. Once those community groups and EMOs are combined together to work together, they will function in terms of that school's governance in addition to their having input from the advisory group, what we called the "Educational Reform Advisory Committee" in that geographical academic area.
Okay. So we could potentially have five to ten EMOs, correct?
Yes. At the present time, I believe that there were -- (Addressing colleagues.) How many were there? 223 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS Yes, six made the cut. There will be as many as six.
There is a list, and I'd be delighted to provide that to you. I don't have it handy with me.
Okay. All right, now -- and basically their job is going to be to manage, to manage the schools?
Okay. And they may hire -- and they may hire another group to actually do the implementation or --
No, no, no. The educational management organization, think of that, if you would, as someone coming in to run a school with a curriculum, with teachers, and the full educational 224 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS complement that you would have in a school building providing education.
Okay. So one of the highlights of the curriculum renewal plan is to have a core curriculum; is that not correct? Well, how does this fit in with the EMOs? I mean, are they going to be required to use this community -- I mean, curriculum renewal plan? 'Cause what I see is if they're not, then it sounds like we're going to be right in the same situation we're in today if somebody transfers from one school to another school that's being run by a different EMO and so on and so forth. I just need to understand how this is all going to work and how it's going to help our children.
Councilwoman Miller, that is a very valid concern. As I stated in my formal remarks this morning, it is our hope and expectation that whoever comes in either as a consultant or to run portions of schools understands that this is a curriculum renewal plan that current staff worked on, and it was endorsed by and accepted by the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania. 225 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS The curriculum renewal plan was made available to people who responded to the RFPs.
But they're not exactly required to do it; is this the point here?
One of the things that the Commission has been discussing, and will have to determine, is making that a requirement along with some other requirements that would be appropriate to any outside vendor that comes in to serve the School District.
Okay. Because, you know, that leads me to wonder, you know, what is the reading program that we're going to use here? I mean, part of this whole process has been research and the collection of data and looking at best practices.
And if we now let people come in and start to do exactly what they want to do, we have wasted a lot of money and a lot of time, and I don't think we'll be doing our children any kind of justice just having anybody come right on in. So I just want to keep on -- I want to be 226 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS kept very aware of what people are going to be using, and I'm hoping that they will, if this is going to be adopted and people think that it's good, then that's what they should be using, unless something else better comes along.
Okay. And student achievement has been improving since 1996, as was indicated earlier. So how will the Commission make sure that in evaluating EMOs, that you're not using the data, or that they're not using the data, that's already been developed and gathered in terms of improvement? They will actually start to be assessed, I would think, if they're going to come in and September and begin to run schools in September, so you'll be looking at their achievement from September forward, or what? Who will monitor them, who will evaluate them, the EMOs; will the SRC?
The SRC will evaluate the EMOs, and specifically, as part of the EMOs contracts, there will be accountability standards that will be prepared by professional organizations 227 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS that do that sort of thing. In addition, system-wide, we are going to look to having a measurement expert look at how we are operating system-wide and, of course, our very able internal staff that does that sort of work as well.
Are the EMOs addressing the special-needs students in their proposals? I keep hearing that special ed. is not being included. I heard Councilwoman Tasco ask the question earlier, when I was downstairs, about creaming, and that would be a concern of mine too. What are we going to do with our special ed.?
I understand the sensitivity of that. The RFQs do address that, and we have every expectation that all of our children will be educated, including those having special needs.
Okay. I have one other question at this time, Madam President. According to policy, all administrators must have a letter of eligibility to be able to rate 228 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS principals, and principals must have an administrative certification to aid teachers. Who will ensure that the administrators and that the EMOs will have people in place that are certified to rate principals, to rate teachers? Is that a requirement? Is that something that had to be addressed in the RFQ?
That is addressed in the RFQ. And as I mentioned, we will provide you with copies of the RFQs or the form of RFQ, but that is a provision that is required and will be -- as part of the contract documentation, will be a necessary ingredient as well.
Okay. And I'll come back to this question later, but have we decided yet on how many distressed schools from the 176 that's in the empowerment list? How many is it; is it 100, is it 80, is it 60?
60, okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you The Chair now recognizes Councilman 229 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS Kenney.
Thank you, Madam President. Just to go back a moment for a quick moment on the Latin issue. In 1972 -- and I don't want to debate the decision you guys have made, or may make, as a result of this, but in 1972, when Mr. Doosey and I entered St. Joe's Prep the same year, I doubt that either of us would have ever chosen to take Latin. I think part of one of the concerns that I have is that we seem to -- not necessarily you guys right now because you just got into this, but educationally, over the last 10, 15 years, we've allowed people to make choices that they're not capable of making. So when we're getting rid of Latin teachers because we're downsizing the Latin department because children have decided that they're not taking it, it kind of speaks to the problems we have in the first place. I didn't have a choice. I took it, I had to take it for three years, and it wasn't my choice, and I don't know anybody who speaks Latin. I can't 230 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS have a conversation in Latin with anyone, 'cause they're all dead. But the point is that it made your mind work in a way that made you critically think about other things -- algebra, Latin, basic mind-opening subjects. I think part of the problems is that we have allowed children to make those decisions about what they will and not take and, therefore, wind up in the kind of curriculum and academic environment that we have today, because we're trying to play to an audience who's still immature enough to make a decision for themselves. So that's my comment on that, and I don't know, Jim, if you agree or not, but I don't think you would have taken Latin either, entering as a freshman.
Veni, vidi, vici. 231 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS
Amo, amas, amat, amare -- but you got my point. My point is that we should be telling and explaining to these children what they need to take to expand their minds and to develop, not allow them to make those decisions, 'cause I think because they have chosen not to take it, we get rid of the program, which is really disheartening.
If I could address that issue, not speaking about Latin, but about world language in general. As I said in my remarks, last year, we did increase the graduation expectations, and we did add a component that every student must now take two years of a world language. That was not the case before. So we're not saying it has to be Latin, but it does have to be two years of a world language, and now our challenge, our ongoing challenge, is finding a supply of world-language teachers so that we can adhere to that level of rigor.
Well, perhaps if we reduce the wage tax, we'll be able to attract a few 232 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS more of those teachers to come and work in Philadelphia. The Latin requirement is just something that I think -- we need to get back to try to define a curriculum for children that does expand their minds and make them think critically and structures their brain in a way that makes them successful. I think we've, in many ways, succumbed to what's popular and allowing children to make decisions for themselves about what they wear, about the way they act, about what they study, about what they don't study. I mean, every successful prep school in this region requires Latin; that should tell you something. And I think that that's what we're competing against -- the La Salles and the Malverns and the St. Joe's Preps and the Mary of Mercies, and if that's what we're competing against for productive students -- not that we can't compete, 'cause we can. With schools like Central and Masterman and Greenfield and schools like that, we can compete, but I think unless we have it all through the curriculum, those expectations are never -- we'll never create expectations for these 233 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS kids to meet The question I want to go to may be in reverse of this Latin issue. I've been here ten years and I've asked this question every single year for the ten years I've been here. I believe that there are all types of students in the system. Some students are academically motivated towards a college curriculum, and everyone who wants to go to college should have an opportunity to go to regardless of income, regardless of personal status. But there are a group of children, my brother being one of them, who went to St. Joe's Prep also, but decided to become a (indiscernible) instead of going and studying history at LaSalle or political science, where I went. What do we do about voc. ed.? In my opinion, and you may disagree with me, vocational education in the past ten years has taken a back seat to everything else, and what upsets me about that is that there are children in our system that are bored, that don't -- aren't challenged by the academic curriculum, but would flourish and prosper and afford and be able to feed themselves and their family if they could fix the electronic condition of 234 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS a car, if they build a cabinet, if they could go and do electronic work go, if they could go and work with their hands. I think we would be producing both academically-challenged kids, kids who want to meet an academic challenge, but also kids who want to work with their hands and become a tradesperson. Why has voc. ed. seemingly, at least in my view, taken a major back seat when the graduates of the voc. ed. program more often than not will have a way to feed themselves and their families as opposed to those who graduate college with a history degree?
I think that philosophically and, unfortunately, this has been the case of very often voc. ed. has been perceived as the dumping ground for students; where, if you really have a rigorous vocational education program, with shops that have industry-standard equipment, that students who go into vocational education have to be among your brightest students. In fact, I had almost an hour-long debate on Saturday at Edison High School with some automotive when I attended a program we had their 235 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS four our technical-education teachers, and this auto motive instructor was saying that he needs students who read, he needs students to be able to read not on grade level, but above grade level, because the technical documents that auto mechanic students have to read now are very complex, that the kinds of equipment that they have to work is so technical until it's not just -- as we all know, it's not just turning screws; you have to be able to work very complex computers in order to do very basic automotive maintenance functions. So I think as part of the need to help society understand that vocational ed. should not be perceived as a dumping ground, that you have to be extremely bright and capable, with a high level of reading skills if you're going to do well in a career in a technical-education program.
Well, what do we anticipate doing about raising the level of the reputation of voc. ed.? because what's happened -- again, you are the academic officer, so you're not making necessarily the financial decisions on where the money goes; you're dealing with what you're given. 236 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS
The point is that I think that under Dr. Hornbeck, for example, voc. ed. was looked down on as a dumping ground, as a place that was less than the same caliber as these others academically-oriented students. Doesn't it make more sense to invest more of our existing resources into getting kids ready for work and for mortgages and for raising families?
Yes. We actually are. And in our current restructuring over last summer, the Office of Curriculum and Instruction and Assessment, we actually have an office called "Career and Technical Education," where we have a staff of employees whose sole function is to upgrade not only the reputation and the status, but the perception of what vocational education -- now referred to as "career technical education" -- is. I think it has to do a lot with also continuing to remove that line between, This is academic work and this is handle work, because you can't separate it like that anymore; it all has to be high-calibre, challenging work so We have 237 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS standards around what career technical education should be, we have intensified our professional- development efforts around that. At the forum I just spoke to on Saturday at Edison High School, they had career technical- education teachers and principals from around the City in attendance, with a nationally prominent speaker to talk about the changes he has seen across the country.
What kind of outreach do we do within the comprehensive high schools now about children, boys and girls, looking at potentially shifting over to -- especially kids who seem in the classroom to be unattentive or perhaps distracted or unchallenged or not interested or motivated. Have we been able to do some outreach to see if we can't get them sparked in a different direction as opposed to simply having them drudge through a normal school day?
Well, I think part of what is needed -- and, again, I alluded to this earlier -- is really having the capacity at the high school level to have ongoing support for reading, because what we very often find is those students 238 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS who are turned off, who are inclined to be the students walking the hallway, if you really look at what their need is, they need to learn how to read. Because if you're sitting in a high school class and you can't read, you have to fake your way through your course work.
Well, I guess the question then is, how did they get to the high school class in the first place if they can't read through elementary and middle school?
Right. That is why we have benchmark grades of 4 and 8, that is why we have instituted more vigorous promotion standards at those grades so that students cannot just be passed on socially through social promotion.
I think that you can continue on. There are other members waiting. If you give a --
We've read a lot about discipline and we've seen a lot about the 239 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS discipline issues. At some point in time, do we not need some type of residential boarding facility for our young people that need to be removed from the general population of our student body because of the safety, the threat that they pose to people, whether they're deemed special-education students or whether they're not? But, you know, I've talked to principals in every level of this district, both in the middle schools and in the high schools, and if I ask them, how many kids in your school really cause you a problem? Of your 6, 700 or your 1,000 or your 1200, how many are really problems on a day-to-day basis? And the answer I normally get is 10 to 15, that 10 to 15 terrorize the school. Those 10 to 15, for whatever reason, whatever social reason or whatever; home situation or whatever; poverty issue or whatever; substance-abuse issue or whatever it is, it is disrupting the academic and educational opportunities of everyone else in the school, terrorizing the teachers, terrorizing the staff, and need to be removed -- not removed and thrown into the street, but removed and be made to go either 240 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS through court other or some other effort to a mandatory requirement for residential treatment, residential education, a way to get them out of their environment. When I look at Glenn Mills, for example, and I know it's a very expensive setting, but the work that's done there with extremely difficult problem children and young adults is phenomenal, the product that they turn out. Residential setting, out of their neighborhood, away from the dysfunctional family, in an environment with good academics, good nutrition, good health, good opportunities for athletics. To me, we need at some point in time, for their good and for the good of the system and its reputation -- or bad reputation at this point -- get them out of there. And I don't mean that in a kicking-them-out-the-door attitude, but a place where they can go and get a chance, because they're disrupting everyone else's day. And I never understood the "special education" label to begin with. I mean, I understand when a kid is challenged physically or there's a learning disability challenge, a hearing, 241 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS a sight, a physical disability, I understand all of that. But at some point in time, a person's a thug or they're not, and the thugs sometimes get labeled as "special ed." individuals, which gives them protections beyond anyone's rationale. And what do we do to change that wall or legal precedent that requires us to that, and what do we do about putting them somewhere where they can get -- and I'm not talking about sending them to Texas like we do with every other DHS problem that we have, but doing something in the region that makes sense, or on the residential side.
The scenario that you just pointed out is very complex. It is true that not all students needing special-ed. services are problematic, and not all problematic students need special-ed. services. However, with the current law as it is, we do have to ensure that we are following legal procedures before we label a kid one thing or another and that we give every child due process. I can agree 100 percent with what you said about the small percentage of students that 242 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS really do make the environment disruptive. During the three years when I was principal at Simon Gratz High School, if someone had said to me, you know, how many of your students really make life miserable? it would really be a very small number, a very small number.
And how sad is that that, that we are held hostage by a very small number. And, again, I'm not asking for a legal opinion, but what about the due-process rights of those kids in the classroom, of that teacher that has to put up with the potential of being assaulted or at least verbally abused on a regular basis? And I mean this rhetorically, but do they not have due-process rights also? And what do we do about changing the law to give us more ability to deal with these children? And, again, I want to reiterate, 'cause sometimes when I say things, it's taken as if I'm telling to throw them out in the street and get rid of them. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that we need in some way to move them out of that environment so that the rest of the kids, the majority of the kids, can 243 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS flourish, and they can have some opportunity to correct their lives or to get themselves back in some semblance of order. But to allow them -- and, again, I know you're not allowing them, but you feel that you're forced to allow them sometimes roam the halls, to disrupt the classrooms, to terrorize the school yard. It's just, I guess, unfathomable to me that we allow that to happen. I mean, what do we need to change it at the federal or state level to get those handcuffs off of us and on them, some of them?
Mr. Kenney, one of the things that was apparent yesterday as well is that there is that very serious concern with your counterpart deliberative body in Harrisburg. One of the things that you now, and I believe that we have talked about it, is the importance of this matter, and I believe that you know that we have made several things a priority. And Dan Whelan and I are focusing on an anti- disruption task force. What can be done on the federal law statute, obviously, is we can cajole our federal 244 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS legislators to make the change necessary in terms of the federal-governing law. We asked yesterday that the same thing happen with the State. But the other thing to keep in mind about this is our facilities like CEP and other longer- term residential facilities are also important, and they're important from the standpoint that they have to be viable, they have to be -- if you're going to have someone committed a felonious assault, there has to be that predictability. I did not realize and did know what the Boone School was, but when I talked to certain -- and I attempt to use the term graciously -- "old-timers," the fear of the Boone School was world -- (Indiscernible, laughter)
That's correct. So we see it as being necessary to have that predictable outcome. 245 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS In addition, we do have on the books the Student Code of Conduct, and in my opinion, it is not being enforced in a uniform manner. We're looking at that from our task force standpoint, and we're working also with some legislators from the Northeast in terms of doing some of the things we need to do. That's an area that I think you're going to see improvement on with this commission.
Does that include potentially more cooperation with the State's Victim Advocate Harvey Rice?
The story in the Inquirer was very disconcerting that school principals decide on their own basically whether or not to call in Mr. Rice or to look for his services, and it's up to them individually to make that decision, and that is not a consistent approach to this problem.
The first call that I made in terms of the constitution of the task force was Harvey Rice, and we're going to be working on this.
Thank you very much. 246 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS Thank you very much, Madam President.
Thank you. Dr. Farmbry, do we now know how many bilingual teachers we have?
I'm still getting the bilingual -- there's 236 bilingual teachers, but the actual question I think that you had is, for the 32 positions that we're talking about, which schools will be impacted? and I'm still waiting for that information. On the Latin question, there is a total of 238 and 8 teachers currently taking the Latin in the district, and the most recent school to drop the Latin program due to lack of interest was Frankford High School last year.
I do agree with my colleague. I don't think youngsters should have that choice.
I don't think a 13-year-old can make that decision that this is not for me.
Of course. 247 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS
I couldn't make any decision at on what color socks to where, let 4 alone what languages to take in school. So again, I 5 would -- 6
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think it should also be noted for the record that there are reports that many of the people at the Boone School were nervous that Councilman Kenney might actually end up attending there as well. (Laughter.)
Chairman Nevels, let me ask you some different questions. I've focused a fair amount on the financial side, and I have some 248 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS other questions in that area, but I'd like to shift to a different topic. First, from the SRC standpoint, what is the role of parents in determining the future and the educational opportunities for their children at their schools presently and going forward?
The third principle that the Commission embraced is treating parents as families. Currently, of course, there are the home-and-school councils and other associated organizations. What I would like to focus on is, going forward, what we plan to have in place in light of the changes that we are looking at, and I'm going to ask my colleague Sandy Glenn to outline again in general terms how we're going to have folks involved in that.
Councilman, I'd like to go directly to your specific question about how we see parents being involved in the future. One of the issues that the SRC is considering -- and I think we still have a significant amount of work to do -- is, we currently have informed school councils that are made up of 249 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS the principal, school staff, and parents. I believe that there are some schools where those councils are a very effective means for parental input. I think there are other schools where they do not function as they should. One of the things that we are looking to these education reform committees to do is to help us to work school by school in their area to develop meaningful and effective school councils. We, I believe, need to in the future review the composition and the charge of those councils and see where we can strengthen them and also, I think, make them more central to the, I guess, ongoing priorities of the school. So, again, that is a area we have identified as being critical, and we know that there are some forms, I think, that are worth replicating and some models that are worth replicating, but I think there are some areas that we want to modify.
Well, let me ask this question; it's a more specific question and directed at process. If in fact, there will be partnership schools or education management organizations or a 250 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS provider or a lead provider -- I think I've used most of the terms that I've come to understand recently in these various RFQs -- at the school level and whenever this list of, for the moment, news accounts indicate possibly 20, the Governor's plan I think was 60, there have even been discussions about possibly 100. If you're at "School X" and School X ends up on some list, or a series of schools in a particular area end up on a list, and somebody says, Well, we'd like to manage those schools or oversee those schools, whether it's one school or 12. What is the role of the parents of the children who attend that particular school? What is their specific and direct role, if any, in deciding whether that school will, in fact, become a part of someone's education management organization or someone's provider-related school or lead provider or any other terminology that you might want to use? What do they get to say or do about any of that?
Let me just speak to what we have reached consensus on as a body at this point which, again, I will admit, is a work in 251 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS progress, because it is not all decided. Currently what we have determined is that once the schools are identified, that the Commission would hold town meetings by area -- at this point it has not been agreed to do it by school but by area -- with the parents and other community members to receive their input, their comments about what potentially may happen at their school as well as for the SRC to lay out what the options are, as we see it to the extent that we are recommending these schools be handed over or managed by providers other than directly by the School District. So there would be that opportunity through the town meeting In addition to that, as the SRCs develop the RFP, the specific proposals that any EMO (educational management organization) will have to provide to the District, laying out what its plans are, explicit in that RFP has to be a parental engagement and community-involvement component to say how they will work beyond the times they are selected, how they will work; or fundamentally, I guess, in a more long-term fashion, with parents and with the community. So that is currently where we have 252 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS reached consensus, and that's what I can report at this point.
I understand. Suppose the parents, for whatever reason, after whatever the presentation is going to be, suppose the parents at that particular school decide that they don't want their school managed by "XYZ Entity?" Then what?
Well, I will say that at this point, the only alternative that has been identified is that parents will have the choice of attempting to enroll their student, their child in another school. There is not a formal part of the process for that outcome.
Well, I mean, doesn't that kind of create a situation -- I mean, is that literally kind of a take-it-or-leave-it situation? I mean, there must be another alternative between "Proposal X," you don't like it and so your next option -- and then we can talk about some of the mechanics of that -- I mean, given the timetable that we're on at the moment, I don't know how all of this will work. But, I mean, transfer to where, under 253 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS what circumstances? PH 36's had to be in back in November, unless you decide to change that particular process. I mean, we've obviously known each other for some time so, I mean, we're always going to be respectful with each other but, I mean, at best, maybe you're ready to go -- I'm not talking about you individually, but maybe the SRC is ready to go with some kind of roll-out of something in, what do you figure, May?
Okay, so let's say we're at May, the schools get on a list, providers come along, they've gone through the RFQ process, RFP, RF-whatever other letters you want to use of the alphabet. So schools, 60 schools, 100 19 schools, providers have been identified, they've 20 chopped up the universe, they start their -- what did you call it, "parental engagement community activism"?
They're having town meetings, you know, it's going wonderful in some 254 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS places, and it's a disaster in others, and there's mass rejection in various areas of whatever the idea is. I guess we could be talking 2, 3, 400 kids, however many parents times 2, 3, 500, 800, you're telling me that all of those people are -- then their option is to try to transfer their child sometime in the May-June time period for September?
Well, Councilman, I would have to say that I believe it would be foolhardy of the SRC to assume any plan would be successful without the cooperation, the involvement, the participation of parents and the community. So having said that, and not knowing -- because we have not gotten to that point in the process yet -- what the reaction would be, I do know I that -- I think we would be heading for disaster to think that we could force a solution on a school or a community that they do not have buy-in to. I can't say to you today that there has been a part of the process where we have figured out exactly what we would do there, but you need to understand that I believe -- I know myself and, I'm very sure, my colleagues are sensitive to that and understand that we don't need to set ourselves up 255 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS for failure. And if we are, say, disrespectful or insensitive to parents' or the communities' concerns, that's what we would be doing. So we need to figure out how we would respond and deal with that.
Well, how do you think you will assess or engage community buy-in? I mean, in many instances, at least through my experience -- I mean, the town meetings are wonderful for a variety of reasons. I mean, you know, I love a town meeting as much as the next person. In a town-meeting situation, people will bring a lot of stuff to the town meeting. Some have kids in schools, some don't, and unless you're going to make people either fill out a form or wear, you know, different-color hats or something, how do you know in a town-meeting environment whether the people person speaking has a child, five children, or never had a child in public school, but just basically wants to run their mouth and say whatever they want to say? And do you take that as either buy-in or opposition, or is there something more localized, more special for the actual parents? "Parent X," 256 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS their child is a registered, on-the-rolls, comes-to- school-every-day person. What I want to know is, for that citizen, that taxpayer, that parent, how do they access any of this in a way that someone has to actually seriously listen to them, hear what they're saying, and take their opinion in a way that says, We as a group of parents want to move in this particular direction or another direction. We'd like to do it in concert with the SRC, we may not want to do it with "Provider X," maybe we're thinking about "Provider Y," and we maybe don't want a provider at all and would like to stay with the program that the SRC can provide, obviously with all of the necessary educational components and a game plan that gets you to improvement. I mean, how do we do all of this?
If I may, Councilman, one of the things in the RFQs is, we ask the providers or the candidate-providers to give us a sense of how they have utilized and done the sort of community involvement and outreach that we're discussing. Obviously, one level of involvement and assessment comes from town meetings, but 257 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS additionally, one of the things that the Commission is looking at is an RFQ that has a component in it for what happens in respect of schools that you may manage, or will be about to manage, and how you plan to have outreach. Councilwoman Tasco asked earlier about what happens in the way of the community groups. One of the things that we've been grappling with, and we really started doing this last week late in the evening, was, how do you define a community group? There's a number of them out there freestanding.
Yes, we do. 258 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS But what we also know is, there are groups out there -- and this is why the community partnership model becomes very important in terms of what I said earlier, doing that matching of community groups with vendors and doing that outreach. We're going to monitor very closely what we're hearing from community groups about how they the given locality is responding to that solicitation.
Well, let me mention one thing, and I'll continue to take advantage of the Chair being distracted by Councilman Cohen. Along those lines -- and maybe I'll just kind of finish this with. I've obviously had a concern, and I think many other Councilmembers and certainly citizens and parents have had this concern for sometime. There was a news story about a week or so ago apparently following one of the Commission meetings, and part of it reads: "... and the Commission also weathered a barrage of complaints from community activists, some of whom requested that they allow parents to vote on whether their children's schools should be turned over to private managers. 259 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS "One of the Commission members told reporters that the panel would not abdicate its responsibility by allowing such voting. 'One of the things we have in the United States and Pennsylvania is a representative democracy. Representatives set the laws for it, set the criteria under which we do things, and that's how we're going to do it.'" Now, when I learned civics in about 4th grade or so, I thought that that meant that people who were being affected by something get to have a voice in what's being done. I'm not necessarily taking -- and I'm not going to take this even verbatim, I have no idea what the context was of the situation, and maybe a Commission member was a little harried at that moment. What I could take from that statement is, "We're in charge and you're going to do what we say and that's going to be the end of that discussion." I would tend not to think that the SRC would be adopting that kind of mindset, given that we've had all of this discussion today about partnership, and even the recent exchange has been about trying to support parents, encourage their involvement, try to get a sense from them of what's 260 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS going on. So I raise this issue, and you know as well that the Council took an action a while ago along these same lines. We don't need to get into the particulars of what that's all about, and it doesn't have to be exactly that way. I think the point that I'm trying to get across is, there has to be a mechanism that is clear, that is understandable, that can even be read. I mean, that's -- you know, what a concept! And that people understand that they will have a voice, and especially parents in the direction of the schools. It doesn't mean they can run the school. I'm not looking to run a school; I'm looking to have a voice, and parents are looking to have a voice in what's going on. And if somebody has a good program or a good game plan, generally they need to buy into it, support it, and make sure that it works well. On the other hand, I do need to hear a something a little different, at least to make this record better, as to what the SRC plans to do and what its mindset is with regard to parental involvement. And you can call it "voting," you can call it 261 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS "assessment" or "figuring out where people are." But it has to be legitimate, it has to be understandable, and people have to be able to sit in a place and say, Yes, I want to see this program that someone has given me in a reasonable amount of time that I can read, that I can ask a question about, and that I can understand, and I would want my child to go to that particular school to get that kind of education from that kind of provider, and they actually have something to say about it, and I need to hear about that from an SRC perspective.
Councilman, we have heard this body's sense and the articulation of that desire as well. We are putting into place, and will announce shortly, the ERAG system, the Educational Reform -- (Councilman Cohen offers pretzels to SRC members.)
Thank you very much, I appreciate it. I would love some mustard -- and a 262 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS beer. (Laughter.)
All I can say to the SRC is that if Councilman Cohen is offering you pretzels, you are in a world of trouble. Thank you very much.
We have the ERAG systemic in place. But, again, one of the things when I read the enactment of this body, what became clear to me was, there has to be some system way of involving participation and accountability. It's going to be in the contract. The community groups are going to have the ability to say, "Look, we don't think they're doing so well" or "We think they're really great." We're going to involve community groups. The manner in which they're involved is going to be a matter of contract as well as external process.
And the last thing I'll say on this particular point is, let me also encourage you, there were other provisions in that particular legislative effort --
-- that tried to lay 263 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS out a timetable. And, again, you'll hopefully develop your own timetable; that was our attempt to lay out something that says, You should get information from any of these entities at some point in time. You should have some reasonable amount of time to be able to read it, understand it, and make some decision for yourself and for your child. And if you choose not to participate in that, then there should also be a reasonable amount of time for you to then make other choices, to seek alternatives for your child, and not get caught in a Catch that has you opting out of one situation, 14 with no ability to hop in to another, because the 15 time that you should have made a decision was eight 16 months ago. 17 I mean, we will spin people around in 18 such a way that they won't know what's going on, and 19 I'm not sure what we will have accomplished at the 20 end of the day if we don't have a certain level of 21 coordination and consistency in this effort. 22 You're obviously, again, under a tremendous amount of time pressure. It's March. The things that we don't know don't change are that school ends in June, it starts back up in September. 264 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS So anytime you do something like this, it's always going to have a certain time pressure to it, and you're probably at the worst possible window to try to do something of this magnitude. Thank you.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Nevels, I think that in an effort to be really candid with each other, there's some confusion on maybe my part and also some of the people that I talk to. The announcement was made abut the cuts at the Central Administration. Could you be real clear on -- there's a perception that the teaching element is not going to be affected by the work of the School Reform Commission, that it's kind of like, "Hands off, we're going to mess with the people that worked in the administration, but the school teachers, the curriculum, we're not really 265 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS going to mess with that." What I need to hear is that -- maybe the message that I think many people are hearing is that maybe there's politics or maybe there's other reasons, that things aren't going to change much in the way the kids actually physically get educated, but I think -- and, again, to be candid with each other, we got to hear that maybe the way we're teaching our children is going to change. Like today, I heard about a program, the Twilight Program, and I've been here trying to figure how a child gets educated in three hours a day, to did I hear?
Well, how does it -- how come in takes -- how many hours for a normal child, 6 hours a day, 5 hours a day? How many?
Well, how do you educate a child in hours, where it takes a kid that goes to school hours? So it just doesn't compute. So what I think I need to hear is, will the way we educate our kids change? And the message 266 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS that -- and maybe I'm not hearing it correctly and the people I'm talking to aren't hearing it correctly or understanding it, but is there a shot that maybe the way we do business in the classroom and the way we educate -- we heard today Latin might be history. Other programs, are they going to be reviewed to see if, in fact, the money that we spend for these programs is being spent -- is best spent? So let's talk about the educational side and the perception -- and if it's wrong, you need to clear it up -- that it's kind of, like, sacred ground.
Whatever the number of schools that we're going to engage, it will be substantial reform, and that's going to relate to curriculum as well. Believe me, the Commission is looking at the entire picture: How we do business, how we procure, how we manage Fleet Management, all of those things, food service. But, but, what we do is, we educate children. And, specifically, when you look at the number of schools that are going to be engaged as a part of our plan, that was going to be one of the 267 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS most profound changes that you can have affecting the most seriously impacted children. So we've talked a lot, and I think certain of your colleagues are right on the money in terms of talking about finances, talking about how we're going to try to do business differently, how we're going to try to save money and bring the budget in balance. But nothing can be more profound than looking at our -- and I won't say "worst performing schools," but rather, our children who are most in need, and impacting in a substantial way the way in which they learn and the curriculum that is imparted to them.
I'd like to ask the Superintendent just to go back to my question. How do you educate a child according to State law? I assume that they go to school five days a week, 3 to 6. How does a child get a -- how does a child graduate with that type of an education?
These students also very often go in the summer. Some of the other kinds of courses -- in other words, it's more of a tailored 268 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS program based on their deficits, whether it's reading, whether it's math, whether it's science. Very often these students, you know, may have ways of taking courses such as physical education and some of the other courses that really constitute the length of other students' days. Also, we have some students in twilight who not only go to the regular school but who also stay those extra three hours, so in addition, they're in, you know, school, plus three more hours of school.
Well, then, to finish up, I'm asking Mr. Nevels, are programs like this going to be basically, We're not going to touch this program? I'm not suggesting that it should be touched, because I don't know anything about the education or value of it or the lack of value, but all I would like to know is, is the School Reform Commission going to go program by program by program and look at it and say, You know, it would be nice to have this if we could afford to do this. But I'd like to know how you're going to approach this myriad of programs. Every time I turn around, there's another program. How are you going 269 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS to deal with that?
I'm going to defer question to my colleague Jim Gallagher, who is on the State Board of Education and can give you some insights to the M.O.
Mr. Councilman, we're going to do it methodically. It will take time. There are a long list of programs, you're totally correct, and we will audit them, but we will not audit them instantaneously. But I'll take this program as an example. We'll take a long, hard look at it. If it's of value and we can afford it, we'll move ahead with it. At this point, we tend to connect all of our decisions to the money that's available to the Commission.
Well, that's great, because what I heard -- no disrespect to the answer -- is that there's a program that a child goes to school for three days. Maybe they're doing something else someplace else, and I don't know how all of that record comes together to add up to six hours a day or five and a half hours a day of 270 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS productive -- of productive -- and I think that's an important part, productive hours to educate. Or is it just another way to move a person through the school system, give them a diploma, then they can't find job because they can't read or write?
Well, let me create a hypothetical student and see what the Superintendent thinks. These are older students, right? Mostly to -- 13
For the most part, they're 14 older students with very few high school credits 15 accumulated 16
They could possibly be a 17 student who would end up with a GED, correct?
So you're 18 years old, you've had a mixed experience, we still have faith in you, we think you can be a success. You enter this program and then simultaneous, you're taking GED credits. I'm making this person up, but it's a real person, you can be sure of this, that individuals at this stage are out there. 271 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS That person graduates, we find that person a job, possibly they go into the military, and come back as successful citizens. The option is you're sitting out there at with no alternatives. 6 But let me go back to what I said a few 7 moments ago. The driving force from my mind and, I 8 think, from all of the Commissioners' minds is that 9 we're looking at the student and his or her ability 10 to succeed in a program. 11 I really was taken by your comment on the 12 long list of programs. I'm not impugning or 13 demeaning what came before us, but I think we have 14 an obligation to look at all of these programs and 15 evaluate them and report back primarily to the 16 parents and students and then to the funders, and 17 that's what we're going to do. 18 I'll petition for time. All of the questions asked to date are realistic questions, but keep in mind, we are, in my opinion, on a very tight timeline, and we're going to try to behave and perform at the highest level possible.
Well, I appreciate that response, and I'm not picking on this program; I'm only using this program because it's out in 272 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS front of us today that you got a program, and I understand now the program a bit better, because I was under the impression that we had kids, the way it was said, I don't want to get up in the morning or I'm having trouble fitting into the normal school day, and I want to go to school at night. Well, I would hope that that's not the criteria. I hope the criteria is what was just described here, because it sounds to me that this is a program that should be looked at carefully. It could be a very good program, it sounds like it is, from my colleague's comments, but I'm pleased to hear that there's going to be a methodical -- an audit of every one of these programs to see if we can afford it -- and not just afford it, to see if it makes sense, that it's good for the kids, not just another to satisfy some politician to adopt a program that they have a good, fuzzy feel about that.
Well, we appreciate that level of scrutiny, and we also appreciate the reality that since students learn lots of different ways, one of the aspects that we're looking at is what constitutes differentiated learnings, what 273 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS constitutes differentiated instruction, and how much seat time is needed to really internalize meaningful concepts. I say that because if student is in school for three or four hours, if they well- constructed, multi-disciplinary units where they're learning science in the context of a social-studies question or vice versa, that in essence, you are learning skills in a combined fashion, without saying that I have to go to something for 45 minutes called "science," and 45 minutes called "social studies." So we are pushing more towards integrated, thematic units so students aren't looking at things as discrete, separate entities. But, of course, we're always looking at it through the lens of how rigorous is the content, the course content, being offered.
Are there going to be any significant changes? Does the 180-day rule still apply? Do we have to have 180 days of education?
You know, maybe that 274 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS should switch to hours, but are any of the rules that we have lived with for decades gone by the wayside or some things that we don't have to adhere to?
Yes. Actually the concept called "credits" is a concept that has actually gone by the wayside. We said (indiscernible) graduates be 23.5 credits, but it's actually defined by the State as "instructional planning units." It's not so much a credit, but what is the instructional experience of the child, not necessarily divided into credits. We still have a credit system, but we may over time be moving away from a credit system which is not so much tied in to so much seat time equals this credit. We are right now on a credit system at this current time.
Mr. Nevels, I'm going to finish. Are there any other significant changes that we need to know, like going away from credits to something new?
Not at this time. 275 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS
You're welcome The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to go back to questions raised by my colleague Councilman W. Wilson Goode regarding the role and authority of principals currently and what that will look like under reform. We know that the research shows that where you have strong, assertive, engaged, active leadership at the principal level, attendance is up, the academic performance of the students is high, and parents are engaged. So you've spoken to using a baseline standard or a standard that's consistent for both public schools as well as those run potentially by the private contractor. What currently exists in terms of principal accountability? And under reform, what do you see putting in place to ensure that we move to having quality principals across the board, particularly when you look at the disparity that exists with low-end schools or schools who are not 276 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS performing as well?
The current situation is that principals are rated, so to speak, each year in something called a "Principal Performance Appraisal System." There are various domains relative to what constitutes good principal performance; one being, you know, test scores, community outreach, safety of environment, things of that nature. Principals also -- what also counts in terms of a principal's rating is test scores count. There is differentiated pay for principals based on how they are ranked. That particular process all happens under the auspices of the area academic officer, who is the principal's first rating officer.
Okay, so incentives are in place. That's encouraging. In response to Councilman Rizzo's question, I was struck by the -- he wanted specifics about what you are doing internally to eliminate the cost of running the Philadelphia public school system, one of which was you mentioned the cancellation of $15 million in capital projects. Purely for informational purpose, can you 277 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS share with us what some of those capital projects are? And in no way the question of the why; we know the why, that's why we're here. But can you share with us -- I believe it was your finance officer, finance director, that mentioned that there are $15 million cancellation of capital projects.
Yes. I have a list of everything except the projects. Some of the types would be along the lines of roofs were not being replaced on a scheduled basis, windows were not being replaced on a regular basis. The question that we asked was for each facility that's out there -- an example would be your roofing system or your windows system would, one would expect, last a set number of years -- 20, years, depending on the school. And when we 19 looked at the project initially, we found that it 20 was more of a haphazard process where specific 21 projects were not on this type of schedule. 22 And for that reason, we asked the 23 facilities folks on a project-by-project basis to go 24 back and take a look at all pending projects to 25 evaluate which ones made sense, and they are in 278 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS concurrence with the elimination of the 15. I will get a list for you tomorrow when we return.
You may be aware -- and I'm sure that you are, given the work that you all have had to do -- of a report that was produced by, I believe, Perks
Where is that in the mix of the analysis, given the instructive information that that report provided? (Witness comes forward.)
With all due respect, I've asked Tom McGlinchey, the Chief Operating Officer who's head of Facilities and Construction, to come up and respond.
Good afternoon. Would you mind repeating the question, please?
Sure. I don't remember the year, because it was before my time, but I do know that a consultant company with the last name of Perks produced a 279 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS comprehensive analysis of all of the facilities in the Philadelphia school system and the needed capital improvements that the School District should look at as it proceeded to the expenditure of capital dollars. So is that being considered as part of this analysis that you're currently going through?
The study you're speaking of was done by the Perks-Reuter Group in 1995.
And it was a snapshot at that point in time of all of the District's school buildings and what it would cost to bring those buildings up to a predetermined standard. The price tag on that at that time was $765 million; our estimate was about 50 percent of that was capital projects. We have used that as a base, along with our own assessment of facility needs, to determine what our capital program -- what projects to include in our capital program.
And was not that $765 million a result of back, incomplete or 280 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS unstarted projects as well?
No. It was simply an assessment of the existing buildings and what it would cost to bring them up to our predetermined standard, just the existing buildings. It did not take into account new-construction needs.
Councilwoman, I read that report quite slowly and I was quite interested in it. It's worth dwelling on for a moment. First of all, we should give people credit for good work. What the school managers did in recent years is, when you have construction problems, you can do the entire or you can do the shell. Roof windows: If you're short on money, you do the shell and then you go back later. And correct me if I'm wrong, what you did is you went and protected the shells of all of the 265 buildings, and then you're going to move back in and do the interiors. It's an imperfect model, but it's a very enlightened model in view of the challenges that they were facing.
Mm-hmm. 281 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS
But I don't think we should be overwhelmed by it, because if you come up with a plan over a period of time, you can eat those costs, but it's quite a challenging piece of work right now.
And so as we're in this stage of developing a plan, and though that document as a tool may not be of relevance at this hour --
Yeah, that was a wise decision. (Addressing Mr. Gallagher.) And you can disagree with me Tom, if you so --
No, I think the qualifier is that that was just a snapshot in time. In other words, at that point, Perks Reuter went out and assessed the buildings. That was the need. There's an old saying in the facilities business that "rust never sleeps," so in the seven 282 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS years intervening, we've had some additional deterioration of the facilities, and we've invested quite a lot of money, as Dr. Gallagher says, in the envelope of the building to protect the inside, which we can attack after we've closed the envelope.
So is there any connection, then, to what you've just shared with us and the $15 million savings that we're looking to with regards to capital projects?
The $15 million savings that Mr. Doosey speaks of are essentially deferred projects, projects that we had scheduled for this year's capital budget, that we looked at, and determined we could get by for another year, another two or three years, without having to invest that money.
Very well. Thank you for that explanation. That concludes my questioning, Madam President.
Thank you, The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
Thank you, Madam President. 283 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS With respect to that last answer, it's always been my understanding that the capital needs of the School District were far greater than the School District felt it could deal with in any one year and that, therefore, there would be cutoffs saying Well, this can't make a list this year, maybe it will make it in the next year. Has any consideration been given to the expenditure of that same $15 million to substitute on other projects which are desperately needed all throughout the City? There are all kinds of funding and roofing and housing problems that are desperately needed, and I just find it inconceivable that at this point, anybody would think of cutting the capital spending by $15 million because what ought to be happening is just the reverse.
My statement wasn't that the overall capital spending would be less by $15 million; my statement was that there were specific projects worth $15 million. What the SRC has requested of Facilities is that on a building-by-building basis, they come back to the SCR with a long-term plan for each 284 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS facility: What does each facility need from an engineering and architectural standpoint and from the evaluation of the building as it exists.
Well, that to me is not saving. When you defer the cost of replacing this work that is not being done now, it will probably be far more expensive than the $15 million when you decide to do it. I think it represents a loss and instead of arbitrarily being taken out, if your feeling is these projects can wait two or three years, substitute others which didn't quite make the list, because the needs are enormous all throughout the City. We've had testimony over many days of hearings as to the very basic capital needs. And we've gone along, we were unhappy about the limitation on capital spending, but we'd go along finally, but it seems to me to be the wrong direction go to find savings in something that is essentially going to wind up costing us more. So I ask that reconsideration be given there. Secondly, I'm very confused about many aspects. I hear the Chairman of the Commission talk about academic performance, academic achievement, 285 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS goals that he says exist in addition to the fiscal goals that he has in mind, and he talks about the academic standards. Now, there was distributed, I guess, today to us this document called the "Curriculum Renewal Plan," which was distributed by the School District of Philadelphia, and it carries at the beginning page a letter by the Superintendent, together with the Chief Executive Officer -- at that time, Philip Goldsmith, a letter to Judge Smith. Is that letter still valid?
Yes, it is. That is the document that I referred to in my testimony that is the academic procedural document for all work that we do. It is the Curriculum Renewal Plan that we worked on over the course of the past year under the guidance of Judge Doris Smith. We had to submit it to her for approval in the fall. We did, it was approved, and it is our guiding document, all the work that we do in curriculum instruction and assessment.
And I understood from your reply, Mr. Nevels, to a question that you agreed with the Superintendent's description that 286 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS this is the basic approach of the School District currently, under the School Reform Commission, that it's going to be the content of this booklet? Is that accurate?
Then why the need for all of the consultants and the RFQs for consultation on academic planning? It's always been my view -- I wish I had known of the letter, I would have had greater authority, but I've talked all over the City the last couple of years about how I thought Judge Smith's opinion set forth everything that basically needed to be done in the Philadelphia schools to bring it up to a really acceptable level of performance, and I'm glad to see that there is acceptance by the School District of that general conclusion. But why is there then a need for all of these consultant groups?