Because what we are going to do is, we are going to look at the proposals and the way that they're being effectuated within the District. 287 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS
We're going to look at how we do business in terms of educating, and are we, in fact, providing the services contained in there.
You know, it seems to me the District currently is fully equipped to deal with that; it's shown it. It's shown it by this plan, it's shown it by some of the excellent schools that exist, by some of the excellent programs that exist, even in schools that in the test scores sometimes don't rate very favorably. It just seems -- it's a worrisome thing as to the need for all of these contracts. You know, it gives me difficulty when somebody says to me, Isn't it a fact, really, that the savings of the $25 million is going to be wiped out as soon as Edison or other companies come in? Aren't those positions going to be filled by that company? And I find it difficult to answer that. Incidentally, you talk about savings being identified. In the law, at which I feel more at home than in any other area, identification is always a very interesting and a very difficult 288 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS question. Couldn't you give us just in general the process by which you identified the ability to lay off this number of 325? How did the number get arrived at? You communicated -- what set that number; was it the financial needs, as you saw it, to effectuate a certain amount of savings? Had you gotten documents public or secret that indicated to you there was a great deal of fat around and that it was concentrated in certain areas? How did you communicate to the people in the charge of the departments what they ought to be looking for? 'Cause as I understood it, you sent a request to the heads of the departments to make recommendations. Is it a matter of cutting specific programs that people are involved in, or is it a matter of eliminating work? Could you just talk in process, could you just identify the process? How did you go about figuring out what the savings were that you identified? And how did you communicate and on what basis were these judgments made? Why wasn't it 50 million or, on the other 289 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS hand, million instead of million, that kind of thing? Could you explain that to us? What's the process that was used?
The process that was used 6 was a review of non-field personnel. Your pool 7 would be all employees that are not directly 8 associated with the schools, so you would exclude 9 all principals, teachers, bus drivers, custodians, 10 etc. 11 The SRC then asked senior management -- 12 myself, Dr. Farmbry, our peers -- and their direct 13 reports to take a look at their areas first on a 14 functional basis. Are there functions that are 15 being performed now, which, while it's nice, we 16 really don't have a viable need for them any longer? 17 Secondly, it would be for those functions 18 where there is a viable need. Senior management was 19 asked to take a look at existing staff levels and to 20 respond to the question, knowing the financial 21 situation the School District is in, what would be 22 their recommendations as far as what changes they 23 would make? 24 The dollar numbers that were provided to 25 them were targets, to be quite frank. Some areas 290 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS came over target, some areas came under target. The $25 million savings total was an aggregation of all of those numbers, and embedded in that number is the recommendations of senior School District staff, School District staff that were on board prior to the arrival of the SRC. It is not the SRC dictating to senior managers what functions should and should not remain. I can express an opinion on finance; I cannot express an opinion on Miss Farmbry's area, nor on operations. I rely on their professional expertise.
Were any department heads given any kind of goal or targets?
The total targets that were given were -- the actual numbers were in the $30 million range, with salaries and with benefits. It was -- it wasn't so much a goal as a -- what the SRC's looking for is a rationalization explanation of each senior manager's current staffing plan and 291 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS current operations.
Was there anything written to any of the people, or did you have an oral meeting at which the department heads were talked to, or was it a written communication you sent to them?
It's actually a combination of both: It was a discussion with Mr. Nevels, his interim CEO, and then there were written communications as far as the process to be followed.
Would it be possible for us to see the written communications s that were sent to the department heads?
I have no objection with that. The only thing I would ask respectfully is I think that since some of the functions have been identified but the individuals, or the specific positions, have not been quantified, I would be sensitive to the situation of the existing employees.
Well, I'm talking only of the communications that you sent to them.
That will be fine. I'll have that available to you tomorrow. 292 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS
If we could have that tomorrow morning, that would be helpful, all right?
And is Commissioner Nevels and the others here going to be available tomorrow after the testimony by Debra Kahn before or after, whatever the President determines?
Councilman Cohen, I have just been informed that Mr. Nevels will be unavailable tomorrow; however, everyone else will be here. He has indicated that he would be more than happy to come any other time that Council so chooses. But everyone else will be here from the School District tomorrow to answer any questions.
Well, I think we need Mr. Nevels. We can determine that later on and he could come maybe promptly after tomorrow, sometime Thursday or Friday, if needed. I don't know whether he's actually needed.
And Mr. Nevels has indicated that he will stay as late as he has to this evening to answer any and all questions the Councilmembers have.
I think we're reaching 293 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS a level of --
I think so. Councilman Cohen, are you finished with your line of questioning?
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
Thank you. I have just one very simple, basic question that is important to me as a District Councilperson and to the many community groups that are in our communities. If we go to these partnership consumes, and they are our own public schools, many of us use these schools for community meetings and programs. Will we have access to those buildings? You may not be able to answer the question now, but what would be the protocol for accessing the use of public school buildings under 294 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS the management of a private organization?
That's a detail that we're going to have to address; I can't give you an answer right now.
I mean, there are a lot of just basic questions that have to be answered relative to the whole contracting-out of public schools to a private manager as they relate to the community and the community's involvement, and I think we ought we ought to get some serious, serious consideration to all of those little nitpicky, we might call them, details, but to us, they're very important. When I want to do a meeting at Martin Luther King, who do I go to? And what are the rules an regulations? And do we have access to those facilities?
So one other question -- it's not really a question, but I like the statement that Dr. Farmbry made on her testimony when she talked about the principals and educators giving their discussion and ideas on reform. 295 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS And how have we included these principals and people who are already in the field, working in the whole element of reform? Are they being listened to? since they're there, they're the ones who are going to have to work, they have the experience. Or are we going to rely on consultants who come from the outside with their own notions of how things work, without really knowing the lay of the land of Philadelphia? Have they been consulted in terms of reform, the principals and other teachers that presently exist in the school system as we talk about reform?
One of the things that we have done is, we have -- in terms of the process, the consulting, the RFQs, the staff has been actively involved in this, not to mention what Jim said earlier, Jim Doosey said earlier, in the way of examining and identifying personnel needs within the administration building. So the answer to that question is yes. We plan in terms of the evaluation of the RFQs that came in, on the consulting side, we 296 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS utilized teams of individuals in the building, in the Parkway building, to assist us. Also, as we have looked at the identity of schools, obviously, the area academic officers have been consulted and the principals as well, it's my understanding.
The area academic officers have been consulted, really engaged with me in a conversation about what supports would be needed for any number of their schools to really bring about rapid reform. Principals themselves were not consulted unless at some of the area academic -- I mean, we got the essence of their feedback by virtue of the fact that area academic officers meet with their principals every two weeks, so they have a handle on what's going on. But they were not consulted personally in terms of whether or not their school should be on the list, you know, what their inclination is. Not at that level of detail, no. 23
Okay, thank you, Madam President. I'm fading. You are too.
Excuse me? 297 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS
Mr. Chairman, let's talk very frank. There were negotiations between the Governor and the Mayor. When those negotiations ended, shortly thereafter, there were a series of appointments made by the Commission; I think, at that point, it was a one-person commission, yourself, I think, when the original $675,000 in consultant contracts were awarded. Being a Democratic ward leader, being very active politically for the last 35 or 40 years, names of people are known to me whether I know them or not, and I was struck by the fact that so many people were kind of well known only in the political world and in the political world that was largely associated with the Mayor of the City. And I wondered, how was it that you got those names that quickly and were able to make those appointments? Was it just coincidence, or what was 298 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS it? Or was that a part of the subject of negotiations that occurred between the Governor and the Mayor so that you were carrying out a part of the agreement that you were informed about?
Councilman, I have been involved in the law and in business and in finance for all of my professional career. I've been involved as a member of the Chester Upland Empowerment Team and also the Chester Upland Board that managed that distressed district. Over that period of time, I have come to know, and have worked with in all of those capacities, the individuals involved. And I had to draw upon them quickly to get to work, and that is precisely what I did, based on that experience that I had had in working with them in the past.
You referred, during an answer to a question, to Mr. Carl Singley as being the counsel of the School Reform Commission. It was a question that was asked about --
Yes, and I answered that in the context relating to DBE and MBE, yes.
Is it just a coincidence that he happens to be a person so 299 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS closely identified over so long a period of time with the Mayor, who is a part of these negotiations with the Governor?
I don't know the current relationship of Mr. Singley with the Mayor. I do know that in the past, I've worked with him on a number of occasions relating to counseling the Chester Upland School District on some other matters.
These are the kinds of questions being asked out in the community.
It was disturbing that the very first step taken by the School Reform Commission was the appointment of a whole lot of consultants, when we, in the Council, have felt that what's needed is money for kids in the schools.
In the classrooms, and that, we understood, was supposed to be -- we didn't accept it -- at least I didn't accept it, but at least I was told that it was going to be money for the kids in the classrooms, and the first set of 300 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS expenditures are unrelated to that entirely, but are related to PR activity, which I happen to think is probably the last thing that's needed. I think the Superintendent represents the School District very effectively, even in circumstances in which I may disagree with a conclusion she reaches, but she seems very firmly grounded, and I think that the District is fortunate to have her and to have most of the top-level people it has. I don't know about these 325; they're a great mystery to me to have suddenly discovered that there's 325 people wasting basically $25 million a year of much-needed money, and I need some proof that that's the case, because otherwise, I just think you're cutting when you ought to be strengthening and adding. And that, again, is what's being raised out in the community. We didn't touch upon the anti-labor aspect, but I hear on the air -- I heard this morning an ad on KYW, I've seen ads in the newspapers. Certainly the organized element in the School District feels -- feels very unsettled, very unsure, very unhappy about what seems to be going 301 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS on. And yesterday, I had one unfortunate experience in which I asked someone, through a mutual friend, to inquire about whether a person or an employee of the School District who I believed would have some information I thought relevant to our discussion today would speak to me, and the answer came back, "Nobody will talk to anybody at the School District anymore. They're all frightened to death." And I think that's not a healthy atmosphere, and I don't know whether it's the dismissal notices or the warnings of 325. You know, that sounds like some of these major cop corporations just chopping off without regard to performance. It leaves everybody with a lot of concern about what's happening. And I thought I ought to be impolite enough if that's what it is to raise that with you, because I think they deal with basic concerns that people have, and I would hope that you could address them, if not tonight, at a later time, not too much later.
Thank you, I will. 302 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS
Did you have any comment now with respect to these concerns? (Laughter.)
One of the most difficult decisions that anyone can make is the layoff or reductions in force. After giving close examination to the operation in the administration building and also after consultation and asking for recommendations in the process that Jim Doosey described, we did make determinations that there were -- that it was a case where we could make those reductions in force without injuring the children. It is a difficult decision, but it's one that's very necessary, and it was recommended to the Commission, and it's one that we have to stand by.
Would you say that those employees did not perform useful services? I don't know who we're talking about, but whoever happens to wind up in the group being cut, would you say that their services were not useful to the students?
I will not say that, that they were not useful to the students. I will say 303 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS that from an administrative standpoint, the division heads related to us that those services were not essential from an administrative standpoint.
And until that time, you did not know that, or no one in the School District knew that?
These are difficult times, Councilman. We have a case where we have -- and it's not been recent, it has not been a recent phenomenon where we have run the deficits that we have. This was an effort, and is an effort, to bring some fiscal responsibility to a situation where a difficult decision had to be made. I'd rather make this decision than to have it directly impact the children. And it's one that, while difficult, I commend to the Commission -- I commended the suggestion to the Commission, and I stand by that.0
Why couldn't you recommend to the Governor that additional funding be made available?
I have, and my colleague Jim Doosey and I have gone to Harrisburg, and we will 304 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS continue to go to Harrisburg, with the desire and ask, continue to ask for more funding and more permanent funding, but until we get that, we will have to be prudent stewards of what we have, and we'll have to make the appropriate measures that we need to keep the essential services of educating children on track.
That's the longest yield that I can ever remember. (Laughter.)
You know, since 9:30, we've been here, and I'm still trying to internalize how you are going to impact low-performing schools and the majority of the schools in the City with less money. I'm still trying to understand what partnership schools are, when there's no actual money that is going to be available, 'cause people think, actually, that -- some of these partnerships think that they're going to get paid an administrative fee or other aspects of monies. 305 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS I still do not, and cannot, rationalize, and I don't think it has been articulated today the rationale for your existence. I really cannot. And maybe I'm blind in terms of -- but what we've heard from 9:30 till now, and I'll read the record to see whether maybe I'm mistaken, but I still don't hear from a comprehensive reform plan; maybe I'll hear it during the next few days, as we go on. I still don't see -- 'cause I'm very well acquainted with what Doris Smith wrote in her opinion and how you're going to be able to implement the changes that are needed out there in the Smith plan. And I still haven't heard an answer about what role these -- this school, this corporation, is going to play in the administration and what's going to be the administrative percentage that they have. I guess 7 percent, 8 percent. The rationale and -- before I left, the rationale for hiring some consultants for recruitment, I think, is not valid because we went through a process of changing the recruitment methodology, and it seems to be working. And I think one of the best things that we can have, and we can posit to a graduating person 306 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS from out of state, is a stable educational system. Say, Come over here to Philadelphia, where the parents are in revolt, the politicians are afraid to put money forward at the State level. We're cutting across the board, we can't fix the schools. I don't know how that's going to recruit teachers. I just came from the (indiscernible) Marin School, and there were 400 kids at 3:15 and around close to over 150 parents, and they were asking for answers. The principal could not give them any because the principal did not know what was happening or when it was going to be happening or if she was going to be there or not. One of the things we read is that there are going to be less teachers. I don't know how that reforms and how that's going to bring about less kids in the classroom, but maybe in the age of Harry Potter and the Lord of the Rings, magic can happen. I really sat here all day long, hoping that a comprehensive, well-articulated plan based on economics, based on solid educational principles would be presented to this Council, and I haven't heard that. Yet, we're supposed to put and, as Jim 307 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS Kenney said, mortgage the future of this city on something that people may not see and might not be around. You got to be able to convince the parents, you got to be able to convince this body. I mean, this is not about opposition or whatever; this is about that we believe basically that this country, this city has a commitment to the kids of this city and this state, and that commitment has to be made of a viable, well-funded, well-staffed, competent educational system. Like when I first began and I told you I have two kids, I cannot go home today and say, you know, I look forward to a September that is going to be bright and hopeful. I didn't hear that today as a parent -- forget as a politician, but as a parent, I didn't hear that today. That was not articulated. As a politician, I'm going to have to vote on something that has implications of over 30 years, and I don't know -- as a person that has never said no to any request from the Board of Education here that was reasonable, I don't know whether this bond issue to resolve a one-year deficit is realistic or not.
308 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS I don't know whether -- because we did that as a city. In '88, '89, we went into deficit- spending without really putting the right structure and really going after the structural deficit that we had. And everybody talks about PICA and you being like PICA, but you're not like PICA, because when the State House created PICA, there was a tax imposed to cover the investment that was going to be made. There is no such thing here; everything is coming out of the General Fund. And it seems like we're not fixing Peter, but we're robbing from Paul. And we're putting two institutions in a slippery slope to insolvency: The City and the school system, 'cause we're not fixing the school system, and you're not fixing the school system, and partnership schools are not going to fix the school system, and Edison is not going to fix the school system. And I'm just tired of over years sitting here, and Dr. Farmbry has been a part of this over the years. We've been discussing this year after year, from Connie Clayton to Hornbeck. And, honestly speaking, I do not yet, because I haven't 309 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS heard it from you, I have not heard the rationale, the articulation of a plan. I think he has to come back. Thank you, ma'am.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter
Councilman, would you like me to call upon someone else?
No, Madam Chair, I will get myself together and try to keep up with the SRC. They were determined to wear us out today, and I'm just going to try to be a trooper through it all, and I just have a couple of other questions. Along the lines of what, in the last round I was talking about, the role of parents, separate from that, there has been some discussion today, and I've not gotten into the issue of the various EMOs, the providers, lead providers, community partner schools, but consultants, and then you're obviously going through that process right now. There has been a concern that, again, because this is public education and public dollars, 310 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS how much information will be shared and at what point with regard to the different contracts with EMOs, providers, lead providers, community partners, people who are going to be managing schools? They will have in essence, I think, if I'm understanding this correctly, a contract with the SRC; is that correct?
Okay. The question is, at what point are those contracts, public documents, how are they shared? how will they be shared with the public at large and the taxpayers? how will this be shared with members of City Council so that people can understand the nature of the contract, what's expected, and what the service is that's to be provided?
Upon the contract awards, there will begin the contractual negotiations between Council and the EMOs, and those will be the operative contracts. The second type of contract will also, of course, be with the consulting groups. Once those contracts are in form and finalized, they will be presented to the SRC for their approval pursuant to 311 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS a resolution process. They become public documents upon adoption and will be -- will certainly be available to the public.
Could you envision any scenario where, upon the execution and the Commission takes the appropriate action, that those types of documents -- and I'd like to, excuse me, be rather narrow in the focus. In distinguishing those kinds of documents and contracts versus who you might have a contract with for pencil and papers and office supplies, but that those kinds of contracts, when the SRC takes its action, could you envision any scenario where in a spirit of partnership, those documents could be sent, for instance, to the Chief Clerk's Office here in City Council for the Council to get them directly from the SRC and have an opportunity to look at them as one of the entities that actually provides a significant amount of funding to the School District, and then naturally to the operations overseen by the SRC?
Certainly I think that it would be appropriate to raise that with -- and I will raise it with the Commission and make a determination as to the possible release. 312 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS I can't comment and say that I would favor that individually upon the adoption and their becoming public documents, but I would have to consult with my colleagues as well.
Okay. From your perspective, at least as chair, Mr. Nevels, who ends up evaluating the work of the School District and the SRC on behalf of the public?
The public does that, I believe, and this is an issue that has come up, and we were asked this yesterday in Harrisburg. One of the things that we would hope to do is to use our internal-measurement people to give us a sense of how we're doing. We believe that we have the capability and the capacity in-house to establish a baseline in terms of testing and measurement. Number two, on the evaluation of how contractors are performing, I made reference earlier to firms like School Works and Mathematica to give us a sense, to give the Commission a sense as to how we're doing across the board. Those are the kinds of measurements that we would look at. As you know, there is currently pending some legislation in Harrisburg relating to 313 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS establishing a board. I believe that we currently have the wherewithal at the Commission to make the evaluation necessary.
Okay. You may also be aware that there is actually a slightly different piece of legislation pending at the City level as well --
-- that would provide an outside -- it's actually called a "Performance and Accountability Board," which would monitor the activities and also establish some realistic measurements and goals for the School District and for the SRC. I naturally heard what you said in terms of some of the private entities that would give you an assessment of how you're doing. I would take the leap to understand that some of those entities, though, may be actually under contract to the SRC in providing those kinds of services?
Well, the entities that you mentioned, what was it, Mathematica and --
Mathematica is an example 314 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS of one, and also School Works is one that was utilized in Chester Upland.
Okay. Again, I would ask -- and I know, obviously, you need to consult with your colleagues and there may be other people. I think that under the previous construct of a board Of education -- recently, you know, there was a change in the Educational Supplement to the Home Rule Charter actually trying to move the School District in the direction of more accountability for the Mayor, and then this situation evolved. There is, I think, with reason, a feeling in many sectors of the City that there's no way for the public of Philadelphia, whether they have a child in the system or not, whether they have a kid in the system or not, if you pay property taxes, I feel that you have some relationship with the School District, that there is at the moment no way to have an independent assessment of what's going on over there on how the District or the SRC is functioning, and that was the impetus for that legislation. Again, I would ask if you would take a look at that and see whether we might be able to reach some level of agreement as to in the -- as 315 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS they say from time to time, who watches the watchers? and make sure that the public has an ability to get an independent assessment of what's going on. I think my last question or two for the day is, we had some discussion earlier about where this is all going and the distinctions between this particular plan and earlier City plan that you could actually see, where the City of Philadelphia, through its financial crisis, was going to not only get resources, but also be able to pass a structurally-balanced budget, if not leading to small surpluses. We talked about -- and Mr. Doosey was involved in this conversation -- the need for ideas and proposals for a possible change in the structure of how public education is funded. And you mentioned that there have been a number of ideas out there, but that ultimately, that's the answer to this particular question. I would ask you to take back to your colleagues at the SRC, and also members of the SRC have a variety of relationships with people. I would like to encourage the SRC, given the way you 316 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS were constructed, the fact that you have set terms, I believe, as best as I read, I think it was either Act 46 and/or 83. I believe the members of the SRC can only be removed for cause?
So at least three of the members are going to be around for a good while. I would like to encourage you, as a commission, to use not only the power of your office, the nature of your relationships, but what appears to be the independence of your appointments and the stability that that brings, to take a message to the variety of parties that need to be involved that unless there is a new formula, the SRC will become the former board of education. You will be saddled with an unanswered question of how you get to fiscal stability, and you will preside with great security over a system that still has no road map to financial stability and educational excellence. And that -- and not so much as a threat, 317 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS I don't really much believe in threats, but as a commitment to your service on the SRC, that if there is not, in fact, a realistic change in the funding formula that not only helps Philadelphia but also the other 500 school districts in the Commonwealth, that you really need to reevaluate your service on the SRC such that you don't become the former board of education that was powerless to raise taxes or to raise its own funds or to find its own solution. And that as a part of your commitment to working on the SRC, a big part of it is to use this as an opportunity to force the discussion about the change in the funding formula, because otherwise, I think you have to acknowledge, and then admit, that you won't be able to do your job. So, all that we've gone through, the independence you've been given, the inability to be taken off of the board or the commission other than for cause, what is the purpose for all of that security, if not to make a serious and realistic change? And I think it gives you an incredible opportunity in the bully pulpit to call for those changes. And, lastly, whether with some 318 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS legislators or some business people that you know. People that have backgrounds in public finance or education-finance issues, I would also ask if you could seek to have people who are not a part of the SRC or the School District, but other people, ask them on your behalf to begin to put together ideas that you will ultimately embrace and bring forward to the public to start this debate and discussion as soon as possible. Because I don't think you can have a legitimate debate and discussion about new funding formulas if there's nothing out in the public for people to -- they can either embrace it, they can maul, it they can do whatever they want to do with it, but for anybody to reject it, they should be prepared to step forward with their own plan. And I think if the School Reform Commission takes that posture and has a group of people who are legitimate in their field, have great backgrounds and the political capital to expend to come up with some ideas and plans, it at least forces people to deal with it as a realistic and legitimate concept, as opposed to the theoretical and the hoped-for. 319 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS
Thank you. And you'll let us know what your colleagues say or think about that?
Absolutely. And, hopefully, you may recall in our last round of questioning that I stated that once we get a CEO in place, we'll be able to really focus our attentions on some of the oversight issues, including focusing on this very important systemic means of providing aid to ourselves and the other 500 school districts in the Commonwealth.
Thank you. Mr. Doosey, you mentioned earlier that part of the SRC's recent activities was either the elimination or the postponing of $15 million in projects, capital projects? Was that elimination or postponement?
I'll bring the list tomorrow. It's my understanding it's an elimination of the projects, and I will bring the list tomorrow for Council's review.
Okay, you anticipated the second part of the question. 320 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS Thank you for that. Now, lastly, last summer, there was a memorandum of understanding that was entered into by Mayor Street and Governor Ridge, and then in September, the end of September, there was an amendment made to that same memorandum of understanding primarily for extension purposes. And the two main provisions of that are: One, the Governor will examine the foregoing analysis and, no later than October 31, 2001, will provide to the Mayor a long-term proposal to address the educational and financial situation in the School District, including options to improve the educational performance and financial condition of the School District. With that in its proper context, Chairman Nevels, I need to ask you, the plan before us, $45 million in FY '02, $25 million transferred in millage, $20 million in the direct grant next fiscal year, $75 million from the Commonwealth next fiscal year, and the $300 million debt financing to eliminate the deficit this year, next year, and possibly somewhere between Fiscal Years '04 and '05, and return to deficits, I think in Mr. Doosey's 321 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS testimony, in '05. Does this plan meet the test of what that provision of the memorandum of understanding laid out back in July or back in September of 2001?
Councilman, I would have to go back and look at that memorandum and the context in which it's written. I will get back to you with an answer in that regard.
Okay, thank you. I appreciate your response. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Mr. Nevels, I'm going to ask of you a request to forward some information to the Chair, and I just want to make sure, before we leave here tonight, that my request is communicated clearly to you so there's no loopholes or no misunderstandings of what I'm asking for. Whether the period be six months, a year before you arrived, I'd appreciate you providing to the Chair any consultants, contractors that were hired either by the School District or the Reform Commission as a result of the creation of the 322 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS Commission. So I want to make sure that I'm expressing myself clearly and I don't want to be told two months from now, Well, you didn't ask the question clearly enough. I think that you're understanding what I'm asking for: The names, the dollar amounts of the consulting contracts or contractors that have been hired to support the takeover, or whatever language we want to use. Am I basically covering it all? Am I going to be told, Well, you didn't ask for that in a subsequent conversation? I want to know who all of the contracts are and what these folks are doing -- not just for the Commission, but for the School District also.
Thank you Okay, Madam Chair, that's all I wanted to know.
Thank you The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you, Madam Chair. 323 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS Just a couple of questions, Mr. Nevels. When is the list of partnership schools going to be finished, if it hasn't already been?
That list... yeah, I believe that is available the first week in April.
The first week in April, okay. Can you send a copy to the Chair, to the President, and we'll get that?
Also, in looking at Deirdre Farmbry's testimony this morning, there's some recommendations that were made by a list of principals, and I know they all precede with funding, funding, funding. If funding permits, will these recommendations be included, or are they being considered to be included in a reform plan? And also, are you using part of the Empowerment Plan to come up with whatever it is you're going to come up with your Comprehensive Reform Plan?
We are going to look at, as 324 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS I alluded to earlier in the day, the May 20th of last year Workout Plan. Also, we're going to include the Empowerment Report and also anything else including the acting Superintendent's recommendations included in her remarks.
Okay. Just so that I could be clear, who will make the selection of the community partners -- the partner groups?
That is correct. We will try to match them up; that's currently the plan.
Okay. Just in terms of structure, and we could talk more about this tomorrow, but will the area academic offices still exist with EMOs and how that's structured or what it will look like?
I can't imagine why not. We're going to use that structure with the educational reform councils. I can't imagine why that structure wouldn't exist going forward.
Okay. And I'd like 325 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS to just put one other thing on the record, and then I am finished for the day. When will you complete your CEO search? MR. NEVELS I'd like to defer to the chairs that are handling that.
For your information, Councilwoman, Dr. Gallagher and I are heading up the search committee for the SRC and are working jointly on that process. We anticipate, first of all, having the CEO in place for the beginning of the school year in September. We have engaged a search firm just this past week. We did announce that Hydrig & Struggles (ph) is the firm that will be working with us to identify the CEO for the District, we have a very aggressive timeline for them to bring in candidates to us, and we expect to have finalists identified ideally by the middle of June in terms of that timeframe, and then to have negotiated a contract and have the CEO in place by the end of the academic year.
I have a schedule in 326 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS front of us, and I'll just give you some of the highlights. April 1 through 8: Solicitation of nomination. The process begins. Public advertisements. I'll just pick highlights for you. April to 29: Candidates interviewed 9 in person. 10 May 20 to 27: Final interviews. 11 Sometime in June: Selection of the 12 candidate. 13 So we're -- to reiterate what my 14 colleague said, it's a very aggressive and 15 optimistic schedule. We are dealing with human 16 beings, and they behave in different ways at 17 different times, as we all know, so this schedule 18 may slide for a short period, but we feel a great -- 19 I used this term the other day and I'll use it 20 again -- a great sense of constructive anxiety, not 21 destructive anxiety, that we get this thing 22 completed quickly so that we can have a colleague sitting here with you, so we can enhance the level of exchanges. We need a leader in this position -- not 327 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS that we don't have one now, but we need a CEO. So we are very optimistic. And let me anticipate one additional question that came up the other day: Will people be interested in this position? We believe people will be interested in this position. It's a very challenging position, but it's a watershed moment in American education, and we are very optimistic. We believe that if we get the right person and that person wins your confidence and the confidence of the people throughout this city, we can be successful. So we're going to go at it with a great sense of urgency and a great sense of intensity, and I promise you that we will keep you posted as the events unfold.
Okay, I know the last time you hired Phil Goldsmith, he was hired because of his business, he came from private industry. And then you hired Deirdre as the CEO. Is that the same structure you'll be looking at, or are you --
Yes, we're following same structure: CEO, CAO. 328 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS
Thank you The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
It's a wide-open search, sir. All viable candidates are being considered. Present people -- people presently employed and any other individual who may be nominated from across the country.
All right, because I think Philadelphia's, unfortunately, begun a practice of assuming that people from outside of the City are more suitable, more qualified, and I would love to see somebody in Philadelphia occupy that position. But in response to the Chair of the Education Committee, you indicated you're thinking of -- is that a fiscal officer then, as Mr. Goldsmith was?
Let me describe it in this way. The Chief Executive Officer would be the 329 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS Senior Management Officer, fiscal, will certainly have some academic understanding, management principles, HR, all of the activities you would find in a chief executive officer, if I can use the corporate model as an example. And then the Chief Academic Officer would report to the Senior Management Officer. Another parallel that many of you will understand. Often universities will have -- a huge university have a president -- let's use Temple University, it's a revered place. Temple University has a president and a provost. The President does the broad-based management activities -- finance, public relations, promotion, government work. And then the provost does the internal academic work. The thought across the nation today, and I agree, is that these positions have become so complex and so demanding, that it's better to have two brilliant people than one brilliant person. And that's what's motivating this new model. And I think it's a grand idea, by the way. Today would be a good example. A year from now, there will be a CEO who will be testifying in this room, hopefully doing a fine job. And the 330 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS Academic Officer will be home running the shop, running the schools. The next day, you may invite the Academic Officer to come share his her time with you, and the CEO will be back running the shop.
Sometimes we tend not to recognize the gem quality of somebody close to us.
As a Philadelphian, sir, I applaud the constant employment of all Philadelphians, present company included.
By the way, I'm not petitioning for this position; I have a great position right now in East Falls.
You did an outstanding job, but I wanted to comment one another way 'cause you use language very similar to the kind of language I like. I think it's a watershed day, but I think it's a watershed day for public education, and my overriding concern is, I think when you take control away from the general populace, which has had it for a long time, I think you're damaging the image of and the reality of public school education. To me, public schools mean public in the 331 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS fullest sense, with heightened parent activity, not just being advisors. Parent activity means parents feeling that they are participating in making the decisions, not just in being part of a group of folks who are being used to, you know, provide some advice, some suggestions. It seems to me that in the education field, one of the great things in Philadelphia -- I think we were probably the first city in the country that really had a public education system, and I'm very scared that when you bring in these private consulting groups, even those partnerships that we talk about, they may be well motivated, but I think they do great damage, particularly when you bring in companies that are devoted to profit-making. That's got to be -- Mr. Nevels, I think you have to agree, a corporate, for-profit organization, its first duty, its first responsibility is to the shareholders, because they're the ones that have provided the capital, they're the ones that the Chief Executive Officer has to report to. And it seems to me that we need people whose first client and first concern are not 332 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS investors, but the people of Philadelphia. And that's the reason why I don't like to -- I don't mean to offend anybody, but I feel very strongly on this issue. I think that it is a watershed day for Philadelphia, and I hope that by next year, sitting at this table where you are testifying today will be members of a reconstituted Board of Public Education. The people of Philadelphia have worked too hard. We went through the process of an election just a few years ago. I happen to disagree with Councilman Nutter on the issue, but both of us felt it was very important that the decision be made by the people of Philadelphia as to the powers of the Mayor with respect to the appointment of board members. I don't think any of us ever considered the potential that there may be people who we don't regard as coming out of the Philadelphia public school arena sitting in your positions today, representing the people of Philadelphia. I don't think you do that. I'm not trying to impugn any motives here; I'm just saying I think that the School Reform 333 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS Commission is not the proper approach to use in the field of education in the City of Philadelphia. And so there will be a number of us committed to bringing back the total control. Before when people didn't like anything that happened at the Board or at the School District, they would know when a meeting was taking place because the meetings were public and were regular, and they could go down and voice their opinions sharply, directly to members of the Board. I know of it 'cause I was among those who at times in Council -- appeared as a Councilmember to protest Board decisions. I often thought that the Board of Education was wrong in what it was doing, but at least it was a close contact to the people in the schools, and every parent felt everywhere, Well, if nobody else listens to us, at least we can go down and make our voices heard at a public meeting of the Board of Education. And they're responsible to us, they're Philadelphians, we can control their selection. And we think that ought to be instituted. And ultimately, if we didn't like it, we could vote them out of office.
We can't vote you 334 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS out of office, we can't vote in your successors, we have nothing to do with it. Even the incoming governor, by the terms of the statute, would not be in a position to charge any of you except for cause, and that never happens politically. So I'm just saying that the framework in which you're operating is a framework which I think is anti-democratic, with a small D, and I don't think it bodes well for public education, no matter how well intentioned it may be Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. I will keep it very short and sweet today. I have put together the issues, some issues in my district, save one area that's not my district, but I have a principal who comes from my district, so I'll submit that to you because it deals with various schools, and then you can consider that and get back to me.
Will do. 335 3/19/02 - FY '03 PHILADELPHIA SCHOOL BUDGET HEARINGS
Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee? (No further questions or comments.)
I really want to thank you for your patience. I know we've been sitting here for quite a while. I think it's been a very important day. The committee will stand in recess until tomorrow, Wednesday, March the 20th, promptly, promptly at 9:30 a.m.
Thank you. (Proceedings end at 5:39 p.m.) - - - 336 CERTIFICATE WE HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia's meeting of the Committee of the Whole of Tuesday, 3/19/02, are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by us, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. RE: Ordinance No.'s: _______________________________, Judy Barit Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public _______________________________, Josephine Cardillo Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)