That is trash.13 That goes in the landfill. That's there14 forever.15
Because the18 environmentalists want three things: They19 want to reduce, they want to recycle, and20 they want to reuse.21
So if you25 247 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 put that stamp on there, they're happy.2
The Steven Starr6 group is happy. They wanted something7 different, they wanted something8 different.9
And I think, you11 know, in listening to everybody, and I12 listened to you folks, and I see a lot of13 confusion.14 What is polystyrene? What -- as15 I said, it comes in a lot of different16 shapes. I'm a local business guy.17
I came down here,19 I got a suit on, but I came down here on20 my own dime because I'm interested in my21 industry, my business, and my city.22 When I see the trash -- 346923 Belgrade, go up there.24
We've been25 248 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 there.2
It's terrible. I3 know you've been up there. It's terrible4 to see the trash that's up there. But5 that's not what our manufacturers are all6 about, they're not about that.7 That guy over there, that's a8 company called (indiscernible), that9 greenware cup. They're private guys, they10 did that on their own dime. That's a11 compostable biodegradable cup that you can12 compost.13 I watched the Eagles last year14 when they were touting that, saying they15 were recycled. You can't recycle that16 cup. That has to go only in a compost17 site.18 I make calls to people in19 Philadelphia, and they say, Is it20 compostable? I say, Do you have a compost21 site? No. Well, it's compostable, but22 you have to have a compost site.23 Now, what I've taken from you24 folks is that you're looking for more25 249 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 support from the manufacturing community2 on recycling and composting, and I'll3 bring that back. And if they haven't been4 doing that, they should be doing that, but5 they've been doing an awful lot, they6 really have been.7
Well,8 they're very quiet about it 'cause they9 don't tell anybody what they're doing.10 And we had --11
Let me13 finish.14 We had a whole set of hearings15 two years ago. I sat in an un -- in many16 meetings, more than I ever wanted to, in17 my own office and here, and was given vast18 assurances that we were going to have19 contact and progress. And it's two years20 later, and we don't.21 Now, I'm willing to listen22 again, as I said, or I would have moved23 that bill out of committee today. I held24 it out of respect for the people who work25 250 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 in the industry and the employees and2 other places in the State that produce it.3 However, I mean, how long do I4 have to hold my breath?5
I agree with you.6 I came here earlier this morning and see7 you guys just sitting there all day. I8 give you a lot of credit, and you got more9 patience than I would have.10 I'll take that back to the folks11 that we represent. And I think, you know,12 these guys are looking for somebody --13 what -- how did the meeting go? They're14 looking for somebody to help 'em. They're15 throwing a lot of money around in research16 and development on these products.17 That company there, Fabric18 (indiscernible), they're a styrene guy,19 but they came up with that greenware cup.20 I never thought it would fly. It's been21 very successful.22 We represent International23 Paper. They came up with a ecotainer,24 which is paper with a PLA insert. That's25 251 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 a good one. That's biodegradable and2 compostable.3 I make calls on people, for4 instance, up at Penn State. The first5 call up there, they wanted to do6 composting. They had no clue. You go7 back about a year later. The kids wanted8 them to do it. But they had to set the9 infrastructure up themselves with the10 trashcans trash. A year later, I came11 back, and they had their own trash12 haulers.13 So it's a difficult task for14 these guys, but it's the way to go.15 These manufacturers by and16 large, you know, I saw them, I watched17 them, I heard them talk today. You know,18 they got a lot at stake, and they're19 throwing a lot of their own money into the20 product.21 We represent a company called22 GenPack who started plastics. Again, that23 goes back into the 1980s. They were the24 only guys doing it, the only guys doing25 252 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 it. I was selling a foam hot dog2 container to Wawa; they threw me out and3 they went with that product there. They4 went with the worst product. There's5 nothing you can do with that except put it6 in a landfill. At least at that time, we7 were taking that hotdog container, and8 plastics again was trying to recycle it.9 They're making park benches, et cetera.10 So, you know, polystyrene in11 conclusion. And thanks. Appreciate it.12
Polystyrene,15 there's nothing wrong with the product.16 It's cheap, it's cheap, it works.17 When McDonald's threw 'em out a18 a couple of years ago, they had all kinds19 of problems with waste of their food.20 They couldn't keep the temperatures21 correct. They were throwing food out.22 In my notes, it talks about the23 operators and how they're wasting money24 because, you know, they have to move off25 253 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 of this product and that.2 I broke down your school bid,3 the City of Philadelphia school bid.4 Every year, 13,000 cases, 13,000 cases of5 those school trays, those 105s, that's6 6,500,000 school trays. By using7 polystyrene -- and these are hard facts.8 By using polystyrene, you save close to9 $300,000, and that's one item on that bid.10 Now, you wasn't switch that out11 because it's out of your budget, but12 that's not your answer either.13 We have to really work together.14 Banning is not the way to go. It's15 managing the material, it's recycling.16 And what I take from this17 meeting is that you do need some support18 from these manufacturers. And if they're19 going to make a go of it in Philadelphia,20 in this area, they're going to have to21 support you.22
Okay. Thank23 you very much. Thank you for your24 testimony.25 254 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751
The final4 panel is John Manning, Peter Blackett, and5 Mike Levy.6 (Witnesses come forward.)7
Good9 afternoon. Please identify yourself for10 the record.11
Yes. My name is12 Jack Manning. 16 Having been born and raised in17 the Philadelphia area, my passion for the18 City and the impact on my life is19 profound. My father worked for over 3020 years at one of the refineries along the21 Delaware River. My father-in-law worked22 right downtown, very close to here, at a23 printing and lithograph company for 4024 years, until it went out of business. 4 I have chosen to work in the5 chemical and plastics industry for the6 last 36 years, starting my career across7 the river, in South Jersey. It's an8 industry that I'm extremely proud to be a9 part of, not only because of the positive10 economic health and lifestyle benefits of11 our products, but because of the thousands12 of dedicated and talented coworkers that13 I've been privileged to work beside over14 these many years. 19 Our Beaver Valley plant20 currently employs about 275 people, of21 which about 170 are members of the United22 Steel Workers Local 1074. They have also23 sent a letter signed by Director John24 DeFazio of USW District 10 opposing the25 256 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 City Council Bill No. 2 We collectively stand in3 opposition to this bill because, among the4 products our Beaver Valley plant produces5 is expandable polystyrene. 2 The average age of our union3 employees is 50 average, their length of4 service is 17 years, with almost a quarter5 of them having dedicated over 25 years or6 more of working at our plant. 3 The impact on the local economy is4 significant, especially with statewide5 government revenues already running at a6 deficit. 25 259 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 I assure you, my wife and her2 friends didn't start this effort because I3 work in a chemical industry. They did so4 because we all take pride in our5 communities and neighborhoods. 10 Based on our experience, it is11 my personal belief that switching to12 compostable or biodegradable forms of food13 packaging will not discourage littering14 but will only serve to further encourage15 the practice by those who already litter,16 and they will think that it is acceptable17 to litter because it will eventually18 degrade over time. 11 But most importantly, it needs12 to be one that continues to provide13 sustainable incomes and jobs for the14 long-term prosperity and well-being of all15 of our citizens. 18 And that is why we also believe19 we are a part of the solution, not a part20 of the problem. 23 For the sake of our employees,24 our families, and consumers everywhere, I25 261 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 urge you to take a more pragmatic look and2 approach to the problem. 6 I truly appreciate the fact that7 you're not bringing this forward. 11 One of my wife's favorite12 sayings is from Gandhi, that you must13 become what you want to change. And it's14 apparent that your practice of recycling15 has been taken to the point that it's a16 great model for a lot of people. 18
And we19 appreciate your patience in waiting and20 your testimony and also make a comment to21 work with you to try to get to where we22 want to be.23
Please25 262 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 identify yourself for the record, sir.2
Sure. 3 I'm Mike Levy, with the Plastics4 Foodservice Packaging Group, and I5 represent a lot of these last two panel6 folks. 15 But I want to try to put this in16 perspective. You and I grew up in the17 same generation. I'm kind of looking at18 this, and you mentioned things were19 simpler. And it's true. 24 And if you think about it, you25 263 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 turn ahead 50 years like that, and where2 we are today is, not only are the issues3 more complex, but society has really4 changed everything. The fact that we have5 polystyrene and paperboard and compostable6 packaging is really a reflection of what's7 happening in society. 13 But the kind of packaging that's14 out there -- not just polystyrene foam,15 but a lot of plastics -- is there for a16 reason: It's sanitation. My grandmother17 ran a meat market in Brooklyn, and as a18 kid, I remember all of the meat that was19 wrapped up with the paper and the20 drippiness and we'd put the sawdust on the21 floor and everything else. 23 The fact that you've got24 polystyrene and things like that in the25 264 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 meat trays and the way they're wrapped, a2 lot of that is driven by sanitation. 6 But here's where I really want7 to go. And, again, I thank you for your8 patience, but when I said things are more9 complex, you made the comment about with10 the Obama Administration, yow know, and11 what about global warming and what about12 energy. Well, that's exactly -- I wish13 the kids were still here. 15 What old-timers like myself are16 learning is that when you start looking at17 all of these impacts -- you know, it takes18 raw materials to make anything, and I19 don't care if it's the things on your20 table or polystyrene or whatever. You're21 going to use energy, you're going to22 generate air pollution, water pollution,23 solid waste. 25 265 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 And I know the simple solution2 is just make it degradable and make it go3 away. We've learned, like everyone else,4 that everything's a trade-off and there's5 a lot of different things. If I told you6 right now that instead of the food-service7 product that we're using today, we're8 going to go to this new one and it's going9 to greenhouse gases significantly and10 increase energy and increase the amount of11 waste, 'cause it will be heavier, you're12 probably going to say, Well, wait a13 minute, you know, what about that? 15 So I'm not here to say, Gee, you16 ought to be banning everything else and17 promote polystyrene. 6 But on the recycling side, we7 also had set up with that recycler to do a8 charter school university. 12 As the market fell apart, that's13 put on hold. You heard Dart Container say14 they're going to make a commitment to beef15 that up. 2 So I want to leave you with that3 we do want to work with you. I also want4 to leave you that we would encourage5 you -- we just gave $10,000 over the last6 couple of months, six months, to Phoebe7 Coles in a detailed program to address all8 litter. None of the other materials has9 stepped up to do that. We would encourage10 you to do that to get real litter11 reduction. 14 And I think that Big Belly15 Program that you did is a real step in the16 right direction -- not just for recycling,17 but the fact that you've got now these18 containers that have a cover on them, and19 that's going to go a long way to reduce20 the amount of litter. 22 So I'll finally leave with you a23 thing that Pennsylvania has one of the24 highest recycling rates. And when you25 268 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 started that, you really pushed it forward2 with education. 7 So, again, we pledge to work8 with you. 10 Councilman Kenney had to take a11 personal break. 14
I just wanted to15 add one more thing. I'm a manufacturing16 guy and make things; that's what I've done17 for 35 years.18 And when I hear statements about19 industry needs to adapt or people need to20 realize their jobs are going away and they21 can get another job, doing something else,22 that's really easy to say, but if you're23 someone who's in their mid-50s and they've24 work 35 years at a particular plant,25 269 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 making a good product, it's not exactly2 something you want to hear any more than3 the auto guys want to hear, Well, we'll4 just convert over to something else, and5 you'll find another job someplace else.6 So I just wanted to kind of add7 that statement.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I9 understand and I respect that.10 I was a businessman myself -- in11 the restaurant business, of all things --12 and I understand the challenges. I don't13 think there's any of us who don't14 understand those challenges.15 But you got to begin somewhere.16 And, you know, we tried two years ago to17 get this conversation going. As18 Councilman Kenney said, we had numerous19 meetings outside of these chambers, in our20 offices, and it really -- unless somebody21 can show me different, the ball never22 advanced from then.23 So the frustration builds up, we24 got trash problems. As Councilman Jones25 270 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 said, we're trying to figure out some ways2 in which we can get a budget done here and3 reduce our costs across the board. Trash4 is a big chunk of our budget. And5 recycling and other things like that may6 help us get our numbers down.7 And I understand what you're8 saying, sir. I mean, for every action,9 there's a reaction. Everything that we do10 --11
I think with what12 we're doing with KPB, it should be a13 signal that that's going to help an awful14 lot on the litter side, and it's going to15 help you on the waste reduction, so --16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We17 recognize that, and as Councilman --18 that's why he's holding up the bills. And19 we have some time to work this out.20 Thank you. Thank you all for21 coming in.22 Is there anybody else who wishes23 to testify?24 (No response.)25 271 5/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT - BILLS 090064, 74, 751 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Seeing2 none, this concludes the public meeting on3 the Environmental Committee. Thank you4 all for your patience and for coming out5 on a Friday. We appreciate it.6 (Proceedings end at 2:57 p.m.)7 * * *8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 272 C E R T I F I C A T E2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the4 proceedings of the City of Philadelphia5 Council Committee on the Environment are6 contained fully and accurately in the7 stenographic notes taken by me on Friday,8 May 1, 2009, and that this is a true and9 correct statement of same.10 11 12 13 14 15 __________________________________ 16 JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter17 18 19 20 (The foregoing certification of21 this transcript does not apply to any22 reproduction of the same by any means, unless23 under the direct control and/or supervision of24 the certifying reporter.)25