do that but but typically the gate the idea is that the gate would be closed and that the shared
access with any other agency would be coordinated through water department employees that's right
yeah okay other questions questions from our attorney hillary emerson not at this time mr
chair questions or comments from the virtual audience or the present audience um i have a few
questions for my witness um brian could you confirm that you heard my testimony and saw the exhibits
yes i can confirm that and can you verify that everything i represented is true and correct
i do yes and will you adopt my testimony i will yes thank you um virtual audience
no hands at this time sir thank you planning commission amy boy with the planning commission
a y b o id do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do
please proceed the comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning to the existing i2 medium
industrial the appellant has demonstrated that there is sufficient parking to support this use
including three angled parking spaces and one van space adjacent to the property the planning
commission recommends that the board grant the requested variance for parking thank you mi2025
0 0 7 3 6 7 7 65 south 43rd street i vote yes michael johns my vote is yes yes then my vote
is yes to that a graham my vote is yes my mcadams my vote is yes i win my vote is yes thank you
Thank you.
All right.
Number five, MI 2025-003-200-2005-07 East Sargent Street.
Alan Nockamson is the attorney.
Mr. Nockamson, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yes, Alan Nockamson, A-L-A-N, last name's Nockamson, N-O-C-H-U-M-S-O-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Mr. Nockamson, can you identify your client in relationship to the property?
Yes, the left of me is John Santiago, the owner of the property.
And there's a letter of non-opposition from East Kensington neighbors.
No, opposition.
opposition opposition yeah opposition and a letter of opposition from council member squilla oh my
goodness yes um our vice chair has a few questions good afternoon have you submitted your documents
and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing yes we have and do you waive the reading of the
refusals and stipulate to the accuracy we do okay thank you you can see what you can thank you
Hi. So I'm here to present 2005-07 East Sargent Street. This is the front of the property.
The zoning classification is RSA 5. As you can see, this looks nothing like a single
family residence. And this property has a long history of non-residential use, 1968.
There's a permit in the file for storage of glass and a 1981 assembly of aluminum products.
So during my presentation, we'll go through 10 exhibits, which will explain this case.
uh which will explain this case uh first exhibit is the actual notice or refusal as i indicated
First exhibit.
this is an rsa5 property but i think only in in name um in classification um what we're trying
to do here is have personal vehicle repair and maintenance and equipment and material storage
yard and uh building materials um i i think the issue here is there's really no great way to
explain what Mr. Santiago does here. All he does is fix cars that he like, you know, wants to work
on. He's retired now, so he's doing less and less of it. But he takes cars, like he used to work at
a junkyard, and he takes cars that, you know, he wanted to fix up and, you know, once in a while
sell them. He's never used it as an auto, this place is an auto mechanic place. Although, you
know, I asked Mr. Santiago, because, you know, during a community meeting, there seemed to be
some neighbors on that block that used Mr. Santiago's services, but he never charged
for it. It was just being neighborly. There was a young couple who moved on the block
who was frustrated with the fact that there was this place here. I mean, ultimately, that's
what happened. And there was a violation that came across L&I's desk, or there's a violation
now of record. Mr. Santiago's owned this property since 2013. He knew no better that he needed
to get a special permit like you know again to the outside world this looks like this would be here
um as for this particular use so we did meet with the east kenton neighbors association
um and um it was a close vote i think it was uh nine to five against um but it really depends on
you know that given day with previous council who i don't think kind of explained the situation well
there was another zoning permit application and another appeal. And when that happened,
there was actually support of nine to one. So maybe they knew better than me. They actually
got nine support and one against, well, you know, but we'll see what happens here today.
But I think it's just a really hard situation because he's not an auto mechanic. He doesn't
want to be an auto mechanic. And I think that's what the neighborhood struggled with. They said,
well you know we know you john we trust you you've been here on this block for now 13 years but the
the zone a runs with the land so one of the things that we would you know be willing to do if the
board feels so inclined to grant the variance is to do a temporary variance we would ask for five
years but we defer to the board of how much that would be another issue was the hours of operation
You know, there was no defined hours of operation here. So, you know, we would agree to CERN limited hours of operation. And here, you know, John would do nine to seven, what's called Monday through Saturday. Again, he's not open to the public, but this is when he would actually do the work.
And the third proviso would be obviously all vehicles stored inside, but there's plenty of room. I think it easily can fit 10 cars in here.
So if you look at the photographs, this is the front of the property. This is the orange notice posting.
And this is the property. I mean, I don't think there's any dispute that this property has been here forever, but this is far back as Google Earth goes since 2008.
And then this is East Sargent Street to the right of the property, to the left of the
property.
And then these are the interior photos.
So you can see it's like, you know, just him and his friends working on stuff.
He's not selling to the outside public, but this is how it's been forever.
and then again kind of just seeing it we got an architect i mean to do kind of a floor plan to
kind of see that i mean i guess you can fit four cars in here like the way that it's put out there
but we haven't made any changes to the building structure um so um you know anyway we met with
the community on October 8th at 7 p.m., 204 addresses were notified at the community meeting.
List of those addresses, proof of mailing to those addresses, our application for appeal that
we filed on John's behalf, and then the deed to the property showing it that he owns the property,
and then finally our tax clearance certificate. I would just ask that, John, if you can hit the
button there, right there, it'll turn on the mic. John, pull close to if you would. No,
no you don't have to get just pull it towards you yeah and then hit the green so the green lights on
uh there you go perfect all right could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
john santiago could you spell it
j-o-h-n-s-a-n-t-i-a-g-o thank you
a n t i a g o thank you do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the
truth yes counsel yes john you heard everything i had to state today about your zoning matter
yes is it true and correct yes and do you adopt this your own testimony
yes okay thank you questions from the board yeah could you just tell me what's going on in the
rear of the property sorry mike what's happening in the rear of the property let me see let me
share my screen again i don't think we have an aerial view um is there any work is there any
area in the rear of the property you're doing any work or everything is interior
it's okay you don't have to be yeah i think it's a little nervous yeah i have to be nervous yeah
yeah so everything's interior yeah okay so it's just a rear yard just but nothing
then no cars or anything like that stored in okay thank you all the questions yes okay yeah
yep go ahead i can't get it i'm sorry michael they're jumping they did they don't go ahead
confused about what we're really doing here so you say he's not
charging or what is this this is just where he he basically worked at a junkyard for many many
years you're retired john right yes and all he did was take cars that he was interested in fixing up
and that's what he did in there so he doesn't charge third parties to like come in there and
fix their their cars he takes cars that are like dilapidated or needs like some tlc hobby it's his
hobby and that's what he likes to do of course of course the old course okay 79 the old course
there you go okay so okay again I guess I'm a little confused about why we need
zoning if he's just working on his own because we have a violation notice and I think that's
what the violation notice was for what let me I'll take a look hold on let me pull it up
here and i think that's the issue it's like if you just had a garage right if you know again i don't
live in the suburbs but if you live in the suburbs and you're handy which i'm not but like you know
you would lift the hood and you would fix it up and you'd have a fun time with like maybe a classic
car he does in the city there you know they thought of this as more of a commercial use which is not
but like we're here in in response to a violation notice but let me go get the we were here we were
here before a year ago right that's right with different council so and i and i think it's just
a really tough case um but that's why we also added previously we're here and we're past the
year period for for just personal vehicle repair and maintenance and equipment we added the the
the additional condition of material storage yard and buildings we find that that's more appropriate
because he's storing cars there fixing them for his own purposes but we kept the personal vehicle
and repair and maintenance because it kind of fits in there but it doesn't because
he is fixing cars up but not to the general for the general public if that makes sense
so he's fixing them up for what and then what does he do with them when they are fixed up
i'll take it to the car show a way to a car show car show ah okay like the one they just said yeah
yeah okay all right and they're that kind of classic card that they're yeah okay and as so
okay all right i again i'm still having a little problem with understanding the why is here yeah
yeah so i can share my screen if i can again this is the this is the violation notice in order to
correct uh dated april 9th of 2025. let's see and then one of the things is
right here
i mean i think there may be let me see what other violations are i haven't looked at this
in some time you have to obtain a co as well for that use uh you know they had the thing about you
have to obtain a vehicle repair license once you obtain the co and then uh something about
fire extinguishers which i you know obviously it's not zoning related we can deal with
um and that's basically it so three of the four violations have to do with the fact that they
And that's basically it. So, three of the four violations have to do with the fact that they believe this is an auto repair shop. So, we're just trying to get that use. You know, again, it's not a perfect situation. Oh, well, let's see. Hold on a second. Let me saw something.
believe this
Can you move it back?
Oh, yeah. Which way you want me to go?
Can you?
Go back up this way.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hold on.
This was the first one. I can make it bigger, too.
Thank you.
What does it mean by return for subject premises to its approved usage?
What was the approved usage?
Well, the last approved usage was in 1981. It was the assembly of aluminum products.
And before that, in 1968, it was the storage of glass.
Those are the two things of public record, which is on the notice of refusal.
so okay I have a question about what's happening on the second level
what's happening on the second level John anything anything
Michael can we finally get to you oh well by the way I was informed that the fire extinguisher
violation was complied with okay so okay michael so so so yeah so i just wanted to
go back to the um rco's opposition to the um project or site um what so the only issues that
you could sort of discern were was the fact that they know him and if this use is sort of
in perpetuity it runs with the land then some he leaves moves whatever somebody else can move
right in and just start you know a car repair shop and now cars are parked on the street and
they've got all those issues that was that what you understood that's what i understood they also
didn't understand because they're like well you don't really fall into any of these definitions
and i think we don't but like you know so i think that was the hard thing for them to
under you know to kind of rack their brains with too because we're not a commercial use here um
right but we have a so they so they don't have our cars out on this our cars being parked on the
pavement that he's working on our cars being parked in the name you know i mean are all the
cars being kept within that uh repair or that garage when not being worked on yes inside the
garage yes okay okay maybe i missed it but i never actually heard what the what's going on on the
second floor nothing there's is there anything do you have because there's a balcony on the
second floor yes a storage storage storage yes storage storage okay and we can we can even say
like just to state that this that the second floor will be for use of storage only of materials
that could be another proviso i mean it's not big enough space to do anything i think part of the
issue here is that this is a commercial building and it's a commercial garage and he even though
he was doing personal activities he was doing it on six cars which to any lay person would look like
a commercial business so like i think the violations while i understand in this unique case
were confusing makes sense like from a from a building and use standpoint i mean the neighbors
are not wrong he's just not charging money for it it's still commercial volume and use of the
building that's right and admittedly his english is not great so i can't say what he conveyed to
the inspector at the time so like you know that's probably it's also still a car repair shop like
he's repairing cars that's exactly whether like i think the i think uh fixating on the exchange of
funds for our goods for services is like i get why i get where the neighbors were coming from
i'm glad except this like say you're in the suburbs and you like say you're jay leno right
Jay Leno's garage is on his public property, attached to his house.
Yeah, but it's attached to his house on his private property.
That's the difference.
Well, that's the difference.
If we had a living arrangement on the second floor, which we don't, but if we had a living arrangement, would that change the equation then?
I don't think so.
It would still look like a commercial property in the city context that it is in, with a dwelling unit above a commercial property.
It's a commercial building.
I buy a Walgreens and I start mixing up potions in the Walgreens. It doesn't make it not a commercial building. It's because I'm doing it for fun. It's a commercial building. So.
I buy a Walgreens and I start mixing up potions in the Walgreens.
all right any other questions well i guess there was some suggestion that maybe the neighbors would
be okay with a proviso that they approve uses equipment and material storage yards and buildings
only but that wouldn't help here because i'm going to make that temper you're still but even
even with that part of the what's going on here is this fixing up of these cars so that i don't
think that fits under that i don't i mean you know what i mean yeah were they opposed to a temporary
two year three year kind of thing i yeah you understand that i'm just saying
there's an offering there was an offering at the community meeting okay there was and but
with that offering like you know admittedly they more people voted against it than for it but i
think i it was an interesting meeting even the one of the neighbors who john did work for for free
was like you know concerned and i don't know how they voted but they definitely had strong questions
and I think it's a difficult situation because I see it runs with the land and that's why I
recommended a temporary variance and what I heard was three years obviously we would want five
because it's an expensive process but if if we could just even do three years um I think that
would be helpful to get rid of that violation have them continue doing the work I don't know
how enforceable it is but we would only want it for our own personal use we're not selling to the
general public our services but you just said that he did some work for neighbors so he never
he never took compensation i asked that that doesn't change the fact that i know do auto repair