And real quickly, on the recent legislation that's been passed expanding the cost of recording the deeds and the revenue subsequently generated by that recording to go towards the Housing Trust Fund, do you have a sense of what those numbers will be? MS DECKER: Do you have the -- it increased by -- Housing Trust Fund increased by $30. And so, let's say, we're at least 100,000 deeds per year, so if you multiply that it's about 3 million approximately.
The volumes ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 427 fluctuates somewhat, but that gives you a ballpark idea of how much money was collected.
Okay. Let me ask you this, and you may not answer -- be able to answer this because I know you're not on the front line in terms of the actual recording of the actual deeds, but from your staff have you heard any response from the public in terms of being a little disgruntled about the additional costs, because that was one of the concerns that we had, this was the second increase in three or four years, albeit for a worthy cause in our minds. Have you -- any staff members indicated that there's any concern raised by individuals recording their deeds with the new increase in fees?
We -- we do hear some comments, and basically they ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 428 pretty much blame me for increasing the fees too much, yeah, but it is not the majority. So there's some complaints, but I wouldn't say it's the majority of filers.
They blame me, yes, that Commissioner Decker, she keeps increasing --
Thank you. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Council Member Greenlee.
Thank you, Mr. President. Good afternoon, Commissioner. So you don't rat us out when they complain to you -- MS. DECKER I do not.
-- and ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 429 say it wasn't enough?
We do not, no. 3 No. 4 COUNCIL MEMBER GREENLEE: Thank you. First, I just want to say for the record, I know we've talked many times about thief of property, fraudulent deeds, and I know we haven't always totally agreed on how to go about it, but I appreciate all the efforts and the help you've given over the years. Let me just on -- a very general question on that. Have you seen -- because our office hasn't received the complaints we used to in the past. Have you seen any either up take or downslide on complaints of false deeds --
I would say we have about half, half the number that ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 430 we had in prior years.
Okay. So does it appear that the electronic filing has had any effect one way or the other because I know there was some concern that an electronic filing might make it easier to the steal, but you haven't seen that?
Good. Good, good, good. This other question I'm going to ask, and I don't know totally the whole background, but I was asked about this. Geographical information services -- service position, GIS 2, I guess it's called, what exactly is it? What do you do -- what does that position do?
Well, we -- that is for the legal descriptions of deeds, basically the meets and bounds descriptions, and so we have ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 431 some GIS staff people who apply changes. So when we review deed, if there is a resulting change in the property perimeter, what's known as "the metes and bounds description," where there's either a subdivison or a consolidation, that changes is then drafted onto an GIS coverage, so the actual line, the perimeter of the property, is then modified, and that will show you land coverage for a particular document and a particular date.
Okay. Is there such a thing as GIS3? Is there a position?
I don't know if there's a 3 or if it's a slightly different title. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 432
Okay. Who is the manager of that position or that department -- that section 4 section?
His title is a GIS2 who is paid out of class as a supervisor. He's our private supervisor.
Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 433 Commissioner, you testified about various automated services initiatives in the department that have been pursued over the last several years. Can you please describe for us how these initiatives resulted in efficiency gains such as the need for fewer staffers or improved customer service?
Uh-huh. Sure. In the -- in the deed, I'll call it the deed recording area, we now do electronic recording, and prior to electronic recording we did transition to an automated system as well. And I think the initial implementation of the system resulted in 10 less staff persons. And with the introduction of electronic recording, I would that our volume percentage of documents submitted electronically is a little over 50 percent at this, it keeps increasing, and that enables us to achieve better customer service. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 434 When a document comes in and it is electronically recorded, the recording -- the actual recording process where we can say legally this deed is recorded of record, takes place the same day in contrast to a deed that might be either mailed in or walked in. We have sometimes -- some title companies prefer to have runners who bring packets of documents in and that turnaround time can be anywhere, but I would say approximately no more than three days. So the -- there has been a combination of a reduction in staff as well as an improvement -- a pretty good improvement in customer service by facilitating the turnaround time. As I said, with electronic recording, the document is returned the same day.
Would there be additional savings from -- except in the case of hardship ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 435 requiring electronic recording.
That's correct. Right. You have to give everybody the opportunity to bring in a document, so we would never do that, no. 11
We can give you the 10 percent, the staff reduction and staff persons.
So with benefits and pension and all that stuff it's 800,000 a year?
Probably about ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 436 that. That's correct.
Thank you you've testified in the past years about -- I'm sorry. We heard in an Appropriations Committee Hearing recently about a proposed new office of property data. What is the relationship between the records department and that new office?
Well, we -- we meet with the office and we participate and provide any information that they require. So when there are meetings, you know, and so on and so forth, we do participate with them and coordinate our efforts with the efforts of their particular department -- their unit rather.
I understand that they work -- are looking at coordination of data across city ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 437 departments.
With the end goal of a better coordination and more streamlined process and I guess better interfaces and, again, coordination, of the information among land record agencies.
Has your staff been involved in developing the office or you just cooperate with it when they request?
And basically, your cooperation consist of providing whatever data they ask for?
Is -- do you have data about every single ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 438 property in the City currently?
We have -- as deeds are recorded, we keep that information so it -- provided the deed is submitted to us for recording, we would have ownership information for properties in the city.
I guess another way to say it is: Do you have it in an electronic database, not in the paper deeds?
And so they started with your database that you keep updated for them?
And then they're just adding information to your database related to each specific property?
And -- okay. I -- thank you, Mr. Chair. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 439
Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Council Member Kenney.
Thank you, Mr. President. Commissioner, what was the date that -- the effective date of the prohibition on outside individuals obtaining caps enforced?
Didn't we have a period of time when the bill 13 was passed and signed, and then it was to go into effect after a certain period of time?
That's correct. It was 45 days. It became effective in 45 days of the passage, and that was when -- I think that was January 20th that it.
What's ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 440 the condition of the room down there now? I mean, what's the atmosphere? I heard it was a bit chaotic for a while.
Well, it's very busy because we're -- you know, we're dealing with actually increased volume. So the staff is very busy, but the atmosphere is okay. I think many of the people understand the reason for the ordinance. We do prepare a -- you know, an information sheet, let's call it, that we distribute to individuals who come -- individuals and companies who come into the department, and to that unit, to try to explain the reason for the law, the changes that take place, and explain what the new process is. So I think most individuals recognize the reason for the change and we have a few people who grumble, but it's -- I wouldn't say it's the majority. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 441
I mean, is the grumbling slowing down or are they starting to understand they can't get it?
-- your insurance company, your doctor and you, your in there, correct?
That's correct. That's correct. It's available to, you know, the -- some -- the agencies that you've mentioned. Law enforcement, we're very cooperative. We try to get them all the information they need when they need it, so I haven't had any complaints about that at all. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 442
Now, in the prior process, were people going in for the records themselves or were your folks having to retrieve it for them? Were they have perusing the accident reports on their own or they had to ask for a specific report or --
In the -- in the prior process, we had individual -- most individuals purchased the report that they needed for whatever reason, either they were the victim in an accident or they were representing someone who was in an accident be it a doctor or a lawyer. There were a group of individuals who were from companies, there were companies who were -- we call them readers -- who were permitted to peruse the reports but didn't necessarily purchase them.
What did you -- what did you -- what were they called. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 443
Because really what they did was they would read the doc -- read the report and transcribe describe information but would not purchase it. So they were permitted -- prior to the implementation of the ordinance, they were permitted to do that. They are no longer permitted to do that. So other individuals, again, individuals, insurance companies, law firms, come in, and they generally will purchase a copy of the report.
How do we authorize -- how do you know that they're authorized for certain to do it? ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 444
We requested -- we require an affidavit form be completed, and that affidavit form actually will have to identify what their capacity is; is it the individual, the victim or a party to the accident; is it a lawyer who is representing a client who was involved in an auto accident; is it an insurance company, and they have to complete the affidavit form and tell us who they are. You had -- when I was here for the hearing for the ordinance, your specific request was that we would be able to provide tracability; that if you wanted to know who purchased that report and which report it was, we would be able to provide that information to you. So this affidavit firm in combination with the standard application form where they identify, you know, the date of the accident and ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 445 the particular -- it's called the District Control Number where they identify that -- those two items are kept together, and we keep that information together so we have tracability and audit capability.
And since January, you feel that it's been workable for your folks, this --
Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Council Member Bass.
I'm very well. Thank you. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 446
Just a couple -- well, actually, just really one question. One of things that came to our attention -- came to my attention, you know, back in January when we first started, we have a couple of folks in our office who are attorneys and who have dealt with the Records Department in various capacities, and one of the things that came out was the process of banks actually foreclosing on properties and not recording the deeds right away so that they don't, in essence, have to pay the real estate taxes that may be due on the property and also have responsibility for those properties in terms of cleaning and, you know, just maintaining them while they're in the foreclosure process and preparing for sale. And so as I was wondering, ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 447 number one, if you were aware of that and, number two, if you think that there's something the Records Department could do to, I don't know, push or pursue the banks or financial institutions to do the right thing and record those deeds right away so that, you know, they would pay the real estate taxes and that they would accept the responsibility of, you know, having taken back ownership of that property?
We would only be in the periphery of being able to do something because generally we -- we receive the documents, so I would have no way, you know, normally of knowing which banks were going to foreclose; however, we do work with a lot of the other organizations and agencies and, you know, we have participated in some training with the -- you know, Judgment Rizzo --
Correct. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 448
-- and so I can -- yeah. Right. So I can connect a little bit more with her in that issue. We also work in another capacity with members of the Bar Association, both Pennsylvania and Philadelphia, and we certainly could, you know, connect with them a little by better to see -- and also the nonprofits. We have a fraudulent Conveyance Task Force where we all convene and work together. We have two groups, a legislative committee and an education committee. So we have a lot of relationship there, and I will make it a point to work with them and to understand if here is something that we can do to assist in that.
Okay. And we'll -- you know, if we have any ideas or thoughts or suggestions that could be helpful to help move it along because, you know, it could be years before property gets back on the market and again the real estate taxes go unpaid, the lawn goes unmowed, the property, you know, falls ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 449 into disrepair, and so it affects the entire community so --
So you know, we'll be in touch I'm sure and talk about that issue further. And second, I just wanted to make note, I just really wanted to thank you for providing the information in terms of the composition of your staff up front without having to be asked for it. I just think it's -- it's good information. It looks like you -- you know, you do have a commitment to making sure that your supervisory staff looks like Philadelphia. So thank you.
Thank you, Councilwoman. And the Chair recognizes Council Member Jones.
Thank ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 450 you, Mr. President. Three quick questions and one deals with the -- from five years ago. Basically, Councilman Green and the Technology Committee wanted us to be less dependent upon paper. In your own words, has the needle moved in the right direction? And if so, how?
Yes. Yes. Definitely the needle has moved in the right direction within the department, the Records Department.
Again, we have an automated system for the deeds and the mortgages that we mentioned. We also implemented electric recording, so there's no paper involved in that. Documents are submitted by, we call them trusted business partners, which are generally companies like title insurance companies or law firms that's -- and ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 451 banks that specialize in these types of land documents. They submit the information in a secure way to the department. There's no paper. The payment is made by ACH, Automated Clearinghouse Payments, so there's no exchange or manipulation of checks. And as I mentioned, there's over -- now we're inching up a little bit. Over 50 percent of our documents, our volume is done electrically. We -- we are also responsible -- we work with the Board of Ethics, and we're sort of the back end of processing for campaign finance and financial disclosures, so campaign finance is fully electronic, as you probably know. So that was the change. There's no paper other than an affidavit form that is notarized that is submitted initially to us. The rest of the process, there's seven ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 452 cycles a year, and all of that is done electronically. There's no paper. And also, financial disclosures for elected officials and also executive staff through the administration, and that is also electronic. We accept electronic signatures. Everything is done online. We have a rate of about 75 percent now, and each year we increase that so we get people more and more comfortable with dealing with electronic systems.
Has that realized -- the other shoe to fall on that is: Has that realized any savings? And I -- my whole -- this is not a trick question. Have you experienced savings because of that?
Well, definitely with the automated system for the deeds that I mentioned we initially required ten less staff persons for that system, and we have ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 453 increased the customer satisfaction where the turnaround time is much quicker so people don't have to wait to know, you know, for weeks whether or not their document was recorded and returned. And I would say for financial disclosures, we -- again, our ability to process more quickly, we -- we always had just a few people working on it, and now we're able to have those few people work and turnaround much more quickly.
Are you responsible for the records for our health centers?
The -- that is really under the purview of the Health Department, so you would -- we do have some of their records which --
Which records of theirs do you have? MS DECKER: Well, only their -- they have really moved over -- ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 454 transitioned to electronic records, and we just have a few of their records that are at -- stored off site. But other than that, they really have made the transition to electronic to records.
So did you in any way keep the health records of the people that passed through our health center?
Okay. And do you provide backup service for these departments, like emergency management in case of disaster, or is that done individually by the department?
In the MSB, I remember as a young administrator having to go down into the concourse and look at things ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 455 like Sanborne maps and look at plot plans and did that on actual microfiche, so you know how far back that was. How has that -- and when we actually went in to look at a property to see permits in L & I, you went into a physical file 6 that could go all the way back to, you know, the 1800s. Is -- how have you -- have you been involved in changing, codifying, and then scanning and committing to electronics that process.
Well, L & I has converted all -- I believe all of those things that you mention into electronic data. I don't believe they're working with paper any longer. And from the Records Department, some of the maps that we've dealt with are all electronic, so we don't deal with paper maps either in the Records Department.
Okay. And finally, under the voter ID issue where they're requiring photo ID, is ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 456 there a way for the Records Department to work with the Commissioner's office to try to address some of that, particularly for people who have to validate ID or something like that? Is there a document or some source document when you go to a pole you need two piece -- you need to identify some tip of ID, can we assist them in coming up with a plan that is not catastrophic. We're going to get a beta testing probably in April, but the true test will be when we have presidential candidates and final decisions in the November election. And when we look at some of the lines we had just with the first Obama race, juxtapose that with people trying to scramble for ID, have you worked with them with a plan, whether it's just validating certain information that is held by the City in two ways and then issuing ID or is ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 457 some -- have we --
We haven't been asked to did that, but if we are asked we are certainly willing to work with them and assist in the --
-- okay, because I really we -- we need people who deal with these kinds of records on a daily basis that can say, well, here's a -- proof that a person exists, this is something that we control within the City of Philadelphia working. You may have photographers, you may have other things that if we patch this together we can avoid a catastrophe. And I know this is not your burden to bear along, I really realize that, but when you start thinking about dangling chads and, you know, what happened -- how the election was ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 458 in a lot of people's opinion stolen from Al Gore, you multiply that by 10, the angst that will come if a close election results in some type of defalcation with the process. I'm calling on great minds that might be put to task to avert that catastrophe. So if you could work with the Commissioner --
-- on coming up with a plan that maybe gets beta tested or at least examined in this -- maybe it's a little too late for this, but at least some type of hail Mary plan for November.
Thank you, Councilman. And the Chair ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 459 recognizes Council Member Green.
Thank you, Mr. President. I guess I have one final question and, that is, some of your outside contracts, that's Section 55, , the contract for record appraisal is proposed to increase from just under 6,000 in FY12 to almost 34,000 in FY 13. Can you describe what record appraisal is?
Yeah. I don't think -- if I'm thinking about it -- yeah. I -- national appraisal, what that is, is a company that comes in and -- we have a lot of very valueable documents in terms of the history of the city, as you probably are aware, dating back to the City Charter from William Penn, 1701. We have many valuable land records dating back to the 1600's. We have a tax register, significant documents about ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 460 Philadelphia during the Civil War, the events leading up to the Civil War -- anyway, so many important pieces of information, and we have worked with that company in the past to come in. They actually do appraisals of your collection and also give you a sense of if there was a need to retore that collection or discrete items in it, what that amount would be. So we periodically do a check with the company to have them come in and look at our collection, and that's basically what that company does. It is an appraisal, except it's an appraisal of documents, and specifically of valuable documents.
Who's the curator of those records and makes sure that maintain them in an environment and keep them, you know, appropriately maintained?
We -- we have them as part of the Records ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 461 Department as they're in the City archives. It's an archives for government records obviously, and the -- it's kept -- they are kept in a facility which is -- has certain -- meet certain standards, environmental standards, in terms of temperature humidity, security, fire surpression, and so on and so forth. So it's actually part of city government.
Is everything that is in this, I guess, we'll call it valuable record area, cataloged?
Much of it is. We have it at least the high level. It may not be to every single discrete item level, but at a high level, yes, it is. And there's an inventory, you may have -- your staff may have seen it, it's called Phills, it's on Phills Online, that's part of the inventory, and we try to keep that updated as -- as we can. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 462
The reason I ask is local museums recently have had a general categorization of what's available in a file or a box or something like that and had items stolen that it -- were not individually cataloged that were in there. I assume there's some security as we're letting third parties into this site and also we know every person that goes into and out of this record area that's cataloged. There cameras in that area or no?
That is correct. It is a secured environment. The public is not permitted to go. And when it -- a patron request a particular document, we pull the -- the staff pulls the document. It's a card key access. It's a secured environment. So our staff will pull the item of interest and bring it out to a reading room ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 463 which -- where there are cameras and where we have staff who are observing the patrons in the room to prevent walkaway theft.
And there are cameras back where the data information is stored also?
Thank you, Councilman. We will -- any other questions for these witnesses? I'm sorry. With there being known, the Committee of the Whole is recessed until tomorrow April 4th at 10 a.m. Thank you very much. And I suggest to my members that you bring lunch tomorrow because it going to be a full day, and you may even have to bring ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 464 dinner. (Testimony concluded at 5:25 ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 465 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I, ANNETTE E. WALTON,