And when it comes to minority and women businesses, most minority and women business are not awarded contracts as primes. They usually are a subcontractor -- there may -- There may be a handful, correct, Angela? There may be a handful that are awarded as a prime, but most are subcontractors.
Well, I'll defer to some of my colleagues if they want any -- and added information in there. But if you could provide as ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 338 much detail and information as possible --
I'd appreciate that. One last question I have: On your capital budget Public Works contracts, the capital budget Public Works contracts is that -- the new contracts that have been going out have the project labor agreement as per the executive order from the Mayor's Office?
Okay. How do you determined whether it's been authorized? Has the --
It's a bid-by-bid by process, and I'm not ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 339 familiar with any myself, but I wouldn't have to know.
Okay. Well, Strike that. Let re-ask that question. Have their contracts that have gone out that have been authorized?
All right. I have no further questions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me make a couple of ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 340 suggestions because from my experience as a board member for over years at Independence Blue Cross, which has perhaps one of the best participation rates and employment rates, minorities and women in leadership and in management, and I've sat -- sat on the minority hiring contracting committee for over years, and we meet 10 quarterly, and the terms that they use 11 at the company is spend, not minority 12 participation goals. It's spend. At 13 the beginning of the fiscal they set a 14 number, a financial number, a dollar 15 number, they need to get to that 16 spend. 17 Every quarter folks from 18 various departments in charge of 19 procurement and contracting come in 20 and give us a status report as to where they are in the fiscal year with that particular spending goal, and that's I think -- I don't know if that's done, but that's the way we're ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 341 successful at it because that's the way we do it, number one. Number two, this lowest responsible bidder thing, look. We have to change the chart, and do what what we got to do. You've got to -- you have to do a physical analysis of what percent, percent, 9 percent more if it's stays here means, 10 not just what the contract number is. 11 Now, lowest responsible 12 means lowest bid, but the company 13 needs to be able to perform the work; 14 however, if a Philadelphia company 15 comes in at 10 percent, 12 percent higher and the employees are being paid here, there is an economic analysis that goes beyond just what the taxpayer is spending out of the general fund because you need to figure out the multiplier where it goes back into sales tax, wage tax, all of other things, spending capability, all of that. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 342 The other thing I would suggest, and maybe we need to change a law to do this, too, is when we cannot find a WBE, a NBE, a DBE company to fulfill that contract, we need to have another level of majority contract that has minority employment levels that make it make sense so they can participate through -- maybe through there a majority company, but they're participating because that company is here, it's getting the work, and there's enough of a majority complement and a majority complement of the employees to benefit from it. But unless you do it quarterly and you sit down and go over those number and you hold people accountable and you hold hold them to task and then try to be a little more creative in how you reach minority employee, whether they own the company or whether they work for the company -- and I think Independence Blue Cross is probably ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 343 about 49 minority in its employment complement -- and I think if you follow those models of companies that care about this and that make it part of their business ethic, I think we'll be better off than what we've been doing for the past years that 8 I've been here because this -- I mean, 9 look. I represent the city as a 10 whole. I want everybody working 11 because I think every dollar that we 12 spend negatively on police and courts 13 and prisons and DHS and all that stuff 14 is because people weren't working. 15 It's a high -- too high of an 16 unemployment rate. 17 So if we can attack the 18 unemployment rate either through 19 minority ownership or minority work, I 20 think that's where we should be going. And I get as frustrated as a lot of council members here, but I know people have taken this issue as something that they're going to talk ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 344 about every single time so kind of redefining their niche, but I'm telling you, I don't know how we approach this stuff. We should have one person trying to figure -- well, not one person but one group of people, thinking about this every day, and it's not just minority participation.
It's local business participation. It's state -- it's keeping them -- it's keeping the dollars as close to here as possible and still doing well by the taxpayer and that's not necessarily bid. The lowest bid don't get you there. If the workers are coming from New York to deliver that food, then that lowest bid is meaningless.
I'm aware. We've already had some discussion with your office on this already. I know we're looking at it closely.
But ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 345 that's got to be an integral part of the government's --
We need to buy tires, we need to buy oil filters, we need buy worker's gloves, we need to buy paint where can get it locally -- state -- not -- stateside if not nationally. I don't think it's anybody in the government doing that. I really don't.
Councilman, I'd just like to address the spend issue. One of the things we're doing right now is implementing a system, a B2G Now System, which will be tracking spend from the famous program into the tracking system which ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 346 will allow us to track dollars from primes to subs. So we're hoping to have that system completed by the end of this fiscal year, if not sooner.
What is your -- I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Go ahead.
This is to insure that the minorities and women-owned businesses who have participation roles in the contracts with the City are being paid, so the flow of dollars to insure they're going into the minority and women business community. The other component of the system that we're also implementing is certified payrolls which will allow us to attract those minority and women employees of public works firms to make sure there is a diversity in the employment of those --
But shouldn't they get points for that? Shouldn't that company who does a good job at having a diverse workforce, shouldn't they get points for that? ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 347
They actually get the contract for that because they sign that they will comply with our requirements.
Again, I'm not criticizing you. You've been criticized plenty. I'm just saying I think you really need to look at that model or a model like it because I think when you say -- when you use the word "spend" it means money. When you use their percentage, I don't know really what that means, and obviously you've not hitting those goals anyway, so I would look at a spend possibility. Thanks.
Councilman, I've got to think that lunch coming from New York can't be that green by way of fresh and locally produced, so that's another consideration. The Chair now -- speaking of Green, now recognizes Councilman ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 348 Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a four-letter word for anybody who would call this line questioning nesh and, that is, J-O-B-S. This is about jobs for Philadelphia citizens, and there's not a more important line of questioning that we can undertake here especially in this economy. So I just would like to note for the record that if the bill that was cointroduced by Councilman Goode and many others on City Council passes, it would require that employment of Philadelphia citizens be required in order to issue a contract. Right now the bill says 100 percent of the work performed by contracts would have to be performed by Philadelphia citizens, and I guess it's our view that a percentage requirement like that is an appropriate constitutional standard, ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 349 and I'm just wondering how you would enforce a provision like that through your RFP process. What would be the process of putting that into place?
Until I actually saw the final finished product, I don't know whether I can comment on that. We can -- with make awards now based on the legislation that's out there, the LBE legislation for instance. We make the award based on that legislation, and we have to go by the rules. So if we saw the new rules we would have to abide by them as far as the award is concerned. After the award, now it has to be put out for something -- somebody can control. We can't control it.
And you have the ability in the system I heard -- I think I heard through previous testimony of -- maybe it was another ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 350 department. I can't recall if it was this department or not. You have the ability to monitor payroll to determine whether or not the people employed by the contractors and subcontracts are Philadelphia residents?
In the capital budget hearing last week, I told each department that I'd be asking with -- if they were being funded with the ongoing 120 million dollar IT investment, be prepared to talk about whether those projects would result in future dollar savings. One of the city-wide business application identified by OIT is, quote, Admin Modernization Phase 2 Procurement Speed and Ad Picks ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 351 Replacement. This is in the handout provided to OIT -- by provided to OIT to Council in it's 2/19/2 229 briefing -- briefing. Can you describe what this project entails?
I think you're going to get a much better explanation from OIT themselves in a few minutes, Sir.
Well, as I said ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 352 in my previous testimony about the E Procurement system, we have been looking E Procurement, and that's what that is. That would cover it.
No. 10 Thanks. So can you describe what this project entails?
Well, what is called in the handout to Council on 2/19/12, quote, Admin Modernization Phase 2 Procurement Speed and Ad Picks Replacement, whatever that is.
So there was a -- an initiative formerly known as "ERP" that was on the table prior to the prioritization process. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 353 When we went through the piroitization process, we wanted to truly maximize the success of each initiative and make sure that the few dollars that we have are spent to handle the most urgent need.
So question is: Please describe what the project I just identified entails?
So we divided ERP into three phases; phase one being workforce management; phase two being the systems that supported the City's procurement process, which speed, ad picks; and phase three involved the financial management system.
So what does this project, phase two, entail? What will it mean? What does it do? How is it implemented?
We would ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 354 ultimately write a -- an RFP to bring in someone who will either modernize, replace, the current systems.
So you haven't identified a vendor or a protect for this city -- phase two of this city-wide business application initiative yet?
We haven't identified implementation vendors for any of the eight projects that you have.
Are they going to be completed during the FY13 fiscal year?
When would you project that this would be ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 355 completed?
I'm -- I would be speaking before even seeing the implementation responses, but a system of that size, scale and scope, I would imagine a two- to three-year-time horizon would be the time frame when we would expect a lot of these large city-wide systems would be completed from start to finish.
So I guess you can't answer this question: How much will it cost?
We have a range in mind of what a typical system for a city of our size would cost. I would -- I would ask that you don't push me there because we would then be supplying information that might --
That's fine. How will this project change procurement practices? How will what we do as a city differ in terms of workflow flow processes? ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 356
Yes. That's a good question. Clearly, we don't even talk about this projects being technology projects anymore. We really talk about these projects being business transformation projects. So the goal there is to try to automate as much of the process and -- as possible, make it as paperless as possible, automate all the interfaces and minimize the number of interfaces; make sure that if there's any public facing component to it, it's as intuitive and user friendly as possible. So, at the high level, those are universal goals for almost all the projects, the capital projects, that have been put on the table.
You've asked that question last week, and my response was ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 357 that these projects are failing. I don't have the discretion to decide whether I should let them run for another year or a couple of years or move on to another system. We're addressing these systems because they could fail any day, so no 7 ROY, per your definition, has ever been done in any of the systems. These systems run the core processes of city government. We have no 10 choice. We have to replace those.
Whether or not we have a choice, don't we have to do an ROY to choose competing systems in order to put together an RFP? Shouldn't --
-- you be responsible to do this without having done an ROY in advance?
You're correct, and that -- that is a future phase that will come. Right now.
Thank you. That's great. I appreciate it. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 358 My time is up, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Teach or tell me when it appropriate to debundle a contract?
That's -- do that at a departmental request normally. I know we debundled some computer information, IT information, not too long ago. Did you have a particular compact -- contract in mind.
Procedurally how does that work when you debundle a contract -- and let me ask it different. What might be the trigger -- what might be the trigger for you and leadership along with the head of OEO to say, it is most appropriate that we debundle this contract? ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 359
Well, we try to debundle snow removal not too long ago. We got to and get --
We tried to do that probably four years ago, I guess. We brought in smaller contractors and we brought in landscaping people who would not be able to landscape in the winter, they would have their trucks doing something else. And they all said great idea, great idea, and then when it came time to bid we never heard a word from them. To sum it up quick, sure, we do it. We tried this.
It was a leadership decision. The head of ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 360 the department decided to do that?
Oka. And you went through the process, and what happened?
We talked to a lot of the smaller vendors, and they all said, yes, we will do it, and then didn't do it; or a lot of them were not interested because they -- they are other contracts with smaller parking lots, things like that, that they're able to get paid faster, that they -- they're just not job jobs, and they can handle little -- that's sort of reason were give to us, as many of them have ongoing contracts with these smaller places they've had for years and years and years, and they don't want to jeopardize those by going with the City contract for one year, and then maybe not have it for the next ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 361 year.
I see. So, again, for the record, because I'm still struck by the -- was it Maramont? Maramont, what is the name of that contract?
The total size of that contract, the total amount of that contract, 3 plus?
What would be an appropriate reason to ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 362 request that that contract should be debundled so that we could put "x" number of -- of caterers, for lack of a better word, who have a capacity to get $500,000 contracts which would equal --
I'd have to talk with the using department and find out more about what it is they do and what the requirements are. I know the requirements are very strenuous, and I don't know them of all off the top of my head, but a large portion of it is governed by the federal and state government, so they have to have fund -- if it's even possible to do that. I will to talk to Maramont myself and just find out what their break down is now. They may use a awful lot of local companies that we don't know about, and it's already debundled sort but just not by primes.
Then the ask will be provide detailed ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 363 information about that contract, do they use local company?
Thank you, Councilwoman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The terms of contracting opportunities, service, supply and equipment and beyond that, do we know how much is being done by privately held companies?
We don't track that at all? ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 364
In general, I guess the concern is that with privately held companies there's not enough access to information, public information. If we are not tracking that, if we're not cognizant of that, I guess we're also not asking for their employment practices or any of the type of information. So, I guess, the thought is that if we're deal -- if we're giving City contract dollars to privately held companies, how do we hold them responsible for the type of business ethics that we put in place?
They're required by law to do that. They're required by the terms and conditions to do that. And if they're not, ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 365 somebody would have to let us know or the department would have to be aware of it somehow. I don't know how that would be.
So we're doing it certainly for the terms and conditions?
Okay. So if there are living wage and benefit requirements within the terms and conditions, how is that information accessed by someone in the public whether that company is complied?
If the City wanted -- if the City wanted do that, by -- again, in the terms and conditions, the contractor must open up his books.
So the only way to access it is through contractual relationship with the ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 366 City?
The only way to access it is through the contractual relationship with the City?
I assume so. I don't know how. Me, as a worker, to be able to go in and say to my boss, I want to know what everybody is getting paid, if they're being paid properly, is that what you're asking?
The concern is -- the concern is actually raised by a constituent that raised a question with me about not just the fact that we contract out and, in some cases, we contract out too much, but the thought that we also contract some in cases with privately held companies that don't live up to certain standards.
We wouldn't ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 367 know that.
Okay. Thank you. Just lastly on the same contract we've been talking about, because I didn't run through the list of questions for that but ran through it for Elliott Lewis, I guess the question is: What subcontract opportunities are available that you have identified that did not exist when the contract was first bid?
I'd have to ask to department about -- they work on a day-to-day basis I don't -- I don't know all the services that are involved. I just know it's a general, as I said, this time side of the tarmac type.
I'm not ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 368 asking about Elliot Lewis. I asking about the other contractor, the food service contract.
What subcontracting opportunities have been identified since the contract was first let?
I wouldn't know ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 369 what contracting opportunities are available because I don't know what the details of the contract are that they --
Used by all departments? Was there any department that does eat?
Used mostly by recreation, and so you allowed you recreation to determine the goals?
So it's a city-wide contract simply because it's being used by more than one ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 370 department, but it's being used mostly by Recreation.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some quick questions about outside contracts. There's a $65,000 contract -- this is Section 23, 16. There's a $65,000 contract in ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 371 FY12 and FY13 for, quote, consultant, for which the vendor is listed as TBD. Have these funds been encumbered for FY12.
You're going to spend $65,000 between now and the end of the year?
It may not be $65,000, but we are putting together a miscellaneous purchase order for a business analyst to answer actually some of questions that you've been asking when it comes to.
Because we do want to be ready for a new electronic system. We want to see -- you know, we would like outside information on how we're doing, how others are doing, and what changes we ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 372 might have to make, and what changes we're willing to make, which I think we're willing to make a few changes to become more automated and electronic and save some time and effort. So that -- that's what we're looking to use part of tht money for. I don't know if we'll--
Yeah. Maybe, you know, just to analyze our entire business process and certainly workflow and see what other municipalities are to go doing. We've done a lot of that on our own, but we would like the expertise of a company that -- that does that on a regular basis.
And the decision to do this is left up to departments individually? How did this end up in your line items instead of, say, OIT's or.
Well, for this ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 373 particular discussion with our -- we're under the review -- review of the Managing Director's Office. So we worked with them and talked about it and what the needs of the department are, and that's one of things that we're hoping that we'll be able to bring. In just Rebecca had referred to there being an efficiency review of many services throughout the city, this is probably a smaller review.
And they'd probably be able to find out, as they should, and as Mary said, to answer some of your questions, like we -- we have no one in our office that can say what it cost to put a rec together into an award. In between, there was a lot of work being done, but we don't know how to put that together. We don't have the expertise. So we hopefully get somebody like that so some of your question can be answered.
I guess my -- my question not for you is, is why we don't do this on a more broad scale.
And I'm not sure -- ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 374
I'll ask that of other people. I won't ask you to speculate and get you in trouble. So you're intention then is to try to find a vendor that will be the same person in and 13? 7
Okay. 11 And have you done and RFP or is this 12 going to be --
We don't anticipate it being over $30,000, at least we hope it's not. So we have not put that together, but once we do we'll be happy to send it out.
I've also got the same question for the $15,000 line item for employee training in FY12 and 13; have they been incumbered?
We're looking for training, some basic electronic training, some basic, you know, Microsoft and Excel. We're looking into purchasing training that we might be able to work with to develop some of our technical staff. Looking at how, you know, ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 376 Procurement has changed over the years, I think in the past because of budgetary constraints we have not been able to focus on that, so we're hoping to be able to use that -- that budget to -- just to kind of bring our -- our -- our staff up to date.
Are you finished, Councilman Green, because nobody else is in line here?
So has a vendor been identified for that ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 377 contract 15,000?
Let's see here. So are you going to be providing vacancy new position information? We've asked that that be provided prior to the departmental hearings. Has that been provided.
We provided it to the Budget Department. You probably -- just like last night, so you probably won't have it yet. But brought it with us and we do have a copy, and they're going to submit a cop. I think the first couple of days are missing if I'm not mistaken.
We have submitted it, and we also had testimony on it earlier. ELECTRONIC REPORTING STENOGRAPHIC AFFILIATES 378
If you have a copy -- if you have a copy, if you could please submit it to the Chair, and we'll have somebody come up and we'll take a look at it and see if you need a call back. Thank you.