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Committee Hearing, April 5, 2011

Minutes from Philadelphia City Council Committee Hearings, Apr 5, 2011

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Organizations mentioned

Mr. Greenberger

Sorry.14

Councilman Rizzo

All right.15 Let's then --16

Mr. Greenberger

But I'll get17 it to you.18

Councilman Rizzo

Let me put19 it this way: When you bring people to20 the Navy Yard, do we know how many that21 have occupied space there have failed?22 Has anybody failed? Is there a shuddered23 building there now?24

Mr. Greenberger

No. In fact,25 198 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 if anything, there's very little space2 left, other than in two mid-rise3 buildings that are harder to figure out4 what to do with. I'm aware of only one5 business, at least in my tenure, that has6 actually moved out.7

Councilman Rizzo

This leads8 to me the worst-case scenario. We hear9 about a major business that's in trouble.10 When people go there, is there a strategy11 in the event -- why mince words. We know12 Tasty Baking is in big trouble.13 Hopefully they can sell it, or the worst14 case would be that it would close. What15 do you do then? What do you do with a16 facility like that? Hopefully you try to17 spin it off to another baking company?18 What do you di in the worst-case19 scenario?20

Mr. Greenberger

The21 worst-case scenario, which I don't think22 we're going to get to, by the way. I23 think this is going to have a good24 ending, this story, based on the25 199 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 monitoring that we've done thus far with2 Tasty and their lenders. But in the3 worst-case scenario, this is a very4 high-efficiency, top-flight bakery,5 modern bakery, that has value separate6 from the company that's occupying it. So7 worst-case scenario is, you start8 marketing for that purpose. I don't9 think we're going to get there, though.10

Councilman Rizzo

Good. Well,11 that's a good thing to hear. You would12 think that with all those efficiencies,13 that -- maybe it's people's lives -- I14 don't know why they're having the trouble15 that they're having, but it's good to16 hear that. I'll leave it at that.17

Mr. Greenberger

Every company18 is different and has their own issues of19 debt and expenditure and operational20 costs that you can't just pin it down to21 one thing.22

Councilman Rizzo

Now, what23 about the old site?24

Mr. Greenberger

Well, the25 200 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 good news is -- Councilman Jones knows --2 is that the old site has been sold. Half3 of it, the distribution side, is actively4 being demolished to make way for a very5 large new Shop Rite and retail center6 that's going to serve several7 neighborhoods around it. There's also8 demolition going on at Hunting Park9 Avenue to make way for a pad site there.10 The building that is not coming down is11 the big factory building, very expensive12 to take down, probably has some reuse,13 not sure yet what it is. So it's just14 going to have to be stabilized and held15 for the moment.16

Councilman Rizzo

And the17 Budd -- I think we still call it that --18 in that location?19

Mr. Greenberger

Other20 buildings are still part of the old Budd21 holdings now owned by Mike O'Neill,22 particularly three very large industrial23 buildings that don't have a clear future24 and we're trying to think through what25 201 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the possibilities are of those buildings2 and who to attach to them to make3 something happen.4

Councilman Rizzo

Well, lots5 of challenges, and I know you'll get it6 done. Thanks.7

Mr. Greenberger

You're8 welcome.9

Councilman Rizzo

Thanks,10 Madam Chair.11

Council President Verna

The12 Chair recognizes Councilman Jones.13

Councilman Jones

Thank you.14 Just real quick, and we want to15 get you out of here. An amendment to the16 whole industrial land use, it might be17 good to give Council a briefing --18

Mr. Greenberger

I'll be happy19 to.20

Councilman Jones

-- about21 what the reports indicate.22

Mr. Greenberger

Sure.23

Councilman Jones

Respective24 to the districts, whether we're talking25 202 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 about American Street or the waterfront.2 But we might want to kind of all be on3 the same page of that. In particular,4 PIDC conducted a study, a reuse study, of5 the Hunting Park industrial park. So if6 we were to codify them and kind of7 bring -- for example, in Hunting Park,8 Darrell Clarke and Donna Reed Miller also9 touch on that border, we would all be10 interested in -- Council at-large as11 well, but particularly the District12 Councilpeople would be interested in13 that. And so that we get a sense of the14 direction industrial land and land reuse15 is going in, and that would be very16 helpful for me.17 Also, just to recap on one18 other thing. Commerce launched a $7019 million small business support program,20 including new energy rebates programs,21 facades and commercial corridor grants,22 70 million, and if that is the case, how23 are you going to apply that? Where are24 you going to apply that? Is there going25 203 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 to be a marketing effort? Which may2 address some of the concerns we have3 about commercial corridor support and4 actually investment.5

Mr. Greenberger

That's not a6 single pot of money. It comes from7 multiple sources with multiple directives8 behind it. For example, I think the City9 received -- I may get this number a10 little bit wrong, but it's something like11 $30 million from the federal government12 in ARRA money that have been consolidated13 into so-called Energy Works, directed14 money to very specific things based on15 applications for -- mostly applications,16 or at least half of it, applications from17 businesses for low-interest loans to do18 energy retrofits of buildings. That19 program, which actually didn't start that20 long ago, is now starting to close on21 loans that are in various parts of the22 City. It's also -- part of it is in the23 metropolitan region. We got a large24 piece of the grant because we coordinated25 204 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 with the surrounding counties. So2 there's also demand from them, although3 it's not heavy yet on the commercial4 side, but I think we're about to close on5 our first commercial Energy Works loan6 from outside the City. And then a lot of7 it is for residential work.8

Councilman Jones

A part of9 that briefing that I talk about might be10 also identifying these types of new11 resources that are available, so that12 when someone walks into our respective13 offices, that we're armed with that14 information and can communicate to your15 respective departments and offices to16 refer people. There is a disconnect at17 this point --18

Mr. Greenberger

I hear you.19

Councilman Jones

-- of what20 exists and what we know about and then21 what the public gets access to.22 So who in your department23 markets this program in particular?24

Mr. Greenberger

Actually, the25 205 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Energy Works one has a whole marketing2 effort that the grant is paying for and3 it's overseen by my Deputy Chief of4 Staff, Andy Rachlin.5

Councilman Jones

Okay.6 And --7

Mr. Greenberger

I'm pointing8 in this direction because I think he's9 here, but I haven't looked.10

Councilman Jones

Is he in11 here?12

Mr. Dow

He's right there.13

Councilman Jones

Oh, yeah.14 I'd like to do the briefing on15 behalf of -- for all members of Council16 at the President's --17

Mr. Greenberger

Be happy to18 do that.19

Councilman Jones

We would be20 interested in knowing just a general21 strategy of where we're going and what22 kind of programs we're armed with to23 address some of those concerns, both in24 industrial land and particularly25 206 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 commercial corridors and individual small2 businesses.3

Mr. Greenberger

Okay.4

Councilman Jones

Thank you,5 Madam President.6

Council President Verna

Thank7 you.8 The Chair recognizes9 Councilwoman Brown.10

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you,11 Madam President. And I am going to12 reduce my questioning here because13 they've been adequately covered by14 Councilman Goode and Councilman Jones.15 On the continuing concern about16 commercial corridors and diversity goals,17 in this new commercial Energy Works loan,18 what is the level of consideration or19 thought given to making sure those20 dollars go citywide and do not fall in21 just one or two or three or four or five22 designated parts of the City when there23 are ten councilmanic districts? Number24 one. And, number two, the diversity25 207 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 goals end of that. Forward that to Madam2 President. Because in all contracting,3 in all opportunities, those will be the4 consistent, prevailing questions for5 members of City Council. So I'd be6 interested in an answer to those7 questions on this new commercial Energy8 Works loan opportunity.9 There are 50 business corridor10 managers now, or at least let me say11 this --12

Mr. Greenberger

No, no, no.13

Councilwoman Brown

On of your testimony you talk about 5015 business corridor managers as an16 important step to serving our city's17 diverse neighborhoods. How are they18 chosen, what are their responsibilities19 and what is being done to track their20 reach in those neighborhoods?21

Mr. Dow

We train through --22 one of our programs that Shinjoo Cho23 leads is a training program for business24 corridor managers, and so business25 208 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 corridors that we either have contracts2 through -- it could be either direct3 contracts with them or programs like --4 they might have a main street program as5 well, and she trains those staff from6 those organizations to go out and then7 carry the services of the City, how to8 navigate the City's bureaucracy, how to9 interact with the City in terms of the10 loan programs that we might have, also to11 understand how to interact with L&I,12 Health and all of those various13 organizations.14

Councilwoman Brown

So are15 they City employees?16

Mr. Dow

No, they're not.17

Mr. Greenberger

No. These18 are grassroots organizations that come19 from the communities themselves.20 Sometimes they come in the form of a bona21 fide business improvement district that's22 a municipal authority. More typically23 they come from CDCs and business24 organizations who are looking for some25 209 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 way to manage the corridor better.2

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. All3 right, then. So you essentially arm them4 with information that they --5

Mr. Greenberger

They're doing6 technical assistance.7

Councilwoman Brown

A real8 resource for --9

Mr. Greenberger

Right.10 They're not doing the work. We're doing11 the technical assistance part.12

Councilman Jones

Point of13 information, Madam President.14

Council President Verna

The15 Chair recognizes Councilman Jones for a16 point of information.17

Councilman Jones

And then a18 list of them in our respective districts,19 who those contacts are would be helpful20 to us. Again, a disconnect to -- if I21 have a business question, I know who in22 your shop to talk to, but if I have23 someone interested in a vacant property24 along a corridor, to know that there is a25 210 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 corridor manager there that do that heavy2 lifting, it's like valuable to us.3

Mr. Greenberger

Great. We'll5 do that.6

Mr. Dow

It's typically7 through our CDCs, but we'll definitely do8 that.9

Councilwoman Brown

Then the10 last one -- and I believe Councilwoman11 Donna Reed Miller asked about this, but12 too often my office gets approached by13 new emerging small businessowners who are14 eager and earnest in wanting to start15 and/or grow their business, but really do16 not have a clue on where in government to17 go. And so it goes to the Business18 Services Center.19

Councilwoman Brown

And --21

Mr. Dow

Curtis Gregory.22

Councilwoman Brown

Yes, yes,23 yes.24

Mr. Dow

We have a hotline25 211 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 right there right now. That's 215 --2 we'll send you some information, but we3 have a hotline. We have individuals who4 manage staff that manage the particular5 geography for that who work for Curtis,6 and they each have a respective area7 that's divided up through the City. So8 we can send you that respective map. It9 has all the contact information, all of10 that.11

Councilwoman Brown

Very well.12 So there's interface with all of the13 chambers?14

Councilwoman Brown

There are16 interfaces with all of the CDCs?17

Councilwoman Brown

The19 neighborhood business corridor managers,20 et cetera?21

Mr. Dow

And the business22 associations as well.23

Councilwoman Brown

All right,24 then. Thank you very much.25 212 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371

Mr. Dow

You're very welcome.2

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you,3 Madam President.4

Council President Verna

Thank5 you.6 Gentlemen, thank you very much.7

Mr. Greenberger

You're8 welcome. Thank you.9 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:10 You're always very informative.11

Mr. Greenberger

That's what12 we try to do.13

Council President Verna

Thank14 you so much.15 MR. McPHERSON: The next16 department is the Board of Ethics.17

Council President Verna

And I18 also notice that Dr. Curtis was19 scheduled, I think, at 1:30 to 2 o'clock.20 He too has been patiently waiting. So I21 would like to remind my colleagues to ask22 as many questions as you want to, but23 please be brief.24 (Witnesses approached witness25 213 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 table.)2 (Short recess for3 stenographer.)4

Council President Verna

Thank5 you so much for your patience. We really6 appreciate it.7

Mr. Brown

You're quite8 welcome.9

Council President Verna

Mr.10 Brown, I assume you will be the one11 testifying?12

Council President Verna

If14 you would like to abbreviate your15 statement, we could give a copy of it to16 the stenographer and it will be17 transcribed in full. That's your choice.18

Mr. Brown

Okay. Good19 afternoon.20

Council President Verna

Good21 afternoon. Kindly identify yourself for22 the record and proceed with your23 testimony.24

Mr. Brown

Thank you.25 214 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371

Council President Verna

Thank2 you.3

Mr. Brown

My name is William4 Brown and I am a member of the5 Philadelphia Board of Ethics, and we6 thank you for this opportunity to speak7 on the proposed budget for the8 Philadelphia Board of Ethics. With me9 today is Shane Creamer, our Executive10 Director to the Board. Other staff11 members here today as well include Deputy12 Executive Director Nedda Massar, General13 Counsel Evan Meyer, Associate General14 Counsel Maya Nayak and our Director of15 Enforcement Michael Cooke. 19 We take very seriously our20 mission to promote public confidence in21 the integrity and fairness of City22 government and to promote honesty,23 integrity and transparency in City24 government. We have made significant25 215 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 progress towards these goals in the past2 year. 11 In 2010, we improved and12 expanded our education and training13 efforts and engaged in important and14 complex legislative and regulatory15 activity. 19 Under Training and Education,20 in 2010, the Board conducted three21 different categories of trainings and22 offered approximately 30 live training23 sessions that were attended by almost 50024 people. 16 We sent notices to more than17 300 individuals who might be interested18 in the campaign finance laws and19 announced a schedule of campaign finance20 training sessions in 2010, well in21 advance of the 2011 elections. Five of22 the Board's eight staff members were part23 of the campaign finance training team24 that redesigned and updated the training25 217 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 materials. To date, our staff has2 conducted seven training sessions that3 were attended by 88 people. We have at4 least two more sessions scheduled before5 the primary election. 8 The Board is responsible for9 providing mandatory ethics training to10 City officials, employees and board and11 commission members. As with campaign12 finance training, the goal of ethics13 training is to prevent potential14 violations. Half of our staff members15 are involved in scheduling, designing and16 presenting in-person ethics training17 sessions. 21 The Board's recently adopted22 regulations on political activity by City23 employees, which became effective on24 March 28th, has created a demand for25 218 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 political activity training before the2 primary election. Therefore, we have3 developed new training materials and will4 conduct training for human resources5 managers, departmental ethics trainers,6 City Council staff and other City7 officials in the next few weeks. 18 We are already conducting similar19 sessions this year. A very recent20 upgrade by the Records Department to the21 financial disclosure filing system has22 created another demand for training. 5 In short, in the past year, the6 Board has designed and offered a full7 calendar of training activities in8 several categories for hundreds of9 individuals. We expect this role to10 increase to five categories in the next11 few months as we add mandatory lobbying12 and political activity training to our13 training calendar. 17 All persons who are required to18 register as lobbyists must participate in19 training about the Ethics Code as well as20 the lobbying law. With the July 1, 201121 start date for lobbying registration fast22 approaching, we must begin training as23 soon as possible. 5 Also as part of lobbying6 training, we need to conduct outreach7 programs in the local business community8 to reach those people who may not be9 aware that they are subject to the10 registration, reporting and training11 requirements of the lobbying law. We12 expect that there will be a continuing13 demand for Board staff to train and14 assist lobbyists and principals in how to15 use the new mandatory electronic filing16 software. 19 In an effort to use technology20 to meet some training needs, Board staff21 continued in 2010 to develop an online22 ethics training module.

Mr. Brown

However, the23 project was delayed by the resignation of24 a key Board staff member and a technology25 221 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 issue that is still being resolved with2 the assistance of the Division of3 Technology. 5 All of these training efforts6 were conducted by six of our eight staff7 members, and with all of our other8 responsibilities, we were stretched to9 the limit. The bottom line is that the10 demand for Board training is increasing11 faster than we can keep up with it. We12 need more staff to conduct training, and13 the Board's Fiscal '12 appropriation is14 insufficient to permit us to hire15 sufficient staff to do our job well. 19 Education and training are not20 limited to in-person classes. 24 Our Fiscal '12 appropriation:25 222 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 The City Controller's top finding in the2 July 2010 audit of the Board was that a3 lack of sufficient funding could imperil4 the Board's mission. This conclusion was5 made without considering the additional6 impact on our small staff of the new7 lobbying law. The Controller also said8 that "in its first two years of9 operations, the Board of Ethics was10 unable to spend much of its11 appropriations. "15 The lack of funding described by the16 Controller has halted the Board's growth17 and made it challenging to fulfill its18 mandates. 22 The Ethics Board has been23 advised that its proposed operating24 budget for Fiscal Year '12 is again25 223 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 $810,000. This is the same amount that2 our budget was reduced to three years3 ago. This includes $681,100 for4 personnel, 110,400 for services, and5 18,500 for materials, supplies and6 equipment. 15 With the current Class 100 appropriations16 for Fiscal Year '12, we cannot even fill17 our one existing staff vacancy. "8 We requested funding for three additional9 staff members at an estimated cost of10 $130,000 to conduct training for filers,11 provide advice, respond to help desk, to12 electronic filing issues, investigate13 potential violations, and conduct14 enforcement and continually update15 lobbying information on the Board's16 website. 23 We request your support for an24 additional $130,000 to fund three25 225 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 additional staff positions in light of2 our vastly increased workload. With that3 additional funding, we could create two4 new information specialist positions,5 each with a salary of $34,000, to help6 administer the lobbying law, and a new7 supervisory/help desk position, with a8 salary of $50,000. 12 Each year, the Board is13 compelled to defend legal challenges to14 its authority and actions as well as to15 the City's law themselves. 22 During the past year, we have23 received almost $250,000 in pro bono24 legal services in two major ongoing25 226 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 cases. 7 I would like to note that the8 Board understands Council's concerns that9 the City departments and agencies provide10 contracting opportunities for businesses11 owned by minorities, women and the12 disabled. 16 The Board of Ethics is17 committed to its mission of administering18 and promoting the City's public integrity19 laws. 12

Council President Verna

Thank13 you very much.14 The Chair recognizes Councilman15 Green.16

Councilman Green

Thank you,17 Madam Chair.18 Good afternoon.19

Mr. Brown

Good afternoon.20

Councilman Green

In your21 testimony you said you hope the Board22 could work with the Administration and23 Council to make an internal transfer of24 $18,900 into Class 100 from other budget25 228 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 classes and that's money that you don't2 need in the other budget classes. When3 you made that request to the4 Administration, what was the response?5

Mr. Creamer

We made that6 request at the beginning of the budget7 season, and I'm not sure that we had a8 response at that time. We did get a9 response yesterday, though, and that's10 why we put in this testimony.11

Councilman Green

Which was12 no?13

Mr. Creamer

That they would14 work with us to transfer the money. They15 advised us that even after the budget has16 been submitted, that there are ways to17 transfer money within our budget, and18 they said that they would -- oh.19 (Witness approached witness20 table.)21

Councilman Green

So why not22 just amend the budget, if that's where23 you want the money? I mean, there will24 be changes to the budget. This will not25 229 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 be passed as is.2 Are you requesting that we move3 the money from Class 200 to Class 100?4

Mr. Creamer

We're asking the5 Administration and Council to work with6 us to transfer the money. However it7 happens, we don't really care, but just8 so that it happens so that we can fully9 fund that position. That's our goal.10

Ms. Rhynhart

Just to add to11 that, Rebecca Rhynhart, Budget Director.12 That will be the request of the13 Administration, if we could move the --14 transfer the $18,000. It seemed like a15 reasonable request, so we were fine with16 it, and we would hope that we could make17 that change if you were amenable to it.18

Councilman Green

Okay.19 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:20 Excuse me, please. For which fiscal year21 are we speaking?22

Ms. Rhynhart

This is for23 Fiscal '12. I mentioned this to Charlie24 yesterday. For Fiscal '12 there is25 230 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 $18,000 that was requested by the Board2 of Ethics to be transferred into Class3 100. They have, I believe, the rest of4 the funding necessary to hire an5 additional person, but they need that6 $18,000, which they can do without in7 their other classes. We thought that was8 okay. We would ask you to consider that.9

Council President Verna

I10 heard about the 18,000. I didn't hear11 you mention anything about the 130,000.12

Ms. Rhynhart

The 130,000?13 Oh, in the -- yes. That is --14

Council President Verna

The15 request made for the 130,000.16

Ms. Rhynhart

Right. That is17 not included in the Mayor's proposed18 budget to Council.19

Council President Verna

But20 are you going to work -- is the21 Administration going to work with them to22 see how they can achieve this 130,000?23 Councilman, I'm sorry. I don't24 mean to --25 231 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371

Councilman Green

Madam2 President, it's your prerogative.3

Council President Verna

Thank4 you. I'm glad you realize that.5

Ms. Rhynhart

The 130,000, as6 you know, we had to make difficult7 choices with the limited amount of funds8 we had available for the '12 budget. So9 that wasn't included in the proposed10 budget and that isn't part of the 18,00011 that we're asking you to make the change12 for. If you wanted to discuss the13 130,000, I mean, we can always have a14 conversation.15

Council President Verna

Very16 well. Thank you.17 Thank you, Councilman.18

Councilman Green

Madam19 President.20 While you're there,21 Ms. Rhynhart, there are funds, like $422 million for snow, we don't know if we'll23 need. We're funding Philly Rising. And24 when we passed the lobbyist registration25 232 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 bill in Council, the Ethics Board came2 before us at that time and said, We are3 in favor of this bill, but we will need,4 if you pass this, extra resources. The5 Administration was in favor of that bill6 and understood that at that time, and it7 seems to me since we've passed it and the8 Mayor signed it, we now have an9 obligation to fund it to a level so that10 it can be implemented and enforced.11

Ms. Rhynhart

We can discuss12 that with you and with Council as part of13 the budget process.14

Councilman Green

Okay. But,15 I mean, you were talking about making16 choices between funding items, and Philly17 Rising or -- providing the necessary18 resources to implement a law that we19 agreed should be passed, or snow removal,20 which is a contingency, versus21 implementing a law that we agreed we22 should pass.23

Ms. Rhynhart

To clarify, snow24 removal is more than just a contingency.25 233 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 In terms of the last two years, we've2 spent well more than the million that3 we're asking for. But in terms of4 funding, giving additional funding to the5 Board of Ethics, we can definitely have6 that conversation, if that's --7

Councilman Green

What's the8 rationale for the no answer, though? I9 mean, how are they supposed to do10 everything they're doing and implement a11 new responsibility? I don't understand12 the rationale.13

Ms. Rhynhart

Well, I think14 that -- I mean, this is in general --15 departments have done more with limited16 resources through this fiscal crisis and17 have continued to do so, and so that's18 something that we tell departments all19 the time, that you have to do more with20 less. But if it's thought through21 conversations that the Board of Ethics22 needs these additional funds, absolutely23 needs them to do their work, I mean, I24 think that's something that we should25 234 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 consider with you.2

Councilman Green

Okay. I'll3 drop that there. Thank you.4 In Class 200 spending, the5 detail indicates the Board has6 professional services contracts ranging7 from 5,000 to 26,000. For seven of the8 eight contracts for the current fiscal9 year, all of which are continued in FY12,10 no contractor or provider name list is11 listed in the budget detail. Are these12 contracts already in place?13

Ms. Massar

No, they are not,14 Councilman.15

Councilman Green

What are16 they for?17

Ms. Massar

It is an attempt18 to provide for or indicate the potential19 need for funding for support services20 perhaps in computer forensics or other21 kinds of services in complicated22 investigative and enforcement matters.23 At this point, though, we do not have any24 of those contracts let.25 235 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371

Councilman Green

How much of2 that is -- what's that add up to?3

Ms. Massar

The total contract4 amount is, I believe, a little over5 $86,000 anticipated, of which only 5,0006 at this point in time is currently under7 a contract.8

Councilman Green

So these are9 really placeholders in case you need10 those specific services?11

Councilman Green

Did you need13 them last year?14

Ms. Massar

Some of them.15

Councilman Green

Okay. Are16 you going out with RFPs for computer17 forensics now, for example, so that you18 have a provider available when the time19 comes?20

Ms. Massar

We have not done21 that so far. We are not sure what our22 need will be.23

Councilman Green

All I can24 say is, the process is long and painful25 236 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 to get through the Law Department. So if2 you think you might need the services3 next year, I would start now.4

Councilman Green

Or over the6 summer.7 Thank you very much for your8 testimony.9

Mr. Creamer

Thank you.10

Council President Verna

Thank11 you.12 Are there any other questions13 from members of the Committee?14 (No response.)15 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:16 Again, I apologize for the delay.17

Mr. Brown

No problem.18

Council President Verna

And I19 do appreciate your patience. Thank you20 very much.21

Mr. Creamer

Thank you.22

Council President Verna

I23 think the Committee would like to recess24 for about 45 minutes. So we should be25 237 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 back here at 3 o'clock.2 (Short recess.)3 MR. McPHERSON: Our next4 department is the Community College of5 Philadelphia.6 (Witnesses approached witness7 table.)8 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:9 You've been extremely, extremely patient.10 Thank you so much.11 Please identify yourself for12 the record and proceed with your13 testimony.14

Ms. Fernandez

Varsovia15 Fernandez, Chair of the Board of16 Trustees, Community College of17 Philadelphia.18 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:19 Welcome.20

Ms. Fernandez

Thank you.21 Good afternoon. My name is22 Varsovia Fernandez and I am Chair of23 Community College of Philadelphia's Board24 of Trustees. I am also President and CEO25 238 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 of the Greater Philadelphia Hispanic2 Chamber of Commerce. With me today is3 also, I must acknowledge, Councilman4 Kenney, who is a member of our Board of5 Trustees. We're all appointed by the6 Mayor.7 My Board colleagues and I are8 government, civic and business leaders9 who represent a section of Philadelphia.10 We volunteer our time because we care11 deeply about Philadelphia and recognize12 the importance of Community College of13 Philadelphia to the future of the City.14 While Greater Philadelphia is home to15 more than 100 colleges and universities,16 Community College of Philadelphia is17 unique. First, because it is the only18 community college in Philadelphia and,19 second, because for many residents, it20 provides the only affordable access point21 they have toward a college degree or22 certificate.23 The Board of Trustees thanks24 Mayor Nutter and City Council for their25 239 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 continued support of the College during2 these challenging fiscal times. The3 City's support is especially important if4 we are to continue to meet the needs of5 residents seeking to sharpen their6 skills, advance their careers and obtain7 employment.8 Despite our budget challenges,9 we have made quality education and10 student center services our top priority,11 but much of our future hinges on what is12 under this critical budgetary period. We13 ask that you consider the growing demand14 for our programs and the City's critical15 need for a more educated workforce. The16 City's financial support is essential if17 we are to continue to successfully meet18 our students' educational and training19 needs.20 Thank you, Madam Chair, for21 allowing my remarks.22

Council President Verna

Thank23 you.24 Doctor.25 240 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371

Dr. Curtis

I'm Stephen2 Curtis, President of Community College of3 Philadelphia. I thank you once again for4 the opportunity to speak with you today,5 and I also want to thank you for the6 long-time support that this Council has7 shown, not just in budgetary matters but8 in so many other ways as well. 10 I'm not going to read the11 testimony, the written testimony. You12 have that. 3 Second, there are immediate challenges in4 front of us, and I want to say a few5 words about that. And then, lastly, a6 couple of words about the future. 14 First, the written testimony15 includes some highlights -- and I'll16 mention two or three -- about the17 progress that I think we're making as a18 college. I think I said probably the19 same thing last year. For the last two20 years, we have been setting all-time21 records for credit enrollment at the22 College. So even though these are23 troubling times and challenging times, we24 view this as a positive. This is a25 242 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 moment when particularly because of the2 economy, the residents of this City need3 us the most, and we're very pleased that4 we continue to take in the residents who5 need our programs and services. It's a6 stretch sometimes, but in fact it is what7 we should be doing. 2 So we have completed an3 expansion at the Northeast Regional4 Center. It is literally twice as big5 now. 10 We're in the process of11 expanding at the main campus. That still12 has a ways to go. But as an example13 there, we are creating new space for our14 Culinary Arts and Hospitality Management15 program. It's not only new kitchens, new16 equipment, new everything for the first17 time in 20 or 30 years, but the number of18 work stations will expand. 21 And on a smaller level, we're22 also expanding the West Philadelphia23 Regional Center. We've had the24 opportunity to lease some space right25 244 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 next door, are doing that, and by this2 fall we'll have created additional3 computer classrooms and additional4 learning support space for students. 13 And I won't go through all the steps that14 we're taking right now, but there are15 many, and the bottom line is, we're16 trying to align both with President17 Obama's call about college attainment but18 more locally Mayor Nutter's call about19 increasing the number of residents that20 hold a college degree. We've actually21 set ourselves benchmarks year by year,22 and while we're not hitting every23 benchmark exactly, the number of24 graduates is definitely going up each25 245 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 year. 4 And the last example -- there5 are many more in the written testimony,6 and I won't go through them. "13 We have several faculty that are teaching14 college courses as part of the15 pre-release program, so that as the16 prisoners are then released, they already17 have a head start on an education track,18 are then coming to the College, in19 effect, with credits in hand. It's20 actually a unique program. We have21 college students going to the Cambria22 Community Center to take the courses23 there with the individuals in the24 pre-release program. 11 The challenges. They're pretty12 easy to describe. Through no fault of13 city or state, we are in a period, not14 just right now but have been for a bit,15 where our public sponsors, the City and16 the state, are unable in many cases to17 provide the kind of support that we need,18 particularly if I'm telling you we're19 setting all-time record enrollments. The20 most immediate challenge probably on the21 horizon is at the state level for next22 year. There's been plenty of publicity23 about the proposed state budget, huge24 cuts in basic education, but also higher25 247 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 education. While the community colleges2 are not on the high end of those cuts, we3 are getting our fair share. The proposal4 is that we would have our allocation from5 the state reduced by ten percent. 10 This is a multi-year problem.

Dr. Curtis

22 We're not waiting until next year. We23 are freezing vacant positions. Not all24 vacant, but probably half of the vacant25 248 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 positions that we have right now. We are2 planning now to reduce departmental3 budgets for next year. We are going to4 curtail programs and services. We can't5 keep doing the same thing. 9 But the biggest interest I10 always have when it comes to budget is11 what's the impact on students. At the12 end of the day, there's a reason that13 community colleges try to maintain14 affordability. We want the cost of15 higher education not to be an impediment16 to the residents of this city. So,17 again, starting next year, if things18 don't improve, we'll be facing a series19 of probably larger-than-ever-almost20 tuition increases. That's why it's21 important both at the City level and the22 state level, for that matter. 11 Unfortunately, we'll always get the most12 students when there's the least money13 available. Those things don't always go14 together. So I think it is going to be15 important for the City and the College to16 look forward, because it's not a17 single-year problem. 12 Good afternoon. 14

Ms. Tetefeo

My name is15 Ineisha Tetefeo. I'm 24 years of age and16 I've lived in East Oak Lane for half of17 my life and East Mount Airy for the other18 half of my life. Currently, I'm19 unemployed and I'm a full-time student at20 Community College of Philadelphia.21 As many know, the College is22 known as the path to possibilities. This23 has been very true for me. I attended24 Harcum College prior to coming to25 251 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Community College of Philadelphia. There2 I experienced the entire traditional3 campus life, which included living on4 campus, but life there ended rather5 quickly for me because it was too6 expensive and it did not offer the things7 that I thought was necessary. On the8 other hand, Community College of9 Philadelphia was affordable, offered10 small class sizes, which helped me not11 become so overwhelmed and allowed me many12 chances to ask questions and get to know13 my professors.14 For many years I cried and I15 prayed, and finally my prayers were16 answered as I received a letter stating17 that I could apply for a full scholarship18 at the College upon meeting the19 requirements. The scholarship is called20 My Degree Now. I was so excited to21 return to the college that I had attended22 in high school through the Advanced23 College Experience program. I now could24 hope to finish my degree in paralegal25 252 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 studies at a school that is approved by2 the American Bar Association. Now two3 years later, I will be graduating this4 May with a degree in paralegal studies, a5 degree in business and a certificate in6 management. Moreover, through the7 internship class offered at the College,8 I have been offered a job following my9 graduation.10 In my opinion, my path to11 possibilities through Community College12 of Philadelphia gave me opportunities13 that would not have happened without My14 Degree Now program. I now will be able15 to give back to the economy because of16 this.17 I have become a leader in so18 many different areas that I could not19 have imagined. It has not been because I20 had high SAT scores or the funds to make21 it, but rather the College gave me an22 opportunity because they had the funds,23 the faculty and staff to make my dreams24 come true and expand my horizons.25 253 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 After graduation, I will be2 prepared to enter the paralegal workforce3 in addition to continuing my education.4 I will be applying for the Mayor's5 application for a full scholarship to6 Peirce College to pursue my Bachelor's7 Degree in business administration, with a8 concentration on law. I hope to be a9 student leader there just as I have been10 here at Community College of11 Philadelphia.12 Here is a list of some of my13 accomplishments while on the Academics14 Honor List at the College. I'm the15 President of the Peer Legal Student16 Association, a student ambassador. I sit17 on Student Government for a judicial18 committee and student affairs. I'm a19 representative for the Philadelphia Leads20 program, a peer mentor at Community21 College and a member of the National22 Black Child Development Institute.23 As you can see with the24 opportunities given to me here at the25 254 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 College, I have been aggressive about2 achieving my educational and career3 goals, but equally persistent about4 community service, dedicating many hours5 serving my community to help others6 succeed.7 In summary, I quote poet8 William Butler Yeats in relation to what9 the College has done for me. "Education10 is not the filling of a pail, but the11 lighting of a fire." The College has12 truly lit my fire, and I have been a13 success because of it. I owe thanks and14 much gratitude to Community College of15 Philadelphia for making a way for me when16 there seemed to be no way.17

Council President Verna

Thank18 you.19 Good afternoon.20

Mr. Thompson

Yes. My name is21 Carl Thompson. I am a student, soon to22 be graduate and advocate for the23 Community College of Philadelphia. I24 would like to thank City Council for25 255 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 allowing me to speak about my experience2 at the College.3 Philadelphia has been my home4 all of my life. I was born and raised in5 West Philadelphia at 56th and Baltimore,6 and I am a product of the City's7 education system, both public and8 private.9 Having a passion for animals10 and animal science, I aspire to become a11 veterinarian and eventually own my own12 veterinarian clinic.13 As a 21-year-old black male14 from Philadelphia, statistics are15 unfortunately against me. However, the16 Community College of Philadelphia is out17 to prove statistics wrong. The College18 provides essential skills and knowledge19 that Philadelphia youth such as myself20 who are looking forward to a career and21 opportunity to improve their lives. This22 is one of the main reasons why I chose to23 attend the College. Having high24 aspirations, I needed to use every25 256 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 available resource and avenue to attain2 my goals.3 I needed an institution to4 prepare me for the rigorous science5 courses I was soon to face in6 veterinarian school, and the College's7 Associate's Degree and science program8 aided me in that preparation. The skills9 I'm learning in the science program will10 be essential in my academic career.11 Philadelphia is a college city,12 and Community College has partnerships13 and transfer programs with many of the14 neighboring colleges and universities.15 The College saves students thousands of16 dollars in tuition by providing17 affordable higher education courses that18 are accepted by Philadelphia's many19 four-year universities and colleges.20 Furthermore, the College is a21 great transition school for many22 graduating high school seniors. The23 course material and textbooks are the24 same, and the demands of the courses are25 257 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the same, if not more, than any four-year2 university. A community college goal3 should not just be to push out graduates4 but to create better students, and5 Community College of Philadelphia does6 this. The College creates better7 students who are firmly prepared for8 their transition to a four-year school.9 For these reasons, I chose to10 attend Community College of Philadelphia,11 and for these reasons, also why Community12 College of Philadelphia is pivotal in13 producing the future professional14 workforce of the City of Philadelphia and15 the global community.16 Thank you.17

Council President Verna

Thank18 you. Thank you both very much. We19 appreciate your coming in.20

Dr. Curtis

We're happy to21 answer any questions that the Council22 might have.23

Council President Verna

Thank24 you, Doctor.25 258 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 What is the present enrollment2 at the College?3

Dr. Curtis

By the end of this4 year, we will have enrolled about 40,0005 different students, the majority of6 those, probably three-quarters, are in7 our credit programs, heading toward8 degrees or certificates, and the other9 are in our non-credit programs, adult10 basic education or literacy programs,11 let's say, workforce training and the12 like.13

Council President Verna

It's14 amazing. You also indicated that the15 state -- you're anticipating that the16 state will be cutting your funding by17 approximately $3 million.18

Council President Verna

Is20 the City providing the same budget as you21 were given last year?22

Dr. Curtis

The recommendation23 that's come to you as Council as part of24 the process would keep us whole from this25 259 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 year to next, yes.2

Council President Verna

What3 is the tuition?4

Dr. Curtis

Tuition is $1285 per credit. There are also fees, just so6 I said that. So for a typical student,7 when you add in fees, it's probably about8 $160 per credit.9

Council President Verna

Thank10 you.11 The Chair recognizes Councilman12 Goode.13

Councilman Goode

Thank you,14 Madam President.15 Good afternoon, Dr. Curtis. I16 had the opportunity to go to Community17 College to meet with some members of your18 teachers union probably about a month,19 month and a half ago, and they were, of20 course, very concerned with the cuts,21 potential cuts, coming from the state and22 asked me the question of what I thought23 the City might be able to do. And I said24 I do not believe that we're going to be25 260 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 able to provide more funding necessarily,2 but that we would consider it. But one3 idea I had was looking at Community4 College as a workforce development5 entity, which we've discussed in the6 past.7 And so my first question is, is8 Community College a direct recipient of9 any workforce development funds?10

Councilman Goode

And what do12 you receive funding for?13

Dr. Curtis

Well, it depends14 on the year. For example, right now we15 have two workforce development programs16 that are funded by stimulus dollars.17 Those are -- I guess the one is to train18 residents on one of three tracks -19 medical insurance billing, computer20 network administration or administrator,21 or human services assistance, social22 services assistant. So that kind of23 funding, and true for the other one as24 well. Different training area, but it's25 261 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 very specific, with the goal of getting2 participants in entry-level jobs.3 One thing we've done different4 with the one I just mentioned, those5 three tracks, a lot of our workforce6 training is not for college credit. It's7 training. You're trying to create8 competencies and skills. Well, we're9 doing that here, but we've actually10 attached college credit to it, because11 we're looking at this as a kind of12 two-for. How can we get the participants13 into an entry-level job, but if they've14 also got some college credit from it,15 then that means they can come back either16 immediately or later on and start17 pursuing a full Associate Degree. So18 this is a kind of new approach to19 certificates, credit certificates.20 Anyway, those are two examples.21 We obviously apply for WIB-related22 funding. Again, it's different kinds of23 tracks depending on what's available.24

Councilman Goode

This is25 262 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 exactly the type of conversation I had2 with them and the type of perspective I3 offered. I view workforce development4 investments as going to three different5 areas. One, to certify training6 providers, which is probably the bulk of7 the money and the bulk of the attention;8 also to businesses for customized9 training; and also to individual training10 accounts, which are like training11 vouchers.12

Dr. Curtis

Right.13

Councilman Goode

What I14 expressed to the faculty there was that15 if Community began to aggressively16 develop itself and market itself in those17 three areas, one as a certified training18 provider, one as a place where19 businessowners could go to and receive20 customized training for their businesses,21 or also to be the recipient of individual22 training accounts, that those are options23 for not necessarily more money coming24 from the state or federal government, but25 263 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the money being used more effectively and2 working both for workforce development3 and working to meet some of Community's4 needs. So I'd be interested in exploring5 that with you further as I explore6 workforce development and as the WIB and7 the Workforce Development Corporation8 began to align and form its new entity.9

Dr. Curtis

I agree with all10 that, and we do all those things, just so11 I've said. That doesn't mean we12 shouldn't be doing more. So I absolutely13 agree.14 I will say that one of the, I15 guess, consequences of the current16 economy, there are many employers that17 are not only downsizing, but they're not18 necessarily investing as much right now19 in training, because we do a lot of20 customized job training, and we've seen21 the difference lately. Also, there are22 employers that are cutting back on23 tuition reimbursement, for example, for24 their employees.25 264 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 I'm assuming and hoping at some2 point that will turn around a bit, but,3 again, the reality of the current economy4 is, it's not quite as vigorous I think in5 terms of some of those opportunities as6 we may have had in the past. But the7 three tracks that you've described,8 absolutely, we should be doing all of9 those things.10

Councilman Goode

Okay.11 Great. The second line of questioning,12 of course, is about contracts, but rather13 than walk through the process of last14 year of looking at goals and what was15 achieved, what I've been doing this year16 is actually looking at the process and17 first by examining the largest contract.18 So what is the largest contract that you19 expect to award in Fiscal Year '12?20

Dr. Curtis

I don't know the21 answer to that. I can tell you the22 largest ones last year, but I'm not sure23 if I know the answer the coming year.24

Councilman Goode

Largest one25 265 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 this year or prior year. Any of that2 will do.3

Dr. Curtis

Last year there4 were two that were by far the largest.5 One was for cleaning services. That's6 overnight cleaning services at the main7 campus. And the other very large one8 last year would have been furniture. I9 mentioned construction. We actually had10 to furnish a new building.11

Councilman Goode

How much is12 the cleaning contract?13

Dr. Curtis

About a million14 dollars. And the furniture, probably15 three-quarters of a million.16

Councilman Goode

Let's just17 deal with the cleaning contract.18

Councilman Goode

What firm20 holds that contract?21

Dr. Curtis

CSI. It's a22 woman-owned firm.23

Councilman Goode

I was24 getting there.25 266 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Is it a renewable contract?2

Dr. Curtis

It's renewable,3 surely. Maybe I misunderstand. It's a4 finite term for the contract. We then5 rebid it. Is that what you mean?6

Councilman Goode

The next7 question was, how long has the firm held8 the contract?9

Dr. Curtis

I don't think10 they've had it before. Six months.11

Councilman Goode

And is it a12 certified disadvantaged business?13

Dr. Curtis

It's a woman-owned14 firm. That's --15

Councilman Goode

You don't16 know whether it's certified?17

Dr. Curtis

I don't know. I18 assume the answer is yes.19

Councilman Goode

Okay.20 That's it.21 Thank you, Madam President.22 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:23 You're welcome.24 The Chair recognizes25 267 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Councilwoman Brown.2

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you,3 Madam President.4 Good morning -- afternoon.5

Dr. Curtis

Afternoon, right.6

Councilwoman Brown

We've only7 been here since 9:00.8 There's no question at all in9 how well CCP does in its principal10 mission, which is that of educating11 Philadelphia residents and the like. And12 so I commend you for the work that you're13 doing, for your testimony. And as it14 relates principally to your mission, last15 year you talked about the Center for Male16 Engagement. Update us, if you will, on17 the success rate of that effort and has18 it indeed enhanced the African American19 male enrollment at CCP, and what is the20 status of the funding?21

Dr. Curtis

Good enough.22 First of all, this is the second year of23 the Center's operation, and it is male.24 It's not just African American male.25 268 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 It's all males, although the majority of2 our males are African American or Latino.3

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.4

Dr. Curtis

First of all, in5 terms of its success, we are very pleased6 with what it has accomplished so far.7 It's a year and a half in. I don't know8 that I have the specific percentages with9 me today, but we are on a regular basis10 comparing persistence rates, those kinds11 of things, with males that do not12 participate in the Center and with other13 kinds of benchmarks. And we know that14 the persistence has absolutely increased15 because of it.16 When I talked about it last17 year, I think I mentioned in addition to18 an array of services, there are full-time19 staff there that we call coaches who work20 directly with the students. That has21 been a change. We didn't have a core of22 full-time staff that were doing just that23 previously. So that's one of the24 principal differences.25 269 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Another difference, we are2 starting, as many men as will come in the3 summer, in a summer program before they4 enter. So we've had one summer5 experience with that. We've only tried6 it once. But, again, as part of the7 whole picture, we believe it's making a8 difference, because the persistence is9 definitely up.10 In terms of funding, it is11 primarily funded at the moment with12 external funding. That's federal13 funding. That's how we got it up and14 running in year one. And we have applied15 for a continuation funding that I think16 will go up to as many as four years. We17 have not heard back at this point, so I18 can't answer that. But we're prepared to19 somehow staff it if we don't get all of20 that funding. We actually have two21 proposals out right now. So for the22 immediate future, we're trying to use23 external funding to keep it going, and24 then eventually we will try to build it25 270 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 into the infrastructure.2 I think I've described earlier,3 it's hard to keep everything within the4 infrastructure right now, just because of5 the economic challenges, but at the6 moment, I would say it looks very7 positive that we'll at least get several8 years' funding.9

Councilwoman Brown

And so is10 there a beginning and an end to that11 program of young people involved in that12 for X period of time?13

Dr. Curtis

No. They have14 access throughout their time at the15 College. Oh, absolutely.16

Councilwoman Brown

So it's17 designed to provide supports, life skill,18 academic support so that young people can19 indeed --20

Dr. Curtis

All of that. And21 translate "coaching" literally. We want22 face-to-face engagement with the student23 so that we are intervening as it's24 appropriate or at least interacting on a25 271 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 regular basis. Sometimes it's just a2 conversation to make sure you're not3 missing class, that there aren't things4 going on in your life that would get in5 the way. I think you understand the6 nature of those things.7 COUNCILWOMAN BROWN:8 Absolutely. And if there are things in9 your life that are serving as10 impediments, providing problem-solving11 skills to help --12

Dr. Curtis

Or referrals to13 someone that can do it, that's right.14

Councilwoman Brown

All right,15 then. Now let's move to the business of16 educating. You talked about the actual17 mission statement, and I want to do a18 followup to Councilman Goode's line of19 questioning. Did you say that the CSI is20 a certified disadvantaged business?21

Dr. Curtis

I believe that's22 right. I know it's a woman-owned23 business.24

Councilwoman Brown

Are they25 272 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 local?2

Councilwoman Brown

Might4 there exist in your infrastructure a5 process whereby young people who are6 students at CCP who need work and want to7 work can be the first go-to pool for8 employment in that company?9

Dr. Curtis

I don't know the10 answer to that. The answer at the moment11 is, that does not exist, I believe.12 Okay? I don't know whether that could13 exist or not. This is a service14 contract. It comes with many15 expectations, performance expectations,16 right, including the need for additional17 staff on short notice. But I honestly18 don't know the answer to that.19

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. And20 the same line of questioning around the21 furniture contract that you have. Is22 that a certified-owned business?23

Dr. Curtis

That is a24 minority-owned business.25 273 4/5/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371

Councilwoman Brown

Local?2 Are they local?3