How does10 that impact businesses? Will people have11 to go out now -- the tow trucks that they12 own they can't use because they don't13 weigh enough, they don't have the14 capacity? I thought -- I mean, certainly15 I know larger vehicles need trucks with a16 higher capacity. I understand that,17 clearly understand that. But where does18 that put the existing businesses with the19 weight increase?20
Let me address the21 question of the weight increase. There's22 two things that come to play. If a tow23 truck picks up a vehicle that is too24 heavy, you run the risk of lifting the25 95 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 front wheels of the tow vehicle off the2 ground, and now you have a steering3 situation. You also get involved where4 there's accidents -- you're familiar with5 the small SEPTA, the little 15-passenger6 vehicles that go out and pick people up7 from their homes, take them back. You8 get out -- you have an accident, you get9 out on one of these jobs with a regular10 tow truck, not only do you run the risk11 of the truck's not rated for pulling the12 front wheels off the ground, but now13 you're into a sway and you're going down14 the street like this with a vehicle that15 doesn't have the front wheels completely16 on the ground. So you lose steerability17 and you've got a vehicle that's on the18 back of the truck -- I'm sure you've been19 behind them, where you're like, why is20 that vehicle wobbling like that? That's21 why, it becomes a stability factor.22 Can a 10,000 pound tow truck23 pick up a car? Absolutely. I mean,24 that's been done forever. What is your25 96 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 situation when you get to an accident2 scene? You don't know what you're coming3 up on.4
But in12 Philadelphia, won't it just be rotational13 tow? I'm not talking about the Parking14 Authority tows -- not the Parking15 Authority. The parking lot or parking16 space tows.17 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:18 Councilwoman --19
If we20 don't do rotational tow, what else is21 there?22 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:23 Councilwoman, again, the difference24 between when the rotational tow is in25 97 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 effect and not in effect, this bill is2 talking about the rotational tow. This3 bill is only about the non-consensual4 tows. We're kind of trying to answer the5 questions of making it safer for everyone6 and also with this small group of tows7 that this applies to, make sure that we8 have standards that can be applied easily9 across the industry and easily for the10 citizens of Philadelphia.11 So when you're looking at this12 fulcrum effect of narrowing, it's really13 a small group of matters and a small14 group of tows that this is actually going15 to be applying to. We're just trying to16 get our hands on how do we end up making17 this safe for everyone and look at it18 that way, and I think that the industry19 can actually look at that and say that20 they will be able to bring -- we'll be21 able to take those that have been just22 pieced together that we're deeming to be23 unsafe, that we want to be able to just24 increase the weight so that we'll be able25 98 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 to make sure everybody is operating on2 the same playing field; that's all.3
I'm still --8 and I just would like to follow what9 Councilwoman Miller said. Why would we10 arbitrarily increase the weight of -- the11 capacity of a tow truck just to cover it12 all? If a tow truck can safely carry a13 10,000 pound vehicle with no difficulty,14 it's a matter of common sense and people15 understanding what they can do and what16 they can't do. So why would we --17 (Applause.)18
Why would we19 knock all of these operators that have20 tow trucks that can carry a 10,000 pound21 load? Is it that you're just spec'ing22 them out of the business? That's what I23 think.24 (Applause.)25 99 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
And I think2 it's a disgrace to use legislation to be3 hurtful.4 Thank you.5 (Applause.)6 COUNCILMAN KENNEY:7 Councilwoman Miller.8
Thank9 you. I'm going to leave the weight alone10 for a second and move on to something11 else.12
If you're19 going to move off the weight issue, then20 I'll ask a quick question.21 Of the tow trucks that are22 currently in the rotational system, do we23 know how many fall under the different24 weight classes?25 100 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 DEPUTY
I don't2 have that here. I'd have to provide that3 to the Chair. I know that we have -- we4 take that information on the L&I5 information, but we'd have to get that to6 the Chair.7
That9 was not an issue that -- we're trying to10 look at the bill as a way of getting more11 safety. So I don't have that right here.12
I understand13 that. I'm actually just curious, as it14 comes up and we have discussion, if the15 majority of people already in the16 rotational system meet the higher17 threshold, then it might not make a18 difference.19 DEPUTY
Thank you.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Point of24 order on the weight.25 101 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
Okay.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO:3 W-E-I-G-H-T.4 So it's your testimony that5 based on today's vehicles -- and that's6 the four-passenger, two-passenger up,7 SUVs -- that a 16,000 pound tow truck8 capacity would be the adequate, safer way9 to transport tow vehicles through the10 streets of Philadelphia? That's, I11 think, what we're saying. I know the12 Councilwoman is talking about 10,000. It13 isn't that some vehicles could not be14 transported safely with a tow truck that15 has a 10,000 pound capacity, but is it16 your testimony that the majority of the17 vehicles exceed that capacity?18
No. It's my19 testimony that crashes are not20 discretionary. So when you get called to21 a crash, you don't know if you're coming22 to a crash that has four Ford Cobalts or23 three Hummers that have been involved.24 Flatbeds, another situation, if a car has25 102 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 got to be flatbedded, all the wheels are2 flat, you're not picking this up with a3 regular 10,000 pound tow truck. This guy4 got to be put on a flatbed. Multiple5 vehicles. It was done with all of that6 in mind, what is the scene when you get7 to it.8 Accidents, unfortunately,9 aren't discretionary. Who gets in them10 aren't discretionary.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think12 we're saying the same thing. My point is13 that the 16,000 would more adequately in14 the majority of cases be the appropriate15 weight of a tow truck --16
Absolutely.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- based18 on all those things that you said and19 unknowns that we're not familiar with20 until the scene?21 I mean, I've seen these huge22 tow trucks that are just made for buses23 and large trucks, tractor-trailers,24 what-have-you. Obviously you need more25 103 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 than 16,000 pounds for that, but2 generally speaking. So the testimony is3 that that's the kind of weight limit that4 we believe, you believe is the adequate5 safe way, not to put people out of6 business but actually make it even safer7 for the tow truck drivers, who are, most8 of them, employed driving trucks that may9 not be adequate to remove a car from a10 scene or a disabled car?11
Yes.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So it's13 not about putting people out of business.14 It's actually making it safer for the15 people who work in those businesses as16 well.17
Vince Fenerty,24 the Executive Director of the Parking25 104 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 Authority.2 Just to summarize the weight3 for 30 seconds, it's to have the4 responding tow company better prepared to5 clear the accident, number one, to fall6 within the motor vehicle laws. Number7 two, to safely tow the vehicle. And it's8 not just for the safety of the tow9 driver; it's also for the safety of the10 other motorists who have to pass by a tow11 truck or a tow truck has to pass by them,12 so there's no sidewinders or anything13 like that. It was spec'd out at a little14 higher for the safety of others.15 If you have a vehicle with16 disproportionate weight towing17 disproportionate weight, you have a18 bigger chance of an accident. When you19 have an accident with a tow vehicle, it's20 not an accident with one vehicle, it's an21 accident with whatever the tow vehicle is22 also towing. So we spec'd just a little23 bit higher in order to provide safety for24 the public. That's simply what it is.25 105 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
Councilman, to kind2 of give you an idea, if it will help you,3 and Councilwoman Miller. I'll use a UPS4 truck, which everyone is pretty familiar5 with, cube van that delivers throughout6 Center City all day long. With our tow7 trucks, if you look at our new Dodge 5508 tow truck chassis, we can come in to an9 accident, not that we're looking to do10 that, but we can come in to an accident11 and pick that UPS truck up and tow it12 from the scene. You can't do that with13 these 10,000 pound tow trucks. And14 that's how this was done, because15 accidents, as I said, are not16 discretionary. So you don't know what17 you're coming to the scene of. You're18 coming to an accident, and those weights19 send you to the scene better prepared to20 handle what's there when you arrive at21 the location.22 COUNCILMAN KENNEY:23 Councilwoman Miller.24
You know,25 106 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 I understand that. I mean, I understand2 that the heavier the truck, the better3 the capacity. I really do understand4 that. But has there been accidents? I5 mean, have there been accidents with the6 10,000 pound or whatever?7 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:8 Councilwoman, I don't have any9 information before me right now. I can10 actually do that if you'd like to --11
I can17 provide that. What I'm trying to and18 what I would just state to you is that as19 we were looking at how to make sure that20 we were providing a level base, that we21 wanted to have a way for the industry to22 respond to whatever they came upon, and23 the idea was that this might be a way for24 us to provide a safety response to any25 107 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 particular accident, and by raising this,2 we'd be able to -- raising the weight3 level of the vehicle, we would be able to4 provide that.5
So then6 if this becomes law, how long do people7 have -- how long will people have to8 comply with the new requirements?9 DEPUTY
I10 believe that the law would be, if I11 remember correctly, there was a12 discussion about not having this go into13 effect immediately, but delaying the14 matter. We also have to go to the state15 in order to work out additional details.16
We did not17 put an effective date of enforcement on,18 because we did have the issue of an MOU19 that had to be developed between the City20 and the Parking Authority and we also,21 prior to that, needed state approval,22 which we believe we can get but we're not23 sure, on the exact timetable for that.24
So in the25 108 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 meantime, if someone gets called on a2 rotational tow, if their vehicle only3 weighs 10,000 pounds, then it's okay?4 DEPUTY
Yes.5 Yes. I mean, as long as they can tow it6 safely, the answer is yes.7
But part of10 the problem that we're addressing is the11 rotational tow system is grossly12 dysfunctional and what we wind up with is13 this interim catch as catch can with14 people at a high speed getting to the15 scene first because there's really no16 rotational system, so to speak. And17 that's part of what is being addressed in18 this bill, is that the actual dispatch of19 the next person up on the rotation list20 will be done 24/7 by the Parking21 Authority dispatcher as opposed to a 91122 overworked call taker.23
You know,24 I understand the purpose of the bill. I25 109 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 just want to understand the purpose of2 all these amendments, like where did you3 come up with some of this stuff.4 (Applause.)5
Yes,8 Councilman.9 COUNCILMAN RIZZO:10 Mr. Gillison, are you telling me that11 basically you've given up? You told me12 that you were well on the way to fix the13 rotational system, that you were going to14 install laptops in fire apparatus and15 medic units to again dry up the airwaves.16 What I'm hearing today, the Nutter17 Administration, you as the Deputy Mayor,18 have given up on fixing this system? Is19 that what I'm hearing?20 DEPUTY
Going to the23 Parking Authority, which I have a lot of24 respect for, but you're telling me today25 110 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 that you've basically given up in fixing2 what you already have.3 DEPUTY
No.4 What you're hearing is that we are doing5 both things. We are looking at the6 amendments that has been put forward by7 Councilman Kenney. We are agreeing that8 it would make sense for us to move to9 that area. We are also continuing to do10 what I suggested to you that I am doing,11 which is not only placing the MDTs in,12 but also to make sure that we're putting13 the MDTs in the fire. I'm doing both.14 I am trying to make sure that15 we provide a modicum of safety for this16 city that makes sure that what I saw on17 this doesn't exist anymore, and also I'm18 going to make sure that I provide safety19 for the citizens of the City.20
What you saw21 today was before you pulled the plug on22 the radio system. You also didn't see23 some of the conduct of City employees,24 which we never got to talk about, in the25 111 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 Police Department.2 (Applause.)3
This is old4 tape. It's old news. What you should be5 talking about today is what you've done6 to fix it and why you can't fix it.7 DEPUTY
Well,8 Councilman, in response to information9 that you provided me, I did -- I was10 given the opportunity to look at some11 things that you provided me.12
Did you see13 some conduct that you didn't appreciate14 it?15 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:16 Absolutely. And I saw exactly what was17 being done, and we are trying to make18 sure, which is why we've put out various19 new training to help with that.20
So if you21 could fix the rotational system based on22 the legislation that's in place -- and,23 listen, I told you a long time ago, I'm24 for whatever fixes this problem --25 112 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 DEPUTY
-- but it4 seems like we're cutting off our arm5 unnecessarily here.6 Fix the problem. You told me7 you had a plan in fixing this problem8 without resorting to this drastic step.9 The insurance industry already called me10 and said the minute the Parking Authority11 takes custody of a vehicle, A, they have12 it hostage if there's any tickets; B --13 (Applause.)14
-- B, that15 most of these wrecks will be picked up by16 the insurance companies and immediately17 taken to Bensalem, across City lines --18 (Applause.)19
-- for20 repair, where they can get the job done21 as cheaply as possible, not in our City22 of Philadelphia.23 (Applause.)24
So I would25 113 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 have been impressed if the Nutter2 Administration would have tried to fix3 and look out for people that have an4 interest in Philadelphia.5 (Applause.)6
They know7 that some of the conduct has been -- the8 conduct is bad. The conduct is bad, but9 all I can tell you is this: That what10 you've done already to try to fix the11 program is working. The conduct of the12 wreck chasers and the people in this13 industry has improved since you've taken14 dispatches off the air and --15
It's months24 old. Months old.25 114 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
By the way,6 there's a new -- you're going to have to7 sit down, sir.8 Now, listen, you are right,9 they stopped the MDTs. Now they monitor10 police radio for rescue dispatch.11
But the12 Deputy Mayor is going to put the laptops13 in the fire equipment.14
I15 understand, but so they went from the16 MDTs to the fire band in order to wreck17 chase to a scene. So it's really18 improved.19
Very soon.23 The Deputy Mayor said he's in the process24 of installing the laptops in the25 115 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 rescue --2
This3 hearing, as I said at the outset, is to4 discuss the amendments. If there's5 questions on the amendments, we'll be6 happy to have a back and forth. If you7 disagree with the bill in concept, then8 you'll vote against it, and that's fine.9
Just what10 you said earlier, we're here to discuss11 it.12
We had a16 prior -- let me finish. We had a prior17 hearing on the concept. This is the18 amendment to that concept. We're going19 to have weeks before we ultimately vote20 on it, so there's going to be a lot of21 discussion. But this is a hearing on22 these amendments, and if there's23 questions on the amendments, we'll24 certainly try to answer them.25 116 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
Well, I2 don't know -- the amendments weren't3 circulated to everyone in this Council.4
If you'd12 like to vote on it, you can vote on it.13 If you don't, you don't have to vote on14 it.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman16 Rizzo, that's a cheap shot. You know17 that all committees get amendments, and18 then if members who are not on those19 committee want those amendments,20 everybody is entitled to them. You get21 an opportunity to read those amendments22 before you get to vote on it. So don't23 make it sound like this is some sort of a24 new way of doing business in the Council.25 117 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
No. It's2 just like changing the weight3 classification --4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You've had5 amendments, too. I'm not going to argue6 with you.7 (Applause.)8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You've had9 amendments, too.10
Are there11 any other questions on the amendments?12 Mr. Fenerty? I'm sorry;13 Councilman Clarke.14 Councilman Clarke has a15 question.16
Thank you,17 Mr. Chair.18 I'm probably the least19 knowledgeable person in this room on this20 particular issue, and for that I21 apologize, because I've been focused on22 so many things, and that's no excuse. So23 I have to get educated on this whole24 issue as we proceed.25 118 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 But I just wanted to go back to2 this weight classification issue, if I3 may, and I don't want to belabor the4 point. My understanding, that there is a5 proposal on the table to essentially6 build capacity within the industry, so7 all of these vehicles would have to be8 able to accommodate whatever. So that9 requires that all of the vehicles be of a10 certain weight classification.11 DEPUTY
Sorry,12 Councilman. At least a minimum13 classification.14
Which would15 be? I keep hearing this 16,000 pound.16 Is that --17 DEPUTY
Yes.22 It's on , Councilman. It goes23 between the flat car rate of --24 manufacturer rated capacity of at least25 119 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 eight, from eight to 16,000 pounds gross2 vehicle weight. So that's the idea.3
So the4 purpose of this is to essentially make5 sure that when these vehicles show up,6 they'll be able to tow whatever?7 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:8 Whatever happens, they can handle and9 handle it quickly.10
So the11 earlier question -- and you answered in a12 way by essentially saying you don't have13 the information -- that have there been14 incidences where we have had a situation15 where the front wheels raised on a16 vehicle because the weight load was too17 heavy, I mean --18 DEPUTY
That's19 only by anecdote, but what I've asked and20 what I have instructed to get additional21 information is is that to look at the22 industry that's out there currently. I23 don't have that before me now. That's24 what I've asked L&I.25 120 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
Does2 anybody know, people from the Authority3 or the Administration, if that's4 happened? And I'm asking this question5 because, you know, I'm a little6 concerned, and I've expressed my concern7 to the Chairman about just the whole8 issue, and I don't know where I'll be9 yet. If somehow say 50 percent of the10 existing tow drivers don't have vehicles11 that can accommodate that particular12 weight load and then somehow there's13 not -- they're not in the position to14 adequately respond to the new15 requirement, then the option would be16 essentially to use the Parking Authority17 maybe?18
I'm trying22 to get educated on it. The option would23 be what, the next person in line?24 DEPUTY
Yes.25 121 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 The answer is yes.2
There was a5 desire to take this -- if there was an6 initial desire to take this entirely away7 from the industry, this bill would have8 been drafted to have the Parking9 Authority respond to every accident10 scene. The key to this whole bill is the11 ultimate disposition of the car. The12 problem is where the car goes and what13 its condition is and how it's held and14 how it's released that's not consistent.15 I didn't want to take the16 private industry out, because we would17 have done it in the original bill. We18 wanted them to tow, but just tow to a19 certain location.20
You've21 answered my question. I'm just trying to22 get to a point.23 So it goes to the next24 available tower --25 122 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 DEPUTY
We want6 to be supportive of the private. That's7 why we wanted to keep it as a rotation,8 which is why we were just looking at the9 standards, to make sure we're playing on10 a level playing field.11
Do we have12 a sense of how many of the vehicles13 currently owned by private people meet14 that criteria?15 DEPUTY
No.16 That's the question that was asked by the17 Chair, and I will be able to get that18 from L&I and I will provide that to the19 Chair, because I don't have that before20 me right now.21
L&I would22 have information on all of the towers23 within the rotational system?24
Point of25 123 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 information.2 DEPUTY
Yes.3 We currently have 87 to 94 that are part4 of the rotational system.5
Just very11 quickly, because I just want to clear the12 air. There seems to be a debate here13 that's not in the right context. It's14 not in the context of the legislation. I15 think there's a misunderstanding of the16 legislation. I just want to make one17 point clear very quickly.18 Deputy Mayor, if this bill is19 passed by this Committee, passed by the20 full Council, signed into law by the21 Mayor, the effective date is in fact22 whenever he signs it. Who is in charge23 that day?24 DEPUTY
When25 124 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 you say "who is in charge," the2 rotational program is under me.3
The7 enforcement agency is a branch of --8 executive branch of government?9 DEPUTY
So that12 doesn't change from what exists right13 now?14 DEPUTY
So if this17 were to become law, nothing changes in18 terms of who is in charge?19 DEPUTY
I don't22 think that's clear to everyone here.23 DEPUTY
That's24 correct.25 125 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
There's2 people here saying it's not true, but3 that is true.4 DEPUTY
That is6 true, and that's why I made the point of7 information. The day that this is signed8 into law, if it is, regardless of what it9 says, the same people are in charge.10 DEPUTY
That is12 true. If you don't believe it, you don't13 believe it, but that is true.14 DEPUTY
The same16 people are in charge the day it is signed17 into law.18 DEPUTY
Thank you.22 So with respect to this23 amendment, the only issue that changes is24 the requirement of a higher25 126 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 classification of vehicle by --2 DEPUTY
No.3 That's not the only one. There are4 several different amendments about --5
Just on6 this particular issue. I'm trying to get7 educated. Again, I apologize for not8 being as well prepared on this particular9 issue, but if you don't ask the question,10 I don't want to vote in ignorance.11 And I do think I believe12 earlier you said with respect to the13 numbers -- and we don't know; it could be14 75 percent of the people that don't meet15 that classification -- they would be16 required to buy new vehicles to be17 prepared to be in the rotational system?18
Let me make19 a suggestion relative to the information20 that we're bantering about now because we21 don't know the answer. Once we have the22 information on just how many folks in the23 current system it affects, I'd be open to24 amending the initial weight to a lower25 127 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 number to accommodate as many as2 possible, as long as we fall within3 safety guidelines. So, I mean, I'm4 not -- if this bill gets out of Committee5 today, it's still open for amendment6 relative to the initial minimum gross7 weight based on the information that's8 provided by L&I on how many would be9 eliminated.10
And with12 respect to that commitment, who13 determines safety standards? Because if14 it's found -- and we don't know -- that15 there have been no incidences where16 current vehicles have had problems17 lifting vehicles, then how is that18 determined? Is it based on history or19 based on an arbitrary decision, well, you20 know what, it should be this?21
Well, it22 could be based on what other cities23 require, what the industry standard. I24 mean, there are certain -- certainly this25 128 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 particular number is open for reduction2 in regards to what information is3 provided or comes to light relative to4 their getting --5
Mr. Chairman, can8 I possibly take just a stab at this?9 We'll go back and we'll look at10 the minimum gross weight again and see11 what adjustments can be made or should be12 made and make that recommendation to the13 Chair.14 Whatever date this would become15 law, I would also suggest to the Chair16 that the possibility is out there that we17 could possibly look at a timeframe of18 grandfathering those vehicles in that19 don't meet it and restricting them to20 certain types of tow until we give them a21 date that the grandfather provision would22 expire. That would be fair, and it23 wouldn't put anyone out of business. It24 may just diminish the pie that they could25 129 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 tow as far as rotational tows. They2 wouldn't be able to tow something that3 was out of their weight scope, but it4 would give them time and means to upgrade5 their tow fleet. I think that would be6 very fair.7 And also, to answer one other8 question that was brought up here and9 brought up again, is on the rotational10 tow system when a vehicle is brought into11 our yard, we would not be holding a12 vehicle for outstanding parking tickets.13 We do not do that with crash tows.14
I'm sorry,15 Mr. Fenerty. We'll wait until you have a16 little quiet.17
I'm very sorry if18 there's some people who don't believe in19 my truthfulness, but right now when we20 tow from the interstates, when a vehicle21 is impounded because of a crash on an22 interstate, that is a crash tow. Those23 individuals are victims. They've been in24 an accident. It was not done25 130 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 intentional. They pay the towing fee and2 storage fee and they're released. Their3 vehicles are not held, they're not held4 in order to collect parking tickets. The5 vehicles to be released do have to have6 proper tags and insurance, as any vehicle7 would, or else they have to be removed by8 towing from the premises. But we do not9 intend to hold crash tows from rotational10 towing for parking tickets, and that11 would be part of the standard operating12 procedures. So if that would put13 anyone's mind to ease, we're not going to14 victimize the crash victim a second time.15
Not that16 you're advocating not paying your parking17 tickets.18
Most certainly19 not, but we don't do that with crash20 tows, since that's been brought up. We21 list them for further hearings. If they22 don't appear, we get them by other23 enforcement methods, by booting, by24 towing them or by going to court with25 131 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 them.2
Thank you,5 Mr. Chair. I've actually become versed6 on that particular issue. Thank you.7
Any other8 questions for these witnesses on the9 amendments?10 Councilwoman Miller.11
I just12 want to get clarity again on this AAA13 issue. If I am involved in an accident14 and I'm going to -- my car has a15 non-consensual tow, it's blocking the16 highway and you said you'll move it, who17 moves it and maybe if you only move it a18 block or just move it from blocking the19 highway, who does that?20 DEPUTY
That21 would be -- the rotational tow would be22 activated. The person, the private tower23 who is next up on the rotation, would24 come, would move the vehicle, would take25 132 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 the vehicle to the side or take the2 vehicle a block or whatever -- however3 you've constructed the matter.4
Or take it5 where you direct them to. You can direct6 them to take it where you want.7 DEPUTY
So if I'm15 in an accident and I'm hopefully well16 enough to understand that I don't need to17 go to the hospital but I need to get a18 tow operator here, and if I call AAA and19 if they can't get there quick enough,20 then I'm out, right?21 DEPUTY
You22 have to understand, the idea of the23 rotational tow is to, A, allow for people24 to get the vehicle out of the traffic25 133 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 flow. Once it's out of the traffic flow2 and once we've activated the rotational3 tow to do that, you as the consumer can4 say to the person since it's a5 non-consensual tow, Okay, move it out of6 the road of the street. You can tell7 them to put it on the side. You can tell8 them to take it home. You can tell them9 to put it over just 15 feet out of the10 way. And then you can call AAA at that11 point if you'd like and then you can take12 it from there. That's what you can do.13
But I'm14 paying $175 just to get them to tow it15 like right there.16 (Applause.)17 DEPUTY
The18 nature of the non-consensual tow is to19 make sure that in public safety we have20 opened up the lanes for both the citizens21 of Philadelphia for flow as well as to22 make sure that you as a citizen can23 actually move the vehicle where you need24 to. If you ended up deciding that you25 134 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 wanted to have your AAA vehicle -- your2 AAA tower to come and get the vehicle,3 they're not part of the rotational tow.4 That's what the private folks that we are5 trying to support. So we want to make6 sure that they get there, they move the7 vehicle, they move it to the side or they8 take it where you need it to go. After9 that, then, yes, you can use your AAA10 because your vehicle is disabled, you can11 move it and you can take it from there.12 We're trying to make sure that13 we keep an even playing field to how to14 respond to the accident scene and moving15 it out of the traffic flow. That's why16 we have non-consensual tows under the17 bill.18
Just as an19 addendum, I would suspect, although20 probably not in every instance, that a21 person who has AAA also has insurance,22 which most likely that they would, and23 the insurance would pick up the cost over24 your deductible of the costs that occur25 135 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 as a result of being in an accident.2
So the3 insurance would probably pick up the cost4 of the tow?5
If you8 have full tort.9 Okay. You know, I just want to10 get some of this stuff on the record. On11 the -- under Towing Operator License12 amendment, I just want to make sure who13 we're talking about in terms of14 ex-offenders or offenders when we15 describe -- I just want to make sure the16 ex-offenders are not excluded from17 working for a tow company. So for the18 record, what ex-offenders or offenders19 are we talking about?20 DEPUTY
Mostly21 Megan's Law and also persons who have22 violated the matters dealing with vehicle23 theft and chop shop kind of related24 matters. We wanted to make sure that we25 136 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 didn't have the proverbial -- and, as you2 know, I'm an extreme supporter of3 ex-offenders and all the work that we're4 trying to get done with that. I wanted5 to make sure that we tailored who would6 be excluded to only individuals that the7 law should apply to. I'm really big into8 rational relationships between what's9 going on and what's not -- what you10 shouldn't do. I don't suggest to banks11 that they need to hire an ex-offender if12 that's a bank robber. I don't want to13 put anyone who is in a Megan's Law14 situation who has to deal with the public15 that has to deal with -- to deal with16 this particular situation, and similarly17 those who have violated the chop shop18 provisions of the Motor Vehicle Code or19 the Criminal Code, we want to make sure20 that they're not associated with this21 either.22 Those are the things that are23 tailored, to make sure it's a narrowly24 defined area rather than just being some25 137 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 broad prohibition, because obviously I2 would like to see as many people get3 jobs, especially ex-offenders, and this4 is an opportunity for them to work.5
Okay.6 Good. And have we yet -- I was told by7 the Parking Authority actually that -- I8 did ask the question I think of Kevin9 Feeley -- Healy when I believe when10 Councilman Rizzo's bill was being heard,11 did we have a number on the number of12 daily accidents so we could figure out13 this rotation business with 87 people14 signed up to be a part of rotation and15 many of them saying that they've never16 been called. Well, how many accidents17 are we having daily and how often would18 someone be called?19
The information20 and feedback we've gotten, Councilwoman,21 is about 30 a day.22
Thirty a23 day, right. That's my understanding.24 DEPUTY
And I25 138 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 will just add to that, if you recall,2 currently we have approximately the 87 to3 94 people on the rotational tow. As a4 result of how that works, that obviously5 the large number keeps the number of6 times a person would be called down. We7 are still -- we're auditing how people8 are dispatched and what happens, and9 we'll be able to provide that. You10 should have that pretty soon, and that11 will be provided to the Chair.12
Okay.13 Because that was -- that's really an14 issue, that the towers are saying they15 are not being called.16 For now, Councilman Kenney,17 that's it. I know you want to call some18 of the other folks.19
Okay.20 Thank you very much. Thank you.21 Any other questions for these22 witnesses on the amendments?23 (No response.)24
Seeing25 139 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 none, Mr. Steffa and Mr. Giral, please.2 I would ask -- I'm sorry to ask3 you to wait around, but I have to. I4 apologize.5 (Witnesses approached witness6 table.)7
Please8 identify yourself for the record and9 proceed with your testimony on the10 amendments.11
Good afternoon,12 Council. My name is Jose Giral from13 Durkas Towing, and I just want to get14 back to something that you guys were15 talking about, the weight class. I have16 like four tow trucks and I'm not an17 expert on the weight class, but we do18 have an expert here on weight class.19
We have two experts25 140 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 actually here that can testify on the2 weight class.3 So you want to...4
Excuse me.11 Before we go further, is Mr. Steffa here?12
I'm the23 owner/operator at Unique Transport and24 Recovery. of the City. I've logged about 15 years2 in the business. 4 You guys are talking about5 weight classes. Well, you have three6 different classes of towing. You have7 light duty, you have medium duty and you8 have heavy duty. In the light-duty9 class, a light-duty truck starts at10 10,000 GVW, gross vehicle weight, and11 that number comes from a formula that's12 used for towing capacity, and that13 formula is half of the front axle weight,14 multiplied by the wheel base, divided by15 the overhang. 18 The axle on the tow truck might19 be 4,000 pounds. You take half that20 weight, which is 2,000 pounds. You take21 the length of the vehicle in inches, you22 multiply that by 2,000, then you divide23 it by the length that the car hangs over24 the back axle. 2 I have a light-duty flatbed,3 which is 19,000 pounds. I also have a4 medium-duty flatbed, which is 25,9505 pounds. 9 When you're talking about a10 wrecker, a wrecker is what you guys call11 a tow truck, and that picks up half the12 weight of the vehicle. If the vehicle13 itself, just to give you an idea so you14 understand, a Neon would weight about15 2,400 pounds. A Bentley would weigh16 about 5,700 pounds. Most of your SUVs17 fall in around 3,600 pounds. If I'm18 picking up the front of the vehicle where19 the engine is located, that would be the20 heaviest end of the vehicle. That would21 be about 1,900 pounds, is all I'm22 carrying. I wouldn't need a truck for23 16,000 GVW for that. 1 small-class flatbed. 3 The safety, when it comes to4 towing, you go to the dual axle. When5 you have four wheels in the rear, you6 have stability. 7 The reason why you guys changed, I guess,8 about six years ago, you changed from9 8,000 GVW to 10,000 GVW. That was a very10 good move. Eight thousand GVW is a11 single-axle truck. That person going12 down the highway, God forbid they get a13 flat tire, they have no stability. You14 go to a 10,000 GVW, which is a one-ton15 truck, that's considered a one-ton truck,16 now he has four tires. 18 So what you guys call a19 homemade tow truck, which I think is a20 negative term, you have a 350 wrecker21 that starts out as a 350 pickup. The22 wrecker body that you put on the truck is23 certified by the wrecker company. 2 You guys passed a law that we3 have to have everything certified before4 we go to Truck Enforcement. 8 The other thing that I wanted9 to mention to you guys was, when you're10 towing a vehicle under 1,700 pounds,11 federal law dictates that you cannot12 charge more than $150 for the tow. 14 In our rotation system that we15 have, we had to agree to the rate being16 150 for the tow, the storage being $2517 for a maximum of seven days. If the car18 sits there a year or not, it doesn't19 matter. We had to also accept credit20 cards. 24 I'm on that list. 3 In the last year and a half to two years4 since the rotation has started, I've5 gotten maybe 40 calls, 40 calls. 6 In over 18 months. The reason that we're7 having problems is because -- you guys8 saw that entertainment over there9 earlier? That was strictly10 entertainment. Everything on that show11 was scripted. I didn't see the area12 where we had a captain from our area13 simply say we can't survive without these14 guys. And we're not there to clean the15 cars up. 21 Okay? My three employees are just as22 important as the 1,100 employees that my23 position has. 3
Year and a8 half. Well, what makes you think you'll9 get less under this?10
No. The reason why11 we don't get the calls -- there's a few12 reasons why we don't get the calls, and I13 can explain a lot of things to you right14 now. The reason why we don't get the15 calls is, we're limited to broken-down16 vehicles and accidents. You go to any17 other municipality in our immediate area,18 they're doing the impounds for the19 police, which gives you more work to do.20 They're doing the abandoned vehicles for21 the police, which gives you more work to22 do. They're doing the stolen cars for23 the police, which gives you more work to24 do. So you take five different things,25 147 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 accidents, abandoneds, thefts, impounds,2 and you give us just accidents. It's not3 enough work there for us.4 If the police officer gets5 there and the police officer sees a6 tower -- I don't know the law for being a7 policeman, he doesn't know the law for8 being a tower. He can get there and say9 the car is not drivable or the car is10 drivable. It's up to the police11 officer's discretion to make the phone12 call.13 Now, if he gets there and he14 got two or three other trucks there,15 it's, quote/unquote, understood that they16 can go ahead and handle their business.17
It won't be18 the police officers' discretion in the19 future.20
So you're saying21 every accident call is going to be sent a22 tow truck to?23
It's going24 to be sent from 911 to the Parking25 148 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 Authority 24/7 dispatch. They will keep2 the list. They will make the call.3