Excuse me.6 The police officer on the scene will not7 have the discretion. Part of the problem8 with the system now is police discretion.9 Part of that problem is they making10 decisions on the street they maybe not11 should be making. So we're going to take12 all of that out of their hands, take out13 the overworked 911 room, which really14 shouldn't be handling this stuff, and15 allow Parking Authority dispatch 24/716 operation to make the calls to the next17 rotation tow up on the list.18
I think you20 should wind up with more work than you're21 getting now.22
Well, we might.23 The question I was asking is, when24 somebody calls the police and they had an25 149 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 accident, whether it's a fender-bender or2 a major accident, you're saying every3 time an accident comes into police radio,4 you're going to dispatch a police officer5 and a tow truck?6
Can I10 finish, please.11 Any time a call comes into 91112 about an accident on the scene, it will13 be sent over via radio to the 24/714 Parking Authority dispatch, who will keep15 the list, who will take care of -- keep16 the count of who gets called, how fast17 they respond, how many times they get18 called, and they will make the call. The19 911 room is out of it, hopefully, as they20 should be out of it, because they got21 other things to do rather than22 dispatching and calling tow trucks.23
Well, I disagree24 with that, because towing --25 150 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
Well,2 you're getting 40 calls in a year and a3 half now. I don't see how --4
No, no. Hear me5 out. Forty calls in a year and a half is6 not going to sustain my business.7
Just so you9 understand what I'm saying, the reason10 why I said I disagree with you is this:11 If you guys are going to use the Parking12 Authority to govern our rotation that's13 already been -- that's working fine, I14 haven't had one complaint.15
How do you16 tell me it's working fine? You said you17 got 40 calls in a year and a half. How18 is that working fine?19
I don't need the20 Parking Authority to give me more calls.21 They're not going to give me more calls.22
Regardless23 of who it is, if -- say it was Parking24 Authority, and you wind up with double25 151 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 the amount of calls in the year --2
Excuse me.13 We're not speculating. He just told me14 he got --15
He just18 told me he got 40 calls in a year and a19 half.20
We don't have that21 data in front of us. We don't have that22 data.23
He just24 told me.25 152 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
And I'm also on6 that tow rotation. So it must be running7 fairly if he got just about the same8 calls that I did.9
So you're10 happy with the 40 calls in a year and a11 half?12
I would love to get17 more, but it is what it is. We don't18 have the information --19
Would you25 153 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 ask --2
I'm sorry.3 Councilman DiCicco is on the Committee.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman5 Goode has a question.6
Councilman7 Goode, who is on the Committee, has a8 question.9
Mr. White,10 thank you for your testimony and thank11 you for the expertise you bring --12
-- to the14 table. I'm learning more about the tow15 truck business. I'm sure I don't know as16 much as you do.17 A couple questions. The first18 major question is, are you against this19 legislation in totality or are you20 against parts of this legislation?21
Are you24 against this legislation in totality or25 154 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 are you against parts of this2 legislation? Do you think this3 legislation should be amended or do you4 totally oppose it?5
I think that we6 should have members in the industry7 involved with decision-making.8
That's not9 the question. The question I'm asking is10 about -- excuse me. I asked him a11 question.12
The heat in18 this room is entirely too hot. We have19 discussion. That's what I'm trying to20 do.21
I actually23 acknowledge his expertise. I'm trying to24 ask him a question.25 155 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
Let me4 finish. This is the actual bill. I'm5 asking, are you against the bill in6 total, whether you think it needs to be7 totally destroyed, or whether you think8 it needs to be amended. That's the first9 question I'm asking.10
I think that it11 needs to be totally destroyed so that we12 can --13 (Applause.)14
The reason I said I15 think it needs to be totally destroyed --16
That's the17 first question.18 The second question is, have19 you read the legislation?20
Then how do23 you know it should be totally destroyed?24
Well, no. It's25 156 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 bits and pieces I understand and bits and2 pieces that I just don't quite3 understand.4
The question5 was very simple. The question was6 whether it needs to be totally destroyed7 or whether it needs to be amended. The8 second question was whether you actually9 read it.10
So you12 didn't read anything in here that you13 agree with?14
I've read it, but15 you have to -- I don't quite understand16 it all, because I'm not a lawyer.17
Let's deal25 157 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 with the weight issue, because that's the2 first issue you brought up, and you were3 expert in it more so than I am.4
I'm going to tell21 you the reason being. It's a rollback.22 It's not a wrecker. I'm carrying two23 vehicles, so I need the added GVW so that24 I can carry two vehicles. Now, on my25 158 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 small truck, I'm 63,000 just on the2 bed -- I mean 6,300 just on the bed and3 I'm 3,300 on the bed and 18 on the wheel4 lift. That's the combination.5
I'm not6 asking you what should be in the7 legislation right now. This is the third8 question. The third question was, do you9 have a light-duty truck? Is the weight10 19,000? Is it 19,000? Why?11
Because it's a12 rollback. It's 26 foot long -- I'm13 sorry. That truck is 21 foot long. It's14 a rollback. It's not a wrecker. You15 have two different kind of trucks. You16 have a wrecker and you have rollbacks,17 which is a flatbed you guys call it.18 That same class truck 550, which is my19 small truck, and the wrecker, the GVW20 will be 14,000, that same exact truck,21 because it doesn't have the length.22 Remember I said about the towing23 capacity? It's half the front axle24 weight, multiplied by the wheel base,25 159 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 which is the length. So the longer the2 vehicle, the higher the GVW goes.3
Councilman14 DiCicco, do you have any questions?15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think16 Councilman Goode pretty much asked them.17 I do want to thank you for your18 testimony.19 You arrive on the scene and the20 vehicle that needs to be removed exceeds21 the limit of your truck, someone else's22 truck. How do you ensure that that23 company takes the appropriate steps to24 make certain that a vehicle that is25 160 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 adequate to remove that is sent out to2 the scene and someone just doesn't try to3 move it along?4
I mean, that's kind5 of a tricky question, because it has to6 go to the person's professionalism. When7 I arrive on the scene, my exposure is8 large. I have my own company.9 Everything is in my name. I'm not10 incorporated. I'm doing business as11 Unique Transport. So I wouldn't make an12 attempt to tow something that I can't tow13 safely. You understand what I'm saying?14 So then you go to the individual. You15 understand what I'm saying? When I get16 there, if I see a vehicle that exceeds17 10,000 pounds, there's nothing I can do18 with it. I would have to subcontract a19 heavy truck out there. You understand20 what I'm saying? Because I don't have21 the heavy truck.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And you're23 a responsible tow truck operator.24
Very responsible.25 161 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So if you2 had multiple trucks -- you have two, but3 if you had more than two and you have4 people working for you and one of your5 employees is sent out to remove a6 vehicle, not knowing what the size and7 weight of that vehicle is, do you have8 any recommendations or suggestions what9 we may be able to do, either incorporated10 in the legislation or policy through L&I,11 to ensure that those steps are taken to12 make certain that the vehicle that's13 towing is adequate to remove that car?14 And if you don't have the answers now, I15 appreciate you submitting them to the16 Chair.17
I have an idea.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And that's19 where I think Councilman Goode was going.20 You're not in disagreement with21 everything that's in here, but you may22 have some positive feedback that we can23 take a look at. And I know we don't want24 to go on with this for the next 1225 162 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 months.2
But3 honestly, Councilman, not to interrupt,4 but we are open to renegotiating the5 initial gross weight. It was very clear6 from Councilwoman Miller's comments and7 questions, Councilman Clarke's comments8 and questions that when we get some9 additional information back from the10 authorities involved, that we can adjust11 the gross weight, minimum gross weight,12 in an amendment.13 Yes, sir.14
I just23 have a question. It's about the gross24 weight.25 163 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 When you get a call as a tower,2 wouldn't you ask what type of car it is?3
I'm going to give4 you an example of a call from rotation,5 from police radio.6 Unique Transport. May I help7 you?8 This is police radio. I have a9 rotation call for you, 400 West Harvey10 Street, you know, Lincoln Drive and11 Harvey.12 What kind of vehicle do you13 have down there?14 I got an '07 Lexus 400. It hit15 a fire hydrant.16 That's the way I get the call.17 So automatically in my brain I'm sending18 a truck out that can handle an '07 Lexus19 450. Now, I'm also remembering, this20 vehicle hit a fire hydrant, so it might21 be impaled. What I mean by that is, the22 fire hydrant might be in the car. So I23 need to have something out there with a24 boom, because I have to get the vehicle25 164 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 off the fire hydrant.2 So when you get the call from3 police radio, you get the information you4 need.5
So you6 know what kind of vehicle to send, if you7 have that choice?8
Could you19 tell me, what is your recent tow truck,20 how much did it cost?21
Would you23 intentionally overload your tow truck for24 $175 and damage it, destroy it?25 165 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
One second. I'm2 going to give you an even better3 exposure. I just put a new motor in last4 week. It cost me 10 grand cash. So now5 we have 50,000. Now ask your question.6
So you would7 not intentionally abuse your equipment8 for a $175 tow?9
Could you11 bring to the witness table Lieutenant12 Healy? Because apparently, Mr. Chairman,13 you're not aware that Deputy Mayor14 Gillison, the Police Commissioner with15 Lieutenant Healy's guidance has changed16 the way the 911 dispatch occurs. Could17 you have him explain it to you since18 you're not aware?19
Well, I20 want to get through this witness first21 before we --22
Okay. Then23 you'll allow him to come? Because it's24 relevant to the questions, because --25 166 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
-- obviously3 we're not aware -- I'm aware, but you're4 not aware of how the Police Department5 dispatches.6 He didn't know. He just7 said --8
All I know9 is the 911 room is pretty busy. The 91110 room is pretty busy.11
But the 91112 room doesn't do what you described13 earlier.14
Okay.18 Good.19 Could you please identify20 yourself for the record and proceed.21
Yes. Jose Giral22 from Durkas Towing.23 I'd just like to say that24 during the testimony of the25 167 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 Administration, they never mentioned any2 industry input in it. It was all done3 private meetings with the Parking4 Authority, the Police Department, the5 Deputy Mayors, L&I. The only way any6 program in any city will work, if you7 have -- we have a lot of talent in our8 industry, as you just saw by the9 testimony, and I think that's very10 important, and I think we've been11 excluded, totally excluded, from the12 conversation.13
As a matter22 of fact, in the amendments in this piece23 of legislation right now are one or two,24 maybe two recommendations made by you25 168 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 guys in our meetings. One is -- so to2 portray it as if you've had no input is3 not accurate. We've met, and as a matter4 of fact, in this document is5 recommendations that you've made and6 potentially additional recommendations on7 gross weight that may go down.8 I don't -- do you want to write9 the bill? I don't know what else -- I10 mean, other than having you -- meet with11 you, listening to you and taking your12 concerns into consideration and trying to13 articulate them in an amendment, I don't14 know what else I can do.15
You're not helping16 industry. You're not helping small17 businesses by passing this bill. You're18 going to destroy the towing industry19 completely and monopolize it and give it20 to the Parking Authority.21
Well,22 that's been your testimony from the last23 three times you've testified, and you24 certainly have the right to express it.25 169 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 I just don't agree with it.2
Councilman Kenney,3 I wanted to just address one or maybe a4 few questions to you. The first question5 that I have, if this bill is passed and6 you guys -- like you're asking when would7 it go into effect before the people had8 to get new tow trucks. At our storage9 yards, the City charges us $2 per parking10 space for storage. If I'm responsible11 enough to go out and retrieve the12 vehicle, why don't I be responsible13 enough to store the vehicle in my place?14
You may be15 responsible enough to store the vehicle16 in your place. The problem is is that17 the vast majority of complaints that18 we've received as a result of getting us19 here has to do with where those cars are20 taken and how they're treated after they21 get there.22 Now, again, listening to you23 and you know what you're talking about24 and you have a legitimate business, but I25 170 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 can tell you for a fact that some of2 these guys are shopping these cars3 around, going to body shops, letting them4 off, not giving them back, charging more5 money than they need to, not accepting6 credit cards. I mean, this is not7 like -- this didn't just happen. This is8 a result of kind of years of this stuff9 where people had been complaining.10 Now, I recognize the desire now11 to cooperate and clean up the industry,12 clean it up, but we wouldn't be here if13 it weren't for all the abuse.14
I have one more15 question. The guys you said that are16 overcharging and doing the things you17 said are negative, are they part of that18 rotation system?19
They sure20 are. That's what has me more concerned,21 because if you look -- and I'm not going22 to go down the list of names of23 companies, but if you go down and look at24 that list, there are people on that list25 171 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 that have been in the news and doing some2 stuff they shouldn't be doing, and I3 don't know how they got on the list. To4 tell you the truth, from a person like5 you who is spending money on their6 business, paying their taxes, employing7 people, I think I might want them out to8 get some more legitimate operators9 involved.10 So, I mean, look, I know this11 is not an easy process and I recognize12 that it's very unsettling because we13 don't know -- it's new and you don't know14 what the future brings and what's15 unknown, but we wouldn't be here if it16 weren't for all the stuff that was going17 on.18
I mean, I will19 acknowledge you have issues. Okay?20 Everything has issues.21
Years ago. So we6 all have issues. So when we have issues,7 we don't X you guys.8
Oh, yes,9 they do. You can X me faster than I can10 X you.11
Well, I mean, you12 know, you guys are up for reelection next13 year, so, you know.14
And things happen,17 but I'm just saying like we're all in18 this ball together, and it will be a lot19 easier to look at the people behind me20 and realize that each one of these guys21 behind me are owners and we're employing22 people.23
And our24 discussions through the course of this25 173 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 day have been to listen to what your2 concerns are, especially relative to3 gross weight. I think Mr. Fenerty4 himself raised the issue of perhaps some5 form of grandfathering for existing. So6 we'll get there. I mean, it's just a7 matter of trying to tinker with it and8 fix it the best -- there's not one piece9 of legislation that I have ever seen in10 the 20 years I've been here that11 everybody is happy. There's not one. So12 we're trying our best to make that that13 way.14
Well, at least that15 will get the majority to go. I mean, I16 agree with that.17 Now, the other thing I wanted18 to ask you about, if you didn't mind me19 asking, if you don't mind taking a look20 at this proposal if you guys pass this21 law. Right now we're paying 125 for our22 license with the City. That price went23 up $25 per year for the last three years.24 It was $75 four years ago. If you could25 174 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 just take a look at the idea the rates2 they're trying to get if you guys pass3 this law, the rates we're going to be4 paying for a tow license, if you could5 just take a look at that for me. You're6 talking about over 100-and-something7 percent increase.8
There's9 actually a letter that we've done to10 explain your questions on this. So we'll11 be --12
Those numbers are17 still there. I mean, we're paying 12518 per truck right now. If you look at the19 first two lines there, that puts me at20 almost $1,000 per truck. From what I21 understand, June of '53 is when you guys22 made this ordinance about towing. They23 made an amendment back in '91 that made24 it from 40 to 50. We've been under the25 175 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 same rate since '53 technically. Fifty2 dollars didn't come in until '91. Forty3 dollars to hook up, $2 a mile starting at4 '53. My father was six. Okay?5 So the cost of living has6 increased tremendously in 50 years. I7 mean, a loaf of bread back then, I can8 only imagine, probably was 20 cent. Why9 haven't we been --10
We11 certainly can look. I mean, we've12 adjusted rates before in Council, and13 certainly we'd be willing to look at14 that.15
But22 normally when we adjust rates, people23 actually come in and ask.24
I mean,2 we've had other elements of the industry,3 whether it's stolen cars or whatever,4 have come in and requested compatibility5 with Parking Authority rates, those kinds6 of things. So we're willing to listen7 and --8
Absolutely.11 Absolutely.12 Sir, could you give -- I mean,13 if you're finished, could you --14
Okay. All21 right. Thank you.22 Any questions?23 (No response.)24
Seeing25 177 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 none, thank you for your testimony.2
Oh, yes,5 sir.6 Mr. D'Angelo. Mr. White has7 been here.8 Is there anyone else testifying9 on this bill?10 (Audience members raising their11 hands.)12
Well, just13 let me -- okay. There's only three14 chairs there. And I would ask you to15 please confine your remarks or testimony16 to the amendments that are before us17 today, because we've had extensive18 hearings on this issue.19 (Witnesses approached witness20 table.)21
My name is Alphonzo24 Lee. I own Heat Wave Towing and25 178 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 Recovery. I own light, medium and2 heavy-duty equipment. I have over3 $750,000 worth of equipment sitting.4 Now, Council is talking about5 light-duty tow trucks that can't carry6 the weight. As Arnold gave you the7 formula for moving vehicles, I also have8 a 14,000 GVW Isuzu, which isn't supposed9 to be moving hardly anything but cars.10 The way that truck is built, Truck11 Enforcement in the City of Philadelphia12 used to call me to move trucks with that13 truck. That truck was built on14 engineering. The length is what picks15 everything up. What Council doesn't16 understand is, when you lift a vehicle17 up, it's just like a pencil. If you put18 an object there and set a pencil on it,19 the further you move it up, the weight20 goes to the back. When you lift up any21 vehicle, you take a 10,000 GVW Hummer, if22 you lift it up high enough and put it23 close enough to the truck, the weight24 transfers to the rear wheels. That25 179 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 10,000 GVW truck will be adequate to tow2 what y'all are talking about. But as far3 as a Hummer, that's pushing it a little.4
Well, I5 believe from our conversations here today6 there is some number between 10,000 and7 16,000 that we could come to some8 agreement with.9
Well, that 10,000 and10 16,000 number is dictated by the U.S.11 government Department of Transportation.12
And the Department of15 Transportation has put all these numbers16 out. What I'm afraid of is, Council is17 going to turn around and put something18 into effect which the citizens of19 Philadelphia is going to have to pay for,20 for the simple reason if you put these21 people out of business because their22 trucks don't turn around and meet this23 criteria and then all of a sudden you're24 going to get somebody that says, Hey, you25 180 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 infringed on my right to make a living,2 now you have litigation. Is the City3 prepared to put that unnecessary money4 out when you have people here in the City5 of Philadelphia that's starving on the6 streets?7
Well, we're8 not looking to get into a lawsuit, but we9 get sued all the time. We get sued every10 day. So it's nothing new for this11 government and any government to get12 sued.13
But does that make it14 right for the citizens of Philadelphia?15
It doesn't16 make it right, but if you listen to what17 I just said was, there's some negotiated18 number we're going to get to between 1019 and 16, and there's also the potential20 for some grandfathering of existing21 equipment, which is what the Parking22 Authority has testified to.23 So we recognize the gross24 weight concerns. They've been a major25 181 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 discussion point here, and they will be2 addressed.3
Okay. Have you ever4 considered these people in the industry?5 You have a lot of people out here that's6 towers. You also have people out here7 that's certified WreckMasters, who8 dictates everything that you're talking9 about right now. I'm a certified10 WreckMaster, Arnold over here is a11 certified WreckMaster.12
By the way,13 who does the certification? What's14 the --15
WreckMaster. If16 you're not WreckMaster or Johnson17 certified --18
No, no.19 I'm just trying to figure out who is20 the -- what is the organization that --21
And where24 are they at?25 182 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1
They are out of North2 Carolina and they turn around and come3 all over -- they go all over the world,4 not just here in the United States. Any5 questions that anybody needs to be asked,6 they call WreckMasters. If they don't7 call WreckMaster, they call TRAA or8 Johnson's. And if you're not certified9 by either one of them, basically you're10 giving hearsay testament.11
Okay. The12 gross weight issue will be addressed.13 Please identify yourself for14 the record.15
My name is David16 Wakowski. I own Select Recovery Service.17 From what this whole18 legislation that I was reading on and19 all, it basically seems like you're going20 to let Parking Authority handle the tow21 trucks that handle the rotation, and in22 the situation of you doing that, you're23 going to put just about every company out24 of business, so there's going to be no25 183 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 one left to give it to but Parking2 Authority. The reason being, you have3 the tow license fees you're raising up to4 a thousand dollars per truck almost, then5 you're requiring us to have workmen's6 comp for every single driver, you're7 requiring us to have health insurance for8 drivers in one of the things we're9 stating. Somebody was reading --10
I have workmen's16 comp, but if a guy works for me for three17 hours a day, I don't have to --18
Workmen's19 comp is a tough issue, but it's the law.20 I don't know what to tell you.21
And then you got22 things on there, all the fines if you23 fail -- I got one question. You're24 letting Parking Authority issue our tow25 184 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 license. So they're on the gross vehicle2 weight of this. If it's not 16,0003 pounds, well, then they don't fit in the4 rotation. Well, guess what?5
If you pass this8 bill, if it's not 16,000 pounds, I can't9 even get a tow license to go tow a car10 with my trucks. I got ten trucks that11 are all 12,500 and lower.12
I just said13 to this gentleman here just 30 seconds14 ago --15
-- that we18 were going to discuss the gross vehicle19 weight.20
But here's the24 situation: Forget the weight. Between25 185 11/16/10 - RULES - BILL 100555, ETC.1 the weight changes you're making, between2 the thousand dollars a truck for a tow3 license and it costs me 11 grand a year4 for a tow license, you're putting5 everybody out of business. You're doing6 it in another way, so at the end of the7 day, it's all going to be left -- there's8 nobody in business to make this money9 even at 175 a car, because if it costs me10 11 grand just for a tow license a year,11 40 cars a year ain't going to pay my tow12 license fee. So I'm done.13 So basically all this stuff14 you're doing, I got one question. You15 want to put Parking Authority in charge16 of tow license, right? As long as17 they've been in our city, they don't have18 tow license. They're excluded from that.19 (Applause.)20