Oh, this is my first time using this. Please allow for errors. SERGEANT-AT-ARMS; Councilman's Rizzo's next.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Talking about technology, we have to get it down pat here too. I'd like to talk about a program and 161 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET many of the people watching and you're real aware that this hearing is being televised today. And I just received a call as a reminder from a constituent watching, asking about the Parent Cooperative Nursery program. As you're all aware at that table, there's some controversy associated with that program, a fee structure that you're talking about establishing. So could you discuss the program, the Parent Cooperative Nursery, the controversies associated with that, and how you plan to resolve the fee structure issue, please.
Yes. We are actually examining the whole Parent Cooperative Nursery issue in the context of early childhood in general in the District.
Okay, yes. The Parent Cooperative Nursery program is a one-year program serving four-year-old children. It is a program where parents volunteer for part of the day. As part of the agreement for their participating, that volunteering is to help to provide parents 162 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET with additional support in terms of instruction for children. The Board of Education is currently reviewing a fee for September, which will be determined by March 12th. The history of it is, last year, the District attempted to require a flat fee for PCN users and later a sliding-fee scale. But, you know, this was not to the parents' liking, so they contacted various elected officials. City Council then sent a letter to the Board of Education on behalf of the parents. And in the fall of this year, we suspended the fee for this year, with the understanding the Board of Ed would review and appropriate a fee for next year. And we have been meeting and planning. There was a meeting with parents recently to get their input regarding a fee, and it is the Board's expectation on March 12th to have some determination.
So on March the 12th, we will know the fee structure as -- what is the -- what's the dialogue going on with the -- with the community, the parents that use the 163 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET program? Are they a part of the -- are they a part of this process?
Okay, yes. The parents were issued a survey and a representative group of parents met last week to give their input regarding what should be the scale, what should be the fee. We have taken the input that we received from then and we're reviewing it in the attempts of having a determination by March 12th.
So I'll take advantage of having the President of the Board here. Could you comment on what you're planning to do here? So I think a lot of folks would like to hear exactly where this program is going and what they can expect to pay.
Yeah, Councilman, I think that where we are as of right now, there has been this process -- maybe I ought to step back. There 164 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET was a board resolution that had a few pieces to it. One piece said that the sliding-fee scale that the School District had tried to impose last year would be suspended until this year, that was part one of the resolution. Another part said that the School District would work with stakeholders in the City to take a broader look at early childhood services generally. And what we've done is, one, we've been looking at options for what a fee scale would look like; and, two, starting a process that is going on in the City generally, looking at early childhood. I think it's a Carnegie grant that's funding the City and the District, and I think United Way is leading the effort and looking at early childhood generally. Specifically for PCN, the guidance that the Board has been giving the staff is that we want -- it is a different approach than last year. We said we would do a sliding scale and -- but things that had been overlooked before that we'd learned from really community and parent input were that we had to take into account the length of the school day. We had really last year keyed 165 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET the scale to the other program called Comprehensive Day Care, which is a program targeted at -- that we have to have a certain income to be eligible for and that -- where everybody -- where parents pay. So one of the things that we asked this year was, take into account the differences in the length of day 'cause PCN is, I believe, a shorter day; take into account, as parents told us, that they do contribute $25 a month for food, snacks, and supplies; and take into account that parents do staff the PCN. Now, that's not to say that parents don't volunteer over at CBC, but in PCN, it's a -- part of the program assumes that parents are going to be there. So value those things and come to us with a reasonable scale. What was reported to me from staff, after meeting with the parents, was that the feedback that they received was that there was some apprehension about a sliding-fee scale instead, if it would require income verification, and that -- and thus, our folks ended up recommending -- are in the process of recommending 'cause the Board doesn't have a recommendation in 166 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET front of it yet, I believe, a flat fee instead of a sliding scale that would avoid having to probe people's income. It would also -- so in a situation like that, I would expect that if the -- if someone's income was below, you know, a certain level, that they probably -- the proposal would probably be that you not charge the way you wouldn't charge in the other programs. But this is all -- right now, this is not the -- my understanding is that the staff and some folks who were having to look at this for us on the outside of the School District were still putting together the final touches in that proposal, and I expect the Board will have it in the next couple of days.
Monday the 12th, 167 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET that there will be a decision on this issue --
And we've also asked in the process to look at similar programs around the City to find out whether -- where -- you know, to make sure that we're not providing -- that we're pricing people out of the market.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Goldsmith, excuse me. Back to the $191 million projected deficit, and I know we've had some initial discussions about clusters, but there is an item that says "Central Service Department," and the item is almost it's almost $78 million. I think that -- I may be wrong -- that clusters are part of that Central Service 168 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET Department number. Can anyone tell me what -- how much the cluster office is, the offices are, as it 5 relates to that $78 million? 6
Okay. Also, just 9 for information, just for clarification sake, on 10 the handout that says -- on , it says, 11 FY 2001 budget expenditures for school-based 12 programs, there is a item at the bottom that says 13 "All Other," $12,900,000. Is there a -- I'm 14 sorry, 12,000, $12,000. I'm sorry, $12 million. 15 What is that? 16
It's a composite of a 17 lot of smaller items, including, to some degree, 18 books, supplies -- things, which in the aggregate 19 total that, but weren't large enough to equal even 20 $1.2 million, which is where we stopped with the 21 breakdown. 22
So each individual item in there represents less than $1.2 million.
Okay. What 169 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET analysis is going on now, or should be going on, relative to the discussion on the elimination potentially of the cluster administration offices and the expenses related to cluster administration in an effort to trim this $191 million hole?
There are, you know, conversations that Dr. Farmbry and I have had, certain analysis that we're doing through the budget process. Again, I think it's establishing some basic concepts, and one of the concepts is to recognize the importance of the classroom in the school and try to get as many people as possible back into the schools and the classroom where we, you know, desperately need the help. So we're looking at a bunch of different variations. It may not necessarily be the elimination of clusters, maybe fewer clusters or certainly fewer people in the clusters. And we're trying to really figure out, you know, what's the best way. Again, I think the key principles are -- is to get people teaching, you know, hands-on teaching and learning, and what the best way to do that and, you know, who's got to be at central 170 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET headquarters, who's got to be at clusters, and who should be at schools. And it's really trying to figure all of that out. And it's also keeping, you know, the feeder pattern concept, which, you know, we think there's some sense to, but whether it's, you know, or fewer, that's what we have to figure out. 9
When do you expect 10 that analysis to be completed? 11
Excuse me, I don't 13 mean to interrupt, but should it not have been 14 part of the last six months of consideration 15 relative to this upcoming budget process? 16
Well, Councilman, I've 17 only been here four months, so -- 18
So, you know, I think 21 obviously, a lot of thought has been given to it, 22 but clearly, it's something that we got to resolve between now and the final budget.
When do you think that that would be done without -- 171 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET
Okay. In your testimony, you indicate in some areas -- and you have to understand our historical context here.
I mean, some of us -- I know I have been and I know other people here longer have been sitting here now for nine years and listening to the issues concerning the administration and the cuts in the administration. And we've gone from the full gamut of, you know, School District cars with drivers, all the way up to administration and administrative issues. But in your testimony, you mentioned issues like travel, overtime, telephone lines. I mean, when you, as an outsider, come in here and raise those issues to me, I get a little bit concerned because in the last administration, I kept hearing terms like "we've sawed the administrative cost to the bone" and "there's absolutely nothing that we could possibly left that cut on an administrative level," and you're talking about issues like travel, overtime, and 172 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET telephone lines. Now, I don't I find a problem with you talking about it. As a matter of fact, I find it refreshing. I just wonder how much accurate information we've been getting over the last number of years every that absolutely every possible administrative issue has been cut, and now we're talking about travel problems and overtime and things of that nature.
Before Phil responds to that, I also want to point out that -- I mean -- that one of the -- you know, I think that underlies our decision to go to a CEO model at this in the history of the School District. I mean, one of -- you know, I suspect that and believe that what you get is the answers that people -- the best answers that people can give based on what they know and what they are able to do, what they know how to do. You bring out manager --
And even after looking at it, looking at, you know, various reports. When you bring somebody from the outside who's got a 173 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET different perspective, whose background is in management and not education, you get the benefit of a different -- of a fresh look and a different perspective. And I'm hoping that -- if we don't do that, then there's no purpose in going to the CEO model.
But understand from my perspective, at least from my perspective, speaking for myself, I thought we did this already, I thought this was all done. And if I took people at their word on the last few budgets, there was nothing left to cut, it was all done already. And that situation does create a bit of skepticism, frankly, at least on my part, and I don't know, you know, if any other members feel the same way, but, I mean, we're talking about cutting travel expenses, I mean -- let me get for the record, the automobile drivers, that that's gone, right? We're not having people driving people around anymore, right?.
Yeah. I mean, we do 174 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET have drivers, yes.
And what do they drive? Are they driving trucks, are they driving cars? What are they driving? I mean, we're not talking about the bad old days of chauffeur-driven City cars? They're all gone, right?
The days of Town cars with chauffeurs for each Town car have been long gone.
One of the things that we did in the last year or so was to, even though we ended up with a new board putting in enormous hours as volunteers and going to and from jobs, we've done it with about half as many drivers, with cars that hadn't been bought probably in five, six years. And to the extent, you know, that there was any purchase in the last five, six or seven years, I think it's been Tauruses, so there's been a real effort at it, recognizing that you still have -- you know, while we're on the Parkway and until we move to someplace else --
That's another issue. 175 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET
Until we move to someplace else, I mean, we are trying to get the most out of the people we have.
Sir, let me say that in my only contract, I explicitly removed any right or, you know --
Well, I was asking -- I was only throwing that out there 'cause I thought that was a thing that was long gone, and now you're telling me that it's just about long gone.
Well, we said it's been reduced a lot certainly from, you know, what it's been, and we've been trying to be driven by practical concerns. I mean, this is a -- you know, this isn't a status or glamor gig.
No, I'm not suggesting it, but I do think people should -- if they have a car should drive it themselves. What is tis issue of travel, overtime, telephone lines? I mean, it seems -- 176 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET
Well, I think that's a function of a number of things. Number one, I can't speak to the past, and I really think my job is to --
'Cause I think this is maybe one of the first times we're getting a business at this district generally.
It's to speak to the present and the future. And I'm pretty cheap, I think my wife and children will tell you, and probably some members of the School District will tell you right now. And, you know, I just believe we need, you know, controls in place so we're able to monitor. Overtime is a function of our business. And, you know, if there's a hurricane, you have overtime, and sometimes overtime is actually cheaper than going out and hiring new employees, but I do think we do have to watch what we're doing and make sure that it doesn't creep into people thinking it's an entitlement. So I'm just 177 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET putting in what I refer to in my testimony as good, old-fashioned "blocking and tackling." The travel and overnight conferences is always a delicate issue. The Board looked at it a couple years ago and tightened up. I looked at it again and thought we should tighten up some more, primarily because we have a financial problem, but more importantly, I think it's important that the conferences that we go to and so forth really be directed to what our educational focus is. I mean, there's a lot of conferences that are good and valuable, but they're not really geared toward what our educational focus is, and I know Dr. Farmbry feels strongly about this, and we want to wrap our arms around it a little bit more. And that's one of the reasons we've done that. The phone lines is, frankly, you know, to me, it's a simple thing. It costs no one a job, it costs no one anything, but why have a phone line when we don't need it.
Frankly, I'm quite glad you're bringing these issues up because over the last four months -- and I'm sorry I put you in there for six, but over the last four months, 178 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET these seem to be things that haven't been looked at in the last eight and a half years, at least not since I've been on Council.
Let me say, I've never -- and I've been in a lot of organizations 'cause I jump around, I guess, a lot, but I've yet to be in an organization where I do not believe that you cannot improve the effectiveness and efficiency. There's no organization around, and I think good organizations are continually looking at how to improve. So even if did everything perfect for the past years, I would still come in and say, 14 what can we do better to improve it? 15
Well, you weren't 16 here for the past nine, and it's been a 17 frustrating experience to have past 18 superintendents, past testimony here, being told 19 -- telling us that we just can't afford to do -- 20 everything's been done that can be done. "The sound you hear is saw against bone" is what one of the -- to paraphrase a prior superintendent. But I'm happy you're here and looking at this in a businesslike way, because when we're being asked to pony up the additional 20, 179 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET $25 million plus the $15 million grant in a General Fund balance that's diminishing quickly, an issue of travel and overtime and telephone lines and automobiles and drivers are still on the table, it concerns me.
Your time's up. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Okay. He was supposed to be next, but I think he walked out of the room.
Looking at things from a business point of view, I just want to express my opinion that I think that the ability of School Board members to travel freely with 180 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET cars, if it's more efficient to have a driver, I favor that. I'm not interested in seeing the travel expenses cut to the bone so that Board members who don't get paid a salary can't even get around to schools. I believe going to conferences is not a frill, not a waste of time. Some may be, but we leave it to the judgment of the CEO. I think it's important that our teachers be up to date, that the administrators be up to date and be skilled. So I'm just suggesting we all want a businesslike approach, we don't like conventions that are held for social reasons and not for business reasons, but if they're held for business reasons, I hope the School Board encourages attendance at them. And with respect to getting around, I believe there ought to be cars available. There are to Councilmembers because we need them in our work. We hope they're not being used for other purposes, but we trust that the CEO will adopt whatever policies are necessary. But I don't see any advantage, and I see a lot of harm, if circumstances are set up so 181 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET that people are not able to do their job effectively. I hope despite the questions that will come in a moment or two, that the Board members are able to do what they conceive as their work effectively. But I would like to -- I'm just stating my opinion because there was another opinion and --
Councilman Cohen, there's a point of information. Councilman Kenney?
I'm sorry. I would like to make a request based on that comment as a point of information -- I need a microphone. Considering that comment, Councilman, I would respectfully request that the Chair be provided with the last two years worth of travel information relative to conferences or any type of locations where people have had to travel on the School District budget, what the purpose of it is, how many people went, how much it cost, and what was accomplished. And I appreciate Councilman Cohen yielding. Thank you. 182 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET
Fine. I was concerned earlier by questions that indicated that parental involvement was not considered in evaluating a school's performance. I remember vividly the tremendous work done by Marcus Foster in encouraging parental involvement at Simon Gratz High School, who was here in Philadelphia before he made the mistake of going out to the West Coast, with tragic consequences later. But he just did a tremendous job in rebuilding the image of Simon Gratz High School and rebuilding the substance of it so that it became a very valued school, maybe near the top in the City, as a result of his determination of getting parents involved in the schools. He used to go out with teachers sometimes, visiting the homes of people, to get parents involved. It seems to me that parental involvement is extraordinarily important if we're to raise the level of performance in the schools, and I wonder, is there any legal reason why that 183 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET cannot be considered in the performance of schools?
Well, I think Dr. Farmbry said earlier, and I'll ask her to clarify it 'cause I'm not sure I know that it's a factor in the evaluation of principals. Is that right?
Yes, it's a factor in the evaluation of principals, and principals do receive merit pay, so to speak, based on an evaluation. And parental community engagement is one component; however, parental involvement is not a part of school's overall performance index, which is the ultimate measure of success for a school, because what goes into that are test scores, staff attendance, student attendance, and persistence to graduation.
Well, why would it not also be considered as a part of the evaluation of the school itself? Why is it limited to an evaluation of the principal?
I think initially, it was just a the question of, you know, how many measures are you going to put on the scale, and I think the underlying assumption is that, normally, 184 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET if there's increased parent participation, you do see other measures improve accordingly, such as student attendance, such as test scores. So I think the assumption was that, you know, if you have high scores in some areas, then the assumption could be that you have active parental engagement. And that's why we really are pushing citywide for all schools to have a school council, which is the newest vein for parental engage. You know, there's always been the home and school associations, but school councils present a different level of engagement 'cause it is more around school governance and how the school's going to operate and what the discipline procedures will be and so forth.
I think the great thing that attracts most people to charter schools and often to private schools is the school official encouragement of parental involvement, and I'm not going to belabor longer, but it seems to me that it ought to be a factor in considering the whole school's performance. I'm not objecting to it being 185 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET considered with respect to the principal, but I think in addition, it ought to be a factor, 'cause I think maybe it's one of the most important factors that could be involved in a potential turnaround to the school system in the direction we all want it to go in Philadelphia. Tell me -- this is probably directed to the chairman of the board -- what has been the effect of the amendment which changed the nature of the School Board? How has it affected the School Board's operation? How do you see your functioning before and after? Is there any change, is there any impact? And if so, what is it?
Well, I think that -- I mean, there -- there is probably an impact in a couple of different levels. For starters, I mean, it is clear from the very nature of the charter change and the new relationship that this is, you know -- well, let me back up. Under the previous -- before the Charter change, as Councilman Cohen knows, the board members served staggered terms that were six years long, so that at any given time, you had the 186 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET appointee of multiple mayors as well as -- and represented on the Board as well as what other interests were being balanced by the mayor at the point that the Mayor appointed any one individual. So you had -- you know, we are not an elected body, and we were appointed by sometimes mayors that were long-gone. And with the Charter change, the accountability, if you will, the political accountability to the electorate ends up with the Mayor and all of the Board members serving at the pleasure of the Mayor. And so I think to that extent, the Board does feel that -- that -- a responsibility to act as a team, to act cohesively. The Mayor had an opportunity to pick a team that he thought would do that, you know, that would bring a range of interests but who would all stay on the same team trying to get to the same place. And I do think that that's happened. This board -- I mean, you know, we're nine for nine in terms of the amount of work and the dedication of each of the Board members. We've been -- this -- just in the last -- I -- I guess this board was -- is today the 6th? 187 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET
I think this board was appointed a year ago -- was sworn in a year ago today, sworn in on the 3rd. And to think what has happened in that year, and I think a lot of that wouldn't have happened as effectively if we weren't a cohesive group that solved -- that, by definition, was constructed as a team, as opposed to a representation of factions, and I mean factions in a political science sense, you know, not in any other. So I think it's been -- I think it's -- it's enabled us in this extraordinary year to perhaps get a lot more done than we could have if we -- if we were under a more factionalized body. In the long term, you know in the long term, I think, you know, the -- you know, we have to continue to make sure that there is a balance between politics and the legitimate role of the Board, and this board is very appreciative that we've been allowed to function as a school board and to have the -- while getting the political support necessary from outside, from this body, from the Mayor's Office and other places, to enable us to serve in our roles. 188 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET
Let me put it a little more directly. Before the Board -- before the change, the Board was seen as an independent board, responsible largely to the community. The community felt it was talking to a board that had power to act one way or the other on requests, or to modify them. Now, is there any change in the sense that the Board's powers are limited to those powers granted to it by the Mayor, a limitation which did not exist before?
The Board's powers are the same. I think what's difference is that -- you know, as a non-elected body, I don't think we were accountable to the community. We were accountable to -- you know, except what I call "the Thriftway factor" or "the Acme factor," where you're, you know -- and that's still true. When you go to the supermarket and you deal with your peers, there's always -- you always get a lot of feedback. But under the previous system, you weren't accountable to anybody. You could -- and in fact, I would say that what the public, you know, sometimes -- you know, that the public now 189 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET at least knows that there is one person that's taken responsibility for the School Board and its members. And at any given time, I think it would have been hard to calculate how many different factions were being represented on the Board. Now there's one, with a range of views and an opportunity to focus on education while the politics is done outside the District.
Why would it not be more effective, say, for a community group that had questions about the education system in Philadelphia, why wouldn't it be more appropriate for them to talk to the person who really makes the decisions rather than to talk to a body which is subordinate and which has to transmit a message, message that can be most effectively transmitted by the people, you know, who are sending the message?
Well, I think because people continue appreciate that the Board is functioning as the School Board. It's not trying to be anything else and not being asked to be anything less or be anything more, so that the, 190 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET you know, educational policy and the regular oversight of the District is over at the Board. Now, it's true that on the broad issues such as funding, such as general direction, that the Mayor has a lot more direct power than the Mayor had before, but I would say that the incumbent mayor has always had at least that level of influence, if not that direct power, which the Charter gave to this mayor.
But I wonder about the budget, for example. Before we in City Council said we really have no power to do anything about a budget, the Mayor has no power, the School Board presents a budget based upon presumably its best adjustment, but we don't have the power, neither the Mayor, nor the Council. Now the budget is presented to us, it's in effect the Mayor's budget, because I assume -- tell me if I'm right or wrong -- that before the School Board adopted its budget, there had to have been approval by the Mayor.
Well, this is the first year where -- you know, our budgeted process goes through May 31st, and generally on educational 191 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET issues -- educational discussions in general, the Board is making policy. We are in an extraordinary time financially, I mean, just to pick on the budget situation specifically, where unless at the end of the day, the City Council, the Mayor, the General Assembly, the Governor, and the School District are on the same page, you know, we're not going to be able to get beyond this year in any way. So I think it's more that, you know, part of what you're alluding to is really also a function of where we are in the School District's history. I mean, at this fiscal moment of fiscal crisis where, I think, you know, we're all, including City Council, in this, because the bottom line is that the basic needs of the students being served by the District exceed what we're capable of providing with the revenue sources that we have right now.
These questions that I've raised will continue to concern me. I'm not trying to develop them beyond this, but these are questions which I think many people throughout our communities are considering and debating, and at 192 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET some point, we would like to know whether or not the Board is seen as the same strong advocate for education as it had been in the past and whether communities see it in that light. I'd like to know, for example, that at the end of about another year or so, have community groups come as frequently as they have before? have they come to the Board looking for assistance? And how have they felt when they left; have they felt that the Board has been as responsive as in the past? In the past, many groups felt the Board was responsive even if it rejected the proposals because the Board listened, there was a freedom of discussion. So this is going to be a continuing interest.
I think one early example or test of that, and Councilwoman Blackwell could probably talk to it more, was the enormous number of community groups that were involved in the discussion around the Penn Assisted School. We literally had meetings in the School District, and Councilwoman Miller, I know, is aware of this too, where probably 400 people attended -- I don't know 193 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET if that's an exaggeration, but hundreds of people in the School Board room, all with a different opinion. And we -- and I think what people are finding is that we do listen, that we are being respectful, and that we're all trying to -- you know, we're not pretending to have all of the answers or try to preach to people. We're trying to listen and learn as we go along.
Do you see yourself as a board as developing educational policy?
Yes, and in trying to -- and a partner with the City and the State around how to deal with the bigger structural problems, which we've -- you know, and some people may think that we've been going along with our head in the sand about the big picture financially, and --
Well, I think -- aren't there two problems? Isn't there a problem of educational policy and then separately a question of fiscal policy?
And isn't it the 194 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET responsibility of the Board, without consideration of fiscal policy, first to discuss educational policy and then try to work with groups to develop an educational policy that is sound, and seek to find ways to support that fiscally?
I think that's right. I mean, we have to set out where we think we can responsibly go and then engage in a discussion about how to get there. If all we do is talk about where we want to go, whether you're a school district or a health system, that can lead you down a very tough road, because the reality is, at the end of the day, you have to be able to implement your education policy.
Well, there might be some argument that could be made on that because the School Board can get so immersed in the fiscal problems that it does what I see the School Board doing today, and that is abdicating in the field of educational policy and being concerned almost solely with fiscal policy. For example, for example, it would seem to me that everybody would be in general agreement 195 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET that the heavy drain of people leaving the City for -- the major reason for that beyond all other reasons is that basically, the middle class, the working families have decided, because they're younger, you know, their children are growing up, they're looking for a school system that they feel is preparing their children for the future maybe somewhat better than the kind of preparation they themselves got. We've talked about that and we all agree, but all we do is fritter around the edges, always worrying about, Well, this costs too much and we can't do it and maybe it's good to cut class size, but we can't afford to, to fight for all-day kindergarten for all of our youngsters, to fight for pre-kindergarten training. All has come very slowly. And we keep complaining about people leaving the City. Sure there are issues of wage tax, there are issues of crime, there are other issues, but the fundamental overriding issue is that if we had a school system -- and I think everybody would agree that if we had a school system that parents fought to get their kids into, that the population drain would be the problem in 196 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET the suburbs because people would flock to our schools. When we think that for civic pride we need a stadium, a question of a billion and a half is nothing. But when we talk about the schools, we pinch pennies every inch of the way. And I don't see the Board doing what I think an educational board would do, and that is the lead the fight for what's really needed for the school system, and then leaving -- sure, the Board will play a role in the fiscal policy too, but leading the charge. I think, for example, we ought to have the issuance of a bond (indiscernible) to the bonds that we're talking about for the stadium at the same cost for the school system. Think of what told be if we had $500 million more for your current operating budget, $500 million more just in the way of capital improvements, and maybe an extra $300 million -- I'm trying to equate the cost of the stadiums and the school system -- and 300 million for contingency funds if you needed more for operating or more for capital. And why -- it seems to me the only on 197 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET way we'll ever get that commitment is if the School Board as an educational policy board sounds the clarion call, saying, We've got to have smaller class sizes, we've got to have other things, like there's some schools that have almost no ability for the youngsters to play sports. At the Jenks School up in -- I guess it's in Chestnut Hill, they have cement floors, so it's very difficult for them to even play basketball there. They have no specific reasons why anyone would want to send a child to school there. Why doesn't your board develop policies that get people excited about the notion of what the schools can be? And that's the reason I raise all of these questions, 'cause I think you have a great opportunity.
And I'd say stop worrying so much about the money and include the President of the United States because the federal commitment, as I noticed in your preparation, I think, is almost less than a percent contribution to the Philadelphia school system. 198 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET
Well, I'd like -- I mean, I believe that our educators need to be given the opportunity and the support to do their jobs to educate our kids. I think that our deficit isn't one of good ideas or good educational policies. Our problem is that you need to be able to channel enough resources so that that can get done. And as a parent in the Philadelphia public schools, I do care about whether school opens and whether the teacher is able to provide the services. I do care more than just about the ideological, and I do care about what actually ends up happening and how we're able to implement. And it would be, you know, at least my view of the Board, and it is that -- you know, part of what we're fighting for is to provide the educators the support and cover to let them do their jobs and let the rest of us do the battle to provide the support and the resources that they need to do that job. But I think that, you know, one -- we -- we know and we've certainly had repeated lessons that to have the plan and the right idea is not enough if you can't get it implemented, if 199 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET you can't make it real in the classroom.
But there's only one thing, it seems to me, a board of education can do in that situation, and that is to make the goals very clear to the public. Beyond that, I think the City Council has a major responsibility. I think the Mayor, the Governor, you know, and the President -- the President talks and preaches about education, yet the federal contribution in terms of dollars is minuscule. Now, nobody wants the federal government to take over control of the school system, but they don't have to take over control because they give the money, but they ought to be giving much more, maybe a thousand times more than they do give. They support other things at the state level and the city level. So I think the clarion call has to come from the School Board. And your policy work, I think, is much more important that your fiscal work. The fiscal work is the responsibility in Philadelphia, I believe, of the Mayor and the City Council. At the State level, it's obviously the General Assembly and the Governor. At the federal level, it's the President and the Congress. 200 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET But if you ignite the flames which indicate what has to be done so that Philadelphia can kind of be really revived as a place that parents want to live in so their kids can get to the schools in Philadelphia, I think you will have done a marvelous job, and I think you're going to create the kind of support base that will get us the funds. And so, I raise that issue with you. I hope you think about it because I think that's the role of a school board, to tell us why a public school system is not only necessary so that all kids get educated, but why it can't provide a superb education, because I believe in my own personal experience, all four of my children, my wife, myself, we all went through the public school system and I don't think I've done too badly. And so that's what I'm pleading with you to do, because I think you can get Philadelphia excited, but you can't get it excited if you're going to be worrying, as you have been so much, on the fiscal point. That is not your main responsibility; that's ours.
Councilman 201 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET thank you.
Councilman, just -- just as a matter of accuracy, just so our documents are understood, the federal contribution that you see that shows less than 1 percent is for operating funds; in fact, most of the federal contributions, not to say whether they're adequate or not but just so we understand for the record, that most of the federal funds are coming in through the categorical amount, and I think that's about 85 percent of our categorical funds, or $217 million, so I don't want to -- you know, I want to make sure that we're talking --
That's correct. (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)
I believe the federal government has the responsibility, and what the President is talking about is the whole 202 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET future of education for those who don't -- particularly for those who don't fall into the categorical areas.
And that's the reason I feel -- and I think the City ought to take advantage of what he did the other night, having the Mayor of the City sitting next to the First Lady. That ought to be more than just a symbolical touch. He was attempting to indicate that he understands the problems of the cities and he thinks that --
Councilman Cohen, you're really way beyond your time. Would you please --
But this was my first, and maybe only, opportunity to discuss the --
You'll have 203 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET to wait for the second go-around, so can -- (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)
. . . and I want some hundreds of millions of dollars to come from the federal government for this purpose.
All right. Councilman, we'll recognize you on the next go-around. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco, who has not been given the opportunity to be recognized.
Thank you very much. I missed my turn this morning, and I'll try not to ask any questions that have been asked. And if they have been asked, just let me know and I'll read the record. But I want to go back to the -- where is the young lady that was sitting here?
I want to go back to her testimony on the financial update. (Miss Chatzkel returns to witness 204 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET table.)
On and 9, you talk about the per-pupil basic educational subsidy formula. On , could you explain those charts to me? I mean, what do they mean? Particularly the change in State in total-revenue- per-student charge. Does that mean that the State has increased the support for these other towns and not necessarily for Philadelphia? And if so, what was that based on?
Okay, the chart on the bottom of speaks to the State revenue per student.
And what it does show, and I think you read it correctly, is that over this five-year span that's being measured, from 1993 to 1998, the revenues per student grew for Philadelphia 12.36 percent. And yes, it's true that some are some of these other districts, the revenues per student over that same period grew more quickly.
Was that because of the -- what does revenue -- define "revenue." 205 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET
Would this be revenue from the State or local revenue or what?
This bottom chart speaks to -- and on the right-hand side, which is what we're looking at, it speaks to revenue from the State.
So what will cause the Chester Upland revenue to be high -- as high as it is compared to Philadelphia?
I don't know the composition of Chester Upland revenues. I know we get 60 percent of our revenues from the State. And for Chester Upland, I would imagine that that growth is due largely to the basic -- the ESBE formula that we talked about. That's a key driver of State revenues, if you're looking on the right-hand side of that chart.
Right. I don't know anything about that, so I don't know what you're talking about.
Yeah, I mean, some of the 206 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET factors in the formula. So, for example, you know, because our population, our student population, had been increasing than our revenues per student, you know, relatively have been declining. In other cases, again, because of the formula change, it hadn't been so sensitive to the enrollment. So in some ways, those districts that declined in enrollment might have actually done better on the revenues per student. The other thing is, there are whole bunch of factors within the formula that just haven't worked to our favor. I think some of the local effort in the increase was there, you know, being one of those factors as well.
There are lots of components to State revenues. One of the factors that is fairly sensitive is when poverty increases. Again, I don't know Chester Upland, but my guess is, over that five-year period, their poverty increased. There are other kinds of State revenues. There are revenues for special education and debt service. Any of those could have driven the revenues to go up as well. 207 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET This is all State revenues.
Okay. On , the last bullet point. Subsequent to the adoption of the Fiscal Year 2001 budget, an ordinance was introduced in City Council to provide an additional $25 million grant. Is that a one-time grant? Or do we give it to you every year?
We've assumed for next year -- and this last page in project deficit assumes a grant of $15 million from the City.
Councilwoman, that 19 million makes reference to, as it says, after the 20 adoption of the budget. That was the 25 million 21 that grew out of the settling of the PFT contract, 22 and those ordinances, as it says, had been 23 introduced, but there has not yet been a public 24 hearing on those, and we're hoping that can follow 25 soon after this process. 208 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET
And if we don't do -- if we don't grant the amount, what does that do to you? That increases your deficit?
Well, our cash flows for this year are based on having that million in 7 addition to the previously committed by the 8 Administration 20 million, which has been budgeted 9 in the School District's budget. So both of 10 those, the 20 plus the 25. 11
So you're looking 12 for $45 million from the City. 13
Okay. On on the charter schools -- this may have been asked 17 -- what does the State contribute in terms of the 18 cost to the charter schools? Do they give any 19 additional money for charter schools? 20
There is very little. 21 There is about $800,000. That's a transition 22 fund, and that's to support school districts as 23 they take in non-public students into the charter 24 schools. 25 But, again, for that portion of our 209 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET population, our charter school population that comes from non-public schools, we spend about 4 million, we make about 25 million in payments. 5 And the offset in total, if we added everything, 6 is less than a million dollars. 7
Mm-hmm. So at 8 some point, though, and that's just the beginning 9 of the charter school program, where you can 10 identify that they are non-public school students, 11 but at some point, you won't be able to identify 12 those students, right? Because the transfer out 13 from other schools will level off, and then you 14 will start getting 1st-, 2nd- or 3rd-graders going 15 right into charter schools, where they might have 16 gone to another private school or a parochial 17 school. 18
The transitional funding 19 -- there's a pot available from the State. The 20 total statewide is a million dollars, and the 21 portion that the City of Philadelphia gets is 22 based on a presumption of the percentage of 23 non-public students that we would get in in that 24 year. 25
Okay, and I 210 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET understand that. What I'm trying to say -- I'm not making myself clear -- is because this is a new program, the charter school program is new, so there are a certain number of students who are now trying to get into the charter schools.
And at some point in time -- they're like maybe 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th 6th grade, going up. Now, in about three or four years, the transfer will stop because those young people will just come immediately into the charter school program without having to go to a parochial or private school and then transfer, and that transfer will level off.
So what does that do to you? Do you still get that money?
Yeah, I believe, Councilwoman, the transitional funding is only applicable to the students in their first year of charter school enrollment, those students who have not been previously in the host district's school system. So regardless of what age, you know, they would enter, that would be the case. 211 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET But because that is a fixed pot of money, what Rhonda is saying is that -- and Philadelphia's share is, I think, something right now like about $600,000 or something.
It's 80 percent of the total. Even that makes it a fixed amount. So even, you know, if the number of students, for example, coming into charter schools from outside our system were to increase, the amount per student, again, that would be available for those students would be declining. And that money does need to be appropriated each year by the State legislature, and it was included in the Governor's budget but without an increase this year, so at that same statewide funding level.
I know you all are trying to maintain a very nice placid and working relationship with the State, and I think that's important, but at what point do you make the challenge that the drain on your budget is, I mean, is to have a real impact on the School Board budget. I mean, there's a point that the State has to, if they want these charter schools, to 212 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET provide more money to the charter schools.
I just think on the charter schools in particular, I mean, we have -- we are on record now with -- Philadelphia along with many other districts around the State are on record about a number of changes that we would expect to see in the charter school law; certainly, the finances being, you know, high on that list, but not the only changes. There are issues of accountability, you know, issues of governance regarding charter schools that we think that the law really needs to be improved along those lines. But the finances -- and this is, again, one of those areas of growing concern that Councilwoman Miller asked about. School districts across the Commonwealth, we are obviously the largest, we have two-thirds of the charter school population in the State, but everyone who's hosting charter schools is telling the same story, about the impact that it's having on both their operations as well as on their bank accounts.
What -- and I'm sure this has been asked. You mentioned the issue of accountability. Are the charter schools held 213 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET to the same standards in terms of testing and other requirements of the School District the same as public schools? I mean, they are public schools, but are the standards the same? Does it have the same testing, I mean? And who monitors them? I mean, is that your role to do that? Just what happens?
Let me try to answer that but also start off by stepping back a step because I think it's important -- we often talk about, you know, some of the flaws in the way that charter schools are funded and that the way -- and the way we are funded and our ability, and we often talk about the financial impact because we think there's a flaw in how the funding mechanism works for charters. I think that shouldn't distract from why, you know, why Philadelphia's probably, you know, one of the top two or three districts in the country, if not number one, either in terms of the number of charters or in total enrollment. I think we're pretty high up there. And one of the reasons is that we see it as an educational program. You know, there are several educational 214 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET programs that we're pursuing that in the sense, if it were just a financial decision, you wouldn't do, but we think that charters are affording the City an opportunity to try different things and to, in some cases, do something -- try some things that we would like to try faster, in some cases hopefully avoid making some of the same mistakes that we make in the district. So I think there's educational value there, and we have to remember that they are children from the City of Philadelphia in these schools and to the extent that, you know, and they're increasing the enrollment of public schools in Philadelphia, and what we should be focusing on is how do we support public education in Philadelphia, you know, and make sure that there enough resources to provide for all of them. The charter schools in terms of what rules do they have to follow, they're required to follow law, and there's -- you know, they're subject to the school code, but there are some exceptions made for charter schools. They also have to abide by the terms of the charter which they are granted, which is like a contract. 215 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET And it's my understanding, and someone may be able to correct me, that a -- that that charter has some specifications in it. Some of them duplicate the intent of the State law in terms of having -- having a certain level of certified teachers and things like that. But also, they agree to take the Stanford Achievement Test, which is the same tests we give, just so we have some comparison. The State requires that they take the PSSA in their charters. We also, through the performance index, also look at things like student and staff attendance and how much -- and measure progress. We don't try to judge it according -- you know, just as we've done with School District schools and not comparing one school to another, we like to compare schools to themselves in terms of terms of how much progress they make. So we've -- but on a day-to-day basis, their oversight from their own board of trustees, which, under State law, sit in the place of the Board of Education. It's like a board of education for each school. Each school is like another -- is an LEA. And the type of oversight 216 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET that we have for the School District schools, there's a board of trustees that are public officials, just like we are, that have responsibility for that particular school, and have responsibilities, presumably, for going beyond whatever it is you're required to do in setting policy for the performance of staff and for the performance of students.
Have there been any studies done on the performance by students in the public schools as opposed to the public charter schools?
I mean, I think it's too early to reach any big conclusions. I mean, we are still -- this is still -- the charter school movement is, you know, is maybe -- I would say it's a baby but maybe moving into adolescence here. So it's still -- you know, we've got over -- we've got many -- we've got more than 100 years, probably closer to 200 of School District history and we've got 4 of charter school history. The -- I guess we have PSSA data, State test data for those grades that are tested, and we have SAT-9 data for those grades that are tested. 217 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET And we have a little more -- we have more detail for the first four charters, which were the ones that just came up for renewal. The -- you know, the overall -- if I recall the data correctly, you know, some schools are doing -- I mean, it's what you expect: some schools are doing better, some schools are doing worst, and most are probably doing around the same, but that's very preliminary. Among the ones we have the most years experience with are the four that just came up for renewal, and three of those four made progress on their student scores, and two of 'em did better, you know, did better than expected, better than their targets on student scores. When we looked at renewals, we also -- we not only compared charter school scores to citywide, but we also looked at the schools from which students were coming, and we kind of did a weighted average, you know, so that -- so you would not only compare it to the City but compared to the schools those students would have otherwise attended. And I think, you know, generally, we 218 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET judge from that first cohort. It's not a bad story. I mean, we've got two that did very well, one that made progress, and a forth one we're looking at the data. It seems that they've -- that they didn't go in the right direction, but we're having a hearing to review, you know, the data more carefully with -- in the end to consider whether that charter gets renewed or not.
I have one final question, then I'm done. To Miss Chatzkel, on the last page of the financial update, you have a $10.5 million reduction in your retirement contribution. Does that -- does that leave your retirement fund unfunded?
We participate in the public school employees retirement system, which is statewide, and the State sets the rates. The market, maybe up until recently, had done very, very well, which is why there's a reduction in rate.
Thank you, Councilwoman. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. Councilwoman Marian Tasco spoke in detail to the charter school phenomena, which is, based on my limited experience, is one reason why there has been an explosion in mandated expenditures by the School District, and though I sit here without the benefit of seasoned experience like my colleagues Councilman Kenney and Councilman Cohen, one thing I am mindful of is that with your chart on , you mention five categories, and three of the five of these are mandated, which means they were put on the plate of the School District with no dollars to then help make full-day kindergarten real, meaning there was additional money that had to be spent by the School District. And then, let me see, there were an additional 15,000 students eight, nine years ago. Those were not line items, if you will, that the School District had to deal with, 220 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET and consequently, reality was very, very different. So I just need you to know that I'm mindful of that. And then to get to the more practical matter, which is to what is actually happening now, again, I want to talk about the safety and security notion. Enlighten me on the summit that is coming up, and where do School District police security activities intersect with the Philadelphia Police Department?
What I'm calling "the Safe School Collaborative" is going to be a series of at least three meetings. The first meeting is going to be what I call "School District Family."
And that means representatives of the PFT, representatives of the principals union, our own administrators, representatives of the Home and School Council, representatives of our board, and also some students representatives that sit on our board. 221 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET And the reason for keeping the first one, which is what I call "School District Family," is because I think that if we're going to really work at this problem, we've got to work at it together and be talking together about what the issues are and what's our common agenda. My goal, my dream, frankly, is that we have a common agenda that we work at. And it's not something that any one of us can do alone. I think we've got to do it together. So it's to sort of get us all in a room, come up with that common agenda, get the levels of trust up, understand what each other's perspective is, and go from there. At that meeting, I also hope to have the members of that meeting agree on and decide who we want to hear from other agencies and organizations. If it's just me sort of saying, This is who I think we should hear from, I think it's going to carry a lot less water than if we all sort of have input as to who we want to hear from. So out of that, I hope that we get a common agenda, we get some prioritizations on some of the issues that we want to work on, and also 222 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET hear from other organizations and agencies and groups that we want to find out what they're doing that works and enlist their support. So that's sort of the overall framework of those series of meetings, which are coming up. In terms of your question of how we work with the police, we have a very close relationship with the City of Philadelphia's Police Department. I meet -- have met with Commissioner Timoney several times. There are six district commanders under the supervision of Chief Inspector Frank Pryor. My staff and myself meet with them, we just had a meeting last week. We try to get a sense of what's going on out there, what the hot spots are, what do they see, what are they hearing, what do we hear, what are the things that we can be doing together. And that type of dialogue is constantly happening. So I think it's a good relationship. Obviously, we're responsible for what goes on in the schools. We call upon the police when there's something of a criminal nature, where we need their assistance, and I think it's overall, you know, it's a good relationship. 223 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET
The NTAs that are in the schools report to the principals.
Yes. Thank you. Could you go back to what Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown was discussing. If I can recollect, the Mayor appointed Commissioner Timoney as the Secretary of Public Safety to oversee, I believe, the School District security and also -- also, I believe, SEPTA. What you just described didn't sound like someone that was overseeing the security at the School District. A few meetings with the Commissioner pointing out hot spots doesn't sound 224 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET like someone who has a title of Secretary of Public Safety, with the oversight of the School District.
He has assigned Chief Inspector Pryor and six district commanders to work, you know, closely, you know, with the School District, and that we do on a regular basis, and they work with our security folks. Our people go down to the -- sit in on the --
But his title now is Director -- or Secretary of Public Safety. What does that mean to you?
It means to me that he's got overall responsibility in the City, and I don't want to speak to his full job responsibilities, 'cause I frankly don't know, but the day-to-day management of our security force is a School District matter until that is changed. But a lot of the activities that go on go on outside the School District, they go on in the neighborhoods and so forth, and that's where 225 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET he has responsibility and works closely with us.
Does your Security Director report to Commissioner Timoney?
Well, then I'm really confused on why the Mayor appointed Police Commissioner Timoney as Secretary of Public Safety over the School District and --
There are questions that involve fiduciary responsibilities that the Board has that cannot transfer out to Timoney because of charter situations. So the -- I think the relationship between even SEPTA, the School Board, and the Police Department have to be performed in an informal basis because there are certain Charter considerations that cannot overlooked. Thank you.
I'll continue with my questioning, please, Madam President. 226 3/6/01 - SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET Boy. Thank you, Councilman Ortiz. (Laughter.)