I don't know if there have been any professional services 231 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 contracts during... You've been... Is it, what? Three weeks or a month now?
Have any professional services contracts come through your shop in the past months?
My name is Candice Hitchcock. I'm the Deputy Director of the Minority Business Enterprise Council. In answer to your question, Councilman, yes, the departments refer projects to us for ranges to be assigned.
What kinds of contracts have come through your office in the past month?
We've had some from 232 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 CPO and the Airport. Do you want the type?
I'll give you credit for this: You've been prepped well. Only answer the question that's asked. If I ask you what time -- If I ask you did you know what time it was, you'd say yes. You wouldn't tell me what time it was. I understand. So, we can... You know, it's fine.
And they cover most of the departments right now, except the Airport, Water and Streets. The Airport has been sending us design contracts for employee parking lot. And they have something else which I don't quite remember at this time. And we assign ranges to that. And then we've also had 233 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 some proposals come in during the month of May, yes.
Let me ask a question, just literally in terms of physical proximity, other than the fact that you're all sitting up there next to each other right now. Where are your offices in relationship to each other, Procurement and MBEC?
Okay. And from a procedural standpoint, technically the MBEC is actually a part of the Finance Department.
From your... And I understand it's only been a 234 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 relatively short period of time, but I know you've also been reading a fair amount of material in that time. I know there's a great history to this which certainly predates my time. But from your now professional experience, does it make any sense to you that the Minority Business Enterprise Council would be technically completely separate from the Procurement Department?
Well, Councilman, initially when I started reading about MBEC, I thought that it was actually in Commerce and not in Finance. That was my first surprise. I tried to piece together why exactly that decision was made, and I don't know. As far as a relationship with Procurement, again, it's hard to find an answer when you weren't there doing that. And you can piece together a lot of things in your mind, but I think it would be sort of imprudent for me to say why I thought that was. 235 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 Now, as far as do I think that it's still a good idea, I think we work closely together. And I think that the system works. And there's a suggestion that we merge our departments. I -- I don't have a position on that.
Okay. I'm not making a suggestion or even a recommendation, at the moment. I'm just trying to understand from just a pure management aspect and an operational standpoint, it would just seem to me that functionally there would be a direct line between the two.
And we do have a lot of contact with Procurement on a daily basis, and we work closely together, closer than any other department. So, to that extent that we're all in finance, I think that answers part of your question. To the extent that why are we just one unit, I don't have an answer for that.
Okay. How is 236 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 your reorganization going?
Well, it's going well. I have made a decision to outsource certification, and I'm working on an RFP for that, reason being is that I don't think that MBEC in my mind should be in the certification business. I have talked to a lot of folks about that internally and externally. And I think that we would serve our constituents well by moving towards more constituent services: Enforcement, monitoring, marketing and sales, and doing thinks like that. So, we're working on moving our internal functions out by that. We would still be responsible for it, but the actual process which in -- which internally and externally, we've heard, just takes too much time. And we don't have enough staff to take care of that. I think it would be a better use of our resources and it would serve our minority businesses.
Well, who would 237 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 conduct the certification? And are you talking about an entity outside of the government?
That's correct. MBEC in Philadelphia -- This is the only place, and this is from what I've been told by the Finance Director, it's the only place in the country that actually has an MBEC program doing certification. All other places don't do that. And that was a question when I first came to the job. People asked me about this. And although there are some back and forth, there seemed to be a great consensus, including through our consultant that we hired, that certification should not be done internally.
I'm writing an RFP. We're going to put bids out for that, so I 238 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 can't identify those people as of yet. We certainly have had some interest from some organizations who do certifications.
Well, I understand that. I mean, who conducts this quote unquote service in other major cities in the country?
I don't have that information for you, but I would be glad to get it to you.
Why wouldn't -- I mean, why wouldn't this be a role for the government?
In my opinion, based on the resources -- and this is just my opinion. Based on the resources that we have, I think we would be better served by not doing that.
Well, that's a resource issue. I'm talking about a policy issue.
I mean, the 239 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 government --
Well, I mean, I'm just trying to think this through. I mean, you know, look; I'm open to a variety of ideas. But the government is giving a certain certification to a business. Well, why don't -- Why don't we... Based on the earlier conversation, what is a certification? What does it mean? I mean, you know, I'm not... probably not smart enough to get in business and go through the process, so I don't really much have to worry about it. But I mean, what do you have when you are quote unquote certified?
The certification process allows us to evaluate a firm as to it's bona fideness, to ensure that it is, in fact, owned and controlled by a minority, woman or a disabled businesses under the protected classes that the 240 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 Federal Government has already established.
How do you determine that they are bona fide, in the business, independent, and qualified to do whatever it is that they say they do?
We do an application process, and they supply us with an amount of documentation that supports the fact that they, in fact, only control the company; and that they, in fact, have wherewithal. We do not verify that they do it good or bad, but that they have the wherewithal to provide the goods or services that they purport.
Well, all right. We had the Airport Director up a second ago. If I came over to your office, filled out my application, got some money from wherever I got it from, and said that I am now in the men's shoe business and said I'd 241 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 like to get certified, how would you determine whether I was bona fide in that business?
You'd have to provide us with some information as to your training and background, also that you have... the word is an in to being able to provide shoes, and have some experience and training in that area.
I have experience going to Johnson and Murphy. I have bought a number of pairs of shoes over time. I have, you know, a dozen in my closet. I've got the money to fit out my space. Why can't I be in the shoe business and be certified at it?
If you can get Johnson and Murphy to provide you with the inventory that you need to open a store, not -- 242 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04
I didn't say I was selling Johnson and Murphy shoes. I said I wear them.
Okay. And based on that, if I have a contractual relationship with any company -- I mean, I'm not trying to give them advertising, you would certify me to be in that business?
As long as I have a supplier, you would certify me to be --
You would have to have -- You would also have to have some place to operate your business. 243 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04
Well, I'm trying to get one. I'm trying to get a concession out at the Airport.
I don't have a place. I'm going into the business. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm new. I'm fresh. I'm just eager. And I'm just, like, into the shoe thing.
Well, we would like at whether or not you have the ability to do that, whether you can actually get that place at the Airport or any other facility for --
Well, I can't get into the Airport unless I'm certified.
Based on the earlier testimony, there's a pretty 244 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 significant requirement out there. I mean, I guess I could go in certainly as a prime. But say I want to partner with someone.
Well, we have no 6 prohibition against you partnering with anybody, as long as -- if you were trying to be a minority firm --
I'm a minority shoe-selling firm. How do you determine whether or not I am qualified or... I'm sorry. Your term was bona fide, to be in that business. I have money that I got it from wherever I got it from. I say I know how to do this. I have a business plan. And I'm now coming to you saying, I want to get certified in this business. Can I do that?
You would need somebody who probably knew more about shoes.
I know a fair amount about shoes, men's shoes. 245 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04
They're men's shoes. They're burgundy, they're black, they're brown. You get the thing, you stand on it, I give you a nine and a half, a couple hundred bucks, goodbye. I mean, what I got to do? I got to shine them, too?
The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney for a point of information.
I'd like to stipulate that Councilman Nutter has very nice shoes.
I would buy them. If you recommended them, I would, because you've got very nice shoes.
Thank you very much. Would you stand in for me when I go 246 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 over to the MBEC?
I would write a letter saying you have very nice shoes. (Laughter.)
Councilman, we'd probably ask you that you need to start to operate your business before you actually apply for certification. You say you want to sell shoes.
I need to be in business. 247 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04
At the current time, we don't have a stipulation on how long you have to be in business, but you do have to be operational.
And we may have to know what your net worth is. Does that enter into it at all?
In the disadvantaged business program, personal net worth is a condition.
The threshold in the disadvantaged business program is $750,000. 248 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 That is outside of the Airport concession program which is a different criteria. Now, if you want to just sell shoes in the neighborhood or in the community, we work on a $750,000 threshold.
So as long as I don't have more than $750,000 in net worth...
That is excluding your primary residence and your equity in your business.
The criteria -- Outside of the Airport, there is no 17 personal net worth test. And depending upon which concession, the majority of the concessions cannot exceed a $30 million gross.
So, if I tell you that I've been in business for some 249 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 period of time, and do you go and check to look at the place where I say that I've been in business? Because you've told me that I can't --
-- can't get certified unless I've already been in business.
So an entrepreneur, a new entrepreneur cannot get certified?
So you're saying to me that if I had been smart enough coming out of school, and I had an idea -- I'm fresh out of college, just got my... just flipped the tassel last week at Penn, you're telling me that I could not get certified as a minority business?
It depends on what business we're talking about. You said retail? 250 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04
I have done all the analysis. I wrote a paper on it. I got an A. I believe that I can do this business. I am fresh out of school. I was four oh, which I was not. But you know, just to make the story interesting. You're telling me that because I have not been in business, I can't get certified.
I'm not saying because you have not been in business. I'm saying --
I'm saying you're not operational. At this point we have 251 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 nothing to evaluate.
I just took my robe back. I gave them the mortar board, the whole thing. My next stop is over to MSB. I want to get certified. I've got the money. I believe I've got the expertise. I've done all the research.
And I think she's saying that some businesses, Councilman, are more... Some businesses -- There's a subjective tests in everything. If we're looking at demolition, we're certainly looking at someone we want to have experience.
Well, I can understand that. Let's talk about -- You said that there were no thresholds on net worth out at the Airport.
For concessionaires. Why is that? 252 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04
Because we use the Federal Regulation 49 CFR Part 23. In 49 CFR Part it states that there is no 5 personal net worth test. You are not to 6 request that information from an applicant. 7
I could come out 11 of school as a millionaire and get 12 certified as a disadvantaged business? 13
Personal net worth 14 is not -- not a condition of eligibility at 15 the Airport. 16 If you came out a millionaire, what 17 would you be -- You still would have to 18 provide us with some -- some indication 19 that you are a business person or you're an 20 investor. You can be an equity partner. 21
And is there any 22 requirement, in terms of my equity 23 partnership, that I have any background or expertise in the business?
Not that I'm aware 253 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 of.
Not that I'm aware of. But somebody that you're investing with would certainly have to have some expertise.
Okay. All right. That's all. This is very interesting. I'd love the opportunity to sit down and talk with you a little more. And actually, when I leave, I'm going to go pick up M. R. I. copy of the 49 CFR, Part and read that tonight. 15 Thank you. I like it that you know 16 your stuff. 17
Thank you, Madam 19 Chair. 20 MR. McPHERSON: Does anybody else 21 have any questions for the witnesses? 22 (No response.) 23 MR. McPHERSON: Thank you. Recreation.
My name is Vic 254 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 Richard, the Recreation Commissioner, Department of Recreation. We were called back today. At the table I have with me to my left Tom Fox, our Maintenance Director; Deputy Commissioner Bill Carapucci; Deputy Commissioner Mary Platt Coles; and over by Councilman Kenney is Deputy Commissioner Carlton Williams. We have a presentation. We believe that will address a lot of the questions that were previously asked. There was a lot of work and effort put into this, through the Managing Director's Office, along with the Planning Commission, and also the Department of Rec, quite naturally. And thank you for calling us back. The City's current fiscal status does not allow the department to properly operate and maintain all 158 rec centers and the 87 pools. The City of Philadelphia is well above the median among large cities for the 255 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 number of facilities per capita, in part because it has an infrastructure designed for a city of over two million people. Recommendations from the City Controller. We recommend that Recreation begin to review its inventory of facilities, for the purpose of closing close that are too small, too deteriorated to rehabilitate or too close to a larger or better facility. Alternatives that we're considering. The Administration, the City Council strategically determine facilities that could be transferred, leased or sold to private and nonprofit organizations, alternative camps and programs to accommodate neighborhoods that are affected by closures, obsolete facilities that could be closed, sold or demolished and transformed into outdoor rec facilities, cost effective spray grounds to replace pools. Recommendations for the decisions. The following is a list of facilities that 256 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 have been identified and recommended for action. The first one is Frankford Valley. It's the address at Tacony in District 1. It's presently a Class C facility, built in 1978. Presently there's no after school program. Average day care attendance right now is children. 11 Recommendation is to maintain the 12 property, take down the building, keep the 13 play equipment and the rest of the 14 amenities in place. 15 Go to the next slide, Carlton. 16 Proximity to other recreation facilities or 17 rec services: There's a Class B facility 18 at Carmella five blocks down the street. 19 At Heitzman there's a Class A 20 facility, with a gymnasium and a swimming 21 pool which is five blocks. 22 The circle, if I may, on record 23 denotes a half a mile radius. 24 Capital funding in 2002 and 2004 was 25 zero. Present appropriations that sit in 257 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 there is 25,000. Our projected savings for five years is approximately $108,000. Next facility we'd like to discuss is Sacks. It's at Washington Avenue, and also in Council District 1. Pool was built in 1971, the building erected in 1948. It's in poor condition. It's a Class C. No camp, no after school. It's mainly operated during the summer for the pool. Our recommendation is to maintain the playgrounds, also the ball fields, and change the pool into a spray ground facility. The next closest facility is Shot Tower, which is a Class B, which also has a gymnasium three blocks away. The next closest pool is Harron, six blocks away, which is also a Class B facility. Those are the financial numbers on Sacks. From '00 to '04 there's no money invested and on '04 presently there's no 25 money appropriated. 258 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 The approximate cost savings in five years, including the pool, is approximately $285,000. Next facility is Franklin which is also in District 1. It's a Class B built in 1948, pool in 1971. The pool is still there. The building's in fair condition. The average camp attendance is approximately participants. The pool 11 presently is an inoperable condition.
12 Our recommendation is to create the 13 pool into a spray ground and to maintain 14 the outdoor facility. 15 In proximity to Franklin we have a 16 Class A facility which is 12 blocks away, 17 McVeigh, with a swimming pool, a gymnasium 18 and a teen center. 19 Capital funding, there's no 20 investment from '00 to '04. And in '04 there's $80,000 that has been appropriated. The approximate savings to the facility over five years is $678,000. Black, Coyle McBride, which is in Council District 1, is a Class C facility 259 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 also, built in 1950, pool in '65, very poor condition. No after school, approximately participants in the camp. 5 Recommend maintaining outdoor 6 facility. Proximity to other recreation 7 facilities, there's a Class B, Cione, five 8 blocks down the street, with a pool. 9 No investment from '00 to '04. 10 There's approximately $50,000 that's 11 appropriated presently. And we're looking 12 at approximately $193,000 worth of savings 13 over five years. 14 Rizzo Rink. All five ice skating 15 rinks will appear. The recommendation is 16 based on the fiscal condition at the City. 17 Hopefully doesn't go to, but they are being 18 discussed. 19
Point of 20 information about average attendance. Average attendance based on daily attendance or by program? It can't be annual.
Bill Carapucci, Recreation. That's daily attendance at 260 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 Rizzo Rink.
Yeah. And then you also have, as attendance there, in the off season with the roller rink, the day camp, the weight lifting program. So...
Thank you for making that point of information. Councilman, our recommendation on the five ice skating rinks, is to maintain the facility and not to operate them during the 14 months of the season.
Thank you, sir You can keep going, Carlton. Fante-Leone is a Class D facility. 261 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 It's a pool. It's been inoperable for five years. Our outright recommendation is to sell the property. Fante-Leone has Hawthorne and Ridgeway five blocks away, Class B facilities, with pools that can service the neighborhood. Keep going, Carlton. Stokely is the next facility. It's in District 1. It's a Class C. There's no 12 after school program presently there, and also there's approximately... camps. Recommendation is to sell the property. Stokely is eight blocks away from a Class A facility, Cohocksink. Approximate savings is a seasonal staff, for $35,000. Donald Finnegan in District 2 is a Class D facility. It's in fair condition. And it has after school program, with approximately 30 children, and a camp program with approximately 30 as well. Our recommendations, if we had to, is to maintain the property and to stop operations. Our goal is, if the City is 262 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 fiscally able to maintain Donald Finnegan.
Excuse me, Commissioner. What do you mean by maintaining the property?
The outside, the ball fields and the play equipment. But I also -- I want to go on record -- I'm sorry. You may have not heard me when you were about to chime in. If the City is fiscally able to maintain, this would be one that we would recommend to maintain to keep in operation.
Are we talking about the building and the outdoor facilities?
Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Either/or. If the City is not fiscally, we would have to go back to look at not operating the facility. But if the City is fiscally able to, at the end our recommendation would be to keep Donald Finnegan open and running.
I didn't 263 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 mean to interrupt you, but I wanted clarification. Thank you.
Thank you. Donald Finnegan's proximity is seven blocks from Vare, which is a Class A facility, with a gymnasium and a pool as well. Approximate savings in five years would be $53,000. And you can keep going, Carlton. Chew is in District 2. It's the next recommendation. It's a Class B facility. You have the pool, and you also have the small recreation facility. Pool built in '70 and the building in 1970. They're in fair condition. You have an after school program with children, and a camp program with 21 35. 22 Recommendation is to turn the pool 23 into a spray ground. Chew's proximity is seven blocks away from Marian Anderson, which is a Class A facility, with a 264 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 gymnasium and a pool as well. The approximate savings: The capital investment from '00 to '04 was a $60,000 investment. Right now there's $160,000 appropriation that's sitting. The approximate five-year savings to Chew is $653,000.
Can you get back to that just a minute, please? I'm just trying to ascertain how we got to that 653. MR. McPHERSON: Savings of 80 plus 130. The pool of 50 and the seasonal of 80. So it would be 130 times 5.
Next facility is Island Road which is in District 2. It's a Class B built in 1920. Pool was erected in 1975. It's in good condition. There's no 22 present after school, and average camp participants right now are 30. Our recommendation is to make it an outdoor facility, but we are also working 265 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 very diligently to try and maintain the facility and lease it out. I don't have a definitive status as of now. The next closest facility in proximity is James Finnegan which is a Class B facility which also has a pool, and it's approximately blocks from Island 9 Road. 10 Capital funding, there was a 11 $200,000 investment made in the last four 12 years, and the projected savings in five years is $250,000. Smith, which is in District 2 is a Class B. Without the pool it's really a Class C or a D. It's built in 1925. The pool was erected in 1975. It's in poor condition, the building and the pool. There's no after school. There's an average camp participant of 12. We are recommending maintaining the grounds. There's basketball courts, there's handball courts, there's play equipment and ball fields. We also would like to turn the pool 266 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 into a spray ground. The proximity is Vare, which is a Class A facility, which is five blocks down the street, which has a pool and a gymnasium as well. Approximately savings to the department and the City is $603,000. There's been a $150,000 investment made in '00 to '04, and there's $180,000 that has been appropriated right now. District 2, Lanier, is a Class B. It's really a C or D. It was built in 1956. It's in poor condition. There's an after school program with an attendance of 16 children and participants of approximately 12 in the camp. We recommend, once again, also to maintain the facility, the outdoor facility for the community, the play equipment, the basketball courts, and also the baseball field. Its proximity also is approximately five blocks down the street from Vare, 267 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 which has a pool and a gymnasium as well. Approximate savings to Lanier is $493,000. There's presently $310,000 appropriated in capital right now. We're in Councilmanic District 3, Conestoga. Is a Class C facility in fair condition. You have approximately 50 children in after school. Average participant is 40 in the summer camp. Conestoga is approximately eight blocks from Sheppard which is a Class A facility, with a gymnasium and a pool. And we just dedicated this evening at 4 o'clock a brand new teen center number five. Approximate savings to Conestoga would be $200,000 over five years. 48th and Woodland, in District 3, is a Class B, also a pool. Facility built in 1956, pool erected in 1971. It's in fair condition. After school program with 40, camp participants 30. 268 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 We recommend maintaining the building. We would like to take the pool out and make it a spray ground. Its proximity is to Kingsessing which is an A facility, approximately six blocks down the street, that also has a gymnasium and a pool, and it's also less than one mile from Francis J. Myers, which also has a gymnasium, a pool, and a brand new teen center as well. The approximate savings to the City at 48th and Woodland is approximately $743,000. 39th and Olive, the building was built... The little building at the top on the left was built in 1971. The pool was rebuilt in 1995. There's no after school. This facility is mainly operated during the summertime for the pool. Next closest pool is Lee, which is a Class B facility, which is eight blocks, with a brand new pool that's two years old. Approximate savings to the City is a 269 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 quarter of a million, $250,000. Back up Carlton, please. In Lee, there was 400 -- And 39th and Olive was redone back in 2000 and 2001. It was a $440,000 investment. Cobbs Creek Ice Rink.
Conshocken and Windemere, our recommendation is to maintain the exterior, the play equipment, also the ball field, and to take the building out. It's a Class D facility. I don't believe it's been staffed in what? Close to years. We'd like to keep the 15 property in the neighborhood for passive 16 recreation. 17 You have John C. Anderson which is 18 approximately 15 blocks away. 19 Okay. Thank you, sir. We can keep 20 going. Rose in District 4 is a Class B facility. It was built in 1959. It's an after school program with 17 participants, an average of 20 participants in summer camp. 270 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 We recommend maintaining the property as well, taking out the building. Our next closest facility is Papa which is three blocks across the street, and we will maintain operations there, structured operations. Approximate savings to Rose would be $493,000 over five years. The capital investment in the last four years is $115,000, and there's $100,000 appropriated at the present. Wissahickon Neighbors is a Class D built in 1974. It's mainly operated open door in the summertime. Recommendation is to maintain it as an outdoor facility, no after school, no 18 camp. Venice Island Recreation Facility is a Class B which is closest proximity. It's a little bit over a half a mile away, seasonal staff. Venice Island, Class C facility. It's in fair condition. After school program, camp participants, right now we 271 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 show zero, average pool participants 7200. Could you go back to the other slide with the better map for that one? Don't we have another slide?
I just have one point of information. I'd like to point out... Can you go to the Wissahickon Neighbors slide for a second, please, the map. That one. I'd like just like to point out that this slide says... You're proposing to close Wissahickon Neighbors, right? Is that correct?
Okay. Your proximity to other recreation facilities is Venice Island.
The next slide is Venice Island. 272 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04
We -- We -- We understand that. We -- We are mostly interested in the pool at Venice island, sir.
So you're proposing to keep it open, keep the facility open, but close the pool.
That would be one of the recommendations that we would discuss with you, the Administration, and everything, right. These are all recommendations and talking points. None of this stuff is written in stone, sir.
Keep going. Baker is a Class C facility built in 1966. There's a pool built in 1997. It's in fair condition. You have after school program, the participants are 12, in the average camp 273 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 the participant is 25. In proximity you have Sheppard which is a Class A facility that's approximately blocks away. 6 Our recommendation, if the fiscal 7 stability of the City will allow it, we 8 would try and maintain keeping this one 9 fully operational as well, both building 10 and pool. Keep going, Carlton. 29 and Chalmers is a Class D facility. It's fair condition.
Can I just ask: Why is it that the... every center, every facility has a box that -- as one of the piece of information. If you go back to the previous... That one. Why is it that we're only 274 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 talking about the capital improvements over the last three or four years to these facilities? How is it decided that that was going to be the measurement of whether there has been capital investment in the facilities?
I had only just went back from the time that I had came in from 2000.
I understand. And I can appreciate that. I would like to at least point out, though, that in the mid '90s there was a significant amount of investment in probably every facility that's been up on the board and those that will come afterwards because the City had no capital program, for the most part, for a number of years. 275 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 And Council members between about 1994 and 2000 made significant investments, and the department did, and the Capital Program Office, and the City Planning Commission in many of these facilities. So I'm not saying that those numbers are incorrect because I'm sure that they are. What I'm suggesting to you is that they do not present a complete picture of the significant amount of investment in many of these facilities over the past ten years. So, you could have little to no 16 investment in some of these facilities in the last two or three years. But that obscures hundreds of thousands of dollars in investment in many of these facilities during the previous four or five or six years. I just think that it's important to look at that in that context.
Thank you, sir. Parkside Evans... Go back to the 276 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 other slide. We don't have -- I'm sorry we didn't get the picture of that one. It's a Class C, fair facility, built in 1965. And they do good work there. Our recommendation also, if the budget allows, that we maintain Parkside Evans operations, if possible, too. You can keep going. 8th and Diamond. It's in District 5. It's a Class C facility in fair condition. Approximate after school numbers is 15, camp participants 10. Once again, our recommendation is to maintain it as an outdoor facility. It's approximately 12 blocks away from Towey. Capital Funding dollars over the last four years, $186,000. There's approximately $30,000 in Capital right now through PICA. And five-year savings estimated at $215,000. Penrose is a Class B. It's in fair 277 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 condition. You also have after school program in there. Participation numbers of eight. Camp participation numbers at 30. Recommendation is to maintain it as outdoor facility. Penrose is approximately eight blocks away from Amos. Can you back up, Carlton? All of those yellow names, you have went White Hall Common, Winchester, White Hall Commons, Duckery, Amos, Columbia, 8th and Diamond. In the middle is Penrose. At the top right is Veterans. The circle, the main circle is a half a mile. Capital investment from 2000 to '04 appropriated now 275. Over five years, estimated $743,000 savings. Simpson Pool is a facility that we discussed. Our recommendation is to maintain the pool and the rec center. It's up here because it's one that we discussed and discussed only. You can keep going, Carlton. Cecil B. Moore is a Class A facility 278 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 that was built in 1930. Pool was built in 1975. The bottom line recommendation is the building should be torn down, demolished, and rebuilt at today's standards. Martin Luther King is a Class A, seven blocks away, with a brand new pool that is less than two years old. Our recommendation is to tear down C. B. Moore, build another full-size recreation center at the same site, and have a spray ground. Also, Hank Gathers is eight blocks away from Cecil B. Moore, and it's a Class A facility, with a pool as well. Without rebuilding, the total approximate five-year savings is $923,000. East Popular is a Class B. Without the pool it would be a Class C. It's in fair condition. Pools in fair condition, as well. You have after school with approximately 12 young children, and 35 in 279 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 camp. Our recommendation is to take out the pool, and to turn the pool into a spray ground. East Popular is another pool by a Class A facility, eight blocks away at Cruz. The pool at Cruz is one year old. Approximate savings at East Popular, 743. Athletic. Athletic also was built in 1983. Our recommendation at the present is to take out Athletic's pool. It's in real bad shape. And we may not get it open right now. I don't have the final. It's also one of, I believe, three or five eight-foot pools that the City still has left. The pool is in very poor condition. Our recommendation here at Athletic is only to take the pool out. Mander is a B, with a pool less than a mile -- M. L. King is less than a mile, with a pool as well. 280 Whole - Bills 040255, et al - 5/18/04 Keep going, Carlton. Winchester is a Class C. When has it really been programmed, the last center?
It's been approximately five or six years ago that it's really had strong programming. The numbers we have right now is after school 18, camp participants 25. Our strong recommendation is to transfer or lease this property to a nonprofit or anyone interested in the community. Winchester is a little bit away from a mile, from 13 blocks from a Class A facility, Martin Luther king. Keep going, Carlton. Hancock. This facility also is same, like Simpson was. It was one for discussion. You can keep going. You can keep going.