COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, May 6, 2024 10:16 a.m. PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT KENYATTA JOHNSON COUNCILWOMAN NINA AHMAD COUNCILWOMAN CINDY BASS COUNCILWOMAN KENDRA BROOKS COUNCILMAN MICHAEL DRISCOLL COUNCILWOMAN JAMIE GAUTHIER COUNCILWOMAN KATHERINE GILMORE RICHARDSON COUNCILMAN JIM HARRITY COUNCILMAN CURTIS J. JONES, JR. COUNCILWOMAN RUE LANDAU COUNCILWOMAN QUETCY M. LOZADA COUNCILMAN NICOLAS O'ROURKE COUNCILMAN ANTHONY PHILLIPS COUNCILMAN MARK F. SQUILLA
240179, 240180, 240181, 240182 RESOLUTION: 240193
This is the public hearing and public meeting of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill Nos. 240179, 240180, 240181, 240182 and Resolution No. 240193. Ms. Loughead, would you please call the roll to take attendance.
Present. Thank you. A quorum of the Committee is present and this hearing is now called to order. Ms. Loughead, will you please read the titles of the bills and resolution.
Bill No. 7 240179, an ordinance to adopt the Operating Budget for Fiscal Year 2025. Bill No. 240180, an ordinance amending Chapter 19-1800 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "School Tax Authorization," to provide for an increase in the tax that the Board of Education of the School District of Philadelphia is authorized to impose on real estate, and amending Chapter 19 19-1300, entitled "Real Estate Taxes," to establish an equivalent reduction in the tax rate for the City real estate tax, and making technical changes, all under certain terms and conditions. Bill No. 240181, an ordinance to adopt a Fiscal Year 2025 Capital Budget. Bill No. 240182, an ordinance to adopt a Capital Program for the six Fiscal Years 2025-2030 inclusive. Resolution No. 240193, providing for the approval by the Council of the City of Philadelphia of a revised Five Year Financial Plan for the City of Philadelphia covering Fiscal Years 2025 through 2029, and incorporating revisions with respect to Fiscal Year 2024, which is to be submitted by the Mayor to the Pennsylvania Intergovernmental Cooperation Authority pursuant to an Intergovernmental Cooperation Agreement by and between the City and the Authority.
Thank you very much. Today we will continue the public hearing of the Committee of the Whole to consider the bills read by the Clerk that constitute proposed operating capital spending measures for Fiscal Year 2025, a Capital Program and a Forward-looking Capital Plan for Fiscal Year 2025 through Fiscal Year 2030. This morning we will hear testimony from the Register of Wills, Managing Director's Office, Office of Homeless Services and the Police Department. This afternoon we will continue with questions for these departments. Ms. Loughead, will you please call the first witness to testify.
The first person to testify is John Sabatina, Register of Wills. (Witnesses approached Witness table.)
Good morning, President Johnson and Distinguished members of City Council. I'm John Sabatina, Register of Wills and Clerk of Orphans' Court. I'm honored to be here today to present my budget address for the Register of Will's Office. As your Register of Wills, I am grateful for the opportunity to outline our fiscal needs and highlight the critical work we do on behalf of the people of Philadelphia. Our office provides essential services that touch the lives of every Philadelphian in one way or another. Joining me today are Bob Stewart, my Chief Deputy; Emilio DiGregorio, Deputy of Government Affairs; Erald Dika, Finance Director; Shariff Roseboro, Deputy of Human Resources; Kyle Sampson, Director of Public Engagement; Frank Campese, our solicitor; and Keith Harris from our administrative team. I am pleased to provide testimony on the Register of Will's Fiscal Year 2025 operating budget. Our department plans: With additional funding requests made to the Administration, the Register of Will's Department plans for Fiscal Year '25 are to increase the wealth for all citizens of Philadelphia through education by introducing a legal support staff to imple -- excuse me, implement a Title Clearance Unit, which will replace the Probate Deferment Initiative. This new unit will include a staff of attorneys, paralegals and researchers to augment and enhance the function of legal nonprofit organizations. Second, we're going to continue our diverse hiring practices to better reflect the population we serve. Proudly we exceed the City average in female employees and far exceed the City's diversity goals in our contracts. Third, we want to continue restoration and preservation of the historic archives. Fourth, increase our presence in community through public outreach via our new Public Engagement Department, which will provide assistance to constituents in protecting their generational wealth through education about wills and estates. Fifth, onboard a legacy software system vendor to make the necessary changes recommended by the state auditor. Sixth, in addition as requested by the City Solicitor, we would like to take on recordkeeping of the life partnerships from the Department of Human Relations. I'd like to mention that no 24 additional funding was granted by the Administration above the current appropriation level. From this point on, I'd like to turn -- excuse me. Any questions on the little bit that I just went over?
Yeah. Thank you very much, Mr. Sabatina. I just have a couple questions before I turn it over to my colleagues. Just give us an update on -- I know members of this body invested heavily on supporting under the leadership of Councilwoman Katherine Gilmore Richardson and the investment on tangled titles. We invested a significant amount of part of our budget last year to support those efforts. And so, let's talk more about your work in terms of going out in the community, making sure we're addressing the issue of equity when it comes to generational wealth which you just talked about, specifically with regarding tangled titles. And then also, I know that you have an initiative where you want to hire lawyers to come inhouse to work with estate planning for individuals. How would that be different than the partnership we have right now with Community Legal Services that's doing tangled titles?
Yeah. We have a plan to continue to work with Community Legal Services, but we want with our request add additional staff to actually work on title clearance. We have developed a Title Clearance Unit, which will actually work on clearing titles which is quite different from previous administration, which basically deferred probate costs which were amounted to $300 or $400 and then passed everything off to Community Legal Services. Community Legal Services unfortunately worked on the restriction of the poverty level to take in constituents. We intend to work above that level to offer services to the citizens of Philadelphia. And I have here with me various staff members who are going to work on each and every department. First off, I want to call on Emilio DiGregorio on operations and contracts. MR. DiGREGORIO: How are you doing, Council President and Councilmembers?
Good morning. MR. DiGREGORIO: So the Title Clearance Unit specifically will be operating at 180 percent above the poverty line, and this will cover low- and middle-income class families. The other change is that we're working with constituents who don't have pressing needs, and that is one of the main things that CLS and VIP work with.
Can you clarify that again? MR. DiGREGORIO: So if CLS and VIP take priority cases based on foreclosure, major utility shut- off, emergency repair on the house, they're taking priority for those constituents, whereas someone who's just trying to get their affairs in order kind of it's a delayed or a waitlist process with that, and we're just looking to --
You're going to work with the ones who aren't key priority at the moment, just individuals who are trying to get their titles cleared? MR. DiGREGORIO: We'll take anyone who -- overflow capacity for anything regardless of situation.
Okay. And just a follow-up on the community engagement component, give us an idea with your Community Engagement Unit, the work that y'all are going to be doing in terms of outreach and again making sure this process is equitably fair across the City of Philadelphia. MR. DiGREGORIO: Yeah. So with our community engagement strategy, we're looking to empower individuals with effective estate planning. Some of the things we see is that there's a cultural disconnect in some communities as far as having that conversation with family members, so bringing these strategies to remove assets out of probate, transition with named beneficiaries or rights of survivorship deeds, having a more relaxed conversation on how to protect their assets and transfer assets without making declarations is the top priority. Creating a will is a huge step for some people, so those are some of the stop-gaps that we want to introduce to people to take advantage of. In addition to that, we're explaining trusts, how that can become a facet for them to utilize in their estate planning and just an overall education on --
How many people are in your Community Engagement Unit? MR. DiGREGORIO: Right now we have about --
What's the actual number? MR. DiGREGORIO: Currently the actual number is three, but I know that they are onboarding another three individuals to be --
So you have a total of six? MR. DiGREGORIO: Eventually.
How much for this particular budget will go towards your Community Engagement Unit? MR. DiGREGORIO: I'll pass that to the Finance Director.
My name is Erald Dika. I'm the Finance Director. So our current budget is about $5,024,000 at this point, so we have requested additional positions during the budget presently. So additional staff members will be dedicated to the Community Outreach Unit. Our current staff is doing the best with the resources that they have at the moment given that the Register of Wills has many competing priorities important in in the office and also outside through citizens of Philadelphia. So given the limited resources that we have, we're doing the best we can. But if additional funding is provided, we can dedicate more resources to the Community Unit.
I just want to acknowledge Roger Powe. He does community engagement, and I just want to acknowledge him for the work that he has been doing. I know we partnered on a couple events, but I definitely want to acknowledge him for his hard work and his dedication in terms of doing outreach. We think it's important that when we're dealing with the issue of gentrification here in the City of Philadelphia, and a lot of times we have a lot of tax incentives and tax relief programs here in the City of Philadelphia that we are allowed to help people with or that's available to help people with. However, if they don't have their deed in their name, for the most part they can't take advantage of the several different tax relief measures that we have available for them. And that's why from a community engagement standpoint and educating the wider public about how you get the title cleared, how do you go about either transitioning the deed from one family member to another family member to make sure it's in their names, people can have an opportunity to take advantage of the tax relief measures that we have. My last question before I turn it over to my members: You mentioned also in your testimony that y'all have exceeded the diversity and equity goals of most City departments. So give us an idea on your contracts, your diversity and inclusion numbers.
So currently our contracts we are close to like 50 percent. We have minority contracts. Also, we have disabled. As far as diversity in the office, we are about 50 percent. We just extended three additional offers to three additional staff members that we will onboard soon, so 50 percent minority currently plus the three that will come up. The majority of our contracts go through the City's process. Before we can issue a contract, we reach out to the City's Office of Economic Opportunity, and we work with them to make sure that we meet the City's standards and goals.
Plus three additional staff members who just extended onboarding offers.
Okay. That's all I have. Before I turn it over to the members, I want to acknowledge the presence of Councilmember Kendra Brooks, Councilmember O'Rourke, Councilmember Mark Squilla. With that being said, the Chair recognizes Councilmember Jamie Gauthier.
The Chair recognizes Councilmember Curtis Jones.
Councilmember Jones, just one second. If you aren't asking questions on this round for the Register of Wills, I'm going to ask you to turn off your light. And then when the next department comes up, then go ahead and press your light so we'll know who's asking questions during this round. Chair recognizes Councilmember Jones.
Thank you, Mr. President. You like our Mayor are a little over 100 days in, so the questions I'm going to ask you aren't necessarily to be answered today but might become priority in your administration. In my office when we see a pothole the first time, it's a pothole. We see it 10 times, it's a problem. What I'd like some guidance and clearance from your office on is the Orphans' Court relationship. And what do I mean by that? Literally I'm around the corner from it. Come out your doors, people often come out. And one of the issues that came up was about an elderly aunt who had siblings, relations in the house. And for whatever reason, it was determined that her care wasn't adequate so they assigned an entity to take over auntie's health. She wound up in one of the senior citizen housing units. I'm not going to name the one but she wound up there, and they used the equity of the home to pay for her admittance. When that equity ran out, she had to go. So I want to kind of understand what role you guys play and whether or not you and your office might take that on to take a look at how often that happens and what we collectively can do to prevent seniors from winding up in places that I would not want my mom to be in? Who deals with Orphans' Court?
That is a federally-mandated situation where they use their equity. As far as what can be done or what happens, that would go back to Orphans' Court, and that would be in Judge Woods-Skipper bailiwick and would not enter into our office.
No. The Orphans' Court basically is run by the judge and she makes legal decisions.
So I'm saying the Register of Wills in that kind of case when the deed is utilized, you don't play a role?
As far as my understanding of our relationship with Orphans' Court is we are basically the administrative arm and the decisions are made by the judge, Judge Woods-Skipper, who is the President Judge of Orphans' Court.
So what I'd like to do offline, not to hold it up in here, is work with you in Orphans' Court -- Judge Woods- Skipper is a friend -- to figure that out and see how often that happens and if that's a pervasive problem or not. And so, assign somebody to work with me.
I would love to give you an answer. But here like I'm trying to explain, that's a legal question for Orphans' Court and it's run basically -- those decisions are the decisions of the President Judge of Orphans' Court.
And when I leave here, I will talk to Judge Woods-Skipper and see how she may handle it, but however she is the President Judge of Orphans' Court and those matters are in her hands.
The second thing that I found out about was your role with historic documents. How are we situated to preserve them? Are we doing -- what's the status? The reason this came up was during the uprisings, the riots, your office was in danger because they broke your windows out or something like that. How are we preserving some of those documents post --
We are presently in contact with a contractor who would handle updating the archives. There's a lot of areas that need to be addressed here again. Funding is a problem. There's literally millions of documents dating back to the start of the City that we have in our possession, but the preservation of them is well behind every other county. Some of that's due to the fact that the size of the City of Philadelphia and the astronomical cost of what we are speaking to, a firm that's in charge of digitalizing and preserving those documents and hopefully updating the system.
So to the degree that you need resources, you should tell us because we're partners in this. William Penn's Charter is one of those documents, and those are the kinds of things that we appreciate but we under kind of value as citizens and we want to preserve for future generations. So as you run into those kinds of challenges, it's our burden too. And so, let us know. We can work it out with our state partners. You provide a lot of money to the state, and some of that I think needs to come back for preservation efforts. Thank you, Mr. President.
Yeah, we have also contacted people in the state, legislators and what have you, in attempting to get grants to cover some of the cost of that program.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Katherine Gilmore Richardson.
Thank you. Thank you, Council President. Thank you to our Register. I wanted to thank you for the meeting that we held previously when you spoke to your focus and continued focus on the tangled title issue and resolving tangled titles. And in particular, I was very interested in the part where you talked about ensuring that Philadelphians would not have liens when they go through the program on their property around tangled title resolution. So if you could just speak to that so that we could understand programmatically what the difference will be from what the program was previously and then what the program will look like now, I think that would be helpful for my colleagues?
You want to take -- go ahead. MR. DiGREGORIO: Thank you, Councilmember Richardson. So the previous program was working with deferring fees guiding individuals through the probate process. There was a lien instituted for those fees. And then from there the person would take their letters of administration or testamentary and attempt to record a new deed. Certain times those people ran into hurdles because their needs weren't dire at the time, so the deed process became a little longer. Life happens, the deed never gets recorded. It's still an open tangled title case but at least they went through the probate process. If and when they were able to pay the probate fees, the lien was removed and so on and so forth. Some individuals outside of the structure found that the lien was restrictive, caused concern for going to get funding for a new mortgage and whatnot. And then the selling factor of the program, we weren't receiving as many cases as we anticipated, so the Title Clearance Unit working at 180 percent above the poverty level covers a wider gap of individuals and we're covering a facet of the probate process that wasn't covered prior, which is conducting error searches to ensure that the wealth is transferred in accordance to the law which is our main mission. We're also providing additional guidance with petition submissions and working with our Recorder of Deeds, James Leonard, with deed recording.
And to your point, relative to the cost of the lien if the family and/or individual is unable to pay for the, I don't want to say lien, but if they're unable able to pay for the fees, then what happens? Are you all covering that fee? Are you waiving the fee? MR. DiGREGORIO: If the individual qualifies for an IFP, the Register has the authority to waive the fee.
Got you. Okay. Thank you for the clarification. Thank you, Mr. President.
You're welcome, Madam Leader. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Jim Harrity.
Thank you, Council President. Hey, Register. How are you? With the additional funding for the Title Clearance Unit, how many people will be eligible for that program? MR. DiGREGORIO: Thank you, Councilman Harrity, for that question. So working at 180 percent above the federal poverty line, we're going from percent 15 of the City's population to about 43 percent.
Okay. And can you provide updates on efforts to digitize and preserve the records and make them more easy to access to the public? MR. DiGREGORIO: Certainly. So with our most recent project, we've been able to index over 400 of our large format books and over 50,000 records are preserved for perpetuity. With those records, we're ranging from 1699 up until 2002. And also, this has given us the ability to build the integrity of our database for when we eventually go customer side public view for everyone to utilize.
Okay. All right. Thank you. That's all I got, Council President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Mark -- excuse me, Mark -- Rue Landau.
Thanks. I'll take it. Thank you. Thank you, Council President. Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for being here. I just want to lay a little background first as to what the problem is, this widely known problem that Philadelphia has widespread tangled title issues. According to Pew, there are approximately 11,000 tangled titles in Philadelphia and the problem has disproportionately affected Black homeowners. Just like there's a racial wealth gap and a racial homeownership gap, there's also a racial wills gap. Dr. Thomas Mitchell, the MacArthur genius Award winner at Boston University who has researched Black homeownership issues, has said that 65 percent of White families have a will while only percent of Black 17 families have a will. And the 18 disparity doesn't go away with 19 educational attainment. 20 In fact, a higher 21 percentage of White people without 22 a high school education have a 23 will, 57 percent, than Black people with a college education at 32 percent. So this is a massive problem that we have a great -- there's a lot of opportunities here where we can really make some significant change. What are some of the barriers that you've identified that low-income heirs face in raising their loved ones' estates at your office to ensure that the deed to the family home is properly transferred to the heirs and what can we do to help surmount those barriers?
Well, like we already explained we are going to have a Title Clearance Unit, which we're hoping to develop with Council's aid, that will basically work to clear the titles. We're going to have a staff of an attorney, paralegals and other staff working on it to try to -- not try, but actually clear various titles of individuals and do some research and heir search when necessary to clear the titles.
How will staff attorneys in your office be able to clear titles if they're practicing basically before your --
If they're practicing before your office? How would it be allowable for you to have lawyers representing people to clear titles when you're at least the administrative decision-maker? MR. DiGREGORIO: I'll take it. Thank you for that question, Councilperson Landau. Our attorneys won't be attorney of record for these estates. They'll be ensuring that the steps that are needed to follow are followed through on. And just to hit back on the Thomas Mitchell mention you made, we've identified some things that from their last conference that was a couple weeks ago and there were a lot of stakeholders from Philadelphia there. And while legal resources is a huge hurdle for people in creating that will, the number one thing that a lot of individuals from urban areas noted was that getting people to create deeds with right of survivorship and ensuring that people are aware of adding beneficiaries to assets. Beneficiary first level and second level was the best way to circumvent getting into a tangled title, and it's unfortunate that that's what was said, but it's the reality and it's unfortunate.
I understand that, and I'm very excited that you're going to have a larger community engagement group, that this is the number one thing that we need to do proactively. But right now we also have a lot of people coming to your office with tangled titles. And if your staff is going to engage in just kind of assisting in the right -- I'm trying to figure out what your unit's going to do. And also, you said you're going to take people up to 180 percent of poverty, but CLS takes people up to 250 percent of poverty. Is there a way to expand your guidelines? MR. DiGREGORIO: Well, according to their website we didn't see that stat.
They have different funding streams that allow them to go beyond the basic restrictions. I would hope that your office could help anybody who's coming in. MR. DiGREGORIO: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And we're just not helping people with pressing issues. So if you don't have a foreclosure or a sheriff's sale, we're still going to help you. So that's kind of where we differentiate in that.
I appreciate that, and I'm trying to wrap my head around exactly what the unit would do. And I see that there's a lot of administrative help that can happen I think internally that isn't the full legal work of actually representing somebody, but there might be a fine line in that. Would love to talk to you more about that process. And what will you -- tell me more about your community outreach group and how diverse -- you said you have three people. You want to increase it to six. How diverse are they? Do they speak other languages and how are they getting trained? MR. DiGREGORIO: So we utilize all of our staff. We have Spanish-speaking individuals, Vietnamese and we may have currently six people with the onboarding of our outreach staff, but we utilize individuals from our Probate Unit, our Marriage License Unit. So when we have an event, we have individuals from different units along with the outreach staff at these events. And from there, we can provide a full array of all of our services at these events.
To add to that, we also hire language experts. We work with the City. We book interpreters on site to attend public events where there's community outreach events. We target different languages.
20 more seconds. Are you going to formalize your in forma pauperis, IFP process? For people who can't afford the fees for filing, do you have a -- MR. DiGREGORIO: We mirror what the courts use currently.
Thank you. Thank you so much, Councilmember Landau. The Chair now recognizes Councilmember Bass.
First of all, let me say thank you for being here. And I know that -- as someone mentioned earlier, it's like the Mayor, you've been here for a little more than 100 days. But I think that you have with you some really great qualified talent that I'm very happy that you were able to retain once you took over the office. And I want to just acknowledge Shariff Roseboro Howell, who's here who does Human Resources and also Roger Powe -- I saw Roger over there -- who our office as well has worked extensively with them, and they're doing a great job. So that being said, I also wanted to just ask a couple of questions really quickly. And I don't know if this is for Human Resources or Shariff or whoever, but I wanted to get more information and just follow up a little bit on Councilwoman Landau's question on the community outreach piece that you do. Can you give us some indication as to what does the community outreach team do? Is it more reactive? Is it proactive? And for that specific team, what are the demographics of that team?
Thank you, Councilmember Bass. So currently the team, as you know Roger --
Kyle, Kyle Sampson. And we're onboarding several other people. So right now we have three. We'll probably finish with six, but more importantly I want to increase the functionality of the community outreach.
What's the demographics of the three and then the additional three?
Well, the future I can't speak to just yet. But there are currently three African American.
Two male, one female. The most recently onboarded person to definitely join that team is an African American female. She'll be our graphics person and then the two future to be determined.
So we have one person we're considering for the team. We already made an offer to bring onto our team but whether we're going to use community outreach, she speaks two different Indian languages. We have Spanish -- Kyle speaks Arabic. So off the top of my head that's all I remember at the moment.
Yeah, we have four -- we have a lot of different languages on the staff. You're asking specifically about community outreach or -
Yeah, I 6 know it's very diverse. The entire 7 team is very diverse. 8
Yeah. So 9 that's part of the reason -- so the 10 functionality of the team that I 11 want to do in terms of someone 12 going to a community event being 13 able to start the process for 14 people. We're bringing in people 15 who are a little bit more knowledgeable about each specific department. So in the past -- in fact, just Saturday we had people from different departments at our community outreach events. So they're not necessarily community outreach people. Today right now they're back in the department doing short certificates of state services, inheritance tax, but on Saturday they were at our community event working at a table answering questions. So that's part of what we want to do, where it's not so much this person's in just community outreach. This person may work in marriage licenses and can answer questions about something. They may work in records and talk about you need an exemplified copy so that you can get a citizenship situation going on with the federal government. There's all kinds of things, but these people actually will be able to answer the questions better because our community outreach, they know who to reach out to, but they know it so deeply as to answer a really hard question. So that's the one thing we want to do. But, yeah, we want to do about six people. Like we said, we brought a really talented young woman to do graphics and she'll start in a couple weeks. And that'll help with the educational material and all that. So we're really focused on that. Again, being just a little more than 100 days in we're just restructuring and putting the great people in place to lead the department and take us in that direction.
Okay. And so, for those folks that you are bringing in, can you talk -- actually can we talk a little bit about the onboarding process for those who are going to be doing community outreach work because it's important to have a sense of exactly what is that going to look like?
I missed the beginning part of your question. I'm sorry. What is it going to look like for?
For that community outreach part of your team. I was asking if Ms. Roseboro as a Human Resources person could speak to how are they going to be onboarding, because it's very important the way you come in is as important as the work that you'll be doing.
Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Shariff Roseboro Howell, Deputy of Human Resources. Our one board, it looks like we interview, it's a panel, that we sit back and we interview and we ask questions --
Pardon the interruption. May you please speak into the mic for the stenographer and just please restate your name for the record and your testimony.
Shariff Roseboro Howell, Deputy of Human Resources. Our hiring board is where we have several people on the panel and we interview. We look at your background, your interests, your thoughts, what you think about your community and if you have empathy or you have passion for your position because in this position you definitely need empathy, you need passion. You have to have a work ethic in order to do this position.
Okay. All right. Well, thank you because we wanted to make sure that those who are doing that community outreach position, they have the outgoing personality, they're very interested in being an outreach person and they've got the skill set that's necessary to make people feel comfortable, people from the community to feel comfortable like this is an office that's going to help me. They're not going to hurt me. They're not going to take my property. They're not going to do something that's going to be damaging to me or my family. They speak the language. They're interested in me. And so, that onboarding process I just wanted to ask her if she could speak to that. So thank you so much for that. And I just wanted to say that speaking into microphone, we all know, many of us who know Shariff know that she can speak really loudly so I'm surprised. But thank you very much. Do I have any more time, Madam Chair?
If you have one more question, colleague.
So my last question is what's the average cost to untangle a title for the Register of Will's Office and also for the individual homeowner? MR. DiGREGORIO: Yeah, sure. Thank you, Councilperson Bass. Based on the Pew study that was conducted, it was anywhere between I think $5,000 to $10,000 depending on the complexity of the estate.
Okay. Thank you. We have to do something about that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Okay. Thank you, Councilwoman Bass. The Chair now recognizes Councilmember Squilla.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Register. The same issue as tangled titles, and I know that we invested heavily last year in trying to unscramble the tangled titles, do we know under the process last year how many tangled titles were completed? MR. DiGREGORIO: Thank you for that question, Councilperson Squilla. We had had 62 PDI estates. Of those, new deeds 15 were recorded. So out of the 62, 16 21 were recorded. The remaining 17 cases are still pending resolution. 18
Are 19 they still under CLS? 20 MR. DiGREGORIO: The 21 individuals are awaiting assistance to have a new deed recorded or drawn up through any various organization, one of which could be CLS, could be Philly VIP, Senior Law Center. We've provided all the stakeholders as a resource to them to utilize.
I know from the Pew study there's, I guess, a projection of how many tangled titles are -- I mean, it's kind of hard to tell but they had a a number. If there was additional resources added, do you think 30 a year is something that is good? Do you think we should be doing more? How do we process tangled titles in a way that would get to the root and not only the people who are looking for basic systems repair or trying to get a Homestead or whatever, but other tangled titles that before they get to that point so that we don't have to then try to jump through hoops and have that process to start at that time? MR. DiGREGORIO: I think it needs to be a multi-entity operation. Relying just on the Register of Wills is a little bit challenging, but we're doing our best to provide as much information possible to the constituents to resolve the situation. Resources to legal services, to education are the best way to combat this.
Because it seems like one of the biggest challenges is finding heirs, right, locating people. And if you can't find them -- once you do find them, you have to get them to sign off. Would there be a third party, somebody helping to find these folks? I know you said you were going to hire some people to do some research, but I know there's organizations and companies that do this also. Is that something that would be added to this? MR. DiGREGORIO: So that's something that the Title Clearance Unit under the Register's program will be conducting heir search through various agencies. We'll be ensuring that all errors are identified as the estate moves forward.
All right. Because at that point once that's done, then once you find them, right, then the process still takes a while to go through. And in a year, you said we did 60? MR. DiGREGORIO: 60.
So there's still a lot more to do, right? MR. DiGREGORIO: Absolutely.
There's a lot of work. And I'm looking forward to seeing how this proposal holds forth and what we could do to assist. But obviously, it's a challenge for not only the people who are going through it but we see it happening time and time again. And we talk about wills, right. As far as a knowledge point, and I think that's where we go into the community outreach, a lot of people don't even think about that, right? Even you hear folks that somebody dies and then nobody knows who the house is left to. At that point, if we could do the will part too, it will help us in the future to hopefully offset the number of tangled titles in the future. So I think it's a two-pronged approach and looking forward to trying to see how we can help with you moving forward to do that. So thank you.
Thank you so much, colleague. The Chair now recognizes Councilmember Landau.
Thank you. Just a couple more questions. Thank you. And I'm getting excited about this Title Clearance Unit. I'm hoping that you can resolve some of the administrative parts first, especially how that could even help the legal services agencies before you send it to them if you've got everybody lined up on what they need. I think that could be really helpful. I wanted to talk about intermediary estates. So a client who comes to you has to probate their deceased parent's estate before the title can get transferred. And I know that VIP came up with an affidavit that they used to use to bypass that process, but that your office is not recognizing that. And I just wanted to hear more about that. I think the quicker we can make this process happen legally obviously the better. And just wanted to hear your thoughts on that.
Good morning, Councilmember. My name is Frank Campese. I'm the solicitor here at the Register of Wills' Office. So the intermediary estate affidavit was created during the last Administration or proposed during the last Administration, and there were some of us in the office that were concerned, because for 50-plus years that issue did not exist. So here's the concern: When you have an estate, for example, a mom passes away with four children, okay. And let's name the children A, B, C and D. So Mom has died 30 years ago and since subsequent to her death, A has died, B has died, C has died and they all have children. So now D is the sole remaining "live heir" and they want to sell mom's house. So normally the practice is you have to open up the estates for A, B and C because who's going to speak for A, B and C other than their heirs, so they have estates, they have heirs. So the affidavit of intermediary estates was going to in essence kind of skip the opening of the estates for A, B and C. The problem comes in with respect to that issue is have all the heirs been notified of A, B and C. Have they all agreed. Does the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania get their inheritance taxes for A, B and C. So typically what we've done in the office, and we've been doing it for years, is making sure that everyone is treated equally. So the estates for A has to be open, B has to be open, C has to be open. And if you have the cooperation of the heirs, it is not that difficult to do. It's just an additional step that needs to be taken unfortunately. But that is for us to ensure that the proper people are getting their proper share of the estates.
Okay. You have to -- I know you have to do renunciations for all the heirs. But after that part, it seems that there's -- we do not have to do all of these steps in the process. Some of this I think you can bypass.
Well, again by bypassing the estates you run the risk of making sure that certain individual members who are entitled to their share do not get it, but we have resolutions for that. We have the ability to file 20 a petition for citation to cite individuals who are not cooperating and to get their cooperation if they're not going to. That's the department that I had, which is the legal department. But by bypassing these intermediary estates, you run the risk of the Commonwealth not getting their taxes and you run the risk of individuals not getting their share, so we try to avoid them.
-- do -- I hear you and I still think we can do a lot of this by renunciation. And I also think some of this is not taxable anyway. I would really look forward to talking to you more about this. I think this is an incredibly complicated and long process --
-- that there are probably things that we can do internally to streamline it. And in the meantime, we have all this great outreach that's going to happen to get people to even write the most basic wills. I feel like it's something that we can overcome here in Philadelphia if we have all hands on deck, and I know that we're all ready to be here to work with you. Thank you.
Any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)
All right, Mr. Sabatina. I want to thank you for taking time out of your schedule for your testimony and also we just want to give a shout out to -- where's Joel? You didn't bring Joel Williams today, no?
I don't understand, but give Joel my regards as well. And we definitely look forward to working with you and following up on this most critical issue regarding equity and generational wealth and making sure that we address the issue of tangled title. So just thank you for your leadership. Okay, sir?
All right. You're welcome. Ms. Loughead, will you please call the next department please for public testimony.
Yes. The Office of Homeless Services. (Witnesses approached Witness table.)
Good morning. How are you doing today, Adam? How are you? MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: Good morning, Council President, members of Council. I'm Adam Thiel, Managing Director, joined by our Deputy Managing Director for Health and Human Services Crystal Yates-Gale and of course David Holloman, our Director for the Office of Homeless Services.
Thank you very much. So I'm going to get right into it. I think the last time we were here we wanted to address the mismanagement of how contracts were -- the accounting and contract process and how that whole fiasco resulted in the investigation from the Office of Inspector General. And so, we know since that time there's been a press release to talk -- press conference talking about no wrongdoing done which is okay, and I think the investigation is still going on. But my line of questioning is what are we going to do different to make sure that this doesn't happen in the future? I know it was kind of like the last person said, we did everything we could to help people. So in the effort and in the spirit of helping people, the rules go out the window. Now, I know if that was Kenyatta Johnson, right, if I wanted to say in the spirit of addressing gun violence in the City of Philadelphia or addressing the issue of institutional and systematic racism in the City of Philadelphia, all the rules go out the window and I'm just going to rob Peter to pay Paul, I think I would probably be in a different situation, right. And so, I just want to get an idea what are we doing differently, what systems are going to be in place to make sure when the Administration came, they asked us for a significant investment during our midyear transfer. And all we asked was we see some accounting defects, and before we send this money over we don't want to be complicit in anything, we just want to see a plan in good faith. And so, what are we doing differently and what has been done to address the accounting practices as well as making sure that as we move forward, we're just being good fiscal stewards of the taxpayer dollars? MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President, appreciate the question and we certainly understand Council's concerns and appreciate the Councilmembers work to bring these matters to our attention originally. Obviously, a couple of us here, really all of us here, can't necessarily speak to how we got in the place that we're in.
Adam, if you don't mind, I know you're the boss, right. Is it okay if we talked to Executive Director David Holloman since it was under his watch and he was actually in the middle of it? And I think even moving forward he's probably going to be reporting to you how as the point person he went about rightsizing the process, respectfully if that's okay, Adam? MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President, I think the question that you're asking is about what we are going to do in the future, what we are doing now in the present and what we are doing in the future. And I think that question is probably respectfully best answered by our Deputy Managing Director or me. We are currently in search of new leadership for the Office of Homeless Services and --
So it won't be Mr. Holloman moving forward? MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: Mr. Holloman, right now is the Interim Director. We are currently doing a national search, and we are also bringing aboard in addition to the detailed financial investigation that you know is under way, we are also bringing on additional independent parties to look at how we can change and rebuild the fiscal and management practices of the Office of Homeless Services, which is a critical agency for our entire City going forward. So I think to the extent we want to talk about the future --
Yes. MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: -- that may or may not be a question for Mr. Holloman. If we want to talk some more about how we got here, at least our current understanding, we can certainly talk to him, and our Inspector General is also --
I would like to talk about how we move forward, right. And I'm just saying if he's going to be the person, it's kind of like you're speaking for him unless he's not going to be available to do this work anymore. That's why I was really looking forward to David saying, hey, I've been here, I know the system in and out, here's the gameplan in terms of how we're going to move forward, here's the things that I put in place that this won't happen anymore. I think the body at least deserves to hear from him. And you can also chime in and be supportive of him. But at the end of the day, the buck stops with him and then he'll report to you as his boss. I mean, I guess if that's the hierarchy and the protocol works. I mean, he's kind of shaking his head like, yes, that's correct. So I think it would be prudent to this body that he will be allowed to just answer the questions on what he's going to do. And if you think he's going in the wrong direction, maybe whisper in his ear and say, no, don't say that or say this or we're going to help you get to the next level conversation, Adam. And I don't want to do the back and forth with you, Adam. I'm just trying to get some answers from the gentleman that's running the ship right now as the Interim Director. MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President, I certainly respect that and have no issues. I think Mr. Holloman has provided dedicated service to this agency for a long time. He continues to do so. And we certainly expect to continue to have his expertise going forward, albeit not in this current role as the Director.
Gotcha. MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: It is also, I think, important to note that we are all hands on deck to help fix this agency forward. The work is vital. It's critical. There are dedicated women and men working in this agency every day and in addition to us who you see here, we are bringing on other independent consultants. We have our Inspector General, we have other folks who are looking into the financial matters. So we are -- the short answer to your question is we are changing essentially everything about how OHS does business except for its vital mission. That said, if you want to hear from Director Holloman about some of the things we are doing now --
That's all I was asking, sir. MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: -- or Deputy Managing Director Yates-Gale, who is personally reviewing every invoice right now for services as one example, we can certainly do that.
Thank you. Mr. David, how are you doing, sir? Hope all is well. It's good to see you again. And I know David just so you know for the record. David has helped us in a variety of different constituent services, so this isn't a thing of us -- it's not personal, but at the same time we have a responsibility to do what we need to do from making sure that we're fiscally sound as it relates to this particular department of moving the City of Philadelphia forward. So in working with your team, David, what are you looking at for the time that you will be in this position moving forward? What are the key things that you're going to be doing differently, what systems are you going to be putting in place to make sure that we're moving the Office of Homeless Services forward in a fiscally sound way? Just a real simple question.
Good morning, Council President and members of City Council. For the record, my name is David Holloman, Interim Executive Director for the Office of Homeless Services. Let me first start by saying that we will not move forward with any contract that does not have budgetary authority. That's first and foremost. Since I took this position over in October, the first thing we did immediately was look at every contract that was overly committed and immediately again started from January 1st moving from a calendar year contract to immediately getting back to Fiscal Year '25 by administering six-month contracts with the aim to start City fiscal contracting year July 1st.
In terms of the process separate from the contracting, let's talk about the accounting practices in terms of your team and how y'all move forward. What systems will be in place that will be different now than it was before just around the accounting?
Absolutely. I think first and foremost, again we have to stay within our budgetary means. I'm someone who loves to help everyone, but again I understand that we're demonstrating with limited resources. And so, the first and foremost thing is that we need to identify those programs that get the most bang for our buck with staying within the budgetary limits, and that means programs again that are funded. Most of the General Fund obligation is for one year. And so, we have to think strategically by setting up a contingency plan if federal funds or state funds are not available to continue to support those programs. However, we need to be very diligent in our approach of looking at programs that get the most bang for our buck and staying within the budgetary means.
Thank you very much. In terms of -- now, Adam, you might chime in on this one. In terms of the triage centers, what is the role that the Office of Homelessness Services will play in terms of the triage centers? I know we just opened up one -- well, we're expanding one in Fairmount, right. And there's a combination of -- is it addiction services-related or just for homeless individuals? Can the two of you just elaborate on what that plan looks like? Will there be support for those who may have addictions, those who may need support when it comes to getting their lives back together with any types of substance abuse or is it just generally related to those who just may be homeless? MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President, I appreciate the question. I'm going to let our Deputy Managing Director for Health and Human Services Crystal Yates- Gale answer it.
-- Councilmembers. My name is Crystal Yates-Gale. I'm the Deputy Managing Director of Health and Human Services. And the answer to the question of whether the Office of Homeless Services will play a vital role in the wellness initiative that we're doing around substance use and chronic homelessness in Philadelphia, they absolutely will be at the table along with all of our other partners and agencies that have a stake in making sure that we serve our residents well.
Okay. Just as it relates to the expansion of 48 beds in Fairmount, what's the actual name of the actual facility? I used to be a security guard there a long, long time ago. What's the name of it?
So the previous facility's name was Philadelphia Nursing Home --
Okay. And just give me an idea in terms of -- I have to ask on behalf of my colleague Councilmember Jeffrey Jay Young -- what is the community outreach plan as it relates to just letting folks know that we're expanding, this is what we're doing just so we can separate fact from fiction in terms of what they may see printed versus the facts that you may call me and say, hey, Council President, here's the facts of what's actually happening? And so, what's the plan just to reach out to the wider community? And will there be a community meeting where people can chime in and say, hey, what is this going to look like down the line because there's a lot of rumors? I call it some of it may be fiction, some of it may be fact, but until there's a wider community meeting in that particular part of Fairmount so people can know, then at least they will be kind of rest assured that we're crossing our T's and dotting our I's and everybody is comfortable as it relates to what's actually coming.
So I'll start. I'm sure the Managing Director will finish. But the two of us have met with every person that has reached out to us via email or telephone to have a meeting about our plans for the wellness initiative. We are more than happy to meet with the community in the Fairmount area and would love to talk to them and dispel some of the rumors. We also conducted a charrette or design-thinking exercise with many stakeholders, including health systems, some of the advocacy groups, some of the providers and the homeless providers and behavioral health providers to meet to get the answers to some of the questions about what are we missing, what is it that we don't know that we think we know. So we're more than willing to meet with anybody to talk about these programs. MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President, Councilmembers, with respect to Philly Home at Girard, the former Philadelphia Nursing Home, since 2014 there have actually been somewhere between 100 and 300 residents of that facility onsite. So for almost a decade that facility has been used as a shelter for unhoused individuals. And as one might expect, those folks come to the facility with a variety of needs. They are individuals, they are human beings, these are folks who have become unhoused through a variety of mechanisms. And it is a difficult challenge for us to face and that we don't necessarily have other places for these folks to go. Just last night we actually had two apartment buildings in the City that experienced fires or other incidents, so we currently are operating a shelter at West Philadelphia High School. These are not uncommon occurrences. We all understand the need and we know Council's been very supportive of the need for temporary shelters for unhoused individuals. And what we are doing and for the record, it is now 90 beds that we have, 90 additional beds that we have available --
90 additional, not 48? MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: Yeah. It was 48 the other day. It's 90.
Okay. MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: We recognize the need. We have certainly heard from folks in many communities around the City that we want as a city to have better places for folks to go for long- term care treatment and housing than our streets or vacant buildings or some of the other places where they are currently found. And we are aggressively moving out to do that by expanding existing services at existing facilities either City-operated, City-owned or with existing City contractors and providers, even as we create the plan that we have committed to sitting down and showing you all as we are doing our due diligence on larger facilities for long-term wellness to address the gaps that we have all talked about over the years.
Thank you very much. MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: Specific to that facility, I think you've seen we've invested a lot. Just over there the other day, again we're sensitive to the community concerns. There is a very -- the security force over there, we have a security force inside that perimeter, they are on point. Very impressed by the folks working over there. Very impressed by the providers working over there. These are credible, experienced, diverse providers that we have over there to serve the 200 essentially longer term residents, plus folks that we are bringing in who have a need for these expanded services. We've done the landscaping. I mean really it's -- I think the alternative to what we're doing there with this investment and truly ensuring that this facility provides the dignity that Mayor Parker has been very clear as we are helping folks get into the longer term care continuum, we want to do that with dignity. I think that the facility is in better shape probably than it's ever been. We are continuing to invest in it to make sure that we have a place for folks in the interim while we are building this larger continuum of care at our wellness facilities around the City.
Okay. And this last question before I release to my members, in terms of addressing the -- give me the case management support for individuals who's coming for long term. Is methadone available for them? Is obviously the Narcan set up, the fentanyl treatment? I heard something about individuals who now when they have these wounds, that's supposed to be totally in some cases very, very delicate and difficult to deal with. Will those types of services be there to assist individuals and are those services provided there different than places like the Outley House that's in my District in Southwest Philadelphia? So what would be the difference between services that's provided at the Outley House versus services that's provided at this particular facility? MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President, you're right on it. We need to provide that full range of services. Folks are different. They have different needs. For a couple of us here who have been health care providers, if there's one thing we've learned over the years it's treat the patient and make sure that you have what is needed for that particular patient. So, yes, when we're talking about expanded services, we're talking about ensuring that medication-assisted treatment is available, that wound care is available to a certain point. If the need is beyond that point, then again we are building this ecosystem of facilities so we can get folks to the right place, for the right care, for the right time until they are back on their feet and can have access to economic opportunity. The range of services in the ecosystem that exists today, it's different depending on the facility. We know that we don't have the capacity in certain areas and that's why we're really working aggressively to build out what we have, even as we work on this vision and this plan for a more comprehensive set of wellness centers in the City.
And just one other question: When it comes to partnering with longer term treatment facilities like Eagleville, Evergreen, are we thinking about having them at the table for the person that needs to do 60-, 90-day treatment, right, away from the City of Philadelphia? How is that plan? And I would think that would be part of your plan for folks who really need long-term treatment. Then also are we looking at partnering with First Judicial District Treatment Court where folks may come from now, and I'm talking about Kensington now and just in general, but I know once we clean up Kensington and address their issues as opposed to people going to jail, they may go to Treatment Court where it's mandatory treatment and when your treatment is done, your record gets expunged. But it's based upon you doing group therapy, making sure that your overall treatment approach is completed. And so, give me an idea of how does that part work in terms of the overall long-term plan. MANAGING DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President, you're exactly right. We are -- and this is why it is so complicated to build this connected ecosystem of care, which right now there are various aspects of it which do exist. They're not necessarily connected. And if there's one thing we've heard over and over, we're losing folks in the handoffs. So what we are trying to do, and this is why it's taking a little while, although I would say we're doing this at lightning speed considering it's never been done anywhere else in the country to join this system up in the way that we're contemplating. Yes, we are looking at other partners and other facilities that can treat and take care of patients for wherever they are in their continuum of long-term care treatment and housing. And as far as the Treatment Court, our colleagues in the Office of Public Safety are absolutely talking with First Judicial District and other partners, the DA's Office and others, about how to accomplish that because we know that's a critical aspect even if we provide this capacity that we know is needed, we need to have ways to get folks into it. What we're seeing is even as we're building this out, we're seeing folks who are a lot of interest in what we're building among folks who have these needs. So we are hopeful that as we build it they will come.
Okay. Thank you very much, Adam. And I look forward to the plan. I know it is a big undertaking, so I do commend you and your team for actually going and actually addressing it because it's probably one of the things where you want to pick and choose things to address, you go into it already knowing you're changing a mindset and a culture of individuals that have some very, very dire issues to be quite frank. Just, David, one last question. I know part of the issue and the concern was when we address the accounting practices as it relates to us sending money to OHS, I know you said you want to do an evaluation of certain organizations that may be doing better work than others, how are you handling that? Because one of the main concerns were we also want to shut money off to organizations that's supporting the homelessness, right. That was the conundrum. On one end we can't be complicit in terms of any types of funds not being used in the proper manner, right, and not being used in terms of good fiscal sound accounting policies, but we also don't want to be in a predicament where you're holding money from a particular nonprofit organization that's actually out there helping people day-in and day-out. So how are we dealing with that last part, David? And that's all I have.
Yeah. Can you hear me? Absolutely, you're absolutely right. We want to make sure, one, that we're paying all of the providers that are rendering great services. The one thing that we're doing immediately and is continuing to do right now is evaluating all of the programs and providers that are actually doing really, really great work. And I would say the majority do a really, really great job, but there are areas that we need to improve upon. We hope with our new boots- on-the-ground strategy that we will, one, provide technical assistance but identify those providers who are not meeting the standards that folks are truly deserving to have. The other thing that we wanted to do also, and I know we talked about this last, is to RFP out our contracts to providers and make it a competitive field to make sure that we're paying for good quality services throughout our entire system.
Thank you, David. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Jamie Gauthier.
Thank you, Council President. Good morning, Managing Director Thiel, Deputy Managing Director Yates-Gale and Interim Director Holloman. And thanks to the Council President for the great line of questioning about what we're changing from a process perspective to get to a different place. Despite the recent controversies that were noted, we cannot deny the fact that the Office of Homeless Services fills a critical need in the City. And as homelessness becomes a more urgent and widespread issue, we need to ensure that the department has the tools it needs to serve our neighbors who don't have a place to call home. It is true that over the last year as a result of her very thorough and attentive work, the Majority Leader uncovered some very troubling issues with OHS spending. These problems are being investigated by the Inspector General and an independent accounting firm retained by the Mayor. We do recognize that some progress is being made as we heard. OHS fell behind paying its vendors due to the outside need for beds and additional security for shelters that arose during the pandemic. And at least at this point, 75 percent of those vendors have been paid. However, much more needs to be done and at the conclusion of the investigations, we will need to see more transparency, accountability as well as good reporting from the department. At the same time, the problem of homelessness has not been put on pause while the investigations are ongoing. Very recently the 3rd District was in the news because of a fire that broke out in the Malcolm X Park bathroom just as an example. We strongly suspect that this fire broke out due to unhoused people trying to live in the bathrooms, which has been happening for over a year now. And as the summer approaches, we are likely going to see more people living in tents around the City. And all of these individuals need and deserve our help as well as access to housing. So while we get the office back on the right financial track, it is important that we don't allow the most vulnerable population in our city, the unhoused, to suffer through no fault of their own. And with that I have a few questions about the budget proposal. OHS is asking for an additional $16.1 million for FY25 to maintain its current levels of service. Can you paint a picture of what will happen to homeless services in the City if OHS does not get this money? How many fewer individuals will be served without this additional funding? How many organizations will lose their contracts without this additional funding? What neighborhoods and areas would be hit the hardest? And if you are provided the additional $16.1 million, can you tell us how this money will be allocated, what services or contracts will it fund and how many people will it serve? And I can repeat those if you didn't get them all.
Thank you for your question, Councilwoman. As you have stated, homelessness is on the rise. Based on national -- we're seeing a percent rise in 8 unsheltered homelessness in the 9 City of Philadelphia. That $16.1 10 million that we're requesting is to 11 provide and maintain current levels 12 of services. Any funding that does not support that -- we're talking about we had a contingency plan of 1, 2 and 3, their doomsday budget will allow us to take off anywhere between the 400 to 500 beds, and these are emergency and temporary housing beds that support people who directly are unsheltered on the street. As you are aware, many of the programs that were established in the last couple of years we bought up for seniors where we have seen an elevation of more seniors starting to experience homelessness as a result of, one, affordable housing, the lack of access to nursing homes and other levels of care. And fortunately, the Office of Homeless Services stepped in and provided a critical need services. And so, all of those options would be on the table. And so, we estimate again with a reduction in funding anywhere between 400 to 500 beds. We know as we're preparing to submit our HUD point-in-time data to HUD by this Friday, we believe that the numbers are up. And so, that number is not going to go away as you had indicated. Homelessness does not stay steady. People have complicated lives. And I wish that we can come to a point where we're not talking about people who are experiencing homelessness.
If you know anything about where you think that point-in-time number will be, can you talk about that and how that has changed? Can I ask you to expound upon the first, second and third contingency plans that you were drawing out, what does that look like and who and where would that impact?
Yeah, absolutely. In 2023 our point-in- time unsheltered count was 706 individuals on the street. We believe right now that number is anywhere between 900 to 1,000. We're finalizing the details, but that's what it's looking like right now. Budget Cut Scenario 1, as we have stated we were projected to be $5 million over budget for FY24. With some of the plans that we put in place by reducing some of the contract that we're underspending, we were able to hopefully shave off that $5 million. But most of those cuts will come directly from emergency and temporary housing as I laid out before. We took an approach of reduction of contracts that we were seeing as underspending, which many of our providers are underspending because they're dealing with personnel challenges just like the City of Philadelphia. Two, there has been a number of rising costs due to inflation. We have seen food costs go up. We have seen just fringe benefits go up in a number of our providers, but we also have took a straight across- the-board cut, which is about anywhere between 11 to 12 percent, and that gets us to where I was saying about 400- to 500-bed capacity, if we had to see a reduction of that $5 million that we were requesting in the midyear transfer. I want to be very clear. In FY25, we were projected to lose $9.6 million. We asked for that additional 5 to maintain current levels of services. And so, we put a scenario in place that will reflect not getting the total 16, not getting the 9.6 that is due to come out and not getting the 5 million, so there's various scenario cuts that lays out the variation of how many beds will be taken offline.
So just to put a finer point on that, if you are not able to get the 16.1 million that OHS has requested, at a time when both the point-in-time count has gone up and where we're planning to do a sweep in Kensington, we would lose access to up to 500 beds that could serve as temporary and emergency shelter for people; am I understanding that correctly?
Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you, Council President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes -- how much did you say you're going to lose number-wise? Did you say 5 million in FY25?
In FY25, we were scheduled based on the previous five-year spending plan to have a budget reduction of $9.6 million.