2097 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA CAPITAL PROGRAM & BUDGET HEARINGS BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, March 1, 1999 9:30 a.m. - - - Bill No. 990026 - Amending Chapter 19-1800 of The Philadelphia Code entitled "School Tax Authorization". . . Bill No. 990027 - Amending Chapter 19-1800 of The Philadelphia Code entitled "School Tax Authorization". . . Bill No. 990028 - Amending Chapter 19-1800 of The Philadelphia Code entitled "School Tax Authorization". . . PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA, Chair COUNCILWOMAN AUGUSTA A. CLARK COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILMAN W. THACHER LONGSTRETH COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO CHARLES MCPHERSON, Chief Financial Officer - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2098 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. I N D E X David Hornbeck, Superintendent of Schools 2099 Floyd Alston, President Board of Education 2099 Gerald Santilli, Acting Associate Managing 2133 Director of Finance Ted Skirski, Acting Director of Design. . . . 2203 and Construction John Lombardi, Director of Transportation . . 2208 Germaine Ingram, Chief of Staff . . . . . . . 2213 Tom McGlenchy, Acting Assistant . . . . . . . 2222 Managing Director for Business Operations Jack Meyers, Director of Financial. . . . . . 2232 Planning and Analysis Naomi Gubernick, Family Resources Network . . 2314 Jackie Sparkman, General Counsel. . . . . . . 2320 John McLees (position not identified) . . . . 2364 Marjorie Adler, Human Resources . . . . . . . 2375 2099 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. P R O C E E D I N G S
Good morning, everyone. This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole. Today we will hear testimony regarding Bill No.'s 990026, 990027, and 990028. Good morning, Mr. Hornbeck. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Thank you very much, Madam President. My name is David Hornbeck. I'm the Superintendent of Schools. And with your permission, I would like to turn the opening comments over to the President of the Board of Education, Mr. Floyd Alston.
Good morning. Good morning City Council President Verna and members of City Council, friends and guests. I am Floyd W. Alston, President of the Board of Education of the School District of Philadelphia. On behalf of my colleagues on the Board, it is a pleasure to be here once again to give you a brief overview of the operations of the 2100 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. School District of Philadelphia, a sort of state-of-the schools summary. I will leave it to our superintendent, David Hornbeck, and his senior management to provide a more detailed look at what is going on in our schools. Before I begin, I'd like to introduce my colleagues who have joined me here today for this presentation and who, like myself, will make themselves available to answer any questions or address any concerns. Behind me, I am pleased present: Pedro Ramos, who is the Vice President under the Board; Miss Chris Brown; Andrew Farnesi, Esquire; and Mr. Jack Lurie. Oh, I'm sorry, and Miss Dorothy Rush is right behind me. Any others that I don't see? Thank you very much. These are our very hard-working Board members. Since we were here last spring, our district has continued to make many positive changes on behalf of the students in this city's public schools.
Excuse me, Mr. Alston, can we have a copy of your testimony? 2101 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
You know, we had requested anybody testifying today to have copies of their testimony in my office a minimum of 48 hours prior to the hearing. And I come in this morning and see testimony, and I don't even know -- from Mr. Santilli, and I don't know whether it was distributed to everybody. Does everybody have a copy of Mr. Santilli's testimony? I don't believe anybody received that either. If we have copies of Mr. Santilli's testimony, I would like copies of his testimony to be distributed. Do you have it? Councilman Cohen, do you have it?
I've just been advised by 2102 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. my staff that copies of testimony are en route right now.
Well, I suggest that you proceed, but as I said, in the future, I would really appreciate it if we could have the testimony a minimum of 48 hours prior to your testifying.
I appreciate your comments, President Verna, and we'll be sure to take that into consideration. I apologize for them not being here timely.
Since we were here last spring, our district has continued to make many positive changes on behalf of the students in this city's public schools. I remain optimistic about the future of the school system and know that a lot of hard work has been done. I believe we have developed positive momentum and that we must keep moving forward for the sake of our children and the City. We have made enormous strides in difficult times and amid daunting challenges. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. This board strives to keep its eye or eyes on the prize -- an excellent education for every student. Within an environment of inadequate funding, a very public debate, and an increasingly intense political climate, we know that to achieve meaningful long-term success, our children must a great education as their foundation. That is what we have been trying to provide for them and for future generations. I want to acknowledge the multifaceted support that the City Council has provided our schools and our children over the last year. We look forward to that continued partnership, realizing that we may not always agree on the details of how to run the schools, but also believing that we share a common goal. As we fight for an education system which prepares children to be decision-makers of the new millennium, this board and administration have had to throw out the status quo. We have sometimes brought criticism and controversy to our doorstep, and we have been put in a decision where we had to make some very tough decisions. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. this big and implement systemic reform, you expect that it will produce challenges to every member of the broader community -- educators, business people, students, and parents. Sometimes we have struggled with those challenges. We know that we have made the decisions that some members of City Council have questioned us about. And to be honest, sometime in that fight, we have made mistakes. I can say, however, that we have tried to do what is best for the students. The budget we present today represents that commitment. It is a work in progress, and we remain flexible to make changes as we open up our budget review process to the broader community. Over the next month or so, our board will offer several opportunities for the public to make comments and offer suggestions about our spending plan for the next fiscal year. As we incorporate helpful suggestions and react to situational changes, there may be some adjustments and fluctuations in our numbers. You may have read last week, for example, that our current deficit figures have increased. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. commitment to giving public charter schools a chance to develop as alternatives to traditional public-school settings while we work to improve this educational system for all children. This board has approved the most operating charter schools in the State, and a dozen more applicants may receive final approval to open this coming September. Next year's total cost to operate all of these schools will be $40 million. This money comes from the same operating budget without offsetting savings. I'd like to take a few minutes to talk a bit about some of the things we have continued to work on over the past year. There's substantial evidence which clearly confirms that we are headed in the right direction. Philadelphia is one of the few urban districts which has made significant strides in improving academic achievement. Test scores continue to improve across the District as more and more schools and students are improving their performances in the core areas of reading, math, and science. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. achievement is being reflected, not just our own citywide achievement tests, but also on a statewide test. I notice a feeling of excitement when I visit classrooms all over the City, and both teachers and students are feeding off that enthusiasm.
Not only teachers, but parent and principals now have more meaningful input into designing what teaching and learning will look like within their school buildings. Since we know that the jobs of the future will require computer literacy, we have continued to increase access to the information highway by putting more and more computers in schools and classrooms. Our students-to-computer ratio has been cut in half over the last several years. We battle the perception that our district is a bloated bureaucracy. Reducing administrative expenses continues to be a primary focus our decision-making. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. tighter management, productivity enhancement, and squeezing every penny's worth of value out of every dollar we spend. The latest evidence which shows our commitment to actual progress in managing our budget is contained in a letter I recently received from Richard Smoot, Chairman of the Greater Philadelphia First Partnership for Reform. Their analysis shows that the audit commissioned by the State legislators overestimated potential savings in extreme proportions. As you know, this district has been audited time and time again at the District, City, and State levels. GPF's independent analysis of the Price Waterhouse report showed that a reasonable savings impact would be $81 million, $50 million of which our district has already included in its planning. GPF's independence goes a long way to clear the air of unfair tax on spending by the School District. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. the Price Waterhouse report would severely undercut our mission to educate children. If I could cite just one example, it would be the recommendation to save up to $20 million a year by eliminating school health services. This recommendation suggests that we instead pursue voluntary donations the health-care industry to cover those costs. Research has consistently shown that children who are not healthy will not learn as well as children who are. When children come to school hungry, have chronic diseases which remain untreated because their parents have no health insurance or have to worry about where they will lay their head each night because the family is homeless. They are not going to perform at the high academic levels. Yet, it is precisely these types of problems which our school health professionals address on a daily basis. When you talk about taking away those services with no firm commitment on how to replace them, what kind of message are we sending to our school children and their families? /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. the school buildings? We might save millions of dollars, but how many children might we lose in the process? Another area of challenge for the District is a teacher shortage. These dedicated professionals on the front lines of education reform are a critical part of achieving our goals. Yet at the same time, our student population continues to grow. We face a shortage of good people, especially in some hard-to-fill positions. Our district must aggressively compete for best and the brightest students graduating from colleges and universities each summer. Teaching as a vocation must compete with other potential career choices. For the young men and women who do choose education, we must compete against point surrounding districts which pay higher salaries and are perceived to provide fewer classroom challenges. Every year, we must fight the battle of finding enough qualified teachers to stand at the head of the classrooms. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. teaching force of 12,000, to the parent of a child who has a series of substitutes throughout the school year, even one vacancy is too many. This is just one of the many challenges we face. Yet the consequences of our failure to speak out and work on behalf of our children are grim. The generation of children in our schools now is one which will grow up to determine the course of this city in the next century.
We have all had to work together to ensure that they are prepared to step into those leadership positions. Children are this city's most vulnerable, most voiceless, yet most valuable citizens. They are depending on adults like us to be their safety net. If we don't speak out on their behalf? I believe the best way to ensure that success for all students becomes a reality in our lifetime is to work together to continue the job we set out to do, to bring fruition to a vision of educational reform. In spite of the challenges we have faced, we continue to believe that all children can and will achieve. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. lost confidence in the ability of public schools to ever change, this administration, with a lot of help, including your help, has taken this system and turned it into moving in the right direction. With your support, we must continue that progress. Our children deserve nothing less. Thank you. I'd be pleased to address any questions or comments you may have.
I think perhaps we can hear from Mr. Santilli and then from Mr. Hornbeck, and then we will proceed with the question-and-answer portion of our program.
Thank you, Madam President and members of Council. For the record, my name is David Hornbeck, and I am Philadelphia's Superintendent of Schools. I am pleased again to join you on behalf of the 213,000 Philadelphia school children. At the District, we have one fundamental objective, and it is that 95 percent of our students reach world-class achievement standards within one student generation so that they can be successful in college and/or in the 21st century jobs. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. necessary in order for our city to sustain the economic turnaround that we've seen in Philadelphia in recent years. In pursuit of our objective, we set down specific performance targets every two year for the District as a whole, our clusters, and for each of the District's regular schools. This permits us to know whether we are on target and to report how we are progressing to the community. No school district in America of any size other diversity has a more ambitious achievement goal, nor a more open process for keeping the public informed. As we pursue this challenging but vital objective, there are two myths that are significant obstacles to full success. The first is the myth of low expectations; that is the widespread belief that poor kids and youngsters of color, students for whom English is not their first language, and children with disabilities cannot learn at high levels. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. sums of money on administrative and other costs rather than focussing resources on instruction. I begin by commenting on our students' achievement. The goal of 95 percent of our students achieving at world-class levels within twelve years, one student generation, is at least as ambitious as President Kennedy's goal in 1960 of reaching the moon in ten years. Two years after the President set that goal for the nation, NASA successfully sent John Glenn into space, a necessary first step toward the ultimate goal. We too have completed our first two-year period, and we exceeded the District-wide performance targets set by the Board in 1996. Just as there was numerous space flights and other milestones en route to America's being the first nation to reach the moon, we have numerous milestones in front of us en route to our goal of being the first big American city in which virtually all students achieve at high levels. We have provided you with the details of our student achievement. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. had a very large increase in the students taking the test, a phenomenon that usually drags scores down. Moreover, we are pleased to note that the improvement was experienced even by students with home school districts historically failed. There was a very large increase in the proportion of both non-native English-speaking students taking the test and students with disabilities; and in both instances, very significant -- even dramatic -- increases in achievement. Moreover, 63 percent of our highest poverty schools exceeded their performance targets, and 63 percent of the schools in which there's relatively little poverty also exceeded their performance targets. The facts bear out our conviction that all children, regardless of color, language, income, or disability, improve their performance based on what goes on in the classroom. A total of 241 of our 249 schools in the accountability system made achievement improvements. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. examples here and across America of students, classes, and schools succeeding in spite of challenging personal circumstances. But nowhere has success been brought to scale. Our students, teachers, and principals are en route to making that happen. 145 of our schools exceeded their performance targets, and those 145 schools have more than 103,000 students and 6,000 teachers. As wonderful as the individual stories are of the performance of individual students, classes, and schools, the real story is that our teachers and principals in those 145 schools brought success to scale by their hard and smart work.
, Boston, or Denver. That fact is the most important indicator of District's dramatic success to date. The most potent time tools we have to establish this kind of success are careful assessment of student progress and the willingness to bring real accountability to public education. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. specific student academic performance targets for its districts, clusters, and schools, but also in having an accountability system of rewards, supports, and penalties that flow directly from how well the District, cluster, and school teams measure up to the targets. Surprisingly, there has been controversy around accountability and even criticism of the test we chose. Against that backdrop, there are three additional points to be made regarding student achievement and our system of accountability: The first point is to note the Philadelphia results on the Pennsylvania State System of Assessment. Those results are important because they provide an independent measure of the District's progress, using an independently- developed test and method of assessing progress. The PSSA results from 1996 through 1998 show the same trends as our SAT-9 data. There are dramatic increases in participation. These large participation increases make our increased achievement, again, especially noteworthy. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. State test results for Philadelphia students show a pattern of increased achievement across grades and subjects. Indeed, the same schools showed progress on both the State's and District's assessment system. The second point is that the SAT-9, which is a key part of our accountability system, is increasingly the test of choice across the United States. , Tucson, Washington, and in the states of California, Virginia, West Virginia, and Arizona, to name a few. We were one of the first districts in the country to adopt the SAT-9. The City can be proud that we are frequently in the vanguard of many school reform initiatives, which are leading to measurable improvements in student achievement. And, finally, the third point I want to make is that the District has convened an independent review panel of nationally-recognized testing and accountability experts to ensure that we continue to improve our accountability system and to assure data integrity. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. conclusions: "The general goal and approach are excellent. " "While initially only educators are being held accountable, the plan is to hold both student and educators accountable simultaneously for the achievement that they produce together. Many other states and districts do not have this type of symmetry in their approach to accountability, holding either educators accountable and not students, or vice versa. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. who are not tested pose a threat to validity in any test-based accountability system. Experience with many accountability systems in the past have shown that results can be inflated by the selective exclusion of students from testing. . Student non-participation in assessment and accountability is often a tremendous problem in large urban areas. " The final point I would make on the achievement front is that no school district in American is making more progress than we, and few are making as much. " Chicago, for example, is often cited as a model to which other cities can aspire. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. the past years. However, many people are not aware that while Chicago's achievement growth is positive, Philadelphia's gains at the elementary level are even greater in important ways. To illustrate, over the past three years at the elementary, the proportion of students at or above grade level has increased by 34 percent in reading and 43 percent in math; while the increase in Chicago measured only 11 percent and 19 percent in math. Our rate of increase has more than doubled that of Chicago in those all-important early years.
Today, more than 40 percent of Philadelphia's fourth-graders read at or above grade level compared to percent of 16 Chicago's third-graders. We simply don't have to 17 play second fiddle to Chicago. 18 The District will continue to work to 19 refine our assessment and accountability system. 20 Meanwhile I hope all citizens of the City will 21 join in celebrating the progress of our children. 22 How have we managed to achieve our 23 significant progress? It didn't happen by 24 accident. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. system, and initiatives like full-day kindergarten and more books and more computers. I want to express a very explicit and warm thank you to you, the members of Council, for the significant you've played in the accomplishments of our students. Two years ago, the Mayor and City Council supported the School Board and this administration in refusing to make further school-based cuts in response to continuing underfunding. This took courage and resolve that is remarkable. Last year, you stayed the course. There is no way that the achievement growth in the past two years could have happened if we had continued the turmoil and agony of further cuts each spring. I applaud you for your leadership. We could not have done it without you. Having presented the evidence against the myth of low expectations, I turn now to address the myth of wasted resources and bloated bureaucracy. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. area; that is, the other 61 school districts in Southeastern Pennsylvania. These districts are able to spend, on average, $1500 more per student than we are; that amounts to $45,000 more per classroom when comparing opportunities for our children with those available to suburban children. That places us at a decided disadvantage when recruiting teachers, administrators, and other staff. Our children have fewer computers and books, our facilities are in worse shape. Thousands of our children must purchase tokens for bus transportation, spending about $9 per week per child from often very meager family resources. Our classes have many more students. We are unable to give the extra academic assistance to many children who need it, either during the school year other during the summer. Then there's the question of how we spend what we have. Our commitment is to place more dollars in instruction where they impact on students, and fewer dollars into other expenditures. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. books, computers, staff training, leadership development, and more time for school-based staff to work together. We have taken many steps towards those goals. We went to Greater Philadelphia First and asked them to analyze our non-instructional expenditures and to recommend us where we could save money or otherwise use resources more effectively. The Management and Productivity Task Force they established recommended $45 million worth of savings that they thought could be achieved over five years. After two years, we were ahead of schedule, having saved $29 million. The Task Force is about to issue their third-year report on our accomplishments. It will not quite reach the full $45 million, but it will come close in three years, not five. A second illustration of our administrative cost-cutting efforts is the letter to which President Alston referred a little while ago related to the Price Waterhouse Coopers (PWC) operational review. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. combination of reducing costs and through the collection of additional revenue. After an independent review of the PWC findings, the Management and Productivity Task Force has informed us that the potential is about $81 million, not $577 million over the same five years. It also notes that the School District has already incorporated $51 million of the $81 million into our budget projections. That leaves only $30 million to be achieved over five years on average of about $6 million for year. Now, 30 million is a far cry from 577 million. Nevertheless, 30 million is 30 million.
Every time someone has made a legitimate suggestion that helped save money, we pursue it. And to that end, before this budget is adopted in May, we will find several million dollars more through additional administrative savings. A third major fact about our successful efforts to manage the financial affairs of the District more effectively is revealed in a recent report, not of the District, but of the Pennsylvania State Department of Education. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Philadelphia spends more of each dollar on instruction than is spent on average in the other 500 school district in the Commonwealth. Moreover, we also spend more of each dollar on instruction than is spent on average in the school district comprising Bucks, Chester, and Montgomery, Delaware, and Montgomery Counties. And that's true despite the fact that we have expenditures such as our 350+ police officers, major transportation responsibilities for non-public schools, and significant maintenance costs resulting from aging facilities that far outstrip needs among our suburban colleagues. The above facts provide clear evidence that the myth of wasted resources and bloated bureaucracy is very different from the current reality. Over the last four years, the District has experienced audits from the City, State and 20 courts, in addition to the ones conducted at our 21 request by Greater Philadelphia First and the 22 business community. We have been diligent in 23 responding to any recommendations that were feasible. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. our '99-2000 budget itself, let's take a quick look into the future. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is whether students are able to read better, do mate more proficiently, know more science, graduate on time, and go successfully to college or to a 21st century job. As the numbers tell us, we have made dramatic progress towards those goals. We are ahead of schedule toward meeting the most ambitious goals set in any school district in the United States. Nevertheless, we have a long way to go. More than half of our students, 52 percent, can now read at the basic level or above -- and that's up from 40 percent just two years. And we celebrate that, but that means that 48 percent cannot. We are changing that. In 1996, 48 percent of our 12th-graders graduated on time. Last year, that number had climbed to 52 percent in just two years. And we celebrate that difficult achievement, but that still means that 48 percent did not. We're changing that. There is a lot of good news. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. lies ahead. Let me mention six of them. The first and more important challenge is continuing to instill the fundamental believe that "all" means "all," that our commitment is to all children, that the barriers to learning that individual children face are ones that we must overcome, and they must not be used to excuse either the child's failure or ours as educators. The best strategy to meet this challenge is to continue to use the belief that all students can learn at high levels as the standard against which we measure all we do and say. A second major challenge is what I characterize as moving through basic to proficient. Increasing numbers of our students now, as noted above, more than 50 percent in reading, are at the basic level of performance or above. There is evidence that breaking through the ceiling to achieve at the proficient level will require teaching and learning by both teachers and students that is qualitatively different -- a difference in kind, not just degree. We must help teachers help students make that leap from basic to proficient or advanced. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. A third major challenge is both providing reduced class size for students in kindergarten through grade 3 and in pre-kindergarten for 3- and 4-year-olds and finding the space to do so. The Board has already identified these two program initiatives as essential to the success of all students.
A corollary will be finding ways for our schools to accommodate the programs. It will require alternative school calendars, including year-round schools. Alternative school calendars will also provide the opportunity to attack summer learning lose through summer programs and to, in other ways, supply extra academic and social support for students who are struggling to meet the high standards of performance. A fourth major challenge will be identifying the hundreds of new teachers and principals required next year and in the years immediately ahead. The increased requirements are a result of more retirements and initiatives such as reduced class size and pre-kindergarten programs. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. example, mathematics, science, and world languages. Not only are the sheer numbers that are required a challenge, but the quality of teachers necessary for the much higher standards is equally, if not more, important. Our compensation system, the way in which teachers are assigned to schools, recruitment tactics and incentives, new-teacher mentoring, and the daily level of support we must provide teachers and principals will require our careful review. We must leave no 13 stone unturned in ensuring sufficient numbers of quality teachers for our children. A fifth major challenge arises from the so-called welfare reform. More than half of our students receive public assistance. Indeed, more than half of all the students in the entire state who receive public assistance are in our system. That concentration of poverty makes it exceptionally more difficult to reach all children. But this week, it will get worse. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. system, will hit their two-year limit for TANF benefits and will be at risk of losing those benefits. Tens of thousands of our kids already survive under lousy conditions. Now they're on the edge of grotesque deprivation that will challenge them even more. We must continue to reject poverty as an excuse for our not succeeding, but there is no doubt but that our job will be harder. And, finally, we need additional funding. We do not need money alone. Indeed, we've already produced results beyond our expectations without additional permanent resources. I predict that we can continue to meet our ambitious targets for the current school year and the next with relatively little real increase in our level of spending. Working harder and smarter can probably carry us through the next two years of continuous improvement, especially if teachers, parents, principals, and students have reasonable hope that in the end, adequate resources will be forthcoming. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. need at least as much as others already have available. While Mr. Santilli, the Acting Associate Managing Director of the School District for Finance, will provide you with a detailed presentation on the budget, I'd like to make two final observations. Because of the speculation and anxiety in previous years, let me say that while we cannot yet identify the specific sources for the funds, I fully expect that the schools will operate in the normal fashion for the entire 1999-2000 school year. Before the spring of 2000, I expect additional revenues from the government, local State, and/or federal. I also expect to raise additional funds from foundations and other private-sector sources. This budget reflects our continuing commitment to raising student achievement, increasing graduation and promotion rates, and eliminating social promotion. There are two important new features of this year's budget that strengthen our ability to meet student needs in these areas. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. in the Fair Opportunities to Learn standards that the Board of Education approved in conjunction with the graduation and promotion requirements last spring.
These include most notably summer programs for those students in the 3rd, 7th, 9th, and 11th grades, who, absent additional help, will likely fail in June 2000 when we eliminate social promotion and our higher standards for students take effect. The second new initiative is lower student-teacher ratios in kindergarten and first grade in at least one elementary school per cluster. This is a down payment made possible with anticipated federal funds dedicated to reduced class size on another system-wide requirement of the Fair Opportunities to Learn standards. That requirement is a student-teacher ratio of 1-to-17 or better in kindergarten through the 3rd grade. Mr. Santilli is prepared to place the details of the budget before you. And with your permission, I'll ask him to come to the table to do so.
Please. 2133 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam President. (Gerald Santilli comes forward.)
Good morning, Mr. Santilli. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good morning, Council President Verna, City Council, and concerned citizens. My name is Gerald Santilli. I am the Acting Assistant Managing Director for Finance for the School District of Philadelphia. I am here today to present testimony in support of the School District's proposed operating budget for Fiscal Year 2000. 8 million more than our estimate for the current year's expenditures. I will highlight the reasons for these changes later in my presentation. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Fund. Our preliminary comparative statement of operating budget revenues, obligations, and changes in fund balance is presented on and 2 of the supplemental charts. This statement has been modified from the one contained in the budget document. This modification reflects the Board of Education's charter school approvals last Monday. Going from left to right, the first column presents the current year budget as adopted on May 29, 1998. " The third column, labeled "Estimated 1998-999" represents our estimate of results for the fiscal year. The "Adjustments" column in between shows the increases and decreases in revenues, obligations, and other financing sources and uses that have been identified since the May 29th adoption of the budget. The last column presents the proposed budget for the next fiscal year. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. financing sources and uses from this fiscal year to next fiscal year. As the data indicates, the School District estimates that it will end the current 1999 fiscal year with a small fund balance of $142,600. million. million in Fiscal Year 2000. 8 million of capital expenditures and equipment from the General Fund to the Miscellaneous Capital Projects Fund. These funds, which were received from insurance settlements, are legally unrestricted. This will leave the School District with approximately a $100,000 fund balance at the end of the current fiscal year. I would like to call your attention to the graph in the supplemental charts on . /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. 1 million. The first supplemental chart on indicates how our budget revenue will be derived for the next fiscal year. The percentages of revenues are as follows: 59 percent from the Commonwealth, 37 percent from local taxes, and percent from local non-tax sources, primarily the City's renewal of its $15 million grant. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. administrative support; and percent for debt service insurance and other costs. The revenue projections for 2000 are based on amounts contained in Governor Ridge's proposed budget and from local taxes at current rates. The cost projections for 2000 are based on the assumption that the School District will continue to provide all of the educational programs currently in place. The School District will make several program changes which are reflected in the Fiscal Year 2000 Operating Budget. million, which plans to provide kindergarten to all students at their local elementary schools will be established. 8 million. 3 million. The most significant impact on the proposed Operating Budget for Fiscal Year 2000 is the costs related to charter schools. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. 1 million, which is $27 million over the current year's estimate. in the supplemental charts provides a summary of charger enrollment and the cost to the School District. One of the most useful ways to track Operating Budget costs is to review the Schedule D reconciliation found on of the supplemental charts. Line numbers are reflected on the left side of the page, which refer to major items of change in both the budget for this year and next year. Line 1 reflects, by category of expenditure (also known as "object class") the current year budget as originally adopted. Line 2 reflects changes made to our accounting code structure to confirm to the State accounting codes. Line 4a shows the net decrease to this year's budget resulting from a variety of events and/or activities implemented subsequent to budget adoption.
6 million, are detailed on Pages B-3 and B-4 of the Budget Document. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Line 4b reflects the accounting treatment necessary for the refinancing of general obligation bonds, which occurred during the current fiscal year. This cost is fully offset by bond proceeds. Line 5 represents the current year budget as we see it today, and the numbers are the basis for comparison to the proposed budget for the Fiscal Year 2000. Lines 6 through 19 reflect the categories of change between the two years. Each line item is detailed on Pages B-5 through B-13 in the Budget Document. Increases in salary increments total $11 million. These increments represent the annual wage increase that employees receive for each additional year of service. 3 million for Fiscal Year 2000 are primarily attributable to collective bargaining agreements. 2 million. 8 million of this account. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. million resulting from higher debt service costs in Fiscal Year 2000. Another significant change is noted on Line 18. million. Growth in revenues from both the Commonwealth and local taxes have been minimal. The Commonwealth's Equalized Subsidy for Basic Education, also known as "ESBE," has been virtually frozen at 1991-'92 levels. 9 million of additional revenue. 1 million, virtually closing the gap. These losses of revenue totaling $592 million are recapped on of the supplemental charts. of the supplemental charts presents a history of revenues from the Commonwealth for 1991-'92 through 1999-2000. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. since 1991-'92. At the local level, the assessed value of taxable real estate has been essentially flat since 1992. of the supplemental charts shows City tax revenue if it had grown merely 2 percent each year since 1991-'92. A history of revenues derived from each individual tax from 1993-'94 through 1999-2000 is presented on of the supplemental charts. This anemic picture of revenue growth, combined with substantial growth and enrollment, has resulted in less revenue per student. The School District continues to seek additional sources of revenue and search for expenditure savings we achieve from operating efficiencies without making instructional program reductions. Thank you for your time and attention, and I'll be happy to answer any of your questions.
Thank you very much. Mr. Hornbeck, is there anyone else that you wish to testify?
No, thank you, Madam 2142 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. President.
Fine. Before we get into our question-and-answer period, I would like Councilmembers to know that we'll have five minutes to ask questions, and then we will have a second go-around. Mr. Hornbeck, can you tell us how many teacher positions are vacant at the present time?
About 125. And I also see in your testimony that 1100 teachers and administrators are eligible to retire under the 30-and-out window.
How many do you think will really retire? Do you have any indication?
It really is a flip of the coin, but more than normal. Traditionally, just to put this in context, Madam President, historically, the School District has hired 4 or 500 teachers a year. In the last two years, we've hired roughly 800 a year because the tenure of our staff is getting older all the time. 2143 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. This next year, we face two issues. One is the 30-and-out. If they go ahead and close that retirement window, there are those who will be eligible who will want to get out. And the other is our opportunity to hire an extra 235 to 250 teaches for purposes of reducing class size. So altogether, we expect to have to hire between and 1500 people for September. 10 With a lower number in this last year, for 11 example, we opened school with about 300 12 vacancies, and we've run an average of about 150 day. And, as I say, today, I think there's about 125.
Apparently, the problem of teacher shortage is not unique to Philadelphia. I was watching television yesterday morning and I saw that in Chicago and in Florida, they're not only having problems trying to hire teachers, but they're having difficulty in hiring substitutes. You cite various reasons as to why the district is experiencing teacher shortages. What are you doing in the areas of the District hiring process, assignment of staff to schools, and 2144 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. training administrators to welcome and support new teachers?
Well, in terms of -- you've hit on two or three of the really important things. And we're doing training with administrators to create that more welcoming atmosphere; and more than that, creating opportunities for young teachers to have mentors in each instance so that there's somebody to whom they can turn, because every new teacher to teaching faces really major issues. And having in a sense a buddy system, if you will, is an important piece of that. So both the training of administrators and the kind of mentoring. In terms of the assignment of teachers to schools, that will be an issue that we will want to discuss extensively with the Federation of Teachers a year from August as we go into the next round of collective bargaining, because that assignment process is one that is tightly and strictly controlled by the collective bargaining agreement and can only be changed at the moment through exceptions. And once in a while, you'll have a particular situation that an individual 2145 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. agreement can be reached, but it needs to be dealt with across the board.
You mentioned the hard-to-fill positions. What positions are they?
Well, the traditional hard-to-fill positions are ones like special education, the higher levels of mathematics, the higher levels of science. But as you note, the issue of teacher shortages is becoming one that not just we face, but school districts all across the region, the State and the nation face. And what we're beginning to see now is, for the first time, serious shortages in places that historically have not been hard to fill. For example, I don't think, until this year, we've ever had vacancies in grade teachers -- that is, people who teach 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th grade. And while the shortage there is significantly less than like physics teachers or music teachers, we are beginning to see that around the edges.
Is the District's starting salaries for teachers competitive with the suburban districts? And do 2146 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. you think that this may be one of the reasons why people decline to work in the District?
It is one of the reasons. We start -- I think it's at $3,000 less than the average in the suburbs. And during the course of the career of teachers -- Philadelphia versus the suburbs -- we find ourselves, I think, 61st out of 62 in salary levels. And, yes, that is a definite impediment. In fact, it's one of the three top reasons that people give for not coming to work in Philadelphia.
A second one is the one that you mentioned -- the lack of flexibility in the choice of schools. And the third one is the residency requirement. But in the reverse order; it's residency, selection, and compensation.
How much federal funding do you expect to receive for class-size reductions in your 1999-2000 budget? And what are the grades that you will be reducing the class size in? 2147 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
We expect to receive about $13 million, and the grades will be kindergarten and the 1st grade. And we expect to be able to change the student-teacher ratio, lower it in at least one elementary school in each of the clusters with the use of these funds. 8
To the best 9 of your knowledge, will this be an ongoing federal 10 program? And if it is not, what happens next 11 year? 12
Well, at least to the 13 best of our hope, it will be an ongoing program. 14 We can't, of course, guarantee that, but our 15 expectation is that it will extend next year and 16 beyond. 17 The Board, last July or June, when they 18 passed the graduation and promotion requirements, 19 also passed a series of Fair Opportunities to 20 Learn standards, and a copy of that document is in 21 your material. And one of the elements in that 22 document is reduced class size, kindergarten through the 3rd grade. That series of things in that document are what we believe will be necessary in the end to bring all youngsters to 2148 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. that very high level of achievement. So in a sense, our ability with federal funds this year to do a down payment on that is an important first step, and is in a sense a year earlier. Now, what happens if the feds don't do it or that we don't get the money? Then that will simply be one element of the School District slipping back into the morass that has characterized the failure of education in Philadelphia for decades, to provide good services for kids.
Thank you. The Chair now recognizes the Chairperson of the Education Committee, Councilwoman Miller.
My question is related to teacher vacancies. On the question of teacher vacancies, do you have any hard evidence that all the steps you've taken to recruit teachers has worked?
We have hard evidence that all the steps we've taken to recruit teachers 2149 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. has not worked. The evidence we find literally on a daily basis. Like these 125 vacancies. Despite hiring more recruiters; making more trips further away to more places to hire; bringing bus loads of young people into Philadelphia to introduce them to the School District; increasing the number of student-teachers that we supervise, in the hope of keeping them; creating new programs, for example, for people whose first language isn't English at Community College and at Temple to, in a sense, grow our own; many, many, many, many, many initiatives. But today, as I say, we have roughly 125 vacancies. And if you think of there being 30 kids in each classroom, what that -- what that basically means is -- what is that, that's a little over 3600 students sitting in classrooms today without a permanent, regularly-assigned certified teacher.
Well, do you think that we're going to have enough students to open the school -- I know to open the schools, but to fulfill a lot of that vacancy in September? And what are the plans for filling those vacancies 2150 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. from now through June for this year?
Well, we will continue what we've been doing and accelerate it further. We are sorting through other initiatives; like, for example, what other school districts are doing, are paying bonuses, assigning bonuses. They won't be the $10 million that they pay the 76ers to sign, but something more modest than that. We are looking at the possibility of support for subsidized mortgage, for example, to attract people. There are one or two districts that have done that across the United States. I think that -- I think we've got -- I think everything's got to be on the board. It's my hope, in fact, that when the hearings are over, that we may in fact be able to put together a group of people comprised of a couple of vice presidents for human resources in some of the major corporations in Philadelphia, perhaps with a couple members of Council, together with some of our human resources people, and really see all of the various options, including initiatives that Council might be able to take, like related to 2151 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. mortgage subsidy and so on that we could do. Because right now, I think that we will likely again in September open school with vacancies. And let me say that one of the terrific things that could happen -- and we've been working on it, but I don't know how much success there is, and if any member of Council could be helpful in this, it would be great. If we could keep that retirement window open in Harrisburg, we believe that that could save us several hundred vacancies come the fall because we have people who are, you know, 53, 54, 56, 57 years old, they've got 30 years, and they don't particularly want to retire, but if they think this June 30th is the last shot at retiring before they're 62 or 65, then they will take it. And so any assistance that we can get on that front would be terrific.
Okay, thank you Mr. Hornbeck, Madam Chair. I have questions I'll ask later.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madam President. 2152 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Dr. Hornbeck, the testimony of the $1500 gap between per-student between the suburbs and Philadelphia is really not in dispute; I think we all agree that that is, in fact, the case. And also what's not in dispute is that 60 percent, 58.9 percent of our city's school system budget comes from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania today. Even if we all agree in the room that there is an inequity here, do you believe that your approach to both the governor and to the legislature has been effective or ineffective, productive or counterproductive in getting us where we want to be considering that I think that we've been a thorough failure in our lawsuit to bring this issue through the courts? And what is it you can do into the future to salvage what seems to be a very nasty relationship?
Well, I think that it has to be the case, it's sort of like the vacancies. The fact that the Commonwealth, after 30 years, continues to treat our children unfairly is a fact, and so the City's approach to Harrisburg, for at least 30 years, has been a 2153 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. failure. And I'm -- I don't know all of the strategies that those of us in the City, whether we're elected officials or officials at the School District, could take that would be more effective. There has tended to be, over the years, two themes that have played in Harrisburg, and they are two themes that we have responded to in unusually positive ways. One is that Harrisburg -- and not just this administration, but previous administrations have said, What good does it do to give Philadelphia more money? When we do, it doesn't seem to change achievement. And so one of the things that we've done, and rather successfully, is to change achievement. Kids can read and do math and do science better, and so we have responded to that challenge, and I think that's been a very good strategy -- responding specifically to their challenge. Secondly, they have repeatedly made the observation that, as I suggested in my testimony, that we are a bloated bureaucracy that wastes large sums of money. And one of the things we've done again is to take management steps that have 2154 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. shifted money from administration and other costs to instruction. So that compared to our colleagues in Southeastern Pennsylvania, compared to our colleagues statewide, we do better than they do. So that at least, in a relative sense, we've also met that challenge. So that on the two primary points that 30 years of governors and legislatures have put in front of the City of Philadelphia, I think our strategies of better management and higher achievement have been very effective. How we can put together a strategy in Philadelphia between City Council and the Mayor and the School District and the wider citizenry that will be effective not only on behalf of Philadelphia but on behalf of poor children in rural school districts, I don't have that answer. And I would look forward to work with you and others on City Council and other elected officials to design such a strategy.
Well, I guess my situation is one of while I may agree with you in theory or philosophy, the reality of the situation is that the Governor's attitude and the attitude 2155 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. of his staff does not seem to be at this point to be conducive to providing substantial new money for Philadelphia; that the legislature, despite your efforts or your suggestion that administration has been cut and that achievement has improved, does not seem to be moving. So I guess railing against the unfairness doesn't seem to work, and there seems to be maybe a new approach that needs to be taken with that governmental body, that simply saying, "We need more money" and "You've been unfair for 30 years" has not worked. And what I thought when we agreed to move forward with budgeting, despite the fact we didn't have the money, that somehow, we were going to be saved by the courts doesn't seem to be the case -- even though we may appeal our court case being thrown out. I would just suggest maybe a new and revamped approach as opposed to one of the adversarial unfairness argument that somehow we try to figure out a way to meet them on some common ground to get maybe not exactly what we think we deserve but what is available. 2156 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. I mean, as our situation relates to Harrisburg, I think it's done nothing but deteriorate, and I think it's not in the best of interests of our students that that situation exists.
Well, there's no 8 question but that we're not getting what we need or we frankly aren't even getting what's available. And I would be more than open to suggestions around which we have any reason to believe that they might be more effective. I -- if it were the case that 10 years ago or 20 year ago or 30 year ago, there had been effectiveness in this way, then one could simply adopt one of those strategies. But, clearly, that was not the case either. And I worry a little bit that there has been this sort of history around Philadelphia, around simply not -- for whatever set of reasons -- wanting to provide the funds to Philadelphia that would provide adequacy and equity.
My time is up, but I'm just going to state the obvious. This governor has just be re-inaugurated for another 2157 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. term, the Democrats are ten votes short in the Senate, and we don't control the house. I think the reality of the situation is we need another approach. And that's my suggestion.
I would very much look forward to working with you to try to design that.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
On the first of your testimony, the second paragraph, there is a statement that says, "It is that 95 percent of our students reach world-class achievement standards within one student generation." And then in parentheses, you have "12 years." Was that the initial goal upon your arriving here in Philadelphia?
Yes. Ever since one was established, that's been it. 2158 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Okay. And when does this one student generation or 12-year period of turnaround begin?
'96. And how far along toward the 95 percent level do you think we are at this point?
The best way to -- I mean, there are a couple of ways you could answer that. We have divided things into six 2-year parts so that we can't afford to wait 12 years to see how we're doing; we've got to make at least one-sixth of the progress every two years.
And this last year was the end of the first of those two years, and we were substantially ahead of where that one-sixth was. Now, you would define that for reading, where 52 percent of the kids are now up from 40 percent above basic and above in reading. It's a little lower for math, and it's a lot lower for 2159 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. science. So we're at different steps.
Is the basic measurement a part of the 95 percent of students reaching world-class achievement levels or is that some higher level?
No, it's higher than basic. We believe that proficient is the level. And to translate that into terms that people have talked about more often, basic is roughly at the 50th percentile -- half below, half above -- and that's the way we historically in the United States have talked.
What does that mean, they're reading at grade level -- 50 percent are reading at grade level?
Well, proficient would be 70 percent, so it's a very high standard of 2160 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. achievement that we have set.
Proficient is the 70 percent. Advanced must be 95 percent, and I do not expect, nor do our children on average need to be at advanced in order to be successful in college or be successful in a genuine 21st century job.
I can't spout that off the top of my head. There's actually material in your --
Why don't I get the staff to look a that while we're talking, and they can point that out to you.
Okay, no problem, 2161 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. thank you. What in your view are the essential components of a good school? And the context of that question is, I guess, about a month ago, there was a Sunday Philadelphia Inquirer piece that showed performance index levels for all the schools in Philadelphia, and I think also some comparisons with the four or five counties around us, and then how the schools performed on the state tests. Is that the PSSA?
Okay. One of the schools seemed to stand out fairly significantly, even on the State measurements. It was the Mantua School, which is not in my district, but it did very well on all the tests. What is going on at that particular school in comparison to the other 256 schools?
Actually, Masterman, if I remember correctly, was number one in the State.
So it not doing "just well"; it was really a stunning performance. I think that there are -- 2162 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
I served it up that way so that you could brag about it.
Thank you, sir. I think there are two or three things going on at Masterman. I think they've got a fine faculty, I think they've got a fine principal. I think they have high expectations of the students; when the kid walks in the door, the faculty, the principal, the other staff expect kids to do very well. And they also have a very rigorous selection process that basically means that the students have to have scored, I think it's like at 93 or 94 as a precondition of being selected. So you take a good principal, good teachers, and already highly proficient children and high expectations, and it produces what you see.
On of the 2163 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. supplemental chart, looking at the breakdown of the funds by function, how does the projected deficit affect each of these sections with the $80 million deficit?
It really doesn't affect any category because we budget a composite budget, so it could affect each of those categories if we were to make eliminations equally across the board; or if we're targeting a specific area, it could affect that particular area. So it really doesn't affect one particular category of type of expenditures.
I wanted to ask you about the charter schools. Do we get any State funding for the charter schools?
We get a very small amount of transitional cost for non-public school students. There's a million dollars budgeted Statewide, and Philadelphia expects to get about $600,000 of that million dollars, but that's the only money that we're getting specifically for 2164 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. charter schools.
In your testimony, it says that most of the charter schools are in Philadelphia; is that --
That's correct. In this school year, we have operating -- and if memory 8 serves, there are 29, I think there are 29 9 statewide. We have almost half. We have a little 10 more than half of the students in the charter 11 schools. 12 Next year, the Board has just approved 13 12 additional charter schools, and I don't know what's happened in the rest of the state, so I don't know what the relative posture is, but there's no question but that we will be at roughly half or more of charter schools and --
Is there a limit on the number of charter schools that you can approve or you can just go forever?
There is no limit. And indeed, this year, for the first year, any applicant for charter school status that is denied a charter by the local school board may appeal that denial to a State Charter School Committee. 2165 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. And we had applications for charter school status, and we approved 12. What proportion of the 13 we'll appeal or will appeal successfully to the State, I don't know. So it is at least conceivable that in -- sometime in the summer, maybe even in the late summer, that if the State were to approve additional charter schools, that the impact, the net impact on the School District budget could grow significantly.
Are the students 13 in the charter schools a part of your testing 14 process? Do they have to take the SAT-9? Are 15 they accounted for in the overall achievement of 16 all of the students in the public schools? 17
They are not counted as 18 part of the accountability system. So when I say 19 that 52 percent of our students can read at the 20 basic level or above, that does not include 21 charter school students. 22 What the Board did do, however, is, as 23 a precondition of granting charter status in each 24 instance, the charter school is required to have 25 their students take the test so that parents in 2166 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Carter schools, the public at large, Council, whomever, are able to see how a specific charter school is doing on the same basis that they can determine how one of the Philadelphia school District's public schools is doing. But charter schools, under the law, while they are public schools, they are, in effect, independent local education agencies. And so they are separate from the Philadelphia -- they are separate school district is what it amounts to, each one by itself.
How do you calculate the funding for each charter school?
The law contains in it a definition of what is to be counted in the total cost of a school district, and then we divide all of the non-special education students into an amount of money, and that comes out this year to the tune of around $5300. And then we take the amount of money that's spent on special-education students and we divide the special ed. kids into that, and that comes out to $10,200. And then we give to the charter school the $5300 or whatever it is times however many non-special ed. students 2167 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. they had they have, and we give to them then however -- $10,200 times however many special ed. students they have. And that's -- it's fairly straightforward on the non-special ed. students. The special ed. formula in the State law is another place where the State law needs revision. Because when we total our amount of money spent on special education students, it, by definition, includes the money that we spend on severely and profoundly handicapped kids. And that can be ten of thousands of dollars. I think I'm right that there is not yet a single charter school that has a severely and profoundly handicapped student. Yet the amount of money that the charter school gets for each of its handicapped students is based on a formula that includes severely and profoundly handicapped kids. And so it's hugely inflated as a consequence.
I'm sorry, Councilwoman, your time has long been over. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Clark. 2168 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Thank you, Madam President. I'm particularly interested, Mr. Hornbeck, in your comments that deal with the 145 successful schools.
You say these 145 schools in the aggregate constitute the 23rd largest school district in America -- bigger than Washington D.C., Boston, or Denver. You say this is your most important indicator of the School District's dramatic success to date. Now, I know you need a chance to expound on this, and so help me understand it a little bit better. If I had you in a court of law and asked you for an offer of proof that this works, what would you say is evidence that's compelling and persuasive, that some intervention instituted by children's achievement is having this kind of dramatic measurable effect? Now, let me throw in a buzz word, then I'll hear your answer.
For about the last 2169 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. or years, the buzz word in education has been "accountability," and it's meant at least as many things to folks as there were speakers using the term. Tell me how you have put accountability into your formula and how you measure its effectiveness.
I'd be glad to, 9 Councilwoman. 10 On the number front, there are six 11 things that we look at in each school: how the 12 kids do in reading, how they do in math, how they 13 do in science, student attendance, and staff 14 attendance. And then for schools that have 15 kindergarten through the eighth grade in them, the 16 promotion rates. And for schools that have 9 to 17 12 in them, the graduation rates. 18 And we evaluate how much progress each 19 school makes on each of those things and then we 20 create a formula so that we can put those things together. So a school in a given two-year period could do a lot better in reading and not as well in math and still come out as having 'cause then they can set priorities and give focus to one or the other. 2170 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Now, the reason that I say that these represent -- that this represents dramatic progress is in two ways. One is what in fact has happened. And by that, I mean, at the elementary level, the point increase in reading, the 12 in 7 math, the 15 in science; at the eight grade level, 8 10 points in reading, 10 in math, 13 in science; 9 and even in school, where we saw a 48 percent 10 increase in the participation of kids, which 11 normally drags scores down because the new kids 12 getting tested are the kids who most often are the 13 ones that don't do very well. We saw an 8-point increase in reading and 4.5 in math and 3.6 in science. So in those terms, just the sheer progress. If you go around the United States, as I pointed out in the case of Chicago, for example, our progress is hugely greater at the elementary level, for example, than Chicago's. And you can see those same things as you go around -- you go around the United States. And then there's the fact that some people thought, Well, those are going to be the schools where the least poor kids go to school, so 2171 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. we went and looked to see about that. And it turned out not to be so. The least poor schools met the performance targets in the same proportion as the most poor schools did -- leading me to the conclusion, anyhow, that it's not whether you're rich or poor or black or white or you're a native English-speaker or your not; it instead depends on what happens in the classroom, and you can create space and place for kids no matter what their family background or color or language or anything else that can help them succeed. We then have had this independent test and measurement set of experts to come and look because there were those who said, you know, the superintendent must be cooking the books because you couldn't possibly have all these little poor kids achieve at high levels any other way. And that's the reason that I cite some of the --
Well, that leads to one other question one other thing and I thank you for your answers.
Can you tell me why we don't have 100 percent of students tested? 2172 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. I don't think that Philadelphians understand the concept that some kids go to school but are not in the group who are tested. So could you briefly explain why some students are not tested?
In the -- there are two ways of answering that. We tested in '96, '97, and '98 for accountability purposes only in the 4th, 8th, and 11th grades, to take sort of the temperature from the accountability point of view of how the elementary school was doing, how the middle school was doing, and how the high school was doing. We also tested last year in four other grades but we didn't include it in the accountability stuff because we wanted to do apples and apples. Now, in the second round of accountability, we will combine 3 and 4, and 7 and 8, and 10 and 11, and compare them in two years the way we have done with 4, 8 and 11 in this first round. The other reason that kids don't participate, however -- and it's the one we went after -- is that there are a lot of kids who stay home on testing day. In fact, too many of our 2173 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. kids stay home on more than testing day, which is one of reasons that we put attendance in there and we've taken such strong truancy initiatives.
Councilwoman, I'm sorry, your time has been up. If you don't mind waiting.
Thank you, I'm sorry. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you, Madam President. Superintendent Hornbeck, the story about -- there's a lot of folks and you mentioned Chicago, and I've been to Chicago, and I've gone to Roberto Clemente School in Chicago, and I know a lot of the teachers, principals, and individuals. And the climate at the Roberto Clemente School, at one point, was a very positive one; and during the last year and a half, it 2174 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. really has deteriorated. But the story of Chicago keeps being put forward as the example that we should follow in the City of Philadelphia, and I don't think that story -- our story and their story has really been compared, so now I'd like you to give us a snapshot of the differences very clearly so that we can begin to understand what they have achieved, what we have, and what are the differences.
I think the question's very well taken, and I did begin to speak to it in my testimony. And I do so not to denigrate at all the accomplishments in Chicago, because I think that they've gone through two reform cycles -- one that began in 1988, when they passed this remarkable piece of state legislation that created local school councils around every single school in Chicago and elected a majority of community people as the governance of the school and gave them the power, for example, to hire and fire principals. That didn't by itself produce the kinds of changes that they were looking for. And so in 2175 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. 1995, the Mayor and the business community came together and got another law passed that transferred the powers of governance of schools to the mayor and a so-called strong mayor type of governance. And over those years, they have made some progress. And so I don't want to take anything away from them. The fact is, for example, using the data from elementary schools, which I think of as the real comparative data because we've only been at work at this for three years, and they've been in their new system for three years. If you use grade level as the comparison point, what you find is that in Philadelphia, we use the 4th grade, they use the 3rd grade, so that's what I'm sharing with you. We increased the proportion of kids at grade level by 34 percent in reading over these last two years, the same time period. They increased their student at grade level not 34 percent but 13 percent. Now, 13 percent is good. It's just 1/3 of almost 34 percent. In the case of math, we increased the 2176 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. proportion of students by 43 percent in math; they increased by percent. Again, 19 percent in the 4 world of school reform out there, and if I were in 5 Chicago, I would say this is really terrific. The 6 difference is that we've just done almost three 7 times better. 8 Then the question would arise, Well, 9 but percentages can get a little squishy. You can 10 get big percentages off of a low base. So then we 11 looked at, Well, what absolute proportion of 12 Chicago's kids are at grade level and what 13 absolute proportion of Philadelphia's children are 14 at grade level in the elementary school, and the 15 fact is that 40 percent now of our 4th-graders are 16 reading at grade level and above. And that's 17 compared to 25 percent of Chicago's. 18 So I don't want to take anything away 19 from Chicago. I just keep hoping that as we have these great debates about education, that we would do it on the basis of fact.
And do we have any number as to the expenditure per student, dollar expenditure per student in the Chicago system and the Philadelphia system? 2177 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
I actually do not have that, but I could get it for you pretty easily.
In terms of success, of children achieving, and specifically in the area of dropout rates, what is the -- what has been the experience of students leaving the school system in the area of -- (Five-minute timer goes off.)
Last question -- in the area from the 7th to the 12th grade?
And do you have numbers in terms of Latinos, African-Americans, and so on down the line?
I'll get you that breakdown, Councilman Ortiz. I don't have the 7 to 12. I have the 9 to 12. During the -- again, the '96, '97, '98 first accountability cycle: in '96, 48 percent of our students graduated on time. In '98, 52 percent graduated on time. And 2178 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. I will get you both the to 12. I will also get you the breakout based on -- desegregated by language, Latino --
And I'd like to see 6 it by high school if possible -- Edison, Olney, 7 Kensington.
One of the nice things, and it's why I think I accurately claim that we've gone further than just about anybody in providing the world out there with the data, is that we can do it by school and we can do it by race, we can do it by language -- we can do it -- I mean, the fact is that on a four-year graduation rate that's segregated by race and ethnicity, Latino, it went up by 1.9 points -- that's in contrast to the citywide 4 points. And it's --
No, no, I'm sorry. I always look at it not in terms of dropouts but in terms of graduation, so I was doing it the other way.
So 35.2 percent of 2179 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Latinos in '96 graduated on time; 37.1 percent in '98.
Mr. Hornbeck, on that issues, can you refer to , please. It would appear that --
Yes. I know that you said that 52 percent graduated.
On time. What happened to the other students? I see that in the 9th grade, there were 18,000 that enrolled and 9,000 apparently graduated. What happened to the other students who did not? Did they have to repeat a year, were they simply dropouts?
What 2180 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. percentage were dropouts, what percentage had to repeat the year?
Most of them ultimately drop out. I can get you sort of absolutely accurate data, but let me tell you roughly the situation. As I said, 52 percent graduated on time in '98. But another roughly 5 or 6 percent graduated after five years in '98. And roughly 11 percent graduated after six years. So that we 12 give most emphasis to on-time graduation, but we 13 also track the numbers for a 5th-year graduation and a 6th year. And a 5th- and 6-th year graduation happens in a couple of ways. One is that a student will spend an extra year in the 9th grade or the 10th grade or the 11th grade; and the other is that a student will return and then graduate. But if you do your arithmetic, you still come out with roughly 30, 35 percent of the kids who actually drop out -- less than used to, but still one of those things that looms as a very major issue for us.
Thank you 2181 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. very much.
Superintendent Hornbeck, you stated in your comments and in the materials that you passed around that students are performing better. Are the higher test scores isolated in certain schools, in only a few neighborhoods, or in only certain grades?
They are neither isolated by neighborhood, nor are they isolated by grade. We had improvement at all three grade levels in all three subjects. The greatest gains were in the elementary and middle schools. It went down in high school a little bit -- the gain went down, we still made a gain. The gain went down for at least two reasons. One is that we had a huge increase in the kids taking the test, and so we took lots of kids who weren't doing very well in high school, and we lured them back into high school to take the test. And so that inhibited the growth. And the second thing is that a kid in the 11th grade last year had only been subject to 2182 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. the Children Achieving agenda for four years; while a kid in the 4th grade last year had been subject to it basically his entire school career. So across the board -- reading, math, science -- grades 4, 8, and went up. 7 Then the question does revolve around, 8 Well, did only kids in higher-income areas beat 9 the performance target? Or did only white kids, 10 or did only Latino kids, or you know, etc. And 11 the answer is that across the board, we saw gains in each -- in each racial language breakdown. Now, it's not uniform. Like I just said in response to Councilman Ortiz's question, the increase in the proportion of Latino kids who graduated on time was less than the increase in the proportion of African-American kids who graduated on time. But in each instance, there was growth. And one other thing, which is related to that question, Ms. Miller, is that we picked 13 schools by virtue of poorest performance, least progress in '97, and gave them additional help and support. By '98, when we looked at how those 13 schools did, 7 of those 13 not only regained their 2183 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. original level of performance, but they performed so well that they exceeded their performance target. Of the remaining 6, 4 improved their performance, leaving only 2 that continued to require strong support.
Okay, I'd like to ask for information regarding what is the 145 schools that did well.
You will be happy to know that every single Council district has several of those schools.
All right. I have another question. On of your testimony, you make mention that 241 of the 249 schools in the 2184 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. accountability system made achievement improvement.
The accountability system is our identifying a specific performance target for every single school -- in effect, every single year, but counting it only every two years, because the accountability cycles are two-year cycles. And if a school exceeds its performance target, then that school receives a reward. And we have -- the 145 are the ones for whom that happened.
For schools that are struggling, they get extra help, and those are those 13 schools that I mentioned a moment ago.
And schools that persistently or dramatically fail will ultimately, after two accountability cycles, be the schools that are subject to reconstitution. And that's the accountability for educators. 2185 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Now, the new tough graduation and promotion requirements represent the accountability system for students. And the Fair Opportunities to Learn standards that we've laid out -- I was talking a while ago about reduced class size and pre-K, for example, those represent in our definition the accountability system for citizens or for taxpayers.
-- we, the general, public should hear a different type of report. We hear reports now that a lot of our graduates cannot pass entrance exams, or that they don't qualify for apprenticeship programs in, for example, the trade unions. And do you think that that failure to achieve is related to social promotions?
Absolutely. I wouldn't pick social promotion out in a sense by itself because it's all the pieces that the educational system has not yet met, but social promotion is 2186 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. one of the manifestations. I mean, you come along and you've got a kid who finds himself in the 12th grade, he graduates, and can't read. And then he goes off to take an apprenticeship test and he can't read that either. And that's really -- when I referred to 21st century jobs several times, for example, I'm talking about kids coming out of high school, and every single one of them, if they want to take an apprenticeship test, they'll be to pass it. Every single one of them, if they want to go to college, can go without taking those remedial courses. That's where we're going with this.
You know, most recently, the sheet metal workers union passed out a flyer, and they're recruiting people to their apprenticeship program, and I was very surprised to learn that their math requirement was trig. So are those kind of factors taken into curriculum development? When I think of trig, I think of kids that are on a college track.
And I never 2187 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. really thought of it. Maybe it's because I'm maybe not that familiar with trade unions and all those types of jobs. But is that taken into consideration for curriculum development?
Absolutely. Kids who would need the proficient standard in math tests, which is where we expect kids ultimately to be, will be able to pass that sheet metal workers test.
And that's what the expectation ought to be. I think you've put your finger on a really important point. In the United States forever, we've had this thing about college-going kids and non-college-going kids. And the fact is that increasingly, whether you go to college or you don't go to college, if you're going to have a job that you can support a family with, you've got to have high-level math, you've got to have high-level science, you can't get by with a strong back.
That's right, 2188 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. okay. Thank you.
"America's Mayor," Mayor Rendell, has dubbed you "America's School Superintendent," and that's an appraisal I would share. You still remain thoroughly interested, thoroughly dedicated to the job. I have to imagine that you must have been down to your knees at various times, but you have a resiliency that I think bodes well for the school system. Having said those nice words, I'll go on to ask other kinds of questions. (Laughter.)
Tell me, when in this 12-year span of time would you expect that the graduates would be able to do what Councilwoman Miller referred to, pass, say, the sheet metal test, or go to college without having to spend six months to a year in remedial 2189 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. education? When would that come in? 'Cause that didn't exist now, does it with respect to the 48 percent who graduate? I'm sure some of them do, but would have any estimate as to what part of that 48 percent that graduates -- or the 52 percent that graduates --
(Conferring off mike with staff members.) What proportion of the 11th-graders, if somebody will give me that answer, score at the basic level or above? I have no compunction about saying to you that whatever that proportion is, that proportion could go to college, a regular four-year college, without taking remedial courses and be successful. What proportion of the 11th grade. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's over 30 percent in reading. It's over -- it differs by subject. In reading, it's over 30 percent.
And it's up from what? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And it's up from about 25 percent when we started. 2190 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
All right, so 1996, in reading, about percent were able to -- 4
Well, 25 percent of the 7 11th-graders were able to score at the basic level 8 or above. In '98, a little over 30 percent were 9 able to score at the basic level or above. 10 Now, going to your question 11 specifically, in 2002, as we introduce the tougher 12 graduation requirements, that will be the year 13 when a student is not permitted to graduate unless 14 he meets that standard. At this point, that. 15
It's a goal, not an 17 absolute. But the Board, when they passed the new 18 graduation promotion requirements, established 19 2002 at the basic level as the gate that kids 20 needed to meet. 21
All right. Well, I 22 think that's very promising. We're going to hold 23 you to it. Come the year 2002, it will be 24 inscribed in our minutes of this meeting. 25 And I wanted to congratulate Mr. 2191 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Alston's statement that was the statement about an auditing company recommending that we eliminate school health services and that the school system determined not to do that. I think that's an absolutely proper decision. It's one of many we're going to have to make in these days when so-called welfare reform -- actually the removal of all safety-net legislation, as I see it, comes into effect.
And on that question, I raise the question of school tokens. We had SEPTA here the other day, and some of us gave them a little difficult time because they charge the School District something for these school tokens, and the School District in turn charges pupils. In your statement, you say it's $9 a week on average per child for those -- and there are thousands of them -- who have to use school tokens. In these coming days, with the March 3rd deadline here, many, many of those youngsters are not going to have any money available.
That's correct. 2192 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Because cash assistance is the first thing that goes under this Welfare Reform Act. I don't know how anybody manages today to send their kids, and I expect that often, the vacancy rate is, you know, impacted by the inability to provide funds. And I think it's an absolute disgrace at this time, one year before the millennium begins, to have kids not able to go to school because they can't afford car fare. It seems to me, Madam President, that we've got to get SEPTA, the School District, and the City together. (Applause.)
And I think all kids ought to go to school. And I just --
I believe Councilman Kenney wants to be recognized for a point of information.
Thanks. Point of information for the Councilman. We're going to be introducing a resolution on Thursday to ask the Legislative Oversight Committee to put those groups together 2193 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. -- SEPTA, the School District, and any other interested people -- to try to figure out a way that we can get where we all want to be with the transportation of our children.
Well, that's fine. I think that's a very sound, forward step. Because I don't think Philadelphia wants to be known as the place where you can only go even to public school if you can afford to pay tokens in the event you have to go to school.
I'm sorry, I was just going to say, in light of that, I'll ask my staff to get to you some comparisons as it relates also to other cities. There are other cities in the United States where there is some payment that takes place, but if my memory serves me correctly, our kids have to pay about twice as much as the next highest one that is in this survey that we did.
My goal would be to have that payment zero. 2194 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
'Cause I think education -- you know, we're just spending extra money later on by not making it possible for kids to get to school. So it's not an economy worth achieving.
Your time's up, I'm sorry, your time has been up.
Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. Certainly, I agree with all that Councilman Cohen said with regard to tokens and would like to work with Councilman Kenney on this committee. When we talk about -- on December 8th, we held a committee hearing -- the Education 2195 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Committee held a hearing on charter schools, and one of their issues was transportation. And in fact, I some of the transcript, I pulled some of the transcript that states that the School District, in fact, determines its own policy for transportation. And, in fact, I'll read it exactly. And this is a quote: That the most troubling situation to me is the fact that if a parent chooses to send their children to a private school, they would get busing from the Philadelphia school system. If a parent chooses to send their children to a Catholic school, they will get busing from the Philadelphia school system. And more recently, if parents choose to send their children to Bucks County, to the Mosaic School, they will get busing from the Philadelphia school system. But if parents choose to send children to a charter school in Philadelphia, the buses run right by them. At 54th and Wynnefield, there are a number of private and Catholic schools right around there, and our children watch as the buses ride by. That's a quote from during our charter 2196 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. hearings. And, Councilman Cohen, I thought, I would start there because that was an issue that wasn't resolved. In fact, we learned at the hearing that there are a really, really serious unresolved issues. And, hopefully -- it's been a few months since then, we're now in March and that was December 8th. I think we have a little more clarity with regard to this issue. It was said finally that our children get less resources and are put in a dangerous situation of trying to find their way to and from school. Where are we on the status of this whole issue of busing and charter schools?
We continue to implement the State law, both as it relates to charter schools and private schools and Catholic schools, and would expect to continue to do that. And charter schools, under State law, do not -- are not provided transportation, not because of a policy decision that was made by the Board, but a policy decision that was made by the State legislature.
When? 2197 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
So are you saying that a charter school is a private school?
No, I'm saying the charter school is a charter school for which the State law does not provide for transportation.
So you're telling me the State law dictates that we don't have to provide busing for charter schools?
That is what we believe the State law says. There are those that wish it didn't say that.
And this is a part of the school charter school legislation?
It's absolutely very puzzling that a charter school is a public school, but yet they can't take advantage of services that public schools get.
Well, of course, most public school students don't get transportation either. 2198 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
So the charter school kids get the same amount of transportation that most public school students get -- that is none.
In other words, the ten miles beyond the point of the school, do they get that? Or charter schools get absolutely no busing?
That's provided to non-public schools, and charter schools are not non-public schools; charter schools are public schools.
Well, if they're public schools, then they should get what public schools get, but they don't get that, either?
So you're saying legislation does not call for that in the charter school legislation. Let me ask another question with regard to charter schools. They mention -- they mention that they get less money. I asked you this, I 2199 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. know, before, and you answered it, but I don't remember your answer. In fact, I know that can't be my beeper; I only asked one question. It can't be for me. I believe they said they get something like -- I'll tell you exactly in a minute. They get something like, like 5200 when other schools were getting 6800. I'll tell you the exact numbers in a. Would you explain that difference again to us?
Yes, I'd be glad to. The State law provides specifically what is to be included and what is not to be included in the calculation of cost-per-child for a school district. For example, the $6800 to which you refer includes debt service on our buildings and federal funds and transportation. And the State law provides that before you calculate the per-pupil amount of money, you take those kinds of things out, and then you divide the total number of kids in, because we end up having -- For example, no charter school needs to 2200 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. bus non-public schools kids ten miles beyond its border, so this there be no reason to put money in the calculation to do something that they don't do.
Because kids at charter schools come from -- most of them take children from everywhere, am I correct? Anywhere in the City.
The State law governs all of this. I, frankly, on lots points, I would write a different State law. I would not, for example, charge our school's children with $40 million next year. And our kids, our 213,000 kids lose $40 million next year because of the way the State law is drawn. So I'm not quarreling with disagreements over the State law; I'm simply saying to you that these various issues arise 2201 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. under a State law which is, to understate it, imperfectly written.
Councilwoman, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but you really have extended your time.
But I only one got one and a half questions in, only one and a half. Okay.
Thank you, Madam President. Dr. Hornbeck, I'm very interested in my whole district, but the bottom part of my district, mainly in the barrio, we're doing a lot of building of schools. We just opened one at Third and Ontario, and there was a shortage of teachers there. This is pretty much what someone asked you before and I think I know what we're trying to do this. But I just asked Mr. Ramos, Dr. Quierra is the leader of Edison cluster. And him and I 2202 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. talked about this two years ago, and it seems that the way we're going and the way that we should be going, every school that we're going to build should be K to 8, and that seems to be what we're doing. In that barrio part of my district, the bottom, which is the Kensington and Edison cluster, a lot of Edison, we're working on Hunter School, where Pedro Ramos went to school, but when he went to Hunter School, I think he probably went there for two years and jumped around to another school, right, Pedro? And did you go to three different schools before you -- four different schools before you got to 8th grade, right? Right, something like that. He went to a lot of schools but he went to Hunter. What's going on with Hunter can? Hunter's on its way? Can someone give us where we are with Hunter and Burgos and another school that we're going to be building?
I don't have that at my fingerprints but I'll be glad to give you a report on every single school in your --
Do we have anybody 2203 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. here that can answer that? 'Cause I think it's important that as that population explosion explodes, we put the schools where the students need to be, of course, so we don't have to think about the busing and all that. And these young children in that community can go to schools that they can maybe be on the School Board some day and say, Yeah, I went to Hunter, but I went there for eight years or nine years, counting kindergarten. Hunter, where are we on Hunter on the drawing Board?.
Good morning. My name's Ted Skirski, and I'm currently the Director of Design and Construction on an acting basis with the School District of Philadelphia. The Hunter School specifically is still in the property acquisition stage. We're working with the Redevelopment Authority, and that's -- I don't have a specific number for you, but we are working on it.
But the acquisition is always a problem because we're, you know, acquiring property. As compared to where 2204 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. we're going to build Burgos at the old Quaker Light site, which is something that's being condemned, could we talk about that one?
That's definitely going to happen at Fourth and Lehigh, as far as I'm concerned.
There's no 16 individual homeowners or anything like that.
We should have the Burgos property certainly this spring, and I hopefully will have the Hunter property by this summer.
All right, because it actually -- we were dealing with one of the owners of the ground, and it became a political hot potato, so we decided to condemn instead of buying it from the person, and we could have been in that school two years earlier so --
Well, they didn't want to sell. That was their only choice, condemnation.
Okay. Now, others schools, do we have any other schools planned? I know there's some very preliminary talks about Wacco (ph.) Scaffolding site at Jean Hunting Park as Juniata Park explodes, as the Catholic price themselves out of the market, some may say, and Hopkinson becomes overcrowded, even though we built a Little Schoolhouse there. What happens there?
We're looking at an alternative use for Jean Hunting Park. Its original intention was --
So we don't have to condemn anything there, we can just put a school there possibly if --
Sure. We're also looking at a replacement for the Willard School. That's in the very early stages of site acquisition.
As the population of those census tracts explode and places that we already own, like Wacco Scaffolding, which, in my opinion, would be a great location for a school because it will get the kids in Feltonville and the kids in Juniata, and they can all go right in that spot.
Right. And the Carmac (ph.), the apartments, is two buildings into it, we have two more buildings to fill there, and they'll be public school students in there, and there's probably going to be 300 new families in the next two years. And I'm sure were going to have Hopkinson, I mean, Hopkinson already had some problems. I mean, it's an immediate problem, the overcrowding at some of these schools, especially 2207 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. the ones that I'm familiar with.
So we can definitely do something Wacco Scaffolding? Or do we have to --
We're talking to our planning committee, which there is some talk about, you know, specifically doing something for Feltonville and in that area.
Thank you, Madam President. I'll ask the other questions later.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Mr. Hornbeck, when SEPTA was here, we discussed an issue that I think we discussed last year during this budget process. Can you give me an idea how much we spend on transporting students throughout your system?
If you'll give just us a 2208 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. moment, I'll be very specific on that. Mr. Santilli will. . . (Dr. Hornbeck confers off-mike with staff members.)
Does that include the capital investment of the equipment, the buses? Or is that just operation?
No, that's just operation. Actually, it's $33 million for transportation of students, and that includes non-public as well as --
Do you know how much we have invested in equipment? Many school buses do we own?
I'll get the Transportation Director. (John Lombardo comes forward.)
This is John Lombardi, 2209 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. who is the Director of Transportation.
Good morning. We have approximately 650 school buses, Councilman.
New buses cost approximately $60,000, 65, depending if it's a lift bus or a straight bus, depending on the size of the bus.
-- how much out of that $37 million is -- again, I was confused. You said it was --
33 million, okay. How much of that 33 million is money that we spend on rental or other than the 650 buses that we own? 2210 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Well, I don't want anything left out, the big picture. Forgive me, maybe I don't know every term that you're going to use.
We need to make a correction. Have some transportation to be reallocated for special education as well, and I want to include that figure. We're really talking 55 million for transportation, including all public, non-public, regular ed., and special ed.
Does that increase the number of buses, then, from 650 to another number?
The 650 that we own, Councilman, we operate about 520 bus routes. There's approximately 500 additional routes that we contract out for services, and that includes buses and cabs. 2211 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Have you ever thought of -- $55 million is a lot of money.
For transportation, in my opinion. Have we talked to SEPTA at all about some joint venture in trying to reduce the need for the School District of Philadelphia owning 650 buses plus the contractual monies that are spent?
I understand that there are some obstacles in having SEPTA provide some of the service that your 650 buses provide, but I can't believe that we're not talking to try to reduce that number from $55 million -- just -- that's just the operating expenses versus the cost of 650 buses, which sounds lean to me. It's 55,000 for -- you can buy one of those buses for 65,000?
Correct. We're talking about a transit-style bus. 2212 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Would you consider some conversation, or if there's a need for some adjustments to legislation to start moving forward to do that?
Well, we have had conversations with SEPTA regarding the tokens, which were mentioned earlier. In fact, former Councilwoman Fernandez chaired a meeting with us and SEPTA regarding this matter, and there was some discussion about the cost of the tokens, maybe a new fare-collection process. As Dr. Hornbeck indicated, 9 percent of our students, public school students receive transportation, so it's a very small number of public school kids that actually get school busing. A significant number of those students are for special education purposes, which is mandated by the State and federal government. And there's approximately 12 to 13,000 non-public school students who get transportation to points within the City and up to ten miles beyond, in conjunction with State law.
SEPTA has, I think I remember, 2500 vehicles that SEPTA owns. 2213 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
You're getting to the point where you're having quite a big operation, and I just can't understand why the two of you aren't working closer to try to save some money here. (Germaine Ingram comes forward.)
Germaine Ingram, Chief of Staff for the School District of Philadelphia. I'm sitting in for the Superintendent while he stepped out briefly. Councilman Rizzo, the School District of Philadelphia has, for a number of years, attempted to look at alternative ways to deliver transportation services, and those discussions have included SEPTA from time to time. There have been discussions about the possibility of the creation of a transportation authority that would relieve the School District of the substantial burden that transportation -- that transportation creates. We are happy to hear about the proposal that there be renewed discussions under the auspices of the Intergovernmental Oversight 2214 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Committee of this Council so that we can continue to see what ways we can bring down the cost of transportation for the District.
I appreciate that because I don't see any effort -- I don't see any effort from SEPTA's side or your side to really get this thing going, and $55 million is a significant amount of money, plus the capital cost of the 650 buses. I think that if the two of you got together, you could make a significant dent in the amount of money that's spent today in this process.
I would just like to piggyback on that, Miss Ingram. The School District owns 650 buses. How many buses are contracted out for transportation?
We operate approximately 520 routes with those buses, Councilwoman, and there's approximately 500 additional routes that 2215 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. we contract out for services. Our operation is over 1,050 vehicles.
Thank you. Mr. Hornbeck, I think that you are very, very familiar with the overcrowding of just about every school in Southwest Philadelphia. I attended a meeting one night last week at Penrose Elementary School. I will tell you that the parents were absolutely upset, and I could readily understand why. I understand that the school gym is not really a gym but an old closet room. I understand that they have 566 children presently enrolled at Penrose. And in the gym, which was an old storage room, I understand that the gym is adjacent to the boiler room, and they only have one entrance or exit, which I certainly would think would be a violation of the fire code. What are we doing about situations like this?
And I understand -- excuse me -- they have a room which is not even a cafeteria; it's just a vacant room. 2216 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. And I understand they have to have three shifts for children to have lunch.
I think that something has to be done. Now, I did write you a letter concerning that. Are you in a position to tell me at this point in time what you intend to do about that?
Well, I frankly I don't think there's going to be immediate relief for it. The conditions that you describe are ones that are the same in lots of schools across the School District. For example, Northeast High School, speaking of three lunch periods, they have six.
And I will tell you, out in Southwest Philadelphia -- in fact, even the cluster leader said that most of the Realtors state that families that are moving 2217 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. into the community have at least three children, which indicates to me that the problem is just going to get worse.
Oh, I think that's absolutely true. It's one of the issues for at least four years now that I've been trying to put in front of the Council, the state legislature. These aren't -- we did the first facilities audit in the history the School District and identified with great specificity those kinds of issues. I think the fact that both the physical conditions and the unfairness as it relates to the academic programs is an absolute disgrace. And, unfortunately, neither in over-large classes or the absence the pre-kindergarten programs or in the context of overcrowded school buildings, despite the fact that we have more than doubled our capital program in the last four years, it had been down and around $45 million a year back five, six, seven years ago, and because of some of the kinds of conditions that you describe, we've more than doubled it.
Well, apparently, it hasn't been doubled out in this 2218 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. area.
Well, it actually -- I'd be glad to give you the facts on the capital changes in all parts of the City. But the District -- there's no question but that what you describe is one example of the sort of shamefulness with which the School District kids have in effect labored, and there's no excuse for it.
You and I know that, but what do I tell these parents? What do I tell them?
Well, once, among other things, Mr. Kenney and I figure out what this new strategy is going to be, then presumably the parents at Penrose will play a role in that strategy. The fact is that even though we don't have the money, we, as I say, have doubled the -- have more than doubled the capital budget. I think one of things that we may have to face up to, quite apart from pre-kindergarten and from lower class size, is the need to go to an alternative schedule; that is to say, a year-round 2219 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. schedule, in which students still go to school three quarters of the time but some of them go in summer and some of the them go in the fall and some of them go in the winter.
I was going to ask you to elaborate on your statement on the alternative school calendars. Is what you were referring to in your statement?
That's one form, which I honestly believe we will end point having to do because of situations like you describe. To sort of state it simply, if you think of the school year as four quarters --
How does that respond to the fact that these youngsters do not have a gym?
They don't have a cafeteria. I don't know how having alternative school calendars is going to help with that facility.
Well, it ends up meaning that there are fewer kids in the school at any given day, so it has that impact, but it's not 2220 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. going to change the gymnasium or the character of the cafeteria. It will mean that --
You know, your response is not really a response for me. It's my understanding that some of the parochial schools in that district are closing. Have you looked into the possibility of perhaps purchasing or renting one of those schools?
The answer is yes, that we have been examining those alternatives as well.
The initial response was that the parents should not expect any relief at any time soon. And now the response is, Well, we're looking into the parochial school and leasing or purchasing. What is it? Should they expect no 23 response any time soon, or are they going to get more space as a result of the space that's being created by the demise of the parochial schools? 2221 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Unless or until we buy another parochial school, as we have done on multiple occasions, in the next four years, I don't see any relief. But just as we have taken aggressive action in the past and have put six new parochial schools into operation during the last four years, I hope something like that may be able to be possible in this instance, too.
Well, the initial answer was that they shouldn't expect any relief any time soon; and now I have four staff members jump over the rail to tell us that they are doing something about it. And how do we not know what's going on? Either they're getting relief or they're not.
I'm sorry. This gentleman wants to be recognized. Please identify yourself for the record. 2222 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Hi. My name is Tom McGlenchy. I'm the Acting Assistant Managing Director for Business Operations. There are properties that may become available from the Archdiocese in the area that the Council President identified. At this point in time, the Archdiocese's plans for those properties are not firm, and we just cannot make a statement with any certainty that we will be able to obtain any additional space. However, if it becomes available, we are certainly in a position to take advantage of it, as we have with past Archdiocesan properties.
I think that the School District's answer should be -- and I admit that I wasn't paying close attention. I think we have to look at every opportunity to acquire suitable space, but we want to be very certain that we don't buy the kinds of buildings that we 2223 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. are walking away from, that are already in our system. There are plenty of boarded-up public school buildings that cannot be made to fit the standard. And unless and until we are offered some material, some access to schools that are better than the ones that we are closing down, I don't think we ought to offer a false hope to the Archdiocesan schools or the private schools or any other system that's got excess buildings. We should only have and take over those buildings that are located where we need them to be and are in the condition that we need them to be in or that can be reasonably adapted to meet our needs. But I don't think that we should be the dumping ground for used-up buildings.
We're not suggesting that, Councilwoman, we really are not suggesting that.
I understand that that's not what your intent is, but I'm suggesting to the School District that despite the fact that there may be a number of excess buildings by virtue of Archdiocesan schools being closed, that 2224 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. we ought to very carefully evaluate each opportunity and make sure that it is an opportunity and not just a way to be friendly to a system that is having some difficulty. I don't want to see us become the dumping ground for buildings that are no longer useful to the Archdiocesan system.
We share that commitment, and it is five schools that we've refurbished. The five Archdiocesan schools that we have bought and put into operation are --
Do you know specifically where the five are? St. Callistus, I think, was the last one.
I recall one in the West Philadelphia area. There's St. Callistus, which now houses the Overbrook education center. And there's St. -- I believe it's St. Steven's at Fifth and Cayuga, where we invested an appreciable amount of money. St. Henry and Our Lady of Pompeii. And that's four. 2225 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
But my concern specifically is about Southwest Philadelphia. And at the meeting last week, the parents of many of the children were saying that they could see no reason why an addition could not be made to the present school building because they desperately need additional classrooms, they definitely need a gymnasium, they need a cafeteria. And then I sent a member of my staff to another meeting last week which I could not attend, and it was about the much-needed repairs at the Bartram Motivation School, there's a need for a new library there. It's my understanding that the computer room has been closed for weeks because, apparently, they're doing some renovation work, they're painting. I don't know why we can't paint school buildings in the summertime. The lunchroom, again, is a disgrace. It is designed for elementary school children. All of the following schools are filled to their capacity in Southwest Philadelphia: Catharine, Morton, Patterson, and Penrose. Mr. Hornbeck I am telling you, I 2226 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. definitely want a response to both of my letters that I sent to you. And please don't tell me that this is a problem that's existing and you just don't know what we're going to do about it. Something must be done.
I will certainly respond to the letters. And as we have in the past, across the city, everything that can be done is going to be done, including continuing these conversations that -- to which Mr. McGlenchy and others relate.
Well, I think before the passage of this budget, I would like either you or someone from the School District to take a tour with me to visit some of these schools so that they could see firsthand exactly what I'm talking about.
I have a couple of questions. Is my time up? I'm being told my time is up. (Laughter.)
But you have the 2227 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. presidential prerogative.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just one comment relative to something that the Superintendent said about the development of a new strategy to deal with Harrisburg. I think that's your job. Your job is to figure out over the next two years what we did wrong and what you need to do right to get yourself back on the right track in Harrisburg. My relationship with Harrisburg for the individual that I am as a Councilman isn't bad. I think that the problems that were created or exist are something that you need to deal with. Now, if you want my advice, I'd be happy to offer it when you need it. However, you have a two-year contract to correct that situation. That's not my responsibility. It's something, if you would like me to help you with, I will, but this is not something that is outside the scope of your ability to get done if it's 2228 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. approached in a different way.
Well, it's one of those areas where I think we don't entirely agree with one another. One of the mistakes, in fact, over the last 30 years, in my judgment, is that the expectation is that somehow all of the relationships, including political relationships with Harrisburg, belong to the School District. We certainly carry a major portion of that, but I confess that I reject the notion that it belongs to the School District alone. It is the City of Philadelphia whose School District this is.
Well, I just think that trying not to alienate everyone west of City Line Avenue may be a good start and the right direction.
Well, I tend to think that raising test scores and dealing with costs is an important set of initiatives that we present to you as measurable evidence of this. And I must admit that I do wish that I would hear some major celebration from some folks about doing what a school district is supposed to do -- and that is 2229 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. improving reading, math, and science.
What is your definition of "administrative personnel"? What is administrative personnel, and what is your definition of "instructional personnel"?
Well, a teacher is clearly instructional. And I'm an administrator. Now, in between me and the teacher, there are lots of people that fall along that spectrum.
Well, I think, for example, of the instructional leader of each school, the principal being an instructional person, and he's not in the classroom.
A principal by definition is not an administrator of that facility?
What is a cluster 2230 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. leader? Is that an administrative or instructional person?
I think of a facilitator, for example, as an instructional person.
I guess the confusion is that how we count instructional people versus administrative people, and whether or not the people who are actually doing the work in the clusters -- training, administration -- are being counted as instructional people and, therefore, maybe are misleading some of us I guess as to what levels of people are actually doing and what levels of people are doing administration.
Well, in terms of what I've laid out in front of you, it would be -- I 2231 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. guess the Secretary of Education that was misleading you because we do apples and apples on the State Department of Education forms. And when I reported to you a little while ago that we spend more of each dollar on instruction than on other costs, that's State Department of Education definitions.
I'm just trying to understand, under this cluster system, which individuals are considered and counted as instructional individuals, instructional personnel that are not in the classroom, or if there are any. I mean, I'll go down the list. Cluster leader would be an administrator.
Yeah, we can tell you -- in fact, it's in the budget book and I'd be glad to point it out.
A cluster leader, you've testified, is an administrative in your mind. (Jack Meyers comes forward.) 2232 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
For the record, my name is Jack Meyers. I am the Director of Financial Planning and Analysis. And one of my responsibilities is the editing the budget book. With respect to the tables and charts in the book where we divide everything by function, it is an attempt to align the book with commonly-held definitions. There are multiple definitions, and even among the State and Price Waterhouse and ourselves. However, now, with regard to the cluster leaders, they are obviously administrative personnel. I'd like to make the differentiation between administrator, O-R, and administrative, I-V-E, because administrative personnel, which is what we use in this definition, includes their secretaries as well and support personnel as well.
Are they counted as instructional or administrative? Let me go down the --
Cluster leaders are 2233 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. administrative. The administrative assistant to the cluster leader is --
We have a very broad definition, and even with our broad definition, it is a smaller percentage than you'll find most anywhere.
That's not my question. The question is: Are there people who are counted as instructional that are not in the classroom?
Outside the book. 2234 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Facilitators are listed as training and professional, which the State calls "instructional support."
For my nonprofessional educational administrator mind, the person -- is anybody counted as an instructional personnel that's not in the classroom?
As I said, there's another column right next to it that's called "In-School Instructional Leadership and Support."
No. Now, the first column would include teachers as well as paraprofessionals.
Teachers, we don't have any argument with, no argument.
I think that time 2235 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. is -- I don't know, I'm confused. It's like --
I don't know that Councilman Kenney's question has been answered.
Well, I want to do it because there's nothing misleading about this, so as long as Madam President will let us stay with it, I think that there's nothing in here that's counted as instructional who's not in the classroom.
Then why the caveat that it's not in the book? That is intriguing. Why would it not be in the book?
Because the definitions I've used in the book are the ones that I believe you're reading from. What I'm saying to you is there is a Price Waterhouse methodology of classifying, which is different, and the State's, which is slightly different. I'm trying to refer to the one that's in front of you here.
Are there people on the payroll of the School District of Philadelphia that are not in the classroom that are being 2236 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. counted as instructional personnel?
We're doing the budget, this is the budget book. Is there some other book?
Let me ask a different question. Are there people who are counted as instructional by the State who are not in the classroom?
Okay, that's the reason we refer to the book 'cause the State counts it differently.
Off the top of my head, I'd have to go through it. It's a very convoluted 2237 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. structure. They have two categories: one is called "instruction," and the other is called "instructional support." Some of the things that you and I would commonly think of as instruction, they have as "instructional support."
Let me ask you a question; you don't have to answer it now, but you can give it to me in writing.
I just need to know how many people are counted as instructional by the State that's not in the classroom on a daily basis doing what functions as we all understand to be teaching.
Right. The only teachers I have in this column that are listed are classroom teachers.
But as the State counts them, if you could give me that list.
Of how many there 2238 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. are and what their salaries are.
Thank you, Madam President. Dr. Hornbeck, I'd like to ask you a series of questions, keeping in mind with either your testimony or some statements made by President Alston. On of President Alston's testimony -- and I don't necessarily expect an answer immediately -- there is this statement: "When children come to school hungry, have chronic diseases which remain untreated because their parents have no health insurance or have to worry about where they will lay their head each night because their family is homeless, they are not going to perform at high academic levels" -- which I would agree with the statement. Is there any way, though, of giving an estimate or a calculation to how many children fit 2239 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. in any one of those three categories?
We can give you an estimate of the kids who do not have, for example, health insurance, either Medicaid or health insurance.
And we've been on a campaign to cut that back, and we've added about 4,000 to the rolls of those who do have access to health support.
If my memory serves me correctly, that leaves us about 8 or 9,000 who do not, by way of example.
That's the one where the numbers are clearest because we can actually track that.
Okay, whatever it is you that you can get to us through the Chair, I would greatly appreciate it on that issue. In Section 1 of the selected issues, the briefing papers book, Section 1, has a section on attendance, promotion, and persistence. 2240 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. And the numbers, as presented, are that you had staff present more than 95 percent of the time, and that increased from 41.8 from to 54.5 percent for the fall of '95 to the spring of '98. Not to end up in the same kind of quagmire discussion as the earlier one, staff, is that teaching staff, is that all staff, is that everybody at a school, is that everybody in the entire District? What does the term cover?
That includes all the staff at the school, not just teachers.
Okay. Can you break that out by category or by job function? In other words, can you tell me what the teacher component of that is, if there's an administrator or an administrative component and if there are other people who work at the school who have nothing to do, obviously, with instruction or administration.
We have not reported the 2241 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. data yet that way, but I think we can do it so we'll get you that.
Okay. I mean, is 95 percent present so high or unreasonable a rate for people to be at work that the number in the spring of '98 was 54.5 percent?
We believe that 95 percent, we arrived at that number for two reasons. One is that across the United States, the average absenteeism rate each day is 5 percent, and we were a couple years ago at 10 percent. So we decided that if we could get it to the national average, then that wouldn't be half bad. And the other reason is that in the 4 or 5 percent range, that begins to be sort of a reasonable thing.
Right, no, I understand that. Can you give us -- not today. Can you give us what those percentages are for 90 percent?
All right. And, lastly, does that figure specifically for teachers, does that include teachers who are 2242 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. either out on sabbatical or possibly long-term or even short-term disability or injury or sickness or anything like that?
It does not include teachers out on sabbatical, but I believe it includes every other reason for not being present. Because this is not about individual teacher absenteeism; it's about the school. There's another whole set of rules and regulations that relate to like disciplinary factors related to absenteeism.
I cannot give you that off the top of my head, but we can certainly give you that.
Okay. Yeah, I'd like to see that at other district facilities that are not places where students learn. And now, the student numbers, unfortunately, are even lower -- 95 percent attendance, 34.3 percent in the fall, I guess, of '95; and 42 percent in the spring of '98. So can you get me the 90 percent 2243 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. numbers --
-- as well? And on any given day, what's the general student attendance?
Well, it's different for the different levels. High school, for example, it's down around 78 percent; and at middle school, about 82 percent; and at elementary school, above 90 percent, about 92 percent.
It's 78 for high school, 82 for middle schools, and about 92 percent for elementary schools.
In the 78 percent of high school, what is percent of the high 19 school population? How many students is that? 20
I think there's roughly 21 5,000 kids in grades 9 to 12. About 55,000 kids 22 in high school, and so 78 percent of that is whatever it is.
You say that on any given day, there are 10,000 high-school students 2244 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. not in school?
Because 22% of 9 55,000 is 10, 11,000 students, right? I mean, I 10 did that well in math. 11
All right. In 14 Section 2, this is the Philadelphia Education 15 Fund, I believe, Study. On , there is a 16 recommendation to modify or eliminate the 17 residency requirement for teachers. 18 What was the genesis of this particular 19 study? This is Dr. Elizabeth -- is that Useen? 20
Well, the Philadelphia 21 Education Fund is an independent entity of the 22 School District but is very much our partner in this process.
And the actual genesis 2245 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. of that particular study -- I'm not -- the Human Resources Office of the School District asked for it. Dr. Useen is the Director of Research at PEF and does really quality work, and we ask them to do things like that for us.
I understand. Do you recall what the -- I mean, I obviously know what "eliminate the residency requirement means," but do you know what the recommendation was by way of modifying the residency requirement? What did the study actually call for? I wasn't able to discern that from the materials that I have here. What did they mean by that?
I don't know specifically, but we can give you the full study. My guess is that it was that in areas of acute need, that it be lifted for a temporary period of time.
Well, they're the kind of things that I mentioned to the President a little while ago. Historically, most severely, 2246 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. higher math, higher science, special education, music in the last three years, world languages. Those kinds of areas.
Are those areas that you're facing the most critical shortages?
Along the continuum, those are the ones at the high end. As I was suggesting a little while ago, for the first time, areas like -- even including grade-school teachers, we are beginning to have shortages as well. But the most acute shortages are in those areas. And, in fact, you have some material here in this book, I think, under Page -- is it 2? Okay, it's Tab 2, the second page where it indicates, for example, the retirement-eligible teachers -- 16 percent of all our math teachers, 13 science, 15 reading, etc.
Those are the most likely new vacancies next year, if this retirement window actually closes. So it's beginning to hit across the board but it's still most acute at those higher levels of math and so on. 2247 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
I would like to piggyback on that a minute, please.
Oh, okay, I understand. Well, it's the prerogative of the Chair.
Tab 2 is somewhat contradictory, though. On , it's also stated that nearly two-thirds of those declining a position who responded to the District survey did, in fact, accept jobs in other districts. So I would think it's the fact that in the suburban schools, they are being paid more. And certainly the condition of the schools is so much better. I mean, I'm sure that if I had an opportunity to teach in a suburban school, I would probably accept that more readily than I would, for example, a school like Penrose, where they're 2248 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. so overcrowded and the conditions are so deplorable, I would go to a suburban school. So I don't know that it's just the residency requirement.
I don't that you didn't say it, but that's a part of the report.
Well, what the surveys yield, as I said earlier, are three primary reasons, and they include what you just said.
Thank you. Mr. Hornbeck, you indicate that before the spring of 2000, you expect additional revenue from government -- local, State and/or federal. What is the total amount of the additional revenue you are expecting? What are your expectations with regard to local funding?
Well, we -- we need to go as far as we can to fill the $94.5 million gap we have right now. And the first objective is to get that down low enough so that we can maintain adequate cash flow to pay our bills from July to 2249 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. next June, and that's going to take a minimum of 40 or $50 million. We may be able to maintain adequate cash flow even if we continue to have a budgetary gap of as much as 30 or 40 or 50 million. Last year, for example, we had 52.5 million that permitted that to happen. My present expectation, though I would certainly be more than happy to accept more, is that Council would vote to give us the $15 million grant that the Mayor has proposed. But if there are other ways that we can work together to enhance revenue even further than that, that would more than terrific.
On the detailed budget, I'd like to know why you are project to go receive less in 1999-2000 in local non-tax revenues.
There are two factors in there -- the William Penn Grant, which is a two-year grant -- a three-year grant, excuse me, which ends in the current fiscal year. And interest earnings for the District we expect to be less for two reasons -- the lower interest rate 2250 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. currently and our lower cash balances available for investment.
On your detail, you show a projected deficit in the 2000-2001 Operating Budget of $532 million. Why are you projecting an increase of approximately $300 million in cost? When do your labor contracts expire, and what are the labor assumptions you have indicated in your budget?
The labor contract, three of them expire this August, and one of them expires in August of 2000. And that projection, if I'm not mistaken, includes nothing beyond the -- nothing beyond the moment when those expire for the labor contracts. The reason for the $300 million increase that you refer to lies in the Fair Opportunities to Learn document that I mentioned a little bit earlier. It is the reduced class size, pre-kindergarten programs, the extra help for kids who will otherwise fail, etc. And that's comes to the $300 million. 2251 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. It's what we identify as necessary by way of resources for us over that one-student generation to get to the world-class standards for 95 percent of the kids.
I know earlier the Price Waterhouse Coopers report that was done for the State indicated the School District could generate savings of approximately $577 million over the next five years. You've indicated in your earlier testimony that you disagreed with their assumptions. Have you shared your concerns and/or disagreements with the Price Waterhouse? And if so, what was their response?
Well, actually, I said in my testimony that it was the independent review of the Management and Productivity Committee of Greater Philadelphia First that disagreed with Price Waterhouse, not me.
Well, whoever disagreed, did they ever take this up? And what was the response?
It basically was -- I mean, in one sentence -- that Price Waterhouse 2252 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. continued to believe that what they had said was correct; including, for example, the student health issue that we talked about earlier where Price Waterhouse recommended that we reduce those expenditures by $20 million and let somebody donate that. We don't -- GPF and we disagree that student health insurances should be donated services. Price Waterhouse, I guess, thinks that somebody's going to give $20 million worth of health services to somebody.
On Page A-11, "System-wide Summary of Positions for Basic Building Services," would you explain what services are provided by this unit, and why there are over 580 non-teaching assistants in this category?
Basic building services include all of our facilities management staff in terms of custodial as well as maintenance. It also includes our security officers who are school police, and it also includes our non-teaching assistants. These are paraprofessionals school-based personnel who are not in the classroom and provide basic support throughout the 2253 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. building, oftentimes looked upon as adding a measure of security throughout the building.
Do you mind going over that briefly, please? Because as I said, I was distracted.
Okay. This category of services includes services to the school buildings as opposed to the school children directly. It includes all of our custodial and maintenance staff, it includes our school police officers, as well as a group of personnel known as "non-teaching assistants," who are in-school personnel, who are not in the classrooms but add a measure of support and security throughout the buildings.
Now, does the School District hire their own painters? And how about people that repair roofs?
Yes, they do. There's, of course, a mixture of -- some services are rendered 2254 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. by contract, and some by our own personnel.
Well, whoever's here from that department, I would suggest that they look at the Barratt Motivation School because the roof has been leaking, and apparently, they were out there to do some work and never went back. So if somebody's here from that department, I suggest that they return.
We were on the scene with your representative at the walk-through, and we noted all of your concerns and we will address them. I also need to tell you that we have invested over a million, million and a half dollars in that facility over the past three or four years, so we have been addressing some of those needs.
You spent all of that money and we still don't have a library? And the books are as old as I am, I guess. And that's old, that's old. MR. MCGLENCHY; the expenditures were to repair the facility.
That's not very old, 2255 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Madam President.
Thank you, Councilman, I appreciate that. (Laughter.)
I would like to have a list of what you've done at that school, please.
And I'd like to know what work you were doing there to make the necessary improvements. And, again, Mr. Hornbeck, I hate to be a nag, but I am telling you, I definitely want a positive answer on Penrose School like yesterday -- because, I'm telling you, I have heard from many of the parents. They're really very, very upset. I don't think that you would like to see any one of your children going to school under those conditions because I certainly wouldn't want 2256 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. to seen one of mine. Why are you projecting sabbatical leave to increase?
Madam President, could I add something about the condition of the schools to make the record a little bit tighter.
Perhaps it would be useful, Mr. Hornbeck, if you responded to the questions that the Councilwoman has raised and give her a before and after. Surely, you have some pictures of the deplorable conditions that she reports. If you could give her a before and after, you could give her confidence that, one, her request was important, and, two, you were making some substantial effort to respond.
At the Bartram Motivation, but there are -- the before-pictures would certainly be much better for Penrose than they are now. 2257 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Right. I mean, I just think that to give you a request and let it go into the vast unknown, without having some response, is upsetting to the elected officials, most especially the President, and I think that you ought to give her some response in writing with as many pictures as promote your position as you can provide.
We certainly will respond. And I've got a sneaking suspicion that Madam President wouldn't let me have things go into the vast unknown anyhow, so --
I don't think so. And, as I said, if need be, you and I are going to take each other's hands and go through every one of these facilities because I just think that something needs to be done. Please tell me why you're projecting sabbatical leave to increase to $20 million in FY '98-'99 and then decrease to $12.2 million in '99-2000.
You're referring to termination pays; sabbatical leave is on the next line. But I'll be glad to answer those questions. 2258 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Yes. The number you're looking at is termination pay. The large amount for termination pay this year happens to be with respect to the 30-and-out window; we expect a tremendous amount there, and then it will obviously drop off because some of the people who otherwise would have retired the following year, you know, retire this year. If your question is with respect to sabbatical, it's going up by a very slight amount over the three years, roughly equal to the rise in salaries. It represent, however, in all of those years listed on that page as something about 60 percent of what it was three years ago, before we instituted tighter controls and the State also changed its requirements.
For the record, you can you tell us, when a teacher takes a sabbatical, is there a portion of their salary that's paid them?
There is? And 2259 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. what position is that, and how long could the sabbatical be for?
Most sabbaticals are either a half a year or a full year, and they are 50 percent in most -- nearly all circumstances are 50 percent of their salary.
When a teacher takes a sabbatical, is it to further education? Do they have to show proof that they have gone to school for --
The answer is, yes, they do. But there are other types of sabbaticals.
That's it. Now that they've changed it, yeah, there is a study and whatever, as you described it, so it's just a different --
I'll take 2260 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. that as your response. I would like to know what twilight schools are remedial discipline schools. I know what the Able Academies are. In accommodation capacity, are we referring to detention rooms as we all once knew them?
Well, just as an example, the twilight schools are schools that are operated in late afternoons generally in trying to attract students back to schools who had dropped out.
It would be different from one school to the next, but generally, it's like from 3 to 8 rather than from 8 to 3.
I'm sorry, 3 to 8 p.m.? 2261 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
How old are these youngsters at these twilight schools?
And kids who return from incarceration, kids who are coming back from welfare. Kids with whom we have not otherwise been successful are frequently good candidates for twilight school. We now have ten of them.
And are they located in all sections of the City?
And the remedial discipline schools, is that Daniel Boone and --
Accommodation capacity again, is that detention rooms? What are they? We're getting so fancy with these names that -- 2262 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
They are basically detention rooms, time-out rooms. One of the issue that teachers frequently raise, and these are all in elementary schools, are kids that become disruptive. And until three years ago, there was basically no place to send them in most schools, and so provided the capacity for accommodation.
But they're what we once call "detention rooms"?
Okay. In the Able Academies, do we still have six Able Academies throughout the City?
I think that they have had a mixed experience. I don't think they've been as successful as we would have liked for them to. In fact, we're reviewing the way in which they function. That we need a place for middle school kids to be sent when they have particularly behavioral problems of a sustained character is 2263 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. absolutely clear, and there never had never been such a place before we started it, but I don't think we have found entirely the right formula yet for that.
Do we have a psychologist going in to visit the youngsters at Able Academies?
Thank you, Madam Chair. On the full budget, -02, which is the charter school budget -- I'm sorry, did I go out of turn?
No. 19 Everybody's lights were on, then they're off. I don't know whether we're having trouble back here or. . . Councilman Kenney.
Your light works better than mine. (Laughter.) 2264 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
I have friends in the electricians union. In Section 8-02, it's the section on the charter schools, there's a line item here that's for a '99-2000 request for 57 at $1.7 million for classroom teachers. Are we providing classroom teachers for charter school?
No, sir. As the explanation entails, on the enrollment page in the book, in various places, we take the enrollment out as if we had these couple thousands kids actually just come right out. But, as we all know, they don't come out in neat packages of 30 in any given school, let alone in any given grade. And so this is created as a percentage of the calculated value of the enrollment decline, because we will take these 57 -- they're in reserve -- to put into our regular classrooms where we see -- where it does not come out to be the savings that the sheer numbers would suggest. For example, if a school, you have 30 fewer kids because they're going to a charter school, you will not necessarily be able to reduce the allotments of that school by one teacher, 2265 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. because those kids could be scattered in grades 1 through 8, so we have a reserve, and it's calculated at approximately 40 percent of the calculation.
They are cost to us as a result of the charter experience. We will end up using those teachers, allotting them --
Well, after we dropped -- on the other pages that you've seen, you've seen a drop of, in this particular case, about 100, just over 100 teachers, 120, 130 teachers as a direct result of the charter enrollment. But we're saying we won't achieve those 120 or 130 positions.
So there's a line 2266 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. item here asking for 57 more positions as classroom teachers in the charter section of the budget.
Well, why don't we just put it in the other section as opposed to putting it in the charter section? 'Cause for someone like myself who reads this, it would lead me to believe that there's 57 classroom teachers in charter schools throughout the City or throughout the region that we're providing for charter schools. And do we count them as instructional personnel?
We count the 57 teachers; when they're assigned, they will be in classrooms. If I can call your attention to Section 20 B of the book, there is a written explanation. Part B is -- the page is prefaced with B.
So we're not providing -- so the short answer is that we're not providing classroom teachers for charter schools.
No, sir. This is an 2267 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. offset that reflects the fact that although we technically calculate that we should be able to lose 120, 130, 140 teachers, we're only going to be able to cut down on our expenses by about 55, 65 percent of that.
Well, also, I don't know what grade level these will be in. I will assign these 57 when I know that they'll be elementary, middle, or high school.
All right. Can you tell me what a "post-secondary readiness coordinator" is?
What is their salary? 21 (Dr. Hornbeck confers off mike with 22 staff members.)
It's in the mid-sixties. They are the individuals who are responsible for working with teachers and principals and others to 2268 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. secure the apprenticeship slot all across the City, of which last year we had 3500, and the service learning slots, of which we had 7500 last year. But according to the new graduation and promotional requirements, by 2002, we will require 70,000.
And are these counted as instructional or non-instructional.
That's right. They would not be in the"Instructional" column.
And are they administrative or administrator? (Laughter.)
They're probably both, but 2269 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. they're not instructional.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Clark.
Thank you, Madam President. I would like to join the discussion that Mr. Kenney raised with respect to a coordinated approach at the Harrisburg level to get some changes made. He didn't say this, but let me put my own spin on it. I do think that everybody needs to lower their voice and look for cooperative ways to do a job that neither of us can avoid doing. The State, by charter, has an obligation to provide an education system for residents of the State, so it's not something that they do because they're good guys; it's something that they do because there's a Constitutional requirement. And we in Philadelphia have no less obligation to educate our youngsters, and I think we need an intergovernmental cooperation agreement 2270 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. where each of us determines what we can do differently to achieve this objective. There's no reason to fight. That's the reason to cooperate. And so I think that there needs to be that, Mr. Superintendent, you might be the person who needs to call the meeting. But if you don't call it, I think you should attend any meeting that is called because we need everybody's best thoughts on this issue. Having said that, I now wish you to tell me, what is our strategy? I heard the Mayor in his State-of-the-City message, when he promised the School District the dollars that would be freed up from not funding the courts. That's a big chunk of dollars, maybe $100 million a year?
That's 160 million recurring dollars for one line item that goes to courts to another line item that goes to schools. Every day that those dollars don't get in the School District's budget, we have the odd situation of Philadelphia public school children subsidizing the courts. The money that should be 2271 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. coming to schools is going to the courts. So the State runs a surplus while the school children are going out of the world backwards. Now, is that a reason to sit down an talk? Yes. Should it be soon? Yes. I don't care who calls the meeting, but everybody ought to show up. Because we cannot countenance the continuation of this bad situation. It needs to be done. The Mayor needs to put some teeth in it. It was a fine speech; now it needs to have a plan superimposed on it with a timetable when somebody takes step one to cause it to happen. It will not happen because it ought to; it will only happen because it is caused to happen. And I would hope, Mr. Superintendent, that you would take that as your responsibility to delegate it to somebody so that that starts to happen. We have examples of it. The Kvaerner deal is the best example of the three levels of government pulling at the same time to the advantage of all three levels of government. But Kvaerner will, at its best, produce a few thousands jobs. If we could make public 2272 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. schools work on a dedicated funding stream that is substantial, we can change the life chances of these youngsters. Now, what does it take to make all of us think that's worth doing? I don't know, but I'm just giving you my best shot at it.
Thank you, Councilwoman Clark. I agree with your conclusions. And there's no question but that we are prepared in any form or fashion to sit and try to find constructive solutions not only to our own problems, but my guess is, it would have to take place in finding solutions to problems of other kids around the State, because an awful lot of us are in the same boat together.
Another example that you raised is, can we jointly talk about extending the early retirement system so that we don't take that group off retirement so that people take advantage of what they believe is a benefit that will go and never come again? Another item on the agenda, when the coordinated committee meets is, how can we extend the retirement so as not to have this big bump 2273 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. like we had when people mellowed out? And how can we talk about ways to turn money into a line item for the School District? Madam Chair, I'm aware of the beeper and I am abiding by it.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Dr. Hornbeck, I'd like to go back to where we were when I last had the pleasure of chatting with you. This Section 2, and I think it's on , you have, in response to a question from the Chair, listed three challenges, if you will, with regard to teacher recruitment. They were in order, I believe: residency, school selection, and financial issues. It's listed in the book here as loan, payback, and salary. Is this also out of the PEF study, or is that from another study?
This actually comes not only from the PEF study but from our own independent surveys of people. 2274 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Okay, all right. And we've had some discussions certainly about residency. I think you indicated that you were going to get me a copy of someone else's study that talked about what the modification would be. You've been, probably for all of your years of superintendency, in many of the discussions -- at least publicly, probably some privately -- about concerns revolving around the residency requirement, and I think you actually changed or tightened or improved your residency requirement even for your cabinet members. Didn't we have that go-around a couple of years ago?
All right. Tell us a little bit about the other two issues -- school selection and the financial issues. And let me start with the financial first. Has any real study done of a comparison between what Philadelphia's starting salary is and, I guess, maximum salary over some period of years as compared to the other school districts around us -- class size, per-pupil spending, a whole array of factors that might lead someone to 2275 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. be here or be somewhere else. Has that kind of work been done?
We have done some of that. I said a little earlier that the starting salary gap is $3,000 -- it's actually closer to 3500. It's also the case that we're down at the bottom of the average salary for the 61 other school districts in Southeastern Pennsylvania. To my knowledge, for purposes of human resources, I don't know of any study that has lined up relative class size and some of the other factors that you mentioned, and I think that's a good idea, and I think we ought to see if we can't take a pretty good shot at finding out what that is. I mean, obviously, when you have $1500 less per student to spend in each classroom, one of the things that that's going to get spent on is lower class size, and so we're going to -- we don't have to do a study to figure out that we're going to be at the short end of that stick as well. It goes back to what President Verna said a little while ago: that if you have larger 2276 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. class sizes and, in many instances, more challenging kid and more dilapidated buildings and etc., etc., it's going to present significant challenges in recruiting teachers. That said, I must say that we've got 12,000 folks that the vast majority of whom in the classroom are doing a very dedicated job, and we get hundreds of people every year who want to teach in Philadelphia 'cause they want to teach in Philadelphia because they care about the kids here.
So I don't want to paint this in some entirely negative way, but those represent big-time issues for us.
On the other financial issue, you have listed here as "loan payback." Is there any data or information that indicates that other systems either around us or possibly in other large urban areas who may get assistance from their state or county governments? Are there incentive programs that exist or can be created that allow you to attract people based on the motion that, I know you just 2277 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. got out of school, you probably have a fair amount of debt, there are ways of debt forgiveness if you commit to being in X-Y-Z place for X-amount of time? Do any of those programs exist around us, or are we able to create any on our own?
They no longer exist for our teachers. There used to be both a federal program and a State program that did precisely that, and tens of thousands -- scores of thousands of teachers who began their teaching experience -- I guess those really began to go into place in about 1957 or '58. There was some Sputnik impetus to that, and they carried through all across the nation until not too many years ago. But in Pennsylvania, all that's dried up. And yet, it's one of the things that really did lure young people into teaching.
Well, did I understand from the earlier discussion and I think the Chair made reference to maybe a story on TV somewhere last night or some newspaper article 24 that indicated that we're not the only ones that are facing teacher shortages or teacher 2278 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. recruitment problems. Is this an issue that can be raised at a higher level that might allow for a next wave of these kinds of programs? I mean, we're talking now 40 years later. If you're saying that this started back in the late '50's and we're now in the late '90s, people have kind of gone through an entire career now of teaching, and a lot of these people are people leaving. And is this now a time to bring some of these kinds of programs back?
We absolutely agree with that, and the Council of Great City Schools, which is the organization made up of Philadelphia and about 47 other big cities in the United States, one of the things that they've been pressing is the re-institution of federal forgiveness programs, and, certainly, it's been something that we've had conversations with folks in Harrisburg. They do again fall into the category of they cost money.
Can you very 2279 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. briefly explain that process?
Well, there are two things. There are both timing and absolute selection. The selection of schools is governed by the contract. And for the most part, seniority determines -- seniority, and with new teachers, scores on tests determines where you go and. So there is --
And so there's very, very little flexibility in terms of where a person is assigned. And our system in Philadelphia remains one of the most rigid in the country.
I'm sorry, Councilman Nutter, your time has been up.
Mr. Hornbeck 2280 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. can respond to your last question, and then we'll have another go-around.
Dr. Hornbeck's statement was that the system in Philadelphia is rather rigid or is more rigid than most other places in the country. My question to him was, what does that mean and in comparison to what?
Well, the restrictions that, for example, arise out of the seniority provisions in our contract are a lot more rigid than most of the other big-city contracts in the United States. And that means that there is a much more locked-step assignment of people based just on seniority than there are on in other places, and that reduces flexibility. It's just a fact of the contract. It's something that, up into this point, both we and the Federation have agreed to, and so I'm just describing at this moment the fact. 2281 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. The other thing that plays in that is the fact that there are dates in the contract which have to occur sometime in July, I think, before the assignment of teachers can begin. Or if it begins before that, somebody who's assigned that is, for example, less senior, may be dislodged later if a more senior person wants to go into that position. So that the kind of -- if we hire a young teacher in April and we want to be able to say to that teacher, In April, you're going to be teaching in X elementary school, we can't do that because of these various restrictions on placement.
Well -- but you're saying that this brand new teacher, possibly knowing very little about the Philadelphia public schools, is making a decision whether to come here or not based on what may be very little that they know about the system in general? And if they can't go to the school that they want to go, they just decide not to come here at all? I mean, is that what happens?
In some instances. And 2282 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. we have increased very significantly the number of student-teachers, for example. So it's not as if somebody's coming here from Idaho and, you know, arrives on the airplane and says, you know, where is North, South, East, and West Philadelphia? I mean, a lot of these young people are people from student-teachers, went to Temple, went to Cheyney, you know, etc., etc.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We've known about this problem for a little bit of time, haven't we, as far as our ability to recruit teachers and the rigidity of our situation here that has kept us from being a successful effort?
The provisions of the contract have basically been what they are for quite a long time, yes. The availability of teachers and the vacancies has increased dramatically. 2283 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Why, then, didn't we attempt to negotiate that either out or differently when we negotiated and settled the last contract? Why wasn't that a major provision of efforts? Maybe the union would have accepted something in lieu of changing -- or in exchange for changing that rigid policy. Why isn't it that these kind of work rule changes, why weren't they accomplished in the last contract?
Those were major issues for us, and we were unsuccessful in securing them.
Okay. The PFT, I understand, had indicated that they would be interested or at least proposed to create an academy-type high school would, in fact, train teachers, future teachers. Are you aware of any such proposal, and is this any movement in that direction? I mean, it seems like a logical solution of helping our problem of finding teachers when we have a special school for people who are interested in becoming teachers, and maybe it would attract some Philadelphia residents with some promise of future opportunities in the school 2284 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. system.
That particular proposal from the Federation hasn't come to my attention, but I think that the notion of special initiatives where we grow our farm team, in a sense, makes a lot of sense. I don't know about singling out one school off some place but having -- it used to be, years ago, for example, that there was even an organization called "Future Teachers of America" that I think went out of existence now years 12 ago, and we should start things like that 13
What's wrong with 14 creating a separate school to do this as we do 15 with arts and culture, as we do with engineering 16 and science, as we do with other things? Why 17 can't we -- what's wrong with creating it only for 18 teachers? 19
I don't know that 20 there's necessarily anything wrong with it. There might be something more right with making that opportunity more conveniently available in the neighborhoods around the City, especially when you need so many teachers.
There were, I 2285 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. understand, last year 3,000 applications for the High School for the Creative and Performing Arts.
And I believe that about 240 or so available slots. My understanding is from the people that apply that not necessarily everyone wants to become Whitney Houston but the parents of these students want the arts and cultural component of a high-caliber academic program. Not everybody in there wants to be a professional entertainer.
Why, then, do we not play to our strengths and to our customer base, so to speak, and create a Northeast CAPA or a Germantown CAPA or a Southwest CAPA? Why are we not attempting to accommodate the demand that parents have for these kind of schools and attempt to kind of -- 'Cause what happens is, the other children who were turned down have a couple options: they can go to their local public high school, which they may or may not want to do; they can stay or go into a parochial or a private 2286 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. school; or they can move which, sadly, so many people are doing. Why are we not taking what works and replicating it to keep our people here and to keep our students and parents happy?
Well, there is some of that. For example, at Overbrook, there is an art small-learning community, and it responds to those kind of needs. There are several now music-and-arts small-learning communities being the theme around which the academic program is designed. So some of that is, in fact, going on.
The biggest request I receive as a Councilperson as it relates to education is trying to help people attain both GAMP (ph.) and CAPA. And, again, I sense that there's a resistance to these specialized type of schools that seem to be extremely popular with parents. And while I recognize the desire to do these smaller learning communities and to have maybe this small teachers high school, you know replicated in a couple different places, what's wrong with high schools that are dedicated to 2287 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. interests, one specific interest or related interests that people are flocking to? I understand CAPA takes tuition from suburban students and lets those suburban come in and pay tuition. I mean, for me, that is not only a success; it's a popular success. Why are we trying to keep people in the normal high schools when they are seeking something different?
Well, I think the issue is -- first of all, let me be clear not about CAPA and some of the special-admission schools that exist at the moment. I think part of the issue has to do with whether we're going to create really terrific opportunities just for some kids or whether we're going to organize the way in which we do school reform so that, for the first time in anybody's memory in Philadelphia, it tries to meet the needs of a lot more kids. And we think that the art interests, the music interests, the engineering interests, the whole series of those kinds of interests can and should be met all across the City. It's not at all a comment about CAPA or any of the other places being bad; it's about making all the other 2288 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. places good so that we cease losing people to the suburbs.
Problem face in that regard is those 2750 families turned down from cap not going to wait 2, 3 years until get to where we want to be in our public high schools because they only have four years to go to high school so if you say we need or years to fix this system those children are out of system and they'll be relocated to other communities in order to access the choices that they want to Mac about their kids education we're losing people in the long run by not giving them what they want today as opposed to three years from now.
The fact is more than a few of those 2700 kids are not as good dancers and singers and dramatists and, therefore, whatever the new CAPA would be would not be CAPA. And the issue also has to do with the drama teachers, the music teachers, the art teachers. So you just can't wander off and say, Let's have a new CAPA with the same level of audition experience and the same level of teachers.
I would suspect the 2289 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. cohort of children that were turned down in the first tier aren't that far removed from the talent level of the children who were accept. But the issue is not that we're turning out Frank Sinatras; the issue is that we're turning out children with cultural opportunities and high academic opportunities at the same time that are clearly what parents are demanding. It's almost as if the administration has a vision of what they want high schools or our education institutions to be like, parents have another vision, and what we're saying to those parents is, Look, accept our vision, wait three or four years, and then we'll make it better. But in the meantime, they're not willing to sacrifice their child's four-year education in high school to something that's not yet there for them to access.
Well, I think the vision of parents across the city is that they want their kids to go to good schools, where they're going to get a strong education and one in which they can expect their young people -- and especially those who don't want to be Whitney Houston -- to perform 2290 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. at really high levels and be successful as adults. And that's exactly the same vision not so much that I have for all the kids, but, for example, that I have for my own children. And that's the way that I set standards. I want for all kids what I want for my own kids, and there's been too little of that in Philadelphia over the years.
And, philosophically, I would not disagree. But practically, what we're asking to do is, a parent whose child was turned down on the top tier from CAPA to send their child to Southern. And they're saying, I'm not sending my child to Southern; I'm either going to do one or two things -- I'm going to send that child to Neuman or to St. Maria Goretti or I'm going to move into Washington Township and send them to school there. And, I think, is the thing that we're not facing at this point and we need to continue to face. And while I commend and praise you for your efforts and philosophy, in looking forward, I think we're losing track of the three or four years now where we're losing these kids and we're 2291 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. losing their families. More importantly, they're moving to communities and going somewhere else. So I just think we ought to work on replicating what works and what people want. Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
. Thank you, Madam President. I just want to follow up on what Councilman Kenney said because I think everybody wants that. When I sat here for now years, and 14 during those 14 years, I've seen school programs get decimated because of lack of resources, and I've seen schools that have had art programs and musical programs in their schools eliminate those programs and replace them with what I call "itinerant teachers" who come in once a week to teach art. I have a daughter in the 3rd grade in public school, and she's a good artist. And on weekends, I send her to Fleischer Art School, but she does not have an art teacher in her school. And that's not a situation of not wanting. I 2292 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. mean, I want a full art teacher in that school. My daughter's interested in art. The thing is resources. Where do we get the resources so that there isn't only one CAPA but that Girls' High School and Central High School and Edison High School can put on dramas during the year, they can put on shows. I know that there was auditions at Girls' High the other day for Li'l Abner, I think it was. One of my niece's friends from Central was auditioning for one of the parts in the show. So the aspect is that we want the high schools and the schools to have the resources. What we're not focussing on is -- because people, I saw some parents here yesterday with signs that said, "Don't Cut Our Budget." And they don't understand that City Council is not going to cut this budget. In fact, we don't create the budget -- you guys do, you come in, and we just pass legislation to get the taxation, and God almighty, we hope that it stays at the same level, but that we're not cutting and we're not adding anything except the $15 million that we have become accustomed to, but we're not cutting anything. 2293 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. And I think an understanding has to be brought that we have spent over ten years cutting back on programs across the City -- art and music. The school where my daughter goes to used to have a Latin teacher. They don't have it anymore; the lady comes in once a week. Those programs that enrich not just math and reading but that create the atmosphere within a school that kids get interested in. We have spent ten years cutting that back because of the lack of money. People don't want to be able to realize that, but we have spent a whole lot of time, and every time we make a managerial move, it seems that it goes towards saving money but it does not come to put in other monies in terms of educational situations. So, you know, when we talk about that, I want Kensington High to be able to offer the kids at Kensington a drama department; they don't have one now, they don't have one now. So that they can put on their shows. The issue is, how do we get to there? How do we make every high school, every green field, every (unintelligible) a school where kids 2294 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. don't get art only once a week with a teacher that comes in, but where they have a librarian every day of the week. I think that's the issue that confronts us as a City Council. One of the reasons that I'm asking for a change in the governments is so that we, as Council people, can become much more accountable for the overall funding of the schools, so that we just don't speak about it. But that parents can actually say, well, you know, You guys are responsible, you and the Mayor are responsible for the educational system of this city. And we should be, and we should be. And we're currently not at that level yet. We pass legislation, but we don't take the responsibility because we don't have it; that falls on the Board of Ed. You create the budget. You create priorities, you go ahead. So I want my daughter to have a full art teacher and I want my daughter that attends public school to have a full drama classes if she so wishes to do those things.
We share that, Mr. Ortiz. And let me you just say, referring again 2295 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. to the Fair Opportunities to Learn standards that is in your document, the $300 million that the President referred to a little while and on graduation and promotion requirements. If we had those funds, then every school would have art, music, drama, world languages, four years of math, four years of science. There would be that opportunity, and kids would need to be able to demonstrate proficiency in those areas over a period of time.
I'm sorry, Councilman, I think your time is up. We've been having five minutes and then the next go-around. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam President. With respect to the comments of my two colleagues, Councilman Ortiz and Councilman Kenney, about more art and drama in schools, while I generally support that, the notion of my daughter having additional access to dramatic teaching, given her currently dramatic state of affairs at four years old, makes me quite nervous that she'll actually learn more and learn how to 2296 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. be even more dramatic later on in life, but that remains to be seen. Dr. Hornbeck, I recall a couple year ago there was a study that came out. I think you had an independent assessment done, which kind of goes back to a point that was raised by Councilwoman Verna about some of the schools in her district. My recollection is that a building assessment study was done that talked about revenues -- or, I'm sorry, costs in the area of maybe $750 million.
I seem to recall some large figure, about three quarters of a billion dollars was needed to --
What, if any, is the financing or funding plan to have long-term rehabilitation of the facilities that are in need?
Councilman Nutter, the System-wide Assessment was completed two years ago, and the price tag was about $765 million for 2297 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. bringing our buildings up to our predetermined standard. Of that $765 million, approximately $400 million is routine maintenance items, items that would have to be paid for from the Operating Budget. The other 300-some million dollars would be projects that could be funded from our Capital Budget. And to a great extent, we address those problems on an ongoing basis. However, the $400 million is problematic because our maintenance budget in the Operating Budget cannot come close to addressing those needs.
In this current budget in front of us, just to give some shape and scope to this, what's your current routine maintenance or operating maintenance budget?
Our maintenance budget is approximately $25 million. In addition, we have contracts for between 5 and $7 million, where we contract with private firms to do some of the work we can't do in-house ourselves.
How does -- if you don't know, you can get back to me. The $25 2298 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. million that the School District allocates to maintenance of its facilities, that's 200-and -- I know the number changes because schools kind of open and close. And how many school are there, 257?
263. All right, then 257 was last year's number. Do you have any idea how that compares to the City's Operating Budget for maintenance for all of our various buildings and facilities?
No, I don't, but I certainly can get you that information.
I'd be interested in that comparison. So in any given budget year -- and in this one probably more than those in the past -- you have $25 million for routine maintenance. Your study indicated that you need $400 million to get facilities to a certain level, and then you've got your capital expenditures of approximately $360 million. What do you plan to do on the capital side?
Well, on the capital 2299 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. side, we have a very aggressive capital program that includes not only new construction but also projects to improve the current condition of schools. We concentrate on what we call the "envelope of the building" -- roofs, windows doors, so that --
And have you explored any additional financing -- I'll call them call them "schemes" or "mechanisms" outside of your regular annual Capital Budget allocation? For instance, in trying to deal with an ongoing long-standing pension problem, the City last year went into the bond market for $1.2 billion for pension obligation bonds. It's somewhat of a different financing mechanism to deal with a very high unfunded liability problem with our pension system. We had the PICA bonds that were floated many years ago to deal with again the City's own fiscal crisis -- actually done at a time when the 2300 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. District wasn't in as bad of shape as we were. The times have now switched. Have you taken a look at what the possibilities are to deal with large capital needs and infrastructure needs for the School District that you might be able to access other funding mechanisms or resources to get close to this number?
Well, yes, we have. We are currently in the beginning stages of looking at a System-wide Energy-Saving Initiative, where a private firm would potentially fund all of our energy-related infrastructure needs with some guaranteed savings over a long-term contract. In other words, somebody would put the money up front to finance boilers and air-conditioning systems and relighting our buildings and so forth. We're also looking with great interest and anticipation at the proposed federal legislation to provide funding for improving -- or increasing our Capital Budgets.
This is Germaine Ingram. Let me just add one point to that. Over the last couple of years, we've 2301 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. proposed to the State on at least a couple of occasions that this there be a redefinition of capital spending as opposed to operating expenditures for maintenance and construction. We think that in that way, much of this $400 million that the Perks-Reutter Report indicated is Operating Budget money could be transferred to the Capital Budget and might be eligible for State subsidy. We feel that it would be a win/win for both the District and the Commonwealth because as it stands now, because we don't have operating money, there are repairs and maintenance that are deferred until they become a capital expenditure. And if we were able to get a redefinition, we could keep our buildings in better shape and do it for less money overall.
Okay. I know the buzzer has gone off, but I think, as we all know, one, the expenditures are never really deferred; they are just avoided, and they are often three, four, five times what they would have been if we had taken care of them at an operating level as opposed to a Capital Budget level. 2302 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
I think that may be one other of those areas that Councilwoman Clark suggested might be worthy of discussion with the State.
Thank you, Councilman Nutter. Superintendent Hornbeck, I have a question, a couple questions too regarding overcrowding. As you're well aware, in my district, the John B. Kelly Elementary School rents four classrooms at Wissahickon Boys' Club. And I think right now, it's pretty satisfactory except that I have still heard that the school's overcrowded. Is the concept of the Little Schoolhouses one of the methods that you're using to relieve overcrowding? And can you tell us exactly what a Little Schoolhouse is and what the facilities are that are included? Because someone said they don't have rest rooms.
Yes, Councilwoman Miller. The Little Schoolhouse is one of the 2303 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. strategies that we've been using. We have opened six -- five, and we have three to go. We've opened five so far, and we have three more under construction now. They range -- the smallest one at Francis Hopkinson is six classrooms. The majority of them are twelve classrooms. And then there's one at eleven and one at eight. They are permanent facilities. They're made out of brick. When I first heard the name "Little Classroom," I thought of this little place, and it's a lot of a little place; it's, as I say, has as many as twelve classroom in it. But it does take up a whole lot less space. It can be put in an area that's not all that much bigger than where we used to put trailers -- for example, thinking of the John B. Kelly School, where we've made some real progress in the last three years. It is -- we use them only for -- I think they're all in elementary school locations, so they're for the younger children. And they have in addition to the eleven or twelve classrooms, they also have a large common room 25 that can used for like small assemblies and that 2304 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. sort of thing.
Okay. When you said that it takes the place of the trailers, does that mean that you're not going to put any more trailers up?
No, unfortunately, trailers still remain cheaper than little classrooms.
And so we can't abandon that altogether, but there have been places where we've used this instead of the trailer.
This was brought up at the meeting one night last week regarding Penrose, and they kept referring to "the Little Red Schoolhouse," which I never heard of. What does a Little Red Schoolhouse cost?
4 million? I beg your pardon? 2305 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Would it therefore be cheaper to put on an extension at Penrose rather than have a Little Schoolhouse attached to it?
Probably not. The -- let me ask Mr. McGlenchy here to respond, but it has to do with altering a present construction, which is always a bit more expensive.
No. I guess the nomenclature "Little Schoolhouse" really doesn't explain the facility itself. It is a little self-contained building that has upwards of twelve classrooms, with a common space for feeding children and for an assembly, full bathroom facilities, as well as its own mechanical heating and air-conditioning systems. So it is in effect a little school. One of the requirements for constructing a Little Schoolhouse is, you have to have enough ground on the existing space of a 2306 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. school. We do not set up separate educational administrations for the Little Schoolhouse. It is, in fact -- it has a "mother" building, if you will, and the principal of the mother building is also the principal of the Little Schoolhouse. The biggest problem is to have enough room on the school property to locate it, giving consideration to all the codes that apply in terms of setback from the street and parking per numbers of staff members and occupants. So not every school in the City can accommodate a Little Schoolhouse.
I am told that Penrose does have the necessary room for such a schoolhouse. That being said, you said there were three on the waiting list?
There are three. One is currently under construction and two are in the design mode.
How long would it take before Penrose could be considered?
Who are the two on the waiting list? You have two more that's in design phase? 2307 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
There's one under construction at the Creighton School, and that's planned for opening in September of 1999. There's design begun at the Day and the Lamberton, and they're expecting to open in September of 2000. So it's probably -- in effect, it's a 15- to 18-month process from design to construction.
Are any additional schoolhouses planned per year? Or will this -- you'll do nine, and that's it?
This would be one of the things that as we look at Penrose and at other places, there will be places where this is a suitable response for the next place that we're able to do and places where it wouldn't make sense, either because more room is needed, for example. I mean, where we built the new Marine School, for example, a Little Schoolhouse wouldn't have done 'cause that school has, I don't know, 50 classrooms. And in other places, there wouldn't be room. But my guess is that in the additional 2308 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. places, there WILL be -- that the Little Schoolhouse would make the most sense. And maybe it does at Penrose; we'll have to look at that.
Basically, our Little Schoolhouse prototype is geared for children kindergarten through 3rd grade, and it may be stretched a little bit to 4th grade, and that's their basic scale and size and construction philosophy at this point in time.
Has the trailers been designed differently? And one of the reasons I ask is that one of the charter schools in the 8th Councilmatic District could not get zoning because children had to leave -- they were doing modular unit children had to heave the main units. Children had to leave the main unit and go outside to use the rest rooms. So I had a meeting with Tom Kelly, and he said he was no longer going to approve the fact that children had to leave one building to go outside and use another. He wanted them to either connect or everything to be pretty much in one. And one of our arguments was that the 2309 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. School District has children in trailers that have to go out. And he says that he's no longer going to approve any of those types of facilities, which would lead me to believe that your trailers have to be different if you're going to continue to use those in the future.
Mr. Kelly is not happy with our trailer arrangement, that's absolutely correct.
And the problem is that if you make plumbing permanent to the trailer, it no longer becomes a portable building; it is then subject to permanent building codes. And there's a real dichotomy that, you know, it's not concrete walls, it's not a permanent structure. So some there's some of the things we're trying to consider. But the trailers we have now do not come with plumbing in them. They have electrical hookup, air-conditioning, but there is no plumbing connections.
Okay. I just wanted to do bring that to your attention. I know 2310 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. that they used to have the wider trailers that, to me, kind of looked like a double trailer or maybe even a modular unit. And they seemed to be more useful in having those kind of rest room 6 facilities that they're wanting you to have now with the trailers. This was years ago. I have a question regarding school safety. Have your efforts and steps that you've taken to make schools safer produced any results?
They have, Councilwoman Miller. And there have been a whole series of steps taken. We've increased the number of schools police, we've put cameras in a lot of schools, we have citywide phone numbers that you can call, we've got the accommodation rooms to get disruptive kids out of classroom, etc., etc. Overall, we've seen a percent 19 decrease in the number of weapons found in our 20 schools. With respect to assaults, which were 21 level for two years, they dropped by 5 percent in this last school year. Robberies have gone down two years in a row -- 28.7 percent in '96-'97 and 32.3 percent in the '97-'98 school year. So there are measurable concrete ways 2311 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. that we see the effects of the measures that we've taken. That's not to say that we must not stay vigilant; we have to, but we are making progress.
Last year, when the Police Commissioner came to Philadelphia, I asked him his opinion of whether police -- oh, I asked him actually if New York schools had New York police in them, and he said no, that the School District has its own police force. And I know Philadelphia schools have school security or I'm not really quite sure of the exact name or title.
Do you believe -- many schools in my district have school police but they also have Philadelphia police officers. And when there was a suggestion that the police be pulled from the schools, parents, teachers people were outraged. Do you believe that perhaps if your officers had arrest powers that that would make a 2312 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. difference in helping people feel a little safer? And just what is the whole plan or analysis as it relates to school police versus Philadelphia police?
I think that there's no 7 question but that the police that are on-site in some of those schools that you're talking to, that's very desirable. The relationship between the School District and the Police Department has been a good one. And, in fact, I went in and met with a couple of district commanders when it looked like that was going to happen and took the position that I hoped that they would change their mind, and they did. But I think that, in my own judgment, it is better that the -- for the norm to be that school police, who are unarmed and who have a history of relationships with the principals, be the normal way that it is conducted. We have developed over the years -- we had it with Commissioner Neal, it has continued, and, if anything, grown better with Commissioner Timoney -- a strong working relationship with the police. One of the things that we did do -- I 2313 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. guess it was about the first year I was here or maybe right at the beginning of the second year, was to change the status of the school police so that they are now full-fledged sworn police officers. And within the jurisdiction of the school, they have the powers of arrest. They do not have jurisdiction outside of the boundaries of the school; that still belongs exclusively to the City police. But we believe that wearing uniforms, the additional training that goes along with being the powers of policing, all of that has contributed to the kinds of improvements in these numbers that I talked about a little while ago.
Okay, thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Superintendent, could you explain to me what "active/on roll" and "inactive/on roll" means as it relates to attendance? I understand that there might be two separate categories of --
There is. Let me ask 2314 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. somebody who knows better than I. (Naomi Gubernick comes forward.)
This is Naomi Gubernick, who works with our Family Resource Network, and issues of attendance and absence and truancy is one of many areas for which she is responsible.
Children who are considered "active, off-rolled" children are students whose attendance is not as regular as we would like it to be, who come to school for a week or are absent for two weeks, come back, but we can predict that they will just be coming in and out of school. There are a number of students, though, who start school with us and then, for whatever reason, do not come back to school. We know they are not coming back to school, and we have made every effort to get them back into school, and those are children who are considered inactive students and who eventually are dropped from our rolls.
Now, is there a 2315 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. minimum age requirement that when we develop children from the rolls? I mean, if the child is a freshman, say, in high school and is on the inactive/on roll, that child is somewhere.
We pursue compulsory attendance rules for those children through Family Court and Truancy Court.
Do we count -- for our daily attendance purposes, do we include in that count the inactive/on-roll children?
So when we get a number of daily truancy or daily non-attendants, that includes both of those categories.
At what age does a child good dropped from the roll? If the child's inactive/on-roll, never comes to school, is 16 or 17 years old, when are they officially dropped?
I believe it's sometime after their 16th birthday but I can check the exact date for you.
Okay. And they are no longer counted; is that correct? 2316 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Okay. Was there ever any time when the inactive/on-roll students were when the not counted as part of the daily attendance figures?
There was a time when there was a perception that they would not be counted, and we have corrected that perception in our schools.
So there was never a situation where inactive/on-roll 14-year-old, 15-year-old students were not counted as a part of attendance?
If that happened, it was in error, and we have gone back to correct it.
When was it 2317 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. corrected?
I mean, was there a directive that went out that said that you need to put these two groups together when you do your attendance figures?
There was a directive that went out sometime in December that reminded schools that all students enrolled in their building count towards their attendance.
Okay. If a child goes to school in the morning, a freshman in high school, and checks in the homeroom, and then after homeroom, checks out, is that child considered in attendance that day or absent that day?
Is there any roll that is taken throughout the course of the day? For example, if I start out in homeroom and my next class is physics or my next class is math, is each individual teacher responsible for taking roll that day? 2318 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
When that child shows up or doesn't show up in math class and is absent, what is his or her status for that day as either attending or not attending?
That child is considered in attendance for that day, but we track which classes they attended and didn't attend.
Right. Is that child counted in attendance that day a part of the daily non-attendance group? So, for example, I understand that each day, there's attendance records -- those children didn't show up for that day. But what I understand is if that child checked into homeroom that day and then left the school, that child is not counted as not attending that day.
So we don't really have a true picture all the time as to exactly how 2319 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. many children are in the school or not in school on a particular day.
Well, if the child is absent for third period and has blown school, is gone, but attended homeroom that morning, that child is counted as attended.
Correct. So that's not an accurate picture often -- or sometimes as to exactly how many children are in a particular school in a day. Do we have some way of either -- technology being what it is today, of having children kind of swipe themselves in or check themselves? I mean, is there some way we can make sure -- 'Cause I'll tell you the other concern I have in addition to them not being educated. Whose liability is it if, in fact, that child checks in, is registered as being in that day, blows school, and winds up in some tragic accident, is it our liability? Do we have custodial care for that child for that day? 2320 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Should a parent expect that when the child goes to school and checks in and is counted as attending and then blows school, whose liability is that? I mean, do you have somebody from our legal department who could. . . (Unidentified person stands up and begins to respond off mike.)
I'm sorry, you're going to have to come up to the table, identify yourself for the record, and respond to the question, please.
My name is Jackie Sparkman, and I'm General Counsel. The child is counted when they check in in the morning in homeroom. If the child at some point later in the day leave school, he also leaves our supervision and/or if anything happened to the child outside of school outside of our realm of control, we would not be responsible.
But if our records indicate that the child is in attendance that day and there is no report that indicates otherwise, there would be nothing then to trigger notification of the parent or the court or anyone 2321 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. else that that child regularly comes in, checks in, and blows off. And then that would lead me to believe that if a parent wanted to -- a parent wouldn't be that responsible anyway if they're not tracking what their child is doing, but irresponsible parents are a part of our problem. How do we determine, how do we make sure that we know where our kids are in the system at any given time?
When the child leaves, we don't have any way of tracking that child. And you asked about the swiping also, which is one step in that direction, and we are examining specifically that. Miss Gubernick can speak to that how it might work.
We have met with people from companies who have put these swipe programs in schools in Baltimore and in other large cities. The concept is that each child would get some kind of I.D. card and, for each period, would swipe in, and if they leave, they'd swipe out. You would also swipe in to the lunch room so that you only go to one lunch rather than a few lunches, and that we could track attendance that 2322 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. way. We are piloting that program at William Penn High School this year. It is both expensive and it also has a lot of technological challenges in terms of getting each classroom appropriately wired, and some of our buildings are just not capable of that kind of wiring. We're also looking at alternative ways of collecting that information on a period-by-period basis.
The concept of leaving school at any given time when the wind arises is somewhat foreign to my own experience. Is there a period of time when this happened? I mean, I can be around the school, the high school in the morning and watch kids come and go as if it were a hotel. They go out for coffee, come back with McDonald's. I mean, they basically just leave and come and go as they please. Is there something we could reasonably do to ensure that the child, when he or she goes to school in the morning is going to be there until 2:30 and not just wandering around as they think appropriate? 2323 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Well, there are a variety of initiatives that we've taken with respect to truancy. Two of them that have received the most notoriety are the truancy courts that we've initiated that have resulted in more than 2,000 kids, I guess, coming with something in the neighborhood of a 70 to 80 percent return-to-school rate. Secondly, one of the areas of cooperation with Commissioner Timoney is picking up kids when they see 'em on the streets and bringing them back to either to a central location or to school. So there are those kinds of initiatives. I think that it's fair to say that in terms of placing, for example, personnel at each of -- speaking of William Penn, William Penn has, if I remember correctly, 59 doors, and so there's no way to keep kids walking out from one of those 59 doors. In addition to the kind of truancy-related initiatives that I was talking about, I think the single best antidote to that is, in fact, to create a place where kids do 2324 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. well. And that goes back to a lot of things we've been talking about. Kids who can read by the time they're in the 3rd grade will an exceptionally higher attendance rate for the rest of their school career. And one of the most important things that could be done to have kids read at the 3rd grade is to have pre-kindergarten programs, for example. So there's both a positive and a negative, a kind of a punitive and a positive feature to this.
Yes, it is. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Superintendent, in reference to attendance, I've heard, read that sometimes the attendance is like -- I don't want you to misunderstand the word I'm using -- that the attendance are manipulated because of State subsidies, that a student could be missing from school 100-and-some days, but you still get the State subsidy. 2325 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Could you explain how the State subsidy stops when a student doesn't show up for school?
After consecutive 9 days of absence, not 100 days. The child must be 10 reported as a non-attender, and we have to take steps, through Truancy Court or other ways, to get that child back to school for subsidy purposes.
So a student is out of school, let's say, 12 days. How do you report that to the State so the subsidy stops coming into this district?
Well, what we have to do is immediately get in touch with the parents, and hopefully, we've done that before the 12 days, to find out why the child is absent. If the child is absent for illness, we can still count the child. If a child is just hooky, then we must move in Truancy Court, and sometimes it's a criminal matter or in other courts, but we have to find out why that -- we have to take a step to get the 2326 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. child back into school and satisfactorily explain the absence before we can, in order to continue counting the child as an attender for subsidy purposes.
So you're telling me that we have a process in the District that every up student that is out more than days, that you 9 have a mechanism that goes to the State in saying 10 stop the subsidy for that child?
No, no, no, no. We're talking again of 10 consecutive days of unexcused absence.
We have to take steps to either justify the absence or to get the child back in school if the absences are not justifiable in order to continue the subsidy. If we don't do that, then the subsidy continues and the State audits, then it can subtract monies for the days of over-count, if you will.
Let me give you two examples. A kid's absent 15 consecutive days. It turns out that he has been absent because he is sick. After 10 days, we don't tell anybody to cut 2327 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. off subsidy because the student, under State law, is away permissibly, and we can continue to count them. A kid is absent days consecutive, 6 and we send a counselor, a parent volunteer, the 7 principal goes out, chases him down, goes and 8 knocks on his door, at 25 absences hauls him into 9 Truancy Court, and active work is underway to 10 reach out and capture that student. Under State 11 law, it is permitted to continue to count that 12 child for purposes of subsidy. Third situation is if it were the case that the kid was absent 50 days and he had been neither sick nor had we ever gone looking for him, then when the State auditor comes in, you know, four years later, that child could be identified as one for which we inappropriately received subsidy. There is not a date certain under State law before which subsidy is appropriate and after which subsidy ceases.
Back to the school security program. There was some controversy recently where magnetometer tests, the one 2328 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. specifically that I'm going to address now is the one where you had a position that random scans were done with the hand scanner.
I received letters that because of some work reduction, that that process has been either eliminated or cut back drastically. Could you please explain presently what we do in the area of metal detection, guns, knives, and other contraband, and tell me about this program that, apparently, the parents and teachers had a lot of confidence in, that's not in place at this moment -- or at least not in place like it once was.
We have historically used per-diem security officers in many instances to do these scans. And the security officers union took us to arbitration saying that it was not appropriate under the contract to use per-diems for that function, that we should hire some more full-time people, in effect, permanent people to do that. And the arbitrator agreed with the security officers union and ordered us to not 2329 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. use per-diems. However, we have neither eliminated nor cut back drastically; we have redeployed security officers. It is not quite at the same level as it was, so there is some reduction, but it is pretty minimal. And we are continuing to run an effective scanning program in the schools. There was a newspaper article that gave rise to that misunderstanding that you describe. And it takes a long time to undo those things.
And the workforce, the full-time workforce has been able to provide that service but not at the level that it once was.
Not quite at the level, but it's not -- you know, it's not a cut from 100 percent to 50 percent: I mean, it's still maintaining at a very highly level.
'Cause it's still a very 2330 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. effective program.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Superintendent, in terms of recruitment, I know that you have designated a series of schools as bilingual schools and if you're having problems recruiting teachers in different areas, I want to know what efforts have been done and what's been the success or failure of the efforts in terms of not having ESL teachers but the bilingual program to be instituted as such?
There have been a number of efforts to increase the instructional opportunity for kids whose first language isn't English. And in terms of teacher vacancies, bilingual teachers are one of those areas where we have a shortage, along with all those others we've been talking about. We have, in an effort to respond to 2331 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. that, we've had a bilingual recruiter on staff. We have also identified the schools as bilingual, which means that we can take a bilingual person and know that we can assign that bilingual person to a vacancy that occurs in that school. We don't have to follow those strict -- well, we still follow 'em, but there is an exception to them for those circumstances. One of the innovative things that we've done there, and it hasn't yet borne fruit because it takes a period of a couple years, but we started a program not this September, I think, but the September before that for paraprofessionals who already work in the system who speak Spanish -- in this particular instance, it's all Spanish -- and have some college. And what we did was to arrange a special program at Community College and at Temple so that those individuals -- and there were 50 of them as, I remember that started through that program -- can get their teaching certificate, and we sort of home-grow a group of teachers who are bilingual and who, in fact, live in the neighborhood and who, for the most part, actually 2332 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. have kids in the schools where they will end up teaching. But it still remains, along with all other teacher vacancies, a major issue.
At the bilingual schools, like, for example, at the Kensington and Edison cluster, are those schools that are designated as bilingual when they don't have full staffing in terms of that?
Okay. So that means that the programs that they want to institute are not being put into place.
And how far away are we in those clusters from achieving a goal in terms of teaching and --
Well, it's different in different schools. But, again, as I say, the vacancy problem with bilingual teachers is, along with math and science and special education and others, a very serious problem. And at this point, we have no evidence that in the foreseeable future, we will totally close that. I do hope 2333 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. that some of the initiatives that we've talked about this morning and that I hope arise out of joint efforts will close that gap further. But I think until we deal with issues, for example, of compensation and others, we will not eliminate that problem.
In terms of the Olney cluster, that has been an ongoing sort of epic struggle, what have been the changes? And in terms of that high school and the cluster, how are we getting organized so that half the student body of Olney High School is not absent daily?
Well, I want to emphasize that the issue is really the high school and not the cluster. In fact, the cluster --
I know we have Roberto Clemente, which. 2334 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
But the high school has been -- there's no question about it. I characterized it to some students from Olney the other day with whom I met as the single most difficult school out of the 259 to get on track in the City of Philadelphia. It is my hope that there are some signs that there is a greater degree of common effort there. One of the most concrete, being a decision in December by the faculty, in excess of 90 percent of them, to embrace the school reform strategy that has been working effectively in Roberto Clemente and Central East Middle and in Cook. And then all of these kids, then, would feed into Olney. And if, in fact, it proves to be the case -- and I hope, but I think the jury is out -- that the whole staff, the teachers, the leadership come together and do that, then I think we're going to begin to see some real changes. But it is that kind of cooperation around an instructional strategy that I think is necessary. 2335 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
One thing that concerns me at another high school -- Central High and the student organization from Central High has communicated to me and to Representative Ramos that instead of the numbers going up in terms of admissions into Central High, and they're very concerned that, actually, the numbers have gone down. And that many of the students that were admitted into Central High because of their achievements at the previous level have not gotten the same type of encouragement to remain at Central High and some have transferred and some have even been encouraged to transfer out of Central High. And that disturbs me greatly.
Those issues are important ones. And concern about that has led the Board recently to adopt a policy that will examine those admission statistics into the special admission schools with an eye toward how young people who fit into certain disaggregated categories, including issues of language, not only get in but, as you point out, stay in, and stay in successfully.
Well, what bothers 2336 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. me is the retention aspect, and what bothers me is the climate that some students are feeling that is being created. Now, I'm not saying this, but that's the words of the students themselves.
Right. Well, that's what I meant by staying in once they are admitted.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Superintendent, in going through your testimony and the selected issues book, the term "parents," was somewhat noticeably absent. Any mention of parental involvement in the furtherance of the educational agenda of the public schools -- and I seem to recall a couple years ago a discussion about student responsibility and then another discussion about parental responsibility, and at that time, the District was working on a program or a policy having to do with parents. Again, just going through the testimony and also the book here, I didn't see much mention 2337 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. of parents as what I would look at as really the strong third component of schools, kids, parents in terms of how children learn and how they perform and function, all of the discussion about non-attendance, truancy, absenteeism and the like. Can you tell me what we're doing in the area of parental involvement today that maybe we weren't doing a couple years ago?
Sure, but I would ask you to reread the testimony because you will find parents there with students and principals every time teachers and principals and students were mentioned.
Right. Well, I see them mentioned as a part of a phrase, but most of the discussion is either about what the District is doing by way of its efforts or what you're hoping that the students will do. So other than in that phrase, that four or five grouping of people, what is the general outlook from the District with regard to parents? What is our level of parental involvement? What support systems are we putting in place or have we 2338 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. put in place to make sure that parents are that strong third component of this process?
The two biggest areas are the ones that are mentioned on of my testimony, where we have provided strong parent engagement in school councils, which is, as you probably know, are made up of teachers and principals and a contingent of parents who are elected to the school council by at least 35 percent of the parents in the school under a system that is overseen by the Home and School Association. So that's one major structural way in which we engage a very large number of parents in that process. A second reference on are to the school volunteers, most of whom are parents, and the 15,000 new ones that we have recruited because of the really central role that we think that parents play along with teachers and principals in this process. So in a structural sense, volunteers and the engagement in the actual governance of the school are two of the big ones. In addition to that, we have defined our standards in a way that makes them, I guess 2339 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. you'd say, "parent-friendly" in identifying what kids ought to know in the 1st grade, in the 2nd grade and the 3rd grade and the 4th grade and the 5th grade so that parents don't have to guess about that; they can actually know. The forth thing I would mention is that we believe it's important for parents to know how their schools are doing and so that they don't have to think it up or make it up, and that's the reason that we've made such an effort to, at all levels of the school system, to really define your kid's school as doing this much better with reading, this much better with math, this much better with science, and so on. And so in terms of the information that is readily available, we've tried to give lots of emphasis to the that as well. We've had fairly extensive parent-training programs with parents, particularly those that have been involved in the school councils, because you don't just kind of waltz into that with and not have had any experience previously. So we've run training programs for parents. 2340 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. We will also, I expect by fall, have launched what we're referring to as a "Family Compact." There is being designed now with our parent partners -- the Parents Union, the Home School Association, and others, with the involvement of the Board -- a document, which we hope will be one that the parent signs and that the teacher signs and the kid signs, making a three-way commitment to one another of what each is going to deliver. So those are among the major things that we've done. 'Cause we do consider the parent as a very substantial partner.
How often are the parents required to come to the school for anything in particular? Are there required parent-teacher conferences? Does the parent have to come and pick up the report card?
The place where the most emphasis is placed on it is in picking up the report card. There are in addition to that multiple invitations in each school. And even with a report card, you can't quite require, but we come awfully close to that in that context. 2341 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
And at that time, is there discussion between the parent and the teacher about what's going on with the child? Or is it primarily just a picking up of the report card?
No. There's an opportunity at that time for there to be a conversation between teacher and parent.
Okay. I did this time hear the buzzer, so I will yield back.
Thank you. At this time, the Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. I want to finish up questions on charter schools, Madam President. Again, I'm referring to hearing we had on December 8th about charter schools and how they affect public schools and education, etc. And one of the concerns was a teacher who works in a public school may have an extracurricular assignment, or let's say a sports teacher who has sports activities after school or arts or some other interest may in fact be -- assuming we have 2342 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. the funding, may work after school with a certain student body, or I guess like a coach or something like that. One of the questions was, and I quote, "Once I got my charter, I was told that if I worked for a charter school, I could not work for a public school on my own time during the summertime or any other time." And I've heard -- you know, during the hearing, we heard about double-dipping and that argument, but I can't reconcile that if you work after school for a charter, as you know, many of the charter people had friends in their former public schools who wanted to volunteer after school or work with them and they were told they can't do that, that it's double-dipping, when it's all public school. And that I can't reconcile. Can you clear that up for me?
Well, I think it's fair to say they can certainly volunteer, so I don't think that's an issue. But in terms of being paid by two different public entities, it is my understanding that that's prescribed by law. It's like -- the first time I 2343 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. encountered that issue or instances in which some of our coaches wanted to work on Saturdays for the Department of Recreation, for example. And that kind of dual employment with two parts of government is apparently illegal.
Miss Sparkman said at that time they do not work for the School District; they work for the charter schools. So, again, we said, the charter schools are public schools, but here we're saying that charter schools are not public schools. It's really a dual system, and that I still don't understand.
Well, as the Superintendent told you this morning, charter schools are, by law, separate local education agencies. So it's as if the City of Philadelphia has two separate public school systems. We do, and they are separate. And because charter school teachers work for that separate organization and public schools --
But you approve them; that's why it doesn't make sense. If charter schools did not have to be approved, they have to go to the Board, and the Board has to 2344 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. approve them in order for them to exist. So they're not a whole separate an equal entity.
Councilwoman Blackwell, we said this morning -- and this is another example -- that there are many ways that the State legislature could have drawn this law differently. This is not --
That's right, it's part of the law. The School District did not come up with this; this is a part of State law.
Well, it makes absolutely no sense to have different rules and then -- it's unfortunate that they keep the two entities in battle, blaming one another, if the State did this. And certainly, I will tell them your response. Two more questions. Will their funding be cut? In other words, if it's 5200, I understand it was -- it started out being -- it's been going down like $100 each year. Where are they now and where will they be in September in terms of their funding? 2345 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
The per-pupil calculation is based upon the previous year's adopted budget, and the School District will revise the budget in May. When we adopt the new 2000, we'll also revise the 1999 budget. So it depends on how that budget is adopted, but the budget is $55 million less than it was last May, so it will drop.
The further it drops, the charter schools will receive the same per-pupil payment as we do. Our per-pupil payments still be the same.
Dr. Hornbeck answered that this morning. His answer was easier than that because they don't end up getting the same per-pupil amount.
If you exclude things they don't have to do, then they do get the same.
See, none of that makes sense 'cause they don't busing. So that's not only something they don't have to do; that's something they're not permitted to do. So something they don't have to do sounds like they're absolved from having a certain 2346 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. responsibility, but it doesn't come out that way.
Well, let me give you an example. We have to transport kids ten miles outside of our school district. No charter school has to transport other people's kids to other schools ten miles from where they are. Now, that's something they don't have to do. It's not that they're not permitted to; they don't have to do that.
No, all of our schools do, in effect, because we are a school district.
But the majority of schools don't have to do that. That's some -- I mean, if you're going to Lee School at 47th and Locust, I'm sure you're not busing people from there to the suburbs.
The State law considers a charter school like a school district. Now, again, I didn't think that up, and that might not be an intelligent thing to do -- I don't know. But that single school is a school district just like the entire Philadelphia School District is a 2347 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. school district.
All right. Would you be willing to meet with them or their representatives to iron out differences in monthly billing, getting records, special ed., and registering students?
We have met many, many times, and our representatives will continue to be willing to meet with their representatives.
They said they're having a problem because whomever they have met with have been saying that they have don't have authority to -- they haven't been getting, in their opinion, direct responses to these issues.
Well, they've not been getting in all instances the answers they want, which is different from not getting direct responses. They have, for example, wanted transportation, and the School District personnel have been saying, Here are the circumstances under which transportation is permitted, and here are the circumstances under which transportation is not permitted. And there are some charter school 2348 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. operators who want us to say never mind what the State law is, give us transportation, we don't want to hear all this other stuff. And I understand that. If I were they, I probably would want transportation too, but it's not a question of not having the authority. Now, it. . .
What about the issues of monthly billing, obtaining records, special ed., and registering of students?
As each charter school is formed, we are giving them modems so that they can connect directly with our offices that have records and then give us their student counts and they can close their money. And so that process is ongoing. And, in fact, all established charter schools now have the modems installed. And as we are getting more technologically efficient, we're passing that ability on to them so they can directly get the documents they need through our system.
That is currently happening, or was that always in place? 2349 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
It's an ongoing process, and all the existing ones now have their modems installed.
All right, 'cause I got this from an existing charter school operator, but I will follow up with that.
We have to have, of course, continual training, and we've established that training and provided it free of charge on how to use the modems, and that's ongoing.
All right. Another question is bilingual testing assessment materials. Where are we with regard to that issue?
In the case of reading and math, we have been using a test called "The Aprenda," which is the SAT-9 in Spanish for our bilingual students. And in the case of science, there is no hard-core grace test so we translate it ourselves into Spanish. And at the moment, it is the only language where we have an alternative test in a different language.
Okay. So we're -- so that's -- you're in the process of 2350 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. doing that in science?
We have already translated the test in science and we've already used the test translated into science. Those are completed things in Spanish.
All right, because another charter school principal said they were admonished about calling and requesting those materials. Okay, so you have it in reading and math on SAT-9 and science. Science, we've done it ourselves. Charter school operators ask, are charter schools entitled to receive real estate tax money to run schools as other public schools do?
Well, correct me if I'm wrong. We get some of our money from real estate, and they get some of our money and, therefore, they do get real estate tax money.
We are, in fact, passing along the real estate tax dollars to the charter with the per-pupil subsidy.
All right. Now, let me as you about -- thank you on the 2351 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. information on Charter Fairmount. Now let me ask you about health emergency. This issue is about a yearlong issue. If I'm not mistaken, this is the same manual that you had last time in yellow. I can verify it if I could send my staff to my office. This is the Crisis/Safety Procedure Manual. I don't know that this is a new manual unless somebody tells me it is.
I don't that it is a new manual. It is our emergency procedures that we've worked out with the Health Department and which are proving to be effective.
All right. I will say this, and you notice as you came out, a young man, a kid dying of meningitis at McMichael School. And at that time, we called for hearings, and of course, we talked about how a health emergency can be a shooting, it can be a disease, it can be anything, anything, anything that -- any act of nature. So a health emergency can take a lot of forms. But this, for example, states under the role of the principal. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. 1. Immediate closure of specified schools and transportation of students either to their homes or alternate locations. 2. Placement of school buses at predetermined schools in readiness should the situation require. 3. Holding of students at school. . I mean, all of these are options -- acceleration of regular transportation schedule, all of these things. So, in other words, this doesn't give us -- we spent a lot of -- I guess it's been a year, maybe a year and a half, Madam President, that we've been talking about a uniform system for all schools. And this says the principal of whoever's in charge and they have all these options. They can, you know, they can close school, keep it open. They can bus kids home or someplace else. Obviously, there are choices that anybody can assume, but this doesn't give us -- and we said this at that hearing, we spent a lot of time. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. need one system for all schools in cases of emergency. This manual that was out before doesn't tell us what to do, and it was very obvious when we had the problem with the child with meningitis who passed that we don't have a system. There was a lot of chaos. After that, we had a problem at Lee School, and things were much better, the School District jumped on it right away, it only a few months later. But, you know, you have acting principals, there are all kind of problems. The principal could be out of the office, maybe they can call down the School Board and maybe you're out of town or your designee may be in another state attending a conference. We really need to have a tight system that says, In this kind of situation, you do this; in another, you do that. If there's a shooting, this happens. If there is a disease, if there is a storm, a tornado, a whatever. But this does not do -- this does not do it. All this talks about is options. And options are options. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. this whole manual in an emergency, it would surprise me. This does not do the job and this is why we had the hearing and fought so vociferously so that we would never have to go through that again. As you know, we had Children's Hospital come up with brochures that we gave out in the neighborhoods. The child -- McMichael School is across the street from a public housing high-rise. It was absolute bedlam. When we had a meeting in the school, we didn't know if we were safe, parents didn't know if they were safe, if they should pull other children out. And what happened was, as we said then, you had all the people from the board on the stage with the mike. And when people like me and all the parents were in the audience, we couldn't even talk. Nobody knew what to do. It was absolutely -- it was even embarrassing because nobody knew what to do and there was no leadership and there were no answers and everybody was frightened. So a lot of bad feelings came out of that. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. area that traditionally the Mantua area, that is traditionally one of the areas that would be hardest hit by welfare cuts. We've had a lot of -- this is an area where we've had a lot of problems with maternal death and just a rough area overall. And then if you have an emergency and nobody knows what to do, it's just unconscionable. And this just won't do it. We really, really need a form that says what you do in health emergencies, that parents, that students, that principals and all in charge can adhere to -- not something that gives you a hundred options and a whole lot of pages and what you can do and a whole checklist and all that.
That's fine as a secondary issue to try to see what your school is like and who's who and, you know. But you really, really need something specific to deal with an emergency saying that you do this, that or the other. You know, when you call the police, when they call the School District or the cluster leader or someone else. That really needs to be clear and that is not in this manual. /BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. gives you a lot of people and a lot of numbers. You know, but this absolutely -- this does not do it. It doesn't do it. Now, if you would like, we can ask some people to come up with something we would like to see; I would be willing to do that, but it seems to me that you have enough people there who can come up with a system, a one-page thing. If there is a shooting, you call the police. If a kid is really sick, you call the Superintendent's Office or the nurse at the Board, I don't know. But I don't understand why it takes a year to get to an answer to such a basic issue of health emergencies in public schools. I don't understand it. I really, really don't.
Well, this certainly does continue to be an important issue for us, and we will be pleased to continue to work with the Councilwoman on this. Happily, even in the hearings, Children's Hospital and the Health Department both testified that the school had to -- acted properly with respect to the medical condition of the child, and I was grateful for that. And then, as 2357 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. you say, some months later, when a similar issue arose, the level of concern was not nearly as great. There are different conditions that arise, and principals have to react differently. It comes to my mind recently that the Wagner School had an emergency and actually had to evacuate, and within an hour, through the Cluster Office, had worked out the movement of the children to another school just a little ways away. So there are different ones in different places. But kids have a right to feel safe, parents have a right to feel that there children are safe. And we happily have had very few instances in which there's been an actual emergency that has been inappropriately dealt with. But we've got to be ever vigilant to that and continue to look to ways to deal with it.
Excuse me, Councilwoman. At the request of the stenographer, at this point, we're going to take a ten-minute 2358 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. recess.
Thank you. (Short recess taken.) - - - (Proceedings resume.)
We are now back in session. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell to continue her line of questioning, please.
Thank you, Madam President. Yes, we were talking about this Crisis/Safety Procedure Manual, which has been around for I don't know how long but that doesn't really doesn't do the job. I again say that we need a system to deal with emergencies. We've had increasingly, as we've had crime in our cities and we've had shootings in school, and unfortunately, inside of schools, we have to have a manual that does the job. And I have no idea why I would be sent the same one over in a different color. 2359 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. And, Madam President, I would like to request that before we pass a budget that we have a -- I mean, we've been waiting at least a year -- that we have a manual to deal with health emergencies for all schools, all public schools in our city, and that the Board come up with one and that they submit it to the Chair for certainly our review so that we can say at least say, after all this time, that we have a solution that everyone can adhere to. We all know, Dr. Hornbeck, all of us know of some instances where some things have fallen through the cracks, where you have acting principals or where there's no one in the school, and we have to try to have a system as tight as possible when it comes to the health and the safety of children. I'm sure you'll agree with that and certainly would appreciate hearing a response in that regard.
I'm asking for us to have a manual or a form, whatever the 2360 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. District -- whatever form the District would like it to have, that will deal with health emergencies that every school principal and student and the School District, that everyone can have and refer to so that we don't have to continue to have this debate through a next administration before we pass our budget, then we know we'll have one.
We will take another shot at putting something together that deals with it in a way that's satisfactory to the President and to the Council.
Thank you. On another issue, Section 2 of this manual, Philadelphia City Council Briefing Papers, I thought this was quite a good manual. And we would hope that the School District would consider the suggestions mentioned on talking about recruitment and feeder patterns -- let me make sure I'm in the right section. That's , Focus Recruitment of Major Feeder Schools, and those kinds of things. 2361 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Before we consider the residency issue, certainly I think all of us in City Council want to be comfortable because we're so opposed to it and we have so much unemployment here, we would like to know that we've tried to deal with recruitment of major feeder schools, which is an excellent idea, job fairs, college visits, etc. etc. So we really, really feel that's really important, and the President has mentioned every year our concerns about residency as long as I can remember. So we're glad to see that you mentioned other options that we can do before that even has to be considered. With regard to Section 5 dealing with the school safety and these truancy centers, my question is: Are these truancy centers in place now and how do they operate?
Excuse me. The truancy center is in operation. There's one of them -- this particular initiative is one that Commissioner Timoney and I launched some months ago in which if the police or SEPTA or the Housing Authority police pick up a student who is truant, they are to bring them to one of three places: in 2362 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Center City, to the former Palombo School; if they are if the vicinity of the their home school, to that school; and if they are neither in Center City nor in the vicinity of their home school, to the nearest age-appropriate school. And they have been in place since I believe October. And as the document says, between October and February, about 7,000 students were picked up and escorted to one of those three places. And out of the 7,000, about 600 were taken to the truancy center at the former Palombo School.
I know that program. We had the discussion because I was concerned about a child who lives in West Philadelphia being dropped off at Palombo School and having a gang war or a fight with the officers about going into unfriendly turf, and I have no 20 idea how that hasn't created a problem as of yet, and I'm really, really concerned about that. I still think it would be easier to have a child dropped off at a police station and wait for parent than have the child dropped off, in their view, enemy territory where they could end up 2363 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. being a victim of other violence. But I suppose if you haven't had a problem to date, but I would hope that you would consider that. What is Cluster-Based Truancy Court?
Earlier in the fall -- historically, when a child is brought to Truancy Court, it's been at 1801 Vine Street, and given the number of personnel, etc., we brought kids to Truancy Court after they had had 100 absences. And Judge Pennapinto and we launched a new initiative in about October, September -- sometime in that time period -- in which we have now set up -- I believe it's four Truancy Courts in four of the clusters. And we are able to bring students with 50 absences or more into court, and the master there, in effect, has all the powers that the Truancy Court would have had at 1801, but to have it on-site in the cluster means that school personnel can get there more easily. The design of some program for the student can take place more effectively and so on. And parents can be there. 2364 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
All right, I remember -- I didn't realize this was the Judge Pennapinto model. I think he and those concerned have done an excellent job in focusing on this issue and in trying to come up with a good program. A drug-free zone sign. Now, what penalty -- what's a drug-free zone and what penalty is attached, do you know?
John, excuse me. Why don't you come up to the table, identify yourself, and respond, please. (John McLees comes forward.)
John McLees, the School District. Good afternoon. The drug-free zone, it's a federal law anything -- anyone dealing with drugs within a thousand feet of a school, upon conviction and sentencing for the violation, the judge has the power to inflict added sentencing to the violator.
Okay. And that's up to the judge then, but he does have that 2365 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. option? This gives him an option to --
Yes, Councilwoman Blackwell, it's up to the discretion of the judge upon conviction and at sentencing.
Excuse me. I believe Councilman Rizzo would like to follow up on that.
This is a follow-up, but it's not directly tied to that question. I just had a quick question while Mr. McLees is here. Mr. McLees, can you tell me how many Philadelphia police officers are assigned to all of the public schools?
Yes, sir, Councilman Rizzo. There aren't really any school police officers assigned to public schools. What it is, there are several community beats that the Police Department has out and assigns their officers to, and quite a few of those community beats encompass our schools.
Excuse me. I think that has to be clarified. It's not inside of the school. 2366 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
But those officers are committed. Councilwoman Miller brought up the point that there was a community outcry when commanders and Superintendent Hornbeck said he discussed with the commanders, when those officers were -- the captains got to the point where they could barely staff the cars in the districts, and they had police officers committed to these communities. If you want to use a trick word to say that we've got Philadelphia police officers tied up policing our schools when 911 calls don't get answered in other communities, you can call it whatever you want, these officer are tied up and can't be utilized for very little than a block each way of the school. So how many police officers -- do you have any idea of how many of these community beats that we have where they've, you know, manipulated the words?
Off the top of my head, I 2367 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. really don't have a number I could respond to you with, sir. What it is, the officers -- this has been ongoing for the past couple of years. The Philadelphia police officers spend time in our schools. The officers who walk those beats certainly stop in, they talk to the principal, they talk to our school police officers, and the provide one heck of a service to the school system.
But the captains in the districts got to the point where they almost went to battle with their superiors because they didn't believe that this assignment of police officers to the schools was an appropriate assignment because they couldn't -- there were some districts where they didn't have enough -- they had more police officers at the schools than they had in the district, controlling the district.
Well, I don't know if that was the case. I think that's kind of a stretch saying they had more police officers inside of the schools. 2368 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
I'm not saying inside; I'm saying tied up on some of the community beats to the point where these cars couldn't be -- and I apologize, Councilman Nutter, I wasn't supposed to get this involved. I mean, there's no secret here, that the captains of the districts pulled those officers and had to be ordered to put them back.
Thank you, Madam President. I think to add to what Councilman Rizzo is saying is that in many schools in our district, whether the officers are assigned to what you're calling a "community beat," however, some of those officers are in schools pretty much most of the day, physically in the school. And in the 8th District, with Germantown High, Gratz and some other schools, when the officer was really assigned to a community beat, walking around the external area 2369 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. of the school, coming into the school, like a beat, starting on the top floor and working his way down, then there was an outcry when pretty much staff thought and parents thought that they would lose the presence of a police officer physically in the school. And I can remember as far back as the '70s when police officers were in schools. I know at Germantown High, when it was the gang war era, they were physically in Germantown High every day 'cause my mother went there and volunteered there every day and my brothers were going there then. So the number of community beats is what you're really looking for.
What I'd like to know is who's the requester for a community beat is? It the School District of Philadelphia that says -- I'm sure the captains don't just tie up their folks and say, Well, we should have a community beat at Germantown. Who initiates the request for a community beat at a Philadelphia school? When I constantly run into Philadelphia police officers 2370 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. -- sergeants, lieutenants, and captains -- they tell me that they wish that they had those officers back.
Let me take a shot at responding, Councilman Rizzo. As Councilwoman Miller suggests, years ago, there were a lot of 8 Philadelphia police officers that were literally 9 assigned to schools. Somewhere between then and 10 now, it's my understanding that there are no 11 longer any police officers assigned to schools. 12 But what they are assigned to are these community 13 beats that are bigger than the schools. 14 The practice is -- and as far as I'm 15 knowledgeable of it, the issue has only been 16 raised in one district. There may be others, but 17 I was only involved in one, and I think it was the 18 39th. 19
Okay, the 39th and the 23 14th, where there had been a long practice as part 24 of this community beat process of the officer and 25 a couple of these high schools particularly going 2371 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. and being a physical presence in the high school for a substantial portion of the day. And it was the view of parents and teachers and principals and the Superintendent that that presence in those places had a positive impact. There was a decision by the -- or at least a tentative decision by the captains in, I guess, the two districts that the deployment of his officers would serve the larger good of public safety better by saying to the officers, Don't go and spend a substantial portion of your time in the school buildings. And as in any community, when police officers are redeployed, whether it's a school or anything else, there were parents and teachers and principals who said, We don't want you to do that. And so there were a group of people like there are in any community who said, We do want you to do that. And a group that said, We don't want you to do it. And captains, like principals and cluster leaders and superintendents and teachers, are faced with two good things, and they can't serve both masters.
Superintendent, you 2372 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. call it what you'd like to call it. We have police officers in schools. If we had to come up with this tricky term, "community beats," to say we don't have police officers in some school.
And we're not saying that, so whoever's saying it, they may not be honest, but it doesn't have to do anything with anybody sitting at this table. We didn't come up with the term.
But who requests these community beats? Who came up with the term?
If the captain didn't want it, is this something that your school security force asks for?
No. What I'm trying to say to you is that this has been there for quite a long period of time. In fact, it used to be that these people were actually assigned there by the Police Commissioner. And what we asked for was that they remain there; we didn't ask that they be 2373 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. there in the first place.
It's an appropriate assignment for the School District police to handle, and give us back the Philadelphia police to do other things.
Well, what we have found is that public safety, from our perspective, which includes the school, where there's the greatest concentration of people anywhere in the School District, that the big issue of public school safety, in our judgment, is best served by having a policeman disproportionately in the school. Now, clearly, the Captain has the power to take that person out of there. But just as you all sometimes come to me and say, Would you please spend money over there rather than over there, we 2374 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. go to --
We believe that our kids and our parents and our teachers and our principals were well served by this, and so when that decision started down a different pike, we went and said, Please don't pull the policemen out of these two or three different schools, leave them there because they serve a great public good there. That's all.
And with that, the captains were overruled and told to put the police officers back. I mean, we can say it however we want to say it, but they were overruled and were told to put the police officers back.
Well, it could be. I don't know what the chain of command is or who gave the orders --
Thank you. I just wanted to -- Thank you, Madam Chair. 2375 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
You're welcome. Councilwoman, I think you've had your five minutes. Can I go before you for just two seconds? Mr. Hornbeck, are substitute teachers being trained before they're being assigned to special ed. Classes? I know that this was a very important issue because of several incidents last year. And we suggested that substitute teachers, particularly those who have probably never been in the classroom before, at least have some training.
Please respond to that (addressing Marjorie Adler). (Marjorie Adler comes forward.)
Certified substitutes are not -- people who are certified in the area in which they're teaching are not generally given anything more than an orientation. An emergency certified substitute is given training before they're put in classrooms. 2376 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
I don't want to bring up an ugly situation that happened last year, but we were told that the substitute teacher was recently out of college and did not have any training with special ed. children.
That is possible if it were a person under an emergency certification, someone who is --
Well, with the shortage that we have, I would think that happens more frequently than not.
So, again, my question is: Are we giving substitute teachers some sort of training before they're put into special ed. classes? And if we're not, don't you think we should be.
Okay. I'd like to go back to the cluster schools for just a second. 2377 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. When did we go into cluster schools, about two years ago? Has it been about two years -- charter schools, I'm sorry.
The charters. We are in our second year now and third year coming up.
Okay. With those that have been in existence for the last two years, is it the School District's responsibility or is it the State's responsibility to take assessment as to whether they're doing well, whether they're huge successes, are they failures? Who actually makes that determination?
Well, one of the things that we required in terms of academic success is that each school use the same assessment instrument that we use so that we know apples and apples. And there are only four schools that have been in existence long enough to have taken that test. Those were the schools that were in the first year. And I think we have that data, but we haven't finished putting it all together yet. We, quite candidly, did the School District's 249 schools before we went and looked at those four 2378 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. schools.
But each year, we will be giving -- the test will be given to the charter-school kids, also.
In no instance do we even have the data that would permit us to draw comparisons yet. The baseline year for those four schools was the spring of '98. And then this spring, we'll do it the second time. So that'll be the first moment that we can do any comparisons, even on the first four. And then it will be a year from now for the next thirteen.
I noticed, I guess in the book here, that $1 million -- and it's costing us over $1 million in school books that were either lost or not returned. How does that million figure compare to what it was two years ago? I thought it was outlandish two years. Are we improving on that at all? A million is an awful lot of money, in my 2379 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. book.
I don't think we have that number here, President Verna, but we will get that. I think we're going to find that there's not much change in it. But without me speculating, let us just get you that number.
I think we should be looking at ways that we could cut that down. I don't know, I don't know that any other school would allow that to happen. A million dollars is a lot of money.
Unfortunately, every school district has that problem; it's not that they --
Well, I don't know. Maybe the school district that I was in certainly wouldn't allow it because you either brought your books in or you suffered the repercussions for it.
One of the things that you should know is that State law actually, in the end, prohibits, for example, our withholding grades or diplomas until a student returns or pays for his book. And it may be the case, 'cause many 2380 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. school districts across America do it, that whatever school district you were in did have the power to withhold grades or to withhold a diploma.
Well, if that's the State law, well then maybe they should give us the million dollars if they treat it so lightly.
When will Bartram High School receive their walk-through metal detectors? I understand it will be shortly, but I don't know what "shortly" really means.
Madam President, John McLees. "Shortly" is the answer. The equipment is ordered. We're hoping within three weeks, at the most, that the equipment will be in and then will be in Bartram and up and running, almost overnight.
Thank you very much. 2381 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Let me put at least one thing on the record based on the earlier discussion, and I think I must have missed part of it when Councilwoman Miller had raised it. But with regard to the officers at schools, I seem to recall that sometime last year, this was an issue that I had dealt with, with regard, I believe, to the 39th District and some parents -- possibly even some school personnel -- had contacted me about officers being reassigned away from the school. I weighed in in that particular case on the side of the parents and the school, given some of the situations that had happened in previous year, and I really didn't see anything wrong with police officers, who are sworn to serve everyone in the city, whose parents pay all of our various salaries, and with regard to City personnel, a hundred percent of their salary, as contrasted to 2382 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. School District personnel. And I believe that those officers, whether out on patrol in cars or on foot, serve a larger purpose, not only for the safety of the school-aged children but also the older adult police station that lives in the community. So I mean, I'm not exactly sure what the big issue was at the time. I think captains or lieutenants or sergeants or anybody else in a paramilitary organization understands that things roll down, decisions are made, perspectives are taken into consideration, and then you do what you are told to do. And so if the citizens of this city, whether school-aged children or adults, request service from Philadelphia police officers, we expect that we will get it. So I think if there are particular situations where there are personnel shortages or problems, if we can get any information on those or more specific cases brought to light, I'd be, you know, interested in hearing about them, but that issue was not raised when the Police Commissioner was here. Let me talk about a couple of things 2383 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. that were still on my list. Superintendent, what in your view has been the impact of the elimination of the truancy officers? I seem to recall maybe two, three, maybe four budgets ago. I think at that time, there were 43 truancy officers, and whatever budget year that was, maybe 42 of them were eliminated. Do we have any data to compare what the truancy rate was during those years as compared to post-elimination of truancy officer years?
Well, let me say that it was more than five budgets ago because this is my fifth budget, and it was done before I became superintendent. And we may be able to dig out that data. I do know that in these last three years, in our comparative, that student attendance has improved and --
Maybe some of the kids weren't coming to school because of the truancy officers. (Laughter.)
Well, I think it was, 2384 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. instead, that their initiatives --
I mean, it's 3:35 in the afternoon, I haven't been funny in two hours. (Laughter.)
I think that what we've found is that many times, there are other kinds of initiatives that work better with dealing with truancy than people who are assigned specifically to those duties.
And we had a discussion some hours ago about the absentee rate. We talked about a 95 percent present rate by students and whatever those numbers were at that time. I assume, though, that there is in the District's calculations a difference between what someone might consider to be an absentee rate versus a truancy rate based on the notion that everyone who is absent is not necessarily true; is that correct.
That's correct. We at least in shorthand ways, we sometimes refer to the fact that there are roughly 30,000 a kids that are 2385 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. absent.
Okay. And based on 10 the earlier discussion, I think we had already 11 figured out that maybe 10,000 of them could 12 actually be high-school students? 13
Gotcha, okay. If you do have any comparative data between what was going on at the time of truancy officers, what's happened in the post years, that would be helpful. What, if any, data do we have on the 2386 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. number of graduating students, 12th-grade graduating students who go on to get employment opportunities here in Philadelphia?
It's fairly murky because it is relatively difficult to track kids even into college.
Once a kid graduates from high school, his interest in responding to surveys drops off significantly.
And that's also true even more so with youngsters who go to work. Whether Mary Jane Clancy, in Education for Employment, has numbers that are worth anything in that regard or not, we will ask to see.
I primarily ask because, again, I seem to recall a couple years ago, there was some pronouncement, I think, from the Philadelphia business community, Philadelphia employers, about an effort to step up their efforts and almost, I guess provide, an incentive, 2387 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. if you will, for students staying in school, graduating, and then, I mean, a little bit of a promise at the end of that rainbow, whether your rainbow is when you come out of 12th grade or if you go on to college, maybe coming back, that we would try to provide some kind of employment opportunities for our homegrown people.
We in the PIC and some of the members of Philadelphia's corporate community have been trying to figure out a way to legally use the high school transcript as a part of a passport to give a greater level of access to employment. It's got some problems associated with it from a legal point of view, going back to a time that people erected false criteria for employment to keep people out of jobs. And how to use it in a positive way rather than a negative way is something that we're struggling with. But the idea is to be able to say to kids, If you work hard and if you get your diploma and if you do well in your courses, then you get something for that -- which is called a job, or which is called entry into higher education. 2388 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. And so we're working actively on that.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you, Madam President. Superintendent Hornbeck, I want to follow up on a charter school question. And that is, what has the District's general approach been to charter schools? And is there going to be a maximum? Do you support 'em? Do you not support them? I know you vote for them. And if they're impacting the budget, then one would wonder how many is the School District going to actually approve.
Well, the concept of the charter school is one that the Board and I very much support. And what I mean by "the concept" is a school that has clearly defined outcome standards and maximum flexibility to achieve those 2389 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. standards without the constraints that come from either local or State law and regulation or contractual restraints or impediments. So that in concept, it makes a lot of sense. It is the implementation of it that causes a lot of challenges. There's a huge amount of time and energy and financial resources that -- never mind the $40 million, I'll get to that in a minute. But our senior staff at the District have spent a very large amount of time analyzing the budgets, the programs, the curriculum, the staffing, the Board composition, the physical facilities, the whole nine yards, to try to determine whether, in fact, a particular charter ought to be approved in the first instance. And every week, month, year that passes, the amount of time that's devoted to that increases more, basically without any increase in -- I mean, people have just added this to their previous duties. We have, as we testified earlier, now approved a total of charter schools in the 25 District, and those are at direct response of the 2390 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. School Board. As I said earlier, there is a State Appeal Board that is going into place now. And for all I know, they may approve a whole bunch more in the course of it. And the net cost to the District will be, as I say, next year, $40 million. The fact is, I realized the other day that the net increase for '99-2000 for charter schools is $27 million, roughly. And that makes, you know, that's a whole lot more than the reduced class size initiative, it's a lot more than kindergarten, it's a lot more than the bilingual -- I mean, it's a huge apt of money into something around which there's no evidence that, in fact, kids will be able to read and do math and do science better. We have approved it because the State law says, We shall have charter schools and school boards should approve charter schools that meet these kinds of criteria. And if you don't approve 'em, then we'll approve 'em. And so the Board has, I think, done an outstanding job of trying to be responsible in its examination of charter schools, despite the fact 2391 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. that every single time there's an approval given, it's another million dollars out the door or more -- about a million and a half.
Will they also be a part of this accountability system?
They'll have to take the same tests, and we will be able to report on their performance, but they will not be subject to the review and the supports and the reconstitution that our own schools would be subject to. The place where accountability for them would kick in is at the end of their charter, they are chartered for five years? -- four years, they're chartered for four years. And so at the end of the four years, one of the things that would be taken into account is their performance, as the Board looks to see whether they should be -- their charter should be extended or not. And, you know, if we had four years of data saying they were doing a lousy job with kids, then my expectation would be that the Board would take that very seriously into consideration in 2392 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. whether or not to extend the charter.
Okay. Hold up, I have another question that I want to ask, Councilwoman Verna.
Do you have an agenda for tomorrow on who's going to be presenting? Because some of my questions, I can hold off on till tomorrow.
We have no further presentations to make. We are at Council's disposal for the balance of whatever time you want to spend.
Okay. 'Cause I think I remember that last year pretty much went like today, but I think the next day you had cluster leaders and so on and so forth here.
Well, we made a decision this year to forego some of the presentations that some members of Council actually asked us to forego some of the opportunity that we gave you last year. And so we did.
Okay. Well, how many computers do you have? You have 213 (sic) 2393 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. students in the Philadelphia school system?
And we have 1 for every 10 kids. So 10 into is 213,000 is 21,300, so we've got a little over 20,000 computers.
Thank you, okay. And I also have a question regarding teacher training. When you decide to implement -- or whether you've done it or not -- to implement other ways to attract teachers here to Philadelphia, will you have training that includes training of new teachers around the issues of working with urban youth?
The answer to that is yes at number of different levels -- not limited, I might say, to new teachers. But one of the reasons that we've increased the number of student-teacher, young people in their senior year in college in our schools, is that that gives them and us an opportunity to look at each other and, in a sense, see what you're buying. It gives them that kind of an opportunity and that sort of exposure. We also have been working with a Council of Deans of Colleges of Education from 2394 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. around Pennsylvania where part of the effort is to get their classes to be more sensitive to or alert to the kind of special opportunities and special challenges that exist in an urban setting. We also have been trying to, not just for new teachers but for all teachers, to provide them with additional support in terms of curriculum and instructional strategies. For example, in one of your packets, there's a little compact disk in which we have taken the standards and the benchmarks the kids need to meet and curriculum and instructional strategies and alternative assessment strategies and best instructional practices for the 1st grade, the 2nd grade, the 3rd grade, the 4th grade, 5th grade, etc., up to the 12th grade, and put them on that (holding up computer diskette). So that a teacher can now take this compact disk and stick it in the computer, and it's a tremendous contribution to the ability to build lesson plans and to know what to teach tomorrow and how that ties back to the standard. In addition, we have expanded hugely the professional development generally. In some 2395 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. ways, the most important curriculum piece of that is something we refer to as the "Content Institutes," which are a week or more, and they happen during the fall and they happen during the summer. For example, in the summer, in the summer of '96, we had 900 teachers and principals participate in that. In the summer of '97, we had 1700 participate in it. And this past summer, we had 5300 participate. So both the quality and quantity of helping teachers know how to both put the special needs of the child together with the level of achievement the child needs to reach together.
Okay. That sounds really good. I have another question just around accountability. In your mentoring program, would you say that your student teachers right now are like in the mentoring phase? And hopefully they'll come into the Philadelphia public school system. But if it's a new student, a new college graduate, prior to getting employed on a permanent basis, don't you think it would be wise to have a prementoring phase so they can partner up with 2396 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. another teacher before you bring 'em on full-time?
The teachers who are newly hired, whom we know who they are by, I believe, it's August, do have a training period during August that they come to. Now, if they come after September, they obviously don't get the pre-thing (sic), but they do get a mentor, an experienced teacher who is assigned to each one to give them support and to help them transition into the school and so on. In fact, it's a State requirement that that happens.
Okay, one other thing. I observed in an elementary school once that I think the teacher felt the students were holding her hostage because, certainly, the children -- some of the children understand this whole new accountability system. And this was maybe in the first year that that program was implemented. Has -- to me, the teacher was really nervous, she was upset. And has that kind of relaxed? Have people gotten used to the fact that there are rewards and penalties and the whole bit 2397 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. as it's related to a teacher's accountability and performance?
Well, I won't say that it's gone away because there remains, no doubt, some anxiety. Anytime that any of us in any of our jobs is accountable with rewards and penalties, there's some anxiety there. But I do think that it's a good deal more constructive today than it was three years ago. There was a -- I think in some quarters, a sort of a sense of a guillotine hanging over somebody's head. And what I think people have begun to discover is that people get help when they're having trouble. We've started even things like the Peer Intervention Program and Partnership with the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers, where there are teachers who are not doing well, with whom we work in order to help them do better. And so I don't think -- I think that people are slowly beginning to understand that this is not about punishing people, and it's certainly not about punishing them in the first instance. It is, instead, about defining clearly what it is our kids ought to know and be able to 2398 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. do, and then providing folks with the kinds of resources that help them get there. And they also have discovered that if a school team will continue to work aggressively at trying to improve, that there will not be an individual penalty of any kind that comes down the pike. The only time that people face any threat of broad-based penalty as a consequence of this is if, in fact, there is strong evidence that they just don't care anymore and that they're not going to try to improve the situation in the school. And in those instances, they will discover that they really are -- there really is not just a threat, but a real live possibility that there may be penalties that come.
Okay. Thank you. I don't have any more questions, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, 2399 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Madam President. I only have a couple more questions -- one being the Truancy Court and also this new system that Commissioner Timoney helped to come up with. How is it being received by the parents? Are there any problems, or how is it being received by the community?
Well, we've had, for example, with the pickups, there's 7,000 students that have been picked up. And there have been, to my knowledge, only two things that have come to my attention that have provoked grave concern, and in both instances, they are legitimate concerns. One instance was a young man who went to a doctor and he didn't have any indication of that, so the police picked him up, and the parent was irate that this good kid should have been picked up. And so it led us all to reiterate that kids going out on legitimate things ought to have identification of one kind or another. But out of 7,000, there have been 4 kids what have provoked, you know, a bad response. And we've gotten 7,000 kids back into school. So it's a small cost for, I think, a big 2400 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. gain.
In terms of the books issue, textbooks issue, I understand, or I read in here that there's a big decrease from September of '98 until present with hotline calls. In fact, your notes say here they received only 8 calls, which is -- and the year before, from 9 January to June, they received 272 calls. 10 Is everything else still in place? I 11 mean, is the hotline as operational as before? 12 Are there brochures and information out to the 13 same degree as the year before? 14
Well, I guess, in one 15 sense, we haven't had further news conferences, 16 although, I guess, actually, there was a big story at books not long ago, in which context we reiterated that. But I'm just happy to say that over the course of this year, we've just seen on every front a marked decline in the number of reports. That's not to say it's gone away by any means, and I had a group of students meet with me about three weeks ago from a particular high school who said, We've got book problems. And so said to 'em, Go 2401 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. tell me which class and which books, and you will no longer have book problems. And what I'm anxious to see is what they come back with because it's pretty easy, against the backdrop of the history of the School District, to say, We've got book problems. I find that when I ask people for specifics, that the specifics fall off significantly then.
Yes, I know. We still get complaints about books. So I wondered if it was maybe not getting as much attention and advertising as it did when the program started.
Well, I hope that anytime you get -- I simply need to know that it's, you know, Mrs. Jones' class at West Philadelphia High School, who teaches English, doesn't have any books. And we will -- there is no longer any financial reason that that should be the case. And let me reiterate that it's not just having the book, but the kid can take the book home for homework too. That's the policy. And any time that that is not the practice, then the 2402 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. person, the school, the teacher, or whomever, is acting against policy.
With regard to summer school, I've always regretted us cutting back on summer school, and I'm glad to see that we're continuing it in certain grades. Is it be possible for us in the future for us to earmark it for like maybe middle school and high school and or to increase it? Is there a plan to increase it as we go along?
For the last six or eight years, sometime before I got here, all summer programs were cut out except for those seniors who needed a credit or two to graduate. This year, in the summer, we will offer programs for 3rd-graders 7th-graders, 9th-graders, and 11th- graders in addition to the 12th-graders. And we do that in those particular grades because in '99-2000, we will be beginning to eliminate social promotion, and what we want to do is to try to identify those kids who might otherwise fail, and give them help before they fail. Now, the Fair Opportunities to Learn 2403 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. standards that are in your materials, and to which I have referred several times, does provide -- and it's that $300 million to which the President referred a little while ago, it does provide summer school for kindergarten through the 12th grade, because we have to do it for everybody.
So we will have it when we make -- is that the Year 2000 that we do that?
It is projected now for the -- it would be for the summer of 2000.
Now we have to have a breakthrough with Harrisburg for that to happen. But that's the planned moment when that piece is to move into place.
Yeah, because I think it would be important for us to have summer school for those kids. Otherwise, we may have a problem with classes being overcrowded. We could have another kind of a problem that took us here in the first place.
Madam 2404 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. President, I think that's it for me for today.
Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions at this time.)
So the committee will stand recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow. It may be a short day tomorrow; however, on Wednesday, I do believe we have a number of people who have called that do want to testify. So on Wednesday, we will start our public hearing at 3 o'clock. (Adjourned at 3:50 p.m.) - - - 2405 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Monday, March 1, 1999, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE BUDGET HEARINGS BILL NO. 990026, 990027, 990028 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter