Well, I just think that trying not to alienate everyone west of City Line Avenue may be a good start and the right direction.
Well, I tend to think that raising test scores and dealing with costs is an important set of initiatives that we present to you as measurable evidence of this. And I must admit that I do wish that I would hear some major celebration from some folks about doing what a school district is supposed to do -- and that is 2229 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. improving reading, math, and science.
What is your definition of "administrative personnel"? What is administrative personnel, and what is your definition of "instructional personnel"?
Well, a teacher is clearly instructional. And I'm an administrator. Now, in between me and the teacher, there are lots of people that fall along that spectrum.
Well, I think, for example, of the instructional leader of each school, the principal being an instructional person, and he's not in the classroom.
A principal by definition is not an administrator of that facility?
What is a cluster 2230 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. leader? Is that an administrative or instructional person?
I think of a facilitator, for example, as an instructional person.
I guess the confusion is that how we count instructional people versus administrative people, and whether or not the people who are actually doing the work in the clusters -- training, administration -- are being counted as instructional people and, therefore, maybe are misleading some of us I guess as to what levels of people are actually doing and what levels of people are doing administration.
Well, in terms of what I've laid out in front of you, it would be -- I 2231 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. guess the Secretary of Education that was misleading you because we do apples and apples on the State Department of Education forms. And when I reported to you a little while ago that we spend more of each dollar on instruction than on other costs, that's State Department of Education definitions.
I'm just trying to understand, under this cluster system, which individuals are considered and counted as instructional individuals, instructional personnel that are not in the classroom, or if there are any. I mean, I'll go down the list. Cluster leader would be an administrator.
Yeah, we can tell you -- in fact, it's in the budget book and I'd be glad to point it out.
A cluster leader, you've testified, is an administrative in your mind. (Jack Meyers comes forward.) 2232 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
For the record, my name is Jack Meyers. I am the Director of Financial Planning and Analysis. And one of my responsibilities is the editing the budget book. With respect to the tables and charts in the book where we divide everything by function, it is an attempt to align the book with commonly-held definitions. There are multiple definitions, and even among the State and Price Waterhouse and ourselves. However, now, with regard to the cluster leaders, they are obviously administrative personnel. I'd like to make the differentiation between administrator, O-R, and administrative, I-V-E, because administrative personnel, which is what we use in this definition, includes their secretaries as well and support personnel as well.
Are they counted as instructional or administrative? Let me go down the --
Cluster leaders are 2233 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. administrative. The administrative assistant to the cluster leader is --
We have a very broad definition, and even with our broad definition, it is a smaller percentage than you'll find most anywhere.
That's not my question. The question is: Are there people who are counted as instructional that are not in the classroom?
Outside the book. 2234 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Facilitators are listed as training and professional, which the State calls "instructional support."
For my nonprofessional educational administrator mind, the person -- is anybody counted as an instructional personnel that's not in the classroom?
As I said, there's another column right next to it that's called "In-School Instructional Leadership and Support."
No. Now, the first column would include teachers as well as paraprofessionals.
Teachers, we don't have any argument with, no argument.
I think that time 2235 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. is -- I don't know, I'm confused. It's like --
I don't know that Councilman Kenney's question has been answered.
Well, I want to do it because there's nothing misleading about this, so as long as Madam President will let us stay with it, I think that there's nothing in here that's counted as instructional who's not in the classroom.
Then why the caveat that it's not in the book? That is intriguing. Why would it not be in the book?
Because the definitions I've used in the book are the ones that I believe you're reading from. What I'm saying to you is there is a Price Waterhouse methodology of classifying, which is different, and the State's, which is slightly different. I'm trying to refer to the one that's in front of you here.
Are there people on the payroll of the School District of Philadelphia that are not in the classroom that are being 2236 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. counted as instructional personnel?
We're doing the budget, this is the budget book. Is there some other book?
Let me ask a different question. Are there people who are counted as instructional by the State who are not in the classroom?
Okay, that's the reason we refer to the book 'cause the State counts it differently.
Off the top of my head, I'd have to go through it. It's a very convoluted 2237 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. structure. They have two categories: one is called "instruction," and the other is called "instructional support." Some of the things that you and I would commonly think of as instruction, they have as "instructional support."
Let me ask you a question; you don't have to answer it now, but you can give it to me in writing.
I just need to know how many people are counted as instructional by the State that's not in the classroom on a daily basis doing what functions as we all understand to be teaching.
Right. The only teachers I have in this column that are listed are classroom teachers.
But as the State counts them, if you could give me that list.
Of how many there 2238 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. are and what their salaries are.
Thank you, Madam President. Dr. Hornbeck, I'd like to ask you a series of questions, keeping in mind with either your testimony or some statements made by President Alston. On of President Alston's testimony -- and I don't necessarily expect an answer immediately -- there is this statement: "When children come to school hungry, have chronic diseases which remain untreated because their parents have no health insurance or have to worry about where they will lay their head each night because their family is homeless, they are not going to perform at high academic levels" -- which I would agree with the statement. Is there any way, though, of giving an estimate or a calculation to how many children fit 2239 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. in any one of those three categories?
We can give you an estimate of the kids who do not have, for example, health insurance, either Medicaid or health insurance.
And we've been on a campaign to cut that back, and we've added about 4,000 to the rolls of those who do have access to health support.
If my memory serves me correctly, that leaves us about 8 or 9,000 who do not, by way of example.
That's the one where the numbers are clearest because we can actually track that.
Okay, whatever it is you that you can get to us through the Chair, I would greatly appreciate it on that issue. In Section 1 of the selected issues, the briefing papers book, Section 1, has a section on attendance, promotion, and persistence. 2240 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. And the numbers, as presented, are that you had staff present more than 95 percent of the time, and that increased from 41.8 from to 54.5 percent for the fall of '95 to the spring of '98. Not to end up in the same kind of quagmire discussion as the earlier one, staff, is that teaching staff, is that all staff, is that everybody at a school, is that everybody in the entire District? What does the term cover?
That includes all the staff at the school, not just teachers.
Okay. Can you break that out by category or by job function? In other words, can you tell me what the teacher component of that is, if there's an administrator or an administrative component and if there are other people who work at the school who have nothing to do, obviously, with instruction or administration.
We have not reported the 2241 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. data yet that way, but I think we can do it so we'll get you that.
Okay. I mean, is 95 percent present so high or unreasonable a rate for people to be at work that the number in the spring of '98 was 54.5 percent?
We believe that 95 percent, we arrived at that number for two reasons. One is that across the United States, the average absenteeism rate each day is 5 percent, and we were a couple years ago at 10 percent. So we decided that if we could get it to the national average, then that wouldn't be half bad. And the other reason is that in the 4 or 5 percent range, that begins to be sort of a reasonable thing.
Right, no, I understand that. Can you give us -- not today. Can you give us what those percentages are for 90 percent?
All right. And, lastly, does that figure specifically for teachers, does that include teachers who are 2242 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. either out on sabbatical or possibly long-term or even short-term disability or injury or sickness or anything like that?
It does not include teachers out on sabbatical, but I believe it includes every other reason for not being present. Because this is not about individual teacher absenteeism; it's about the school. There's another whole set of rules and regulations that relate to like disciplinary factors related to absenteeism.
I cannot give you that off the top of my head, but we can certainly give you that.
Okay. Yeah, I'd like to see that at other district facilities that are not places where students learn. And now, the student numbers, unfortunately, are even lower -- 95 percent attendance, 34.3 percent in the fall, I guess, of '95; and 42 percent in the spring of '98. So can you get me the 90 percent 2243 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. numbers --
-- as well? And on any given day, what's the general student attendance?
Well, it's different for the different levels. High school, for example, it's down around 78 percent; and at middle school, about 82 percent; and at elementary school, above 90 percent, about 92 percent.
It's 78 for high school, 82 for middle schools, and about 92 percent for elementary schools.
In the 78 percent of high school, what is percent of the high 19 school population? How many students is that? 20
I think there's roughly 21 5,000 kids in grades 9 to 12. About 55,000 kids 22 in high school, and so 78 percent of that is whatever it is.
You say that on any given day, there are 10,000 high-school students 2244 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. not in school?
Because 22% of 9 55,000 is 10, 11,000 students, right? I mean, I 10 did that well in math. 11
All right. In 14 Section 2, this is the Philadelphia Education 15 Fund, I believe, Study. On , there is a 16 recommendation to modify or eliminate the 17 residency requirement for teachers. 18 What was the genesis of this particular 19 study? This is Dr. Elizabeth -- is that Useen? 20
Well, the Philadelphia 21 Education Fund is an independent entity of the 22 School District but is very much our partner in this process.
And the actual genesis 2245 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. of that particular study -- I'm not -- the Human Resources Office of the School District asked for it. Dr. Useen is the Director of Research at PEF and does really quality work, and we ask them to do things like that for us.
I understand. Do you recall what the -- I mean, I obviously know what "eliminate the residency requirement means," but do you know what the recommendation was by way of modifying the residency requirement? What did the study actually call for? I wasn't able to discern that from the materials that I have here. What did they mean by that?
I don't know specifically, but we can give you the full study. My guess is that it was that in areas of acute need, that it be lifted for a temporary period of time.
Well, they're the kind of things that I mentioned to the President a little while ago. Historically, most severely, 2246 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. higher math, higher science, special education, music in the last three years, world languages. Those kinds of areas.
Are those areas that you're facing the most critical shortages?
Along the continuum, those are the ones at the high end. As I was suggesting a little while ago, for the first time, areas like -- even including grade-school teachers, we are beginning to have shortages as well. But the most acute shortages are in those areas. And, in fact, you have some material here in this book, I think, under Page -- is it 2? Okay, it's Tab 2, the second page where it indicates, for example, the retirement-eligible teachers -- 16 percent of all our math teachers, 13 science, 15 reading, etc.
Those are the most likely new vacancies next year, if this retirement window actually closes. So it's beginning to hit across the board but it's still most acute at those higher levels of math and so on. 2247 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
I would like to piggyback on that a minute, please.
Oh, okay, I understand. Well, it's the prerogative of the Chair.
Tab 2 is somewhat contradictory, though. On , it's also stated that nearly two-thirds of those declining a position who responded to the District survey did, in fact, accept jobs in other districts. So I would think it's the fact that in the suburban schools, they are being paid more. And certainly the condition of the schools is so much better. I mean, I'm sure that if I had an opportunity to teach in a suburban school, I would probably accept that more readily than I would, for example, a school like Penrose, where they're 2248 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. so overcrowded and the conditions are so deplorable, I would go to a suburban school. So I don't know that it's just the residency requirement.
I don't that you didn't say it, but that's a part of the report.
Well, what the surveys yield, as I said earlier, are three primary reasons, and they include what you just said.
Thank you. Mr. Hornbeck, you indicate that before the spring of 2000, you expect additional revenue from government -- local, State and/or federal. What is the total amount of the additional revenue you are expecting? What are your expectations with regard to local funding?
Well, we -- we need to go as far as we can to fill the $94.5 million gap we have right now. And the first objective is to get that down low enough so that we can maintain adequate cash flow to pay our bills from July to 2249 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. next June, and that's going to take a minimum of 40 or $50 million. We may be able to maintain adequate cash flow even if we continue to have a budgetary gap of as much as 30 or 40 or 50 million. Last year, for example, we had 52.5 million that permitted that to happen. My present expectation, though I would certainly be more than happy to accept more, is that Council would vote to give us the $15 million grant that the Mayor has proposed. But if there are other ways that we can work together to enhance revenue even further than that, that would more than terrific.
On the detailed budget, I'd like to know why you are project to go receive less in 1999-2000 in local non-tax revenues.
There are two factors in there -- the William Penn Grant, which is a two-year grant -- a three-year grant, excuse me, which ends in the current fiscal year. And interest earnings for the District we expect to be less for two reasons -- the lower interest rate 2250 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. currently and our lower cash balances available for investment.
On your detail, you show a projected deficit in the 2000-2001 Operating Budget of $532 million. Why are you projecting an increase of approximately $300 million in cost? When do your labor contracts expire, and what are the labor assumptions you have indicated in your budget?
The labor contract, three of them expire this August, and one of them expires in August of 2000. And that projection, if I'm not mistaken, includes nothing beyond the -- nothing beyond the moment when those expire for the labor contracts. The reason for the $300 million increase that you refer to lies in the Fair Opportunities to Learn document that I mentioned a little bit earlier. It is the reduced class size, pre-kindergarten programs, the extra help for kids who will otherwise fail, etc. And that's comes to the $300 million. 2251 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. It's what we identify as necessary by way of resources for us over that one-student generation to get to the world-class standards for 95 percent of the kids.
I know earlier the Price Waterhouse Coopers report that was done for the State indicated the School District could generate savings of approximately $577 million over the next five years. You've indicated in your earlier testimony that you disagreed with their assumptions. Have you shared your concerns and/or disagreements with the Price Waterhouse? And if so, what was their response?
Well, actually, I said in my testimony that it was the independent review of the Management and Productivity Committee of Greater Philadelphia First that disagreed with Price Waterhouse, not me.
Well, whoever disagreed, did they ever take this up? And what was the response?
It basically was -- I mean, in one sentence -- that Price Waterhouse 2252 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. continued to believe that what they had said was correct; including, for example, the student health issue that we talked about earlier where Price Waterhouse recommended that we reduce those expenditures by $20 million and let somebody donate that. We don't -- GPF and we disagree that student health insurances should be donated services. Price Waterhouse, I guess, thinks that somebody's going to give $20 million worth of health services to somebody.
On Page A-11, "System-wide Summary of Positions for Basic Building Services," would you explain what services are provided by this unit, and why there are over 580 non-teaching assistants in this category?
Basic building services include all of our facilities management staff in terms of custodial as well as maintenance. It also includes our security officers who are school police, and it also includes our non-teaching assistants. These are paraprofessionals school-based personnel who are not in the classroom and provide basic support throughout the 2253 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. building, oftentimes looked upon as adding a measure of security throughout the building.
Do you mind going over that briefly, please? Because as I said, I was distracted.
Okay. This category of services includes services to the school buildings as opposed to the school children directly. It includes all of our custodial and maintenance staff, it includes our school police officers, as well as a group of personnel known as "non-teaching assistants," who are in-school personnel, who are not in the classrooms but add a measure of support and security throughout the buildings.
Now, does the School District hire their own painters? And how about people that repair roofs?
Yes, they do. There's, of course, a mixture of -- some services are rendered 2254 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. by contract, and some by our own personnel.
Well, whoever's here from that department, I would suggest that they look at the Barratt Motivation School because the roof has been leaking, and apparently, they were out there to do some work and never went back. So if somebody's here from that department, I suggest that they return.
We were on the scene with your representative at the walk-through, and we noted all of your concerns and we will address them. I also need to tell you that we have invested over a million, million and a half dollars in that facility over the past three or four years, so we have been addressing some of those needs.
You spent all of that money and we still don't have a library? And the books are as old as I am, I guess. And that's old, that's old. MR. MCGLENCHY; the expenditures were to repair the facility.
That's not very old, 2255 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Madam President.
Thank you, Councilman, I appreciate that. (Laughter.)
I would like to have a list of what you've done at that school, please.
And I'd like to know what work you were doing there to make the necessary improvements. And, again, Mr. Hornbeck, I hate to be a nag, but I am telling you, I definitely want a positive answer on Penrose School like yesterday -- because, I'm telling you, I have heard from many of the parents. They're really very, very upset. I don't think that you would like to see any one of your children going to school under those conditions because I certainly wouldn't want 2256 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. to seen one of mine. Why are you projecting sabbatical leave to increase?
Madam President, could I add something about the condition of the schools to make the record a little bit tighter.
Perhaps it would be useful, Mr. Hornbeck, if you responded to the questions that the Councilwoman has raised and give her a before and after. Surely, you have some pictures of the deplorable conditions that she reports. If you could give her a before and after, you could give her confidence that, one, her request was important, and, two, you were making some substantial effort to respond.
At the Bartram Motivation, but there are -- the before-pictures would certainly be much better for Penrose than they are now. 2257 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Right. I mean, I just think that to give you a request and let it go into the vast unknown, without having some response, is upsetting to the elected officials, most especially the President, and I think that you ought to give her some response in writing with as many pictures as promote your position as you can provide.
We certainly will respond. And I've got a sneaking suspicion that Madam President wouldn't let me have things go into the vast unknown anyhow, so --
I don't think so. And, as I said, if need be, you and I are going to take each other's hands and go through every one of these facilities because I just think that something needs to be done. Please tell me why you're projecting sabbatical leave to increase to $20 million in FY '98-'99 and then decrease to $12.2 million in '99-2000.
You're referring to termination pays; sabbatical leave is on the next line. But I'll be glad to answer those questions. 2258 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Yes. The number you're looking at is termination pay. The large amount for termination pay this year happens to be with respect to the 30-and-out window; we expect a tremendous amount there, and then it will obviously drop off because some of the people who otherwise would have retired the following year, you know, retire this year. If your question is with respect to sabbatical, it's going up by a very slight amount over the three years, roughly equal to the rise in salaries. It represent, however, in all of those years listed on that page as something about 60 percent of what it was three years ago, before we instituted tighter controls and the State also changed its requirements.
For the record, you can you tell us, when a teacher takes a sabbatical, is there a portion of their salary that's paid them?
There is? And 2259 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. what position is that, and how long could the sabbatical be for?
Most sabbaticals are either a half a year or a full year, and they are 50 percent in most -- nearly all circumstances are 50 percent of their salary.
When a teacher takes a sabbatical, is it to further education? Do they have to show proof that they have gone to school for --
The answer is, yes, they do. But there are other types of sabbaticals.
That's it. Now that they've changed it, yeah, there is a study and whatever, as you described it, so it's just a different --
I'll take 2260 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. that as your response. I would like to know what twilight schools are remedial discipline schools. I know what the Able Academies are. In accommodation capacity, are we referring to detention rooms as we all once knew them?
Well, just as an example, the twilight schools are schools that are operated in late afternoons generally in trying to attract students back to schools who had dropped out.
It would be different from one school to the next, but generally, it's like from 3 to 8 rather than from 8 to 3.
I'm sorry, 3 to 8 p.m.? 2261 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.