Certified substitutes are not -- people who are certified in the area in which they're teaching are not generally given anything more than an orientation. An emergency certified substitute is given training before they're put in classrooms. 2376 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
I don't want to bring up an ugly situation that happened last year, but we were told that the substitute teacher was recently out of college and did not have any training with special ed. children.
That is possible if it were a person under an emergency certification, someone who is --
Well, with the shortage that we have, I would think that happens more frequently than not.
So, again, my question is: Are we giving substitute teachers some sort of training before they're put into special ed. classes? And if we're not, don't you think we should be.
Okay. I'd like to go back to the cluster schools for just a second. 2377 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. When did we go into cluster schools, about two years ago? Has it been about two years -- charter schools, I'm sorry.
The charters. We are in our second year now and third year coming up.
Okay. With those that have been in existence for the last two years, is it the School District's responsibility or is it the State's responsibility to take assessment as to whether they're doing well, whether they're huge successes, are they failures? Who actually makes that determination?
Well, one of the things that we required in terms of academic success is that each school use the same assessment instrument that we use so that we know apples and apples. And there are only four schools that have been in existence long enough to have taken that test. Those were the schools that were in the first year. And I think we have that data, but we haven't finished putting it all together yet. We, quite candidly, did the School District's 249 schools before we went and looked at those four 2378 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. schools.
But each year, we will be giving -- the test will be given to the charter-school kids, also.
In no instance do we even have the data that would permit us to draw comparisons yet. The baseline year for those four schools was the spring of '98. And then this spring, we'll do it the second time. So that'll be the first moment that we can do any comparisons, even on the first four. And then it will be a year from now for the next thirteen.
I noticed, I guess in the book here, that $1 million -- and it's costing us over $1 million in school books that were either lost or not returned. How does that million figure compare to what it was two years ago? I thought it was outlandish two years. Are we improving on that at all? A million is an awful lot of money, in my 2379 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. book.
I don't think we have that number here, President Verna, but we will get that. I think we're going to find that there's not much change in it. But without me speculating, let us just get you that number.
I think we should be looking at ways that we could cut that down. I don't know, I don't know that any other school would allow that to happen. A million dollars is a lot of money.
Unfortunately, every school district has that problem; it's not that they --
Well, I don't know. Maybe the school district that I was in certainly wouldn't allow it because you either brought your books in or you suffered the repercussions for it.
One of the things that you should know is that State law actually, in the end, prohibits, for example, our withholding grades or diplomas until a student returns or pays for his book. And it may be the case, 'cause many 2380 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. school districts across America do it, that whatever school district you were in did have the power to withhold grades or to withhold a diploma.
Well, if that's the State law, well then maybe they should give us the million dollars if they treat it so lightly.
When will Bartram High School receive their walk-through metal detectors? I understand it will be shortly, but I don't know what "shortly" really means.
Madam President, John McLees. "Shortly" is the answer. The equipment is ordered. We're hoping within three weeks, at the most, that the equipment will be in and then will be in Bartram and up and running, almost overnight.
Thank you very much. 2381 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Let me put at least one thing on the record based on the earlier discussion, and I think I must have missed part of it when Councilwoman Miller had raised it. But with regard to the officers at schools, I seem to recall that sometime last year, this was an issue that I had dealt with, with regard, I believe, to the 39th District and some parents -- possibly even some school personnel -- had contacted me about officers being reassigned away from the school. I weighed in in that particular case on the side of the parents and the school, given some of the situations that had happened in previous year, and I really didn't see anything wrong with police officers, who are sworn to serve everyone in the city, whose parents pay all of our various salaries, and with regard to City personnel, a hundred percent of their salary, as contrasted to 2382 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. School District personnel. And I believe that those officers, whether out on patrol in cars or on foot, serve a larger purpose, not only for the safety of the school-aged children but also the older adult police station that lives in the community. So I mean, I'm not exactly sure what the big issue was at the time. I think captains or lieutenants or sergeants or anybody else in a paramilitary organization understands that things roll down, decisions are made, perspectives are taken into consideration, and then you do what you are told to do. And so if the citizens of this city, whether school-aged children or adults, request service from Philadelphia police officers, we expect that we will get it. So I think if there are particular situations where there are personnel shortages or problems, if we can get any information on those or more specific cases brought to light, I'd be, you know, interested in hearing about them, but that issue was not raised when the Police Commissioner was here. Let me talk about a couple of things 2383 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. that were still on my list. Superintendent, what in your view has been the impact of the elimination of the truancy officers? I seem to recall maybe two, three, maybe four budgets ago. I think at that time, there were 43 truancy officers, and whatever budget year that was, maybe 42 of them were eliminated. Do we have any data to compare what the truancy rate was during those years as compared to post-elimination of truancy officer years?
Well, let me say that it was more than five budgets ago because this is my fifth budget, and it was done before I became superintendent. And we may be able to dig out that data. I do know that in these last three years, in our comparative, that student attendance has improved and --
Maybe some of the kids weren't coming to school because of the truancy officers. (Laughter.)
Well, I think it was, 2384 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. instead, that their initiatives --
I mean, it's 3:35 in the afternoon, I haven't been funny in two hours. (Laughter.)
I think that what we've found is that many times, there are other kinds of initiatives that work better with dealing with truancy than people who are assigned specifically to those duties.
And we had a discussion some hours ago about the absentee rate. We talked about a 95 percent present rate by students and whatever those numbers were at that time. I assume, though, that there is in the District's calculations a difference between what someone might consider to be an absentee rate versus a truancy rate based on the notion that everyone who is absent is not necessarily true; is that correct.
That's correct. We at least in shorthand ways, we sometimes refer to the fact that there are roughly 30,000 a kids that are 2385 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. absent.
Okay. And based on 10 the earlier discussion, I think we had already 11 figured out that maybe 10,000 of them could 12 actually be high-school students? 13
Gotcha, okay. If you do have any comparative data between what was going on at the time of truancy officers, what's happened in the post years, that would be helpful. What, if any, data do we have on the 2386 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. number of graduating students, 12th-grade graduating students who go on to get employment opportunities here in Philadelphia?
It's fairly murky because it is relatively difficult to track kids even into college.
Once a kid graduates from high school, his interest in responding to surveys drops off significantly.
And that's also true even more so with youngsters who go to work. Whether Mary Jane Clancy, in Education for Employment, has numbers that are worth anything in that regard or not, we will ask to see.
I primarily ask because, again, I seem to recall a couple years ago, there was some pronouncement, I think, from the Philadelphia business community, Philadelphia employers, about an effort to step up their efforts and almost, I guess provide, an incentive, 2387 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. if you will, for students staying in school, graduating, and then, I mean, a little bit of a promise at the end of that rainbow, whether your rainbow is when you come out of 12th grade or if you go on to college, maybe coming back, that we would try to provide some kind of employment opportunities for our homegrown people.
We in the PIC and some of the members of Philadelphia's corporate community have been trying to figure out a way to legally use the high school transcript as a part of a passport to give a greater level of access to employment. It's got some problems associated with it from a legal point of view, going back to a time that people erected false criteria for employment to keep people out of jobs. And how to use it in a positive way rather than a negative way is something that we're struggling with. But the idea is to be able to say to kids, If you work hard and if you get your diploma and if you do well in your courses, then you get something for that -- which is called a job, or which is called entry into higher education. 2388 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. And so we're working actively on that.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you, Madam President. Superintendent Hornbeck, I want to follow up on a charter school question. And that is, what has the District's general approach been to charter schools? And is there going to be a maximum? Do you support 'em? Do you not support them? I know you vote for them. And if they're impacting the budget, then one would wonder how many is the School District going to actually approve.
Well, the concept of the charter school is one that the Board and I very much support. And what I mean by "the concept" is a school that has clearly defined outcome standards and maximum flexibility to achieve those 2389 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. standards without the constraints that come from either local or State law and regulation or contractual restraints or impediments. So that in concept, it makes a lot of sense. It is the implementation of it that causes a lot of challenges. There's a huge amount of time and energy and financial resources that -- never mind the $40 million, I'll get to that in a minute. But our senior staff at the District have spent a very large amount of time analyzing the budgets, the programs, the curriculum, the staffing, the Board composition, the physical facilities, the whole nine yards, to try to determine whether, in fact, a particular charter ought to be approved in the first instance. And every week, month, year that passes, the amount of time that's devoted to that increases more, basically without any increase in -- I mean, people have just added this to their previous duties. We have, as we testified earlier, now approved a total of charter schools in the 25 District, and those are at direct response of the 2390 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. School Board. As I said earlier, there is a State Appeal Board that is going into place now. And for all I know, they may approve a whole bunch more in the course of it. And the net cost to the District will be, as I say, next year, $40 million. The fact is, I realized the other day that the net increase for '99-2000 for charter schools is $27 million, roughly. And that makes, you know, that's a whole lot more than the reduced class size initiative, it's a lot more than kindergarten, it's a lot more than the bilingual -- I mean, it's a huge apt of money into something around which there's no evidence that, in fact, kids will be able to read and do math and do science better. We have approved it because the State law says, We shall have charter schools and school boards should approve charter schools that meet these kinds of criteria. And if you don't approve 'em, then we'll approve 'em. And so the Board has, I think, done an outstanding job of trying to be responsible in its examination of charter schools, despite the fact 2391 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. that every single time there's an approval given, it's another million dollars out the door or more -- about a million and a half.
Will they also be a part of this accountability system?
They'll have to take the same tests, and we will be able to report on their performance, but they will not be subject to the review and the supports and the reconstitution that our own schools would be subject to. The place where accountability for them would kick in is at the end of their charter, they are chartered for five years? -- four years, they're chartered for four years. And so at the end of the four years, one of the things that would be taken into account is their performance, as the Board looks to see whether they should be -- their charter should be extended or not. And, you know, if we had four years of data saying they were doing a lousy job with kids, then my expectation would be that the Board would take that very seriously into consideration in 2392 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. whether or not to extend the charter.
Okay. Hold up, I have another question that I want to ask, Councilwoman Verna.
Do you have an agenda for tomorrow on who's going to be presenting? Because some of my questions, I can hold off on till tomorrow.
We have no further presentations to make. We are at Council's disposal for the balance of whatever time you want to spend.
Okay. 'Cause I think I remember that last year pretty much went like today, but I think the next day you had cluster leaders and so on and so forth here.
Well, we made a decision this year to forego some of the presentations that some members of Council actually asked us to forego some of the opportunity that we gave you last year. And so we did.
Okay. Well, how many computers do you have? You have 213 (sic) 2393 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. students in the Philadelphia school system?
And we have 1 for every 10 kids. So 10 into is 213,000 is 21,300, so we've got a little over 20,000 computers.
Thank you, okay. And I also have a question regarding teacher training. When you decide to implement -- or whether you've done it or not -- to implement other ways to attract teachers here to Philadelphia, will you have training that includes training of new teachers around the issues of working with urban youth?
The answer to that is yes at number of different levels -- not limited, I might say, to new teachers. But one of the reasons that we've increased the number of student-teacher, young people in their senior year in college in our schools, is that that gives them and us an opportunity to look at each other and, in a sense, see what you're buying. It gives them that kind of an opportunity and that sort of exposure. We also have been working with a Council of Deans of Colleges of Education from 2394 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. around Pennsylvania where part of the effort is to get their classes to be more sensitive to or alert to the kind of special opportunities and special challenges that exist in an urban setting. We also have been trying to, not just for new teachers but for all teachers, to provide them with additional support in terms of curriculum and instructional strategies. For example, in one of your packets, there's a little compact disk in which we have taken the standards and the benchmarks the kids need to meet and curriculum and instructional strategies and alternative assessment strategies and best instructional practices for the 1st grade, the 2nd grade, the 3rd grade, the 4th grade, 5th grade, etc., up to the 12th grade, and put them on that (holding up computer diskette). So that a teacher can now take this compact disk and stick it in the computer, and it's a tremendous contribution to the ability to build lesson plans and to know what to teach tomorrow and how that ties back to the standard. In addition, we have expanded hugely the professional development generally. In some 2395 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. ways, the most important curriculum piece of that is something we refer to as the "Content Institutes," which are a week or more, and they happen during the fall and they happen during the summer. For example, in the summer, in the summer of '96, we had 900 teachers and principals participate in that. In the summer of '97, we had 1700 participate in it. And this past summer, we had 5300 participate. So both the quality and quantity of helping teachers know how to both put the special needs of the child together with the level of achievement the child needs to reach together.
Okay. That sounds really good. I have another question just around accountability. In your mentoring program, would you say that your student teachers right now are like in the mentoring phase? And hopefully they'll come into the Philadelphia public school system. But if it's a new student, a new college graduate, prior to getting employed on a permanent basis, don't you think it would be wise to have a prementoring phase so they can partner up with 2396 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. another teacher before you bring 'em on full-time?
The teachers who are newly hired, whom we know who they are by, I believe, it's August, do have a training period during August that they come to. Now, if they come after September, they obviously don't get the pre-thing (sic), but they do get a mentor, an experienced teacher who is assigned to each one to give them support and to help them transition into the school and so on. In fact, it's a State requirement that that happens.
Okay, one other thing. I observed in an elementary school once that I think the teacher felt the students were holding her hostage because, certainly, the children -- some of the children understand this whole new accountability system. And this was maybe in the first year that that program was implemented. Has -- to me, the teacher was really nervous, she was upset. And has that kind of relaxed? Have people gotten used to the fact that there are rewards and penalties and the whole bit 2397 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. as it's related to a teacher's accountability and performance?
Well, I won't say that it's gone away because there remains, no doubt, some anxiety. Anytime that any of us in any of our jobs is accountable with rewards and penalties, there's some anxiety there. But I do think that it's a good deal more constructive today than it was three years ago. There was a -- I think in some quarters, a sort of a sense of a guillotine hanging over somebody's head. And what I think people have begun to discover is that people get help when they're having trouble. We've started even things like the Peer Intervention Program and Partnership with the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers, where there are teachers who are not doing well, with whom we work in order to help them do better. And so I don't think -- I think that people are slowly beginning to understand that this is not about punishing people, and it's certainly not about punishing them in the first instance. It is, instead, about defining clearly what it is our kids ought to know and be able to 2398 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. do, and then providing folks with the kinds of resources that help them get there. And they also have discovered that if a school team will continue to work aggressively at trying to improve, that there will not be an individual penalty of any kind that comes down the pike. The only time that people face any threat of broad-based penalty as a consequence of this is if, in fact, there is strong evidence that they just don't care anymore and that they're not going to try to improve the situation in the school. And in those instances, they will discover that they really are -- there really is not just a threat, but a real live possibility that there may be penalties that come.
Okay. Thank you. I don't have any more questions, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, 2399 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Madam President. I only have a couple more questions -- one being the Truancy Court and also this new system that Commissioner Timoney helped to come up with. How is it being received by the parents? Are there any problems, or how is it being received by the community?
Well, we've had, for example, with the pickups, there's 7,000 students that have been picked up. And there have been, to my knowledge, only two things that have come to my attention that have provoked grave concern, and in both instances, they are legitimate concerns. One instance was a young man who went to a doctor and he didn't have any indication of that, so the police picked him up, and the parent was irate that this good kid should have been picked up. And so it led us all to reiterate that kids going out on legitimate things ought to have identification of one kind or another. But out of 7,000, there have been 4 kids what have provoked, you know, a bad response. And we've gotten 7,000 kids back into school. So it's a small cost for, I think, a big 2400 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. gain.
In terms of the books issue, textbooks issue, I understand, or I read in here that there's a big decrease from September of '98 until present with hotline calls. In fact, your notes say here they received only 8 calls, which is -- and the year before, from 9 January to June, they received 272 calls. 10 Is everything else still in place? I 11 mean, is the hotline as operational as before? 12 Are there brochures and information out to the 13 same degree as the year before? 14
Well, I guess, in one 15 sense, we haven't had further news conferences, 16 although, I guess, actually, there was a big story at books not long ago, in which context we reiterated that. But I'm just happy to say that over the course of this year, we've just seen on every front a marked decline in the number of reports. That's not to say it's gone away by any means, and I had a group of students meet with me about three weeks ago from a particular high school who said, We've got book problems. And so said to 'em, Go 2401 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. tell me which class and which books, and you will no longer have book problems. And what I'm anxious to see is what they come back with because it's pretty easy, against the backdrop of the history of the School District, to say, We've got book problems. I find that when I ask people for specifics, that the specifics fall off significantly then.
Yes, I know. We still get complaints about books. So I wondered if it was maybe not getting as much attention and advertising as it did when the program started.
Well, I hope that anytime you get -- I simply need to know that it's, you know, Mrs. Jones' class at West Philadelphia High School, who teaches English, doesn't have any books. And we will -- there is no longer any financial reason that that should be the case. And let me reiterate that it's not just having the book, but the kid can take the book home for homework too. That's the policy. And any time that that is not the practice, then the 2402 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. person, the school, the teacher, or whomever, is acting against policy.
With regard to summer school, I've always regretted us cutting back on summer school, and I'm glad to see that we're continuing it in certain grades. Is it be possible for us in the future for us to earmark it for like maybe middle school and high school and or to increase it? Is there a plan to increase it as we go along?
For the last six or eight years, sometime before I got here, all summer programs were cut out except for those seniors who needed a credit or two to graduate. This year, in the summer, we will offer programs for 3rd-graders 7th-graders, 9th-graders, and 11th- graders in addition to the 12th-graders. And we do that in those particular grades because in '99-2000, we will be beginning to eliminate social promotion, and what we want to do is to try to identify those kids who might otherwise fail, and give them help before they fail. Now, the Fair Opportunities to Learn 2403 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. standards that are in your materials, and to which I have referred several times, does provide -- and it's that $300 million to which the President referred a little while ago, it does provide summer school for kindergarten through the 12th grade, because we have to do it for everybody.
So we will have it when we make -- is that the Year 2000 that we do that?
It is projected now for the -- it would be for the summer of 2000.
Now we have to have a breakthrough with Harrisburg for that to happen. But that's the planned moment when that piece is to move into place.
Yeah, because I think it would be important for us to have summer school for those kids. Otherwise, we may have a problem with classes being overcrowded. We could have another kind of a problem that took us here in the first place.
Madam 2404 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. President, I think that's it for me for today.
Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions at this time.)
So the committee will stand recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow. It may be a short day tomorrow; however, on Wednesday, I do believe we have a number of people who have called that do want to testify. So on Wednesday, we will start our public hearing at 3 o'clock. (Adjourned at 3:50 p.m.) - - - 2405 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Monday, March 1, 1999, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE BUDGET HEARINGS BILL NO. 990026, 990027, 990028 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter