How long ago was the HUD meeting? 1272 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
Did they give you in writing the reasons why? They just didn't want to do it or --
They stated that there was a legal contract -- and I don't want to be quoted verbatim, but there's a contractual restriction to their seizing the rents and sending them to us.
And that was prior to Mr. Greene's arrival here, or was it while he was here and --
'Cause I'd like to revisit it with Mr. Greene. And how long has he been here, Carl?
It's HUD, it's not Philadelphia Housing. 1273 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
No, I understand, but how long -- but we've had similar situations since Mr. Greene has come here where HUD originally had said no way, no, never, and have had some success in maneuvering around them a little bit, even within their existing rules and regulations. Some of the changes that Mr. Greene put forward and were passed by the PHA Board, HUD originally had said, That's never going to happen -- and it happens. So maybe -- I mean, we ought to have it revisited again through Mr. Greene's efforts and see whether or not we can get some movement on this, 'cause for me, the whole thing --
Because we had their money in hand, and that's a powerful tool to get them to comply. And they're in this Section 8 business -- a lot of these guys who have multiple properties -- purely, as Council President said, purely for the money. It's not altruism; it's pure greed and profit. So holding their money and segregating 1274 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 some of that money into accounts where they're delinquent to me makes clear sense, and maybe we ought to revisit this with Mr. Greene and see if he can't get this in the right direction.
Commissioner, I guess it was probably Saturday morning, probably around midnight or shortly thereafter, I kept hearing a motor running, and I was rather curious, so I looked out my front window and, lo and behold, it was a Water Department truck. They were cleaning the sewers. Is this an emergency or is this a new schedule that we have, that we have people going out in the middle of the night to clean inlets? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Generally not at midnight, but I'll --
It was midnight or shortly thereafter, and they did both of both sides of the street, which I thought very strange. Mr. Roy, do you have any knowledge of 1275 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 that?
We do have night crews. They generally work on the Boulevard, 26th Street, on the way to the airport and in Center City, where they don't generally interfere with the residents. If you give me the address, I'll --
This was South Broad Street. I'm not complaining about it; I was just curious. I didn't know whether we had night crews that were working or whether it was an emergency, but I thought -- pardon me?.
Right. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: We generally keep them away from residential areas, of course, you know, but. . .
It didn't bother me; I was just rather curious to know whether it was an emergency or whether this was something that we're doing now as a normal course. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: No, it's not a normal course. We usually quit about 10 o'clock, I think it is? 1276 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
Again, in nonresidential areas and in areas such as the Boulevard, where it's not interfering with people but it reduces traffic time, so we do go through most of the night on that shift. They come in at o'clock. 7
Good. Thank 8 you. 9 The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter. 10
Thank you, Madame 11 Chair. I'm sure as a result of the investigation, we'll find that these were some incredibly industrious hard-working City employees, and they'll be in here in a month getting a citation for cleaning inlets in the middle of the night. (Laughter.)
Commissioner, as a follow-up to Councilwoman Miller's query to you, and I can only say this because I've been well trained by the Water Department, I shared with her that given -- I think she said 11 situations, possibly all on the same side of the street, they also sound like one of our infamous failures of 1277 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 laterals going on down the black. I mentioned to her my experience with that, and she may be following up with you on that particular issue as well. I don't know whether any robots or any of those pieces of equipment have been used to deal with her situation or not, but we've been through that one a couple times as well. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: We will look into this particular one, mm-hmm.
Okay. I primarily wanted to, one, extend some level of appreciation and praise to the Department. You and primarily Dick Roy have worked with me over the years. We've had some exciting situations from time to time. And I think the tail-end of last year, a rash of water main breaks. I wanted to first commend you and the Department and the men and women who are out on the scene for their immediate response to those situations, trying to contain the water, get the valves shut down, some of which, you know, take 150-some-plus turns to get turned off, but also the coordination with Risk Management, which at 1278 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 times, has almost been out on the scene as quickly as the Water Department personnel, knowing that with hundreds of thousands of gallons of water flowing out there, that there's going to be some immediate impact on residential communities. And so I think that level of coordination, which has evolved over the past few years, has given me a greater comfort level when we have these unfortunate incidents, whether, you know, it's just age, or the most recent one, a contractor accident slicing through a water main, whatever the case may be, we've got an excellent response, and I appreciate it. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Thank you very much for your comments, I appreciate that.
Thank you. And your people out on the scene give good information, they're clear about what's going on. If they say something's going to happen at a certain time, it usually happens almost right on the hour. And I really do appreciate it. We've had some pretty bad ones out there. I did want to ask from a coordination standpoint, and I was actually talking with a 1279 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 constituent about this particular issue today, when we have that kind of activity -- whether it's an emergency or we're just out as a part of our renewal infrastructure program -- what is the level of coordination with other utilities, whether it's the gas company or at times maybe PECO or anybody else that has anything in the ground? If we're opening up the street, whether because of emergency or just a regular contract, what level of coordination takes place that might allow someone else to upgrade their infrastructure if entire street is open? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: There is very, very close coordination. In fact, even at the preliminary design stage, when they're going to be replacing either a water main or a sewer or both, we contact those utilities -- PECO, PGW and others -- to see whether they have any plans -- and the Streets Department also, of course.
Right. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: We contact them to see what kind of plans they have, and we coordinate that to see at what point in their 1280 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 capital program they are going to be replacing, and then go over the most optimum time that all of us can get in there. But in a lot of cases, we have to go in very quickly if the main has broken for two or three times or a short period of time, we expedite that program and get PGW involved immediately, and they've always cooperated with us, as has PECO and Bell Telephone and the Streets Department.
So sometimes, even if they weren't planning so much to be in there the next couple months, as we are, because of either some emergency or it's just our time to be in that street, sometimes they will change their schedules? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: That is correct.
So that everybody's in the street at the time and just try to kind of get it over with? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: That is correct, yes. They modify their schedules to accommodate us.
All right. You have 1281 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 in the past -- the most recent being the -- and I don't want to talk about this but by way of example -- the cross-lateral situation in different parts of the City, you have come upon these problems, have given us a briefing, the maps, detailed the level and extent of the problem. And in some cases, either on your own or after we pounded you on the ground and forced you to change things, you've come up with solutions to those problems. I've run into this situation now a few times, and I'd like to get I think a little better handle on what is the scope of this particular issue. It's the private street matter and whether it's a private street in conjunction then with private water service, private sewer. I don't know, do people actually -- do they also have private mains or do they just have private water service? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: They do have private mains also in some instances on private streets.
If you are able, and I don't know how you do the research on this, 1282 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 but I'd like to get a better sense of what is the size of the private street issue throughout the City of Philadelphia. And I don't know if you're able to give a listing or a map, but do you have a sense of what that is presently? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Generally, they are not on the City Plan at all, so it's very difficult. We do have maps and whatnot, which identify streets. And occasionally, you know, we would have to go out and look at the street and then compare it with the City Plan that exists. And if it's not on the Plan, then it's assumed it's private, and we work with the Streets Department to identify those. We do not have a comprehensive list of those private streets. I think we have a good handle on that, but we would not, you know, we would not be able to ascertain that a hundred percent of these are the only ones that are there. I was just told by Susan Lior, who is our Deputy Water Commission for Information, Science and Technology that with our geographic information system, we're going to be entering all of that information -- primarily, of course, on 1283 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 the City Plan, but we will also incorporate within our database the private streets and mark them. Again, as I said, they may have very well not be (unintelligible) so it may take some time to identify all of those streets that are in existence.
Well, whatever you can do in that regard, I would greatly appreciate it, even if it is preliminary or sketchy information. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Right, okay.
You and I and other members of your department have worked on the issue of septic tanks and, I mean, whether we have an official policy or not, you know that my policy is, wherever we find that particular issue going on, if there's a way to get rid of them and get people on the municipal water system, for instance, let's try to bring as many of people as possible, you know, we may have missed them for the 20th century, but let's try to at least bring them into the 21st. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Right.
I'm increasingly 1284 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 concerned about the private street/private sewer/ private system situation. In most cases, there is no way in the world that the people living on the street, on their own are, in a position to get the street up to City code for the Streets Department to be able to take it. They're not in a position to change the plumbing or the infrastructure to get it up to what your standards are. And when they fail, it's a problem. You are probably ware that I'm dealing with one of those -- actually, a couple of them right now. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Right.
One that you and I have directly talked about and one you're getting ready to hear about if you haven't already. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Okay.
So it's just going to continue to happen, and I'd like to get a better sense of what the enormity of the task is, knowing that we're not going to solve it overnight, but I'd like to try to come up with a game plan to work on it. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Okay, we'll work on it, but I'd like to assure you that, going 1285 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 forward, we worked with the Planning Commission to have an agreement that there should not be any more private sewers and private water mains anyplace else in the City, whereas years down the road, people forget about it and they don't understand why a water main that's going on a street, whether private or otherwise, is their responsibility.
Sure. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: So from now on, we will not allow that to occur.
Okay. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Madame Chair.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
I don't really have a question; I just want to, for the record, since this discussion was a major part of the record, maybe a year or two years ago, I think I understand there's some resolution to Penfield Street. Does anybody know about Penfield Street? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: That's a 1286 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 specific -- we'll look into that and see where you are on that issue and get back to you.
Okay. But I thought I had gotten some word from your staff and the Streets Department that there was going to be some major work done over there. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: I'll check into that.
Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee? (No further questions at this time.)
Thank you very much. And, again, Commissioner, thank you and your staff for doing such a fabulous job. We really appreciate it. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Thank you, President Verna. Thanks very much .
Thank you. The next department to testify is the Department of Licenses and Inspections. (Department of Licenses and Inspections 1287 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 panel members come forward.)
Good afternoon. I'm sorry you were waiting; we are running a little behind schedule. Thank you for your patience. Commissioner, please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Thank you, Council President Verna. And good afternoon. My name is Frances Egan -- that's Frances with an E -- and I am the Commissioner of the Department of Licenses and Inspections. I have accompanying with me a smattering of my senior staff to assist me. Council President Verna, could I make my remarks now, or do you --
Yes, would you please. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Thank you.
We do have copies of your testimony, so if you would like to abbreviate, we will make certain that the stenographer has a copy of your completed testimony, which will be made a part of the 1288 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 record. COMMISSIONER EGAN: I would like just to take a few minutes to highlight some of the Department activities. Overall, the budget for L&I is just a slight increase over last year, for a total of $31,556,518, and that increase is for negotiated salary increases. Our staffing of 458 will remain the same. I also want to note that the number of permits and revenues continue to rise over projected goals, and that this is mainly due to building construction projects in the City of Philadelphia, mostly for renovations and rehabs. I think that everyone here would agree, including members of City Council and their staffs, that the most important functions performed by L&I are those that involve life safety. And to highlight a couple of those, mainly for your interest is, we have a program called R2, which I talked about, I think, in last year's testimony. R2 is a code name for multifamily dwelling. And this is run by our Housing 1289 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 Division, which is headed up by our chief there, Al Davis. There was an unfortunate fire about two years at 42nd and Lancaster, which resulted in some deaths. And due to that, the manager and supervisors and employees of that division began to think about what they could do more proactively to prevent such another tragedy from occurring, and we initiated this program. And all it is, is we go out census tract by census tract throughout the City, we identify from our systems apartment complexes in those census tracts, and we proactively inspect those apartment buildings. So we're identifying problems that need to be corrected prior to perhaps a tragedy occurring. In addition to that, the Housing Division, under the leadership of Al Davis, developed what we call a "Troubled Property Unit" within the Housing Division. That's kind of a funny name-- I'd like to us kind of come up with a better name that. But referrals from the R2 inspections, if they're particularly troubled properties, which means they're of a more serious degree with code violations and problems, they're 1290 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 referred to this unit. And in this unit, the ownership of that property is researched, and it's determined whether or not other properties are owned by that same person. And then if that's determined, then those properties are inspected. And we have a great example of a success there where just a couple of weeks ago, on the 4100 block of Girard, we discovered a very dangerous, unsafe apartment building. And that building was referred to the Troubled Properties Unit. It was discovered that more properties were owned by that particular owner. We went out and inspected those, and several properties owned by this particular owner were closed, and the people living in those extremely dangerous conditions were removed from those properties -- again, possibly preventing the worst tragedy, that of loss of life of. This unit also inspects for the new Fire Code and in compliance with that code in terms of fire alarm systems. And there was a fire at 107 East Gorgus Lane at the beginning of 1998, where it was a 48-unit building. And while the 1291 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 building was destroyed, it was due to the fire alarm system that was, you know, required by the Fire Code that had been inspected by the R2 inspection programs and found to be, you know, in good working order. And it was that fire alarm that got all the residents out safely in that case. So we feel a very strong tie to the reduction in fires and fire deaths due to some of the work being done by our Housing Division and by our Commercial and Industrial Fire Division.
With demolitions, you should know, Council President Verna and all the Councilmembers, that we spent a record-high 14 million in FY '99. We'll be demolishing 1539 properties. 3 million, which accounts for the demolition of 9,754 buildings. In our Clean-and-Seal Unit, headed by our chief, Jim Grundy, and all of his fine staff and laborers, who I think, by the way, the laborers of the Clean-and-Seal Unit probably have the toughest job in Philadelphia. But they 1292 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 continue to be major contributors to the success of the Partners Program and Operation Sunrise. On encapsulation, this is money we receive -- funding we receive from the Office of Housing, for which we're very grateful. And with that money, we can identify properties in, say, neighborhoods on the brink, where, if you have a block where only one house on that block is starting to go down the tubes, and it's really basically a fairly stable neighborhood, rather than just use the normal clean-and-seal procedure, which would just be put up the plywood in open areas, we would do a more concrete-type sealing. We would make it watertight, we would put a new roof if necessary, we would put in knew drainage systems, and we would prevent that property from having any further deterioration and with the hope that that neighborhood being a stable neighborhood, it would be a neighborhood in a better position of eventually rehabbing that property and, therefore, preventing the neighborhood itself further sliding down the road of deterioration. Now, we've only done 34 so far, but I 1293 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 wanted to mention it to Council and highlight it because we're looking for those type of candidates; we're looking for properties that fit that description of one property on a block, say, that you see could bring the rest of the block down if it's not in some way corrected immediately. I also just want to mention our parking garage survey. I go back and forth between wanting to bring this up and not wanting to bring this up because it brings back a bad memory for us, and that was the incident at Broad and Pine, where the sign fell and caused the death of one of our beloved judges of the City. But after that horrible incident, in addition to taking the Rappaport estate to court and finally getting them to comply with all the code violations of their properties, we have a District Operations Manager, Mike Mainor, who took it upon himself to get all of his inspectors in the district offices to, again, proactively go out and inspect all of the parking garages in Center City. And as a result of that survey that was done by our building inspectors, we actually did 1294 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 close two parking garages that were in imminently dangerous conditions until the necessary repairs were made. And there were other garages 5 identified in need of repair, and they are now at, 6 you know, at some point in making those repairs. 7 So it's those type of life safety 8 functions that we're most proud of and that we 9 work at all the time to improve in our operations. 10 One of our goals for the next budget 11 year is to look for and to implement more 12 programmed inspections which I rather would call 13 proactive inspections. We do a lot of them -- it 14 is the R2, it was the parking survey, we do the 15 clubs, we do like, you know, high-volume type 16 places, and we're looking to do more of them as 17 this next year unfolds. 18 The other area I'd like to highlight as 19 real important as a goal for this department is 20 under the leadership of Deputy Commissioner Oliver 21 Thornton, who now heads up our information 22 technology needs for the Department. We've just done so much -- we're getting there but we're not really where we want to be yet. But it all started with a needs 1295 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 assessment done with the help of Drexel University.
We've made considerable effort in the area of upgrading our in-house databases, and we put a considerable effort into making an application for a loan from the Productivity Bank, and it's all of these things, which we believe, over what we hope to be a short amount of time and not a longer period of time, to dramatically improve the way we deliver service to the citizens of Philadelphia and to effect the really kind of fundamental change that makes a difference for the long term in our department. With that, Council President Verna, I'd be happy to answer any questions. And I would just like to mention you at this time, to save you time at the end of the questions, we could briefly go through the board testimony, which would just take like a minute or two rather than us leave and come back, but that certainly is up to you. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.
Good afternoon, Commissioner Egan. 1296 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 First, let me express my -- let me commiserate with you in the sense of anguish that you must feel having to sit at that witness table with those five guys around you. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER EGAN: I appreciate your sympathy.
I'll have to talk to the Mayor about a salary increase or something for you. I just can't imagine what it must be like to have to sit there with those five. (Laughter.)
You started your testimony, and I was out of my chair for a second, but I heard you make reference to, I thought, a fire and something to do with Lancaster Avenue, but I missed the location. What was that location? COMMISSIONER EGAN: The second one, you mean? 41st and Girard. (L&I Department member corrects Commissioner Egan.) COMMISSIONER EGAN: Oh, 42nd and Lancaster was the first one I mentioned. 1297 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
42nd and Lancaster, okay. 42nd and Lancaster, and then 41st and Girard, okay. I heard the "Lancaster," but wasn't clear on the street address. The first is -- actually, most of the folks up there I do know and I tease all the time. They're good people, and I seem to know their nurse by heart. Maybe I missed this. Could you get us an updated directory for L&I? I don't know if one was sent over or maybe I misplaced mine, but since your move, has something come over? COMMISSIONER EGAN: You know, I'm not sure. I thought that it had, but I'll make sure that you get the updated copy of all our numbers.
Okay, I appreciate that. I wouldn't want any of my friends to think that I was not calling them because I didn't care about them anymore. On the clean-and-seal testimony, you talked about cleaning and sealing buildings and then the vacant lots that were cleaned. In budget testimony, I believe, at the tail-end of last week, the Managing Director was here and there was 1298 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 discussion about vacant lots, fencing, Jersey barriers, and all of that, and there was a fair amount of discussion about the fence program. Can you give us any update on what goes on post-demolition? And from L&I's perspective, are fencing contracts usually a part of the demolition contract, or is that more of a hit-or-miss situation at this point? COMMISSIONER EGAN: No, they are not usually a part of the demolition project. There's some unusual demolitions, maybe like a larger commercial site where we might fence, and even that's not done all the time. So not as a practice, no. 16
Okay. 'Cause I think the testimony was last week was that possibly in the past, prior to your tenure, it may have been included as a part of the demolition. And some of the discussion was that from a timing and coordination standpoint, it might make some sense if that was included. I don't know whether these demolition contractors have their own fence people, or if it was a part of the contract, they would know that that would have to have that in 1299 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 place, you know, when the site was demolished and the ground was leveled, and the next couple of days, you know, a fence would go up. Do you have any perspective on that? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, I think we can appreciate it. You know, while we are -- we're always looking for ways to prevent dumping onto the lots that are cleared through a demolition and, you know, there's some new ideas being floated around now which we have to study further. But I think you can understand that to add that -- because it has been done in the past.
Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Fencing as part of the demolition contract costs, but it does increase the cost of the demolition -- which means we would take fewer dangerous buildings down. So we would just have to look at that and weigh whether or not that's the policy we would want to have. In other words, is it more important to get down the dangerous building or take less dangerous buildings down because we want provide fencing. That has been proven to be a failure in the past 1300 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 in terms of staying there, staying power. Fences don't last long.
What happens to the fences? Do people steal the fences, do they run into them? I mean, what happens to the fences? COMMISSIONER EGAN: They get stolen.
Okay. Well, one, I would not want to take any money away from demolition, so I would only want to engage in this discussion if we could figure out what the additional expense would be. And then as a part of this process, add on to what your baseline for demolition already is. But I don't want to make it a zero sum of, Well, you were doing, you know, 2000 demolitions, but now if we're going to have fences, we're only doing 500. I mean, we want you to keep doing what you're doing, figure out what the add-on is, and if it's, you know, relatively reasonable number, we would have to provide the additional funding. Could you take a look at that and try 1301 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 to figure out what -- COMMISSIONER EGAN: Sure, we can work up some numbers for you and get back to you.
Okay, great. On encapsulation on , I'm glad to see that that has now become somewhat of an official part of L&I. If I could ask, we had a, you know, a small contingent of the government out. This was not a one-vacant-house situation in the 100 block of North 62nd Street a couple of summers ago -- there were probably two or three houses on that block. This started as a firebomb situation as a result of a homicide in the premises. There were four people killed on the street in a ten-day period of time. It was a little drug dispute between neighbors. But if I could ask as maybe a first, and I think you said 37 of these have been done in the past? COMMISSIONER EGAN: 34.
34? Sorry. If I could ask that the 100 block of North 63rd Street be taken as a kind of a first stab at something in the 4th District, I'd appreciate it. 1302 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 COMMISSIONER EGAN: Councilman, that property does meet the kind of criteria we're looking at. In other words, it is a fairly stable neighborhood where there would be a chance for a rehab by a CDC or even a private owner.
More than likely by a private owner; I don't think there are any CDCs that cover that area. I think that there are probably three properties that would need treatment. There is a PHA property on the block that's next to one of the properties that needs treatment, and I've had discussions with PHA Director Greene about that particular property. Their initial response was that they didn't want to fix up their property until someone did something to the property next door. My response was, That's kind of a nonsensical response. And they're taking a look at their property. I can't sit around and wait for somebody to do something to somebody else's property while a government agency owns one of the properties, and they're not doing anything but theirs. But I think there are at three on that 1303 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 street. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Okay.
On your Seller Certification Improvement section, I think in the past, the discussion about the seller certification has been that people have to get a seller certification, but it did not -- I won't even say "necessarily" -- it actually did not mean that there had been an inspection; it meant that there were no violations against the property; is that correct? COMMISSIONER EGAN: That's correct. They're required by State law to obtain the certification.
Is that still the case? Is that still the notion of that particular program? You get a certification but it still does not mean that there's actually been an inspection? It just means, in the alternative, that there -- COMMISSIONER EGAN: It will tell you whether or not, you know, you have any outstanding violations.
Outstanding 1304 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 violations, okay. Is there a way to reverse the premise of the program that it actually means that there's been an inspection done? Not to compare jurisdictions, and theirs is much smaller than ours, but kind of across the street from us on the other side of City Avenue, if you go to sell a home in Lower Merion, their notion of a seller certificate is that the inspector actually comes out, does an inspection; and if you don't correct what needs to be corrected, you can't sell your house. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Right.
You can't get a seller certification. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, certainly, that's a concept that's been articulated by other Councilmembers and yourself and other people in the community. But I think when you look at the numbers of certifications, what then we would have to weigh is if you're issuing over 20,000 certs a year, that would be an additional 20-some-thousand inspections that would have to be done by our department. And whether or not we could provide 1305 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 that kind of service and still meet the other needs and demands --
Right. It's obviously difficult to compare Philadelphia to an adjoining township. There are probably fewer houses and a smaller number of transactions and the like. But away from this. Aren't there certain situations where we rely, for instances, on the certification of individuals or entities that are in a particular certification business? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Sometimes, yeah, like, a fire alarm certification.
Fire extinguishers or a fire-alarm service. I mean, we're not -- COMMISSIONER EGAN: Some electrical certifications.
But they have to come in with a certification from a company that's in that particular business. Is that a route that might potentially be viable? COMMISSIONER EGAN: It's something that could be looked at.
All right, okay. 1306 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 I'm getting the beeper.
Councilman, could you hold any further questions so that we can have the first go-around?
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
On that same note with the seller certification, are you certifying to the seller -- you say that you're certifying that there are no liens against the property. COMMISSIONER EGAN: No. 15
What did you say? COMMISSIONER EGAN: No code violations.
Code violations, okay, all right. And is that clear on the certification that's given to the seller, to be used at the time of settlement? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yes.
Okay. So they understand that's specifically for that purpose, no code violation. How long has that policy been 1307 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 in practice? Has the Department always done this? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Since the late '50's.
Okay. So I'm just going to ask you one little tricky question. If that was the case, then I wonder why so many certifications were given for the Logan sinking home area 'cause clearly, they could have been seeing some code violations with the deterioration -- they should have been able to see code violations at that time. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, keep in mind that there is no inspection involved in the issuance of the seller certification. So in other words, for there to be violations to appear on a certification requested, an inspection would have had to have been done at some other point in time prior to that, which then --
So you issue a seller certificate, that there are no code violations without an inspection? COMMISSIONER EGAN: No, that's not exactly it. In other words, if an inspection had 1308 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 been done at that property prior to the request for the seller certificate, for some other reason unrelated to the sale of the house. In other words, if you own a property -- say, you own an apartment building and someone complains to L&I about that building, so we go out and do and inspection, we respond to the complaint. And if violations are written, then they're in the system. And if you go to sell that property and have not corrected those violations, then that would appear at that time on the seller certification, but the inspection is not done as a result of the sale of the property.
So you're saying your certification says that you have not been notified of any code violations. COMMISSIONER EGAN: We're letting the seller know that code violations exist on that property.
No, you can't say that. None has been reported because you can't say for sure whether there are code violations because you haven't inspected the property. What 1309 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 you're saying to the seller is that you haven't been notified of any code violations, there are none reported. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Oh, right, right. No, I'm sorry, I misunderstood you. Yeah, that's right. There could be violations. You're saying that if you get a --
There could be violations on a house and you issued to the seller that there are no code violations. That buyer goes to buy the house and the house has all kinds of code violations once they try to do something, or something happens and they have to go out and be inspected. So it's confusing. COMMISSIONER EGAN: That is possible, the scenario you just gave.
You see, that is very confusing because -- COMMISSIONER EGAN: Which is why, you know, we encourage people to, on their own, have the house inspected by --
Well, are you all clear in the message that you're sending? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Absolutely. 1310 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
What is it? What is the message? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, I don't have one in front of me, but it state on the certification itself that -- Bob, do you want to answer that? (Robert Solvibile comes forward.)
Bob Solvibile, Deputy Commissioner, Licenses and Inspections. It states on the certification that this does not necessarily mean an inspection was made, just that L&I does not have any violations against the property.
So let the buyer beware. I have a couple questions here, Councilwoman. I'd like to ask those because I do have to go to a 5:30 meeting.
I have what? 1311 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
Why do we get timed over here? They don't get timed over there.
They were not timed. I have a lot of questions. Let me ask you this one. What is the procedure for cease operations and the time period? We have stop and go where, a cease-and-desist has been ordered, and there is no enforcement. How do we get enforcement, and who is notified to tell them to cease and desist? COMMISSIONER EGAN: What is the type of property?
Operating illegally. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, cease orders issued by the Department of L&I can be enforced by our department, obviously, but also by the Police 1312 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 Department, and copies of those cease orders are given to the police districts after we issue them.
Okay. So what happens when nobody enforces them? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, in other words, if it's not being enforced -- first of all, we should be called, if like the neighbors see that it's in operation again. In other words, I'm leg you know that the police district can be called to enforce that cease.
Well, tell us they don't know anything about it. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, we've been working to better educate the Police Department and their supervisory staff about their ability to enforce ceases, and we've made some progress there through the help of Commissioner Timoney. So we're getting closer to more police captains and supervisors throughout the district being aware of that.
So if we call your department, and I call you about this business in my department -- in my district and ask you to check it out, do you send of member of your 1313 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 staff? And what is your follow-up with the Police Department? COMMISSIONER EGAN: I'll let Deputy Commissioner Ed McLaughlin answer that one. (Deputy Commissioner Edward McLaughlin comes forward.)
Councilwoman, it's L&I's responsibility to post the cease. A violation of the cease is a criminal violation, so it has to be the police who respond to that location and who arrest whoever violates the cease. If we cease a building, that means nobody can go inside that building. And if they do, the police can arrest them. All that L&I can do, responding to that location, is call the police.
So it's the Police Department's responsibility to enforce the cease.
And if a police officer would tell that you they don't know anything about it, you might respond to them to refer to Directive 38.
All right. 1314 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 Another question. I'm want to thank you for your encapsulation program. It did say a house on my one street that was a very nice street, and this specifically has worked very hard to do that.
Councilwoman, your time has ended. But you can come in on the second round.
Thank you, Madame Chair. Commissioner Egan, recently, I've been involved in a couple constituent requests from high-rise buildings in Center City. And could you just take a moment and explain the interaction between the Fire Department and your department? Because I have gotten faxes of letters from Fire Commissioner Hairston in reference to violations. I wonder if you'll explain the coordination, the overlap if any, of what the Fire Department's responsibilities are in code enforcements and how you work together and the 1315 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 purpose of both. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yeah, we do have a great cooperative working relationship. And the Fire Department does do a lot of inspections of buildings throughout the City of Philadelphia and make referrals to L&I for the writing of the violations that may or may not exist there. So we write the violations.
Is the fact that the Fire Department conducts these investigations just a helping hand, or they have expertise that your people don't have? That's the reason they're doing the inspections and not L&I. COMMISSIONER EGAN: That's their way of familiarizing themselves with the buildings, and they are educated in the Fire Codes so they would then make referrals to us. But our department is the legal department for issuing the violation again the property owner.
So the Fire Department just does referrals, has no enforcement authority? They can't cite fines, that's strictly something that comes to L&I, and you take over from there? 1316 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 COMMISSIONER EGAN: That's correct. Now, they do play a role in -- they the Board of Fire Safety, the Review Board. They can play a role in issuing variances to the code, you know, for violations that were issued against a property owner.
And you're satisfied with that relationship as it exists today? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Oh, sure.
That they do that and refer things to you? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yes.
I've noticed that a lot of the tenant groups have to complain about what they perceive to be unsafe conditions, like exit signs that aren't lighted during power failures, smoke detectors that don't detect smoke if there's a power interruption. Who controls that inspection process? Does the Fire Department just go out -- explain to me how a high-rise apartment complex in Center City, Philadelphia, generates an inspection, whether the Fire Department has to initiate that, L&I initiates it. 1317 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, it could be initiated both ways. In other words, we could get a referral from the Fire Department or we could receive a complaint, you know, through the -- just a phone complaint from a tenant, which would generate an inspection by an L&I employee.
No complaint, let's say that there's no complaint and I live in a high-rise. When should I expect a visit from L&I? The reason I'm bringing this up -- two different high-rises, the tenants feel that they would not be inspected unless they got together and sent petitions in and complained. I'd like to know what the ongoing process is to make sure that these high-rises are safe. COMMISSIONER EGAN: These are high-rises in Center City?
Right. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Okay. Bob, you want to answer that?
All residential high-rises are inspected on about a 13-month basis rotated around automatically without complaints, 1318 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 handled by the Housing Division. That's residential. There's, I believe, roughly 300 of them. The Department recently within the last several years promoted several people to a Housing Inspector III level, and they do strictly residential buildings in the City.
So every months, 10 it's safe for me to say to an occupant of a 11 high-rise residential building that a 12 representative of Licenses and Inspections will do 13 an annual inspection to do what?
Fire safety, make sure that there's a certification on the fire alarm system, that the fire alarm is certified by an outside agency, and to walk the hallways and make sure that the fire exist signs are lit and various other life-safety issues.
How about what I just described during a power interruption? The complaint -- I went to tenants' meeting on Friday evening, and they complained that their building would be unprotected in the event of a power interruption. 1319 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
Aren't I in the middle of -- can I just finish my statement? In the midst of a power interruption that there would be no smoke detection, no exit signs to guide them to exit the building.
There's some code issues regarding -- I think I know the building you're referring to. It's a two-phase electrical system that the water -- an unfortunate leak leaked down on it and it was an unusual occurrence. And the code experts have since are dealing with it -- Kevin Daly, who works for Deputy Commissioner Perri, and Al Davis, the Chief of Housing, along with the Fire Marshal to see the permanent resolve of that.
Could I get some information, please, about that please because I have to return next month to that building. 1320 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023
You're welcome. Next on the list is Mrs. Blackwell, who seems to be off the floor. Therefore, the next person will be Mr. Cohen. Mr. Cohen?
Thank you, Madame Chair. First, I wanted to congratulate your department upon --
I'm waiting for that new system. This little mike makes all that noise. I wanted to congratulate the Department upon its policy on these blocks where there's a single house that threatens the stability of the block when the rest of the block is fine. I think that program originated a number of years ago in Baltimore -- at least I heard it in connection with it, where you put on a new roof, you try to save the property. And in doing so, I think you not only save the block, you also maybe get a lot 1321 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 of additional tax money ultimately from preserving the house and strengthening the neighborhood. What is the process used? Who do we notify, say, that such a house exists? What department of L&I, what portion of L&I? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, I think you should contact Deputy Commissioner Solvibile for those requests.
All right, 'cause we have a couple on North 16th on both the and the 5600 block and the 5700 block. Each has a single property boarded up. I think one is at 5604 and 5708 on North 16th Street. Now, does that apply even though the homes are privately owned? They've been boarded up by the City.
And what do you do then? Do you seek to get the owner to do it, or do you go ahead and do it and put a lien on his property?
We write a violation against a property. If the owner doesn't comply 1322 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 with the violation, we do it and lien the property. The idea is to preserve it until John Kromer's OHCD can rehabilitate the property, give them time so that we can preserve the property so it doesn't further deteriorate.
And how much time does the homeowner get to take action?
We can write from an immediate-compliance to ten-day notice, Councilman, no longer than ten days, depending on the circumstances, whether we issue an immediate- compliance date or a ten-day compliance date.
All right. Secondly, how about relatively small apartment houses? They're really not small. I'm thinking of one at 16th and Grange. I think, Commissioner, you saw it and Deputy Commissioner Solvibile on that trip about a year ago that we took around the area. It's on the corner, it's a five-story home -- five-story-high -- I don't know how many apartments. It has 40 to 50 apartments. It's been empty now for five or six years. There have been some proposals. Everybody's deathly afraid that one of these days, 1323 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 it's going to get into such bad shape that it's going to have to come down. Is there any program the City has? COMMISSIONER EGAN: No. This funding is meant to be for residential properties.
There's no similar program on apartment houses? COMMISSIONER EGAN: No. 10
Could I suggest that that building be examined again? Because I think there ought to be a way of saving that property. COMMISSIONER EGAN: We'll take a look at it.
All right. Next, does the demolition contract that the City enters into include the removal of steps? Increasingly, there are steps -- I think we showed you some on tour but there are more where you see nothing but a pair of steps, and they're going uphill so you assume it's going in the right direction, up, rather than down to the devil, but -- COMMISSIONER EGAN: Councilman, just like, you know, we showed you our frustration in that demolition not having been completed 1324 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 properly. You know we continue to -- we just need to be notified of those type of inadequate unsatisfactory jobs, and we'll get the contractors to go out and do it the right way.
But also, Councilman, on some occasions, the steps are necessary as a means of retention if it's up high, and they form -- the removal may cause the rest of the earth surrounding it to --
But it would be much better if some other method could be used so it's not steps to nowhere or a reminder to the neighborhood that there once stood a house there. It would be nice if the lawn or, you know, some supportive device could be used. It would be part of preserving the stability of the neighborhood, you know, not to have it look so garish. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yeah, let us know those locations.
Where there once was a house but there is no longer. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Give us those locations and we'll take a look.
All right. And does 1325 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 the same thing apply -- does the demolition contract include leaving the property clean? On the 3100 block of Westmont Street, for example, a house was recently demolished. I think it's something like 3141. It's the only house on the block. It's near 32nd street. It was demolished but the place is full of rubble, the ground is full of rubble. We don't know whether it was the rubble that in the house or the rubble caused by the demolition. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Oh, certainly, you're supposed to have a clean lot left after a demolition.
All right. Well, that one isn't. COMMISSIONER EGAN: We'll check into that.
All right, if that could be looked at. And the last question to Commissioner Solvibile is, on Coulter Street, on 131, has there been a cease-and-desist ordered? That's on 131 Coulter.
There's a stop-work 1326 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 order, Councilman, for work exceeding the permit in one case; and in another case, I believe there was not a permit for the plumbing work being done in the kitchen.
We just issued a stop-work order; we did not put a cease-operations on the property.
Just to ask that, is that the kind of order that the police can enforce?
Okay, thank you, Madame Chair. I'll wait for the next round.
Thank you. Just to follow up on one of the comments that Mr. Cohen raised, when a contract is left for a property to be demolished, is the only way that you know it's done effectively is the absence of criticism and complaint? Do you not have a system where, prior to paying for the demolition, somebody inspects it? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Oh, absolutely. We inspect the site at several times during the 1327 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 demolition, and then we don't pay the contractor until there's a clean site there.
Including, in the case where he speaks of, the debris. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Mm-hmm.
And steps? So we might reasonably guess that the property where the steps are still standing, that that contractor has not yet been paid? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, it depends on whether or not the steps were needed for some kind of, you know, retention; in other words, if it was an upgraded property.
So the demolition of the steps wasn't a part of the contract. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, it depends. We'd have to look at that specific demolition contract.
But, Fran, unless leaving the steps was a part of the contract, you wouldn't pay until the steps were removed. COMMISSIONER EGAN: That's right.
Okay. And removing the debris is generally a part of the 1328 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 contract as well as a condition to leaving a clean, clear lot? COMMISSIONER EGAN: That's always a part of the contract.
In reference to the inspection process, I regularly get calls about the plastering of the party wall from the demolished house. There's apparently -- frequently, there's complaints that that work is not done well. Is that a part of the inspection to assure that the property that adjoins that demolished property, that the cement work or the stucco work is -- COMMISSIONER EGAN: It's under separate contract, but yes, we do inspect the stucco of the adjoining walls.
It's interesting and it might be something you want to mention. I've notice that many of the people that I'm getting 1329 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 calls from, after the house is demolished, their utility bills go up because that property that was once there acted as a insulating factor. And I think people need to realize that that's a possibility in the winter time.
Unfortunately, there are so many people that don't have a "snugglee," that their utility rates go up, so I assume that they're aware that that's a potential. Is any communication done with the next-door neighbor about that?. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yes. Our building inspectors in the Contractual Services Division talk to the neighbors that would be affected by that. And you should also know under Deputy Commissioner David Perri, who is a professional 1330 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 engineer now -- not now, but he has been -- in the Department, he's looking at ways to better insulate those walls that are left due to a demolition. So, you know, we're working on that.
You're thinking of everything. COMMISSIONER EGAN: We're trying.
Mrs. Blackwell, now that you're back, you are now being recognized.
Thank you. I was over there in the corner on the telephone.
At any rate, thank you, Commissioner and Bob and all of you for what you do. One short question. Can some organized groups as soon as they, say, see their building demolished, get boards from to you try to stop a building from being totally vandalized before 1331 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 they're really on a list to be sealed? Can they get some boards from you to try to board up? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yeah. We do have a community clean-and-seal program run in the Clean-and-Seal Unit, and they would just need to, you know, contact or have them contact Jim Grundy.
Thank you. Mr. Kenney, you're next. Do you wish to be recognized, or are you through?
Through before I started. I'll try to speak quickly. Relative to Councilmember Rizzo's comment on stucco, I understand that a lot of the problem is the time of the year the house is demolished, that, for example, on a day like today, stucco work could not be done because of the cold and the propensity for it to crack and then fall off unless it's done in decent weather so, especially in the wintertime, there's a long delay, which may also cause some of the utility 1332 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 increase that's experienced. But that's just a comment from my experience. The Four Seasons Spa, which should be called the "Four Seasons House of Prostitution," up on Roosevelt Boulevard in the Northeast had opened a number of months ago and had been shut down by the Police Department due to prostitution activities, had been allowed to reopen again, but the Licenses and Inspections Review Board went back in and shut them down again. The problem is that they were in Bucks County for a number of years, and Bucks County shut them down and threw them out. Is there not some way we could employ a process with businesses like this, or with businesses in general, that when they've been packed up and thrown out of some other county or state, that we don't allow them to open up in Philadelphia? I mean, the only reason they moved to Philadelphia and in the location on the far Northeast is because it was close to their client base in Bucks County where they were thrown out of. How do we, through computerization or 1333 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 other methods, correspond with other counties on their nuisance properties and nuisance business so that we can maybe stop all of this work in advance? I mean, the problem, as I understand it, is once they're open, it's difficult to cease and keep them closed. If we refuse to allow them to open based on their past practice and the fact that they've been closed in the past, is there some way we can employ some -- COMMISSIONER EGAN: Like running a check or something like that on previous businesses owned?
Or especially if businesses have the propensity to be nuisances. I mean, bars, spas, nightclubs, you know, those kinds of places that we're in there all the time dealing with this problem or problems of community complaint, just at least make some contact with the surrounding five counties at least in Pennsylvania and say, Has this corporation been in operation for? Or something that gives us some advance notice that we have a problem child on the way. 1334 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yeah, we can take a look at contacting at least the surrounding counties. In other words, even if asked the question on the application for licenses, you know, they're not going to be honest with us, in all likelihood.
But if we put the question on the license application and they lie, that may be a quicker way to pull their ticket. COMMISSIONER EGAN: That's a good point.
Because it would be falsifying the application to begin with. COMMISSIONER EGAN: So we'll look into it.
Thank you. Secondly, tow trucks. We've been licensing tow trucks for a while now and there were a number of issues that were brought up in the legislation about the type of trucks, the size of trucks. I notice trucks from time to time that look like they've basically been a pickup truck with a boom put on the back with a yellow license sticker, which I thought was not able to be done. 1335 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 That's first. Second, does each tow truck get licensed separately? Or does a company get licensed for all their tow trucks? I mean, is there an omnibus license that's given for -- and let me just finish the question, and then you can answer it. Is there an omnibus license ever issued for a fleet of two trucks? Or does each individual tow truck need to be inspected and licensed appropriately? And can those and do those companies, for example, move the licenses around from truck to truck when they have five, six, seven, ten tow trucks? And, third, we had a reciprocity amendment that was put onto the tow truck licensing tow truck bill, that in counties around Philadelphia where Philadelphia towers were not permitted to operate by virtue of a rotation system or a closed system, that those county tow trucks would not be issued licenses to operate in Philadelphia. Now, I know I see Delaware County, Montgomery County, and Bucks County towing 1336 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 operations in Philadelphia, with yellow license stickers that I know operate closed rotation tow systems in their respective counties. And how do we give our tow truck guys a fair shot?
Your first question is -- the answer to that question is that we license each tow truck, and we do that because the ordinance requires us to inspect the truck to make sure it has proper equipment on it. The second question regarding the smaller trucks with the tow rigs on them is that we actually try to find those because they're out there making contracts the same as the bigger trucks, and being licensed brings with it the protection that the ordinance invokes.
Well, I've seen those trucks with yellow City stickers.
That's what I'm saying -- we'll chase 'em down and try to get 'em licensed because --
No, I thought they weren't permitted to be licensed because of the size of the truck. I thought were minimum weight requirements and that formerly pickup trucks that 1337 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 have booms installed, which was not in the original equipment, were not permitted. If you could check that out, I would appreciate that.
And also, if I can get a list of all the licensed tows trucks currently in the City of Philadelphia for 1999 and their locations and get an idea of whether or not we're following reciprocity. Okay?
Thank you, Madame Chair. Commissioner Egan and Commissioner McLaughlin, just to pick up on the first issue mentioned by Councilman Kenney, if the Councilman would allow for an amendment to his request. I got the impression that the Department was potentially nervous about trying to check the past business practices of everyone who wants to come 1338 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 to Philadelphia, but for the specific instances that the Councilman mentioned, it sounded like we might be able to look at a more narrow group of people who generally fall under the regulated-use category. I mean, if the Councilman knows what groups he's going after, but if he's talking about the Four Seasons place or if we're talking about, you know, the wondrous pawn shop places, check-cashing places, and people who are engaged in all the go-go activity, often, unfortunately, these folks have either come from other places or from not so wondrous backgrounds. And it would seem to me that working with the Law Department, we might able to craft some additional language to the regulated-use section that allows us to ask the kind of questions that the Councilman mentioned -- whether you had a previous business location outside of Philadelphia, what happened at that location, criminal background check, and a couple of those other things -- we might save ourselves a lot of headache with that. So I would, hopefully with his agreement, amend the request to get some of that coordination and 1339 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 information. Commissioner, I wanted to go to on your testimony, the Vacant Property Survey that the Department has been working on. Could you elaborate on this project? And you indicate that in the spring of FY '99 and continuing into the first quarter of FY 2000 -- that sounds like July to September. Could you give us a little more information on what that project is doing, and talk about the level of sharing information with other City departments and agencies and what information you have presently. COMMISSIONER EGAN: What our goal is to capture on information systems, you know, that can live on past the snapshot that you would take if you just went out and did a survey and captured it on paper. It would be to do a citywide survey of all vacant property and be able to share that information with those departments that would find it most valuable -- the Fire Department, Planning Commission, you know, etc., etc., Economic Development Agency. So we would to initiate that some time 1340 2/22/99 - WHOLE COMM. - Bill No. 990023 this year and hope to but we want to do it unless we have the ability to capture it in, again, information technology in a way that can be shared not only, you know, across the department lines, but with other outside agencies.
And the goal of this project is to determine both the number of vacants and anything to do with condition? COMMISSIONER EGAN: Right.