Are they party walls?
Are they attached?
they they're um the the so the front of the building which is actually on the screen right
now okay that that is the wall that goes that straight down into the basement um the one that's
Right now, there are de-humidifiers. We are putting a ventilation system in. That's one of the things that we are going to do before we open, because we want to make sure that it doesn't get humid down there.
There is heat down there, but we are going to put a ventilation system in there, and it actually stays pretty cool down there all year round.
Thank you.
Any other further questions, Tom?
So could I have the opportunity to cross-examine?
Yes, you will.
I thank you.
Mr. Taupin, have you concluded?
Yes, we've concluded.
I think the board has a full flavor of the ministry, its uses, its zoning application, and the challenges for parking, as well as challenges for, as we recently discussed, for any additional window light.
But these are all within the, they're still safe context as far as exiting in the case of emergency at the lower level where these occupants will be.
And we feel comfortable with that particular situation.
So with that, we rest.
We want to, we look forward to any questions and dealing with the cross-examination that may come from the protestant.
Thank you.
if I may, briefly cross-examine Mr. Jenkins before putting on my case. Mr. Jenkins, my name is Josh
Horvitz. I represent the neighbor, 3965 Lancaster Avenue. If I heard your testimony correctly, you
said that your hardship that would require a variance in this case is the cry of the community.
Is that correct? It is the cry of the community. There's a lot of people that are currently on the
streets. And then there's also a lot of people are concerned that a lot of people don't have
places to go. Right. And you said, you know, you also said the hardship was to get people off the
street, or at least that's how you were going to cure this hardship. Well, the goal was to, one,
move people off the street, but also move them towards self-sufficiency. It's a two-phase thing.
It's not just get people off the street. It's move people ahead in life and to get them to a
a place of self-sufficiency, our goal was to eliminate homelessness in people's lives,
to eliminate extreme poverty in people's lives, to move them towards self-sufficiency.
Understood. So, would it be correct to say that there's no hardship of the land in this case?
Well, the hardship is that this is our religious purpose. And so, the use of what we do here
is our religious service unto Christ. And so, by creating a barrier that prevents us from carrying
out the work of Jesus Christ that we are commissioned for, it therefore creates a
hardship. It also creates a hardship is because the expectation of our contributors and those
that have put their faith in our organization are expecting us to be able to provide a place
for people to get a way out. I think that the answer then is that there's no hardship
about the land. This property is in the CMX2 zoning district. Have you taken a look at what
else is permitted in the CMX2 besides what you proposed here? I did not. Okay. Would it be safe
to say that it would be possible to use this property in some of those other ways that are
permitted under CMX2? Well, right now it's used for religious purposes. Yes. And that's what the
purpose of this property is for religious purposes. So it is being used now. And actually to clarify
that for you, is that this property has been used for religious services since 1964, which was one
year before Martin Luther King actually spoke on this corner in 1965. So it is a symbol of the
community to be able to provide services on this corner. So I think based on that testimony, the
zoning code says that in order to get a variance, that there has to be no possibility, I'm reading
directly from the code, that no possibility that the property can be used in strict conformity with
the provisions of the zoning code. So you're telling me that the property has been used in
strict conformity with the zoning code for many years. You know, I think what you're, you know,
I would object to the form of the question. I believe what Reverend Jenkins has just stated
is that the conformity of the code, that the mission of the ministry is restricted by conformity
of the code. I think he has said that several times. That is why the extension of services
to overnight is required not only because of financial hardship regarding the the donors
and lenders and those who contribute to the organization expect this service so there's a
financial hardship that he's testified to of the land financial hardship of the land i'm not sure
in handwriting on the plans that you submitted here
that were part of your exhibit package?
I did.
It looks like it says area for personal care.
You did?
And where on here does it show the bunk beds
you were talking about?
Well, we haven't purchased the bunk beds
because we don't have a zoning yet.
And so there's no way to put bunk beds in
if you don't have a zoning.
Well, I'm not sure if you've been here
in front of the board before,
but I have many times, and most people who go in front of them, they show where on the plans the
people are going to sleep. In addition to the many requirements of LNI and the zoning board,
there's more to it than that. People have to know where it's going to be. You said that
this is 1,500 square feet where you intend to house these people overnight?
just the room itself where the bunk beds are yes so um 1500 square feet that sounds to me like
about a two-bedroom apartment you're gonna put 40 people in that amount of space is that correct
max maximum of 40 people in bunk beds so you're talking about 20 beds well and then this is why
we would need to know where the beds are because how are we going to do that um especially in these
times for social distancing and that kind of thing are you uh is your organization licensed
to operate a personal care facility in pennsylvania we are licensed as a religious organization
as a personal care home you said so how this facility how this process is going to work
is that once we do get the zoning we will be contracting with an organization like
Bethesda or some other organization to be able to do the intake and assist us with that and we
will go under their license. So I think the answer is no. So you said that you're not operating a
homeless shelter. The people that you're going to have stay over, aren't they going to be
predominantly homeless? Some will be homeless. Some may be where they're down on their luck
and have been transitioning from place to place and aren't we providing them with shelter
no i'm not providing with a shelter i'm providing with the residents there's a difference
shelter is where you put somebody in the box and you leave them there
uh a residency there i yeah i you reverend with all due respect you've used the word homeless
many many times during your presentation and i think i think that just looking at what you're
doing it's admirable work don't get me wrong but uh it's i think homeless would be the right
definition for what you're doing here sure people from off the streets who don't have a home
you don't have a home they're living on the street and you're giving them a place to reside
exactly i'm very comfortable with that but to identify it as a shelter that's not what it is
I'm not going to I'm not going to debate you I just yeah I mean you know to me it's it's it's a
homeless maybe not shelter we'll call it a homeless facility call what you want but it's
taking people in your words who are down on their luck who are living on the streets and you said
that many people in the community want to see these people you know get off the streets and
have a place that where they can reside. Those are, I'm paraphrasing what you said many times
in your presentation. So I don't want to sit here for the next 10 minutes squabbling on the
on the semantics of it or terminology. You're providing a facility for people who are homeless.
Yes, sir. Yes. I just have one more quick question. And then I think,
you know, when we're done with this, I can get on to a witness or two I have.
But so you said that the occupancy of the basement level is about 100 people capacity, they said, or occupancy, according to the city.
Do you believe that means that that is for sleeping purposes, that that means that's how many people could occupy and reside down there together?
no reverend jenkins you've been very clear on on the nature of the scope that the the ministry
itself and what it should what is it what it aims to do um and if i if i hear you correctly
without the ability to have overnight stay in the in the area that we're talking about
this there is no other place within the church building where these 40 individuals
can actually be housed. Is that correct? That is correct. So this area is the only place within
the building where you can, when you can extend these services to this segment of the community.
That is correct. Our first, and to kind of go through the building just very quickly,
the top floor, the mezzanine is our office space where our, the pastor's office, the secretaries
are um and then the uh the first floor level is our worship and our dining area um and then the
bottom the bottom floor which is the basement area that we mentioned is the proposed area for
where they can be sleeping those are the only three floors in the building okay so so the
hardship of the land to take on opposing counsel's question would be that the facility lends you no
other option but this area to to extend the services as you described yes sir
and as it relates to the second zoning request um the land itself there is no land uh for which
you can develop for parking spaces on the premises to meet the code is that okay all right no further
questions there how many staff members do you have um right now we have uh seven staff members
There's about 2,100 volunteers that participate in the organization.
1,100?
We have 115 churches in the network.
Oh, in the network.
Thank you.
So the dynamic is that there's churches that participate in our program and commit to volunteer service, and they volunteer once a month at our facilities.
So over the course of a month, throughout our three locations, we have about 2,100 volunteers that come through.
of course that's been affected currently by COVID-19 but um that is the normal um volunteer level
all right we have some witnesses uh mr toppen do you have someone do you have anyone on your side
um part of what we um part of the witness what your um council sir we had a couple witnesses
that we may not need to call because the because they were witnesses that were
around the notice requirements for the RCOs.
And that would include the 24th board leader,
Bernadette Weish and Pamela Andrews.
Both of these witnesses were related
to the notice requirements where we believe
that the board has heard and understands that there's,
and there's no objection as the motion was to quash.
You won't need those two witnesses.
The other two witnesses for Chosen 300,
Alexis Thomas and Sharika Douglas,
they were adding further detail
regarding the mission of Chosen 300 and how it will deal with COVID-19 and so on.
But Reverend Jenkins was so descriptive as to the overall mission of the ministry that I think those—
I think we got it.
Yeah, they would be redundant.
We did want to have one ministry, and that's Pastor Jay Broadnecks.
If Pastor Jay Broadnecks is on this particular call, we'd like to call him because he is a near neighbor
within the affected area that can speak to outside of Reverend Jenkins
what the community sentiment is for this particular zoning application.
And if he's on the call, I would like to call him as a witness.
Pastor Ron?
And is he coming through the telephone?
I can't see all the folks that are associated with the call,
Mount Pisgah is actually the host of the West Powlton Saunders Park RCO. We host the meetings each month. And so we heard the application, the two hearings that came before the West Powlton group.
Okay. And were you in attendance, Reverend, at both of those meetings?
Yes, sir.
And can you tell us about the number of people that were at the vote that brought about a support for this application in your church?
There were approximately 36 people at that meeting.
Okay. And are these folks that are members of your ministry or folks that, were you aware of them?
did you know it was a it was a mix uh we we had uh we our church had about uh eight to ten of those
30 but uh the rest were from the community and and reverend what what is your what is your feeling
of the community's desire to have this this particular zoning application approved um what
is your feeling from being in that meeting and being and being a near neighbor yourself um uh
What I heard in the meeting, the people in the community have seen the track record that Chosen 300 Ministry has, the work and experience that they have in this particular area.
And as it was presented as an extension of what's already been being done, folks in the community are very aware of Chosen 300 Ministries and the work that they do.
and the benefit that they bring to the community.
So from what I saw, the majority of the people in the room were supportive
and were also convinced of the competence of the organization to handle this extension.
Well, that's really what we wanted to have you say on the record, Reverend.
We appreciate your time.
That's all the questions I have for Reverend Buck.
I have a question for the Reverend.
Within your ministry, do any of the other facilities within your ministry offer the same type of services?
And do any of them have the ability after dinner to have a place to sleep within those facilities?
No, sir.
At least with our ministry or others in the community, a number of us do have feeding ministries.
Frankly, many of us send our folks to Chosen 300 to learn how to do the work.
And then we come back, we have them in our church, but we do not have residency capability.
Your answer is correct.
Thank you.
Any questions from the board for the pastor?
Mr. Horvitz?
No questions.
Thank you.
Topping anyone else?
that's all the questions you're on okay okay so if I could interject here yep
that all those who are joint later on the telephone if you wish to testify
regarding this case there is a phone-in number that you could use to call in and
And that would allow you to raise your hand. And that number is 267-270-5548.
And then I would like to recognize that we have Andrew Goodman from the council's office.
Andrew, you are allowed to speak at this time. You can unmute yourself.
Andrew.