Hi, good afternoon.
Hi. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
And you'll identify yourself and who you work for?
Yes. Andrew Goodman, G-O-O-D-M-A-N, Office of Third District Council Member Jamie Gaudier, spelled G-A-U-T-H-I-E-R.
All right, so I'm here today to affirm the council member's letter of support for the proposed use variants at the chosen 300 ministries site.
As our letter reflects, we are aware that there are two letters of support from overlapping RCOs, which I'd say in some cases is an unusual show of support, especially for, you know, for use on a commercial corridor.
and we found the applicant to be very responsive to our inquiries and our communications back when
the original hearing was you know was scheduled back in March and we also want to recognize
their commitment to convening a community advisory board which we think would be a
would be a great mechanism to address any you know any challenges on the ground as well as
great mechanism to address any you know any challenges on the ground.
an opportunity for community partners and members to come together to collaborate on projects that
are of the greater good to the community going forward and so we we are we're grateful for these
steps and for that reason we support the application and you know while there we recognize
there might be some questions that get at more at the building code level but we would you know
trust the good folks at licenses and inspections when it comes to the building code process to
address those. So we affirm our support for the variants. Andrew, a question. Were you at any of
those RCO meetings? No, I was not. So we had just taken office, and I actually hadn't started at
that time. Okay. The reason I ask, I was just wondering, on the surface, the services that
are being rendered and have been obviously really great stuff I was just
wondering if you happen to know if the councilwoman is aware of some of the
questions that we raised today about housing people in the basement without
windows and ventilation and things of that nature I can understand on the
surface when you look at the application and what the good work the Revin does it
would be difficult not to support that but when you look at the physical
makeup of the building
and how these folks will be
housed overnight,
I just don't, I wonder if the councilwoman
is aware of any of that.
If you don't know,
we don't know. I mean, it's hard for you to answer.
I don't know, but again,
to me as an individual, that sounds like
a building code question, not a zoning code question.
but we have to review
that when we
hear these cases. You're absolutely
right. I don't know if at the end of
the day, if L and I would approve this, or
Fire Department, or whoever, any of
the safety agencies would approve it, but
it's... Yeah, and there's still many
steps needed before, you know, before
COs would be issued. Yeah.
Yeah. All right. Thank you, and thank you
to the Councilwoman. Mr. Chair, if I may,
you had mentioned about ventilation, and
I mentioned earlier, one of the things that we will be
doing prior to opening
a facility is to make sure that there is proper
ventilation. We're top of the line when it comes to making sure the service is provided properly.
But again, we don't know the next step, if you're even going to get approved. I don't have any
knowledge of that, but I think you're going to have a tough hill to climb to get there. But
that's just my opinion. I believe by faith. Okay. Chair, I did want to apologize. I misspoke
that a housing component was a goal to expand the ministry. So now that we have
come to this point, I'm here to offer my voice of support and shed any more light that I can
on the need for it at this time. I'll just ask you one question because I think it's been
And a bit noted just how awesome Chosen 300 has been in this space, but in your experience
of 12 years, have you had any difficulties or issues that you would bring to the board
as it relates to how the Chosen 300 sites interact with communities?
No, and I deal with community issues on a constant basis, and Chosen 300 has always
has been an advocate for the community, and particularly for the community that we serve.
And that is continuing at this moment.
Sherman, if I may, one of the things I want to add to, Dr. Wright is also the vice president
of the Baptist Ministries Conference of Philadelphia and Vicinity. So he has access
to all the pastors in the community. So he hears the voice of the community on a regular basis.
He's the president.
again i appreciate it and not to belabor the point i i don't think there's anyone that is
questioning uh the services that you provide uh the standards that you have adhered to over the
years uh you've certainly got some great folks coming in uh pastors are coming in that speak on
your behalf uh for up for me at least at the moment i have a question of of safety it's a
question for me of public safety. On the one hand, you want to provide a service for people who are
in need, for people who are less fortunate, but the last thing this board would want to do is to
put folks in a position where it may not be safe. We've had numerous cases since I've been on the
board, and obviously before that, where people wanted to build apartments, and they want to have
a basement apartment without windows, and we always question the security reason. It's not an
department it's just a dormitory yeah but people are sleeping overnight
uh well that wasn't part of our presentation uh uh mr chico just uh but i i do want to say this
and and you know clearly my client chosen three thousand chosen 300 we would love to have the
opportunity if the board i know we're not there yet but when we get there we certainly will be
asking the board opportunity to bring in the expertise as well as additional plans to show
and to demonstrate how this particular application will play out in the most safe manner. At this
point, we're sort of midstream in the hearing. So that is going to be what we will close with
when the time comes. Mr. Chair, if I may, one of the things that I mentioned earlier is that
we had already been approved for occupancy of 100 persons in the basement level but then also
I mentioned earlier there are three ways of exit and so there's an exit out the back door
into the backyard there's an exit to the front of the building out the front and there's an exit up
to the second floor out so I mean I heard that but you say you were approved for 100 occupancy
Was that overnight occupancy or is that just for daily?
No, sir. It was, it was, it was for occupancy at one point. Yeah.
It wasn't for overnight.
That's the sticky point. I mean, for us, that's, that's the issue for me,
at least anyway. I mean,
Mr. Holloman and the vice chair of Ms. Tenere raised that issue, you know,
a few minutes ago. That for me is a challenge.
So I mean,
I don't know if Mr. Toppin must hold this until you go through other
exercises or other steps along the way i don't sharon i don't know if you want to weigh in i
don't know if we can do it that way or hold pending l and i's sign off on now i don't think
that they wouldn't be able to proceed to the next step without this so we'd have to make one thing
i like to share real quickly about the building itself um this actually used to be an old bank
um and in between uh the first floor and the second floor there's six inches of wood and six
inches of concrete the walls are 32 inches thick and so the um the strength of this building um
you know is beyond safe and it's fire rated throughout the building yeah well the reverend
regroup and present additional testimony and evidence that we don't have in this particular
moment. But it appears to me that without the approval of the zoning board to explore that,
at least with the approval of the board to go forward to zoning, then we can, with the building
code and the folks at L&I, do whatever structural design modifications are needed to get to that
level, even if it means a change in the number of occupants that can be in the lower level,
in the basement but that that is i guess that that is the place where we are at as of this moment
having less we have any other uh speakers uh tanya yes chair why don't we do that and then
i'll give you my closing statement on it all right um adam perlman you are now able to unmute yourself
and speak hi um thank you mr chico thank you board um can you guys mr perlman yes we can
would you perlman would you please identify yourself name and address uh yeah adam perlman
um i'm the protestant um three nine six five lancaster avenue um i've been listening you know
for an hour and a half i just gotta swear mr adam mr perlman i will you swear do you swear
and affirmative to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes sir thank you now
you can proceed thank you okay um so i uh purchased the adjacent property 3965 lancaster avenue
um two and a half years ago to build a 10-unit building um and i i know brian and i i respect
and i appreciate the mission of the church and everything they're doing um i did spend without
going into too much detail. Six years prior to moving to Philadelphia, working in the Bronx,
New York, urban India, and urban sub-Saharan Africa, working in slum rehabilitation.
And I take this issue seriously. This is not just a religious issue. This is a human rights issue.
I don't want to come across as the developer next door that does not want a homeless shelter.
All that being said, I was made aware of the RCO meeting the day after it happened.
Gwendolyn Lewis has owned and operated the church at 4007-11 Lancaster Avenue for 40 years.
She called me.
We have grown to know each other just by building this building at 3965 Lancaster Avenue.
She has told me many times that her congregation appreciates the investment in the community
and they hope to have more investments in the community.
And she called me and explained to me what happened at the RCO meeting.
I was unaware of it.
The community was unaware of it.
She spoke in opposition and was told to leave the RCO meeting.
One other person spoke in opposition and they were told to leave the RCO meeting.
this was not a legal RCO meeting. I've been through RCOs and ZDAs before. None of this was
done correctly. And at the very least, they need to hold a legitimate RCO meeting. I know they have
the support of RCOs. They have the support of other pastors. I know that they're a responsible
organization. But this was at the very least not done correctly for RCO purposes. But moving past
that wendell and lewis who's been in this intersection for 40 years uh went around the
community talked to people about this no one no one was no one was aware of this no no please
you go please please you've been speaking for an hour and a half well let me let me speak hello
please do not interrupt i'm sorry and if you can summarize mr perlman that would be helpful
Yes, sir. Gwendolyn Lewis spoke with neighboring businesses, neighboring tenants. And if we held a legitimate RCO meeting, the actual community that is adjacent to this church would stand in opposition to this.
and after hearing about the plans to only allow 40 people in and to turn away anyone that doesn't
pass an intake process at 6 p.m. at night because they're too intoxicated to enter the establishment
or they're a recent criminal who was allowed on parole after murder where are these people
going to go and I don't want to sound insensitive but you can't attract people for dinner and then
put them back out on the street. It's a burden on the community. It's a burden on the
burden on the neighboring businesses. There's a church or church across the street. There is a
park in the center of the intersection that was built for children. And it's, it's difficult to
believe that this is going to be a positive benefit for the community. There are other
ways to address the serious issue of homelessness in Philadelphia.
of homelessness in philadelphia
thank you adam um if you had nothing else to add you did you also say that
um there was a bishop another person on the call that
gwendoline lewis correct gwendoline lewis said she could not be on the call
uh bishop maxwell is the pastor for her church and she said he might be on the
zoom call but that was an hour and a half ago is bishop maxwell here
i guess not kanya do we have anyone else waiting yes we would now call
samantha petty samantha you are now able to speak you can unmute yourself
Hi, I'm here.
Hi, Ms. Petty, it's Frank DiCicco.
Would you please identify yourself with a record name and address, spell your name?
My name is Samantha, S-A-M-A-N-T-H-A, Petty, P-E-T-T-Y, and I live at 4621 Pine Street,
19143.
Petty, do you swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth?
Thank you.
Please proceed.
And if you can give us something new and different, that would be helpful.
Yeah, I have worked as both a rapid rehousing specialist in homeless shelters and also as an urban planner.
And I just wanted to comment that I'm in support of this proposal.
I think it's a great idea, especially given the location and the historic place where Martin Luther King gave his speech to continue to do his work at this church.
And I think that the proposal for sure will be vetted by LNI.
like every other homeless shelter,
many of which exist in church basements,
but that I find it quite common,
the kind of setup that they are proposing here
in many shelters I've worked in
that have been very successful.
So I feel confident in this proposal
and I just wanted to add my testimony.
Thank you very much.
Any, anyone else, Tanya?
No chair, that's all.
Mr. Horowitz, Mr. Toppin, anything further to say
briefly please if you have anything further i do appreciate the the attention of the board
and to hearing my my client chosen three 300 ministries present and all the support that's
there i would only take due opposition to testimony of a hearsay nature that we heard
from Mr. Perlman. I know that he's hardly be in the right place, but in his proceeding,
we really need firsthand oppositional testimony, and he did not provide that. He talked about
people who told him what happened in the meeting that he was present at, and that's not fair to
us. You can't cross-examine those. But I do want to say that I think the clear message is that
this mission is an extension of this mission of chosen it needs to do this mission for its charter
for its donors and that creates an economic hardship of the of the in using the property