They2 don't ask you -- I mean, since it's a3 firefighter exam, wouldn't the Fire4 Department have some input in that?5 COMMISSIONER AYERS: They reach6 out and they have their own experts, and7 they put the exams together, and they8 have that challenge. And, again, as we9 mentioned earlier, there are certain10 requirements based on court verdicts and11 things like that across the country,12 decisions across the country, and they13 have to follow those very unique and14 sensitive guidelines.15
Last16 thing, just so I'm clear on the17 paramedics, I think Deputy Commissioner18 had mentioned before there was 7219 vacancies, they're going to hire the 24,20 right?21 COMMISSIONER AYERS: That's22 correct.23
You're24 going to have the open enrollment, so the25 166 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 goal is to get to that 72?2 COMMISSIONER AYERS:3 Absolutely.4
And I5 think I heard you say to Council6 President you're confident that can7 happen?8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, I'm9 very confident.10
All11 right. Okay. We all are, I guess.12 Thank you. Thank you very13 much.14 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you.15
Thank16 you, Madam President.17 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:18 You're welcome.19 The Chair recognizes Councilman20 Rizzo.21
Thank you,22 Madam Chair.23 Good morning -- good afternoon.24 I'm sorry.25 167 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Good2 morning, Councilman -- afternoon,3 Councilman.4
Morning and5 afternoon.6 Could you please -- I'm going7 to read your testimony on . "We8 have seen an attrition rate of roughly 809 to 90 members per year, but have been10 able to hire a class due" -- and this is11 the question: What legal issues do you12 have that you can't hire a class?13 COMMISSIONER AYERS: We don't14 have legal issues at this point. The15 legal issues are actually following the16 process that some of the legal issues17 around the country presented and --18
In your19 testimony you say you can't hire a class20 due to legal and financial issues.21 DEPUTY
If I22 may, I'll answer on behalf of the23 Commissioner.24 Everett Gillison, Deputy Mayor25 168 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 for Public Safety.2 Over the last basically two and3 a half years, there have been several4 Supreme Court decisions. One in5 particular came out in the fall that6 indicated that due to either one7 challenge or another on either side,8 minority staffing issues and/or what is9 sometimes euphemistically called reverse10 discrimination, those issues have to be11 dealt with in a positive way.12 The New Haven decision that13 came out in the fall actually is the one14 that we are now and all over as managers15 across the City, we are all in16 consultation with one another to make17 sure that we are following to the letter18 the law as the Supreme Court has defined19 it. Sometimes that is incongruent with20 one another, but we're finding that there21 are several companies that are out there22 that will help design tests that will be23 sensitive to all parties.24 So we are in the process, and25 169 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 that's what our Human Relations2 Department is doing, putting together an3 RFP that is going to allow a company to4 be selected by the City who will design5 the test to the standards that everyone6 believes is fair and has been recognized7 by the Supreme Court of this country as8 being fair to all.9 Once we get that RFP not only10 answered, then selected, then have the11 test designed, going forward we believe12 that's the challenge going forward, and13 that's why it will take as long as it14 will take.15
If we did16 not have financial issues, you're telling17 me that we still couldn't hire --18 DEPUTY
Why can we25 170 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 if --2 DEPUTY
The3 paramedics are in a completely different4 situation. The paramedics was as a5 result of a lawsuit that was filed by the6 paramedics in the City, that we ended up7 having to wait and get some clarity on8 how the paramedics should be hired, but9 that has been straightened out. That's10 been dealt with, and now we are hiring11 paramedics. As the Commissioner has12 indicated, we are hiring paramedics as of13 next week.14
Okay. I'll15 accept your answer, but I can't imagine16 that legal issues that happen in New17 Haven and other places would prevent us,18 with all the lawyers we have, with moving19 forward with a hiring process that's20 legal. So I just -- I have a tough time21 understanding. Maybe it's me not22 understanding, but I want to go on to my23 next question.24 We would have hoped that the25 171 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 brownout issue would have been resolved.2 You all know it's still very3 controversial, but what I want to ask4 you, could you explain to me and to the5 Council how overtime -- and I come from a6 utility background, and I can tell you7 that many, after case studies of serious8 accidents and fatalities, are people that9 have worked too many hours.10 How do you fill these positions11 with overtime? Are they strictly days12 off? Could a firefighter be responding13 to a fire after working 18 hours?14 DEPUTY
No.15 COMMISSIONER AYERS: We have16 limits on the amounts of overtime that17 can be worked and the length of time that18 you have to be off before you can work in19 overtime. So we actually monitor that.20
My question,21 could a firefighter be asked to fill a22 slot that already put in a shift?23 COMMISSIONER AYERS: After?24 Could you complete the question?25 172 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
If I worked2 Saturday, could the battalion chief come3 or could someone come and say, We need4 you to work a double?5 COMMISSIONER AYERS: If you6 haven't worked two shifts already, the7 answer is yes. If you worked two shifts8 already, the answer is no.9
So you10 could -- how many hours is one shift?11 COMMISSIONER AYERS: One shift12 is 14 or 10 hours, 10-hour days, 14-hour13 nights.14
So a person15 in a busy engine or ladder company could16 work over 20 hours -- let's say that17 they're at their 20th hour and the alarm18 could go, and they'd have to work after19 being on the clock for 20 hours? And I20 said a busy place, because everybody21 assumes firefighters, which they don't, I22 know, you know, all over the City aren't23 in a situation where they're idle. They24 could be at their 14th hour just25 173 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 returning from a run and two hours later2 going out on another run.3 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, but4 thank goodness, Councilman, those days5 are over. We are not quite that busy6 anymore. We are busy. We do have7 companies --8
It could9 happen.10 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It could11 happen, because it's situational, yes.12
And you13 agree with me, Commissioner, that a14 person after being on the clock,15 especially in a busy location, being on16 the clock 18, 19 hours could jeopardize17 their judgment or safety?18 COMMISSIONER AYERS: We allow19 the firefighters to work 24 hours20 straight. After 24 hours, they get off.21 If it was an overtime that was available22 for a firefighter, that firefighter would23 not be able to make the overtime. If24 they took on an extra alarm in the 23rd25 174 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 hour of that shift, they would be setting2 up, doing all of those things that they3 normally would do, and immediately the4 incident commander, along with the5 logistics officer, will be scheduling6 relief for those persons that worked that7 shift to leave the fire ground and be8 replaced by the oncoming shift. So we9 would be looking for relief for that10 person.11
My last12 question. It took this Council to deal13 with some property issues. I remember14 sitting in this Chamber when the15 Carpenter Lane fire station floor was16 falling through, and to tell you the17 truth, at that hearing it was not a18 priority by either Public Property or the19 Fire Department. I don't think either of20 you realized how big a deal you really21 had, because the issue was made by my22 colleague Councilwoman Miller about the23 condition of that. Until then, that24 firehouse was business as usual. It took25 175 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 this Council to bring that to your2 attention and also some push from a few3 of us to address that issue.4 Do we have any other Carpenter5 Lane firehouses where they should get6 some immediate action and not after a7 Council budget hearing pushes both Public8 Property and the Fire Department and the9 Administration to do something about it?10 Obviously after it was inspected, it was11 deemed a very bad, dire situation. It12 had to pretty much be emptied until it13 was repaired.14 Do we have any other15 circumstances? Because I'm getting16 e-mails from firefighters, police17 officers telling me about the terrible18 condition, especially in our police19 stations. The fire stations are a bit20 different because they're used21 differently than a police station, but do22 we have any other circumstances that need23 some immediate attention?24 COMMISSIONER AYERS: There's a25 176 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 list that we have that's managed by2 Capital and we have that list3 prioritized, and we go down that list and4 service those stations that have issues5 related to floor problems, roof problems,6 health and safety problems around alarms.7 So that list is right now being worked.8 So I would say, yes, we have9 stations that need repair and that we are10 taking care of it in a prioritized11 manner. And we do appreciate the fact12 that Council monitored and pushed us to13 make sure that that got done at 914 Station.15
My point16 again to end was that Carpenter Lane was17 on that list, but it didn't get taken18 seriously until people went back out19 there and realized we could have an20 apparatus in the basement. So my point21 being is that Carpenter Lane was on22 there, and I hope that that list is being23 taken seriously, that we don't have a24 serious situation in one of the25 177 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 firehouses. And when Public Property2 gets here, we'll talk more about the3 police facilities, but I can tell you4 that there's some concern out there about5 that list, that that list is getting6 pretty stale.7 DEPUTY
If I8 may, Everett Gillison, Deputy Mayor for9 Public Safety.10 Quite frankly, Councilman, I11 was here at the hearing. The next day I12 went out to inspect, along with the13 Commissioner. I took Public Property14 with me and CPO. We inspected. We had15 an engineering study that was done. We16 worked and we looked at it, and then we17 looked at the list.18 Since that time and as a19 result, I have taken not only the Fire20 Department but the Police Department as21 well and we go over the, what I call, the22 top list of what we need to address and23 how we need to address it.24 Obviously a lot of this is25 178 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 prioritization, and, quite frankly, along2 with the Police Commissioner and the Fire3 Commissioner and the Prisons4 Commissioner, the three of us will sit5 down and make that, and ultimately it6 will come down to my call, depending on7 what we see needs to be done.8 When I went out to that9 particular station, we were given three10 different ways of analyzing how to handle11 the problem. It was an easy way, a12 harder way and then the hardest way, and13 we chose the hardest way, because I14 didn't want to have to go back and do it15 again. So that's why it took as long as16 it took, because instead of just17 repairing the problem, we fixed the18 problem. And sometimes it takes a little19 longer, but that's what we do.20 And so, yes, we are looking at21 it. Yes, we are prioritizing it. Yes, I22 am aware, having been a member and been23 in this city for all my entire life, I'm24 aware of the conditions that exist all25 179 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 over in Public Safety, and we have not2 only worked the plan that we came in with3 by prioritizing different things in4 different opportunities, but in seeking5 consolidation, in seeking data that will6 give us the best way forward. That's our7 approach. That's what we're trying to8 do. And, quite frankly, if we had the9 ability to float many, many, many bonds,10 I am sure the Budget Director will tell11 you, if you were to ask her, that Public12 Safety would probably suck up a billion13 dollars worth of building that needs to14 be done in this city. We don't have it,15 so we have to prioritize, and that's what16 I try to do as I go forward. But I do it17 with Council obviously being there as a18 partner.19 Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller,20 Councilwoman Tasco, yourself brought up21 that fire station to our attention. I22 went out personally with all those23 involved, and we ended up addressing it.24 Sometimes that's what it takes, but I can25 180 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 tell you that we've done this now in a2 way that I get reports on a bimonthly3 basis of where we are and where we stack4 with our public facilities, and I thank5 you for that.6
Deputy7 Mayor, it sounds like there's a better8 eye on the ball now. It sounds like that9 you're paying attention to that list and10 not just letting it --11
Could you14 wait until I finish, please.15 That now we are waiting for16 a -- now we are looking at that list,17 we're prioritizing, which is very18 important. But I think prior to your19 involvement in that particular issue,20 that that wasn't happening.21 DEPUTY
We have22 the availability. I mean, we're looking23 at -- as I've always told people, you24 have to do it just like you look at a25 181 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 house. It's roofs, stop the water from2 coming in, stop the foundations from3 washing away and see where we are. So4 it's roof, walls and foundations. That's5 what we have to deal with. We've had a6 lot of different things from the PICA7 report from prior to my getting here, and8 I look at that as well as other things9 that we really have to do. It's just --10 it is a little bit overwhelming, but we11 live in a finite world and we just have12 to prioritize as we go through.13
Thank you,14 Madam Chair.15 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:16 You're welcome.17 Councilman Green, do you have a18 point of information?19
Yes. Thank20 you, Madam Chair.21 Deputy Mayor, I appreciate the22 statements that you're making. They're23 the same statements that were made last24 year in budget hearings and the same25 182 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 statements that were made the year before2 in budget hearings. Since 2008, we have3 been talking about in City Council Fire4 Department hearings the PICA reports from5 2006 and 2007, which identify health,6 safety and life-critical issues in fire7 stations and police stations. The money8 has been appropriated, appropriated for9 those fixes by this body in capital10 plans. You have the resources available.11 What the Capital Program Office has done12 is not release available dollars to those13 issues, but on January 1st of this year,14 two and a half million dollars was15 released for planting trees to the Parks16 and Recreation Department. I would17 suggest that these issues are more18 important than those issues and that19 choices are being made. Resources are20 available. They're just not being21 deployed in a way that I think is more22 appropriate. And so I just wanted to put23 that on the record, felt the need to put24 that on the record given your response to25 183 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Councilman Rizzo's questions.2 Thank you, Madam Chair.3
Thank4 you.5 The Chair recognizes6 Councilwoman Blackwell.7
Thank8 you, Madam President.9 I only rise to say, as has been10 said before, that we remain concerned11 about the brownouts. We thank the12 Commissioner for all they do. I see the13 Firefighters Union are here, Bill Gault14 and company. And this will always be an15 issue, brownout. And I know we don't16 reduce the employees, but we still limit17 their opportunity for success.18 So we continue to say to the19 Administration, to the Mayor that we'd20 like to go back to the days where we21 don't have brownouts in spite of the fact22 that we're going to get additional23 classes, so forth.24 We thank the Commissioner and25 184 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 his team for all that they do, but we2 want to keep this issue alive.3 Thank you, Madam President.4 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:5 You're welcome.6 The Chair recognizes Councilman7 O'Neill.8
Thank you,9 Madam President.10 Commissioner, when Council11 President was asking the panel about the12 number of people that leave each year,13 the sub-number, the sub-category was the14 number of people that leave that are in15 DROP. This is not a normal year. And I16 think the number was around 50. Do you17 know how many it is right now for this18 year, people that you expect to lose by19 the end of the fiscal or over the next20 calendar year, let's say, whatever you21 use as that year?22 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:23 I would expect the same to leave for the24 next three years. I think we're looking25 185 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 four years from now to see a big loss.2
Okay. So3 that group of approximately 50. In4 conjunction with the fact that through5 our inability -- and I'm not saying that6 it's an inability that is in question. I7 mean, we're taking you at your word. You8 can't get this test done quickly enough,9 but it's delaying something you otherwise10 want to do and also that the Council11 wants to do, which is really in the best12 interest of the City, is to get more13 firefighters on the street.14 We have approximately 5015 firefighters that will be going out on16 DROP that we can extend for a year if17 they're willing to and we're willing to,18 all or most of those that would accept.19 I mean, that's an enormous -- that's like20 a class. How many is in a normal class?21 That's a full class right there. You get22 your class in, they're already23 experienced. You save the money of24 running the class, the six-month delay of25 186 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the class, if we had everything ready to2 go today.3 Is there any way we can,4 working together, get that to happen?5 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:6 Councilman, I can tell you that that is7 something that we will be discussing and8 we keep it under discussion. If you9 recall, when the Mayor came on board, we10 ended up doing that with the police.11
So14 depending on the conditions and depending15 on the recommendations both from the16 Commissioner and myself, I'm sure the17 Mayor will take that under advisement.18 But I hear your point and it's a point19 well taken.20
And I21 think Council, not just leadership, not22 just the President, but Council in its23 entirety supports that initiative, and I24 think it would just go a long way to do a25 187 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 whole lot of good all over the place. 6 Commissioner, the other7 question I have is one that I'm going to8 use the example -- start out with an9 example of something I grew up with where10 there were a lot, now I understand11 there's very few, and that's false12 alarms. 19 Now, I say that because I hear20 from different EMTs and firefighters who21 are working as EMTs that particularly22 with the low staffing, with everybody23 needed that you have available out24 fighting fires, delivering EMT services,25 188 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 whatever it is, you're really down to the2 bone or below, digging into the bone3 right now with your numbers of personnel,4 that we don't handle false 9-1-1 alarms5 on the medical side the way we easily6 could handle a false alarm. 11 And you have the perfect front line. 2 If you were to know that it3 could be another five or ten minutes if4 somebody who had a cold yesterday at 25 o'clock in the morning is calling 9-1-1,6 we're taking an engine or a ladder out of7 service, we then are taking the EMT. And8 I just think the time has come for 9-1-19 false alarms. And we almost have the10 same ability. I mean, essentially the11 same. We got trained personnel comes12 there and they know this wasn't a 9-1-113 call, it wasn't life threatening. And I14 don't know how we deal with it. I don't15 know how other jurisdictions deal with16 it, but I've talked to personnel in your17 department more about this in the last18 year or two than ever before, and it19 seems to be building, the frustration of20 knowing how short you are in personnel21 and that this -- while it may not have22 been as prevalent as when we had the big23 numbers of personnel years ago and it was24 just a lot of people used it, we can't25 190 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 afford anybody doing this anymore. It2 has to be the zero tolerance of the false3 alarms on the fire side. 5 I'd really appreciate some kind6 of training going in, some kind of7 feedback on a regular basis from your8 personnel. 17 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you,18 Councilman O'Neill. Several things that19 we are in the process of doing now to20 address that very situation. 20 What this does is actually stack calls,21 those who are less -- those calls that22 are less emergent, say the heart attack23 versus the headache and I just don't feel24 good and I believe I have the flu. 4
See, I5 want to know -- I understand what you're6 saying, but I don't think it's7 responsive.8 DEPUTY
What11 debriefing do we do from the personnel12 that go out there? I'm talking about the13 person that might have the flu who is14 telling us something that is requiring a15 9-1-1 call with a ladder or an engine and16 then an ALS behind it. Because they're17 gaming the system basically, and we can't18 afford to have anybody gaming the system19 anymore.20 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:21 Councilman, I hear you. I hear you.22 Believe me, it's been part of the23 frustration of and really getting to know24 the job. And I do hear you, because25 193 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 basically what you're talking about is2 something we all know. I'm a gunshot3 victim. Then we get there, no gunshot4 and it's just a carry to go to the5 hospital, believing falsely that they6 will get immediate service once they get7 to the hospital. And the question is,8 what can we actually do legally and9 otherwise to stop that practice. It's an10 excellent point.11 I believe that you're right.12 It's something that I will start to not13 only inquire of my fellows from all over14 the country, but also start to look and15 see what kind of -- what can we do here16 within the system we currently have.17
We22 criminalized false alarm fires a long23 time ago.24 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GILLISON:25 194 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Right.2
I think3 it's time to criminalize and send a4 message out that one is no different,5 because public safety is that adversely6 affected.7 DEPUTY
Yeah.8 And I'm sure that there's a number of9 things in the criminal -- I was just10 thinking that there's a couple of11 statutes that are applicable already in12 the matter. I'll take a look at it and13 I'll have my staff look at it. It's14 something I'll be able to get back to15 you, but thank you.16
The21 Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo for a22 point of information.23
I would like24 to back up what Councilman O'Neill is25 195 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 saying, because just to digress a second,2 just to make a point. We spent millions3 of dollars in data gathering at 9-1-14 center, and I understand how the call5 comes into Police and they transfer it to6 Fire, but I've been saying for years to7 the people that run 8th and Race that8 when a phony call comes in, assist the9 officer, just to see police cars, Deputy10 Mayor, there's no followup. We know the11 phone number. We have caller ID. We12 have all the information of where that13 call came from. I just don't understand14 why a supervisor isn't immediately15 dispatched to that location where the16 call came from and find out who made the17 phony call. We have the data. We have18 the name, but at least put the fear of19 God in them that they can't continue to20 do that.21 How many times have unfounded22 fire engine runs and fire runs been23 responsible for serious injury?24 So, honestly, I think we have25 196 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the data. Let's start sending some2 people into the location where the phony3 call came from.4 Thank you, Madam President.5 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:6 You're welcome.7 The Chair recognizes Councilman8 Green.9
Thank you,10 Madam Chair.11 We received copies of the12 reform team reports for various13 departments last summer and I wanted to14 ask some questions about the Priority15 Dispatch System initiative identified by16 the Fire Department's reform team. My17 understanding is that this system will18 help the Department better distinguish19 between emergency and non-emergency20 calls, help improve response times for21 true emergencies, and increase cost22 effectiveness.23 The reform team report noted24 that the Department planned to issue an25 197 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 RFP for an EMS call prioritization system2 in the summer of 2010. Has that RFP been3 issued?4 DEPUTY
No, not5 as of yet, although it is scheduled to be6 released within the next week or two or7 ten days, I believe. It was not released8 last summer.9
Okay. And10 given all the benefits that the reform11 team identified, is there a reason it was12 not released?13 DEPUTY
I just14 didn't feel we were in the process at15 that point of releasing it. We had a lot16 more information we had to get answers17 to. I think we have those answers, and18 that's why it's ready to go. So right19 now it's ready to go and it's going to20 hit the streets.21
What do you22 mean "we didn't have the information"?23 DEPUTY
The24 additional -- we know what the benefits25 198 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 are. We also have to know how to pay for2 it. We also have to know how to schedule3 the rollout. One of the things that we4 were debating internally, quite frankly,5 was even if we ended up having a call6 prioritization, there would have to be a7 public campaign to change how we approach8 and to tell people in the public how9 we're going to change over. I actually10 was in conference with a couple people in11 Syracuse, New York having just gone up12 there to visit, and they actually did it13 in a way that they made an impression on14 me that said, You need to have at least a15 year media campaign to tell people about16 this before you would even start. So --17
So they know18 how to word their calls to still being at19 the top of the list?20 DEPUTY
No.21 Hopefully that we would be able to show22 that they would be able to understand23 that a lot more questions up front are24 going to be asked before you can just get25 199 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 hot-synced from one person to the next so2 that there would be a response. Where3 this has been done well, from what I have4 been able to learn during the fall and5 part of the winter, where it was done6 well, media campaigns have been hand in7 hand, and that's an additional cost that8 we had to anticipate.9
That is12 part of the RFP, to see exactly how much13 people would respond. I'm waiting for14 those. I'll be waiting with obviously15 bated breath to see how various companies16 will handle that and what are they17 bringing forward.18
How much is19 in this year's budget related to the RFP?20 DEPUTY
I don't21 have that offhand. We're doing this -- I22 mean, this is one of those -- this will23 be a combination between either my office24 and/or DOT, since it is a software25 200 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 package that goes along with another2 innovation that DOT would be handling on3 behalf of the Department.4
So really if8 we had program-based budgeting, it would9 be allocated to your department.10 DEPUTY
And is this13 the new deployment software noted in your14 testimony or is that something different?15 DEPUTY
That's16 something else.17 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It is not.18 The new deployment software is based on19 GPS.20
So when do21 you expect, if the RFP goes out next22 week, that you will select a vendor?23 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I could24 not tell you the exact time. I've25 201 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 learned that just now that it is not next2 week, but it is close.3
Well, when4 will it be released?5 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I couldn't6 tell you. I will get that information7 back to you.8
Okay.9 There's a lot of great ideas out there10 and a lot of room for potential changes11 in efficiency and improvements and we12 seem to talk about the same ones year13 after year without ever having14 implemented them. It's time to get stuff15 off the drawing board and get it into16 practice.17 I think in response to -- I18 don't know whose question, because I was19 not here -- there was testimony that20 basically we're talking about the force21 level for the Fire Department and the22 question was related to why you're23 reducing budgeted positions for24 firefighters, and in response to that25 202 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 question, I think Ms. Rhynhart said that2 the position count would go up again in3 2013.4 I'd like someone to explain5 that in light of the budget detail, which6 shows exactly level funding for the7 entire five years of the Five Year Plan8 for Class 100, which is salaries or wages9 and benefits, at 168,191,934 for FY1210 with the same exact number for FY16.11 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:12 Dave Beatrice again.13 The position number was reduced14 by 98. The funding that went along with15 the 98 positions was taken out of the top16 line where they show the positions but17 added to the overtime level. So the18 funding wasn't reduced.19
Overtime is20 in Class 100 also.21 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:22 Yes, but --23
We have24 168,191,934 in FY12, same thing in '13,25 203 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 same thing in '16.2 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:3 There's two questions. One is why does4 it stay the same all those years, but the5 fact that we reduce the 98 is not part of6 that. The funding -- if we had showed7 the 98 positions, we would have the same8 amount of funding. We just revised the9 funding internal.10
So your11 testimony is that going back up in12 firefighter count in 2013 is the13 Administration's plan?14 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:15 Yes.16
By how many17 positions?18 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:19 By the 98. And the funding for those20 positions would come out of the overtime.21
Okay. So we22 can pay for 98 positions through23 decreased overtime, and that's an24 analysis that the Department has already25 204 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 completed?2 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:3 That's the analysis when we took the --4 when we removed the 98 positions, we just5 moved the corresponding funding down a6 line.7
I hear what8 you're saying. Have you done that9 analysis on paper?10
The cost of15 paying overtime is time and a half, so16 it's more expensive to use overtime.17
Right. So when20 we hire -- we want to hire more21 firefighters. When we hire them, the22 overtime costs would go down. So it is23 cost effective to hire -- more cost24 effective to hire more full-time people.25 205 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
So the real2 question, though, is, if what you're3 saying is true, what is the break point4 for hiring additional firefighters5 versus -- is it only 98? If we hired6 115, would that reduce overtime more and7 would it more than pay for itself?8 That's my question.9 What is the break point for --10 there must be -- at a certain point when11 you hire people, you reach a diminishing12 point of returns because you have to pay13 benefits and other things that you14 wouldn't otherwise have to pay. My15 question is, has the Administration done16 an analysis of how many more firefighters17 would reduce overtime that provides a18 break point for what the appropriate19 number of firefighters is if this is the20 only money available?21
I think that's22 something that we look at. It's not -- I23 don't know if there's a formal analysis24 to hand to you, but the ideal situation25 206 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 would be to get overtime until it's just2 handling sort of the surges.3
So let's4 just take this department, because it's5 something we should really talk about in6 every department. Who did that analysis7 for this department and who informed you8 as to the number -- let's just follow the9 process of how you reached the conclusion10 that 168,191,934 can be the same in FY1211 and FY16 and result in 98 additional12 firefighters and how that that's a13 perfect match with reduced overtime.14
First of all, I15 said that -- I didn't say there was a16 written analysis that someone produced.17 I said it's something that we continually18 do look at. The fire --19
So somebody20 told you, the Budget Office, that that21 was the case?22
Let me just23 finish my train of thought here. That we24 haven't, as you know, been able to hire25 207 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 firefighters. We want to get2 firefighters on, full-time firefighters3 on. We have seen -- we want to hire the4 firefighters, reduce the overtime. In5 terms of if we hire faster than the pace6 of attrition, will that lower overtime to7 even a greater degree? I mean, that is8 something that I'm not -- we could look9 at further. I think that the plan now is10 to get new firefighters on as quickly as11 possible, so we're going towards the same12 goal of getting the overtime down.13 In terms of if we hired 30014 firefighters, would that be better than15 hiring just the pace of attrition?16 That's where -- I think that's where17 you're going. I mean, there might be18 some level of it, I'm sure the ideal19 level of the firefighters, but right now20 we're looking at just staffing them up to21 get the overtime down and replace the22 attrition that's happened over the last23 few years.24
But don't25 208 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 you think that's an appropriate question2 for us to ask and for the Administration3 to know?4
Yes, definitely.5 Definitely. I think it's a good6 discussion and I think it's something7 that is part of the discussion and the8 analysis that should happen.9
If you're asking12 for what is the ideal size of the City's13 firefighting force in order to keep14 overtime at the lowest possible amount?15
No. The16 specific statement has been made that if17 we hire 98 people by 2013, which is our18 plan, in addition to the force level that19 we have today, which has been testified20 is our plan, then we will save that same21 amount of money through reduction in22 overtime. So my question is, shouldn't23 we look at a matrix of new firefighters24 to reduction in overtime over a series of25 209 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 different levels of new firefighters,2 whether it's just replacing attrition,3 whether it's increasing -- we've had4 attrition the last few years and no new5 firefighters.6
So we've got8 a lot of catching up to do. But there9 should be a point which we can be told10 where we'll have the least overtime and11 the most effective force and all that12 stuff, and it seems to me that if we're13 not -- that should be the basic analysis14 done by every department when coming here15 requesting funds related to numbers of16 positions, and for one of our crucial17 departments, we don't have it today, and18 we haven't had -- it's not like I haven't19 asked this question every year for three20 years.21
I think that22 what you are asking for in terms of23 what's the ideal -- I think you are24 asking for what's the ideal workforce --25 210 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 what is the ideal size of the2 firefighters over through 2016 --3
I'm not.4 I'm not, because we have a size of the5 force. We have -- that's sort of a --6 that's a life-safety, health issue7 combining it with an overtime versus8 full-time position. I'm saying, given9 where we are today, additional10 firefighters versus -- the bigger11 question is important too and it's12 something that you should know the answer13 to and we should know the answer to, but14 the simple question is, how many people15 should we hire to get -- what is the16 break point for additional firefighters17 versus reduction in overtime, where it18 costs us more to have additional19 firefighters than the benefit we get in20 reduced overtime? Where is that break21 point? Is it 98? Is it 150? What's the22 answer to that question? That's what I'm23 asking.24
Okay. I mean, I25 211 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 think at this point, we've been looking2 at staffing up, but I hear what you're3 saying in terms of that level of -- that4 analysis of where is that break point.5
Is that6 something that the Department can7 undertake to provide us prior to the8 close of the budget hearings?9
I think we could10 look at it. We could provide you11 something.12
Thank you.13 Madam Chair, I have more14 questions, but I'll come back to them. I15 don't want to -- unless I don't know if16 other people have questions, so I yield.17
Thank18 you.19 The Chair recognizes20 Councilwoman Sanchez.21
Thank22 you, Madam Chair.23 Good afternoon. Can you for24 the record tell -- we were very pleased25 212 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 obviously in Council to hear that PICA2 was going to undergo the study. Can you3 tell us where that's at?4 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. The5 study was completed. Several of the6 recommendations has started through7 Capital. The exact count on the number8 of roofs, some of the other things that's9 done with the air exchange systems and10 other things, I can get you that exact11 number. We did get a report from12 Capital.13
It would14 be important for us as we look at these15 so that we're not always asking the same16 questions as what was the low-hanging17 fruit that you're going to do this year18 in terms of what the report showed and19 that that be reflected, and then what are20 some of the longer term ones, because21 that would be important for us to know22 that.23 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes,24 Councilwoman.25 213 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Going2 back to the situation with the3 paramedics. Just last week I was in the4 hospital for a couple of hours and I5 happened to run into one of the6 paramedics that I know, and we were7 talking a little bit. And this goes back8 to what President Verna was saying. Have9 we done an analysis of what the counties10 are paying and of their work rules and11 requirements versus ours? Because one of12 the things that I hear is that once a guy13 comes in, they have 20 minutes before14 they have to go back out and make another15 run in terms of when they come into the16 hospital and that there's -- the reason17 folks don't want to do that job is18 because then there's paperwork, there's19 filing and everything else.20 So have we done an analysis to21 make sure that we're not requiring much22 more to make this job more unattractive,23 let alone the salary, which would be an24 important piece for us to know?25 214 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I can't2 say that we have a fresh analysis. We3 have looked at it in the past, and what4 we're experiencing now is the fact that5 people do want to come into Philadelphia6 and work, even with the workloads that we7 have. Our system has been recognized not8 only as a very busy system in the9 country, which it has, but also a very10 good system in the country, in that the11 paramedics, their skill levels, the work12 that they do, is evidenced by our13 training of our parajumpers for the U.S.14 Air Force. They come here on a regular15 basis now to train from New Mexico, our16 men and women that's going over into17 Afghanistan and other places to rescue18 those pilots and other folks who are19 down. We actually this year had them20 double the class size. Well, actually21 used two classes. So this will be a22 first.23 We have a lot of work that's24 done with other systems on penetration,25 215 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 trauma and things like that.2 So our system is not looked at3 as a system that's like totally broke4 down, distressed. It's looked and5 regarded as a professional system, does a6 good job but, as most systems, challenged7 with the resource levels because of what8 the economies are. And what we do is, we9 staff at the level that we can at this10 point, and we don't have a problem with11 getting overtime or anything like that.12 I've heard the conversations. We're not13 having a problem with folks just up and14 leaving the system. We do have an15 attrition rate. We do look at the fact16 that some folks leave the paramedic17 system and go into other systems that are18 less stressed, but it's not something at19 this point that we're completely20 concerned about. But we will continue to21 monitor, take a look at it.22
No. I23 agree with you. I mean, all the guys and24 ladies that I've confronted are highly25 216 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 professional. I just think about the2 tension, the pressure for the paramedics.3 Again, I happen to be in the hospital a4 couple of hours and one -- and obviously5 it was Temple, which is a trauma unit,6 but I had like the same team come back7 like four or five times just in that8 little time that I was waiting in the9 emergency room. You know, it was like,10 Whoa. And they're like, Well, we have a11 certain amount of time before we got to12 go out and do another run.13 So I've witnessed it myself14 being in the emergency room four hours15 last week. Tension.16 COMMISSIONER AYERS:17 Councilwoman, we absolutely will continue18 to study that. We are moving forward19 with a PICA study that's going to examine20 the entire Fire Department, EMS as well21 as the fire side.22
And what23 is the status of that?24 COMMISSIONER AYERS: The RFP25 217 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 has actually been let. So we're looking2 forward to within 30, 60 days hopefully3 getting started.4
And then5 when will the report be back?6 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It should7 be somewhere eight months. It could be8 as long as a year. Hopefully as soon as9 eight months.10
Okay.11 The sooner, the better. I mean, we keep12 having these brownout discussions. We'll13 continue to have those discussions. A14 lot of us are waiting on that study so15 that we can look at the department and16 staff it appropriately and fund it. I'm17 glad that this year there is additional18 resources to the Fire Department, because19 that's a start.20 One of the issues that I've21 brought out in the past and I notice this22 year again it's listed as to be awarded23 by RFP, is our collections. We're paying24 $4.8 million for our billing. And I know25 218 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 that many times I've had to call your2 office to personally intervene on our3 billing.4 What is our collection rate and5 what is it that we're missing in terms6 of -- when we talk about resources, this7 is an area that I think we have8 tremendous room for growth in terms of9 our collections. And my experience has10 been with the agency, you know, where11 there's something as simple as a birth12 date unmatch and, therefore, people end13 up getting billed. There's probably a14 lot of uncollected monies out there. Are15 we really going to get this done this16 year?17 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:18 The RFP went out last week.19
Oh, it20 did?21 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:22 Hopefully the new contract will start23 July 1st. Hopefully.24
What is25 219 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 our collection rate right now with that?2 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:3 There's various collections rates.4 There's collections rates for Medicaid5 patients, Medicare. So I don't want6 to -- the total average, I really don't7 want to say off the top of my head, but8 when we get that to you, we would break9 it down by the different collections.10
Yeah. I11 think it's important, because when we're12 out in the community, people are always13 talking about uncollected debt,14 uncollected debt, and I think this is one15 of the areas where there's a lot of money16 to be captured that we're not capturing,17 that then we don't need to have a18 discussion about brownouts, because19 you're bringing in -- and I know this20 goes into the General Fund, but I think21 there's a whole universe of money out22 there that we're not collecting here.23 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:24 Okay.25 220 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Once we2 have this testing and the list, we talked3 about this year -- and I guess this is4 what Bill's point was. We're going to5 have one class in April of 2011. What is6 the next class after that that we will be7 able to hire?8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: This is9 for the paramedics. We'll be able to10 hire as soon as we can do the next11 process.12
No, no,13 no. Now that we have a new test, once we14 get our new test and we issue it for the15 firefighters.16 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Okay.17 Once the new test process is to the point18 where we can hire, we expect that to be19 somewhere around the end of Fiscal Year20 '12, and those firefighters, those men21 and women that are hired during that22 process, they'll go through a full --23 excuse me; yeah, a full-week process --24 no, no. They'll go through a full-week25 221 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 EMS process, then they'll go through a2 subsequent 12-week process where they'll3 actually do the firefighting side, and4 then they'll be getting stations and5 coming into the Philadelphia Fire6 Department service.7
So we'll8 get one new class this fiscal year, and9 then what's the new class after that? Or10 no?11 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Okay. One12 of the things that we do is, we look at13 the total number of positions available14 at that time and the total budget15 available, and we will hire as many as16 the budget allows us. We have done in17 the past double classes to catch up with18 the numbers of firefighters that were not19 on the rolls. So we have done double20 classes in the past. So we'll look at21 the budget and the amount that are22 needed.23
And24 while I continue to be encouraged by the25 222 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 lower amount of fires, there have been2 some pretty visible fires, and I know one3 of the issues last year was to cut into4 overtime on the prevention side. Are we5 going to be able to -- I mean, I've6 enjoyed working with your department and7 the folks getting out there. Are we8 going to be doing anything different?9 Because all of these fires, obviously10 people did not have smoke detectors, but11 I know that in terms of getting staff,12 prevention staff, on the ground for13 weekends and evening meetings, there was14 an issue in overtime. Are we going to be15 okay this year with that?16 COMMISSIONER AYERS: The issue17 for overtime remains. I monitor the18 overtime pretty closely as related to19 non-operation overtime, that20 administrative type overtime, and what we21 have done is began to transfer some of22 the responsibility to the field units,23 the individual company actually taking on24 the responsibility of the administrative25 223 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 person.2 So we're continuing to do as3 much as we can, but some of the, i.e.,4 expertise from our fire prevention5 division is not there. But our teams6 have been very capable. They've been7 getting out there, knocking on doors, but8 also attending those community meetings,9 setting up tables with fire prevention10 and getting the job done.11 Again, thank you for what12 you've done with us in the community over13 many years, and we appreciate that.14 We've seen a great drop within your15 jurisdiction, and that's what it's all16 about, working to get these fires down.17 We've had some catastrophic18 fires this year. Most of those fires are19 tragic. We stop, we evaluate those20 fires. We see some of the things that21 could have been done to prevent the fire22 in the first place, and we will continue23 to do those things to help our community24 to become even more safer.25 224 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Thank2 you. Thank you again. I know this is3 hard work.4 Thank you, Madam Chair.5
Thank9 you. Thank you, Madam Chair.10 Good afternoon, Commissioner11 and Fire Department.12 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Good13 afternoon, Councilwoman.14
I just15 have a few questions. Most of my16 questions have actually been answered.17 I want to thank you for all18 that you do and your department does, and19 I agree with Councilman Green, certainly20 the repair and the upkeep of police and21 fire stations are probably more important22 and those kind of public safety issues23 are more important than tree planting.24 But, Commissioner, can you25 225 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 explain this chart to me on the back? I2 was reading the chart and I was trying to3 understand. Like you have an engine4 number, you have a ladder number and then5 some places there's a battalion chief,6 there's a number. Is that the number of7 the person? I don't really understand8 it.9 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you.10 The medic unit is the fourth number. You11 have the engine company, like Engine 2,12 Ladder 3. There's no chief at that13 location, but there is a medic unit at14 that location, which is 31.15
Okay. So16 then if there's a number under battalion17 chief, that's the battalion chief's18 number?19 COMMISSIONER AYERS: That is20 correct.21
Like22 their badge number?23 COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. That24 is their number as far as the district25 226 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 within which they manage. So that would2 be -- the first one is Engine 5, Ladder3 6, Battalion 11. And Battalion 11 is4 responsible for all of the companies5 within that battalion, of which Engine 56 and Ladder 6 are two.7
Okay. So8 we have, what, about 83 fire stations9 and --10 COMMISSIONER AYERS:11 Eighty-three companies, that is correct.12
And 1113 battalion chiefs?14 COMMISSIONER AYERS: That is15 correct.16
And17 that's divided up?18 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.19
Now, for20 example, at Highland Avenue, No. 37,21 Highland Avenue and Shawnee Street, they22 don't have any numbers. So what does23 that mean?24 COMMISSIONER AYERS: They're a25 227 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 single-engine company.2
Which3 means they can only fight what type of4 fires?5 COMMISSIONER AYERS: They fight6 all fires. There's just no one else at7 that location based on the layout of the8 Fire Department at this time.9
All10 right. This fire language is not easy to11 understand.12 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I13 apologize.14
They're15 just as capable as any other station,16 correct?17 COMMISSIONER AYERS:18 Absolutely. They are firefighters.19 Those men and women are trained to do20 within their fire safety and education21 district everything that any other fire22 engine would be able to do within their23 fire safety and education district.24
Okay.25 228 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 And I want to thank you guys for the work2 that you did on Carpenter Lane. We3 actually thought that the fire engine4 would actually be in the basement had it5 not been repaired by this time. So thank6 you for all the work that you did there.7 In your testimony, you talked8 about -- I missed some of it. I missed9 some of your answer. I know Councilman10 Rizzo asked you questions and Councilman11 Brian O'Neill asked you questions about12 the EMS units and the staffing from 8:0013 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. What does that really14 mean? Does that mean that, tying it in15 with your last paragraph, does that mean16 that there's always an EMS unit available17 seven days week?18 COMMISSIONER AYERS: When you19 say "the last paragraph," are you talking20 about page --21
I'm22 talking about the second bullet on the23 first page.24 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I have25 229 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 you. All right. Yes. We have units2 available 24 hours, but the numbers of3 units are -- it varies based on the4 demand from the City. Like during the5 day, we have 50 units available during6 certain periods. It drops down at7 certain other periods, like after 88 o'clock, and during weekends, we have9 sometimes different counts.10 But AQR, what this is about, is11 the new pilot program has one Advanced12 Life Support unit, which is a non-carry13 unit, but they have two paramedics on14 board that respond in a catchment area,15 and in that catchment area, they support16 all of the other units that are currently17 there servicing that community. So18 they'll be in service or out of service19 based on what the demand is.20
Okay. So21 if someone has an emergency and they've22 called 9-1-1, tell me how that exactly23 works, how this AQR -- well, under the24 AQR, how does this ALS -- all these25 230 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 acronyms.2 COMMISSIONER AYERS: We3 apologize, but that's our world.4
I know.5 I know.6 COMMISSIONER AYERS: What7 happens is, a call will come into the8 9-1-1. The Fire Communications Center9 will field that call, listen to what10 they're asking for. If the call is11 requesting or requires an Advanced Life12 Support response, what will happen is the13 AQR will be dispatched along with a BLS,14 and they'll get to the scene -- Basic15 Life Support -- they'll get to the scene16 and they'll make the intervention for17 that person. They'll start to do the18 assessment. If it's required that they19 have to do internal intervention, like20 provide fluids or IV or anything like21 that, they'll start it. If it's a heart22 attack, they'll start the CPR. They'll23 put on all of the AED and all of those24 things, and they'll begin to assess the25 231 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 person, package the person.2 The Basic Life Support unit3 will be there as well. They'll be4 responding as well, and they'll be5 preparing to take that person. And as6 soon as the paramedics are finished their7 intervention, they'll put that person on8 the stretcher and take them to the9 hospital.10
Okay. So11 this means -- does any of this mean that12 we have enough EMS units open?13 COMMISSIONER AYERS: This is14 actually a pilot to ensure that we have15 an ALS presence in the catchment area in16 South Philly, in that area, during the17 hours of 8:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m., making18 sure that they're there, and also to cut19 down the time that it would take to get20 the ALS unit to that location. And right21 now we've seen that the numbers as far as22 how successful they have been, we're23 pleased with the numbers, and we'll be24 looking and seeing what kind of budget we25 232 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 have. Maybe we can implement that in2 some other areas.3
Okay.4 I'm going to probably meet with you one5 on one, but I want to thank you for6 contributing your defibrillators to the7 Rec Department.8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: You're9 very, very welcome. The City is very10 welcome. We're glad that we could11 actually make it happen so that we can12 have indeed a safer city.13
Right.14 That's really great. Okay. Thank you.15 Thank you, Madam Chair.16
Thank17 you, Councilwoman.18 What if you get two calls in19 the same area and you have the Basic20 system and the other? I mean, do we --21 what happens if two people -- if you have22 two people in the same area who need23 support? Do we always send both systems24 out to the same location?25 233 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COMMISSIONER AYERS: There is a2 process or an order for the way that we3 send out our Basic units and our ALS4 units, but if we have a situation that5 you just said where the ALS -- the AQR is6 on location with a BLS giving service, as7 soon as the other call comes in, the next8 available ALS, as we do throughout the9 entire City, will be dispatched to that10 person in need. So we'll always be11 dispatching a unit towards the need.12
Thank you.16 Thank you, Madam Chair.17 Good afternoon, gentlemen.18 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Good19 afternoon, Councilwoman.20
Let me21 thank you for that fire safety 101. It's22 quite informative.23 I want to go back to the24 observations made by Councilman Green,25 234 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 stacked with the concerns raised by2 Councilman Brian O'Neill, and ask the3 question, where are we as a city when it4 comes to best practices in terms of5 dealing with this, what for me is new6 information around false -- would you7 consider them false alarms? Would they8 fall into that category, the9 circumstances described by Councilman10 Brian O'Neill?11 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Some are12 false and some are calls that are13 non-emergent.14 COUNCILWOMAN BROWN:15 Non-emergent.16 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Calls that17 are non-emergent does not necessarily18 mean that it's false, does not19 necessarily mean that that that person20 does not need medical care. It's just21 that they don't need the acute medical22 care, like a heart attack, a stroke,23 things like that. What the Councilman24 was speaking to is how we handle people25 235 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 who we know have issued a false alarm or2 a false call.3 We have -- we monitor that, and4 when we see that we get a location or5 people who do that consistently, we have6 a chief that actually goes out, a7 paramedic chief that goes out, talks to8 that person or to their family.9 Sometimes we get it where folks are --10 they have dementia or other issues. We11 try to get resources within the community12 to help them, their church or community13 groups to try to help them with their14 issue. We try to make sure that they are15 receiving hospitalization or things like16 that they may need. But if it's17 persistent to the point where it's clear18 like this person is having a problem --19
Clear20 violation.21 COMMISSIONER AYERS: -- we22 bring their family in and we bring the23 police in, and we let them know that it's24 going to be a problem if they continue25 236 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 this action.2
So there's3 no standard operating procedure as such4 or some measurement where you draw the5 line? It's based on just case management6 of a certain --7 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It is case8 management, but there is a line that's9 drawn, and I'll have to talk with CQI and10 with those investigators to find out11 exactly what the number is.12
Point of13 information, Madam President.14 I still don't think the15 Commissioner understands my inquiry here.16 I'm talking about the person -- you17 actually, Commissioner, described the18 person perfectly. They have a cold, they19 may have the flu. We should not have an20 engine or a ladder ever at that person's21 house, and people should be made aware of22 it. There should be much more of a23 public information campaign about it.24 But, secondly, every25 237 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 firefighter or paramedic who comes back2 from these runs should have just a3 debriefing quickly. Was that really a4 call that was a 9-1-1 call? And I'm not5 sure I'm making my point to the6 Commissioner. This is not somebody7 that's not serious enough to require8 Advanced Life Support. I'm talking about9 it's not serious enough to be a 9-1-110 call, period. It doesn't mean the person11 is not sick. A whole lot of people are12 sick that don't require 9-1-1, but13 there's a whole lot of people who are14 sick that use 9-1-1, and the firefighters15 and paramedics see it all the time. And16 when you're talking about 10,000 runs17 that some of these people have and we're18 not even through the calendar year, every19 one of these that we can eliminate -- it20 goes beyond what I was talking about21 earlier, which is helping someone else22 who needs help for real and is a real23 9-1-1. But we're wearing down, as we've24 heard many people ask, we're wearing down25 238 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 these and causing burnout with these2 paramedics and firefighters that are3 working on their units, and this is a4 contributor to it.5 So, I mean, I think unless this6 is a top priority, we're going to be7 sitting here next year talking about8 what's a false alarm and what's not.9 It's the equivalent -- when a piece of10 apparatus has to go out there, that's no11 different than if they had to go out to a12 fire, and one is getting treated a lot13 differently than the others, and yet14 we've never had in our worst history had15 the number of false alarms for fires that16 we have for people requesting 9-1-117 services, engine, ladder, medic, as we do18 now. It's off the radar screen, as far19 as I'm concerned, and we got to not only20 put it on the radar screen, but put it21 right at the top. Thank you.22
Do we23 have any indication as to how many such24 calls that are not emergency calls that25 239 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 we receive?2 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, we3 do. We call it non-emergent calls, and4 we differentiate that between Advanced5 Life Support calls.6
And7 how many such calls do you think the Fire8 Department receives that are9 non-emergency calls?10 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It's a11 high percentage, and that high percentage12 is, it's above -- it's around 70 to 8013 percent. And one of the things that14 we've done about that is, we have a15 program which we call Community First,16 and in that program, one of the things17 that we've done with limited resources is18 to print up brochures and pamphlets and19 to take them to every hospital waiting20 room, every community medical service21 office. We've carried them on our units,22 our medic units, to distribute to the23 public. We've had them available at each24 and every firehouse. And what it does,25 240 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 those pamphlets, talk to people about the2 limited availability of our medic units3 for everybody, that the medic unit that I4 might need for my sister or my brother is5 the same medic unit that you might need6 for your sister or your brother, and that7 we need to understand that it's a shared8 limited resource and we have to use it9 properly. That's what that does.10 We've been on the radio with11 it. We've been -- we've had it in the12 paper. We need to be a little bit more13 prominent with those things. So we have14 done those things.15 But the other piece to this is16 the fact that we get emergent calls that17 don't necessarily need the highest level18 of our paramedic care does not mean that19 they are not emergencies and it does not20 mean that we need to just look at an21 emergency call for someone who needs,22 say, to get their finger broke because --23 I mean, excuse me, finger set because24 it's broke. We might look at that as a25 241 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 non-emergent call, but that person needs2 to get to the hospital. In our 9-1-1 --3 excuse me; in our Community First4 program, what we tell them is that they5 could also take a neighbor's car if they6 have a broken finger, that they could7 take a taxi if they have a broken finger.8 But if they have a broken arm, we know9 that we need to take them, because that10 broken arm could be a compound fracture11 that could puncture a vein and we need to12 be there.13 So it's different levels of14 emergency. The system that we talked15 about, which is called Priority Dispatch,16 is one of the things that we've done.17 We're close to getting it in, and what it18 does is, it monitors what the call is.19 It says a series of questions that stacks20 calls versus using every call as first21 in/first out, and that's one of the22 things that we're doing to deal with23 this. Those folks who are doing criminal24 things, we go after them, but the25 242 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 majority of it is education.2
But3 giving these pamphlets to people in the4 emergency room, as I understood you to5 say, I mean, don't you think that's after6 the fact?7 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It is, but8 we get the opportunity at whatever point9 we can to educate our people.10
I11 think there has to be a better way of12 communicating with people.13 COMMISSIONER AYERS: The14 citizens in Philadelphia -- again, I15 think the Deputy Mayor talked about the16 package that goes along with this, and we17 acknowledge the Councilman and18 everybody's interest in this and what we19 have to do, but we are moving forward20 with a program that we believe will be21 effective in taking care of this22 non-emergent calls, getting them to other23 places so that our firefighters won't24 have to get on those engines and get out25 243 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 into the street and our paramedics won't2 have to be overwhelmed with sniffly3 noses. We understand the problem, and we4 are addressing it.5
Point of8 information.9 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:10 Councilwoman Brown, I'm sorry.11 Councilman Rizzo has a point of12 information.13
Just 3015 seconds.16 Commissioner, get me once -- I17 forget the expression. You know the18 expression.19
Get me once,22 not twice.23 Why can't we just do something24 that's very commonsense? You identify25 244 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the fact that a person got transported2 that in fact they didn't need. Why don't3 you just simply send them a letter so the4 next time they try to pull the same5 stunt, they're on record that they might6 not get service if the paramedic or unit7 arrives and it's determined that they8 caught their fingernail in the drawer?9 DEPUTY
Thank10 you very much. Everett Gillison, Deputy11 Mayor for Public Safety.12 As I indicated earlier, I heard13 exactly what the Councilman was talking14 about. I understand what he's talking15 about, and I think that we are at the16 point where we have to address it in a17 more proactive way.18 To your question or your19 statement, Councilman Rizzo, the issue20 with the notice -- because I would call a21 letter a notice requirement -- we would22 never be able to put down that you may23 not get service, because now we're going24 to get into legal issues that I don't25 245 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 even want to get into. But, however, I2 think that if we are putting together the3 analysis -- the first year I sat in this4 chair I heard that 75 percent of the5 calls to our EMS system are non-emergent,6 75 percent. Last year we did 233,000.7 We have to do a better job of educating8 the public that there are consequences,9 not just the consequences that we're10 talking about, but to those that11 Councilman O'Neill is referring to, those12 that know how to game the system. I'll13 use your words. We have to speak to14 those people in a way that will not only15 get their attention, but to dissuade them16 from acting in that way.17 I hear it. I think we have a18 way of dealing with it, and we can go19 forward. Just give me an opportunity to20 come back and I'll provide something to21 the Chair.22
Thanks,23 Madam Chair.24 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:25 246 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Councilwoman Brown.2
Thank you,3 Madam President. It's clear that that's4 an issue that matters deeply to all of5 us.6 And if I could offer my two7 cents on the education piece. The8 Department has done an extraordinary job9 with regards to fire prevention, visiting10 senior citizen centers, just a variety of11 places where people gather, and it has12 made an enormous difference when you look13 at where we are now with regards to the14 drop in fires, and that speaks to15 prevention and education.16 So as you seek to roll out your17 next comprehensive strategy, never, ever,18 ever forget, or please remember, our19 schools, because young people can be a20 conscience for our adults as well. And I21 know that visiting your schools is a part22 of what you do anyhow, so add this as23 another leg or layer of information that24 we need to give, not just to seniors and25 247 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 adults but to young people as well,2 because they can have a real role in3 this, coupling with rec centers, et4 cetera, et cetera, churches, the clergy,5 just a comprehensive strategy across the6 board, given that the number is as high7 as it is.8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.9 Thank you, Councilwoman.10
You are11 welcome.12 You spoke on the first page of13 your testimony about the FEMA grant.14 What's the status of that? Are we15 fortunate enough to have that again going16 forward since that's a real factor in the17 reduction of fire fatalities?18 COMMISSIONER AYERS: We19 currently have a grant application in,20 and we're waiting to find out the21 results.22
So that's23 a multi-year grant or year-to-year, or24 what?25 248 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It's2 year-to-year, and this grant, Assistance3 to Firefighter grant that we had, was4 given to maybe five cities across the5 country, which we were one of.6
Okay. So7 that was a prize, if you will.8 COMMISSIONER AYERS:9 Absolutely.10
Given so11 many cities across the country.12 My last question would be, if13 you had to ID or list your one or two top14 achievements or accomplishments for year15 past, what would they be?16 COMMISSIONER AYERS: For the17 past year?18
Yes.19 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I would20 say the opportunity to have our21 firefighters, our men and women, do the22 great work that they did with those smoke23 alarms and knocking on doors and facing24 the challenge of a changing fire service,25 249 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 and really understanding the new2 mentality, fighting the fire with3 prevention, fighting the fire before it4 happens, because that's what we're doing5 now, and I think that they really get it.6 They enjoy it. The community loves them.7 They love the community. They know the8 community more, and they've been an9 integral part of just getting out there10 and being what we've always been, a part11 of the community.12 The fire doors are up now.13 Folks are flowing in and out, asking14 questions, and we've become a group who15 know how to reference the 3-1-1 system16 versus the 9-1-1 system, getting help17 before the tragedy.18
The19 paradigm shift has been all good in every20 way, and I join my colleagues in21 acknowledging -- commending you on this22 major milestone, the third lowest number23 of fire fatalities in recorded history,24 and the new paradigm where fire25 250 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 departments, fire stations are a real2 face, engaged and integrated into the3 community.4 COMMISSIONER AYERS:5 Absolutely.6
Thank you7 very, very much.8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you.9
Thank12 you.13 Commissioner, I think in just14 having brief discussions with a couple of15 my colleagues, we're really not too16 clear, and maybe you could explain it to17 us a little more in detail, what the AQRI18 is or so that we fully understand what19 that is.20 DEPUTY
Let me21 see if I can help. Deputy Mayor Everett22 Gillison.23 Madam President, the AQR24 vehicle is a pilot program. Think of it25 251 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 this way: We wanted to see how quickly2 we could get advanced medical services to3 a certain geographic area and measure and4 obviously see what that would actually do5 to our response times, by having a roving6 unit, one that we would be able to be7 always in contact with through GPS8 locations and dispatch, in this catchment9 area. We're not running them part of the10 entire system. So all we're doing is11 augmenting. We're not taking away from12 anything we were currently doing. We13 added one more unit, and it's a roving14 unit. It's in a Ford Explorer. So it's15 not in a box. It's Ford Explorer with16 two guys, men or women, in it as17 paramedics.18 When a call comes out in this19 geographic area, they go, and they can20 get there faster because smaller unit.21 It's based on an Army mentality of22 getting them there as quickly as we can23 in a small, effective unit, stopping --24 getting that quick intervention. And25 252 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 then the carry unit, if they come on and2 they need to be carried, the carry unit3 will go. These guys scrub back up and4 then they go right back out on the5 street. So it's constant pressure to get6 to people as quickly as possible. The7 idea is, let's get some data to see if8 those kinds of units can help us in the9 City of Philadelphia.10 We have also found out as a11 result of doing this project that12 sometimes the unit will get to the scene13 and it can call off the BLS unit faster,14 because they're not unit. They can15 actually handle what's needed, handle16 what's wrong with the citizen, it's not a17 carry situation. We can call that person18 off. So constant communication in19 realtime. We are handling things and20 we're getting data to see how we can help21 the system going forward.22 So don't imagine that it's23 something out there that's instead of.24 We took our regular paradigm of what we25 253 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 were giving by way of resources and we2 added this to see how could a smaller,3 lighter, more quicker unit can get to4 places and will it be able to get us out5 of situations we don't need to be in and6 situations that we do need to be in, how7 fast we got there, get that intervention,8 run those lines and then make sure that9 the BLS that would have normally10 responded get them in and get them out,11 and this unit can then go right back on12 the street. That was the question, and13 we're still getting the data from this14 pilot as we go forward. So I hope that15 that --16
I get17 back to my question, I guess, an hour18 ago. Is this the same as --19 DEPUTY
--22 what the Commissioner called rover last23 year?24 DEPUTY
Yes.25 254 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 We were talking about a roving unit that2 we would have, but it was a larger -- we3 were looking last year at a larger pass.4 This year we're just talking about using5 a smaller geographic area that we kept it6 in there.7
All12 right. Now, can they administer --13 DEPUTY
Okay.18 Once they do that, then the patient is19 transferred?20 DEPUTY
If21 you're doing those kinds of running the22 lines of oxygen and medical and23 everything else, the BLS unit, the big24 carry unit, would come in and they would25 255 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 just give that person -- the paramedics2 would just hand that off to the BLS for3 transport to a local hospital.4
The12 Commissioner seems to have something.13 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. The14 Advanced Life Support team that are on15 location stays by that patient's side16 until that patient is transported to the17 hospital, no different than if this was18 an ALS unit with the carry unit. The19 difference is that this unit is going to20 get there more rapidly. So the patient21 never loses the ALS care even though it's22 a BLS unit on scene.23
ALS24 transports them?25 256 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
No.2 COMMISSIONER AYERS: The BLS3 unit is two firefighters. AQR is two4 paramedics. When the medic unit comes on5 the scene to an ALS case, they just6 switch and the paramedic gets in with the7 patient in the BLS, which is now actually8 instantly converted to ALS, and takes9 them to the hospital.10 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:11 That's an explanation.12
Madam13 President?14 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I'm sorry15 I took a long time to get to that.16
Point of17 information.18 The first on the scene -- or19 ALS, they can do intervenous and other20 things. They're turning it over to21 somebody -- this is just a question.22 They're turning it over to somebody who23 can't do that, who is not qualified to do24 those kinds of things.25 257 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. They2 never turn them over. If it's an ALS3 run, the Advanced Life Support team,4 those paramedics, they're going to stay5 with that person, but they're going to6 use the firefighters/EMTs --7
Oh,8 they're actually going to the --9 COMMISSIONER AYERS:10 Absolutely. They're just using their11 vehicle.12
In the13 last five iterations of this, they were14 going somewhere else because they're fast15 and quick and they can cover other16 scenes. It was only the BLS doing the17 transport.18 DEPUTY
Yes.23 The whole idea is if it's necessary. The24 idea is that we're trying to get the25 258 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 data, because a lot of the times what2 we're finding is, we get these guys out3 there, they treat, they don't need to4 really get in. They could actually say5 this is not something that's needed to6 be. We can leave it to the BLS to carry,7 and these guys can scrub and go back out.8 Sometimes we don't have that option.9 Sometimes they need that care, so then10 they just get into the unit and then they11 go.12
I think we13 covered a whole lot with the followup.14 Thank you, Madam President.15 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:16 You're welcome.17
I got to ask18 the question.19 In a case where that rover20 decides that he needs to go with the21 patient to the hospital, what do you do?22 Put the keys of the other unit under the23 mat? What do you do?24 DEPUTY
Yeah.8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: They9 follow them to the hospital. The10 firefighters drive it and they follow11 them to the hospital.12