Fitler gets free transportation because they're a school that's been designated as de-seg., desegregation.
Let's go back to the high schools. You said that there are no 14 citywide high schools that receive transportation services?
I think Lankenau gets free transportation as a result of hazardous conditions.
So, again, by way of Board policy, you consider -- since there are no citywide schools that get transportation 2524 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. service --
Your position is no 5 citywide schools get transportation services. Charter schools are considered citywide schools; therefore, a charter schools is a citywide school; therefore, it does not get transportation services. Is that the basic theory here?
Okay. And the only way for that to change is if you decided that charter schools were not citywide schools. For instance, if they were local schools; is that correct?
That is not a decision that we are free to make. Charter schools are, by law, citywide. They must draw from the entire District.
Neither we, nor charter schools are free to draw their boundaries.
We cannot and charter 2525 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. schools themselves cannot draw their boundaries to be neighborhood schools.
By law, they are required to be open to any City resident who wants to attend.
And I'm sure that since you're making that announcement today, you could, subsequent to this hearing, detail the section of the Charter School Law that provides that?
Okay. So under what circumstances, based on what the law says about transportation services, under what circumstances would you end up ever providing transportation to charter schools? If a charter school -- by what you're saying, Miss Sparkman -- by law is a citywide school, and if the Board's policy is that you don't provide transportation services to citywide schools with the exception of desegregation, hazardous conditions, and a couple of others, under what circumstance would the District ever 2526 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. provide transportation to charter schools?
To special ed. students whose IEP, their individual education plans, mandate that the child be transported.
Okay. And lastly in this area -- 'cause I kind of lost track of it through the news accounts -- what ended up happening -- I don't want to say it incorrectly -- is it mosaic?
Is that correct? What ended up happening in that situation? I lost track after about two newspapers stories. What was the final on that? That was last summer, you guys were back and forth, were getting to hold the money, the State said give it to 'em. And I just lost track of what happened.
That matter continues to be in litigation with the State providing the basic subsidy.
We are providing 2527 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. transportation and we're demanding that as that suit resolves hopefully in our favor that we be reimbursed all of our costs, including transportation.
Okay. So, again, lastly, your testimony is that by law, charter schools are citywide, the District cannot change their designation to neighborhood. If you could and if there were neighborhood schools, then they would primarily be subject to probably the mile-and-a-half criteria, and then there would be transportation. But because of this distinction between a neighborhood school and a citywide school, you do not provide transportation because they are citywide schools, and you don't provide transportation to citywide schools.
That's correct. One other thing, though. Our neighborhood schools where we do provide transportation if a kid lives more than a mile and a half away has very few kids live a mile and a half away.
Right, because there are so many schools. 2528 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
So if the law were not what the law is and that happened, there wouldn't be much transportation provided anyhow because the kids would live inside a mile and a half.
This really will be my last question. Dr. Hornbeck, you know that I have participated in the much-discussed selection criteria group with Board Member Ramos, and you had provided, or maybe Catherine Connor provided us with maps of many of the schools that were under discussion. And it was, for lack of a better term, kind of a dispersion map that showed the school and then where the population was drawn from for that particular school. And I was surprised to see where many students came from to go to certain schools. Could you provide the Chair, and then through the Chair for the members, the same kind of mapping for all of the charter schools so that we can get some better estimation of where the students come from that go to the charter schools? 2529 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
I see all the heads in the back shaking "no." That's because you don't know the kids?
Do children have to tell us when they leave us that they're going to a charter school?
And in some charter schools, most of the kids are kids, for example, who have transferred from parochial schools. I don't know about most, but large numbers of them have transferred from parochial schools into the charter schools, not from public schools into the charter schools.
Who do the charter 2530 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. schools tell who their student population is? I mean, who do they kind of report to?
I mean name, address, who your mom is, who your dad is. I mean, for every public, obviously that all gets turned over at the -- I mean, who at the end of the day, other than the governing council of the particular charter school? I mean, what governmental entity is responsible to oversee what goes on in the charter school, who the kid are, where they come from an all that?
We have that information for the first two years because for the first two years, the law provided a subsidy for kids who came from the non-public schools. That ends this year.
So we can do this dispersal thing, do you think? 2531 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
We may be able to do dispersal map, or whatever you call it, for those.
Okay, thank you. And thank you Madam Chair. It was a long unit. Thank you, I'm done.
The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo for a point of information.
Superintendent Hornbeck, with all the different forms of education -- home schools, charter schools, your schools, parochial schools -- who's the oversight? Could you just describe -- a child's born. At what point do they have to begin their education? And could you describe for me, if a parent decides never to send their child to school -- how does the process work that someone realizes that we have a child, four kids living in a house that have never been enrolled in a school?
Age 6 is now the beginning of compulsory schooling in Pennsylvania. And in Pennsylvania and in every 2532 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. other state, I think, the fundamental responsibility for schooling belongs to the Commonwealth, to the State. It's a Constitutional provision. So the ultimate authority with respect to education is the state of Pennsylvania.
Now, if there's a seven-year-old and the parents never pursued educating that child, how does the process work? What happens?
Actually, the compulsory ages of education in Pennsylvania are ages 8 to 17. Most kids do start at age 5 at kindergarten and 6, but it's absolutely compulsory at 8. And so there is no real obligation to go and look for someone until age 8, and then a number of parents do home school, and that's also allowed in Pennsylvania, but they have to register with the State. The State overall is in charge of all education in Pennsylvania.
My question is: If at age 8, a child hasn't shown up, home school, not registered, what happens? 2533 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Well, we will assume we know the child exists. And that child we would likely not know. But let's assume we know the child exists.
If the child is age 7 and has never been in school, we have an 8 obligation to go against the parents and require 9 the parent to either enroll the child or submit a plan to the State for home schooling.
So you would have to physically know that a child exists. There's no 13 master list that you get that there should be -- in other words, if a young child is getting some type of assistance from the government, is that a child that you know?
No? So they could be getting assistance from the government but the school system wouldn't know they exist?
Let me make a comment about this whole transportation discussion. It strikes me as maybe a place where 2534 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. one of our coalitions might work. I mean, we're not against transportation for kids going to charter schools; we are against spending additional money of our kids to provide services to charter-school kids that our kids don't have themselves. But we talked yesterday about the $9 a week, for example, that families have to pay for tokens. It doesn't make any sense. It -- it might be a place where all of us could work together with a view to getting tokens for all public-school kids for free, including our schools, including charter schools, and you know, whomever in the course of it. What leads us to these long discussions, in fact, about this issue and about whether or not somebody is, in my judgment, in an instruction budget category for accountants and in something else is all because we're cutting these lines really tight and close on this stuff. It's another distinction between us and the suburbs -- they don't have discussions like this; they just provide all their kids transportation. So they don't have discussions about whether somebody 2535 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. who's helping their teacher teach better is an instruction person or not an instruction person. But on the transportation front, it seems to me that this might really be a great area for us, for everybody to come together and say, you know, we ought to be transporting our kids, and that's going to cost more money, and therefore. . .
Superintendent, back to my question about -- do you have any idea how many children may live in Philadelphia, that their parents have never stepped forward and educated them? Do we have any clue? It sounds to me like there really isn't a system in place to assure that a parent is educating their children, especially since you used the term "if" we know about them. I don't know how you know about them or how you can make a statement that you don't know about them.
Well, if I -- happily, I don't think it's a huge problem because most parents know that education is good for their kids and they love their kids and so they bring their kids to the public schools. 2536 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. All I'm saying is that if there should be a child someplace, then the system that would pick that occasion up, I should think, would be Social Services because I would think that in initial instance, that would be a part of a definition, for example, of neglect.
But we don't have people who go into the homes of people -- I mean, you know, we don't -- so that doesn't --
But if that conditions exists -- and I don't want to pursue that anymore -- the Social Services people would then, what, come to the School District and say, Hey, look, we have a 10-year-old that's never spent day in school? And someone in the School District would do something to reach out?
Well, it would be a partnership between Social Services and us. It would probably be the Social Services worker sort of acting as the parent that would get the kid to the school rather than the school person doing it.
The reason with all 2537 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. the different forms of education now, like home schooling, a high-school child could basically just fall between the cracks because of all the different opportunities that they have to get an education today. You said at years old, it 7 requires -- 8
Thank you. I feel better about that now. Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. Councilwoman Blackwell, do you still want to be recognized?
Yes, please, still on the transportation issue. Masterman and Lamberton, what kind of schools are they?
Are they both citywide? (Dr. Hornbeck confers off mike with staff members.)
Masterman is a citywide school. Is Lamberton citywide? 2538 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. (Dr. Hornbeck confers off mike with staff members.)
Does not Masterman bus kids? Don't they do any busing there?
You don't get free transportation at Masterman. There are kids that ride the bus but they buy tokens to get there, like we were talking about yesterday.
You mean kids who ride regular bus or a bus for those children? Does a bus go to pick them up?
We do not have yellow bus routes into the Masterman School.
My concern is almost virtually -- as I said, I visited every charter school. I found in my opinion that the principals and teachers and kids are public- school, quote/unquote, kids. And in my experience, we didn't have teachers and students who came from someplace else; they were the same neighborhood kids and teachers who wanted a chance 2539 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. to do something different and to try to get out of this whole maze and this big bureaucracy that our educational system is and to try to deal with a smaller entity and to fulfill their dreams as they saw it or someone else's mission of what public education could be. So, again, my experience is that these are public-school people who have opted to go be principals, administrators, and/or teachers and students at charter schools. My question is this. This question of transportation has been asked by virtually every charter school and we've been talking about it for a couple of days and it's been debated from the inception of charter schools. Why, if the State charter says that charter schools have to be citywide schools and that citywide schools don't get busing, how come nobody said that? How come nobody said this to all these charter school administrators who, I'm sure, many have greater qualifications than I. I mean, my background is teaching as well, but I'm sure they would have understood and would not be fighting as long and hard as they 2540 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. have if they know that transportation has never been an option for them. Why didn't somebody say it? Or how come this is not understood?
Well, I can't for sure answer the second part of that, why it's not understood. But I know that we have said it repeatedly over and over and over and over and over again.
I don't think so. I would not have asked the same question.
We've done it both orally and in writing. And, in fact, we've done several times here in the last two days.
I don't think I've heard it. Unless I'm wrong, I would venture to believe that if you polled my colleagues, they didn't hear this conversation that a charter school is a citywide school. And by definition of it being a State charter and that citywide schools don't get transportation; ergo, charter schools don't get transportation. I would venture to say nobody heard that until just. Now, I think we can kind of understand what we hear and I will bet you that these charter 2541 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. school administrators didn't hear that and we certainly didn't hear that until now.
Well, we have said it a number of times, but I'm always looking at the glass half-full. I'm grateful that it's now understood that these are citywide under the State law.
Therefore, as I said, Superintendent Hornbeck, some schools are spending their allotment for transportation when they want to spend it on education, on computers, teachers and the like. It seems to me that this is -- in your statement, you said you're not opposed to it, that it's not an anti-charter school issue for you, that this is some area that we really, really need to find some way to kind of work it out. If all people come together -- you mentioned some committee or some interested people from both sides that perhaps can get together and deal with this as an issue.
We agreed that the issue of transportation needs serious attention by Harrisburg and that this is not something that can be solved in Philadelphia. 2542 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. One of the provisions that is in the Fair Opportunities to Learn Standards is a provision that would, for example, eliminate the cost of tokens to the kids because we think that it's unfair to charge our kids to get to school. The part that I would oppose either here or in Harrisburg vigorously is the notion that charter-school kids would get services that public-school children do not get. If there's going to be a solution to this, then I think there needs to be a solution to the transportation dilemma that faces both public-school children and charter-school children, not one that is again a special pleading solution for the case of the 7,000 kids in charter schools at a cost to the 208,000 kids in the Philadelphia School District.
I think we've heard you talk about the cost of tokens, and I agree, I agree that our children should not have to pay for public education, but I've heard no 23 other complaints from the School District about transportation as a problem. Certainly, when we advocate, we advocate for all, that's our 2543 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. responsibility, our elected responsibility. But we've heard no other complaints from the School District. It's generally been tokens. And as was said yesterday and as was said before in years past, we have reached a point now where if you have a large family -- and many of our families today are large -- and if you have a family of five, every kid can't go to school when you have to buy tokens.
Who would have thought that we would live to see this year approach the millennium and have a time when all students in our country, in our city can't go to school because they can't afford to get there. That's a serious problem, and certainly we join hands in our willingness to resolve that so that we can do something. But as I said, we really, for these 7,000 kids, had no idea, nor I'm sure did their administrators. But we want to work together and would request, Madam Chair, that some of us join hands with all those who may be interested with the 2544 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Superintendent. And if he would do his part, we can contact some folks from the State to deal with this as an issue to see if we can't come up with some resolve.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Mariano.
Thank you, Madam President. Thank you very much. Let me just preface this with -- besides being a City Councilman, I'm the parent of a 8th-grade student at AMY 5. And you're aware of that 'cause you helped me when I took Vincent out of parochial school in 6th grade, and in 7th grade, he started at started at AMY 5. Vincent is bused. He goes to Edmonds and he gets his bus there and meets a bunch of kids that live in that neighborhood, and there's been problems with the bus, but I think we've dealt with all that. And it's basically not a School District -- I mean, it is our problem, it's the bus company, and they're trying their best. And all the welfare-to-work people should be watching this because there's jobs there 2545 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. -- $11, $12, $13 an hour for bus drivers. Now, it's not easy for people who may be getting off welfare, but it's something to get at. You know, you got to get that license, special license. But the bus company will actually reimburse you get all your licenses and everything. They're really searching to have people. But I want to tell you, as a person I never stepped -- I never stepped a foot inside a public school. As a student, I went from grade 1 to 12 to Catholic school, so I had no idea how the public school worked, had no idea -- I mean, I heard stories, you know, heard stories of the bogeyman, and it's actually a good system. But I think one of the problems are when we get here, and it's a problem with your administration, and you might not see it as a problem is, you're such a zealot for education. And if you know anything about me, I don't pull any punches. The Council President talked to me Friday about Saturday and said it's something I was having. You always know what Rick's going to say. Well, I'm going to say this, if your 2546 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. feelings are hurt, you'll get over it 'cause you're an old -- you know, you've been around -- I'm not going to say you're an old guy, but you've been around. (Laughter.)
All right, but what happens here is, you are so into this education thing -- and rightfully so because you are the guy that they picked to be here, whether we liked you or not. You're here and you're doing a swell job. But I will tell you, there is no way I would ever want your job or I would ever dream about wanting your job. (Laughter.)
Well, because it's like being a City Councilman -- you can't make everybody happy. I think one of the problems of your administration is you're a bad politician -- and 2547 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. you get so -- and you think and you know in your mind what you're doing is the right thing, but you can't understand why Councilman Ortiz or Councilman Blackwell or Councilwoman Verna or Nutter or Longstreth or Rizzo or Kenney, all of us, well, we think we're doing the right thing too. And we have that cycle every four years that they call "an election," and not that we play for elections, but as a person who never went to public school. I'm learning more about public schools than I ever wanted to learn. I mean, it isn't easy being a teacher in public schools. But one of my main concerns and before my time runs out, is I really watched when I went down there. And when Vince went there, it wasn't structured enough for Vince, and Vince is a very smart -- and amy5's a little looser than your regular public school would be, there's a little more freedom. The principal there, Miss Peacock's a great person. Dennis Dorfman, a great vice principal. He calls my house now -- I think he's just calling my house when Vince does because I'm 2548 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. a City Councilman. Well, I found out from the other parents -- which, if I was the vice principal or principal and there was a City Councilman's child in my school, I would certainly call that City Councilman just because how we could belabor your presence here longer than you already have to be, once a year. Only once a year do we get to talk to you with your undivided attention, so I'm getting my three minutes' worth, okay? (Laughter.)
Now, I find out that Dorfman and Peacock do this for everybody, so it's real hard to find the bad guy -- if there is a bad guy. So, obviously, you're the bad guy. You know, you're like John F. Kennedy at the Bay of Pigs. You may not have been responsible for what happened before you, but you're the President, you're the Superintendent, you're the guy. So when we talk about those things not on the microphone on public record, when I tell you I have a problem with something your principals may or may not be doing, perception is 2549 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. reality in my world. They, too, are zealous for education, and rightfully so. I've learned about problems at Muniz-Martine (ph.). Councilman Ortiz and I have been up there. It's so understaffed, it's a disgrace a disgrace, it's a disgrace. And we get mad when we think, Why don't these teachers want to live in our city, why do we have to make 'em, do we drop the residency requirement, what do we do? It all comes back, for me, to one thing. We've been paying a lot of attention to this charter school. I have some serious concerns about charter school. And my colleague Councilwoman Blackwell, who's the Chairman of Education Committee, we've had these conversations. And knowing how big her heart is, I know in her heart she really wants to work everything out, and that's the beauty of Councilman Blackwell. I want to work everything out too, but I come from a little different perspective -- not much different than hers. The teachers in these charter schools, they don't have to get paid the money that you 2550 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. have to pay the teachers that have contracts with PFT, correct? How do they get paid? They're not members of the Teachers Union, right?
They can get more or less. So that's an advantage to them anyhow. So eventually, we're funding your competition. I mean, if it's if cable TV or if it's education, we're funding your competition. And I know the people that go to the charter schools and the people that want to have the charter schools have the greatest intentions in the world, but eventually, just like this transportation issue, how long can you fund your competition? When is it a level playing field? I mean, are all these principals, do they go through the scrutiny that the principals have to go through it like Miss Peacock had to go through it to be the principal at AMY 5? I mean, I don't know. Is that all something we have to learn from the State? Do we need some kind of combined hearings? I just want the playing level to be 2551 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. level. It's not because I'm a union guy, and it's not because I'm a David Hornbeck fan; it's because I'm a fan of my son Vincent and all the people who have children and entrusted 'em to the Philadelphia School District. Because it's only going to get bigger -- I'm not going to say "worse" -- as the Catholic schools price themselves off the market, and they will, they will. Again, you're talking to a guy years 12 Catholic school, never foreseeing that I would have to send my children to public schools. They're pricing theirself out of the market. Hopefully, they won't. Now, if the Cardinal calls, Council President, tell him I'm not here. But I mean, is that what we're doing with this charter school? Somebody comes up with a good idea and everybody runs around? I mean, there's a charter school building for building trades that I probably could have went to if I'd have known about that then. You went a half day to North Catholic, and the other half, you went shared time to Mastbaum to learn to be a carpenter or a electrician or a sheet-metal worker. 2552 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. I mean, there's a charter school now for probably Councilman Cohen could have went to to be a labor lawyer. They have an international charter school. If you were a young person in high school, Councilman Cohen probably could be there. There's ones that Councilman Ortiz or Councilman Longstreth would have -- is there a charter school for millionaires, Councilman Longstreth? (Laughter.)
He would be there, he would be there if there was one. But is this what we're after? How do we settle this charter-school thing? I mean, I could be as fair as you could be. And, again, it's -- I'm not playing you; I just don't see -- if we're going to provide transportation for people that chose to send their kids to charter school, and they did it with great intentions, do have to provide transportation to all the people 2553 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. that Councilman Nutter was concerned about and Councilman Blackwell with the citywide schools?
Well, I think you're correct that charter schools pose a very significant challenge -- not in the sense of competition, that doesn't worry me at all, but in the sense of the level playing field. And if those who presently are the policy-makers and the elected officials on the whole are prepared to pay more attention to the health and well-being of charter schools and less attention to the health and well-being of public schools, then the vast majority of kids will be dis-served by that process. If we have in contrast, as you say, a level playing field, let the competition begin. I have no problem with that at all. It's just that we find ourselves at a disadvantages vis-a-vis the suburbs vis-a-vis, in many instances, if we begin to give special treatment to the charter schools, even the charter school.
Last thing I'll say. There's this charter school, and Councilman Ortiz is familiar with it, down at 4th and York. 2554 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. It was around before charter schools -- Community High School. And Joe Paretta (ph.), who's a neighbor of mine, was the principal there. And I've been there many times. And, you know, when charter schools first started, Joe was way ahead of the curve. And I'm sure he became a charter school -- in fact, he has, but he was doing things 15, years ago that people are starting to think 10 about doing now. 11 But this whole education dilemma, if 12 you want to call it "a dilemma," and I'm choosing 13 my words carefully is -- I just don't know where 14 it ends. I mean, we want to do well for our 15 children, of course, we want to be able for to 16 them to do well on the SAT-9s. And I have another 17 son that went to private school, he's in 12th 18 grade, and he's getting ready to go to college, so 19 I'm going through that. 20 I just don't understand where this all ends eventually.
Well, let me just very briefly suggest to you that while the notion of a variety -- private, charter, home school, etc. -- is and will continue there, the fact is that when 2555 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. all is said and done, the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of the children in Philadelphia are going to go to the Philadelphia School District. I mean, that's just a plain fact. And over the last four years, because of all the things I've otherwise described to you and the engagement of lots of partners, including City Council, the teachers and principals and parents and kids of the District are making dramatic achievement progress. And so I would argue that, one, part of where it all needs to go to is to provide the School District and teachers and principals the kinds of support they need to continue that achievement growth. And that's what, at this moment in the larger picture, is not getting much attention. It's all the little boutique stuff off to the side.
Mm-hmm, like the banking industry when that happened five, six years ago.
All those boutique banks closed, by the way, most of them. 2556 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. And my last thing is a point of information to Councilman Rizzo. Councilman, when my son turned years old two weeks ago, the day 5 before he turned 18, he got a card from the United 6 States government -- Selective Service. So they 7 knew when he was born, 18 years before, so I'm 8 sure there's somebody somewhere that knows that 9 8-year-olds and 9-year-olds are around. 10 Now, that's not something else for 11 Dr. Hornbeck to do, obviously, but there's 12 somebody that has this information. 'Cause, sure 13 enough, they before he turned 18, that thing -- it 14 was the Selective Service. 15 Thank you. Thank you. 16
Thank you. 17 The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter. 18
Thank you, Madam Chair. Very quickly, Dr. Hornbeck, when did the first round of charter schools get approved, what year was that?
So it was for September of '97. 2557 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Okay. If you would forward through the Chair, I would like to see a copy of the materials or the packages that were given to the initial applicants, the '97 round. Then I'd like to see the '98 round, then I'd like to see the latest round. And I'd like to see dated documents specific to the issue of transportation. I would like to know what the applicants were told back at that time.
We will give you that and follow-up data when we were asked for clarification.
Okay. So I'd like 2558 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. to see the materials that actually went out and what was returned. I assume they had to sign applications and send them back in and all of that?
Thank you, Madame President. I'm a bit intrigued by part of the discussion that was ongoing between Councilman Kenney and myself before. And he pointed out a school -- I didn't get the name of it -- at 24th and Lehigh. I believe he said it was a parochial school that was occupied, I think he said, by 90 or 95 percent young African-American students from a poor economic background who felt that they had no adequate public school to go to; and for non-religious reasons, picked the parochial school. I don't know the reason they picked that one in particular. But I was pretty quick in answering, 2559 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. saying I think that if such a situation exists, we've got to get a hold of the School District and say there's a problem, what can we do about it? Then I had to leave for an emergency call. And while I was walking up and down, it struck me, Well, what would the School District do about it? Because that's the way I like to and I think most Councilmembers like to deal with the problems. If a problem comes up, like the President mentioned certain schools with particular problems, I've always felt that the School District makes a very real effort to deal with problems that come to their attention. It seems to me that would be an appropriate way. What would the School District do? Are you familiar with that school? Has it been raised before, that situation?
Would you be in a position to deal with that? Would that be an appropriate way, the way I suggested to Councilman Kenney? Because I'd like to know why a cluster 2560 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. of kids in any area of the City -- but I'm very familiar with that area, 'cause it's very close to where Connie Mack Stadium is. It's --
I don't mean to interrupt you, Councilman, but think there are a number of schools throughout the City as Councilman Kenney described.
Well, that's the one he referred to in the cross discussion between him and me, so I would just like to deal with that one. I know nothing about --
Well, you said you didn't know how many there were; I'm just saying to you that there are a number of such schools throughout the City.
Well, I know there are, you know, many people that lose their gas for different reasons, but there's nothing any Councilmember can do about helping to restore the gas service or even making a decision about it unless it comes to our attention. This school has now come to my attention. I don't know about the others, but I would like to know what would we do in such a 2561 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. case? And how would the School District approach it? And if we solve that, then I'll ask Councilman Kenney what other school does he have in mind? But I'd like to see the School District develop one. If you don't have an approach that deals with that, I'd like to see that kind of approach developed.
Well, if there is a school where there is some acute problem that makes the conditions or the circumstances of that school different from the general challenges that schools are facing, then we would attempt to solve the problems of that school.
Wouldn't you say, after you heard that interchange between Councilman Kenney and myself, wouldn't it be right for the School District to call him and say, What's the name of the school? Unless you already know what it is. And we'd like meet with the parents to find out what the problem is because we think there are public schools in the area, you know, that provide a good education. If there are particular problems, we would like to deal with 2562 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. them.
Well, what I was going to say is that the schools to which that school and I think the schools to which President Verna refer, many of the parents are responding to both the reality and the perception, a history, a reputation, and even a present-day reality of our schools having the kind of conditions that the parents don't want to send their kids to. And our response to that is Children Achieving. And our response to it is, in fact, working. We are not picking out one particular school and only focussing on that school. But instead, our attention is directed toward altering those conditions that have led thousands of people to -- I mean, there are many, many -- there are 20,000 people that have left the City of Philadelphia in the last 30 years, most of whom left because of the public schools, and they all went out to the suburbs. And so lots of those suburban schools are reflecting exactly the same thing Councilman Kenney said exists at 24th and Lehigh. 2563 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. And unless or until this city gets its act together and the State gets its act together in terms of the level of education here and most kids begin to perform at a level that leads to their success in college or on the job, we're going to continue to have this sort of -- these kinds of challenges. Now, happily, we know that what we're doing is beginning to work, and we're going to continue down that process. Now, if it were the case -- and quite frankly, I'll give you an example of a school where, in some ways, it is the case. There are people in disproportionate numbers who are not going to Olney High School in the last several years because they don't think they can get the kind of education there that they want their children to have. But we have tried -- as I said yesterday, that's probably the single most difficult school situation that I think exists in Philadelphia. And we've tried a number of crisis-oriented ways of dealing with that -- to date in terms of the results, not successfully. Although, as I suggested yesterday, there are some 2564 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. signs that that is changing. But if there is an acute crisis -- 4 other schools that I mentioned yesterday who, on 5 the performance index, didn't do well. We put 6 them if a special group, we gave them special 7 support. And seven of them responded to it 8 terrifically and met their performance target, 9 four others made improvement, and two didn't. So 10 we're still in there. 11 So in places that are having a 12 particularly difficult time, we have a way of 13 identifying those schools, and we send special teams of people in to change the way they do business, we sometimes change staff. But we face in Philadelphia -- and that's what we're up to across the board, trying to create a situation where most kids go to school, feeling like they are going to learn what they need to learn to read and do math and do science well and graduate and get a good job. So there are those two kinds of approaches. There's the crisis one on the one hand, where we send special teams of people in; and then there's the "we've-got-to-get-about-this- 2565 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. business-of-improving-School-District" on the other hand. We are at work on both of those fronts.
But it seems to me, you know, in hearing you, and I agree with most of what you say, it seems to me -- 'cause I use the same thing in Council. I understood that this small exchange between the Council President and myself, we can't go solving all the problems. But when we know one exists, it always acts as a challenge to me. I'd like to at least find out all the special circumstances. Conceivably, it could be that the parents of these youngster have never had anybody from the School District that showed a real interest in their particular problem -- not the broad problems, but in their problem. I think worth it to go out and try to communicate with some of the parents, maybe some of the children. It could be a simple sort of thing that might bring about change, or it might not be. It might fit general character you're talking about. But it seems to me instead of saying that's part of the overall problem, once we know 2566 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. it exists, isn't it worth at least sending some people out to try find out what are the circumstances? Because I believe, sir, that probably there are good schools in that area that do a good job of teaching, and that he we might be able to deal with that situation.
Well, what we will do is get in touch Councilman Kenney's office and find out more information about this. Whether or not it would be appropriate to call a general meeting of parents in an Archdiocesan school to see how we could lure them back directly into the public schools or not, I'm a little nervous about that.
Well, I think you're right in watching that. But in situations which develop in real life and in our Council activities, we often have to find one person, you know, that we can talk to and begin to get a picture. I don't mean trying to alert people to leave Archdiocesan schools. I'm just saying I would look at this as maybe it's a failure of the public school system; maybe it's not. Maybe there are certain conditions having nothing to do with 2567 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. the schools that have resulted in this happening. But I would want to know why, and I just think it might be worth the while to find out. I would trust your judgment and the judgment of the School District once you got the information in whatever way you could. And I think Councilman Kenney would probably be very useful in getting information. I think it's a problem that cries out to be fixed. Maybe the fixing has to come, as you suggest, you know, in this other process of fixing everything. But maybe this school might be amenable to something that can be done quickly and effectively -- not to hurt the Archdiocesan school, I don't want to do that at all, but to show the ability of the public school system in meeting the particular needs. Thank you. That's the only thing, I just wanted to raise that for your consideration.
I never had a chance to ask a question today. Superintendent, let me ask you, what is the budget for the Able Academies? And do you 2568 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. think that the Able Academies have really been successful?
Mr. Santilli will get the budget for them. As I said yesterday, I think that the Able Academies have not met all of our expectations, that an institution needs to exist for kids to who have particularly severe 10 behavioral problems of the kind of the kids that 11 get sent to Able Academies. And for the first 12 time in the School District's history, we 13 responded to that need, but we continue to examine 14 the actual practice of Able Academies in 15 continuing to try to meet the needs of those students better. Yesterday, you asked if psychologists, for example, were available to the Able Academies, and we determined that the first of this school year that we didn't have enough psychological services available so we increased that. So it's an example of our continual reexamination of the level of support for the Able Academies in how successful we're being.
I do recall 2569 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. -- I don't know whether it was last year or the year before -- before one of the school budget hearings, I was very curious about the Able Academies. I called Councilwoman Blackwell, and we visited one of the sites. And when I questioned the teacher if they had a psychologist going into the site to talk to the children, of course, he didn't answer me at first. And when I pressed the issue, he said, Well, we have them fill out papers. I don't think that's how we address the problems of the children that were there.
Can I have the budget for the Able Academies, please?
That includes the instruction at the Able Academies and the --
How about the rental? 2570 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
Instruction, yes. Instruction. That's at the middle-school level.
How many teachers do you have at the six sites? 'Cause the one site that we visited, I believe there were two teachers.
There are staff there 15 altogether at the middle school, and I'll get you 16 a breakdown of which ones are there. One second. 17 There are 18 classroom teachers, 4 18 classroom assistants, and 3 counselors projected 19 for next year. 20
25, it's the same for 23 this year. There are 25 staff altogether. 24
And how much 25 are we paying for rental? 2571 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST.
I'd have to add that up by hand here, if you'll just bear with me one second.
For the six? I don't know exactly what the six facilities are.
We had six last year, I think, or the year before.
Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)
Is there anyone else who wishes to testify? (No response.)
Seeing none, the committee stands in recess until tomorrow, 2572 3/2/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. Wednesday, March the 3rd, at p.m. 3
Thank you. (Adjourned at 1:07 p.m.) - - - 2573 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, March 2, 1999, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE BUDGET HEARINGS BILL NO. 990026, 990027, 990028 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter