Why don't we put your whole case on it?
Everybody has a question.
All right.
i mean i'm not on the side plane hold on
hi could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer
yes uh kim wyatt k-i-m-w-y-a-t-t do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and
nothing but the truth i do please proceed counsel hi kim um tell us your position who you work for
I'm the principal development lead for Chick-fil-A in the state of, for the state of Pennsylvania.
And I'm looking for the site plan.
I'll be.
Yeah, sure.
so kim does this reflect the site plan yes it does i mean it is a site plan um and um the store
is not a uh is not is or is not a prototype type of store this is a prototype okay and as to the
drive-through um and we'll hear more from that later uh the drives through um go in this
direction and they come to an area where people place their orders that fair to say yes that's
And one of the refusals say that the stacking lanes have to have, we'll call it a raised curb or a hard separation.
Do you understand that, what that means?
And you're aware of that?
And do any of the Chick-fil-A drive-thru operations have that raised curb?
No, we do not.
So could you explain what happens when a customer drives through the drive lane?
Absolutely.
So many of you are probably familiar with our drive throughs.
And when we have these dual lanes, what we do is we have a three foot stripe for a little bit more into the mic.
Just a little. OK, better. That's much better.
Right. So we'll have dual lanes and for each lane, there'll be a three foot striped area, kind of a safety zone so that if there are exceptional number of customers waiting in line,
we'll be able to deploy some of our employees they'll have safety vests and they will work
in those lanes to get orders and the idea is that if we can if we can get the kitchen
caught up then we'll be able to move customers through the process a lot quicker and that
results in a lot less time and fewer or no backups so to have a raised curve between the two would
actually um introduce a trip hazard for those associates then um so as a rule um in all of
these multi-lane drive-throughs that we have we we typically do not ever we've never had a race
curve or any type of physical element of that nature and the greeters you have how do they
function when yeah they are um they're in the safety vest they've got the ipads and they're
you know they're out there trying to have a human human connection even with our customers that are
coming through the drive-thru, so taking orders and greeting customers.
So it's fair to say this design works safely?
It does.
It does.
Thank you.
Days and hours of operation?
It's up to the operator, but typically 6 a.m. to 10 p.m., six days a week.
And where's the trash stored?
It's in that.
We have a trash enclosure.
Yes, it's in the rear of the building.
That's very close to where trash will come out, and it will be fully enclosed in brick
matching the building.
okay and i mentioned there's some outdoor seating yes sir there is there's very little
but it's um it's yes correct it's near the order can be okay thank you thank you
sir could you please state your name and spell for the stock of her sure uh retro liberty r-h-e-t-t
c-h-i-o-i-b-e-r-t-i you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
i do counsel uh hi brad uh could you tell the board uh your position
Council. Hi, Brett. Could you tell the board your position we work for? Sure. My name is
Retro Liberti. I'm with Collier's Engineering and Design, and I run our Philadelphia office.
And you're familiar with these plans? Yes. Okay. And you heard my testimony regarding
the stacking lanes so far. Would you agree it's true and accurate? I do agree. And would
adopt it as your own? Yes. Okay. And having been familiar with the plans, would you describe
the design of the stacking lanes sure the stacking lanes circulate around the building
you enter on the south side of the property where ron's cursor is you make a right hand turn
go through the order point board which is the rectangular shape on the south side of that
rolling all right that's all right uh and then you'll circulate north uh you'll turn left which
is to the west side pick up your meal to drive through window and exit and so the refusal what
does the code say for the for the medians here uh they require a raised uh medium or landscaped or
curbed area and we do have a separation here but it's not raised that's correct we have striping
is separation also the menu boards okay and coupled with what miss wyatt had testified to
about the greeters and all is it your opinion that this is a safe design yes it is and it would
meet the uh the intent and the spirit of the code yes it means okay now the second refusal has to do
with um the stacking lanes being less than 20 feet from the nearest lot line is that correct
that's correct but it's true though that the lot line is our lot line of parcel number two
And there's no building that clearly on the other side of that lot line?
Correct.
And so, but for the fact that these lots were separated for financing purposes, we would have complied with that refusal.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
And was a traffic study performed?
Yes, a traffic study was performed.
And did it include the drive-through and the drive-through issues?
Yes, it did.
And was there any conclusion that this was an unsafe design?
uh there was nothing related to being not being safe okay thank you that's all i have for the
witnesses okay if there's any questions questions from the board for any of the witnesses
nope just on the document could you just point out any landscaping that you'll have on the site
sure you want to get a landscaping pine uh you could just uh sure
there uh we meet the uh 10 percent minimum landscape requirements we're actually providing
18 percent so we're exceeding what the city requires for landscaping if you see the circles
throughout there's uh I'd say the landscaping is extremely robust
just a quick question does Chick-fil-a have anything like this any other place in the city
um do you want to
go I can't I can't
we approved that one second come on up go ahead the other location so chairman are you asking
if all the chick-fil-a's have the design I'm just curious this this design that we're using here
have you used it anywhere else in the city in the city no not this particular prototype but
this um generation of prototype will be reflected in any of the new development okay this is like
this is our latest and greatest so um obviously the project on west oregon is a drive-through
only it's a little bit different but those are those are both the same generation prototype
design is the same that we presented to the board a few months ago exactly yes design's the same
exactly all right questions anyone else on the board yeah i have a question about the so how many
order like how many call boxes are there to do orders there's two menu boards there's two okay
and it's not going to be staff like there's not going to be people out there there if if there's
customers yes there there will be during certain times of the day where it makes sense yes so i
guess my question is like you don't have that long of a runway like i've seen at some of your other
locations what's going to happen if this gets backed up i know at a lot of your other locations
you sort of have the designated parking spaces where the staff will come in and out and what's
the plan for congestion here right um smaller and another another benefit of having a kind of our
latest is that you've got ample stack here there's there's 35 cars um that we've got um room for and
then if needed the operator can block off that access point between us and wawa and we could
potentially stack even further on our site um you know being able to fully contain any customers if
that were to happen um but the idea is that we'll have we'll have associates out with the ipads and
But the idea is that we'll have associates out with the iPads and they can help the kitchen, you know, kind of like stack those orders so we can be moving customers off site. And then also during any kind of event, be it grand opening or other event where we think something might have an overflow might happen. Operators are always, they really like to work with local law enforcement and make sure everything and everyone is very safe and contained.
they can help.
so my second question is is there any point where the inside um closes for ordering any point where
like the inside of the like at the point where chick-fil-a is open but you can't go inside and
make an order inside at the counter no if we're open so if you're open people can always get
inside yeah it's the same for in dine-in or or um would it be because i know there's some other
fast food locations where the inside will close and then you've got people walking
yeah I'm in the line to try to make orders and I could see that being an issue I am not aware of
that half of us ever splitting hours like that thank you and what are the hours typically there's
6 a.m to 10 p.m but it really depends um it's really up to the owner um operator and the
neighborhood and what they need and what they like but all right normally that's it yeah okay thank
you thank you all right um questions from our attorney we better get our attorney in here
not at this time mr questions or comments from the virtual audience
there are no hands chair planning commission like you want me to close for a minute
go ahead okay thanks i just want to point out that we do have a letter from the old
Richmond Civic Association we had our meeting on October 21st and they support the design we believe
the proposed use of the adjacent uses the current condition and this design which is a new nationwide
design will create a not necessary hardship if unable to use it however the granting of the
variance relief will cause no detrimental impacts on the public health safety welfare especially
the safety and the traffic with regard to the traffic lane and believe that the refusal for
20 foot setback is really a non-issue at this point but thank you planning commission amy boy
with the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning at this
location from the current ca2 commercial auto oriented the appellant has not demonstrated
that there are unique physical conditions or circumstances of the property that would
prevent it from being used in conformance with the zoning code the planning commission recommends
the board deny their requested variances for separation of stacking lanes and stacking lane
setback okay um mi2025-005-347-2545 aromingo avenue i vote yes michael johns my vote is yes
cheryl gaston my vote is yes tennetta graham my vote is yes ronnie mcadams my vote is yes
my vote is yes thank you thank you thank you mr knockamson are you ready
take your time
what are we doing it's going to take hold the computer oh oh man oh my god no computer
let me see where i am here
so we're back number two that's correct that's correct mr chair so
M-I-2025-005-215-1024 South 6th Street.
Alan Nockamson is the attorney.
Alan, did I swear in before you?
No, I don't.
Could you state your name and spell it?
Alan Nockamson.
A-L-A-N, last name Nockamson, N-O-C-H-U-M-S-O-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Could you identify your client, your relationship to the property?
Yeah, to my left is Vincent Fahm, one of the owners of the property.
All right, and I think I mentioned this before, Bella Vista has a letter of non-opposition,
and there's a letter of non-opposition from Council Member Squilla,
and 12 signatures from neighbors, and our vice chair has a few questions.
All right, thank you.
Good afternoon.
Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing?
Yes, we have.
And do you wait to read another refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
okay thank you uh shake your screen and begin well i think mr goldberg is going to need to
he's got it up there oh he already has it up there wow look at that all right so luckily
and i say that a lot this a lot we have three straightforward projects today the first of which
is say that for most projects i i do 1024 south 6th street um you know it's a proposed duplex
um we've made significant changes based on community input over multiple community means
All right, so let's just go quickly over the exhibits. We have 12 exhibits. Let's go to the next page.
We have 12 exhibits. We'll start, you know, let's go to the next page. It's the notice of refusal. So we have just a refusal for use. This property is a rather large property of almost 1,100 square feet. Go to the next page. And we're seeking a refusal because of the use. We have a letter of non-opposition from the Bella Vista Neighbors Association.
So, we met with them over the course of two separate meetings.
We made significant changes to this project.
We increased the occupied area to, or reduced the occupied area to 649 square feet.
We increased the size of the rear yard setback to 23 feet 9 inches, and we reduced the height
of the property to 32 feet high from the roof line, and we also inversed the building layout.
to these are all requests to the community based on that we received support not just from the
executive board of the bella vista neighbors association but we also received support from
the nearby community as well it's not out of character to have multi-family here before we
shared a screen 1027 1025 1021 11 1005 1001 all on this block have uh two units so we have a if
this board feels so inclined to approve this zony variance request we would ask that they do it with
these revised plans again we made changes to the occupied area and other things and here are the
plans themselves next page we also did outreach as well to the to the community and you know that's
our petition of support next page um and again as i indicated there are one two three four five
examples on this block all duplexes um the this community changed its um zoning from originally
this property was rm1 to rsa5 against the community's um interaction so the community
actually wanted to keep this as an rm1 property so you can see across the street there are rm1
properties and we're surrounded by you know we're on washington avenue which is cmx2 as well uh