after the simone building there's a blue and white building and there's a tree
uh so that's the next building that's adjacent after that uh none of these buildings are are
all these buildings have been there for years is that correct yes sir and you got approval
for your digital sign, I believe, in 2016. Is that correct? Yes, we did. Okay. Now,
before we get to that, we'll just show one more picture, number 50. And then that just shows you
that as you get further and closer to Spring Garden, there's some trees that are planted
along your side of the walk, your side of the sidewalk. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. And there
There is parking on one. I guess it's the west side of of Second Street and a bike lane on the east side of Second Street.
That's correct. OK, let's go to what was our after it was the show, the 2015 zoning permit application.
Keep going down. It'll be after the pictures or maybe we had to split.
We had to split our presentation in half because it was too big, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
So I think that we have to go to our second package to that's our zoning notice and the refusals.
We'll get to that. Keep going. All right. Well, let's stop here for a second.
This is an aerial, Joe, that shows. Can you raise it up just a little bit on the screen, Nico?
Go up so you can see the lettering, the marking that I put on the exhibit.
Yes. There we go. Okay. So if you look at this exhibit and it shows the marks, the sign, is that where your existing sign is?
That's correct.
And it's a single face sign oriented towards cars coming down southbound on I-95. Isn't that correct?
Yes, sir.
And in fact, isn't it true that this sign is principally intended to be viewed by drivers who are traveling on I-95 or on Callow Hill?
Isn't it also true that one of the refusals you got was that the principal view that was intended to be viewed from principal street, it was intended to be viewed from what was second street.
And that because of that, your sign, bottom of your sign is 28 feet high, or it can only be 25 feet higher than the street is intended to be viewed from.
Isn't that what we've got a refusal for?
Yes, sir.
But it's clear that your intention has been to have this sign as it existed be viewed by the off ramp or by the highway of I-95.
Correct?
Now, Nico, go show that little white band in the middle of the roadway to the right.
Keep going.
This little, that's it.
That, Joe, can you tell us what that is?
That's the Spring Garden Elevated Stop and Station.
Okay. So that acts as, besides that little, and then we've got the little grassy plot that you were talking about along the west, the east side, rather, of Second Street that we had, where Nico's got the little hand right now. That is that whole berm that supports the off-ramp for Callow Hill. Is that correct?
So that acts as, besides.
Yes, sir.
Okay. And from the elevation of your sign, isn't the height of the ramp and especially I-95 higher, basically, than your sign?
Definitely.
Right. And even if we – our existing sign, Joe, is that the dimensions are 8 by 17. Isn't that correct?
Yes, sir.
And that's a digital sign that shines 24 hours, seven days a week. Is that correct?
Yes, it is.
And over the years since 2016, since you've had it up, and you've had the message has been about SEPTA and your ridership and your membership, have there been any complaints to you about the sign?
Not one.
Okay. And Joe, if I was trying to drive, have you driven northbound on I-95 in that area past your headquarters?
Most days, yes.
Okay. If you were driving, as you see, there's a car that's headed northbound to the right.
Nico, if you could show that little car right there.
First of all, to get to there, to the right below, on the right-hand side, there's a freestanding billboard. Isn't that correct?
Yes, there is.
And that's in the parking lot, I guess, of where, for lack of a better landmark, that's where Delilah's is located.
Correct, Joe?
Delilah's and there's a car rental place there and a couple other businesses.
And in fact, if you go up further, this lot seems to have a second billboard right at the intersection of I-90, where I-95 overhangs and Spring Garden comes in.
Correct?
Right.
Directly across from the Quaint Oak Bank.
Right.
Right. So there are already two freestanding static billboards over on that side, I believe. Is that correct?
Okay. Now, but again, let's get back. If I'm traveling northbound on I-95 where that car is, am I able to even see your sign because of the elevation of the L and the depth and the drop to where your property is?
No, in fact, there's a Jersey barrier and a cyclone fence and then the raised track, the track itself is elevated.
Our whole property is pretty invisible from that stretch.
Okay, so basically, the sign as it exists today, and as it is proposed, since it's going to stay on the roof, and it's going to stay in that same location, isn't it, Joe?
Exact same location.
And it's going to stay in the same angle and orientation. Isn't that correct? And we'll get into that with Mr. Tantella, Mr. Chairman and members, members of the board.
And so this this sign, even after even if we were given permission to make it to do other things besides use it the way the union's been using it all these years, is practically not visible from anybody headed northbound on I-95 due to the physical characteristics of the surrounding neighborhood.
Correct. And the roadway. That's correct.
Okay. Now, Nate, go to where our sign is, and let's go up to the 2nd and Spring Garden intersection, and then we go, if we go up, then we go up towards the little north along 2nd Street, go up to Fairmount, and we'll show you, when we get to the zoning map that we'll have with Mr. Tantella, you'll see that to the right, that higher level building is maybe where you have the very first
on Fairmount residentially zoned properties.
And so from that distance, given that distance,
and I think we'll be able to show we're at 860 feet
and we are supposed to be at least 1,000 feet
from a residentially zoned property.
Your sign is not visible even from that location, is it?
The sign is not visible by any single residential unit
in the entire area.
In fact, Joe, isn't it, in your experiences, you've driven southbound on 95, I guess, to get off and go to the Union Hall or just in your travels.
There is a very limited window of where even your sign is visible.
Isn't that correct?
It's only visible as you approach the Cal Hill exit.
It's only visible as you approach the Callahill exit.
You can see it for a brief period on 95 and as you come down the Callahill ramp, as well as the Spring Garden Street Station.
You can see
That's it.
Okay, let's go to Anika.
Go show the next aerial.
Okay, as you can see, can you show where the sign is for everybody?
Up at the top left.
So there's our property. There's our sign. Same orientation. Joe, what we're going to be doing is the sign is going to is proposed to go from the 8 by 17 to go to 12.33 by 31 feet. Isn't that correct?
Yes, sir.
So we're going from about 142 square feet to maybe about 383 square feet.
But everybody can check my math.
It wasn't my strong suit.
But as you can see, as you go, you can see more of the physical characteristics of what Joe described,
especially for the northbound lanes of I-95 and the physical barriers presented by the roadway.
And then as you go, so that you can see that it's just not, I mean, I know there's going to be some, I guess, discussion about what digital signs impact is.
But this board has to keep in mind, Joe, that you already have a digital sign.
Isn't that correct?
Yes, sir, we do.
And over the years, nobody has complained about your digital signs.
Not one complaint.
Now, again, looking, this is sort of, this is looking west on Spring Garden Street, and you can see the width of Spring Garden Street, the surrounding uses, and again, if you're coming north on, west on Spring Garden Street, and you're east of the overhang of 95, you really can't see the sign at all, correct?
And then if you're driving at the intersection of where the hand is right now, which is at 2nd and Spring Garden, your visibility is, as we've shown in the pictures, 44 through 50, as we got closer to Spring Garden Street, gets limited.
Isn't that correct?
You cannot really see it until you turn onto 2nd Street and travel a short distance.
Okay. So that's been in your experiences driving over the years. And how long has the union been there for our headquarters?
We moved there in 2008.
Okay. And then let's go to the next one, Nico, which is 8B, 8A3. Well, did you have C? That's D. Did we do? There's C. Okay, that was C.
that we have here's the and there there's the um the sign and we're sort of looking back from
third and spring garden over to where the sign is and uh joe if i was have you been on third and
spring uh third street behind your building and look back look back to your your roof absolutely
Absolutely. And that's where on Third Street, that's sort of where like the fire department is for the city of Philadelphia.
And also across the street is where the Federal Health and Human Services Building is located.
Yes. Fire Administration Building Health and Human Services.
Right. And if you look and try and see the back of your sign, you're not going to see it, correct?
You can't see any part of our property from that from there.
Okay. All right. Let's go. I think that's, and this is A again, and this is looking, this is A3A, another view of the sign, and you can see looking sort of northward on I-95, and as you come in and you approach and you can see that the way the sign is oriented, Joe,
it really does look like it's principally to be intended to be viewed from either that off ramp
or from the major cartway of I-95. Is that correct? Absolutely. Okay. Let's go to just
show the board, Nico, the prior approval from 2016, because that was granted by a variance.
So there was opposition. You do have a letter of opposition from Norton Liberties. They were
in opposition back in 2016. Isn't that correct? And opposed even having a, and here's the
application. And there's the notice, the refusal. I don't know if we can blow up the refusal.
blow up the refusal wait slow down go back go back and the zoning board granted a variance for
Wait, slow down. Go back, go back. And the
the digital billboard and then we have the zoning permit this is a proposed is expressly prohibited
in the zoning district uh it was a roof sign uh also the proposed digital sign is also proposed
if it's within 200 feet of any uh intersecting streets or um it's hard to read the rest unless
we can blow that up but we do have it as part of our exhibit package and
also joe so that was it it was granted in 2016 and it's been in operation because you were granted
a variance by the zoning board and there's the permit was for the installation of a digital
display roof on an existing attached structure and for signings accessory to an existing business and
professional office and that office was your was TWU local 234 headquarters correct yes sir
okay all right I don't know Mr. Chairman members of the board while we're talking about opposition
I know you said that you do have the letter from Northern Liberties but do you have the
letter from Councilman Squilla with regard to this Hillary do we have that letter I did not
receive a copy of that letter no I will we will send it to you but here is it was a letter
addressed to you, Mr. Chairman, dated June 12th, 2022. Joe, did you look at this letter and
receive this letter also? Yes, I did. And this letter says calendar ZP 2021-016198,
address 500 to 8 North 2nd. Dear Chairman Bergman, I'm writing regarding the above
caption zoning variance request. The applicant has met with Norton Liberties
Association, Neighbors Association, the local civic association. The civic has sent a letter
of no support for this project. PA Department of Transportation corresponded no opposition
to this project. I respectfully leave this decision to the board. Thank you for your
consideration of this matter. Mr. Chairman. Send it over to Hillary, please. We will.
um we will send that over to hillary now the reason i asked you about that and what mr uh
what councilman squill is is mentioning is the transportation uh pendot how did how does pendot
even get involved with you on this location where you haven't you have a this sign that you've been
using all these years what happened um mr chair uh again i i've been trying not to say anything
throughout again i'm just trying to preserve the record but i think i do have to object at this
point that any uh testimony regarding pendot or pendot's recommendation or correspondence uh
we're objecting to as hearsay uh as far as i know there is no letter from pendot in the record uh
you can correct me if i'm wrong uh certainly planning commission in the city has never seen
the letter uh and any testimony regarding uh that should not uh should not be permitted as hearsay
The witness can testify about what he told, what he said to PennDOT, but he can't talk about what PennDOT's response is.
May I respond, Mr. Chairman?
First of all, this is an administrative hearing.
The technical rules of hearsay do not apply, but here we go.
We have, it is part of our exhibit package.
We want to express how Mr. Cocchio and the union decided to even give a shot at trying to ask for a variance from the local authorities, because if you can get a variance from the local authorities, being the zoning board in the city of Philadelphia, you still have hurdles with PennDOT.
And it was really PennDOT that generated, was the genesis of what went on here when, as you will see, that Joe and the union were running a message for Pond and Lohaki.
Who are Pond and Lohaki?
I'm sure you've heard their advertisements all over, but Pond and Lohaki happened to be the disability lawyers for the union.
And they often and they without having signed a lease, they do spend a lot of time at the union instead of fighting a violation notice that was given to them because it was they were told that they were operating a already turning it into a non-accessory sign.
uh joe and everybody cease and desist but then went into and engaged in this
correspondence with joanne parkins who is mr park mr park i so i think we should be allowed
for the purpose listen one minute so for the record we don't have anything from
from pendrive i saw what you do wait a minute i saw what squilla wrote just listen to me a minute
I saw what you do. Wait a minute. I saw what Squilla wrote. Just listen to me a minute.
Why don't you ask your witness what he did? Instead of you tell, why don't you get him to
say what happened? Can I have him refer to the emails that he's traded with Ms. Parkins?
Well, why don't you let him testify to what he did? Let's hear what he did.
um if i could suggest i wouldn't if mr pollack has a copy of a letter from penn dot i would
have a trail we have a trail of emails that are there leonard because you never uh reared your
head until today we didn't we weren't you know if you had reared your head we would have sent you
over our exhibit package so we're moving on mr pollack do me a favor
ask ask your witness what he did and let's just see where we are
All right. Let's go, Nico, to the trail that we have from original violation notice that we got.
There, you're getting close. Keep, do we have, keep going, I think it's 35, 34, go back up.
Go and go to 34. There we go. This is 34, which we identified as a nine in our exhibit list.
And this is a letter that was sent. Did you receive this letter, Mr. Cochio, back on April 23rd of 2021?
Yes, I did. That was the first and only, if you want to say, I won't even call it a complaint, the first contact I had about that sign since its inception.
No one has ever reached out to us about anything about the sign until this letter arrived.
Okay. And this was from Joanne Parkins, correct? And she identifies herself as the Highway Beautification Manager for Engineering District 6 from the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation, correct?
Yes, sir.
Okay. And as it says in the second paragraph, it attaches a photograph of a sign which appears to be owned by you and which is in violation of the law. Can you show us what picture she attached, which is 35?
So that is the picture she took and sent to you. And that is what I referred to in my introduction to show that, you know, that we've made the presentation and we were telling you the truth. Here is that you were advertising Pon La Hockey. Is that correct?
Yes, sir.
And was I correct in stating that the Pon La Hockey firm is a firm that has been lawyers for disability issues for the membership of Local 234 for a number of years?
Pon La Hockey does many things with the local. That is only one of the things that they do with the local.
They handle many things for our membership.
And that came about as just more of a friendly gesture initially.