Hold on a minute.
Mr. Chair, you need to vote either yes or no.
first um sorry and then and then indicate the provisos if you just look at the commercial
area proviso as well that would be great i just lost my screen one minute i'll be right there
no problem okay here we go i'll start over mi 2022 001 690 3920 westerod avenue i vote yes proviso
revised plan one page five units. MI 2022 001 545 3922 West Rod Apto. I vote yes. Revive plans
five units. My vote is yes. Provisors on both. Thomas Holloman. My vote is yes. Provisors
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes, we'll provide those on both.
Can I just make one point?
Go ahead.
You froze.
Mr. Nackamson, you froze up.
Hello?
I'm trying to get him back, Chair.
Okay, fine.
All right.
He's coming back in as a panelist.
I just want to clarify, we do not need a second proviso regarding the vacant commercial space.
I sent you the language for that, Mr. Chair, if you wanted to include that, the proviso for the, sorry.
I sent you the language for that, Mr. Chair, if you wanted to include that.
I'm fine.
All right.
That's fine, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
MI 2022-001-570-500-08-North 2nd Street.
Stephen Pollack is the attorney.
Letter of opposition for Northern Liberties Neighborhood Association.
There we go.
It's still a good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
It is. It's a good afternoon.
It is. It is.
Please state your name and spell for the court reporter.
It's Stephen with the P-H-S-T-E-P-H-E-N, Pollock, P-O-L-L-O-C-K.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Could you identify your client and the relationship to the property?
My client is the Transportation Workers Union Local 234 of the City of Philadelphia,
the people that make SEPTA run.
Okay, and our vice chair has a few questions.
Mr. Pollard, do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
Have you emailed the exhibit packet with proof of ownership, tax compliance, a copy of the refusal or referral, photos and or plans of the property five days in advance of this hearing, and have you met with the RCO, and do you have a letter?
Yes, we do, Madam Vice Chair.
Okay, you may proceed with your screen.
Mr. Chairman, members of the board, I was going to ask, since this is a life, life begins when you as a zoning board have a billboard case.
And I see that there's the presence of Leonard Reuter, who had not identified himself prior to this to me, that he might be participating.
So I'd like to at least do a couple of things.
One, find out who Leonard is going to be representing and what position he's taking.
and then find out if there's anybody else in the virtual audience that may be wishing to oppose this
and maybe take a party status, because that will determine how we go about handling this matter
and may really prolong your hearing even more than what you may want since you have a 3.30 listing.
Mr. Reuter?
Reuter?
mr we're unable to hear you
mr reuter do you uh yeah i have a mute button in my actual thing that i didn't have can you
hear me now we can't great uh that's leonard reuter r-e-u-t-e-r senior attorney for the city
of philadelphia uh i'm not necessarily going to swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth
nothing but truth i do um as as the board may be aware uh this the administration the city that is
through the uh planning commission uh participates in every zoning hearing uh by virtue of the
planning commission's uh recommendations uh on various cases variances special exceptions um
And and that the fact that the city is a participant in every zoning hearing was recently upheld by the Commonwealth Court about a year or so ago.
So we're we're we participate in every hearing, whether there's an attorney for the city present or not.
It's my understanding that Planning Commission will be making recommendations opposing the variance here.
I don't necessarily need to put anything else in the record other than what the Planning Commission's recommendation would be, although, again, without getting ahead of ourselves, the specific request here is for a digital billboard, and that is a somewhat different animal than if it were just a billboard case, as Mr. Pollack had said, because there are special concerns with respect to digital billboards.
And we just want to make sure I'm just here and planning's here to make sure that at least the special concerns that arise in the context of digital billboards are addressed by the board.
but i'm not necessarily you know going to be questioning or cross-examining anybody uh if
and i'm i apologize mr pollack i i was not aware that you were representing the application here
but um and like i said i wouldn't necessarily have anything to say uh today anyway depending
anyway, depending on where this goes. Mr. Chairman, members of the board, I appreciate
on on where this goes uh mr chairman
Mr. Rutter's position. Leonard and I have known each other for many, many years. However, I'm
very confused as to whether he's going to, he is an attorney. He has stated, I guess, that the city
has standing and could participate as a party and could then go on and take an appeal and therefore
I want to know I, you know, I'm not going to be able to probably do like a my talking head soliloquy and then get people to affirm what I'm saying, given what's going on.
We do have Mr. Joe Coccio is the secretary treasurer of the TWU Local 234.
I have Mr. Michael Tantella, who's a professional engineer certified by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, licensed in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, who is renowned throughout the country and testified in many, many sign cases.
And I also have Mr. Jeffrey O. Jones, who is an expert in the world of billboards and also is the real estate manager for Outfront, a billboard company.
And what we are dealing with here is TWU has had since 2016 a rooftop digital sign.
And if you've ever headed south on I-95 and maybe you're getting out, going off on the Callahill exit, and you look a little bit to your right,
You might see for a little bit the date and time and the weather forecast that's on the roof, as well as some pictures that have been used to show members of the SEPTA riding community, as well as giving messages to the ridership and the public about the SEPTA system over the years.
so it is already a an existing accessory digital sign that in our documentation at our
could i could hold on a minute can i ask the question i thought leonard said he's not going
to question anybody today or anything like that he's just listening in so if he holds if he holds
to that that's fine you know but i've never known i've never known a lawyer to say i don't you know
i'm only going to ask one question they ask one question i mean i'm guilty of that myself
I think, honestly, I think at most, you know, what will probably, I mean, first of all, like, you know, I would certainly stipulate to the qualifications of Mr. Tontala.
I anticipate that we would have no objection to the other expert witnesses by Mr. Pollack.
I mean, I guess the problem here is that there are special concerns with digital billboards that we want to make sure are addressed by the board that don't come up in the
context of other billboards for what i would think would hope to be somewhat obvious reasons uh
because of the capabilities that digital billboards have and the fact that they're um you know
projecting light but but again so why don't we do this why don't you just why don't you get why
why don't we let the planning commission and you go first and we'll get you know there's a time
Hillary, where do we want to be on this?
Say that again, Mr. Chair.
Where are we on this, Hillary?
You advise the board.
Where are we on this?
Well, I think it would make sense for Mr. Pollack to just give an overview of what the case is about first.
That's right. And then if we want to hear from Mr. Reuter or planning commission sooner, I don't see a problem with that.
Just to get to the kind of the nuts and bolts of the issues of the case, that would be fine.
But I think we should start with Mr. Pollack. Mr. Pollack, are you OK with that?
I just well, the question again becomes, are we building a record, you know, and is this a record that that we are making?
if I'm just going to be a talking head and saying what's going on and having it adopted,
or at least giving us a chance to do a summary, more like you're in front of a mediation or an
arbitration than you are in front of a hearing panel. I mean, both Leonard and I have been up
to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court on records made below. But I'm just saying, I'm very concerned
if we could do those openings and make our presentations,
but then I don't want to be foreclosed
from presenting witnesses.
Mr. Pollack, I want you to start the case.
Are you prepared to start the case?
Yes, I am prepared to start the case.
Then let's start the case.
All right.
I would, at that point-
How do you ask your questions to Mr. Pollack?
Yes. Okay, proceed. Okay. Mr. Chairman, members of the board, I'd like to call two things. I'd like to have my associate, Nico Rialbuto, be able to share his screen.
Okay, proceed.
Mr. Chairman,
And I'd also like to be able to have Mr. Joe Koscio, who is the Secretary Treasurer for Transfer Taking Workers Union, Local 234, to be able to be seen.
And to speak.
Mr. Cochia, do we see him?
Hi, good afternoon, everyone.
Hi. Could you please state your name and spell for the court reporter?
Sure. It's Joseph C-O-C-C-I-O, Cochia.
Right. Do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Absolutely.
Please begin.
Joe, do you have a video button that you could?
I thought it was on.
I'm sorry.
I don't see you, so I don't know if that's a function of the Zoom or.
No, excuse me, Chair.
He does not need audio.
No, he needs both.
No, I didn't mean to say audio.
I mean to say video.
He does not need video?
Do he need to share a screen?
He doesn't need to share a screen, but I would like to be able to have the board see his face to be able to look at him and see who he is and not just hear a voice.
Well, why don't you start, then we'll bring him on when you're done.
In other words, we don't have the ability then to have him on at the same time as me or if I share the screen.
Is that it?
No, he only is allowed audio.
I think you'll call him as a witness when you're done, Mr. Pollock.
All right. I was hoping there was a way to integrate the signs and the exhibits and have Mr. Cochio, you know, be seen and talking because there is something to be seen about seeing in person.
But OK. All right. Mr. Cochio, I've got up in front of you a picture. Can you identify what we're looking at?
Sure. That's our front entrance on North 2nd Street, 500 North 2nd Street.
And is that the existing accessory digital sign that you have up on the property?
Yes, it is.
Okay. And the location is 500 to 08 North 2nd Street, correct?
500 to 508 North 2nd Street, correct.
Okay. So the street that we see in front of the picture is North 2nd Street, correct?
Yes, sir.
Okay. Why did the union pick this location to be located for their union headquarters?
Well, we looked long and hard for a location that provided the best access to our membership, as well as SEPTA headquarters and the Upper Darby City Government, which are our two primary employers.
And this is very close to the Spring Garden Elevated Stop, which gives us access to Frankfurt, Frankfurt Transportation Center, another large hub, the Broad Street line, as well as 69th Street, Upper Darby, and everywhere in between.
Needless to say, most of our members traverse this line and pass that building during the course of their work week, probably once or twice a week.
in some cases, much more than that. Okay. And right next door to you is, I see at 518,
there's a sign, DeSimone Auto Group. Is that your adjacent neighbor? Yes, sir. And what do they,
what kind of business do they conduct next door to you? It's an auto body repair. Okay. Nico,
can you go to slide 45? Joe, can you tell us what this slide 45 depicts?
It is on the sidewalk directly across the street. Actually, it's not much of a sidewalk. It's pretty much grass and a bike lane, but that's directly across the street from our building.
And above the grass, isn't that where the Callahill off-ramp is and also I-95 is located?
Directly behind whoever took that shot would be the Callahill off-ramp and 95 slightly above that. Yes.
okay now did you uh we'll go just show 46
just a similar view of shows that de simone next door though has uh flags uh that are attached to
their uh facade and are uh blowing in the wind in the front of your uh of second street also don't
Blowing in the wind in the front of your of Second Street also, don't they?
thing.
Yes. He has different decorations from time to time similar to that.
Yes. OK, let's go to 47.
And that's looking south on Second Street, isn't that correct?
Yes, sir. And just a little further down, that sidewalk disappears, which is what I was referring to earlier.
here. So you're talking about what's on the left side of the photo? Yes, sir. Nico, can you show
your little arrow to the left side? Yeah. So that's the sidewalk. And then the grass is sort
of like the slope for the off-ramp of Callahill. Is that correct? You got it right where the hand
is. Right. And then maybe up a little higher is obviously the roadway for I-95, correct?
Yes, sir.
Can you go to 48 for us?
That's still another view.
And now we're showing a little bit more of what's on the left hand side or across the street on 2nd Street.
Is that correct on slide 48?
And these are all these are all photos that we've designated as A81 on our exhibit list, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
and this shows again as you get is looking a little further you're headed the person taking
the shot or the shot is getting closer to spring garden street it looks like is that correct yes
okay and that's the view you can see of the sign as you are looking at it as you get a little
farther away from your property and closer to second the spring garden that's correct okay go
to 49 please we just have one more after this and this is just again another shot showing uh next