COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE, April 8, 2026

Mr. President, just one last question. My last question, I just was really trying to highlight that your TAP program is wonderful, but those that are just outside of that, the anxiety level is high, very high and getting worse. So all those efficiencies, you know, as you speak to your workers every day, let them know that this is real and that what they are doing is changing lives. So the Water Department has cited the Water Revitalization Plan and aging infrastructure as primary drivers for the current rate hikes. Can the department provide a breakdown of how these specific fee increases will accelerate the replacement of water mains and the improvement of stormwater management in the neighborhoods that have seen the highest frequency of surface disruptions? COMMISSIONER JEWELL: I think we can surely provide kind of like a map of that information. If we can do that in writing after the hearing, I think that would be great. I think it's our responsibility to be able to communicate that, so thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much. So we have a hard stop at 1:00. So it's going to be Landau, Young O'Rourke. Member Bass has stepped out.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you so much for being here. A lot has been covered. So in general, two questions for Water and two questions for Aviation. Water -- first of all, thanks, Commissioner. You bring in a fresh new light to this work. I don't know every Water Commissioner in the past, but you seem to be very, very involved and invested in change, so I appreciate that. But I wanted to talk about something fun to start, which is your Mussels Project, your Aquatic Research and Restoration Center. My son had the amazing opportunity of being an intern under the brilliant Lance Butler, working on your Mussels Project, which is a comprehensive project through so many disciplines of introducing mussels into the waterway to clean them naturally, and it's working and it's so exciting. And at some point, I'm going to actually bring a tour of all the Councilpeople down to the project because it's such an amazing sight to see. So I'm excited about that, but I wanted to ask you about what measurable improvements in water quality are expected from mussel restoration. Could this reduce long-term infrastructure or treatment costs? And how does mussel-based filtration compare in cost and effectiveness to traditional water treatment measures? And also, is the Water Department pursuing any creative approaches to improve critical infrastructure throughout the Water Department as well? COMMISSIONER JEWELL: Thank you for your son's service. And I have had the privilege of hearing Lance speak about his project and his enthusiasm is his. He's great. So, yes, we've been involved in the Mussel Project for almost a decade now and are kind of working on a scaling presently. When we do the tour, which we would love to have you all down at the Fairmount Waterworks, we can certainly jump on some history of the Water Department content while we're there and then drive up to the Manayunk Canal and see these stations that are present. I think what we're working on right now is kind of bolstering the research surrounding the reintroduction of these mollusks to our waterways in order to understand what the environmental impact of them is. We're really excited because we're hopeful that at some point we may be able to actually create a regulatory connection between mussel reintroduction and best management practices for pollutant control in our waterways in a way that can help us with a regulatory compliance need, improve the water quality on these rivers and streams that are the sources of our drinking water and potentially reduce our costs for treatment. But I think we've proved that we can grow them. We've proved that we can make them reproduce. We are in a lab now. We're proving we can do it out in the field and at the same time working with researchers to try to understand the real impacts and quantify those benefits on the environment in a way that we hope we can leverage in the future.

Excellent. Thank you. Appreciate that. I also wanted to talk to you about tech and procurement because I think last year there was a discussion about the Opal Project, which we know that the city is still working on creating. I think you just testified that you're working on a new procurement tool. Is that outside of Opal? And how can we use technology to increase the work that you're doing? What are you working on? And yesterday I asked the Streets Department about StreetSmartPHL. Curious as you've been answering the questions of my colleagues today, whether or not you're uploading information about the street closures and the emergencies in realtime to StreetSmartPHL. I still have two Aviation questions too.

Quickly, if you could respond to Councilmember Landau since the bell did ring. We have a hard stop at 1:00. We only have 10 minutes, colleagues, after this brief response. Thank you. COMMISSIONER JEWELL: So thank you for the questions. I think as far as Opal is concerned, we're a city department working under the city umbrella. We are a participant in the Opal Project. We will be prepared to utilize that system once it comes online and are hopeful that it will create some additional transparency for our staff to understand what kind of contracting resources are available for them. We have been having some conversations with Commissioner Hovey in Procurement and the Law Department about some different kind of procurement tools that we're hopeful will yield some efficiencies for the Procurement Department and some efficiencies for the Water Department and create some quicker access to contract resources on an oncall basis, and we are hopeful that we can actually kind of create dual benefits, both on the operating side and on the capital side with the same kind of contracting mechanism. It's a work in progress. We're kind of defining what the boundaries are within which we have to work from a legal perspective so that we can push forward with some -- not necessarily unique contracting tools, but things we haven't done before as a department and learn from the experience of other departments. L&I has done it to a small scale for kind of simple projects. We're looking at real maintenance work and our plants like large scale maintenance work, and even as far as water and sewer relay is trying to create some different kind of contractual agreements that allow us to access those services in a more casual way.

Just to be clear, it's an addition to Opal. Will it always be an addition to Opal? COMMISSIONER JEWELL: It's really not a procurement system as much as it is the procurement tool that we're using. So the legal document with which we're soliciting folks in order to provide us services and get them under contract with specifications, both expectations for us and them.

Okay. That's helpful. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Councilmember Landau.

Real quick, Airport?

Can you just put these two on the record because we have two other colleagues in the queue and we have nine minutes?

Okay. Thank you. So adding my voice to the chorus of very happy that ICE is out of the airport. Let's make sure that we're training our TSA staff and all of our airport staff enough of what to do when ICE is there. But I wanted to ask about the solar project. I know that there is a -- and I think there's an RFP out for a solar project right now?

Api when she was up here earlier, you may not have been present but she did talk about the RFP that's out there --

I'll follow up with you and get some more information and I'll stop right there. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Councilmember Landau. The Chair now recognizes Councilmember Young and then Councilmember O'Rourke, and then we'll officially close this round. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. First, I want to give a shout-out to Local 394 and Local 1510. I have family members who are longtime members of those Locals at the airport and in the Water Department, right, longtime family members, workers. So first question I have is regarding of course the TAP program, right, and the rate increases. So how does the TAP driven pressures, right, for these increases interact with other pending cost drivers like the PFAs, the lead service line, compliance, labor growth, debt service? How much of that is also tied into this number here? And what is the affordability outlook for customers who are not TAP-enrolled, as Councilmember Driscoll was talking about? What's the outlook for customers who are not TAP-enrolled and how do you ensure that these programs do not become financially fragile on its own due to resilience of just different cross- subsidies and other factors that are happening? COMMISSIONER JEWELL: So I'm going to pass it to my Deputy Commissioner of Finance in a moment. So we have two rate- setting processes. One is our base rates. It's like cost of service, the things that are fundamental to how we do things, paying our people, paying for services, buying equipment, funding our capital program. All of that is kind of our base rate case. And then we have the TAP rate case. That happens independently of it. And as I explained earlier, it is how we recover the revenue that is lost by discounting the cost of service for people in the TAP program. Those two things are definitely related to each other, but they're independent processes that happen independently of each other.

I just wanted to add one thing quickly.

They're related, but independent. I don't understand that. Can you describe that a little bit more?

Let me just briefly -- I will be very brief. How we set our rate looks at all of the cost incurred in running the utility. And that cost increase operating investment, capital investment elsewhere and payment on debt services. We take that cost and break it out into customer class, residential, commercial and so on. That's how we factor in the rate on how much customers can pay. Now, the second question which I thought to elaborate a little bit, there are customers who are on the borderline of affordability. They are not too low. They are not too high. And (inaudible), if I may talk for you, they have other programs like payment arrangement where if you cannot afford your bill, you can enter into some payment arrangement. PWD also has for other customer what we call the HELP program, which is if you have some financial challenges and you got to replace your lateral, we give you interest-free room until you pay over five years to be able to ease the financial burden. So that's what I wanted answer the rate-setting process, a complicated process. Now, the TAP rate is how much we've paid for people who cannot afford, so those processes are different, as the Commissioner said from the base rate which is decided and the TAP rate. For instance, in the last assessment we have estimated that 60,000 people will be enrolled in the TAP program. Our actual experience came to 65,000. Now, we are projecting 70,000 to be enrolled by FY27, so that's the increase in the rate for TAP program to cover those who cannot, for economic reasoning to afford to pay the regular bill.

All right. Madam Chair, I heard the bell, but just one statement or one question rather. So there are programs that PWD has that are interest-free programs already, right? I just want to put that on the record. You just mentioned a program that you have that is interest-free?

Yes, the HELP program, for instance, if you cannot afford to replace your service line.

Okay. I just want to put that on record because we put a bill in that would essentially prohibit interest and penalties on our water bills. And so, there's already programs that the City of Philadelphia has regarding Water that is an interest-free program. So it's not a new idea. I just want to put that out there on the record.

I apologize, but the last two minutes will be for Councilmember O'Rourke. So if you could follow up with Councilmember Young on that question, that would be helpful. Thank you so much, Councilmember Young. The Chair recognizes Councilmember O'Rourke. Thank you. Two minutes.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, Commissioner Jewell. Thank you to you and your team for being here today and for the work that you all do to keep our city running and congratulations on your relatively new appointment. I would welcome the chance to connect one-on-one soon to talk more about your vision and how Council can be in partnership or what have you. But let me get in -- I got two minutes. I want to focus my questions on affordability. Some of the stuff may have been grazed by some passing blows through other questions. I'll just try to get them out there. Hopefully you can answer them as concisely as possible. What's driving the rate increases? Philadelphians have been feeling the rate increases for a while, nearly 10% jump last September. Another one expected this year from what we're told. For a lot of folks, that's about a $7 more per bill kind of situation in terms of what it comes out to, which really adds up alongside the other rising utility costs. We have a campaign Affordable Philly Now to address some of this. Can you break down in quick and plain terms what's actually driving the increases the most right now? And where, if anywhere, you see opportunities to slow the growth moving forward? COMMISSIONER JEWELL: As quickly as possible if I can describe the trajectory of the Water Department in very large context: Cost of paying people, cost of supplies, cost of services, and then we are in a world where the infrastructure is aging so we're seeing the need for investment increasing. And also what may surprise people, we are in a world with emerging regulatory requirements that continue to push the department to make additional capital investments. And it's kind of like all of those things are stacked up on top of each other. It's a large part of why I'm so focused on the capital program right now is because a lot of it needs to invest in tanks and pipes and motors that's driving this. But people, services, equipment and capital, infrastructure investments for new and for existing and emerging regulation.

Real quick, any opportunities that you see to slow that growth, that kind of ballooning -- COMMISSIONER JEWELL: It's a double-edged sword, right. It's like if we slow investment, do we increase -- so if you take water mains, if we go back from 32 miles to miles, and I'm not saying 11 we're doing, you know, we monitor 12 the number of breaks per 100 miles. 13 That probably will yield an 14 increase in that. So we are trying 15 to work with our regulators to try 16 to see if there are some 17 sensible -- 18

19 You're looking into it? 20 COMMISSIONER JEWELL: -- 21 that we can implement. 22

All right. I want to cut across the field because the bell went and I only had two minutes. I appreciated the expansion on TAP. Lot of discussion from Member Driscoll and Member Gauthier on that, especially the move to auto- enroll folks. That's a big step forward. At the same time, we know there are still eligible residents who aren't enrolled, especially renters or folks who might not show up in existing data. What else can we be doing to reach out to those households? And how much are we currently investing in outreach and enrollment to make sure people actually get connected to the program? Let me get my other question on the record too. Maybe you can try to get all this together so that way I don't get --

30 seconds.

Yes, ma'am. We've seen across -- this is the one I really want to get out. We've seen across Pennsylvania that Act has led to 5 privatization of over two dozen 6 municipal water and sewer systems. 7 Those sales also drive up costs 8 with really dramatic rate hikes, to 9 my earlier question, some as high 10 as 167%. 11 For example, in Exeter 12 Township, average monthly water bills jumped from $43 to $114. The Pennsylvania Office of Consumer Advocate estimates that because of Act 12, Pennsylvanians are now paying an additional $85 million annually more for water and wastewater services. That's a problem for us. In fact, I've introduced legislation to prevent the privatization of Philadelphia's water system in perpetuity with a Charter change a part of that Affordability Now initiative. So here's the question: I wanted to ask, has the department received any outreach from private companies in the past year expressing interest in acquiring all or part of the Water Department? And if so, has the Water Department responded? And have you been in conversation with other municipalities that have gone through privatization to understand the risks and how we can better safeguard our system? I believe deeply that public water ought to remain public. And I think there's some issues around privatization. So I really wanted to hear on that one. That's the end of my stuff. If you can get it on record, I'd appreciate it. Thank you, Madam Chair. COMMISSIONER JEWELL: The simple answer is no. And then to go a little bit further, I don't own the Water Department. I am a caretaker of the Water Department. We are here for the public service.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you, Commissioner -- pardon me?

What about the other questions? I'd like him to put them on the record.

Yes. Are you able to give a 30-second response to Councilmember O'Rourke's additional questions? COMMISSIONER JEWELL: I'm sorry. I was --

The question was about looking for opportunities to get folks like renters and those who may not be enrolled to get them into TAP in outreach efforts to make sure that we're not losing folks on that program? COMMISSIONER JEWELL: Susan Crosby is here to talk about public outreach --

So -- COMMISSIONER JEWELL: -- quickly as she possibly can.

Yes. We need a 30-second response. I must, must comply with the Council President's request. So 30 seconds to respond please.

Yes. Tenants who are our customers are eligible for all of our assistance programs, including TAP. We do, do outreach with Community Legal Services and other organizations to help renters become our customers. Tonight I'm going to be speaking at HAPCO, which is an investment and landlord, to let them know and to encourage them to let their renters become our customers so that they, themselves, can take advantage of our programs and to let them know of all of the benefits that they can reap if they allow their tenants to become our customers.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Councilmember O'Rourke. And thank you, Commissioner Jewell and to your team, and also to Tracy Borda and the Department of Aviation. Prior to the committee standing in recess until 2:15, I will quickly recognize Councilmember O'Neill to welcome guests to Council chambers. And after that time, the Committee will stand in recess until 2:15.

Thank you, Madam Chair. We have in our presence a group of students from California, Northern California, North Star Academy. They're 8th graders who are on spring break, and we're going to New York and then Washington. And No. 6 over here is my grandson, Declan. And Declan apparently convinced the group that they -- without much convincing apparently, that they could do a stopover from New York to Washington in the city where it all started, the birthplace of America. And I want to thank them. They have several parent escorts. There's grandparents who have come today. And in total, there's probably 60 to 65 people, but 49 students are actually on the trip. And I just want to welcome them, thank the Council. They've seen the Mayor's Reception room. They've seen the Conversation Hall. They've seen the Caucus room. And we're heading to the Supreme Courtroom, where some not so prominent Councilmember is going to give them some local government history and civics lessons. Okay. So I thank you and we are just thrilled to have them here. And I know they will remember 250 the rest of their lives. They did the Rocky Steps and the Liberty Bell already. And so, they will have seen all the biggies in City Hall, the six great rooms. So we'll be there very shortly. Thank you. (Applause.)

Thank you, Councilmember O'Neill. Welcome to Philadelphia. And now, the committee will officially stand in recess until 2:15. Thank you. Welcome to Philadelphia. (Lunch recess.)

Thank you, members. It's always good to see all of you here. Ms. Loughead, please call the panel as we resume the Committee of the Whole on the FY2027 budget.

The next panel is Bridget Greenwald, Commissioner for Licenses and Inspections, Quality of Life Division and Basil Miranda, Commissioner for Licenses and Inspections, Inspection, Safety and Compliance. (Witnesses approached witness table.)

Before we get started, I want to acknowledge Basil Miranda and the work that you're doing with L&I as well as Bridget Greenwald, and thank you for both of your teams just being on the case regarding the variety of different things my office may call you to address. And so, I just wanted to set the tone and just thank you for your hard work and your dedication to move the City of Philadelphia forward in a safe manner as well as we approve the quality of life of all of our neighborhoods. And so, Bridget, I want to ask you to state your name for the record and please begin your testimony.

Sure. Good afternoon, Council President Johnson and members of City Council. I am Bridget Collins-Greenwald, the Commissioner of the Department of Licenses and Inspections, Quality of Life. It is a pleasure to be appear before City Council today in support of L&I's QOL FY27 budget request. As you have our written testimony which highlights the many accomplishments and plans of the department in front of you, I will not belabor them. I would like to mention one thing that is not in the written testimony about the QOL team. The QOL team has many outstanding employees, both long- term and those who have started recently as two weeks ago. They are dedicated and care about improving the quality of life for the citizens of Philadelphia. I would like to acknowledge them publicly for their commitment to public service. They are out in every neighborhood every single day, providing education and enforcement. They want to see this city thrive. I say it all the time. I am very proud to work in a place where the employees show such a genuine sense of care and commitment to their profession by following our core mission of responsibly and respectively serving the community of Philadelphia by providing quality code, education and enforcement services. The QOL team is transparent, approachable and we embrace positivity to make the city the safest, cleanest and greenest large city in the country, with economic opportunity for all. Thank you for indulging me and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you very much. Mr. Miranda, please state your name for the record and please begin your testimony for the record. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: My name is Basil Miranda. I'm responsible for the construction side of L&I, better known as Inspection, Safety and Compliance. I will be submitting testimony on behalf of L&I ISC. City Council President Johnson, Councilmembers, thank you for this opportunity. I would just ask for your indulgence so that I can briefly highlight four initiatives that we've successfully pursued since we last met. First, our Audits and Investigation Unit has put together an effective investigative plan that connects the dots when contractors try to game the system and evade L&I violations by creating alter-ego construction companies. It successfully resulted in an order from the L&I Board of Review giving us legal precedent to revoke the license of both the contractor and the alter- ego entity as well as authority to impose stop-work orders on all their projects. Also on the enforcement front, L&I ISC has now begun to enforce a construction code provision, enacted back in 2006, which gives the city authority to deny the renewal of contractors licenses and to deny contractors' construction permits if they owe the city unpaid fines and fees. For some unknown reason, this provision targeting scofflaw contractors, passed by the Council many years ago, was never enforced until the Parker Administration came into office and took the bill 24 by the horns. Third, in addition to conducting inspections with new vigor and proactively working with contractors, through its five district offices, our Construction Inspection staff has instituted a remote inspection unit, which has taken virtual inspections to the next level, conducting inspections by smartphones on a list of specific permit types that may be appropriate for this new technology. So I'm proud to report that our remote inspections unit received national recognition when it was invited to make a presentation in January at the annual conference of the National Institute for Building Sciences held in Anaheim, California, about all the good work ISC's remote inspection unit is doing right in our own backyard. Last but not least, on March 30th we welcomed a new class of seven inspectors recruits, reducing our vacancy rate to 20%. As part of that effort, we will be implementing a long-awaited, entirely new training protocol with a training syllabus that is comparable to something that you would find in a college-level course. In addition to building code construction coursework, our new training protocol includes instructional report writing, learning how to put together more effective cases when going to court to enforce construction site and OVs and having recruits spend additional time in the districts to get a practical feel for the job much earlier in their training. In conclusion, I respectfully ask for the continued support of Council. With your partnership and the tireless work of our ISC staff, our inspectors, plan reviewers, code officials, clerks and enforcement officers, we can deliver on our mission. They are the best and have earned our respect and gratitude. As a result, I can confidently say that the historic, reorganized, reinvigorated L&I can indeed bring Mayor Parker's vision and agenda for a city government that you can see, feel and touch to construction projects in every neighborhood of the city. Thank you for your attention and consideration. I look forward to answering any questions you might have.

Thank you very much. Chair recognizes Councilmember Katherine Gilmore Richardson, then Councilmember Dr. Anthony Phillips and Councilmember Jamie Gauthier.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Council President. And thank you to the L&I team. Starting with both Commissioners, I'm going to get used to this at one point, I'll email the right office or call the right office at some point but, Commissioner Greenwald and also Commissioner Miranda and to your teams, Lisa Adams and Diane Lucidi, they're always a great resource to get information out on L&I services and cases. I mean, particularly when the cases need extra attention. Jennifer, Jennifer, Jennifer, thank you, thank you. Jennifer, I hope you can hear me. I hope you're watching. Thank you so much for all of your extra special help on the complex cases, the nuisance businesses, the nuisance properties, the stores fixing cars on the street, the locations with no rental licenses. Thank you so much, Renee Reinhardt, drug paraphernalia reporting, working with my team, and also Sarah Adamo and to all the inspectors out there and all the team members, thank you very, very much. I quickly just wanted to get a few questions on the record relative to some of the staffing vacancies, your vacancy rate, and we know we go up and down. Can you just tell us what your vacancy rates are and your vacancy allowance request? And how many positions have been vacant for 12 months? How many have been vacant for 18 months? And even if you can't tell us today, if you could provide a list to City Council of the vacancies by position and by unit. And I ask that because we know that some of the more complex cases, you need to have trained inspectors who have a certain amount of time in L&I in order to do that work. And so, if you could just talk a little bit about your vacancy rate and the vacancy allowance, and also which positions have been vacant for more than a year? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Sure. So we have two different divisions, as you know the QOL and ISC. On the QOL side, we're at a 5% vacancy rate, which is the lowest it's been in quite some time. Now, that being said, we just hired eight inspectors. We have four more starting next Monday, and that will get us to only having one inspector vacancy. The requirements are different though, so ours don't need as much as Commissioner Miranda's do with regard to the field inspection training and things like that from the trade. So we were able to staff up. We worked with OHR to get new lists that we've actually got the L&I code inspector, enforcement inspector on the critical list, so there will always be a list for us. So we're making a lot of progress.

Okay. Now for Inspection, Safety and Compliance, that's on Miranda's side, you all have 250 General Fund-budgeted positions, but you've had 40 positions unfilled for the last two fiscal years. And you can sort of read and follow in the detail that you all are adjusting the positions and titles in that particular unit, so if you could just explain the reasons for those shifts and how this will help you to increase your staffing and/or achieve the staffing necessary to handle the case load? COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Yes. We're at, I think, a 20% vacancy rate now. Our folks have to go through an extensive state- required certification process, and that takes about four, six months to a year to kind of complete that process. So that kind of limits us to a certain extent. However, we're out there trying to make do with what we have and hopefully, we could respond by using, what I call, strategic use of OT to follow up on complaints that need to be addressed. And in that regard, I think we're doing a pretty good job.

Okay. I'm asking because it seems as if when you read the detail, that you all are trying to rightsize the positions that you have specifically in Inspection, Safety and Compliance, but it also showcases reduction in the building inspectors, building inspector-budgeted positions in that particular unit. And so, I wasn't sure if that was an attempt to sort of rightsize your budget a bit to be more accurate around the positions that you need or if I'm just not following it correctly relative to the vacancies in your unit? COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: No, we weren't trying to downsize with regard to inspectors. We're just trying to fill the vacancies that we have. That's the challenge.

Received. Okay. And I heard the bell and I'll honor the clock, but I just wanted to notate this for the record, for the CVNs and all of the sort of fines that are coming into L&I, 4.5 million at FY25, estimated at 4.7 million at FY26, projecting a slight increase to 4.8 million in FY27, I just wanted to know if that total is inclusive of all the nuisance business code violation fines that are issued under Section 9-4400 of the code? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: It's a combination of all the fines, code enforcement fines, so all the ones that will be on the construction side and all the Title 9 ones, so it's both.

Okay. You all are keeping a record of the amount of revenue that's lost to the unpaid code violation fines every year? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: We have a record of the fines that were put out and then the fines that are collected. We do coordinate with Revenue on a regular basis.

Okay. And then if we can just make sure -- and I have this more so for PPD more than anything, that we're also coordinating with them. I mean, you know, we all work together with the Nuisance Business Task Force. But particularly for the businesses that have the critical violations that need to be closed immediately, I just want to make sure that partnership is working. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Partnership's been fantastic. Actually, I just double checked this morning, we have 43 active chronic nuisance ceases right now, and that's a subset of the 448 that are out there right now. So that's just that recent combination, a coordination of doing the 9-4400s with us. Police issue, they do intent to cease, it comes to us and then we cease it. So it's been wonderful, a great partnership.

Okay. That'll be great. Okay. Thank you so much and I'll reserve the other questions on that for PPD. Thank you, Council President.

Thank you very much. Councilmember Dr. Anthony Phillips and Councilmember Jamie Gauthier and Councilmember Bass.

Thank you, Council President. Commissioner Bridget and also Matt(sic) Basil, I just want to say, Commissioners, thank you so much for your work with us over the past several years in our office as we try to improve the quality of life of Philadelphia. Recently, we came to the department to talk about a real problem that we were seeing in our neighborhoods, landlords who failed to respond to violations and failed to respond to unsafe conditions. We engaged with your team early before the legislation that we introduced called the Non-resident Landlord Accountability bill was introduced. However, we provided recommendations to address the problem. We tried to work with the team. We did not come to any conclusion. So now, we have this bill in place and the goal for me is to figure out how we're going to make sure that this bill becomes really enacted in a way that we can see it being put in place. So for the record, I just want to ask a couple of questions: How would a department verify and ensure that property owners are providing a real physical address rather than the P.O. Box as well as utilizing a real phone number and they also will have an agent in place through this Non-resident Landlord bill? COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Yes. They submit their application to eCLIPSE and that process kind of processes the whole application. And at that point, we get the information and decide whether or not it's a past muster, so to speak, and then we either issue the license or inform the applicant that the license won't be issued.

So if you could describe to me what is the department's enforcement timeline? Because what I'm trying to ask about is we're going to have to enforce this bill, right, that is now going to be in the books. So I just want to get a better sense of is there going to be enforced -- are you going to work on the enforcement after the 30 days is noted or 60 days or 90 days? Because if the landlord is not being responsive, right, there's supposed to be a violation of $500 for not being responsive and then a potential rental license, suspension or revocation. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Councilmember, that's an enforcement issue. That would fall on the Quality Of Life side of L&I. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: So from what I understand from when the team met with your staff on that piece of legislation, it was you needed the local managing partner or managing agent, right, to be on the license, so that part would fall on Basil's side to make sure they're collecting that information, which I believe they said they can do. It's already collected in some part. I think they have to tweak the system a little bit so that will take a little bit of time just to do an enhancement. But I don't think it's a major enhancement. Then if for some reason a person applies for a rental license and they don't provide that information, we could do an automatic violation, like it could come out of the system, you know what I'm saying. So the enforcement piece could live in the system. Then if they don't continue to not comply with the violations, then we could physically go out and start, you know what I mean, go through the other enforcement end. But I think it could be automatic right through the system, because it's just a matter of flagging whether the information was provided or not.

Right, so -- and I heard the bell. So I just want to say what I was looking for is what's going to be your threshold now? So -- COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: I didn't hear that.

What's going to be your thresh -- basically what's going to be the point where you're going to begin the enforcement? Is it going to be -- if you have a violation and they're not responsive, after 30 days or 60 days, have you looked into that? And then you're going to say, okay, we're going to give you the $500 fine or potentially send them a letter saying we're going to revoke your license or when is going to be the point of -- COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: We would follow our normal enforcement process, which whatever you got out of eCLIPSE, the letter telling you needed to provide this information, we didn't get it within a 30-day, so our inspection SLA is 35 days, we would do an inspection. If you don't comply with that upon a reinspection, it's another 35 days. Usually you would send it to court or do a fine. So it will depend on this issue what else we find on that property.

Okay. Thank you, Council President. I'll follow up later.

Thank you very much. Councilmember Jamie Gauthier and Councilmember Cindy Bass.

Thank you, Council President. Good afternoon, Commissioners. Thanks to both of you and to your teams for the work that you do on behalf of the city every day. My questions are about vacant buildings, which I believe touches both Quality Of Life and Inspection, Safety and Compliance. I'm going to get my first two questions on record, allow you to answer and then get to more if I can or if I have time. There was some attention given last summer to the fact that the city stopped proactively collecting and publishing data updates as it relates to vacant properties, which we know are major contributors to issues like illegal dumping and gun violence. So keeping this baseline data current is a crucial way for a variety of government initiatives to be effective. And so, my first question is, why was this decision made and is there any plan for the city to resume updating and publishing this data? And then next, I know that we've seen quicker response times to vacant property service requests this year and we're grateful, especially to Quality Of Life, for engaging in a specific partnership with one of our community organizations, One PA West Southwest Rising, in order to inspect a series of dangerous properties in our district. So thank you for that. One area that has still been a bit of a black box for my office is which properties end up getting referred to the Law Department for court action and why. From the outside, there doesn't seem to be a consistent set of criteria that we can identify that determines this, and many properties can pile up violations for years with no court action. And so, my second question is or a challenge is, I want to find a way to speed this process up to get faster action on these nuisance properties, so can you walk us through what those criteria are and if they're written down somewhere? And what suggestions do you have to try to get court action on these properties on a faster timeline? COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Unsafe and ID'd properties, what we'll do is go out, send an inspector, make an evaluation and issue a violation. And then that in turn has the -- we have to track down the property owner. A lot of times a lot of these properties are involved in tangled titles and it's difficult to track down the responsible person, but we send out notices of violations, then they have 30, 35 days to respond, and then we do a follow-up to see if there was any compliance. If there's no compliance, then we will go back and I think we're required to do a second violation, as per the whole department, and then the same process applies. And then after that, then it's ripe for legal action.

I don't think we're mystified about that part of the process. In fact, many of these properties have violation after violation after violation. They are past the first and the second part of that review. What I'm asking is once a property gets to a certain point, is there a standard set of criteria for what moves through court action and what doesn't? We have not been able to identify that, so I'm trying to get to that with you. What criteria your department uses? And is there a way to be more transparent about that and to move this process along more quickly when legal action is clearly needed to get a result? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: I can take that part. So there is a court flow process and it actually identifies what cases you would send to municipal court, what ones you would send the CCP. As Commissioner Miranda already had stated, unsafe or something like that, if you want to demolish a building, that would go to CCP, right. So there's a flow. So for example, like sign permits, you would send that to Municipal Court. You wouldn't send it to Common Pleas Court. But if there was an unlawful use of a thing, you would send it to Common Pleas. So what happens is it goes from L&I, after they do exactly what Commissioner Miranda said, you do both sides. You do the inspection, the reinspection, then the third inspection and then you decide to send it to court. But it goes to the Law Department. And then either side bundles all of those violations, all the information up for the Law Department. The Law Department makes a final determination of whether it goes to court or not.

Okay. I think that's what I'm asking. I'm not asking about what makes something eligible, right, for court action or I'm not asking about how we determine which court. I'm assuming that out of all the properties eligible to move forward for some kind of legal action, we're not sending 100% of them forward. What I'm asking you is, with the percentage that we are moving forward, what criteria are we making to make that determination, to select them? And if it's the Law Department that does that, that's fine. But what is the set of criteria that they are using I assume in partnership with you? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: So you would have to ask the Law Department when they determine what they send and what they don't send to court. But like I said, we have a standard where we do those three inspections and then we would process it to court.

Okay. It would seem like everyone should kind of be abreast of how those decisions are made and should weigh in. So maybe I'll ask for a conversation with you guys and the Law Department to try to just hone in on that a little more. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Sure. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Councilmember, what we're doing now is we established a new court district unit which is focused on making better and stronger cases and trying to address some of these obstacles that we're faced with. And that court district unit just came within the last couple of months, and it's just getting ready -- we have plans to maybe expand and it's being led by a fellow by the name of Gene Stallworth, who is a rising star at L&I. So we have complete confidence that Gene might be able to answer some of these issues. So we have a plan.

Yes, I would love to talk to Gene about that. Thank you. And then can you briefly answer the first question. I think it's important that we're being transparent about the data about these vacant properties, but we saw that we are not updating that information. Why was that decision made? And then can we go back to publishing it? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: I know there was an article in the Inquirer that talked about this and then we did some research into it. So that vacant property index has not been discontinued. It does continue. L&I is only one department that feeds into that indicator. So like, PGW does, PWD, it isn't owned by the Department of L&I. From what we've been told by OIT, Central OIT, it still exists and it's still out there. And they did actually send us a link so we could probably send everyone a link. We did respond to the reporter that way, but I don't know if it ever made -- COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: And just to add, our OIT people were very upset with that article 16 because they did not stop compiling that information. So the reporter did not have her facts straight or his facts straight.

So we are updating the information?

Yes. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Yes.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Councilmember Cindy Bass, Councilmember Brooks, then Dr. Nina Ahmad.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. President. Good afternoon. How's everybody doing? Good to see you guys. I want to start out saying thank you for all of your hard work and for always accepting my calls no matter what time of day or night or middle of the night. You all have been just really accessible and responsive and I appreciate that. And I just want you to know that because I know that L&I is probably one of the most, if not the most, challenging departments in the City of Philadelphia to operate. And so, I had a couple of questions. And most of these questions we probably have talked about in some capacity before. I wanted to speak specifically, Commissioner Miranda, you mentioned revoking licenses and I'm trying to figure out under what circumstances are licenses revoked because it seems as if when we try to, you know, point out that someone is a really bad actor, that we don't get the enforcement that we're looking for. And I'm just going to give you an example, one we've been working on lately in which there was a developer who's building a building and the building itself is a whole other issue. But they didn't make the One PA call. And the One PA call is where the markings will determine where your gas lines and your other lines are so that you don't hit anything. It's very, very important. And so, this development started with no call to have those markings done and designated. It then resulted in a gas leak. It then resulted in -- well, also resulting from the contractor and developers, you know, bad business policies in my opinion. Electrical wires were left exposed and they were sparking and then they were cited for stealing electricity. And then there's the fact that there was no sock drain and permits were not displayed properly. They were posted on the house. And yet there's a fence that's maybe 30 feet away from the house, so you can't see what's posted because you're so far away, so the neighbors are not informed and not included. And we've talked about these things. And I'm trying to understand and I'm really struggling with understanding why it has been so hard to get someone who is a bad actor and who also incidentally when they started out doing this project, the house that they were demolishing, they did the demo and it was so destructive that it actually put a hole in the next door neighbor's wall. They could see into the construction site from their property. And so, it just feels as if we just can't get the level of enforcement that we would like to see on a site like this, which is really just, you know, quite egregious. So that's the first thing, why is it so incredibly difficult? And the other thing I wanted to talk about was nuisance businesses, which has been an issue of mine for a long time and enforcement around businesses that are just bad actors. And part of it made me -- just recently, part of all of this thinking around all of the enforcement issues made me think are we expecting things of L&I that we should be expecting from someone else or from a different department or should there be another department that does some of the things that we expect from L&I? Are we unfairly targeting L&I as the end-all-be-all to help us fix with these enforcement matters? Because it just doesn't feel like we are making the level of progress that we would like to make. And I remember a few years ago we were here and we were talking about window coverings. And I forget who it was. It wasn't -- neither of you were the commissioners at that time. But I remember whoever was here, we were talking about windows and businesses are only supposed to be covered. Do you remember what the number is, Bridget? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: 50%. They should have no more than 50, yes.

And it is so common now to see a business that is completely, totally wrapped in advertisement for their business. You have no 15 idea what's going on. Whether it's the front door, the side door, the windows, everything is wrapped up, so you have no idea. And it's a little disconcerting and really, in my opinion, inappropriate for a neighborhood business to be so wrapped up and you walk in and you have no idea what you're walking into. But those are just a few of my questions. So I don't know if you want to talk about any of those. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Well, we discussed that one property with your staff and with you also, Councilmember. First on the utility markings, believe it or not that is not reported to L&I. That's reported to Harrisburg.

It's not L&I's responsibility, but I guess what I'm wondering is, is this something that, you know, should it be reported? Is that something legislatively that we need to do to make sure that you all know because I think it's so important that you all should know this. And I think if someone doesn't have the knowledge to know that, to make a PA One call and you call yourself a developer, that's a problem. It's a big red flag. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: That's a good idea. Let's kind of explore that. Also, we've sent out inspectors to that site number of times and we determined that they do have their licenses and they do have their permits. So at this point we really have no basis to issue a stop-work order. However, be that as it may, it all boils down to proof. And I would urge the neighbors to make a 311 complaint so that something is on the record so it can't be construed that we're focusing and harassing this particular contractor, so something's on the record. And based on that, then we can send out our audits and investigation unit as a follow-up and hopefully, there's stronger proofs. And I would also suggest that the neighbors also follow up their 311 complaints with photos and other documentation, you know what I mean. And I would also suggest that they can kind of supplement what they file to 311, by filing a -- it's addinfoli@phila.gov. It's our email address, and they can supplement what they provided the 311 and that will give us a factual basis, stronger proofs to maybe take action against some of these bad actors.

Okay. I think that this is going to be a much longer conversation, I think. And I don't want to hog up any more time, but I do think that trying to get a level of enforcement for those of us who have been here for more than five minutes, like it's hard to get the level of enforcement that you're trying to get to make the quality of life for your neighbors acceptable. And so, that's why I'm wondering is it all L&I or should we be looking at a different vehicle to get where we're going? It's just a thought. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Well, what we're doing on our side is, I call it, a cat and mouse game with these bad actors. And we have two specific units, Saturday Patrols and Clean Sites Initiatives, that we kind of increase our presence off hours at the end of the work day on Saturday, when these bad actors think that they could get away with stuff. So we can certainly put that particular property on our Saturday patrols to see if they can eyewitness some of this bad activity, this bad conduct.

Okay. I'll come back. Thank you, Mr. President.

Thank you. Councilmember Kendra Brooks, Councilmember Dr. Nina Ahmad, Councilmember Quetcy Lozada.

Thank you, Council President. One of the topics that we are starting to hear about more in the city is data centers. And my question is, has L&I done any preliminary work on data centers? We have heard rumors that there are plans being drawn up and I would like to understand better how you're approaching this issue. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: No, we haven't -- COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: No, we have not been involved in any discussions about data centers, either side. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: That would come under construction part, more likely than not. We haven't heard anything in that regard.

Okay. The next question, LLCs are often used with landlords. One of the issues my constituent services team has been having challenges tracking down bad landlords who shield their identity behind LLCs. Has L&I thought through the LLC disclosure? And what advice would you have for tenants who have this problem? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: So we've been working closely with the Philly Stat 360 team on a lot of these issues with LLCs and combining them. They have a great research team that's been working with us on a variety of issues, nuisance issues, to kind of link people, LLCs, the different -like it's spelled a different way, if it's in a different name or whatever. They've been doing a great job for us. So I plan on continuing that relationship with them and getting to a point where it just comes more routine.

My next question is, what percentage of landlords in Philadelphia have a rental license? And what is the goal for raising this number over the next several years? And how do you plan on achieving this? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: So we do not have a clear indication. I know that different reports have given different numbers of how many unlicensed landlords there are. We do know how many units we have and we think with this new proactive approach, we're going to capture that number. I can't say honestly that we have it right now though, how many are unlicensed. But I do think we will get there.

Okay. And through the constituent services issues in our office, they frequently discover landlords that improperly have the Homestead Exemption. Typically landlords apply and receive this exemption but do not live in that home. Do you have an estimate on a percentage of improper Homestead Exemptions that exist in our city? And have you had a conversation with the Revenue Department about how to approach this problem? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: We have not been involved in anything to do with the Homestead issue, but I would imagine that the Revenue Department would have an idea if they coordinated with our license information. So it might be a better question for Revenue.

Okay. So is there any way between Revenue and L&I to help determine the number of unlicensed landlords, because it will show that someone is a landlord based on some of the data that we're collecting and other services in the city to prevent disappearing landlords, we can't find a landlord, crumbling properties and then we can't figure out who owns it or they live in New York or Florida? Usually Florida, that's been like the -- yeah.

We coordinate with the Revenue Department quite often and that is something I can bring to the table the next time I'm with the Commissioner and see what we can find out.

Thank you so much.

Thank you very much. Councilmember Dr. Nina Ahmad and Councilmember Quetcy Lozada, then Councilmember Rue Landau.

Thank you, Council President. Good afternoon. Good to see you both. I wanted to ask about something. You were very helpful to us, Commissioner Greenwald, when we passed Bill 15 250774 about including a link to registration information. I have to commend you and tell my colleagues and the public how smoothly that process went, how easily we worked together and how quickly you responded and put that required link into the material that a renter gets when they rent from a landlord. My question is -- thank you very much for that. My question is, how do you keep track whether the landlords are actually giving that information to their renters? I did an informal polling right in my own office. People who had just recently rented, it was not uniform, meaning somebody did get it and somebody didn't. It seemed it could be just not because they didn't want to, they might not -- smaller landlords with smaller, fewer number of units may or may not know about this. So I just wondered how we can be helpful, one, to make sure this packet gets out to them and they are actually doing that because it's no skin off their nose? You're making everything available for them, and maybe you have a tracking system to do that already that I just don't know about. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: So we do not have a tracking system, but we're doing a big public push for that. And, yes, we would love to partner with the Council offices, the neighborhood, the Mayor's Office, everyone. That booklet Partners for Good Housing, if no one's ever seen it, go on to our website and look at it. Sarah Adamo, who works for us, did -- and I know you all know because she testifies all the time --

Yes. I wanted to shout her out too. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: She's amazing and she put that together. And in actuality, she thought of something she was doing when doing a rental thing a few years ago and said, this is what I'll add to that. There's QR codes in there, there's how you vote. We're looking if there's other pertinent information when someone's moving into a rental property that would help them, we're more than happy to do that. We have it in six different languages. It's in Korean, it's in Chinese, it's in Spanish. We're always looking to improve getting things out to the public. So I think we're also going to start staffing some of the Neighborhood Action Centers for the Mayor, so we will make sure to have them on hand. They're phenomenal even if you don't have a rental property. There's so much good information in them.

And to the point of good landlords, bad landlords, this actually is protection for landlords. Because if they didn't hand that packet to a renter, they're liable. So I think this would allow landlords to pay attention to this, that if you want to protect yourself, make sure you're following the law that requires you to hand this packet, which has an enormous amount of information. And I once again want to say thank you to Sarah Adamo, thank you to all of you, because this was intergovernmental cooperation at its best. Thank you, Council President. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Thank you.

Thank you very much. Councilmember Quetcy Lozada, Rue Landau, then Nicolas O'Rourke.

Thank you, Council President. Good afternoon. Thank you for being with us this afternoon. I just want to continue the conversation about convenience stores and the enforcement or the lack thereof enforcement that occurs across the City of Philadelphia, but specifically I want to speak about the lack of enforcement that I see in the 7th Council District, particularly around our commercial corridors. We passed legislation some time last year to prevent some of these businesses from opening past 11 o'clock. And I think that it was part of the tools that were necessary by the Philadelphia Police Department to improve public safety, but quality of life as well in that neighborhood. I think we've done a good job as it relates to reducing crime, but we really are struggling to hold these nuisance businesses accountable. I've done several drive- throughs between 12:00 a.m. and 3:30 a.m. around the 7th Council District to see for myself what many residents complain about. And I know that if I'm seeing it, so is everybody else. And so, my question to you is, how do we better improve enforcement as it relates to some of these convenience stores? Councilmember Bass mentioned some of the frustrations that she's experiencing and I'm experiencing the same. So I'm just trying to figure out how do we do that better? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Sure. So on the curfew issue first, and then I'll answer your question and Councilwoman Bass' too as well as about the nuisance businesses. So we have an a memorandum of understanding with Philadelphia Police Department because they're out there at night, so they're the enforcement agency for that. And I know in your Council District, because we're tracking what they did, so they have a total of 360 they've issued so far to date, curfew violations. So this will go back to all general nuisance businesses. That's that 9-4400, that legislation. So here's how we can curb nuisance businesses. So the police department goes out, they write a violation. The police department goes out again, they write another one, a CVN, a ticket. They write a third. That business is now a chronic nuisance. If that business gets three tickets within a 12-month period, it is a chronic nuisance. Okay. So then the police department issues an intent to cease with us, with L&I. So the business owner has to go to the local police captain, I mean, district, yeah, and come up with a nuisance abatement agreement. Those agreements are different. It could be your store needs lighting or you need a security guard or you can't have -- whatever it is, it's different, you know what I mean. It's different to the areas of the city. It's different to the store, what the issue is of that store. If that business does not come to the police captain and make a nuisance abatement agreement, that is forwarded to us immediately. We go out and do the cease operations. We do the poster, we close it. The police department then enforces that. So we don't do the enforcement on the cease. The police department does. That's for everything. So it is a really good process that if used more frequently, it can work. We have over 400 businesses that are closed right now, ceases that are there right now. So if that process really works, and we have that really in sync with the police department, that Neighborhood Services Unit under D.C. Massey is amazing, we've been doing a lot of good work, so I think expanding that -- I've had some conversations with Councilwoman Bass about maybe we go out in conjunction with the police captains and the different districts and we talk through it with your team and everyone else to make it maybe more known out there. Because I think there's a disconnect that you should call L&I if some things are happening when it's really the police department. And I think that maybe we need to do a better job, us and the police department of communicating that out to everyone within the department, boots on the ground, and to you guys.

We for sure have to do something different. I can speak to, you know -- unintentionally, some of these food trucks got caught up in this curfew bill. I can speak to one food truck that has over 200 of these CVNs. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Okay. Then that --

And I don't understand what the problem is, right. I can drive by and the same convenience store is open every single day. And so, there obviously is some break in communication between L&I or the police department. We talked to the police department. The police department says L&I has all of the paperwork. I talked to L&I and L&I says, well, we didn't get anything from the police department. So I want us to figure out a way where we're not doing this, right, and we're really holding people accountable, because we're not just sitting here to legislate, to legislate, right. There was a very serious problem in the 7th Council District, where three of the five most violent police districts were in the 7th, and we made a commitment to the people that we were going to prioritize public safety. And part of what we worked with the Administration, the Law Department, Health Department, we all came together to agree that this was the legislation that was going to help us put that tool in the toolbox, and we need to figure out how we enforce and how we do a better job at that and how do we do that consistently, right. We can't come and do a sweep in April and then not come back for six months, right. Because, you know as well as I do that they tear those signs down and they continue to conduct business as usual. So I'm just trying to figure out who is the Office of Administrative Review. Where does that land, because from what I understand you all send that to Office of Administrative Review. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: The Office of Administrative Review is where you would go to appeal something. So that's Melissa Andre's group. I think they're under the CAO now. I'm fairly certain. And that's where --

And is that where you all send the CVNs or the police send the CVNs? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: We don't really issue that many CVNs. We're more notices of violation, so I'm sure that they probably wind up in the Office of Administrative Review. I don't want to say definitely, but probably I think that is the process.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Councilmember Rue Landau, Nicolas O'Rourke and Brian O'Neill.

Hi. Thank you so much, Council President. Thank you guys for being here. Just want to follow up a couple of clarifying questions about the nuisance businesses just to make sure we're all super clear with the process. You said you have an MOU with the police department, that they do nighttime patrol and that the police department writes the violations, the CVNs. Do they do that during the day also? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Yeah, they can do it during the day or at night.

Are there two pads? Sometimes you write a notice of violation and sometimes that police department writes a CVN or is it always the police department? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: So the police department can do it based on a behavioral thing that they see. We do it based on a code thing that we'll see, so a code violation. So if we see you don't have fire extinguishers or we see that you have your windows covered, you know what I mean, we would write a notice of violation.

Okay. And even when you do it, if you get three in months, they're 9 considered a chronic nuisance and 10 they have to go to the police 11 department to enter into a nuisance 12 abatement agreement in person? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Yes. The police district captain, yes. And then it goes up through the Deputy Commissioner to get approved. But, yes, you have to make the agreement specific to that nuisance business.

Who follows up with the agreement to make sure they're following it? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: So it goes to the police department and it goes to L&I QOL. So the police department does the enforcement. If there's a nuisance agreement, the police department does the enforcement. If there's a cease, they do the enforcement.

If there's a cease, who does it? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: The police department. Did I say the opposite? Sorry.

So they do both. They're doing the enforcement -- COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Yes.

If you go out and you issue your cease and desist and you put up the sticker, what happens next? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: If we put up a sticker and that business opens, it is enforced by the police department, we can then process that to court because now we know, okay, well, they violated everything, we will process it to court. We hope that the cease is what stops you from doing the activity. Sometimes we know that that doesn't have that so we will process you to court. You could eventually have your license revoked through the court process, but you should stay ceased. I mean, that's the ultimate goal, right. So the police department does the actual enforcement. If we were out there and saw it, we would say wait a minute, this is happening, we will call the police department immediately and have them come out.

Okay. That was helpful. Thank you. Do you ever contact the District Councilperson when somebody has gotten as far as being a nuisance business in an agreement with the police department or does the police department ever do that? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: I'm not sure if the police department does, but it's not a bad idea to do that because it probably makes more sense for everyone to know what's going on in their district. Probably makes a lot of sense. So I will take that back up to the police department.

Thank you. And my second question just has to do with again data and rental licenses. We have so many ways in which you can determine that a place is probably a rental property, whether or not they have a rental license when they got the rental license. Is L&I working on any way of bringing this to the forefront? You could sit back and look at municipal court filings, see that someone filed a complaint. There's already been a lease someone's been in for five years, but they just got the rental license two months ago, that could be a way. There's got to be, you know, we keep talking about technology, AI, ways in which we could use it that's going through various databases of ours, why aren't we doing that? We know when there's multiple meters on a building. Do you know that? When there's multiple meters on a building, are you looking to see if there's a rental license? If the Water Department is sending multiple monthly bills, do you know that there's a rental license there? Who's doing this work? There's got to be a way in which we're finding the landlords who aren't licensed to get them licensed. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: So if the funding comes through to start this proactive rental inspection program, a big piece of that, if you look into the positions that we want, there is a code administrator in there and that person will be looking at all different ways in which we can identify folks that are not licensed.

Okay. Thank you. I also think there's technology that can do this. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Oh, God, in conjunction with technology, yes.

Thank you so much for putting this at the forefront.

Thank you very much. Councilmember Nicolas O'Rourke and Councilmember Brian O'Neill, Councilmember Jeffrey Jay Young.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Commissioner Greenwald. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Councilmember O'Rourke.

Good to see you. I want to thank you and I want to thank your entire team for all the work that you've done to stand up the proactive rental inspection program that you just finished referencing. As Member Bass mentioned, I am not aloof to the fact that one of the biggest most difficult tasks, probably in city government, the City of Philadelphia is running this particular department, and this thing that you have begun to stand up is a very, very, very big deal and you know that. I want to remind us all how much of a gamechanger that it will be for all the renters in the city as a result of that. This is a fundamental shift in how Philadelphia approaches housing safety from a complaint-driven system to one that prevents harm before we get there, before it happens. And I know this didn't happen by accident. It's the direct result of years of work by L&I, by this Administration and by tenants across the city who organize tirelessly with the Safe Healthy Homes campaign to demand a proactive system that protects tenants and in turn holds bad actors accountable. And while I don't want to spend too much time on my soapbox, I could, I don't want to, I want to be clear about something in particular. The proactive rental inspection program will only reach its full potential if our city's laws match the ambition of the program. The program will identify risk and find unsafe conditions earlier, but identification alone doesn't keep people or make people actually safe. What protects tenants is what happens after that, what happens next, whether there are clear, enforceable consequences, whether there are strong incentives to comply quickly and whether tenants have real remedies when unsafe conditions aren't fixed. That's exactly what the Safe Healthy Homes Act is designed to do. It is the enforcement backbone that allows a proactive inspection system to work as it's intended to work. So for me, these efforts are deeply dependent upon each other. They hold each other up. Proactive inspections are on the front end and the Safe Healthy Homes Act, the balance of that package brings up the rear. Without passing these bills, I think that we risk building a system that finds problems but doesn't resolve them, finds problems but doesn't at least consistently resolve them. But when we do pass them, we create a system that actually keeps people safe and preserves our housing stock for years to come. So again, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for this work. Thank you for your support for the Safe Healthy Homes Act. I've said it before and I'll say it again. L&I is our first line of defense at the intersection of health and safety in this city. Police and Fire respond to disasters. L&I is the proactive, preventive line of defense that prevents these disasters from ever happening in the first place. The folks at L&I deserve a huge round of applause for their work here. And if there's anybody that works for L&I, you should clap for yourselves, absolutely. And I think I speak for all of council when I say that we want to ensure that your team is fully resourced as a public safety department should be resourced. To that end, here's my questions: First on staffing, the budget references 13 new positions. Are those inclusive of the five positions created for the pilot or are they in addition? And with these hires, what is the total number of L&I inspectors and support staff dedicated to residential code enforcement? That one you probably can answer pretty quickly. Let me get the other one on record because I heard the bell. " It comes up all the time. We've heard concerns from some landlords that they may struggle to stay in compliance because of delays in inspections or reinspections by L&I. My staff has spoken with your team, and our understanding is that when an owner escalates an issue related to license renewal, L&I is typically able to turn around that particular complaint or that issue within about five days.

Can you confirm that timeline for the record and clarify how that process works in practice? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Sure. So I'm going to answer the question on the inspectors first. So hopefully, there'll be eight new additional inspectors added to the five we have now. So there'll be 13 inspectors. There'll be a director, there'll be two supervisors, there'll be the code administrator that I just mentioned who is going to be looking at ways to come up with unlicensed rentals through technology, so not just one person just doing that, and a service rep who will probably keep it all together. That will be that. So that's what the team will look like. So the existing five will stay. And this is in addition, what we're talking about there. We did talk about during the hearing and prepping for the hearing, if there is a problem where we on either side of L&I is holding something up, we would absolutely have an escalation process for someone that's caught in the system. If they had their violation, it's been -- we wrote a violation and then we didn't get back out, we would ensure that we will get back out there if it's holding up someone from getting their license and not collecting rent. We certainly do not want to punish anyone, you know what I mean, that's trying to do the right thing at all that's coming into code compliance. So, yes, we can stick to that escalation process, absolutely.

Okay. That five days though, that is the timeline that you typically get these things turned around in? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: That's the timeline we're saying now. I mean, hopefully it could be quicker.

Okay. But so far -- COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: So far we're saying five, but it could be quicker. Hopefully, we always want to improve our times where they drop.

Okay. I don't know if there will be another round. I got a couple more questions I'd like to ask. Do we have another round, Mr. President?

(Gestured to continue).

Okay. Let me get my questions out. Thank you, sir. On implementation, the goal of inspecting all licensed rental units on a rotating five year cycle is very encouraging. So again, hat tip to you on that one. Very encouraged by that. You've indicated there will be a weighted system to prioritize properties that are based on violation history and risk. Will this require a new inhouse software or a new contracting system to manage? Can you walk us through the plan for this? And then let me just say these other two as well so you can try to respond so I don't eat up the clock. Can you also share how the Administration is developing direct pipelines for Philadelphians to take roles as L&I inspectors? How long is the training process? How are you making it more accessible for young Philadelphians to be trained for these positions? How are we building this in so we can just get a pipeline running and going? I think it'll be a great benefit of the city. And I know there's a constant concern that inspectors will take the training that they have, I think we talked about this, and then leave the city for higher- paying jobs out in the county, elsewhere. So what new efforts have you taken to retain trained inspectors? Because I want to be mindful about that as well as we try to ramp this up. So those are all my questions. I can repeat them again if you need me to. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: I'll start with the first two and then I'll turn it over to Basil for the last one. So we plan on working within our current system, our eCLIPSE system. We can pull a lot of data out of there, pull a lot of reports out of there, we can figure out how to weight things. So we don't need a new system. We have some great analysts on our team that have been able to actually pull some great data out and some reports. So that's how we're going to figure out how to weight everything. So we will not need a new system, no 20 new contract. So it'll be business as usual there. As for a pipeline, I think it might be easier for our group to have a pipeline than Basil's, who does need more of the construction experience on the side. But I'll let him speak to his inspectors. Our inspectors don't need to come in with the trades backgrounds. So what we have been talking about with our HR team is working with the Mayor, the Community College Municipal college of actually having folks come in that way. We can pull folks that way. We hire temps into our Clean and Seal program so --

Say that again. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: We hire temporary workers in our Clean and Seal program, so we have a pipeline. What we do is right now we ask our employees, is there anyone you know that's struggling, needs a job, we'll put you through this program. You go through the L&I temporary program. If you get through a year, you come off probation, we hire you as a full-time city employee as an abatement worker, D.C. 33-represented and all that. So we have a pipeline there for Clean and Seal. We can absolutely start a pipeline with CCMI to actually get those folks on our L&I inspector list because it actually would flow very nicely for us.

The Community College for Municipal Employment you're talking about? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Yes.

1,000% big fan. Let everyone in the Administration know, a big fan. Please make that a thing. That'll be good. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: We absolutely have had conversations within our HR. We have a brand new list out, so we have to figure out when we can do that, but we have it as a critical list. So once we hire some more, we'll actually start to have the next list announced and that's where we can start that partnership with Carol and her gang. So I think it's going to be really good.

Wonderful. Commissioner Miranda, do you want to -- COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Councilmember, we are all on the same page. We want to re-outreach to bring young people into construction trades at L&I. Number one, we formed a new position at L&I. It's called the investigative position, which means that you don't need the extensive construction experience that an inspector needs. And we're looking at that as a potential for an entry-level position where a young person can come in graduating high school or whatever, get some experience in construction trades and then take the step up to the inspector position. We also have had a concerted effort to reach out to the vo-tech programs throughout the city. Every year I bring a group of L&I inspectors to St. Gabriel's down in Grays Ferry. They have an excellent program down there. I think it's guns down and tools up. And it explained to the kids what needs to be done for construction trades, the experience that they could get and also the potential to really develop a career. And I often mention to the kids when I go out there and speak, that the Mayor herself at these neighborhood budget town hall meetings says that -- did you know -- she says to me as an attorney, did you know that doctors and electricians, carpenters can make more money today than a doctor or an attorney. So there is huge potential in construction trades. And I explain it to the young people that the stars are aligned. The Mayor wants to do a concerted effort to build 30,000 new affordable housing units. So you're going to need more carpenters, you're going to need more electricians, you're going to need skilled trades folks. So the stars are aligned. And I can't emphasize more to these young folks that they need to focus on construction trades. And so, we're on the same page on that. And the final piece of that is perhaps you folks in your Council offices can get the word out to young people in your district as well as older folks who have some construction experience that L&I on the construction site is a heck of a place to work.

Thank you. And provide members of Council with the new description and we can also be able to promote it to help build the pipeline for L&I.

Exactly. Thank you, Mr. Miranda. Thank you, Commissioner Greenwald, again for your work. In conclusion, I absolutely believe hearing from other members ask questions to you all agreeing that this is one of the hardest departments to run, we desperately need to fund you all, get you staffed up to be able to do all the work that needs to be done. This seems like one of the most crucial departments to be able to function the city well. And I think all of us as members would be grateful if you guys were well-funded and well- staffed. I think it'll be for the glory of the city. Thank you, Mr. President.

Thank you very much. Councilmember Brian O'Neill, Councilmember Young.

Thank you. Commissioners, it wasn't that long ago where we only had one Commissioner. I congratulate the Mayor, not for splitting the department which makes perfect sense, but for who we picked to be the two commissioners because that makes all the difference in the world. When you combine both of you, knowledge, deep knowledge and accessibility, some of which we've never had on either one of those with the L&I Commissioner or you have one or the other, but always lacking. We always need more L&I workers. The two of you seem to be doing better at getting the L&I staff where it should be. And everybody's always agreed that it's too small, that we need more, more people, and I think you both have credibility within the administration and that is probably what's helping with it. Basil, the fact that both of you have been referred to by not just in this room at these hearings, as Commissioner Basil and Commissioner Bridget, because I find myself doing the same thing. For me, it's a term of endearment or a badge of honor in the City Council at least, because that's the accessibility part, it's personalized and we don't have to find the person who is somewhere in the department if we could just find them to do this, because we know you're going to find them for us, and we go direct, which is unusual to say the least, within your department. Bridget, -- Commissioner Bridget, I want also thank you because of the creativity, and just as you were talking about hirings, it's creative, it's tackling a problem with common sense and some guts because you're trying something new. But, Bridget, what you did with combining L&I, instead of L&I being out there by themselves, doing enforcement, Police, CLIP, Parking Authority, whoever thought they'd be part of something -- COMMISSIONER COLLINSGREENWALD: Shout-out to Richie.

-- and, you know, productive. I mean, the Parking Authority has gone under its current leadership from Richie Lazer from an F to an A+ in a very short period of time. So the Clean and Green, Sanitation, you bring that, it's like our armies are out there and they're all syncing together. But to see that and hear that and not have any of that left out, it's all thought out ahead of time. It's teamwork within the departments, intergovernmental within the same government. It's just been a pleasure to be part of and to know that the L&I has our citizens, our neighbors' backs and it's so important and it's been so short- changed for so long, that I just want to thank both of you. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: I'll pass that along to everyone. Thank you. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Appreciate that. It's our pleasure.

Thank you.

Thank you. Councilmember Jeffrey Jay Young, and we will have a brief second round of Councilmember Phillips.

Thank you, Mr. President. And I also want to get on the bandwagon of thank you to both of you, because your departments are very critical to what we do here in the City of Philadelphia. We have a lot of nuisance properties, a lot of nuisance businesses. And whenever we call your office, you're right on it, particularly on my own block. Whenever we call, there's this one house that folks seem to keep getting into. But whenever we call, L&I is right out there ensuring that it gets sealed back up. So we want to thank you for that. But one question that I have. The first question is regarding the split. So it seems like some things may not be fully split or what operational problems remain unsolved because of the split? And when can Council see a fully stabilized management structure? I guess we want to be able to fund you all at a full capacity for each of your departments. And so, when do you think we'll be able to see that? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: We already have that, Councilmember. What we're splitting right now, sharing right now is administrative services. And we're actually starting to peel that back in IT, which actually reports to OIT in the first place. So we could send you -- we have an updated org chart. We can send you that. It's like color-coded, shows where everyone's at. We can absolutely give you that. So we're there. We're still operating under the Mayor's executive order for the split. And Basil and I took it, hit the ground running as soon as the executive order was signed. So we're pretty much there. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Yeah. I have to say that Bridget and I worked together, and we kind of sat down and worked out what should go on the Quality Of Life side, what should go on the Construction side. And folks marveled at the way we were able to work together. So what I would often say is that it's very simple. It's a Philly thing. Bridget and I both -- I'm a third-generation Philadelphian, and Bridget fourth- generation. We know the importance of L&I and we are dedicated to public service. So that's the driving force on why we've been able to work so effectively.

Thank you. In the testimony it says, beginning in 2026 the permit applications will not be issued for license holders of outstanding fees, fines or delinquent taxes. Can you tell us if this were in effect right now, how many applicants will be affected by it and what guardrails will prevent the policy from unintentionally slowing lawful construction activity or small business compliance? COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Yeah, it's a good question. Currently, if a contractor wants to renew their license and they owe the city fines and fees, right now that is in effect. We plan on implementing the other part of that come July. So everyone has notice that this provision, which like I said was enacted in 2006, now everyone is on notice that this will take effect. So starting in July, if a contractor owes the city fees and fines and applies for a permit, that will be denied. And it'll be up to the contractor to come in and work out, pay the fines and fees that are owed or work out some sort of payment schedule, whatever, with Revenue and the appropriate parties.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Thank you. So we're in a brief second round because we're wrapping up. So we have Councilmember Dr. Anthony Phillips, Councilmember Jamie Gauthier. Let me go back for -- Mark left? Okay. Councilmember Dr. Anthony Phillips, Councilmember Jamie Gauthier. He probably wanted to give a South Philly shout-out. But also Councilmember Rue Landau and Mr. Driscoll and we are done. So y'all have to be very, very brief because we are hard-stopping at 4:00. So, Dr. Phillips, just be direct with your line of questioning and please be direct with your response.

I'll be really quick. I just want to say, can we get a commitment to service level agreements that can be publicized to residents, that we can have a one-pager for all the service level agreements when it comes to violation, follow-up, inspections, unsafe property response, permit, review, all that and more? COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Yeah, I think we can do that. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Yes.

Okay.

Chair recognizes Councilmember Jamie Gauthier.

Thank you, Council President. We've talked about this before, but I just want to get it on record, what is stopping the city from actually making a stabilization repair on a nuisance property when it isn't imminently dangerous? Just by way of context, it seems like our main course of action for non-imminently dangerous properties is to issue violations, and then the property gets worse and worse and worse. But sometimes with limited and targeted repairs, we can stabilize these properties such as like patching up a roof or making some other type of minor repair. What would it take to get a pilot like this really up and operating? And I know that it doesn't happen often, but we have in the past made some small repairs to stabilize a property. And so, I'm trying to understand what needs to happen to get us to do this as an established sort of way of operating? COMMISSIONER COLLINSGREENWALD: That shouldn't live in the department of L&I. L&I is the enforcement end of that and I think that's what our conversation has been. If there was to be a stabilization fund somewhere, it should be within a department or some entity that has the resources, that has contractors that do construction management. We don't do that. We don't have roofers. We don't have contractors. We wouldn't have them on line. So that would have to live in a different department or a different entity altogether.

Okay. And I'll wrap up quickly. But you all are charged with the significant job of making sure that neighborhoods are safe, right, and that buildings and neighborhoods are safe. And so, I don't think it's kind of enough to say that it shouldn't live with you. I think we have to have a -- I'm hopeful that we can have an intentional conversation with whatever partners need to be at the table. That could be L&I, PHDC, whatever. But in a district or a community like West Philly, this is a real big problem. We just have many, many properties that are not safe and are just sitting there getting worse and worse and worse. So I hope we can talk more. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Yeah, we definitely could. We definitely refer things to PHDC all the time that has that mechanism, that has those resources. I'm not saying that they have enough resources. I don't know their situation. But we do work with them all the time because they're actually an entity that has those types of resources, shall I say.

Hope to talk more. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Sure. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: And in the interest of knocking down silos on the construction side, we are more than interested in sitting down with the appropriate agencies and talking about maybe expediting the permit process or the inspection process more directly. So we're on board.

Thank you so much.

Thank you. Councilmember Rue Landau, then Councilmember Mike Driscoll.

Thank you. I have one question, but a statement first that also might be helpful in this process. Would you consider having a quarterly meeting with your most serious nuisance properties that are falling apart? And that way you can come up with, you know, group decision-making as to what can happen there, whether it's PHDC or others, maybe bring that to the District Councilperson -- COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Sure. We're open to -- I say it all the time, we collaborate with anyone. So we are --

Excellent. I threw that out -- COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Yep, absolutely.

Okay. My question's about outdoor dining. Thank you very much for your work that you've done to help us expand this. But I wanted to just ask you if you could explain your role in the process for restaurants applying to operate a sidewalk cafe or streetery? And we often hear that small businesses lack a central point of communication as they navigate this process, which can take up to 9 months just to put tables and 10 chairs outside. 11 How do you communicate 12 with Commerce, Health and Streets 13 and how can this be improved from 14 your area? And I'm asking 15 everybody this. 16 COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: 17 This would be more of a Streets 18 Department issue because they have to make that initial determination. Then they come to L&I and then we can issue whatever they think is appropriate.

We've gathered you all together, which is great, and we're making progress. And Streets is definitely -- everybody I feel like is rowing in the right direction again. But there's been issues when people are being held up in eCLIPSE and other areas that we're looking for as many points of contact for people to move the applications along. And is there any way in which you see that you can improve that process? COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Sure, we can work on that. Absolutely. I can maybe designate someone to kind of spearhead that, and hopefully we can get things back on track and get these licenses issued as soon as possible.

Excellent. 2026 is here. We love that. I would love to talk to you more about having one point person who can help. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much. And wrapping us up will be Councilmember Mike Driscoll.

Thank you, Mr. President. And I just want to thank both Commissioners for your -- you're both on speed dial with my office. I apologize for the volume of requests, not only on behalf of the 6th Councilmanic District but all 10 Districts. Commissioner Greenwald, I know you've been analyzing utility bills, water bills to find the landlords that might not have licenses to rent. How far along are you on that? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Like I was saying earlier, we have a unit which is going to be looking at all different kinds of data points to see where we can find those unlicensed rental properties.

What's your time frame on that? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: So I would think -- God, I would think we could have something by the end of the year in place.

End of this year? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Mm-hmm.

Because I think that that is going to be really important in the future. So thank you for that. Commissioner Miranda, I know it's tough, but you can hire easier than you can in terms of the training and those sorts of things. And once you get them in place, one or two, three years down the road, they get poached by our neighboring counties. Are there any tools that we can provide or encourage the Administration to give you the tools to keep them here, whether it be -- not violating, you know, policies or -- COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Yeah, that's a challenge, Councilman. That's the bane of our existence. We're concerned. We train these folks, get them experience and boom, they go to a third-party inspection agency. We're in the process of working with OHR to maybe increase salaries and anything that needs to be done to adjust the civil service provisions and requirements. And we'll try to make the best of a bad situation.

If there's any legislative fix, just let us know, if there's anything we can encourage the Administration. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: I don't know of anything off the top of my head, but that's a good point. Let me huddle up with my folks and see if there are some specific provisions that we can come back to.

Yeah, just offering it and just want to publicly thank both your departments. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Thank you. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Like I said, we have a new training unit leader and we have a lot of confidence in him. And he may have some ideas, you know.

Okay. Very good.

Thank you very much. Any other questions or comments from members of the committee? (No response.) Hearing none --

I have a question. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: What an entrance.

Ayyy, South Philly smooth, slide right in there. Chair recognizes Councilmember Squilla.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Chair recognizes Chair of Appropriations.

Thank you, Commissioners. I know you have to go and I'm not going to belabor this point. But I do want to say one thing, I appreciate that possible policy change in that when working with Clean and Seals, that we normally board up the properties. But then when there's police involved, for people breaking down the boarded-up properties and things like that, is it possible to have a policy where they do use masonry to seal these buildings so that people don't continue to go back in? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Yes. Actually, in conjunction with the police department we just really recently created this policy where, if we're working with the police department on a property on a block, that they consider a nuisance for whatever behavior, legal activity, whatever's going on, we're going directly with the police department to do the masonry seal, so that people don't keep breaking into the same property over and over and over again.

And do we have an estimated cost of what it costs to seal these properties, then reseal over the years? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: I don't have that off the top my head. I can get that to you.

Because I mean, it's a major cost to the City of Philadelphia. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: I don't think it's a major cost because we've been doing it pretty successfully in different areas. And it's not like anyone told me stop spending money on all the brick-and-mortars. I think we're okay. I think --

Excuse me one second, Commissioner. Councilmember Jim Harrity for a point of information.

Point of information. Why do we not use the same as the -- have you seen the Housing Authority ones, dog or whatever, it's a d-a-w-g? They have them in my neighborhood on their properties. You can't get in them things. I haven't seen the backs of the houses, what they do back in the back, but -- yeah, it's called dawg. When they put it together, them things are over the door frame. You can't even get the door frame out. I mean, them things are fantastic. I imagine they're expensive -- COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: So we've looked into them. You have to rent them and they are super expensive.

Why can't you just buy them? COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: This brick-and-mortar was the solution we came up with and it's actually been successful so far. But we looked into that immediately because we thought, you know, why not, and it just wasn't feasible. Yeah, I'm with you. They're --

Yeah, I was just thinking that they would be better for emergencies. Like when you brick and mortar them up, if there's a fire in there anyway -- COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: Oh, I cleared this with Fire, trust me, before we did this. I absolutely got the okay from Fire.

All right. That's all.

Chair recognizes Councilmember Squilla.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And the last thing is on permitting with the eCLIPSE. And I know the process, everything is online now to apply. When there is specific concerns and complaints, you guys are great with our office. But is there a representative at L&I or somebody that basic individuals can just call to walk through that process when they're trying to get a permit? Because if you do call Council office, they could help you and guide you and you guys are great. But it's hard for some people to navigate through that process. And I just thought if there was somebody --

Even an Ivy League graduate such as myself. It's rough sometimes.

Right, it's a challenge. I mean, I don't know if we could create a position or somebody who could help folks walk through that process and guide them. Because L&I is not there to give advice or to tell you what you need, but they are there to say, hey, this didn't work, I can't get this, I can't get through. Because then sometimes you can't get a permit because maybe there's not a tax clearance or you have a violation you didn't know about, and then we can't find out what that violation is, where that person could just guide them and say, oh, this is your problem, this is what you need to fix. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Councilman, we have our remote support folks down in the concourse that are accessible and can be very responsive when it comes to issues like that. And of course, if all else fails, just reach out to our office and --

I mean, you're great when we reach out. I mean, but if they don't go to that site, there's no play -- can you call and talk to somebody? COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: I think you go online, you make an appointment and remote support will be in touch with you to kind of work out your issues.

All right. I was thinking maybe we could talk about it and find a way to just make it more accessible. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: There's also a chat function that they use for those issues. There's a chat --

I think you got to read the room on this one. You're talking about bridging the digital divide, right, and everybody may not be savvy to navigate the eCLIPSE system, right. I'm thinking about Mr. Wilson, who owned like four or five, maybe six properties, right, long-term resident in the neighborhood. He's not technically savvy, right, because he grew up in an age where the internet or computers weren't a thing. It was you would go and talk to your committee person, right. Mr. Bill Barrett, and Mr. Bill Barrett is the Congress person, but he would make it work through Anna Verna, right. And so now, in a different day and age where everything is automated and is online so just building that bridge and -

(Inaudible).

-- digital divide. If they do go to somebody -- you understand I'm saying, right? COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Yes.

And somebody to just walking them through -- and that was a great point where Mark said, well, you can have a tax issue, you can have a violation, you may not even know about it, but when you go through that process, that human person can still say, hey, let me walk you through and find out what exactly it is and go from there. And that's something I think this body would fund if y'all accept the money this time around. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: I will say we do have field offices too that people do walk into --

You have a couple of them. COMMISSIONER COLLINS- GREENWALD: -- quite often. Yeah, we have a few field offices. Some for Basil's side, some for our side, people walk in. We do have a physical presence in the Neighborhood Action Centers, the Mayor's thing. So we do have some folks there. But I totally get what you're saying. COMMISSIONER MIRANDA: Lisa Adams, who's our liaison with Council, goes out on a regular basis to the city's town halls.

We just want to push on just that one last part, humbly that one person that could say --

A liaison with Council.

I like that, a liaison for Councilmembers to say -- no, we're dead serious about that. That might be the next level of how we continue to make sure we're improving that customer service. And so, Mr. Appropriations Chair, how about you put that on part of negotiations with the Administration and see how we could be supportive, if you would sign off on it --

He's got to go talk to them first.

Well, after you have a conversation with them. Listen, we're wrapping up and thank you for your time, the two of you. Any other questions or comments from members of the committee? (No response.)

Okay. Hearing none, the Chair recognizes Councilmember Jamie Gauthier for a motion that the public hearing and the meeting on the bills and resolutions before the committee today stand in recess until Tuesday, April 14, 2026 at 10:00 a.m.

So moved. (Duly seconded.)

It has been moved and properly seconded that the public hearing and meeting on the bills and resolution before the committee today stand in recess until Tuesday, April 14th at 10:00 a.m. All those in favor signify by saying aye. (Aye.)

Anybody opposed? (No response.)

The ayes have it and the motion carries. The committee will stand in recess until Tuesday, April 14th at 10:00 a.m., which we will reconvene. Thank you. (Committee of the Whole concluded at 4:05 p.m.) C E R T I F I C A T I O N I, hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence noted are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me in the foregoing matter, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. ________________________________ TANEHA CARROLL