Thank you very much. 2217 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
I, like my colleagues, am interested in the level of minority participation. Do you get recommendations from your Contract Compliance, Inc. on good faith recommendations, good faith efforts? Who is it that gives you information on what you consider a good, good faith effort?
We have a unit actually within our operation, we have a Small Business Development Unit. And those individuals are responsible for our DBE program. To the degree that something comes in and the goal is not met, that unit works with the bidding contractors to supply DBE firms that they can talk to, et cetera. And they monitor and have ongoing discussions with those primes. So we have a unit within SEPTA that is the primary focus for getting DBE numbers.
How long have you had this unit? 2218 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Can we get a 5 report -- I know you said in the last two years, I 6 believe, you've had 18 percent. 7
That's been our goal that we 8 actually publish and send to the federal government 9 as our goal for that year. 10
Can we look at 11 maybe the last four years to do a comparison of what 12 18 percent means now versus what was happening two, 13 three years ago? 14
I'm not sure I understand. 15 You want, for four years our DBE goal and sort of 16 looking at it to date, what we would have done four 17 years ago? 18
Okay. So just four years of 21 the goal and what the groups would have been. Now, 22 I'm not so sure -- I know the last couple of years 23 we have a lot of detailed information because we've 24 been tracking it in more detail. I'm not sure how 25 much is available for the first two years that you 2219 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET mentioned, but we'll send you what we have.
Because we'd just like to be able to look at the numbers to track progress, or lack of. I want to leave the minority contracting information for a minute and talk about snow removal. Does SEPTA have a snow removal plan, particularly for the overpasses, the bridges and whatnot? Because I have a lot of overpasses in my district that actually we have problems with.
Now, I'm not sure every overpass is ours, but, yes, we have a snow removal plan.
Well, some of the ones that I called the Streets Department about, particularly those that were near schools -- and I'll get you a list so we can determine whether it's SEPTA or whether it's Streets Department. Some of those were SEPTA's. But the Streets Department did remove the snow because children were walking in the street and whatnot to get to school. And I just want to know, do you have a snow removal plan; and, if you do, can you describe it somewhat to us now?
I cannot describe it. Yes, 2220 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET we have a plan, but I can't describe it, so we'll have to get back in touch with you.
Because I think that's a question that a lot of people have because, especially once schools opened, after this last storm, there was -- and I don't think you're miracle workers and I'm not expecting that. However, there were some concerns.
Yes. I will call Frances and give her those streets. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you. Good evening. Maybe I misheard part of the response. There was a question that Councilman Ortiz asked, who had the contract for MSW; was that the question? I remember the response that some contractor had not been chosen?
Because I know that they're working out in my area. Driscoll Company is out there and as you know, many of you, 2221 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET when we were in Harrisburg yesterday, there was a tour yesterday with the press and some other members of the project and in terms of -- some of the reason I think we have problems are that, rightly or wrongly, some people in the community, for example, Ms. Basemore (ph)-- I'm sure Frances knows her -- says that the community was promised some of the small jobs, that they would be sublet to them and that they would have an opportunity to work. This whole issue of minority participation has just become so big because as we strive to do NTI and other neighborhood projects, and people don't see their neighbors working, they're upset. And that's only natural. I think that's the bottom line. Contracts have to include -- people have to see their own neighbors working or we're going to have a problem. It's that way now. That's the problem here and it's the problem across the board in the City. That's my own assessment of what's going on. Understand too, that there's a meeting scheduled for Thursday and that's going to be, frankly -- and I understand it just came up yesterday, but that's going to be impossible. I have three other affairs dealing with budget stuff. That's going to be 2222 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET impossible for me. Even though I obviously want to be involved, I think that the fact that the issue has hit the news media in a big way is good. I think that I'm hoping that ultimately will help the community because attention focused somehow often makes people all do even better when they know that the world is looking in on them. Certainly in West Philadelphia, I think from the beginning if ever there is a contract for people to do neighborhood work, neighborhood inclusion, I think that that group should always come from the existing community. I don't believe we would have so many problems -- you can't supplant groups in neighborhoods and think it's going to work. You can't pull somebody from West Oak Lane to 52nd Street or from Delaware Avenue to 60th Street and think it's going to work. You've got to deal with the people and the organizations that are in place. And so, I mean, hindsight is always 20/20, but I think that in spite of money spent on those contracts, I think conflict was built in. And furthermore, I would again say that we talked about having hearings. We had that introduced quite sometime ago, in fact, before my 2223 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET mother passed, I guess in the fall, we introduced a resolution calling for hearings to deal with how we help our neighborhood businesses. And in neighborhoods, businesses are in real trouble because their clientele, their clients, people who shop their businesses live in maybe three to six to ten blocks of that business. We've got big problems in West Philly from to 46th to 63rd because of the fact that businesses certainly are not getting the attention that they need and we are asking SEPTA if you would focus in on more advertising on the El, other facilities that run. We know that we've purveyed upon you to open up the sidewalks so that shoppers can walk down the streets. But we're requesting for Easter, not as part of the issue of advertising, that you also do additional advertising on buses, Els and other facilities that run so that they know that the stores are open and that we do what we can to not only advertise for that one day -- and I know we've been through this many, many times and I'll ask you to respond. And I'll say to my colleagues, we've been through the issue many, many times about what we do for neighborhood businesses because SEPTA always tells me, "We're 2224 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET SEPTA. " And obviously we as elected officials represent everybody and we have to try to help our businesses who are failing and can't sustain a six-year plan.
We've already prevailed upon the City to get a 50 percent match for facade treatment, but that's when the construction is over. That won't get us through the long haul. And we're asking in addition to your helping us with parking and we're asking that you make that a little stronger for a transfer of properties to the City so that we could have neighborhood parking when the project is gone so that we're assured of that. But we're also asking that you consider at this time help to neighborhood businesses that won't violate you but certainly help us. So, in other words, we still need, in addition to Easter advertising, we need some additional advertising to let neighborhood people know, whether it be fliers where we could have neighborhood people do that and advertising across the board, to let people know that our neighborhood businesses are open. If we can't do it directly, 2225 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET since we can't get direct subsidy to the neighborhood businesses, we're asking that you help us advertise even further that the businesses are still open.
We'll work that out with Portfolio and Baker, but it seems reasonable that we should be able to do that.
And then one final thing, let me ask before I relinquish the mike. And that is, we also want to ask you if you would consider hiring safety ambassadors. That may help as well. In West Philadelphia we have, for example, University City District that has safety ambassadors. It would help so that people would know -- they give directions. They let people know where stores are. They make sure they're safe. And then it would also employ a few neighborhood people. They would be called safety ambassadors. And we're happy to work with you individually on, you know, their earnings and that sort of thing.
Yes. Thank you. 2226 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon. Let me first follow-up on Councilwoman Blackwell's quote and statement. And her quote was that hindsight is 20/20. So given the circumstance that we currently face in West Philadelphia, if we could replay the tape, rewind it, what would SEPTA do differently? Or what might SEPTA suggest with regards to this relationship with the community? What would you do differently?
Well, I'm not sure I have that much hindsight, but part of the limitations that we have continues to be -- obviously we can't. Within our federal guidelines we can't dictate that we only hire people from one geographic area or another one. So that will continue to be a problem in any project that we're going to have. Because in using, again, federal money, you can't have geographic preferences. That includes vendors as well as employment area codes, zip codes, et cetera. But I guess part of what we could do, is, again, the 2227 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET awareness, the advertising, seeing what smaller things could be done that might be in our jurisdiction that we could do. The safety ambassadors, on the surface, it sounds like a good idea. We have to look into it and see what's involved. But those items where we could engage a small population of the immediate area that's impacted, they have knowledge of the area, they would know detours, et cetera, so that could make some sense.
Can I just comment on that? You said the federal rules are omnipotent, I guess the word would be, in spite of the fact that the State's portion is 76 percent subsidy for SEPTA compared with 30 percent subsidy for the federal government, or are you speaking specifically about the dollars that come for the contracts?
Yes, that project. Eighty percent of that project's dollars come from federal government. And 3 1/3 percent would come from local, with 16 2/3 coming from the State. So you can see the State could also have a problem with just geographic preference for one ZIP code. The federal government, obviously, has a problem if we 2228 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET limit it to one state or one area since their dollars come from across the country. So we have two barriers to geographic preferences.
Is there any flexibility? What is the philosophical position of the Board as it relates to putting people to work from the community who pay taxes and are unemployed because they can't get jobs and this being a major economic development boom unprecedented for the area, what is the philosophical position of the board?
But I will tell you that part of what they counsel us almost at every board meeting is, we have to adhere to rules and regulations, especially the federal. Since this project is so big, to jeopardize the loss of federal money jeopardizes the project. So clearly we don't want to jeopardize the opportunity to do some good in that area. 2229 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
In addition to raising awareness more efficiently and effectively, what else would you re-do given the benefit if you have a chance to rewind the tape?
Well, I'm not so sure we're at a point yet to rewind. We're still learning. Every day we come up with items that we have to look at. We sort of, at different points in projects, sort of step back and look back to see if we could have done things differently. We did the same thing at Frankford for the Transportation Center. That's when it dawned on us we needed more community outreach. We're probably doing more community outreach for the west side than we've ever done. We have three or four consultants and everybody working hard to try to get information out. So that was the lesson we learned from looking back at Frankford Transportation Center. So at any point we take a look back and sort of see what could we have done differently. I am sure this is an ongoing process where everyday we're looking back to see what could we have done a little different than we're doing.
And for the record, how long is this project expected to last? 2230 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
2007. Everything complete, stations, everything, 2007 it would be over.
And given how projects like this go, how many setbacks have you had already, in terms of benchmarks with your timeline because that really drives whether we end up at 2007 or 2008 or 2010.
The project managers tell me that if financing stays in place, given they have a master timeline, that master timeline is being adhered to as long as financing stays in place, they expect to adhere to that master timeline. The slippage that could occur, we don't have that flexibility in this one. So the project managers are being pretty diligent on making sure that the contractors, subcontractors, everybody adheres to deadlines.
And you use that scary word "if." What would put financing at risk?
Well, if for whatever reason, we have to do bids -- like the five stations. The five station bids come in at $200 million, and we had $100 million budgeted then we have $100 million that we'd have to find. With 2231 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET reduced funding on several fronts, I'm not sure where we'd get it from. So it's that type of hiccup that might occur that we hope will not occur.
Let me move to another area that I am more interested in. I share collectively the sentiment of my colleagues around the whole world of minority contracting and where we are and where we are not. So I join that chorus. You state in your mission statement, and I quote, "To provide transportation services that enhance the quality of life to strengthen the SEPTA organization by becoming an essential partner in the community." So given that and Philadelphia's contribution of 53 percent, there's no discussion of young people, students, in your testimony. What is the percentage of student ridership?
I think we have about 60,000. And that's across the region, so it's not just Philadelphia.
60,000 students. In my first two years there was a lot of discussion concerning the school token issue. Tell us where you are now with that.
Effective July 2001 -- and, 2232 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET again, I caution the internal SEPTA people, if I raise my hand and say something, correct me. But effective 2001 we introduced the ComPass Program that we had offered to corporations to the school districts. So as of July 1, 2001 they were eligible for the ComPass discount, which is about 5 percent.
Given the, in my personal point of view, the exciting, long overdue reform that's happening at the School District and given the advocacy that our new superintendent does regularly on behalf of students, might you ever envision a day where we could give our students passes? Because there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that suggests that many of our students are so poor they can't afford to come to school and, therefore, they miss school.
Well, I have two prohibitions. One, I have a federal prohibition that tells me I cannot transport school kids. I should not be the primary carrier for school kids. We sort of -- not stretch it -- but we are allowed to have what we call trippers, so short distances. So we pick up some school kids at the end of a trip or the beginning of a trip, therefore, we call it 2233 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET trippers. But the basic route cannot be designed to transport school kids. In addition to that, I have on the state level, a prohibition for letting anyone ride free. So, you can see, I have two hands tied behind two backs.
So this new initiative you expect to implement July 1 --
Okay, then. Thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Mariano.
Thank you. Hi, Ms. Moore. Ms. Moore, I came in here at the end of Councilwoman Tasco's questioning, but there was a couple interesting things, and I think Councilwoman Blackwell touched on it, so if it's repeated, bear with me. If a contractor wins a bid for a job, SEPTA's not the prime contractor. SEPTA is just building something?
You're the owner, right. Say, Rizzo Contracting wins. They sub it out to the subs. Who's responsible for the women and minority participation, the generals or the sub?
We contract with the prime, so the prime is responsible to SEPTA.
So if a prime doesn't meet the minority participation goals for women and minorities, are they ever banned from bidding SEPTA work again?
I did sort of address that one. If they've shown a good faith effort, it becomes almost impossible for us to ban them. They are monitored. They are pulled in repeatedly. As I mentioned, we have a small business unit that is in constant communication. They have to send in monthly reports. So there is a constant monitoring to see where they stand with the DBEs.
So, if I understand what you told Councilwoman Blackwell, you really can't do it by neighborhood. So if you were building it in Frankford or in West Philly, if most of the people that lived in West Philadelphia -- and believe me, I understand probably some of the 2235 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET reasons why, but I think what everyone misses here, is this job is going to be a five-year job. There's probably a resident in that area that may be coming from TOP/WIN that needs to get an entree into one of the trades. And not just one of the basic trades, one of the mechanical trades, electricians, steam fitters, sprinkler fitters, whatever. So if a woman goes to that course, TOP/WIN, and -- what's that, a year? And that prepares her to take the test, now, we're a year into this project. She may be the neighborhood resident that everybody wants to have. By the time she gets into the apprentice program you may be in year two of this project. She becomes an apprentice and then she's in year three. A four or five-year program. Now, does anybody monitor this particular individual's existence in one of these programs? I mean, the stuff that Councilwoman Blackwell mentioned is nice and all, but I would rather see a woman or anyone get in a basic trade. When this project is done, and we're all dead and gone, that young man or woman could possibly learn a trade that could teach them to make $70, $80,000. Hopefully, they keep living in Philadelphia and 2236 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET don't go move to Jersey, which is very much the case. But I think there is a little bit of responsibility of SEPTA. And the little bit I do know about this, and most of it is from the seat of my pants, you know, being in the building trades and working for a union at once, I think a lot of the stuff here, is stuff we overlook. And we overlook it because once that project is done, nobody in West Philly is interested in what's happening. Now, I just sat through that whole Frankford thing -- and Councilman Goode, who worked for the City at the beginning, so we talked about this before he was Councilman. And this happens now, I'm sure. There's someone in Frankford that may have gotten into one of the unions, Ms. X, we'll say. She may be close to becoming a journeyman in one of the trades. She should still be able to get work on the job in West Philly. Because I got to tell you, if you become an electrician -- and I can speak for that -- if you're working specifically SEPTA work, that's a lot of heavy pipe laden work that any apprentice would want to know how to do. Now, it's not something that happens a whole lot, but it could really fine tune them to become a good 2237 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET master mechanic and have a good field of expertise. The other stuff you can always learn. But if SEPTA can't take responsibility and if the federal government tells you you're only responsible for this much -- and I venture to say a lot of the minority participation in my guess of the world is minority supply houses. Does that count?
You could, depending what supplies you have. But we have steel manufacturers, steel fabricators, so we have DBEs that have significant, meaningful positions in that contract.
Is there a way that SEPTA or us, as a body, or maybe the State or the federal government can tighten that up? I mean, enough is enough. We should be getting people that live in those neighborhoods and people that have a different complexion than mine into them trades and it should be happening. And it's happening, but not fast enough for anyone in this room or probably anyone listening to this. It has to happen. And it's not totally all SEPTA's fault. But if SEPTA, being the agency that's getting Frankford and West Philly probably -- Congressman Borski brought all that money to the table and I remember -- you said 2238 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET some figure, 79 percent was federal money. If the federal government can't step in and say, "Look, this is where it is, and this is where it has to be in 5 years, this is where it has to be in 10 years," because we can picket the building trades and we can do whatever we want to do, but it's still not going to do anything unless there are young people that have a taste of that maybe through some of these charter schools. Believe me, that's not an easy job. It's not an easy job for a young man, let alone a young woman to be out in the cold on a SEPTA site bending pipes, getting your hands dirty. It wears on your body. That's why I'm so short and ugly from doing that for all those years. It takes a long time. Again, there's women, I'm sure, who want to be in that. How did we get to this point? I mean, it's not SEPTA's responsibility. But it is. It's not my responsibility. But it is. And it's your responsibility and everybody's in this room. And we come here year after year. And I sit back for seven years and watch this go on and go, "You know what? Now, it's time. It's time for us all to sit back and see what we could do." 2239 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET I don't know if Congress has to make you do more things. I don't know if the building trades itself has to do better recruiting in the neighborhoods. If I was 47 years old -- I'm 47 years old -- there's no way I could start going through apprentice school, work every day in the cold, go to apprentice school at night, raise a family of young children, and expect to do well. It's a lot easier when you're 20, 21, 22, years 11 old. It's not easy when you're 45, 46, and 47. 12 Although there's no age requirement. 13 So, my point of all this is, what can we 14 do? What can SEPTA do and how can we help you? 15
Needless to say, I've been 16 thinking about this one myself. Because I agree 17 that the issue itself is bigger than just SEPTA. We 18 have just over the last two or three weeks started 19 pulling what we view to be -- I wouldn't call it a 20 coalition, because it hasn't gelled into a 21 coalition, but there are three or four other 22 agencies that have construction jobs going on, et 23 cetera. So we've met to kick some things around to see what can be done differently. Part of our dilemma has to start with 2240 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the federal government because they don't have to tell us to do something. They need to give us greater flexibility in order to do something, so there really does have to be some basic rules and regulations that have to get changed. But it also is a combination of, how are we training. How are they accepted in the trades. How are the trades selecting them for assignment to jobs, even. So all those items. And while we can be a player, it is an issue that is significantly bigger than just at SEPTA.
And, you know, another thing that amazes me is the federal government can ban a contractor from bidding on any SEPTA work because it's federal money because they may have cheated somewhere else in the country by not paying the Davis-Bacon Act, but they can't ban them by not doing a minority and women participation. That boggles my mind. And I'm sure there's greater minds than mine down in Washington that should be figuring this out. Thank you for your honesty. And if there's anything I can, or anything we can do, please keep in touch. Maybe we could have some kind 2241 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET of study group that can look into this. And finally, once and for all, maybe by the time I'm out of Council, which may be sooner that later, we can sit back and watch this, what happens. Thank you, Ms. Moore.
We are kicking some things around that over the next couple of weeks hopefully we'll have something similar to what you're saying, so we'll keep your name close by.
At this time, the Chair recognize Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Ms. Moore. When I came in -- and I apologize for going back over some of this territory. I believe you were responding to a question from Councilwoman Tasco, and I did not understand a part of the response, so I need to go back over that. I continue to hear you make reference to 18 percent. This was in a colloquy regarding contracting. And I could not figure out what the 18 percent applied to. So could you go back to that area and explain that, please? 2242 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Yearly, as part of our reporting process to the federal government, we have to develop a DBE goal. We send it in probably in September, October of every year.
The goal is percent. 9 Out of that 18 percent you can satisfy that goal by 10 a mixture of one of any 10 DBE categories. 11
African American male, 14 African American female, white female, Asian, 15 Pacific. So you have different ethnic groups that 16 fall in the definition of DBE, small businesses 17 minority businesses, et cetera. So we establish 18 that any of the dollars we are going to use for construction and construction-related services would be 18 percent DBE goal.
It is a goal developed by SEPTA. We look at our own vendor list. We look at our DBEs that have been certified. It's more 2243 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET complicated than that, but I like to do the simple way. Then we sort of estimate what we think our construction dollars will be for that next year and we say, based on everything else and the formula, about percent of that should be for DBE firms. 7
I think expenditures would 10 have been about $160 million. $140 million. 11
And how does the 12 amount that you're going to expend play into the 13 equation of what your goal number is? What does the 14 one have to do with the other? 15
Well, you have to have some 16 basis on how many dollars you think you're going to 17 award or spend during the year or you don't have any 18 idea of what to apply the percentage against. So every year -- as part of our normal capital process we look at on a cash flow basis what we expect to expend throughout the organization for a year. Part of that, I guess, forward-looking is what we expect to spend in capital dollars.
I understand that. I guess I'm still trying to understand the concept 2244 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET of how much you have to spend influences what the actual goal is. How does the one affect the other?
Well, it doesn't necessarily change how the goal is set. It is applied against the dollars we expect so we can get some flavor for the dollars that would be expended.
Let me go back again, then. Where did the percent number come 10 from? What is that based on? 11
Internally developed, based 12 on the vendors that we have and we have all these 13 special little codes that they have. I don't know 14 whether that would mean anything for you. But all 15 these folks are being broken into different 16 specialties. You take those specialties and you 17 look at the DBE firms that we have identified within 18 those areas of specialty and you just compare the two. So depending on their relationship --
Excuse me, Councilman Nutter. I guess the question Councilman is asking, posed another way is, are you doing the same type of 2245 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET development work every year and is it the same amount of availability of minority contractors? Why is the percent flat? Is the work the same? Is 5 the availability of contractors the same? Why is 6 there a flat number of 18 percent? 7
So the availability 10 of minority contractors does not change from year 11 to year? 12
Well, given the scope of 13 work that we had with the biggest piece of dollars 14 expected, the Market Elevated, the scope of work 15 pretty much dictated the general nature of the 16 primes. 17
When the original 18 contract was let, it was at 18 percent and so it has not changed under the contract, although the availability of minority contractors may have changed during the course of the contract?
The 18 percent is an Authority goal. That is not a contract goal at all. So we have a big umbrella of an Authority goal --
Is the availability 2246 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET of minority contractors on transportation-related construction increasing, decreasing? Is it flat? What is it? I think that's what Councilman Nutter is asking.
That's a part of it. I mean, I still don't understand where the comes 8 from, versus 19, 20, 14. I mean, just where does 9 that number come from? 10
Why is it a flat 11 number? Is it based upon the availability of 12 minority contractors? 13
Okay. I have Cecil Bond, 14 who is going to give you more information about 15 DBEs. 16
My name is Cecil Bond. I'm 17 Assistant General Manager of Business Services. 18 In the Minority Business Program, we set an annual goal every year. It may fluctuate between 18, 16 and 15 percent. The way the goal is set is we look at the number of contracts that are going to be awarded -- we think are going to be awarded the next year. We also look at the number -- we have a database that tells us the number of vendors that may bid on those contracts. Then we look at the 2247 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET number of certified firms that can perform in the various disciplines for those various contracts. So for an example, if there was an escalator being installed, there are very few minority firms that we know of that are in our directory that would qualify to do escalator work. On the other hand, if there's demolition, those types of disciplines, then we would set goals based on those disciplines and the dollar amounts assigned to the various disciplines under each contract. And each contract is reviewed based on the disciplines that are available and then based on the number of minority firms that are available. We try to match those firms that are available based on the dollar amount of the various disciplines in the total contract. So each contract has a separate goal. We don't have a standard goal that we set on all contracts. So we review each contract. Our Small Business Department reviews every contract. We determine the number of disciplines, we determine the dollar amount of those disciplines, and then we find the number of minority firms that are available to perform in those disciplines. And there's formula on how the goal is calculated. 2248 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
That figure varies between 400 and maybe 500. A lot depends on -- some days it's just like a telephone directory. You have people whose certification expires and has to be renewed. We do have a database. It's all computerized. We send notices out to all the DBE firms of every contract that's going to be bidded, for which they have an opportunity. If those firms are named as a part of the bid package, we will notify the DBE firms that they've been named for this particular discipline of work and for this particular dollar amount on every contract.
They have to be named as part of the bid package. It's a participation schedule that is --
How many of the 400 to 500 firms participated on SEPTA contracts last year?
I don't have that number in front of me, but we can get that number for you. 2249 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
I would be afraid to guess. But I would say somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 contractors.
No. The 18 percent is an 10 Authority goal. That goal takes into account 11 professional services, small procurements, et 12 cetera. So it's an overall umbrella Authority goal 13 that we aim, as an Authority, to satisfy. 14 In addition to that, we have a 15 contract-by-contract goal established, and that's 16 where it goes in with specific DBEs. 17
I understand. Let's 18 stay with the overall Authority goal of 18 percent. What was the actual performance last year?
Eighteen percent. We satisfied the goal. I'm sorry. And that's one the items that's been requested that we're sending over.
Is that a coincidence? Is that by sheer luck? Is that by magic? Your goal was 18. You met 18. 2250 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Very good. I mean, just as we kind of play this out, is it possible that if you had set the goal last year at 20, you would have possibly hit 20?
But the goal isn't arbitrary. The goal is developed from bottom up. So it's a realistic goal of expectations for what type of services we are going to be doing or contracts we're going to be awarding the next year.
So from your perspective, it was just excellent estimating and analysis that allowed you to set an percent goal 16 and you hit it at 18.2? 17
I'd love to say that by 18 itself. But it is also a lot of people working really hard to make sure that four contracts, all DBE firms that we know about, we send information. We have a Small Business Unit that's actively engaged with our small business enterprises. We also have a really active certification program, so that group is always trying to certify new small businesses. So it's a lot of effort that went 2251 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET behind it too, not just the estimating process.
Well, I understand that. Why don't we just take a chance this year or next year, and say instead of the 18, make it 20? I mean, I thought a goal was something that you are -- I mean, it's a little possibly beyond your grasp and that you really push the system and push an envelope to make something happen. I mean, are you saying that it's maxed at and that there's just not 11 enough work force out there to do anything more than 12 18 percent and it is what it is and we should just 13 accept it? 14
For the goal that was 15 established, for any of the goals we establish, we 16 also as part of that process must submit it to the 17 federal government for the federal government's 18 review and approval prior to implementation. So they review the way we compile the information. They do a critical check of whether or not we have been too aggressive or not aggressive enough, et cetera. So it's a pretty regimented process that we have to send to them.
Well, I understand that. So are you saying that if you sent them 20, 2252 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET because you were going to push hard for that and the feds went through all their analysis and said, "No, it's 18." What are they going to do?
They'll tell us it's 18. If there's no basis for the percent, if I just 7 pulled the number out of my hat, and said I want a 8 25 percent goal, and I send it to them, and I don't 9 have the basis for forming 25 percent, they will 10 reject the goal. They will also freeze our funding. 11
Is this based on 12 Executive Order that you reference in your 13 testimony? 14
What is that based 16 on? This is on every SEPTA contract? 17
The DBE goal itself, the 18 overall DBE goal that you're talking about? 19
It is a SEPTA goal that we developed that is based on federal guidelines.
It's not just an Executive 2253 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Order. It's in the statute.
I'd like you to forward to the Chair a copy of the statute. So you're saying that SEPTA's contracting guidelines are established by federal statute?
I'd be very interested to read that. Your testimony, though, also makes reference to an Executive Order. How does that come into play?
The Executive Order is the order where the federal government establishes certain goals itself. You know, we mention that there are contract goals that we establish. But then there are goals that the federal government establishes on behalf of all transit users, minority work hour goals. And those are the goals that are mentioned --
Work hour goals. That's at 6.9 percent and then at 17.3 percent that's 2254 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET referenced in the testimony.
I saw that. Is that for the whole country or is that just for Philadelphia?
Yes. Anybody that takes federal money, especially Federal Transit Administration Money, follows those EEO goals.
If they have construction dollars, they should be following the same goal.
So regardless of jurisdiction, regardless of the demographics of the population, there's one set of goals for the entire United States of America on federal construction projects?
That is my understanding. Again, this is for EEO. This is for minority work hour goals, but yes.
Right. This is based on the Executive Order you referenced in your 2255 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET testimony?
Yes, sir. I'm saying yes, but I'd be shocked if I cannot. But, yes.
No, it's not. That's why I say I'd be shocked if I couldn't send it. So, yes. Yes, I can.
How many contracts did SEPTA let last year for professional services, supplies, services and equipment, and Public Works contracts?
I have no idea. We'll have to get it to you. We have a vendor file in excess of 4,000; 4,500 vendors. We'd have to pull that for you.
And this was the $140 million that you made reference to earlier in terms of contracts?
The $140 million is construction-related dollars. 2256 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
So the entire amount of contracts would be more than $140 million?
You may have been asked this before. You'll tell me if you have. I'd like to see a list of all of the contractors working on the Market Street El project; who they are, what service they're providing, and the amount of their contract.
Yes. I'd also like a list, not by name, but by Zip code, of the people working on the project, as well. You've made reference to neighborhood employment goals and a wide variety of other pieces of information. I'd like to be able to make a determination of the total number of people from Philadelphia, as well as non-Philadelphians, if you have non-Philadelphians in the file, I'd like those further delineated by whether they are in the Pennsylvania suburbs or other states or jurisdictions around us. Are their people from other states working on the SEPTA El project? 2257 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Councilwoman Tasco, I believe, earlier asked you about participants in the DAP program, which is highlighted in your testimony, as well as TOP/WIN. How many people last year came to SEPTA through the DAP program?
The training for those programs just started November, December of last year. So we have not had a graduating class yet from either one of them.
This is not the first time you've used the program, is it?
Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Councilman Nutter. With respect to the DAP program, are you saying that you can only access the individuals that are coming out in the classes being trained now? Because my understanding is, there's approximately 2258 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET 150 people -- and there could be more -- that have already gone through a rigorous training program for various trades. Could you not access those individuals?
For the DAP. What I'm saying is the classes that have been identified based on the outreach that we've received just started in November. DAP does have an ongoing program.
Correct. Of which there have been a substantial amount of graduates?
You don't have to way for the existing class to graduate when you already have individuals that have graduated through the DAP program.
And one of which was in my office earlier this morning who's looking for work. And I can give you resume before you leave. It's my understanding that there's pool of individuals who have gone through that process that should be able to be accessed now, and you not have 2259 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET to wait until the current class graduates.
For DAP, yes. I think the question, though, was what's the track record for those programs. We can provide information, obviously for those programs while we're looking at it. But DAP has a separate program that, yes, can become eligible for work on Market Elevated, but DAP has to give you those statistics.
Maybe I misunderstood the question. I thought Councilman was asking about -- correct me, please, Councilman, if I'm incorrect. I thought the question was, in this process, how do you anticipate accessing individuals from the DAP program. And I thought your response was, that there's a class that's being trained by DAP currently and you anticipate soliciting individuals from that class once they graduate. My response was that we've already had a number of individuals who have already graduated from the DAP program, so why don't we simply access those individuals who have graduated and are seeking employment opportunities?
And you can. I thought the question was, what is our track record for those 2260 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET two programs. And with the programs starting November or December of last year for our particular sections, we don't have a track record yet because they're still in class. DAP does have a track record and DAP can place individuals in their apprenticeship programs, et cetera.
Councilman Nutter, I have a follow-up to Councilman Darryl Clarke's question. Your response was, yes, you can use individuals who have successfully graduated from DAP in the Market Street Program, correct?
Of individuals who 2261 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET have already been through the program and are currently employed by one of the contractors currently on the Market Street SEPTA project?
And if there is some reluctance to give it to us, we'll put the request that they send it directly to Council, if there is some hesitation.
That since DAP is an agency outside of SEPTA, we can make the request to them. If there is some degree of hesitation on their part, we'll ask that they provide the information directly to Council. I don't know why there might be, but they're not our agency, so we can't tell them, you must give me this information for me to send it on.
But DAP is not my program. So, again, I'm going to make the request and I'm just giving you a hedge that if for whatever reason -- 2262 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
This is the Market Street Elevated being run by SEPTA?
What's the level of involvement? I guess I'll ask that question. Your testimony says, through the initiatives of local elected officials, two outreach programs for construction employment opportunities have been established for the Market Street El project. Diversified Apprenticeship Program, DAP, offering job preparedness testing for individuals seeking access to union apprenticeship programs, and the Tradeswomen of Purpose/Women in Non-Traditional Work, TOP/WIN, which helps community residents with little or no construction labor skills to get job training. Now, what's SEPTA's role with either of 2263 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET those two programs in ensuring that people who come into those programs, or people who access SEPTA directly have an opportunity to participate in any projects, whether it's Market Street El or -- I mean, you guys do other construction work besides the Market Street El.
I'll start it and then I'll pass it over to Francis. I just want to, again, remind folks that throughout outreach we take a group of names -- well, I won't get into that detail. I'll let Francis do that. But both TOP/WIN and DAP are agencies separate and distinct from SEPTA.