Well, can we get a promise from you that you will be subject to recall by City Council to be questioned on that? It isn't enough for us to have you briefed by your staff. It isn't enough for us to have you write us a memo enclosing the briefing by your staff. What's important is for us to begin get answers. That's been a problem for years. We hear again that somebody -- we don't know whether it s the State or City is supposed to do something beginning first it was March, now it's may. We have know idea because 2307 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET we went through the same thing last year and nothing was done. But we'd like to know why did SEPTA not pull the tracks up originally? Why did they leave this in such a deteriorated state because you have drivers on road every day, and it must be doing a lot of damage also to your buses and that's a big public expenditure. So do we have your agreement that you will be back here to tell us about the situation on Ogontz Avenue at the call of the President of the Council.
Now, I will tell you on the first part, we did not pull up the tracks because there was always the ongoing discussion about whether or not trollies would be back on that area or not.
Well, I don't know where there was discussion. No one ever discussed it with me. And I think I've been there since the 17th Ward was founded in 1965. There's never been any effort by SEPTA to raise the question with me or with any of the community organizations in the area. 2308 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET So maybe there was a question in somebody's mind somewhere, but if you find information about that, please do, because the people have never raised -- I've never heard the question raised by residents of the area asking that trolley tracks be reinserted. I was told that SEPTA decided it was too expensive to pull up the tracks and they weren't prepared to do the necessary repairs. I'd like to know if that's true or not and whose decision it was why nobody's done anything about it since. The place is really a mess to drive. It's very dangerous for, not only the residents, but for incoming traffic from the suburbs because that road carries, you know, from the Old York Road outside of the City all the way into the City. So we'll expect to you ready the next time this hearing is scheduled. Now, with respect to the main question, you know, it's about 30 years that we've been discussing in City Council the question of employment discrimination in the City. It's outrageous. I don't know what word -- you used the word "monitored." I haven't the faintest notion of what you mean. But I'll tell you what I sense from 2309 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET your attitude. Monitored means this is an excuse so we don't have to do anything. As long as we can create some paper trail indicating somebody else has some responsibility, then we monitor. I don't know "monitor" means. To me, if SEPTA was at all serious about getting these goals actually fulfilled, they would have not a monitoring to watch, they would have a team of people there working with every contractor saying, "Now, how are you going to ensure this minority attendance? How are you going the ensure that there's a capable work force? Don't you need special training for this kind of worker?" Do you have an analysis -- I'm asking now this question directly of you. Do you have an analysis of how much money you spend for the kind of labor that's involved in prevailing wage structures? You're bound by prevailing wage laws, aren't you?
And the prevailing wage laws at the federal level, at the State level and at City level. How much money last year went for construction that involved prevailing wage rates? 2310 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
We'll have to get that for you. I don't know off the top of my head.
And we're going want to know, in addition to that, what the percentage of the minority employment was in the work force that was involved in the prevailing wage rate, because it seems to me that when governments guarantee prevailing wage rates to any group, they absolutely have a responsibility to make sure that those groups are following democratic policies in employment. And in Philadelphia, for years we've been trying to get the kind of diversity that will produce a work force in all the construction projects that resembles the population of the City of Philadelphia. And the public sector has the greatest responsibility. You're not meeting your duty, I say respectfully, if all you're doing is hiring a company that somehow has been certified as a DBE company and you just kind of watch them. I think you've got to have a team ready to step in at any point and say, "How do you guarantee that you're going to have this work force. You know we're not limited to paying you only 18 percent. What are you doing to increase the minority employment in your 2311 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET firm?" They don't have to be minority entrepreneurs; they're fine. But the companies that are not minority entrepreneur-owned ought also -- I don't believe that these DBE rules apply only to minority firms. I believe that they apply also to firms that are not minority owned. I think the work force there has to be representative and diverse. Is that your understanding, or do you believe that only minority-owned firms have to hire minority and disadvantaged workers?
No. The definition DBE has small and disadvantaged and minority firms, so it's other firms as well.
Other firms as well. And I would like to know what you mean by monitoring. What is the staff? I'd like to know how many members you have in the staff that are fully assigned whose sole jobs is to guarantee the diversity of the work forces.
Of the individual contractors and subcontractors. Because we know the 2312 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET games that are played in the field. We know that there are many forces at work that work against diversity of the work force. And they will use whatever slack you give them to avoid meeting their responsibility, though on the service if you're only monitoring and watching paperwork, sure, it's easy to formulate paperwork that shows compliance with goals when in fact there isn't goals. We know, for example, in some places the apprentice program -- first, it's very difficult to get into. Second, when you get into it all kind of discouragements are thrown in your direction. And third, if you survive, then you get the worst work assignments so that when the ultimate outcome comes, there's hardly anybody available for work. What do you mean when you said during the time that you have different percentage based on the availability of work? You said some contractors have only 5 percent workers DBE workers so you have to make up in another way to get that average of 18 percent. What do you do about the company that only has 5 percent? How do you get them up to the 18 percent? We'd like to know those kind of answers. 2313 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET And if you can't answer them now, I'd be willing at the next hearing to expect you to have answers to those so we can engage in a meaningful discussion. Because it seems to me that SEPTA itself is playing games. It is going through the motions of making people believe it's interested but that it isn't interested really. Because if you were interested, you'd roll up your sleeves and would get to work and we would have diversity of work force. And you would take the steps necessary to see to it. You're a powerful agency. You have lots of money to spend. And you are paying these prevailing wage rates and you have a legal responsibility. So would you like me to begin raising the questions now, or do you feel you're going need more time to get that information? I will accept either answer.
I'd like to clarify something. The percentages that we mentioned are not work hours. They are not minority individuals. They are firms. We have two separate goals: We have an EEO goal that deals with minority work hours; we have another goal which is a DBE goal. The 5 percent and the other percentages that I 2314 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET mentioned were reference to DBE firms, because the scope of work for one area might only have a 4 percent goal because that's all the DBEs that might 5 function in that particular scope.
Well, do you go and -- suppose you're told by a company, "We can't find any minority employees"? Do you immediately sit down with them and say, "Let's work out a program of training. Let's get our outreach program working before anything else is done. Before we can give you a contract, we've got to make sure that you've arranged a change so that your DBE rate is a much higher rate than the 5 percent"?
For DBEs, the firm itself, if they come back -- if a prime comes to us and the tell us they can meet the 5 percent DBE, we have a unit that sits down with them and gives them potential companies for them to consider.
A list of firms for them to consider. Remember now, there's DBE firms and those are the items that I referenced before. The firms, not the people. 2315 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Let's assume you're doing some work and every firm reports percent or 4 less. What does SEPTA do to increase the numbers? 5 What does SEPTA do to help the company in the field reach that goal? Or do you just wash your hands of it and say, "That's not our problem. We'll try to make up the percentage somewhere else"? That's feeling I get that SEPTA does not accept any responsibility whatever. You work with what you find existing and try to put together a patch work that enables you to feel that if you're questioned by a legislative body at any of the three legislative levels, you'll have a satisfactory action. And I'll have to tell you the answer I'm hearing today is totally unsatisfactory. It's a very poor record, it seems to me, for a public agency to have the kind of record where all they're doing is monitoring other firms instead of developing programs where necessary to help those firms achieve the goals that SEPTA is suppose to by law achieve. Your comment, please.
Again, I'm trying to make sure that there is an understanding. The percentages that we mentioned are for DBE firms. 2316 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET The references that you're making are for the individuals that work for the firms. For those firms, they are responsible for their hiring. There are no goals that we have for that individual firm that says --
We can't place goals on individual companies for thier hiring goals.
You're not allowed to place goals and say that there has to be a fair percentage of diversity on every construction job that exists? Of course you're allowed to do that. Except SEPTA refuses to accept that responsibility.
Only under the Executive Order. The question that you were asking before, if a firm comes in and they have a hundred employees. I can't tell that firm that 50 of his employees must be minority and 50 people must be majority. What I can tell him is if he's on our project that there is 6.9 percent female goal of work that he has to do and 17.3 percent of the work hours have to be for 2317 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET minorities. But I can't dictate to him what the complexion business would be.
Well, how do you meet those goals that you said if there's only a 5 percent.
The 5 percent was merely an example of a DBE percentage. It was not supposed --
Suppose the company has 5 percent. How do you get from that company the percentage you said you can say to them that you need? How do you get 18 percent women and 18 percent other minorities from a company? How do you get those work hours from them if their work force only consist of 5 percent?
The 5 percent is not a real. The 5 percent was merely a DBE, Disadvantage Business Enterprise, the business itself. It had nothing to do with the minority hour requirements for the projects. Those percentages are called EEO percentages. Those percentages are reflected as 6.9 percent for the Market Elevated and --
The complaints we get in City Council and groups of individuals come in here and say they go to the work sites and they just 2318 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET see white faces everywhere and that seeing a woman's face or a minority face is a rare thing at a SEPTA construction site. Are you telling us that the people are not telling us the truth.
It might be the truth for that day. The population of workers changes daily. There are some workers that are back room operations workers that might be minorities. There are others that are in the hole, and maybe people are looking differently. But we have people that monitor, they actually go out almost every day now. They are taking a head count of minorities on that project and on that site.
We'll send you the report of the number of minorities, the work hours, the trades, how many are in what zip code. We'll send all that over.
Councilman, if I may have your attention for just a minute please. I think that Community College has been waiting here all afternoon. There are a number of Councilmembers 2319 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET that still have question of SEPTA. And I think that there have been a number of questions that have been asked of you today. If you could prepare something in writing for us with your response.
I'm not finished, Councilman. And we'd like copies of your 11 responses please so that every member could have a 12 copy of the responses. And we would like to have 13 you come back at another date when you're much more 14 prepared to respond to the many questions that the 15 Councilmembers have. Would you be agree able to 16 that? 17
I'm agreeable to the coming back. I don't care about written reports because written reports, as has been made clear at this meeting, cover up. They don't reveal information, they cover up.
Councilman, before 2320 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET you came in I think there were many Councilpeople that had questions. I don't know that they were answered to their satisfaction. So I am asking that the responses be put in writing and we will have a call back date for SEPTA to return and you can ask as many questions at that time as you choose that were not answered satisfactorily in the letter.
That will be agreeable. But I would want to add one other thing. I will be raising the issue of why haven't you taken the steps to provide that the school children of Philadelphia ride free transportation to and from school so that we don't have money problems causing youngsters to be away from school? That was going to be a major question I was raising. We've raised it over the years. We've never gotten decent responses. But often families have to choose which child goes to school this week because there isn't enough fare money. And I would like that also to be included among the questions to be asked of SEPTA with responses from them.
Thank you. 2321 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET At this time the Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you. And would you also see what you can do about deferring that Thursday meeting, because I understand your guy out there has put out flyers, and let me know.
The Chair at this time recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. I would ask as you prepare your reports, the pie charts are very instructive and given us a big picture of where you are with a number of your initiatives and specifically as relates to Councilman Nutter's questions around minority contract and percentage Philadelphia and percentage female. Pie charts help break down the narrative piece, so if you could include that with your backup information you will be providing, that will be helpful. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you very much. And we will notify 2322 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET you of the date and time you're to return. Thank you so much. At long last Community College. Thank you for your patience. We appreciate your staying. Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record proceed with your testimony.
Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of City Council. Thank you for providing us with an opportunity to address this distinguished body. My name is Rhonda Cohen and I have the honor of serving as Chair of the Board of Trustees of Community College of Philadelphia. My colleagues on the board are dedicated, civic, and business leaders who represent a broad cross-section of Philadelphia. Each of us gives our time because we recognize the importance the of Community College of Philadelphia which provides access for many residents who might not otherwise earn a degree or even consider continuing their education. With your permission, I would like to introduce or at least mention the board members who are or were present day. Christine James Brown, Dan Mackelhatten (ph) and Dorothy Sumners Rush. On behalf of the Board of Trustees, I 2323 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET wish to express our appreciation to Mayor Street for recognizing the work of our faculty, administrators, staff, and students. The City support will help accommodate the growing number of workers who will need new skills sets to remain employable as well as the students who seek to transfer into the region's prestigious four-year universities. This past year, the college also expanded its work force development and corporate education programs with the opening of its Center for Business and Industry. Community College of Philadelphia was founded in 1965 and opened with an enrollment of 700 full-time and part-time students. This past year we were the higher educational institution of choice for a growing number of students. In an enrollment survey conducted last fall by the Philadelphia Business Journal, Community College of Philadelphia ranked first among educational institutions in this region. Over 46,000 residents enrolled during the 2001 2002 year, and the City's financial support was crucial in serving them. The college provides Philadelphians with a blueprint for their careers. One way to judge an institution's success is to 2324 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET evaluate the achievements of its alumni. Charlie Pizzi, a man who has made his mark on the corporate landscape currently is President and CEO Tasty Baking Company is an alumnus. So are State Senator Dwight Evans and US Representative Chaka Fattah. These are merely a few of our former students who have a powerful effect on the City's economy and quality of life. We have made quality education and student-centered service top priorities so busy students have greater flexibility in scheduling and registering for classes. At this time I would like to introduce Stephen Curtis, President of Community College of Philadelphia who will present the formal testimony to Council.
Thank you very much. Mr. Curtis, if you would summarize your testimony, I would appreciate it. And we will give your copy to the stenographer and it will be transcribed in full.
I'm Stephen Curtis, 2325 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET President of the College, and I thank you, President Verna and Members of the City Council for the opportunity to speak with you today and to answer any questions that you might have. In the spirit of making it brief, I'll say that included in the written testimony that we provided I think is, first of all, an indication of how we in particularly in light of the economy are trying to meet the needs and priorities of the City and the residents of the City. You've heard Board Chair reference the number of students that come to us for various reasons, whether it's to pursue degree programs, for work force training, for adult education, literacy programs, we think that all of these are part of the broad mission that are so important to us. I've mentioned in the written testimony three or four specific examples of new initiatives that we've undertaken in support of that mission. One was the opening of our new Business and Industry Center. And again, that's described so I won't go through that right now. But it will enable us to expand our contribution to economic and work force development in the City and the region, both 2326 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET actually on site at the new center, but also it becomes a visible symbol of what we do elsewhere on site with various companies around the area. We mentioned in the written testimony Opportunity Now, a program which offers one tuition-free semester to any Philadelphia resident who has been laid out from full-time employment. We started that last year. We're continuing it this year. And to date, we've had more than 400 residents take advantage of that program. We mention in the testimony our dual administration programs. For those students who want to move into the baccalaureate level, we now have an additional to our many articulation agreements six specific dual admissions programs. And the universities and colleges are name in your copies. Which means that by virtue of being admitted to us and then completing the degree, they're guaranteed admission at the junior level to these institutions often with scholarships. Since 1997, over 3,000 students have participated in those programs, those administration programs -- many more have transferred -- but that means that they can achieve a baccalaureate degree at basically half the 2327 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET cost. The written comments also speak to our expanding programs with the public schools. We talk there about the dual enrollment programs where high school students can take college courses for credit. A variety of other programs that we do in the public schools. I'm not sure it mentions our newest effort. We're working with the School District now and we'll attempt to pilot this coming fall what we call a Four Plus One Program, and that is in four years of high school and one full year of college, by starting the college courses early while still in high school, in those five years we would seek to have a student graduate with a high school and a two-year associate degree. That's in the works now. We'll pilot that this fall, and then hopefully expand it to a number of other high schools in the coming years. We cite some specific examples of students who've gone through programs like the Biomedical Technician Program that leads to, not just a job, but a real career path that makes a difference. We cite another example which is not a 2328 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET credit program, it's a training program that we do with CSX. And the specific students cited, after the five-week program taking the CSX exam and like 99 percent of the other students that complete that program then are put into the job begins at an estimated salary of $41,000. So we try to give you a number concrete examples of where we think we're making a difference for the City and residents of the City. 4 million.
We appreciate very much the Mayor's confidence in us and we accept that as a sign that we are indeed moving to meet the needs and priorities of the City. These are difficult times. At the state level we expect no increase of any kind. We continue not to have chapter monies coming from the State, so these are tight times for us. And again, in the document we've tried to cite both how we're addressing that through cost efficiencies, but also some of 2329 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET challenges we face which will not be unknown to you, the normal contractual salary obligations, the rising cost of health insurance, and the like. So having said that, knowing that this is a difficult scene in front of us, probably for the next several years, at lease, we believe that the college is part of the solution to the issues that the community faces. We think we make a tremendous difference in the individual lives of the individual citizens, both looking at them as employees in the work force, as taxpayers, and as citizens who really do bring citizenship to all of this as well. So for all of those reasons and everything detailed, we would appreciate your support and hope that you will support this budget request. We continue to be committed to working with you as a Council toward making our residents productive, not only in terms of the work force, but as I said in terms of citizenry and make their education at our institution a real investment on the part of the City. Thank you. I will be happy to answer any questions. 2330 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Thank you, Mr. Curtis. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. It's seldom I get the chance to jump start this. Congratulations on the opening of your new center, because I think it's a progressive step that suggests you're changing with the times and with the needs of the City. The tuition-free semester that you talk about, how is that publicized, about its availability.
When we first did it a year ago, we actually had a public event that was co-hosted by the Chamber of Commerce. We had the Director of Commerce from the City there. We had a full page in one of the major newspapers that was part announcement and part application. So it went out to thousands of residents across -- I guess tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, whatever the daily circulation is. Since then, we try to find a number of avenues. As an example, I spoke before the Chamber of Commerce again within the last couple 2331 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET of months and my focus was work force related initiatives. That was one that I brought to the fore. With any company that we worked with for training, we are able to facilitate training dollars from the State for the company. When we meet individuals that we know are associated with the company, even if we're not working with them directly, we try to put that out. So we have a variety of ways that we try to put that out there.
When you speak of the Chamber, does that include the African American Chamber as well as the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce so that they too are aware?
We notify all of them, yes. That particular session that I just described was for the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce where I spoke to them. But we make that information available to everyone, yes, ma'am.
Very well. I know of your aggressive efforts with regard to diversity of faculty. Can you give us an update on where you are with that currently, some of the initiatives that you've --
Oh, some of the 2332 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET initiatives, I'm not sure I can quote all the percentages in terms of the update right now. We have done a variety of things over time. Some of it has to do with the way we develop the pool of candidates because once you have the pool together, you have a set group from which if you hire you basically are going to select. So we've put a lot of our efforts into the development of the pool. We have a stated set of procedures which we ask every department, whether it's academic or non-academic, to adhere to. We examine the pools before we allow the interviewing process to go forward. We examine the plan for disseminating the information about the job search, not just advertisements in newspapers but reaching out in some cases to graduate programs where we know we might have some capability of identifying persons of color who could apply. We continue to have our minority fellowship program. And someone will correct, we had four minority fellows last year, of that number -- how many were hired? Two of the four.
A year-long program. And in most cases where there's not a hire, it's because they have other choices. They go on to post-doctoral programs or take other positions. But out of fellows last year became part of permanent full-time faculty.
Could you please forward to Madam President a brochure or literature that talks about the Minority Fellows Program.
If you had to identify one, two, or three top areas where CCP will be impacted by the Governor's new budget, what would they be?
One will be student tuition. Another will be -- it may not be as specific as what you just asked me, but our capacity to handle what we view ill be the additional enrollment. So that means being able to create enough classes, but also the services associated with those. It's not just having enough instructors in the classroom, it's making sure you have enough 2334 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET people working in financial aid, or providing --
That's right. And we feel that not only is the economy going to drive some more students toward us, which is typical of the community college sector, but as you listen to some of the potential tuition rises in four-year institutions, probably a certain number of those students also may turn for the first two years to us. So it's in the general ability to handle students as opposed to an individual area like faculty or something else. It's just that general ability. The other area for us is capital. This is the second year in a row we receive no capital from the State. In the current budget as it's been approved halfway, the so-called bear-bones budget of the State, again, there's no capital. That means anything we do, we have to absorb a hundred percent ourselves. It limits what we can do in terms of a number of just capital purchases we need to make, equipment-wise, and so on. So that's probably, I would say, another major area where you'll see the 2335 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET impact.
What is on line maybe the next two or three parties as it relates to the Philadelphia School system. You've mentioned the Four Plus One initiative -- having been out of higher education for a long while, is that novel? Is that a new phenomenon? Is that happening nationwide?
It's starting to. It doesn't exist in many places yet. But it's an attempt to integrate the curriculum at the high school and the college levels and, as I say, basically to accelerate some of the programs. The premises is the first two years of high school are all high school courses, the next two years are a combination of high school and college, and then the fifth year is fully college. That's the four plus the one. But it means the curriculum really has to be integrated. You have to make sure that the preparation has been done properly even those first two years, as an example, in math or science or whatever it might be. So the areas that we're looking at initially are technology-based programs.
That sounds 2336 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET exciting. My final questioning is around, as I'm you are aware, the troubling concerns raised regarding part-time staff and what that means in terms of benefits and the like. Discuss where the university is with reckoning with that concern.
I'm not sure exactly all that's implied in your question. But in our last contract negotiations which finished about a year ago, we wound up providing a larger pay increase for part-time faculty than we did for full-time, and I think that was with the accession of every group involved, the agreement of every group involved.
Excuse me. Point of order. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
I am really sorry, but I think Councilman Mariano and Councilwoman Blondel Reynolds are going to some questions that I have about part-time employees which we're very concerned about. I have to leave now. But I think those questions have to be asked and, hopefully, the corresponding answers can come forward from your side. Thank you.
And I'm sure if I 2337 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET miss any, my colleague Councilman David Cohen will surely take up the back. Continue, please.
Your question is dealing mainly with part-time faculty, right?
When we go through a negotiation period, as we did a year ago, that's a time when we also examine -- we do this more often than that, but certainly at that time -- how our pay and benefits match in terms of other institutions because that's a benchmark, I think. And we are consistently in the top tier, I'm talking about the top four or five in the area in terms of part-time pay. I think our benefits are at least that good, if not better. So that is our goal, to be in that top tier when it comes to compensation and benefits for part-timers.
Top four or five community colleges or -- 2338 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
No, no. Institutions. Four-year too. We look at a variety, we don't just look at community colleges.
Do you believe that part-time faculty impact the quality of education or not or why not.
Well, again depends how you look at it. We consciously hire part-timers in many cases because they bring an expertise that we don't necessarily have resident in the full-time faculty. You get into specialized areas in some career fields. As an example, you may not have enough courses to offer a full load to someone who teaches in a very narrow aspect of a particular field, in paralegal or the health fields or whatever, but you want that expertise from the field. So that's a very positive impact, and I think it's quite purposeful. In terms of the overall quality, we assume and expect that the level of performance in the classroom is going to be the same for adjuncts as well as full-timers. And we would expect the departments would assure that that is so.
For my own understanding, define the difference between 2339 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET part-time and adjunct.
And am I hearing that the opportunity has been missed because the contract happened how many months ago? Help me out.
And that's a one-year, two-year, three-year contract?
Very well. Thank you for your testimony. I'm certain my colleagues have additional questions. Thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Mariano.
Thank you, Madam President. Councilwoman Brown asked at the beginning of this question, but I'm going to go a little bit further. Is it true that the salary rate for courses taught by part-timers is less than 50 percent of that of the full-timers?
I don't think so. I think on the average adjuncts get about 70 percent of the 2340 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET entry level rate for full-timers.
Can you send us some examples, like not with names or anything, but someone that's like a full-time English teacher gets so much and then what a part-time English teacher is getting.
Well, remember now, it depends also on seniority and so on. The very entry level for full-time is about $34,000. Though many whom we hire start out actually a little bit above that.
Can you break that down for us? I guess if a full-timer is there longer, they actually get more money.
So the part-timer state at a certain rate and works up?
Could you break that down without -- I'm not interested in names. I just want to know.
No, you don't have 2341 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET to do that now, just get to her writing when you get a chance, okay.
Some of the people had to leave. You answered Councilwoman Brown, if I understood it, basically you're saying it's the union's fault because they did a contract before and it's tied in and you couldn't raise the part-time salaries even if you wanted to.
I'm not sure if "fault" is the word I would have used in any of this conversation. I'm saying that everything we pay is contractual.
So you're not paying a penny less or a penny more than the contract?
And that contract is in what year of a five-year contract?
We're in the second year 2342 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET now of a five-year contract.
So you're not going to be raising them salaries until the contract is up, basically?
Now, let's go back two years of the contract. Was that a negotiation point of the contract? Was there part-time salaries as opposed to full-time salaries?
Oh, no. No. Somebody want to give me -- You're asking numbers now, but there's a separate union that represents full-time and a separate unit that represents part-time. COUNCIL MARIANO: I didn't know that. I should have known that. Okay. But you negotiate with both unions at the same time?
That must be 2343 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET horrible.
We do all of it at once. Some level of coordination, too, obviously, discussion among the various units and so on. But we literally negotiate separate contracts with each one.
Is it a combined negotiation? I mean, you sit at the table with both leaders?
My other question is dose Community College have to justify the use of its part-timers as compared to full-timers for accreditation? Does that have anything to do with it?
Typically not. Accreditation has changed. I'll give you one exception in just a moment. But for our general accreditation, it used to be that they counted things, the number of books in your library, the number of part-timers, the number of full-timers. That is not the emphasis anymore. The emphasis is on outcomes. Regardless of whether you're taught by 2344 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET a full-timer or a part-timer, regardless of whether you're in a career program or a liberal arts program, regardless of any of those things, what kind of educational product do you walk away with. What value has been added and how can you demonstrate that. So from an accreditation point of view, that is not typical concern. Let me give you the exception, though. There are some external accreditation bodies for individual programs, and I'll use nursing as an example, that have very specific ratios, including their expectation in terms full-time and part-time. And obviously, we meet all of those. But the general answer to you would be no. 16
I attended community college twice. I attended first when I didn't go to any college and I attended it later when I needed credits to make up, and frankly, Community College credits were being accepted from the college that I wanted to graduated from and they were cheaper and it was great and it's a great school. But at that time, we're talking in my 20s as compared to my late 30s, early 40s, I never realized the difference between the teachers. I 2345 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET really have to say that. You go, you sit back and think later, well, he was probably a part-time teacher. Some I knew because I knew what they did in thier other lives. One was the baseball coach that I knew from somewhere else so he was obviously a part-time teacher. But this troubles us. It troubles us because of the lobbying of the union, of course, the part-time union. And I can only speak for myself, for us to approve a budget, and I know you're under all kind of constraints because what's not coming from the State, what you're not getting from anyone else. We're three months out of an election.
Eighty-six days. Thank you, Councilwoman. (Laughter.)
It's hard for us to justify this when people come around. And we get a lot of calls, not just from the union. We get people constantly coming in our office looking to better themselves. And my office, we recommend go to Community College, you can't beat it. You still have the television courses? 2346 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Best deal in town. Best deal in town, especially for busy working people. So you definitely have a product that needs to be promoted, as you all do. I see you have some very credible people here on the Board, but we can't have this discrepancy from different groups as to salary, if you catch what I'm trying to say. And I know, you come in, they get you run an organization, a school, and you're doing a good job, but this is the kind of stuff that really gets Council in a rut. We can go on for hours on this. And Councilman Cohen hasn't spoke yet. I will probably be home having dinner by the time he's done speaking, I assure you because he's been at this for a long time. When you come in front of our full budget, something's going to have to be done there, because I can venture to say you're probably not going to have support to get all the money that we give if we can't at least have some kind of agreement or something that we'll talk about that, you know, within the realm of your contract with these two unions. I don't like to delve into things I don't 2347 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET know a whole lot about. I know a tad about this, not a whole lot. So teach us and help us, but help us help them. And that makes my job easier.
And we'll be glad to engage you in lots of conversation about this if this doesn't allow us time to kind of give you all the answers. Can I just also make one other observation? What we expect, just so we're clear of full-timers and part-timers is different. I don't think it's different in the teaching side. I think the quality of what we would expect in the classroom is exactly the same. But full-timers have other obligations that part-timers do not, whether it's curriculum development, whether it's participating in the life of the campus through committees, keeping office hours. None of those things are required of part-timers. So I just want sure that we're clear on that. The responsibilities are different. The expectations are different. And that has a piece to do with the pay as well.
And that's a good point. That's something I wouldn't know because I've never, you know -- thank you. Thank you very much. 2348 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
I'm looking on of your expenditure budget and the $60 million for salaries. How much of that is set aside -- goes to part-time workers? How many part-time workers do you have?
In terms of overall, we have about 800 full-time employees. And I'm not talking about faculty now, I'm talking about employees in general, and about 800 part-time. That's in terms of our entire employee base.
Correct. That's not talking faculty now, that's talking across the board, whether it's tutors, all kinds of things.
Now when we talk about part-time employees, they are instructors or 2349 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET are they across the board, too.
How many full-time instructors and how many part-time instructors?
Yes, but they have to, I believe, have achieved a certain amount of seniority first, am I correct?
Jack Nuraskin (ph), Director of Human Resources. For certain benefits, there is a seniority requirement. In other words, you have to have taught for a certain number of semesters in order to be eligible. And that will vary with the kind of benefit. But once you become eligible, normally after about six semesters, I think, the average.
Yes. This is part-time 2350 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET teaching. Then we contribute to a retirement fund, percent which is matched by the individual. There 4 is money that we contribute toward health insurance. 5 There is money that we even tribute when you are employed elsewhere and have health insurance at that other employer, we contribute some money toward the cost of that health insurance. There is life insurance that is available. So there is a full panoply of benefits that are available to part-timers.
A comparison of the number full-time employees you have, their salary range and benefits compared to the part-time workers and their salary ranges and their benefits?
It should go to the President. The $400,000 you're getting from the City of Philadelphia, what does that buy?
In the broadest terms, it means at least a dollar and a half that we won't 2351 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET have to raise tuition.
What is the normal -- and I should know, but what is the average yearly or is there a yearly contribution from the City over and above -- is there a annual increment from the City; and if so, what is the average annual increment?
There is no annual increment. Each year we ask for a particular amount and then depending on the year, the City gives us X dollars more or Y dollars more. There is no 13 average.
Where does the balance of your money come from, tuition and fees? You ge million here. You have State dollars? 17
We have State dollars. It's supposed to be roughly a third, a third, a third, but we never get a third from the City as the local sponsor. And that's true for most community colleges. A third from the State, and a third from students. By Statute, we don't exceed the third on tuition. There are fees that would add to that third, and then we are creative and entrepreneurial to help fill in some of the other gaps. 2352 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
So the City does not provide the third that it should provide?
If the City provided you with the third appropriation, would you be able to hire more full-time employees? Is it a financial issue or is it an issue based on how you run how operate the college?
No. A part of it is financial. That's not the only financial need that we would have, though, just so I've said that. If you're looking at faculty, by contract 60 percent of all courses at the college have to be taught by full-timers. So that 60/40 is the minimum that we have to meet. And there are many community colleges that don't do that.
Sure. The faculty contract requires that at least 60 percent of all courses -- see it's not the numbers here, of raw numbers of 2353 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET faculty. You could a thousand part-timers, but if they're teaching one course each, that's very different than if they were doing two courses or three courses each. So it's the percentage of courses that are taught by full-timers over all that are mandated by the contract. So my answer to you would be if we had a fair amount of additional funds, that would certainly be one area that we would look at. But there are others. And I'm going to put student tuition in this again. Every year we have to raise the student tuition a certain amount. And even last year when across the State the tuition increases at many of the universities were double digits, we didn't hit that double digit percentage increase. So we always try to make that at the top of our list in terms of what we're able to do budget-wise. But I want to say, again, there are other needs across the college too. So my general answer would be, yes, but I just want to be sure you understand there's a larger context as well.
What are of the courses that the part-time teachers teach? Are they basic to the core curriculum? Are the courses they teach essential to the core curriculum for the 2354 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET students?
So if you have a full-time instructor, the students major in various areas?
So if they're majoring in math or science or something, math or biology, is there a limit on the number of part-time instructors they have exposure to or can have exposure to or could the entire course be taught by part-time?
Well, in theory that could happen. But in practice, that's very unlikely. Now, all this is driven by the department. This is an administrative -- it's not an administrative decision. Departments do all the assigning of faculty in terms of when they meet, for example, whether you'd have all the full-timers in the day as opposed to the evening, all that kind of thing.
How they distribute whether it's part-time or full-time.
No, that's a departmental decision. Let me rephrase it. Full-time faculty may choose when they want their schedules in general. So that's what it's determined by.
Well, if you had more money and you were going to appropriate it to instruction and you said that you would look at increasing the number of full-time --
We would certainly take into account, if this is the nature of your question, where we are stronger or weaker among departments, where that ratio is. That's what you're asking me?
But it's left up to the instructional side of the institution in relationship with you making that decision?
No. I was talking about which courses are taught and when. That's the decision that gets made in the department. How many of the full-time lines that we have where they're assigned, that would be an administrative.
That was my 2356 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET question before.
Not what courses that are taught, but how do you determine in a core curriculum of a course what courses would be covered by full-time and/or part-time?
That's the part again that is not a decision that is an administrative one. What we would be able to determine is -- let's say -- I told you we have 400 full-time faculty. As faculty retire or leave the institution, there's not an automatic replacement in a given department. Most of the time, that's the way it would happen. But if a department, for example, has declining enrollment, that wouldn't automatically be a given, so you do wind up shifting positions around. You do it on a number of bases. One is certainly student enrollment. Another could be the relationship of full-time to part-time. That is the numbers that you're inquiring about. Another can e that exception that I have gave to earlier question, that is, is there an external accreditation reason that says we have to do such and so. So there are a 2357 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET variety of reasons. We also respond to individual departments request of us. Despite the fact that our funds are not unlimited and we couldn't go out tomorrow probably and begin to hire tens and tens of new full-timers. In general, we meet many of their requests, the departments come forward with. I can even think of a time or two where we've gone to a department to urge them to add new faculty, new full-time lines. And in some cases that was done, in other cases it did not necessarily result in a new hire. And again, that's not so much an administrative decision.
So the departments pretty much decide whether it should be full-time or part-time?
I want to be sure I'm answering your question accurately. They determine which teaches which courses. That's what I keep hearing in part of your question. The number of full-time lines at the moment is finite overall. So if they say, we have 400 lines and now a request comes to make it 402, we may not be able to accommodate that. 2358 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Thank you. Could you explain in perhaps a little more detail the difference in the work responsibilities of a full-time faculty member as against a part-time faculty member?
Well, as I tried to say earlier, the full time faculty member will have certainly a full load of courses. There are limits on the number that a part-time faculty member can teach. What goes on in the classroom, I think, is no different. But the full-time faculty are the heart of the institution in terms of how it runs. Out of full-time faculty comes curriculum. When we change courses, when we develop a new program, when you do all those things that you have to do to keep up to date, et cetera, full-time faculty have that is responsibility. 2359 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
I'm having trouble understanding. How does full-time faculty meet that responsibility?