Will the Clerk please call the next witnesses on the next panel.
Good afternoon, Mr. Myers. Please state your name for the record and begin your testimony.
My name is Lew Myers. I am Director of Policy, Research and Impact for the American Bus Association based out of Washington, D.C. So thank you to the Council for the time. Just going to give a few remarks on support for this intercity bus. Intercity bus and intermodal facilities are essential hubs. These facilities serve as critical transfer points, enabling passengers to seamlessly connect between transportation modes to reach their final destinations. They are vital to a well- functioning and integrated regional and national transportation network. Safe and closed facilities enhance passenger experience and accessibility. A secure and closed terminal ensures passenger safety, comfort and convenience, especially during transfers between carriers. These facilities are significantly more accommodating for passengers with disabilities, mobility challenges or those experiencing service disruptions, insurance compliant, ensuring compliance with ADA standards and promoting equitable access. Intermodal facilities drive economic development. Facilities like Union Station in Washington, D.C. highlight the economic potential, generating over $35 million annually through intercity bus, charter and tour bus operations, parking and terminal access fees. Similar investment in Philadelphia can serve as an economic engine, while enhancing mobility. Uncertainty and relocation erode passenger confidence. The frequent relocation of intercity bus operations in recent years has undermined passenger trust, complicated wayfinding and led to service reductions. As a result, some carriers have ceased servicing Philadelphia, disrupting key connections to cities like Atlantic City, Washington, D.C., New York and Pittsburgh. These changes have disconnected intercity bus services from broader transportation systems, increasing travel costs and reducing convenience for passengers. Charter bus parking is critical for tourism and operations. Since 2016, Philadelphia's available motor coach parking has declined, with only one location currently serving the downtown area. A new joint use facility would address the shortfall, supporting safe charter operations and promoting tourism and accommodating group travel and tour buses. Federal attention on travel and tourism infrastructure: The U.S. Department of Transportation is actively updating its national travel and tourism infrastructure strategic plan. Philadelphia's approach to intermodal transportation and motor coach access will serve as a case study, either showcasing success or highlighting gaps in implementation and coordination. Motor coaches serve underserved communities. Intercity buses and motor coach remain one of the safest, most affordable transportation options for low-income and underserved communities. They play a vital role in ensuring equitable transportation access across all socioeconomic lines. Dual-use facilities support sustainability and small businesses. A combined intermodal and motor coach parking facility would not only promote sustainable transportation by encouraging mode shifts from personal vehicles, but will also support small, family- owned transportation businesses that form the backbone of intercity and charter bus operations. Lastly, I invite the Council, the Mayor's office or whomever would like to come down to D.C. We could do a tour of Union Station to give an example of what an intercity intermodal facility that is profitable looks like. With that being said, I just want to thank the Council again for their time.
Thank you so much for testifying today, Mr. Myers. I appreciate you being here and giving us your perspective from the industry. One thing I find I guess fascinating, your testimony said Philadelphia, we're either going to be a case study for success or failure essentially. And I hope that we are that case study for success on how we can move our city forward with this and be an example for other cities for newer 21st century intercity bus terminals. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Phillips.
I just want to quickly also note that I'm really thankful that Councilmember Young put this together. One of the things that gets me with the City of Philadelphia, particularly Planning and Development, is that until Councilmembers ask for hearings of this nature about the future of our city we don't hear from that department. It's like we should constantly get presentations about what they're thinking, what they're doing, but we don't. And it's frustrating because we can't be a 21st century city if we're not constantly thinking about planning and we're not working together. So it just kind of undermines the fact that cities like D.C. is generating $35 million annually through the intercity bus, charter and tour bus operations. I just want to get a better sense -- you said you invited us for a tour, but I think they should go to the tour first if they haven't already. But I want to just from you how is that possible? What are they doing to get that $35 million revenue in particular, like detail-wise?
Just on a low level, bus slips. Buses pay to come in and out of Union Station. And as the gentleman said, often times they'll pay per passenger, if not per bus. Then there's that economic impact with restaurants, shops. And so, whenever the Council has time we are right down the street and would love to host the planning committee or whomever to do a private tour and kind of answer some of those questions as you all look to build out your infrastructure.
Yeah, absolutely. I was just curious about it and if you can share any details with us, that'd be awesome. Thank you for coming down to Philadelphia.
Thank you. I do have one more question for you. From the industry's perspective, why traditionally has the intercity bus travel with these private companies, why haven't they received the federal support that some of the other transportation modes have been receiving?
I might not be qualified to answer that directly, but I think that there has to be a greater focus on motor coach. I think when people think major transportation they think air travel, train and there's always been a disproportionate funding allocation to buses and motor coach. And so, I think these type of hearings only amplify and bring to light the importance of having motor coach. If you think about it, planes can't land everywhere. Trains can't transport everywhere, but buses do have a regional impact nationwide. And so, I think these are opportunities. And obviously, coming from D.C. on Capitol Hill we have the T&I Committee, which is Transportation and Infrastructure. And so, I think there might even be an opportunity to kind of get in front of that group to talk further about the need for motor coach. Just one last point. We do a lot of analysis and studies. And being over research, I'm privy to a lot of data. We have a mega decade coming up, which is going to be the World Cup. And so, we need to start putting the infrastructure in place now to accommodate for what FIFA is estimating 8 million international travelers. They're going to start designating cities for which particular soccer clubs are going to be playing. And I imagine Philadelphia would be one of those major cities. And so, that's just one example of the need to further invest in this critical discussion.
Thank you. I mean, that was kind of the premise of why I wanted to do this hearing because we are a site for FIFA and we do know that our location is critical to allow folks to travel from Philadelphia to New York to Boston to D.C., right, to get to those matches, to follow their teams. And so, having intercity bus routes is critical for those types of travelers. Just for the easy convenience of it all, because everyone can't afford Amtrak, right, to hop on Amtrak. But they could afford a $30 ticket to get to a match in Boston. So I just want to thank you again for being here and sharing your testimony from the industry.
Thank you so much. Ms. McDonald, will you please call the next panel to testify.
Peter Picknelly, Noelia Calcano. And available for questions is Matthew Maglio and Francesca Friedman. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Thank you so much for being here today. Please state your name for the record and begin with your testimony.
Yes. Actually, it's Francesca Waldmann and I will be the one providing testimony.
No 4 problem. So my name is Francesca Waldmann. I am here on behalf of FlixBus and Greyhound. Good afternoon, I guess Chairman Driscoll and Vice-Chairman Young and members of the Committee. FlixBus and Greyhound welcome the City's focus on developing plans for a permanent home for intercity bus service in Philadelphia and the infrastructure that the city and its residents deserve. We value our close collaboration with the Office of Transportation and Infrastructure Systems, the Department of Planning and Development, the City Planning Commission, the Streets Department and the City Council to support current operations and provide active input on future planning. We are committed to working together with all stakeholders to deliver the best possible service for the city of Philadelphia and we'd be happy to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you.
Hello. Thank you very much. My name is Peter Picknelly. I am CEO of Peter Pan Bus Lines in Springfield, Massachusetts. I appreciate the opportunity here to talk about the importance of the bus terminal here in Philadelphia. And while I really promise to be brief, I think it's important that you understand the scope of our business and our industry to the city. I think it'll give you a good perspective and I'm prepared to do that. First of all, Peter Pan, we're a family-owned business. It was started 92 years ago by my grandfather. I'm third generation. My son over there sitting, he's the fourth generation. We've been serving Philadelphia for 34 years. We run service to 100 communities in the Northeast. But none are more important than Philadelphia to us, very important. C. We operate 15 daily trips midweek out of 16 Philadelphia. And also into 17 Philadelphia on weekends and 18 holidays, we run more than 50 trips 19 a day into and out of Philadelphia. 20 I'd like to give you -- 21 we carry thousands of passengers 22 every day in the breakdown of our 23 passengers. So for you to 24 understand, 41% of our passengers are students, 26% of our passengers are seniors, 21% of our passengers are commuters. The rest are daily visitors. C. Once passengers get to either those two cities, they can connect with 2800 cities throughout the United States. Amtrak on the other hand only services 500 cities. The average bus company visitor when they come to Philadelphia spend $125 per day on shopping, restaurants, et cetera. That does not include overnight stays in hotels. People take buses because there's a high frequency of service in their very affordable fares. I think you would be surprised, Councilman, that according to the American Bus Association more people ride buses in two weeks than take Amtrak in an entire year. We are a vital part of moving America and we're a vital part of moving people in and out of Philadelphia. The average bus fare from Philly to New York City is $18. Train fare -- and the bus takes two hours. The train takes two hours. It's exactly the same time frame. An Amtrak fare to New York City can be as high as 70 bucks and Acela fare to New York City starts at $80. It's a significant difference cost for the consumer to travel by train or by bus. When we moved out of the Greyhound terminal, we saw an immediate drop of 47% when we moved from Filbert Street to Spring Garden. There's no amenities there. We even have porta-potties that are about 100 yards away in a back alley. We do salute the City for working with us because we had very little time to move. I think we had a three-week notice to get out of the Greyhound terminal and we worked with the city to move to Market Street and then that got too congested, and they moved us to Spring Garden. The City was helpful to us, but the locations we now have are just not acceptable for our customer. Most of our customers take public transportation to the bus terminal. That's how they get there. There is 400% less frequency of public transportation to Spring Garden than there was to the Greyhound bus terminal. That's a huge problem for us. When we make it difficult for passengers to get to the bus terminal, we're really displacing passengers with disabilities, seniors, students, families with children. People depend on our service for all sorts of service. I mean, there are people that would not be able to go to college, wouldn't be able to go to college right here if it wasn't for the bus service we provide or the seniors who need medical service in Washington or New York, they wouldn't be able to get it if it wasn't for what we do. We provide a very necessary service. Philadelphia -- this is a very interesting statistic that I'd like you to really think about.
Out of the 100 cities we serve, and we serve every major city in the Northeast, Peter Pan sold more cash fares in Philadelphia than any other location, which tells me those customers did not have credit cards, which illustrates, I think, it's logical to assume they're less affluent. So the largest decline in sales we saw when we moved from Filbert Street from the Greyhound terminal to Spring Garden were on cash sales. So what we've really done is we've taken advantage or we've disadvantaged the most vulnerable in our city and that's a real concern to us. When we also moved to Schuylkill near 30th Street Station, thankfully we were able to rebuild some of the business we've lost, but we're still at a negative. We're still at, you know, 10% to 15% less than we were when we were at the Greyhound terminal by servicing both locations. The new bus terminal in Philadelphia has to be in Center City. That's where our customers want to take the bus. That's where it's most accessible for customers to take the bus. I heard Mr. She say 30th Street Station. We think that's an excellent option. We really do. We're actually working with the city of Providence right now to build an intercity bus terminal attached to the Amtrak Station. It's a public-private partnership. It's a great way you can get something built cheaper, faster. We have experience with this and we'd love to work with the City on it. Philly is an amazing city. It's one of the most amazing cities on the planet. It needs a better bus terminal. Our company's committed to Philadelphia. We're committed to providing first-class transportation, but we need to do a better job. People deserve a better bus terminal than what we have now and they need a new bus terminal quickly. Thank you. )
Thank you so much for your testimony. Just how important is it for your business, can you re-emphasize for us how important is it for your business to be located in areas where there are other modes of transportation for your customers?
It's essential. That's where the biggest decline was. You know, we feed off each other. Our customer takes public transportation to the bus terminal. They just do. There's some that we call kiss-and- ride. They drive there. Well, here's another interesting point. If you take an Uber from City Center to Spring Garden it's $15. That's almost the same amount of money it would take to take the bus to get to New York City. You're doubling the cost for the customer who can least afford it.
I'll second that as well. One of the most important things that we also see is the same, mostly people taking public transportation to reach the bus. And ultimately that connection is not just -- I mean, the current customer, right, but also thinking ahead. And again, what this is about is planning for the future as well. We're talking about population of people where the car ownership is on the decline. More people are utilizing public transportation. This is the way of the future. And ultimately, it will best serve not just our business but the city to have the connection between public transit and really any long-distance intercity transportation, including the bus.
One of the reasons -- I wish the Professor had mentioned it, but one of the reasons that there are no 5 standalone bus terminals or are not a ton left in the United States, we operate some, but one of the reasons there are a few is because we feed off each other through intermodals and there are federal dollars out there that promote intermodalism. So the most successful terminals throughout the country are those that have trains, buses, transit buses, Ubers and taxis all in one building. We feed off one another and we all prosper. And that's what the best model is. And that's what I think Philadelphia -- Philadelphia, this is Philadelphia, right --
I know, right. And for Peter Pan, it's the third largest bus route we have and we serve 100 cities. We love Philadelphia and we're staying here. People deserve better.
I agree. I agree. Any questions for members of this panel? Chair recognizes Councilmember Phillips.
I'll be quick so we can keep it going with the other panelists. But just wonderful to finally meet the Peter and the Pan.
Yeah, the third generation and the son's over there, right. My gosh, what a family lineage.
He wants me gone so fast. He wants to put me out to pasture.
I know. Got to keep the family business going. But I just want to just commend you for the work that you're doing. I just want to ask you just really quickly if we did move to the 30th Street Station, but just trying to think about what can we do now, right? That's a future thing according to Planning. What can we do now to make this easier for residents? Because it's starting to click to me why it would be so much harder for folks to get down to -- I actually just drove by there the other day. I was like, oh, wait, I'm about to do a hearing on this and it was shocking.
We really wanted a temporary location underneath the underpass on 9th and Filbert. We thought it was ideal, could hold about six or seven buses underneath. It was close to the mall, in facilities, there was great space there but we were told we couldn't use it because the Parking Authority was moving their offices there. In my view, you could easily fit that out within two months and you could move the bus terminal there. It's back in Center City. That's what I think you could do as a very quick temporary move. (Applause.)
And it would have waiting rooms. Long- term I think 30th Street Station, connecting it is a great option. It's what makes intermodal successful in other areas. I also like the old police station. I think that that's a nice location as well. And I'll develop it for you. I'll buy it, I'll pay for it and lease it back to the city.
I'm telling you and we'll do it. We've done it elsewhere. We're working in Providence to do it now.
I'll emphasize some things that folks mentioned before that are really I think key for what's missing right now on Spring Garden, which again Philly is a city that's in an area that gets what I call real weather. So having taken the bus actually down here from New York today, so yay, on our actual service that we provide and being out there in the rain, we really, really, really want to make sure that a city like Philadelphia has something that is not just under an overpass but really has acclimatized waiting area. Y'all get snow. We get snow everywhere really in the Northeast. So, snow, cold, but on the other side too, it gets hot. We want to make sure folks are comfortable waiting when they're with their luggage, maybe with their kids also. And it's a hot day in the middle of summer --
And that's the part that we're missing. See, there's some point of privilege, I haven't taken the bus in a long time. But folks --
But I was going to say you're right, why would I want to stand outside while it's hot, while it's chilly, cold. Yeah, I might need to get to New York, but the Greyhound what it did afford is that you could sit in air-conditioning in the heat, you know, and it was cold. So, yeah, we got to think of something.
If you don't mind, in my temporary solution of 9th and Filbert there's plenty of room. We would build out for indoor waiting area. It would be sheltered from -- the buses would be sheltered. It would be ideal for a temporary location short-term until we build something somewhere else. In my view that could be rebuilt. You could have a waiting room for 100 people at least, maybe more and there's amenities and there's shelter for the buses. It would be a good temporary solution in the core.
Thank you so much. I mean, that's one reason why I wanted to emphasize if we were still looking at privately- owned land, you know, because I think a public-private partnership in this could expedite this because we have no timeline essentially or we don't know. But if we can look to the private market, the private sector, to help us expedite this, I think that could be very useful. I know Mr. She talked about all the incentives that are there that are possibly available. So I would love to speed this up because time is of the essence when it comes to making sure that we continue to roll out the red carpet for our intercity bus travelers. Are there any other questions of these panelists?
Because I listened to pull so many others, we pay a significant amount of money in terminals like Boston. We pay a per gate fee. We pay over $200,000 a year to use the Boston bus terminal. We use seven gates there. We pay a departure fee and we pay per gate and then we also pay for any ticket counter space we have. Washington D.C. is unusual. We actually pay per passenger. But in most cities you pay gate fee. You pay to use and own and operate from a gate and you pay departure fees. We would give you all that information. And we also took a bus tour from Philadelphia, I don't know, last year. I participated on it. And there were a bunch of people from City Hall and we took them on a tour. We went to Baltimore. We went to Washington, D.C. and showed them some other bus terminals. We'll be glad to do it again for the Council.
Thank you so much. I'll be more than willing to take you up on that offer so we'll be reaching out. So thank you so much for your testimony.
Matt Ruben, Sydney Rexroad and Hercules Griegos. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
It looks like we have a few additions here. We also have Natalie McNeil who is a business owner on Front Street.
Thank you so much. Just state your name for the record and begin with your testimony.
Sure. Thank you. MS. McNEIL: Hi. My name is Natalie McNeil and I'm the owner of Ends Hair Design and Day Spa. I have been in business for 38 years here in the city of Philadelphia. I have been located on the 600 block of Front Street for the last years. And good 7 afternoon and thank you for 8 allowing me to speak. 9 I chose the neighborhood 10 because I was -- it was peaceful 11 and diverse and easy for our 12 clients to access, especially with 13 free parking. We watched the area 14 grow over the years and we've 15 welcomed the growth. But about a year ago things changed dramatically when an intercity bus stop was placed on our corner without any notice or communication. What followed has been disruptive and honestly distressing. Strangers, some would stay for long periods of time, wash up in our bathrooms. They would pretend like they were getting their hair done, but really they were waiting for the buses. And so, they would come in and sit and go ask to use our bathroom and sometimes get washed up in there. We have also had -- they were using our salon as a private bathroom. Some would stay for long periods of time. We started finding the paraphernalia and trash outside of our salon. One morning I arrived to find mattresses, food clothing spread across the front of our businesses. It was overwhelming. For the first time in 15 years we had to start locking our door. We've been there for 15 years. We've never had to lock our doors during the daytime while we're working. You know, you get fresh air, clients like looking out. But once this bus came, then we had to lock the doors. And so, we have now been having to keep our doors locked. So every client that comes in we had to put a bell outside. So now we have to ring people in, lock the door as soon as they come in and then do our clients and then relock the doors. We have learned again that without proper notice that parking spots were going to be taken up on our block, six parking spots where they were going to put porta-potties. And once we found out about that, we notified different -- our Councilperson and our State Representatives. And fortunately, we were able to stop that so they did not put the toilets there on our block. I'm here today to say small businesses like mine deserve a voice. We are the fabric of this community. We want to grow with Northern Liberties, not to be pushed out of it. And please don't make decisions that put our safety in our livelihoods at risk. Thank you.
Hi. I'm Sydney Rexroad. I'm a Northern Liberties resident, the former Executive Director of the Northern Liberties Neighbors Association and I'm currently the Executive Director of the Northern Liberties BID. I've been working on this issue since January of 2024 about a month after the city dropped bus operations on our sidewalks without any advanced notice. In that time I've worked with some really great folks from OTIS and the Planning and Development Department that I know they're just doing their best in the bad situation that we've all found ourselves in. Northern Liberties has shown our openness to working with the City from the beginning. The NLNA immediately began documenting and reporting issues to the city and fielding complaints and questions from our community. We've even advised the City on some safety and operational strategies. It was a lot for a neighborhood organization with a paid staff of one, but we wanted to help. Unlike other neighborhoods that have been considered as potential hosts for bus operations, we said, yes, we will work with you and we've done so ever since. The addition of bus operations to an area without the needed infrastructure has caused a lot of strain. Despite bi-weekly meetings between City and neighborhood representatives, many of the issues present from the beginning, like trash, pedestrian and bike safety, bad behavior from bus carriers, a lack of basic amenities for bus passengers are ongoing. We continued working with the City even as it became clear that the resources needed to make this success were not coming. And as the timeline for moving the buses out of the neighborhood shifted from three months to nine to a year to the limbo that we're in now. Late last year we were told that the City had made a plan to move bus operations; first to a medium-term interim site, then a long-term interim site where they would remain until a permanent bus depot can be built within the next decade or so. We have repeatedly asked questions about the selection process and timeline for these sites. The City has shared almost no information with us, while the talk of the medium-term site and moving from Northern Liberties both have stalled. I'm really proud of my community for the good faith effort that we put into making this work, but we have not been treated in kind. The City's most recent plan is to drop a few trailers into a parking lot shared with PennDOT's I-95 construction equipment and call it Philadelphia's intercity bus station for the next 10 years. The NLNA and NLBID both formally oppose this plan along with other community organizations as it blatantly ignores the needs of both bus passengers and the needs of our community. I'd like to thank Councilmember Young for introducing this resolution, for inviting me to testify. I believe that City Council is essential for ensuring that we find a real solution that shows respect for bus passengers, Northern Liberties and for Philadelphia.
Chair Young and the rest of the members of the Committee, thank you for this opportunity. My name is Matt Ruben. I'm a 33-year Philly resident and a longtime board member of the Northern Liberties Neighbors Association. I'll be brief and would welcome follow-up questions. As Sydney has noted, we've worked in good faith with OTIS and the Department of Planning and Development. We are not NIMBYs. In fact, three of the five potential alternative sites I mentioned in my written testimony are in or on the border of our neighborhood. It's drawn to consider only Northern Liberties, but we're willing to listen to a sensible proposal if the City ever makes one. The officials we've dealt with are well-intentioned, but in our experience the City's site vetting and decision-making process is opaque, dysfunctional, and irrational. A block from Spring Garden, a block on Callowhill is the Delaware River Waterfront Corporation's existing permanent bus facility, climate- controlled bathrooms with indoor plumbing, large waiting area, lighting, security, bus slips, easy highway access. They have repeatedly offered this to the city and they have been repeatedly told no, thanks. All the site needs is an ADA ramp up the driveway from the sidewalk. For less than the City has already spent trying and failing to manage the situation on Spring Garden, we all could have been spared the misery, disruption, and confusion of the past months 13 and still the City says no to this 14 as an interim solution. 15 Same with other possible 16 sites. In my experience, they rule 17 them out based on bogus or fixable 18 issues while letting everyone suffer from worse, unsolvable problems on Spring Garden. And now, as Sydney noted, appear to be considering a truly awful plan for the next 10 years still on Spring Garden. In my view, Council must force the City to open up the process and listen to reason. Next summer as you know bus volume will increase by an order of magnitude. Philly will be in the international spotlight. And in my view, the city is unprepared. A disaster is looming and I urge Council to act immediately for the good of bus riders, my community and our city. Thank you. (Applause.)
Good afternoon, Councilman Young, Councilman Phillips. Hercules Griegos here today on behalf of Northern Liberty's Phase Owner, LLC and Northern Liberties Phase 2 Owner, LLC, owners of the property and approved development at 700 North Delaware Ave. The proposed development spans two full city blocks of the 700 blocks of North Delaware to the east, North Front Street to the west and the blocks of Brown Street to the North and Fairmount Avenue to the south for the better part of this decade. We have worked tirelessly with various city agencies, numerous community organizations, countless near neighbors and many other third- party professionals to obtain approval to begin construction of this large-scale transformative residential development project consisting of two seven-story buildings with 466 units, landscaping right-of-way improvements, along with a pedestrian-focused retail promenade at (inaudible) Street, including 16,000 square feet of commercial retail with entrances facing 79 through 99 Spring Garden Street. Here today to express our opposition to the city's consideration of an interim or permanent intercity bus terminal at that location, quite literally across the street from our development. My clients have invested $222 million and continue to dedicate considerable resources, investment Capital in that area. More importantly, I think placing an intercity transit facility with high volume of large bus traffic making use of surrounding roads and major corridors directly adjacent to the newly-created pedestrian-focused retail corridor poses significant safety threat on visitors, residents and customers. I'm going to try to summarize the rest because I know we're a low on time, but I just want to add that we spent considerable time and I know there's been considerable work with Mr Rubin, the Bid DRWC and others to make sure that Delaware Ave becomes pedestrian-friendly and developable and we're starting to see that planning come to life today. And there's lots of opposition to auto-oriented uses. The Planning Commission opposed at least two auto-oriented users, maybe more along Delaware Avenue. My clients have joined in to work to create pedestrian-friendly retail access. And now, introducing this large auto- oriented use I think is contrary to that planning and all that work we've done. So my letter has been sent into the record, but I'll just close to say that we think the City should reconsider any proposal for 79-99 Spring Garden Street. Thank you.
Thank you so much for your testimony. I just want to note that as the City continues to plan for the future I would hope that there is a deeper involvement of the community of the RCOs and the planning process because to spring something like this on the community without notice, I mean you guys have expressed a lot of frustration with that. So I do hope that we as a city can do better in talking to the community about some of these future development plans. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Phillips.
I also want to see if we can get on record a response to your question from the city about why we did not use -- I forget the location.
There you go. Why was that not explored just out of curiosity, so at some point we'd like to get that from the city. Thank you.
Thank you so much, Councilmember. If I could just say one thing in response to your comment. The exchange that the two of you just recently had with the gentleman from Peter Pan with his thoughts about possible sites is far more transparent, opaque and direct than any interaction we've had with the City discussing potential sites in our neighborhood let alone other potential sites in the city. And that's part of what our frustration is. Thank you.
Thank you so much for coming down here giving us your testimony on that. We really appreciate that as we move forward. Ms. McDonald, can you please call the next panel.
John Chen, Deborah McCarty and Blake Carroll. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Thank you. And as you're coming up to present your testimony, we do have some written testimony that is submitted for the record. If you could summarize your testimony, we really appreciate that. Thank you. State your name again and begin with your testimony. MS. McCARTY: Good afternoon, Vice-Chairman Young and -- well, nobody else is here. My name is Deborah McCarty and I serve as Co-chair of the Powelton Village Civic Association Zoning Committee and I'm here on behalf of the Civic Association. We believe that a permanent location for an intercity bus terminal, which all buses utilize, not having them everywhere, is very much needed. Not that long ago Bolt and Megabuses utilized the 3000 block of JFK Boulevard as their "terminal." This use was a constant source of aggravation for many of us. These sources of aggravation and annoyances varied. Among other things, they included that awaiting passengers invariably blocked the footway, making it difficult for pedestrians to make their way through the maze. Vehicles blocked traffic lanes while dropping off, waiting to pick up and then picking up bus passengers. The fumes from idling buses made it miserable for any of us walking through or riding our bikes past that area and the area was constantly trashed with remnants of what appeared to be, and more likely, bus passengers' snack packagings. These experiences and what has been observed at other locations inform our testimony today. While we take no position on a specific location in the city where terminals should be located, we strongly believe that wherever it is situated certain factors should be adhered to and taken into consideration. These include: error management laws and regulations should be aggressively enforced for all idling buses. Unfortunately, our observations is that enforcement is lacking in this regard. This is not only a waste of fuel. The fumes are noxious and unnecessarily pollute our environment. No idling should be tolerated. An area for cars to pick up and drop off passengers should be provided since the car and bike travel lanes are not blocked. Enforcement for blocking these lanes has been irregular at best. All violators should be promptly ticketed. Something I haven't heard today is a secure bike storage area should be provided for bus ticketholders that ride their bike to and from the terminal. Also, a bike share station should be situated nearby. Folks use public transportation but they also ride bikes. The terminals should be cited near public transportation. We think the Market Frankford El or the Broad Street Line are ideal. There should be bathroom facilities for bus ticketholders, maybe a barcode on the ticket that allows access just for those ticketholders so you don't have other folks using the facilities if that's an issue. It should not be cited where residents will be disturbed by noise. The station ground should be kept clean and trash-free at all times. And while it probably goes without saying to avoid traffic jams, there should be adequate turning radius or radii for buses entering and exiting the station. Lastly, this all assumes there will be a sheltered area for passengers to wait for their bus. In summary, we contend that our great city does deserve a first class intercity bus terminal. If the issues I've stated are taken into consideration when locating and operating said terminal, we believe it will be an asset for Philadelphia. Thank you for the opportunity to share what we believe should be taken into consideration when locating an intercity bus terminal and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.
Good afternoon, Vice-Chair Young. Thank you for having me here today. Thanks for the opportunity to provide testimony on Bill No. 22 250109, which calls for hearings into potential locations for new intercity bus terminal in the city of Philadelphia. For years our community has endured the negative impacts of the Greyhound terminal's location at 10th and Filbert Streets. While we support the importance of intercity transit and connecting people across the region, the placement of the terminal adjacent to our neighborhood, particularly Chinatown, had come at a significant cost to our community's health, safety and quality of life. The buses cut through Chinatown, bringing increased traffic congestion, air pollution and serious pedestrian safety concerns when the Greyhound bus terminal operated at 10th and Filbert Streets. These are just not inconveniences, but they were persistent disruptions that eroded the well-being and vitality of our neighborhood. The situation became so problematic that New Jersey Transit, one of the region's major transit providers, was forced to reroute five of their bus lines away from the Greyhound bus terminal due to what it described as unsafe conditions in 2022. According to New Jersey Transit Senior Vice-president of Bus Operations that redesigned traffic pattern at the terminal forced buses to ride the curb on the sidewalk to complete turns and endangered drivers, employees and passengers. He also noted the lack of a proper boarding area, which could force passengers to stand in active bus lanes. These are just not operational challenges. They are public safety hazards. So we believe a logical and equitable solution is to relocate the intercity bus terminal to 30th Street Station as a major regional hub. It is already equipped to handle large volumes of travelers and offers necessary infrastructure, multimodal connections in space for safe, organized bus operations. The move would improve access for all Philadelphians and visitors while relieving disproportionate burden currently placed on communities like ours. We urge City Council to prioritize safety, equity and smart urban planning in its decision-making process. Thank you.
Good afternoon, Councilmember Young. My name is Blake Carroll, Chair of the Transportation Committee representing Logan Square Neighborhood Association or LSNA. LSNA is committed to actively engaging with the City of Philadelphia, including this Council, the Mayor's office to advocate for and contribute to the improvement of transportation options for all Philadelphians. We believe that a robust and well-planned transportation network is essential for the economic vitality and quality of life in our city. We also recognize the importance of Philadelphia as a welcoming setting and one that provides easy connectivity to neighboring cities and regions. For many visitors, the intercity bus terminal serves as their first point of contact with Philadelphia. As such, its location, design and functionality play a crucial role in shaping their initial impression of our city. A well-designed terminal can contribute significantly to a positive and welcoming experience. LSNA acknowledges that the 30th Street Station is already a significant hub for intercity travel, accommodating Amtrak, SEPTA Regional Rail and many other transit modes. Given this existing infrastructure and its central relocation, we believe that it is a logical location to explore as a potential site for a more permanent intercity bus terminal. We understand the complexities involved, but the potential benefits of colocation are substantial. While 30th Street lies outside our formal registered community organization's boundaries, the development of a more permanent intercity bus terminal in that area will undoubtedly have implications for the Logan Square Neighborhood and its residents. Therefore, we sincerely look forward to collaborating with the City to gain an understanding of how such a facility might be developed. Specifically, we are interested in working with the City to understand several key aspects, how a new terminal would integrate with existing transportation networks within the Logan Square area, including bus routes, bike lanes and pedestrian walkways, how the design of the terminal can effectively mitigate any potentially negative impacts on traffic flow and pedestrian safety. We must ensure that increased bus traffic does not lead to increased congestion or compromise the safety of our streets. Lastly, we would like to understand how the terminal can be designed to provide essential basic amenities for travelers. The current situation with passengers often left waiting outside without adequate shelter, restrooms or seating is simply unacceptable. A permanent terminal must address these deficiencies. In summary and conclusion, LSNA supports the exploration of a permanent intercity bus terminal solution, particularly at a location like 30th Street Station that offers existing intermodal connections. We are committed to working constructively with the City to ensure that any development in this area enhances the overall transportation network, minimizes negative impacts and provides a welcoming and efficient experience for all travelers and look forward to participating in this process.
Thank you so much. I have a question for Mr. Chin. You talked about I guess Chinatown's maybe resistance to a bus terminal there. Can you talk about has there been while the terminal was operated at 10th and Filbert any economic impact that it had on your neighborhood?
The economic impact that it may have had was minimal. Mostly the passengers would arrive shortly before the buses would depart and arriving buses, the passengers would depart fairly quickly after they entered the station so it's pretty minimal. And I guess you're asking because Chinatown is a commercial district, so we have not seen the impact that we think that volume of buses that comes in the area should have, no.
Thank you. Thank you all so much for your testimony. I appreciate you all taking the time out coming down here today. MS. McCARTY: Thanks for the opportunity.
Of 9 course. 10 Ms. McDonald, will you 11 please call the next panel. 12
Stephen 13 Bronskill, Jackson Betz, Alex 14 Malone and David Brownlee. 15 (Witnesses approached 16 witness table.) 17
Thank 18 you all for being here today. If 19 we have received your written 20 testimony, again I'm just going to 21 ask you to summarize if you can. 22 Whoever, please start. State your 23 name and proceed with your 24 testimony.
Thank you so much, Vice-Chair Young. My name is Stephen Bronskill. I'm the Coalition Manager for Transit For Philadelphia. I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today. To be concise here, I represent a coalition of almost 40 organizations focused on sustainable, reliable and affordable public transportation. I just want to join all the folks here in calling for urgency in relocating the intercity bus terminal to an offstreet location that is accessible, respectful and provides dignity and support and amenities for our riders. I really appreciate you and fellow Councilmembers sharing your personal stories of riding the bus. There have been over million bus riders impacted since Greyhound closed its Center City terminal who have been dumped onto Market Street and now Spring Garden Street with very minimal shelter or resources. To give you a scale of that problem, this has been unimaginably hard, particularly for Philadelphians who have disabilities. The current Spring Garden site features a single wheelchair pickup location and the nearby El station lacks an elevator. And so, Philadelphians with disabilities, nearly a quarter million of them should be prioritized in this work in accessibility in a future terminal. This is something that we are also committed to, shelter, bathrooms, access to food and water, air-conditioning and heat, to not block bus and bike lanes. The Spring Garden corridor is one of the critical part of the city's bike network and we need to make sure that we have accessibility measures in place. A PA system and support staff for communication, especially with riders with disabilities and adequate support staff to assist passengers and a smooth travel experience. Operational funding, this is necessary to maintain the terminal's operations and services. Sustainable funding sources identified by the Mayor's office and Streets Department to ensure the terminal's long-term viability and a timeline for construction. A clear timeline to be established by transparency and accessibility to the community. I appreciate the Committee's attention to this today. Just to summarize, Philadelphia requires a bus terminal that supports people and we look forward to working with the Council and the Parker Administration to advocate for a permanent intercity bus station that all Philadelphians can be proud of. Thanks for the opportunity to be here today.
My name is David Brownlee. You already have the testimony from the Design Advocacy Group. I'm one of the Vice-chairs. DAG is a large community of architects, city planners, landscape architects and others interested in promoting excellence and equity in the build environment. And it is simply the case that our disastrously unsuccessful intercity bus terminal has been in our minds for a long time and we welcome the attention of this committee and your attention, Councilman Young, to this problem. We've also welcomed the attention of City Council to city planning issues more generally. There's a lot to be done in that area. We think that the Director of City Planning of Planning and Development Jesse Lawrence got it just about right when in a recent DAG meeting he said that a visitor's arrival at an urban transit hub like a bus station really is a handshake with a new city. And it has to be said that when those use our bus station, and that includes Philadelphians, don't get a handshake, they get a sucker punch. It's a dreadful facility. It's an enormously urgent problem that we have to face before next spring, and I think we are all somewhat discomforted by the pace that's been laid out by our Planning officials. We need to move extraordinarily rapidly and we need to identify a site both for an interim and for a long-term solution. It would be nice if they could be the same place in terms of infrastructure, but we need to be able to put both of those ideas out there to get reaction very quickly. Very simply, the curbside sidewalk Spring Garden Street setup can't be fixed we think even in the short run. That would be like putting lipstick on the face of a pig. We believe that we can do better and that a number of other very potentially useful sites, including 30th Street, including the city-owned land around the Roundhouse, can be identified and moved on expeditiously. So I've painted three alternative, if you will, metaphors for the future: A sucker punch, a painted pig and a handshake. And DAG thinks we all deserve to be greeted with a handshake and a smile. Thank you.
My name's Alex Malone. I'm the Transportation Committee Co-chair of 5th Square advocacy. Some of these points have already been made so I'm going to summarize my testimony for the sake of time. We have been involved in this since 2023 when the Greyhound intercity bus terminal abruptly closed. That closure left thousands of travelers without access to basic necessities. They lack proper shelter. They have no restrooms. They lack food options. They have no seating and they have no clear travel information. These individuals are not simply transitory visitors to be ignored, their residents, their students, their seniors, their low-income workers and families. They are people who rely on the intercity bus travel as their most affordable and often only viable transportation option. The conditions they have, have been unacceptable and that's why we've taken action. 5th Square launched a citywide petition urging city government and the intercity bus operators to establish a proper terminal, one that includes essential amenities like shelter, seating, signage, ADA-compliant facilities, public restrooms and seamless connections to SEPTA and other transportation modes. The public response to that petition was swift and powerful. We got close to 700 Philadelphians who signed on with us and demanded that it be made clear that we must do better for our intercity bus riders. We also partnered with organizations such as Transit Forward Philadelphia, Liberty Resources and Disabled in Action to conduct an on-site assessment of the current Spring Garden Street location currently beneath I-95. What we found was deeply troubling. There's no basic infrastructure, no protections from the elements, a lack of ADA requirements and, most disturbingly, no access to clean drinking water. On an extremely hot day our volunteers handed out water to waiting passengers, an act of basic human decency that should never be necessary in a city of our stature. The situation will only be made worse in the coming years as PennDOT still plans to go ahead with their ill-advised expansion and widening of I-95 through Center City in South Philadelphia, which will cause incalculable harm to the city and its residents. In addition, we collaborated with the Bicycle Coalition of Greater Philadelphia, the Delaware Valley Association of Regional Rail Passengers and the Sunrise Movement to advocate for both short- and long-term solutions. We strongly supported the interim use of the Auto Park Garage in Old City as a safer, more appropriate location, while a permanent solution preferably at 30th Street was developed turning the area around 30th Street into a true multimodal transportation hub, linking Philadelphia with the rest of the country. Let us be clear in this moment. A great city ensures that everyone regardless of how they travel is treated with dignity and respect. Intercity bus riders deserve nothing less than the standards we expect for subway, regional rail or airline passengers. 5th Square is being steadfast in this fight for the dignity of intercity bus passengers and we thank you for your continued leadership and commitment to resolving this crisis with the urgency it deserves and the compassion that it morally requires.
Good afternoon, Co-Chair Young and members of City Council. My name is Jackson Betz. I'm a member of the 5th Square Transit Committee, a Fishtown resident and a frequent intercity bus rider, having used services like Greyhound and Peter Pan to travel the country. Just in the past year I visited Hartford, Connecticut, Dayton, Ohio and Fall River, Massachusetts, among other places by intercity bus. Each of these three cities has a population less than a tenth of Philadelphia's, but as a bus passenger I was treated far better in each of these places. Each of these cities has a real waiting room with heated facilities, air-conditioning, bathrooms and concession stands. Easy connections to other local transit modes and signage and staff to guide me on my journey. But in Philadelphia, I waited beneath the dank, noisy highway overpass. Philadelphia is a city with an extraordinary quality of life and every day I'm glad to live here. But based on my conditions of our intercity bus terminal at Front and Spring Garden, I wouldn't blame prospective workers, diners, nightlife enjoyers, residents and others from arriving in our city by bus, taking one look and turning around and leaving. We need to put our best foot forward and there's no better place to start than our intercity bus terminal. Thank you for introducing this measure.
Thank you. I just have one question for you, Mr. Betz. So when you go to these other cities and see smaller cities, just tell us how you are greeted by -- what's your first impression when you're going to these other cities versus when you come back home to Philadelphia?
Absolutely. All of these cities often offered transit facilities for their local transit agencies that were coordinated with the intercity bus terminal. So Greyhound and Peter Pan would be coordinated with Amtrak, local agencies, et cetera. So it was very easy to hop off the Greyhound bus or the Amtrak train or whatever method I was using and get on another bus to take me to the City Center or whatever friend's house I was visiting, et cetera. They were very clean extraordinary facilities. And Philadelphia has plenty of potential for facilities like that, some of which already exist today. And I hope these could be developed for intercity bus passengers. Thank you.
Thank you so much for that. And thank you all for your testimony. I appreciate that. Ms. McDonald, can you please call the next panel to testify.
Helena Gallant, Nico Meyering, Anthony Lanzilotti. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Thank you. Please state your name for the record and begin with your testimony.
Hi, Councilmember. My name is Nico Meyering and I'm ready to give my testimony. Thank you for having me. I am currently the Chairman for the Mayor's Commission on People with Disabilities. And like many other disabled Philadelphians, I rely on bus transportation very frequently. Like others, I go up to New York for me to see my parents and then I go down to D.C. to see my sister. I'm here to urge all stakeholders in this room and in this city to open and maintain an accessible and safe intercity bus terminal. For ages, our city's approached to intercity bus riders, especially disabled riders like me and maybe some of you here today, has been a mess. We cannot safely stick to our curb in Chinatown nor can we accept a site at Spring Garden with no indoor shelter, no 19 safe landing zone and no elevator at the nearest subway stop. If you weren't freezing, you were getting soaked. If you weren't getting soaked, you were overheating or dodging traffic in your wheelchair. This is embarrassing for Philadelphia, which is the greatest city in the world. This is a civic issue and a moral issue, my friends. Disabled riders like me and my friends deserve better. For over a year we've discussed potential sites for this terminal. These ideas come, germinate and go. In order to take a real step forward on this issue, any permanent site must be accessible. Let's talk about what that means. I invite you all to close your eyes and imagine -- no, dream with me. The ideal terminal is near multiple bus routes and a subway station with an elevator. It has indoor bathrooms, heat and AC. Passengers and ticketholders can sit in a proper waiting room. What separates -- my friends, what separates a bus terminal from a bus stop? Well, a terminal is safe, sheltered and surrounded by restaurants and stores, basic things that every traveler should have access to, not just the travelers who drive. Disabled people like me really enjoy spending money and we want to spend it here in Philadelphia after all. Speaking of driving and parking, if you ever tried to drive or park in the city, you know, one, that it's a nightmare and, two, that by the time you find a spot, your meter's already expired. Thus transit access is not some outrageous luxury. It is an ethical necessity for us all. Like all of you, my heart breaks each time I read about a traffic death or a pedestrian death. These tragedies are soul- shattering and preventable. Every time we design transit around curbside chaos instead of thoughtful infrastructure and universal design, we put lives at risk, especially disabled lives like mine, especially cyclists, especially pedestrians like me. A new terminal then removes that chaos. No more riders waiting in the street. No more buses clogging the bike lane. Instead we get offstreet loading, a safe waiting space and real dignity baked into universal design. Dignity and access not just for the percent of the city, 245,000 17 Philadelphians who are disabled, but also older residents, new families perhaps with babies and strollers and more. Access means we all win. I know we all want the same thing, a Philadelphia where getting around is safe, reliable and welcoming for everybody. A safe, accessible, permanent intercity bus terminal brings us closer to that vision. We want to be a city that takes equity seriously so we have to show it then in the way we treat transit users, especially those of us with disabilities. I urge you now to make sure a permanent terminal is fully accessible. We can give Philadelphians a bus terminal that we all deserve without sending them on a scavenger hunt for an elevator. Thanks everybody. I look forward to working with all of you to make the city safer, more accessible and more connected. Just speak into my good ear. Thanks.
Good afternoon. My name is Helena Gallant and I serve as Transportation Advocate at CARIE, the Center for Advocacy for the Rights and Interests of Elders. Thank you, Councilmember Young, for holding today's hearing and for the opportunity to present testimony on Resolution No. 250109 regarding potential locations of a new intercity bus terminal in the city of Philadelphia. CARIE is a nonprofit advocacy organization that has been empowering older adults, ensuring rights, fighting for dignity, improving quality of life and combating ageism since 1977. CARIE provides advocacy, information, options counseling to about 2000 people a year, helping ensure access to benefits, services and supports. And we have had the privilege of working with many of your offices. CARIE supports a permanent intercity bus terminal to be constructed in a convenient location that meets the following criteria: meets ADA accessibility standards, provides adequate shelter, has sufficient numbers of public restrooms, including ADA-compliant bathrooms, provides a waiting area with seating, is close to SEPTA and other transit connections, has ample lighting and is accessible and safe for all riders, especially those that use wheelchairs, walkers, canes and other mobility devices or riders who are blind or have other sensory impairments. There have been proposals made for a location near the 30th Street Station transportation hub, which would be a promising location to replace a now closed Greyhound Bus Terminal at 13th and Filbert, as it is already a well-utilized location by other transit riders with close proximity to SEPTA Regional Rail, Amtrak trains and NJ Transit. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify today. Preventing cuts to SEPTA is a top priority not only to ensure that there are transportation options once a passenger arrives at a Philadelphia intercity bus terminal, but also for older Philadelphians who rely upon SEPTA to survive and thrive and for their caregivers to have SEPTA service to travel to their homes. We look forward to supporting your efforts to ensure SEPTA's funding needs are met and to construct an intercity bus terminal in Philadelphia that is safe, accessible and dignified for older adults. Thank you again.
I just want to thank you both for your advocacy for some of our most underprivileged populations here in the city of Philadelphia. Your advocacy, your voice, was definitely needed as we continue this conversation. Because again, we are the passengers of this particular service and we want to make sure that it fits what the consumer needs, right, and we want to make sure all consumers have the ability to enjoy the benefits of living in this first-class city that we have in Philadelphia. So thank you so much for coming down to testify.
We will now transition to our public comment on Resolution 250109. As we're limited on time, we're going to ask anyone -- we're going to ask anyone who's providing public testimony to limit your repetitious comments. We have a lot of testimony today that we heard. And so, if you could come up for public comment and just present to us your sentiments on this particular issue.
Alan Fisher, Judith Sachs, Jared Johnson and Ted Zellers. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Yeah. My name is Alan Fisher. Good to talk to you, Councilman Young. I'm not going to go through the speech because I know we're short on time. But I think one thing that really summarizes basically most of what I wrote is a news reporter's quote about Penn Station's destruction in 1963. And Mr. Vinson says, "One used to enter the city like a God and now one scuttles in like a rat." And I think that really describes the discrepancy between people that enter at 30th Street Station and people that show up on the bus, which I've done both. And I think like most people have already mentioned most of the things that I've said on here, but the thing that I would say is that we're in a new era of I guess people talking about construction and infrastructure and everything like that. And it really I think bothered a bunch of people here earlier in the back when one of the transportation people in the beginning of the meeting was like, oh, it's going to take two years to study this. That's kind of not how things should work. It shouldn't take two years to study the damn thing and then actually maybe you get more processes and meetings after that and it takes five, six years to get to a point where you agree on a point and then you build the thing and then it takes a decade or something like that. I think the thing that Philadelphia has over a lot of cities at the moment is that unlike some of the California cities, which are kind of made fun of for this which is that they might take two years to permit a house to rebuild from being damaged by fire, or like in San Francisco, they took like five, six years to approve a toilet or something like that, I think it's really critical for Philly to show that we aren't like that and that we can choose immediately a location near 30th Street because I think we all agree that's where it probably should go, and then move on from there and assign contracts, assign the things that we need to do and get the thing built. Because I think in the midterm, it's like you need to serve the customers like the guy from Peter Pan said earlier better in their current location or different location, but we should just move on to the long-term thing as fast as we can. And like I was looking at the property map around 30th Street, there's 3051 JFK Boulevard that is owned by SEPTA so that would be an appropriate location in my opinion. And 3101 Market Street, which is owned by PennDOT, both are parking lots and both are near 30th Street Station. Otherwise the parking lot next to the Cira building or whatever might work. But that's pretty much all I have to say, so thank you.
Hi. My name is Ted Zellers. I live in Kensington. Thank you so much for having us. I'll try to be brief as well. I moved here in large part because of the public transit options. I sold my car after moving here, which was really exciting for me. I'd say about half my friends are in the same boat, like we're nondrivers by choice. It's what Philly has that's like such a cool thing about it that we really love about living here. I've also spent about 15 years crisscrossing Pennsylvania on Greyhound, FlixBus, Peter Pan. Like you name it, I've seen the good, the bad, the ugly. I've stuck with intercity bus the whole time. But recently it's just the rain, the snow, the hot sun, the exhaust, the wheelers, all this 9 stuff with curbside service has 10 just been too much. And I've 11 started skipping trips to see my 12 parents in D.C. I've started 13 skipping trips to see my friends in 14 Pittsburgh because it's just been 15 so onerous and unpleasant. 16 And my wife recently 17 asked me like, does she think our 18 kids and their friends are still going to be driving around in gas-powered cars. And I said, I don't know. And when I go to D.C. and New York and our peer cities like that with these great intercity bus stations, I think, no, we're going to get there, this is great, I feel seen, I feel like my choices matter. But in Philly, I feel like I have to shout to be heard, even though I'm part of the one-third of Philly households that don't have access to a car. And so, thank you. Thank you so much for listening.
Good afternoon. My name is Jared Johnson. I'm transit organizer for 5th Square advocacy. I'm here today to talk about Bill 250109. As you may have heard when Greyhound left its longtime bus terminal in 2023 at Filbert Street, it left a loop. It left a hole in the community. And as you realize, Spring Garden is not an adequate place for drop-off passengers. And this is not acceptable and it is embarrassing in a major city such as Philadelphia. This puts bike riders in danger and it's costing residents and businesses dearly. As a Philadelphia native myself, the City of Philadelphia can be better than this. That's why I'm asking the Council to find a permanent location for an intercity bus terminal with adequate conditions. There are a few examples that may come to mind and that people might think about. So the first you already heard is 30th Street Station, which is the best option. But I have another option, which is 7th and Race Street where the old Police Rotunda was. I walk around Philadelphia sometimes like once a week and I walk through that area, and it has a great place to park busses. It has wide open spaces. So I was thinking that that would be a good idea. It's also a good connection for the Metro B Line and the newly PATCO Franklin Station that commuters can take to New Jersey and back. Of course, there's always the Filbert Street Station, now that the Sixers arena has been canceled and scrapped. But once again, I think the 30th Street Station will be the best idea. It has good connections to the El and the trolley lines and New Jersey Transit lines as well as Amtrak, so it's all rolled up into one. So in conclusion, whatever decision that is made with adequate amenities of Greyhound, this will help commuters and will help people with disabilities greatly. And one more thing, I know that there's some of us from 5th Square and transit for Philadelphia, probably some of them have left, but for those who decided to stay this long and want all this done, can I get a ride on. Not right on, but r-i-d-e on. (Ride on.)
Thank you so much for your testimony. Ms. McDonald, could you please call the next names for public comment.
Darlene Mencina, Gloria Lamorgia, Francesco Waldmann and Will Tung. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Thank you all. Please state your name for the record and begin with your testimony. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay. I'll start. And thank you, Councilman Young. I'm so appreciative of this and hearing everybody's testimony and I will be brief. I'm a resident of Philadelphia long-time, advocate of public transportation long-time, gave up my car a long time ago. I used the Greyhound terminal for a long time and then it moved to Market Street. And I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe we're doing this, Philadelphia has moved all these buses here. And then when it moved to Spring Garden and 2nd Street, it was shocking to me I have to say. It was so disturbing. I felt it was a real equity issue. I thought to myself how the X did the city of Philadelphia do this. It was enlightening for me because I started feeling like a second-class citizen. We were dumped on the side of a highway. That's the way it felt. And I just, you know, to me the call for doing something quickly, the dignity of everyone. People use buses sometimes because it's affordable, sometimes it is the only way to get to Point A and Point B. Sometimes it's very intentional. And buses are an equalizer. We need to do better. And it has to be connected. Again, connectivity is so important. It has to be central to other modes of public transportation. Accessibility for all. Anyway that's all I have to say because my experience was devastating. Last weekend I took my niece who had some mobility issues and my sister there, and I felt shameful about the city of Philadelphia. I was completely embarrassed. It's like shocking to me that this has been going on for so long. We definitely have to do better. Thank you.
Thank you for your testimony and for your sign as well. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you for having this meeting. I really appreciate it. As a bus person, I never drove. I don't have a car. I always took SEPTA. I always took Greyhound. I remember when the Greyhound terminal was at 17th and JFK before it was at 10th and Filbert. That's how long I've been taking Greyhound. Like she was saying, when you go to 2nd and Spring Garden it's so sad. It's so debilitating for a big city, sixth largest city in America and we are like dumped under an underpass. It stinks like urine. It's horrible at 2nd and Spring Garden. 10th and Filbert wasn't all that great, but it was a heck of a lot better. But I just wish it wouldn't take two years for a permanent station. I think the city should really think long and hard about this because there are a lot of people that take the bus that go to Wilmington, that go to -- I used to go to Scranton four times a year to see my daughter and grandchildren. When you get off at Scranton, it's gorgeous. It's a bus station. It's a real bus station. Even Mt. Poconos, Stroudsburg have a bus station. It was like coming back here, it's like a third world country. It's just unbelievable. Europe probably has better buses now that the German company owns Greyhound. But as a senior, I'm 77 years old. I cannot stand out in the heat. I can't stand out in the cold. So I wish you would -- I wish Council and the Mayor and the Planning Commission, whoever, gets this started. It should have been started when Greyhound closed two years ago. But I want to see a new stadium before I go out of this world. Thank you.
Thank you. My name is Will Tung. I'm a volunteer at 5th Square Advocacy. I'm so glad that Council is holding this hearing, is bringing light to this issue. This is something that's kind of been overlooked since 10th and Filbert closed. A wise man once said, don't tell me what your priorities are, show me where you spend your money and I'll show you what your priorities are, right. And it's budget season. I would love for Council to join us in advocating for a better solution for our intercity bus riders and for Council to come back that up with some funding for the Administration so they can seek a better solution. And I'm glad that Council's here, Council's holding this hearing. I want this to be the last hearing on this and I want us to find a solution. The clock is ticking. 2026 is going to come before we know it and we want to invite the world and we want to show them a good Philadelphia, the Philadelphia we know that we want to put on a good face for the world. So thank you very much.
Thank you all for your comment. And just for the record, I want to note that the sign says, Everyone deserves toilets, shelter, access, equity. So thank you so much for coming out here to testify. Ms. McDonald, please call any other names for public comment.
Thank you so much. I would like to thank you all for coming down here today and joining us for this very important hearing. We learned a lot today. I learned a lot today. And hopefully, we can work with our city to develop what we need to become, you know, to continue to be that world-class city that we are as we look towards 2026 and beyond. And with that, this concludes the business before the Committee on Transportation and Public Utilities. Thank you all very much for your attendance. (Committee on Transportation and Public Utilities concluded at 5:12 p.m.) C E R T I F I C A T I O N I, hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence noted are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me in the foregoing matter, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. __________________________________ TANEHA CARROLL