And of the useful, rentable space, how much of it is presently being used and occupied? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: I don't know that offhand. I'd have to do some arithmetic. 1389 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY
Okay. I believe that in order to get a responsible answer to your critics, you will need to talk about other useful rentable space, how much is presently being used, and what are the best uses for this space, recognizing the need for adjacencies and other considerations -- COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Right.
-- that space occupancy requires of planners. At some point, you will need to put upon the record what, if any, savings were made as a result of consolidation of spaces. I don't know that that's what Mr. Rizzo was asking, but it is not an unreasonable question for people to be asking, Well, why are we renting space if we have space? And I think you need to get an answer, brief and concise, but responsive, answer to that question. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Thank you.
Madame Chair, may I interrupt? We're beyond the recess time. 1390 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY
Oh, you may. And I thank you for doing so. Ladies and gentlemen --
I'm afraid not. We're already two minutes past the mandatory recess. And if I were going to make an exception for anybody, I would make it for you. However, I really do want to be on the schedule. The President has asked us to recess these hearings until 3 o'clock in preparation for a briefing, which we must attend, which has to do with gas deregulation. So if you are on the schedule to be heard, please consider yourself in recess until 3 o'clock. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Certainly.
And would the Members of Council remember that we are recessed for the purposes of that briefing, and we will reconvene at 3 o'clock. Thank you. Donna, I'm sorry, but I do want to stay on schedule. We will come back to where we are at 1391 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY o'clock. Thank you, David. 3 (Recessed at 1:30 p.m.) (Reconvened at 3:25 p.m.) - - -
Ladies and gentlemen, we thank you for your patience. The Committee of the Whole is now reconvened. The recess is over, back to hard work. When we recessed, the Commissioner of Public Property and Public Works and his staff were at the table, and they have now resumed. Please proceed with your testimony. Oh, we were on questions, weren't we? Okay, let's see who's next. Mr. Rizzo, you had the floor when we left.
Madame Chair, I think that if I can recall, we were in agreement with your language.
All right, let me ask the stenographer to read back the last paragraph. Can you do that? Is that a problem? (Stenographer indicates to the Chair that the next person to be called upon was to be 1392 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY Councilwoman Miller.)
Councilwoman Miller, now it's your turn to ask your question.
Good afternoon, how you doing? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Good afternoon.
I just have one question, and it's pertaining to Town Hall, in Germantown, at the corner of Germantown and Haines. There's a rumor going round the community that someone has put in a request to have it demolished, to make more parking available for the 14th District Police Station. Have you 1393 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY heard this one, or are you familiar with that at all? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: It was my request.
Well, that took care of the rumor. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: It was my request, and it was promptly rejected. We are, in fact, have the building moth-balled and --
A little louder, sir. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Is the microphone on? Thank you. The request originated from me. It was promptly rejected and never got to the Planning Commission consideration for capital funds. We have moth-balled the building as you may be aware of. We're continuing to support the building in that fashion as long as we can. And we are doing a roof repair to prevent water from infiltrating and destroying what's left of it.
Okay. Well, maybe at some point, you and I need to get 1394 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY together because there are lots of groups that have interests in other uses for town Hall. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Certainly.
So we put the rumor to bed. There is no current plan to demolish the building and make a parking lot. As a matter of fact, it is being maintained. The Commissioner says it is being moth-balled.
So that it does seem to be that the very next step would be for the two of you to have some discussions about what an appropriate use of that building is, which you perceive to be useful.
Yeah. I mean, I'm familiar with a lot of the problems, particularly around ADA and some of the other issues. I know it's a very old meeting. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Yes.
Well, that was a long time ago too. 1395 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY (Laughter.)
So that was a while ago. But, you know, we have had, prior to me coming here, you know, there was a lot of community interest in saving that building and there's still interest. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Yes, yes.
And the interest has not died. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Well, we continue to support it. The rumor may have been fueled by construction that was going on, which was actually removal of an underground tank that had to be removed. It had nothing to do with any intent to demolish the building, but there is no plan to demolish.
Well, when I heard the rumor, people were saying that I signed off on Town Hall being demolished, and that's what was going through the neighborhoods. And no one else seemed to know anything about it, and that's why I thought I would ask you. 1396 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Okay, thank you.
All right. So we'll get together, we'll call you. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Mr. Mariano, you're next. Would you rather not? All right, thank you. You're now recognized.
Thank you, thank you Madame Chairwoman. Commissioner, on whatever page this is, Service Level Impact Statement, Fiscal 1999 Operating Budget, it has major services activities performed by this department. This is total number of work orders backlog. Now, I just picked electrical for obvious reasons. But it says, in Fiscal Year 98, there's 215 orders backlogged, and that's an estimate 'cause it's not done. And then you project in '99, 204 backlogs. What causes a backlog, not enough manpower or getting material or. . . ? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Well, to put it in its full context, two years ago, the backlog was 1397 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY in excess of 2,000.
You should have put it on a chart, it would have looked better. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: What we now have is a rolling backlog. Those repair orders that are too complicated for to us deal with quickly -- and they get aged onto schedule -- they get carried forward from month to month as part of the backlog. They take more work, they take longer to get taken care of. And in a couple of instances, we just can't handle them, and they're future capital projects. But as those age and get taken care of, new ones join that have a higher priority or a quicker turnaround. So there's always sort of like a live load in the case of each craft shop. There's a certain number of work orders that cannot be attended to immediately, and they float in that backlog status for a while. But it's dynamic. As some drop off, others join the backlog and it stays that way.
Commissioner, when does one of these work orders become a capital 1398 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY project; when it's too big for Public Property to handle? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: When the pattern of repairs suggests that we just can't keep things going because it takes too much manpower to keep, you know, to keep a device functioning. Or usually it emanates from the using or the attendant agency since we do service multiple departments. When they conclude that they really can't take the service disruption associated with it and it's beyond our permanent repair capability, whenever the next capital cycle comes along, it gets added on to the list of requests.
The money for the regular projects or repair in our office or something is the operating budget, right? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Yes.
And this comes under your capital budget when it becomes a big capital project. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Well, repairs are done as a General Fund expense. When we can't do it, it becomes programmed as a capital expense. 1399 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY
And then you sub that all out through the City's -- COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Through the contract bidding process.
Is there anything that -- and I don't want to say "circumvents" the contract bidding process, 'cause Councilwoman Clark will --
She'll probably shoot me with the darts in her eyes. But is there a way -- like in PHA, we had a thing called "The Arts Program" -- I don't know why they called it that. But what PHA does is they hire directly from the union halls of the building trades. I mean, if we could get you electricians down here, and Public Property could be the contractor, therefore, we could work around the bidding process and save all the money for the RFPs. And when you're done doing that projects, those two electricians go back to the 1400 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY Electricians Hall. The carpenters, those ten carpenters, go back to the Carpenters Hall. And the plumbers, the sheet-metal workers. Isn't there some way -- is that something we could talk about in the future? And we could save the money -- now, we're not talking about big projects. Of course, we bid them out. Is that something we could talk about? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: If you mean that in the context of Public Property?
Yeah. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Those types of repairs, which would also be Police Department repairs, Fire Department repairs --
Sure, everything, everything. 'Cause all your different repairs, you could keep two or three -- see, your problem with hiring people is -- COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Well, it's bargaining-unit work.
Right. Your problem with hiring the people -- but if it's capital, is it unit work, your bargaining-unit 1401 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY agreement with -- COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Oh, I see. You mean substituting using an electrician's labor for a capital replacement or a repair.
Right. You see where I'm going with this? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Uh --
Because when you have to hire people, and I have nothing against you hiring electricians, your tradesmen, whatever, but you have to go through a whole process. Now, PHA figured out a while ago that they would rather deal right with the union. They use the electricians for two months, three months, four months, whatever the trade is, and then you send them back to the Union Hall 'cause you might have a lull. Then you might have a project to keep them busy for a year. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Mm-hmm.
And I understand that if -- COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Well, I would have -- departmentally speaking, I obviously would 1402 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY have issues with the leadership of the union that would have to be (unintelligible), that would have to be overcome, but the idea has actually been explored some years ago.
You mean I didn't come up with it? And I thought I was the smartest guy. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: I recall, during my days in the Managing Director's Office, when a similar idea was put forth. And I don't recall what the reasons were for it not advancing, but it hasn't advanced, it hasn't happened, not with City forces.
All right, thank you. That's it. Madame Chairwoman, thank you.
I thank you very much. That is a novel approach to which we should have a good deal of discussion on before you implement it. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Thank you.
All right. Were you through, Mr. Mariano? Did you have any other questions? 1403 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY
Thank you very much. Let me just ask one short question, and then I'm going to call on you next, Councilwoman Fernandez. You're next. Commissioner, when in calendar year '99 -- in Fiscal Year '99, do you expect that the contract will be awarded for the 800-megahertz system? And when thereafter do you expect it will be operational? DEPT. COMM. JAMES: Good afternoon. My name is Joseph James. Sorry. (Adjusts microphone.) DEPT. COMM. JAMES: Good afternoon, Council.
Is this Public Property equipment we're working with? (Laughter.) DEPT. COMM. JAMES: Did we rent this out? I'm not sure if it's ours or not. I'm sorry.
Thank you. 1404 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY DEPT. COMM. JAMES: We anticipate it will probably be in the first fiscal quarter of 1999 that the awards should be made, depending on us keeping to what we expect to be the schedule. And it should then take, probably, about months for the beginning, when we start 8 to see the first parts of that work of the system 9 actually starting to be put together, the tower 10 sites brought on line, and the vendors starting to 11 place the equipment. 12 But it will probably take several 13 years. 14
So give me an 15 estimated date in the Gregorian calendar. 16 DEPT. COMM. JAMES: For the system to 17 be up and operational? 18
Yes, sir. DEPT. COMM. JAMES: If I understand your question?
Yes, sir. DEPT. COMM. JAMES: I would say around 2 -- in the year 2006. That would be my --
2006? DEPT. COMM. JAMES: Well, it takes a 1405 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY five-year period for the system to be brought up on line, all of the departments to be moved over and migrated onto that system, and the system to be fully shaken out and operational. It's anticipated it will take several years to do that. That will mean that we won't have the benefit of it in the early parts of year.
Well, when will we start to benefit from it? DEPT. COMM. JAMES: I would say that if we anticipate the system to be up in two years from the time we made the award, from fiscal '99, that we will start to see the first departments actually start to use the system. And then they will start to gain the benefits of the system at that time.
Well, speaking of benefiting from a system, could you briefly tell us what that system is and what benefits we're expecting? DEPT. COMM. JAMES: We're anticipating awarding a system for an 800-megahertz digital-trunk simulcast system, which will be a fully digital radio system, as opposed to the 1406 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY current analog system that we currently use today. It will be digital in its concept that we will have the greater flexibility of bringing together specific talk groups of specific departments to communicate as they have the need to in their respective departments, to better communicate across departments and merging departments, depending on an emergency of the type of incident that would be involved, but they would have the ability -- Now they have an encrypted system. They would have the ability of the expanded use of all of the 800-megahertz channels, as opposed to having a very selected and sectorized system.
Does that include our 911 number? DEPT. COMM. JAMES: Well, the Police Department -- I believe the plan is for the Police Department and our public safety agencies to go on towards the latter part of the system build-out so that we don't affect public safety as we start to move onto the system and get all the bugs shaken out.
Fine. Mr. Rizzo, 1407 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY you'd like me to yield to you?
Commissioner, the 800-megahertz trunking system is, obviously, a very, very costly expenditure. I've asked and I was told by the Administration that this system is being built with lots of extra capacity and that we were going to look for some extra customers to possibly -- like the School District spends thousands of on the rental of a system that they presently operate on an 800-megahertz system. I know that there's interest that the Delaware River Port Authority has need for a new system and are ready to spend millions of dollars. I've asked these various entities, have they ever gotten any -- has any contact ever been made to try to bring them into this system? And I haven't heard one word. So could somebody explain to me about this extra capacity that you purchased and your plan to sell it. And by waiting, people are out 1408 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY there specking out their own systems and not becoming your customer. So, I see a little disconnection here on this extra capacity and the availability to sell some of that air time. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: The original concept was to move forward toward the digitized 800-megahertz system in such a fashion that its capacity would allow with whatever electronic integration would be required with MIS developments City Net developments and so on. There's the possibility that with all that loaded on and all agencies on board, that the system can still handle more -- I don't know what the technical term is, but wavelength, bandwidth capacity. So, naturally, we thought that we ought to be approaching now, even though it's year away, other public agencies in the City and not necessarily limit ourselves to the City, but public agencies requiring that kind of secure wide-band capacity. I will ask Joe James to speak to the extent to which those discussions have developed. 1409 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY
Joe, just before you tell us all that you know, give us your briefest recitation because we are way off schedule, and I've got to get back on it. If you don't mind. DEPT. COMM. JAMES: That's not a problem at all. To specifically answer the question, we have not, at least to the best of our knowledge, engaged the discussions of actually starting to negotiate with other people about the expanded capacity because we're still in the technical phase of making the determination of making the award. So while we anticipate that we will have additional capacity to handle additional users, we are not in a position right now to make that kind of plea or make that kind of proposal to outside agencies about buying onto the system that we have yet to make an award to.
In the case of brevity, I totally disagree with you, that we can't project a system and its capability two years from now, three years from now. 1410 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY We have a school district that's a natural customer, and for us to be spending -- don't even hold me to the number -- on communications, and we're not incorporating them into this mix right now, to me, is not a good way to do business. DEPT. COMM. JAMES: I'm sorry if I was not clear in my answer. It's not that we have -- we cannot project them into the design of our system, I don't think we're in a position without first making an award for a provider of our system to go and give a proposal to the School District or to other agencies about what they could possibly spend on the system, not knowing what the number we have to spend is.
And that, gentlemen, is the beginning of a very interesting discussion, which I encourage you to continue off the record.
Thank you, Madame Chairwoman. 1411 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY
My question is: Will mobile-data terminals be placed in all patrol cars in FY '99? Your briefest answer, please. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Projection is for all patrol cars to have them by the end of FY '99.
Thank you. Councilwoman Fernandez, thank you for your patience, you're up now.
Thank you, Madame Chair. My comments and questions are very brief. The first question is: What is your best estimate of the cost of air-conditioning City Council in the months of November, December, January, and February?
My flag is blowing, I'm about to go get my coat. So I don't understand why air-conditioning -- why we're incurring air-conditioning costs in the month of February, when it's close to snowing outside. 1412 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY COMMISSIONER PEREZ: We don't have air-conditioning on. The room was warm this morning, and we turned the radiators down. While the recess occurred, someone opened the window. And when I returned, we closed the window and ratcheted the heaters -- the radiators back up. The curve for a room of this volume -- I mean, forget about the floor. It's the floor to ceiling, and it just takes a lot for it to catch up.
Well, it feels like cold air blowing my flag. But anyway, I think it would be a waste to use air-conditioning in February. I had talked to the Commissioner before, and I am pleased to know that -- not the Commissioner, but Denise Goren -- that the Phlash will be going to the Art Museum, and she says it will hopefully be by September. So that's an important addition, and I'm glad you're helping the Phlash move forward.
Yeah. 1413 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY
Will it go to the door of the Art Museum, or will it stop down at Akins Oval? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Can I ask Denise to answer that, please? (Denise Goren comes forward.)
I would very much appreciate it if the Phlash, in servicing in the Art Museum, were to go to the door of the Art Museum, rather than at Akins Oval. Please respond.
Denise Goren, Deputy Mayor for Transportation. It will absolutely go up the back, to the most accessible entrance to the Art Museum. It would be absolutely unconscionable to do anything else once we serve that museum, which we hope to do September 15th.
And the last comment I have -- again, I realize that we are running over, so I'd like it brief. Could you briefly -- not Denise, the Commissioner. In terms of the status of the cable 1414 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY renewal contracts, I know we're going to be having some here because there's a lot of dissatisfaction over the escalating rates that cable companies with their monopolies in their different neighborhoods are costing. But what is the status of the contracts? Which ones come up, and in what years? DEPT. COMM. JAMES: I can't answer your question. We'll arrive at additional details later on. At the present time, we are in informal negotiations with Comcast, which has started earlier than their renewal period starts. We're in informal discussions with Greater Media, and have been put on notice by Wade that they wish to start the formal process, which will probably start before May.
And the contracts are up in. . . ? DEPT. COMM. JAMES: The year 2000, I believe, is the date for all of them to be up.
You're starting discussions with all of them now? DEPT. COMM. JAMES: Right. They have 1415 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY the option, and it's part of the process to start, three years out, to start the informal process. And two are taking advantage of that, and Wade is starting the formal a process.
Okay. And I would appreciate like a one-pager on what are some of the issues that you see that need to be discussed in the contract negotiations. DEPT. COMM. JAMES: We'll certainly provide that to you.
Thank you. Thank you, Miss Goren. Mr. Cohen, you're next.
I'm not sure whether the appropriate people are at the table or not for the question I want to raise. I want to raise questions about SEPTA, the City's relationship with SEPTA. I know SEPTA testifies separately on March the 4th, but I'm concerned about the City's relationship with SEPTA.
Isn't that you, Denise? 1416 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY
Yeah, because we put a lot of money in, and it's in the Public Property budget, I see. In the Public Property budget, there's something like, hmm, hmm, hmm. . . It looks like to me over $60 million in one way or the other in the budget, by counting all the three different items. I'm concerned about at least the appearance of impropriety, and maybe really impropriety, in the current relationship between the City and SEPTA. For example, it looks like they're headed for a rough fight. And I get confused when I read that the attorney from SEPTA's David L. Cohen, 'cause he's no longer the Chief of Staff, and, therefore, he's in his private role. And then I read in the newspaper that he agreed with Commissioner Timoney on behalf of the City when Commissioner Timoney came into town a couple of days ago. That's very confusing because I regard what's happening as a straight-out effort by the SEPTA management and Mr. O'Leary, that none of know well. We knew the old management that had 1417 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY been around a long time. We know what David L. Cohen does in labor matters, because he's the one that instigated the big attack on the unions, or at least he participated in it back in 1992. I don't know what is the City's role. We're investing $60 million. And did the City have anything to say about the choice of attorney? Did the City have anything to do about what seems to me to be a strange decision by SEPTA on its own that it was going to take close to $30 million away from the operating budget and decided that's the money that was coming from the -- appropriation, and they were going to use it only for capital purposes? Of course, if you take enough money out of any operating budget and put it for capital, you won't -- you'll have a stringent operating budget, which will require all kinds of sacrifices. But none of that seems to make sense. But it does seem to follow what I recollect as the game plan when the onslaught against the City workers was led by the Rendell Administration in its early days. And the 1418 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY architect of that plan is the fellow representing SEPTA in the private capacity, but he gives in a government coverage when, at the same time, he seems to be representing the City of Philadelphia. So I don't know, Miss Goren, whether you're the proper person or not to be addressing on this issue, but I wish somebody would address the City role. I'm concerned that we're putting 60 million in, and I'm thinking, Madame Chair, at one point, we were concerned enough about what was happening at SEPTA under the old regime, that we took their budget item --
-- and put it into the City Council budget and didn't release the money except as we were assured that things were moving in a healthy, productive way. Now, they're my concerns at the City end. Now, do we have anything to do with what's going on with negotiations? The people widely interpret David L. Cohen's presence as being the presence of the City of Philadelphia. 1419 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY
I think perhaps the best answer, Councilman, that I can give you is, with respect to the line item in the City's budget within Public Property, that number is consistent with a gradual increase and a level of commitment this City has consistently had in supporting mass transit operations within the City. Those numbers show an increase over last year's investment in SEPTA operations to ensure that the same levels of service continue for the residents of Philadelphia. With respect to our role as a city government right now in terms of labor management issues vis-a-vis management and labor at SEPTA, our role is and continues to be that is a matter for them to revolve and look at. Our concern is representing our constituents. And at this time, it's way too early in that negotiation for us to have any view specifically other than to continue to look at facts, issues, budgetary numbers, and the issues that are in front of all of us as citizens of Philadelphia. And I think we're doing that 1420 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY responsibly.
Well, I -- it gives a -- you know, people are very confused down in the community, just as they were very confused by the similarity of our two names, my name and David L. Cohen's name. Many people still believe there's only one David Cohen handling both jobs. I've been questioned at community meetings about do I draw two salaries or only one. And how do I find the time, you know, to do both, act as Chief of Staff and as a City Councilman. It's easy to be confused. The President's confused which is brother all the time because people out in the community only pay a little bit of attention, you know. They don't have the ability or the time to figure out all of these things. But I'm concerned with this very real appearance of a conflict. I think David L. Cohen either has to be representing the City or he has to be a private lawyer representing a private client. And I don't think that Philadelphia 1421 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY ought to be embarrassed. The City government ought not to be embarrassed, and we in City Council ought not to be embarrassed by the statements he makes in the role of private counsel. But then it ought to be understood that he's private counsel. And then I don't think the City ought to go through with this appropriation until that labor situation's settled. I'm very distressed by that decision on that $30 million, particularly. How can they take $30 million. The State says it was not limited to capital funds, that they intended it to be used for operating funds. How can management just take that money and say, Well, we put it aside for capital, therefore, we're very short on operating funds. The money was made available by the -- understanding that SEPTA needed additional operating funds.
I think the best answer I 1422 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY have to that question is that it is not as simple as it has been painted in the newspaper. Specifically, the funds that have been the subject of this dispute were those which were raised in conjunction last year with the increase in the -- gasoline tax. And as part of that resolution in Harrisburg, there was a request to increase funds for mass transit to help, hopefully, at a more level playing field for all modes of transportation. The understanding as to what those funds were to be used for and what those funds can be used for is different. And that is the source of this discussion that I think we're seeing.
Well, what is your understanding of what the funds were to be used for? And contrast that with what the funds can be used for.
My understanding and my role was that those funds were to be used for capital investments. And, in fact, this fall, when those monies were put in SEPTA's capital program, the City rather vociferously participated on how those funds were to be allocated among 1423 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY projects which specifically advantaged the City. So, in fact, our understanding was that those dollars were for capital projects. And the City, if you recall, in September, was very aggressive, specifically in terms of the improvement of that capital program, how those funds would be allocated. In fact, those were funds that we insisted be put into many projects that we had thought SEPTA too long had not advanced, including improvements to the Broad Street subway stations in North Philadelphia, the light rail line on Gerard Avenue.
Right. But could they have been used for operational funds?
Well, now I'm asking you that distinct question. Could they have been used for operational funds?
To some extent, those funds can be -- under the language, as I had read it in the capital budget in terms of what those funds were for. Various -- some percentage of those 1424 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY funds may be used for something termed, and it's an interesting word, "asset maintenance," which is a gray area that falls between the area of capital versus operating expenditure, similar to the discussions we had just earlier about electrical projects, when they become capital as opposed to maintenance.
Madame Chair, I gather from the testimony that it may very well have been, and David Cohen at that time was in the City government in December, was he not? I think that --
You don't believe so? Well, it seems to me that the City may have worked cooperatively with SEPTA management to create this problem, which is then said to be the responsibility of the workers at SEPTA, an operational deficit. It may have been a master plan, and David Cohen because of his -- David L. Cohen, and I don't want to be confused with him. David L. Cohen may have been the architect of the whole plan, but I think we have a very real concern of 1425 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY about that. And I think it ought to be cleared up in order to be made constantly clear that David L. Cohen has no relationship with the City government. And that means not only statements but in action. I do not believe he can be in private practice, helping to try to apparently bust the union that the City's very much interested in and spends $60 million a year for at the same time that he is representing the City in the fashion of acting on behalf of the Mayor and greeting a new commissioner, bringing him into town under an assumed name or renting the room in his name. I think the papers reported that the room at the Four Seasons was taken -- Rittenhouse was taken in the name of David L. Cohen instead of in the name of Mr. John Timoney. I think it's very confusing, and since this is bound to be a bitter battle, I think the least the City Administration ought to do is to be neutral. We don't want to be held responsible in City government for that insane characterization of the inmates running the institution that David L. Cohen used in referring to the SEPTA situation. 1426 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY All right. I think I may have to stop at that point, Madame Chair, but it seems clear that the State -- every State official that was questioned in the Transportation Department of the State with respect to that money said it was never their intent to limit it to capital, and that all of the funding was available for operational purposes.
Mr. Cohen, may we count on you to raise that issue at the SEPTA part of the these hearings?
I rather thought we could count on you. I thank you for raising it here. What, Mr. Ortiz? Mr. Ortiz, do you wish to be recognized?
Okay. Then Councilwoman Fernandez, you're the last speaker to be heard on this issue. 1427 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY
Yes. On that issue, just as someone who worked about two and a half years to try to get the support for the gas tax for highways coupled with the additional dollars for public transit, it was my understanding that both funds were to be used for capital because we had been -- SEPTA had been using capital dollars to plug holes in its operating budget, which, I think, most people know is not a good budgeting procedure. But back to -- the last question I wanted to ask -- and again, let's keep it brief. But on December 29th of '97 Stu Bykofksy ran a column talking about the cell phone use by City employees and noted -- and I wondered if this was true -- that the City had a bill of $796,000 in FY '97. And then, looking ahead to the budget -- looking toward a $900,000 bill in FY '98. And that there were 1199 phones, cell phones, in the hands of City employees. And I wondered, is that information correct? And then my second question is: What process or procedure is used to decide what City 1428 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY employees will get cell phones? DEPT. COMM. JAMES: Let me try to answer your questions as best as I understand them. And, again, if there's not enough details, we'll provide you with the details. As far as the figure, the cell phone use for the City has been running in the range of $700,000. It was not anticipated, as he mentioned in his article, to be $900,000 would not have been a correct representation of the City's expense in cell phones, even though the expense has been rising because the amount of usage has been rising at the same time. We do have approximately 1100 cell phones in use in various City departments and agencies. The process as it's currently used in departments is departments make a decision on their spending of their operating money to assign a cell phone to a particular individual. That decision is then signed off by that Department head and submitted to the Department of Public Property Communications for us to assign a cell phone to that employee. We 1429 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY then obtain it, the cell phone device, from our current vendor, who happens to be Comcast Metrophone. I believe, in Mr. Bykofsky's article, he mentioned there was a cost for the equipment. Under our current contract, the City does not pay for any of its equipment, so that was not a correct statement to be made. So we don't pay for any of our equipment, and all we provide for is the cell phone and the usage. And we then instruct the employee on how to use the cell phone and give that to the individual, and we then set up an account to recoup the funds back from that department once we receive the invoice.
So the department recovers the cost? DEPT. COMM. JAMES: Currently, today, we act as a central agency to receive all the bills, pay all the bills and then recover the costs from the departments.
Could you provide for the Chair a listing of the numbers of cell phones per department and the cost per 1430 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, PUBLIC PROPERTY department; in other words, a breakdown of that $796,000. DEPT. COMM. JAMES: I'll see if we can provide that, yes.
Okay, I assume you keep those kinds of records. DEPT. COMM. JAMES: Yes, we do.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we thank you very much - - -
The next department that we will hear from is the Office of Fleet Management. (Members of the Office of Fleet Management panel come forward.)
Good afternoon. Although, if we were going by our chart, we would be saying "good morning" to you. We thank you for 1431 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, FLEET MANAGEMENT your patience. Would you introduce yourself for the record, spell your last name for benefit of the stenographer, and proceed with your testimony, giving us your briefest recitation.
Madame Chair and distinguished Members of the City Council, my name is Riley P. Harrison, H-A-R-R-I-S-O-N. I am the Fleet Manager for the City of Philadelphia. With me today, to my left, is Nadine Glover, my Budget Officer. And to her left, my Director of Administrative Services, Robert Fox. 5 million. 1 million more than the FY '98 obligations. Most of this growth is attributable to increased vehicle acquisition. 5 million more than FY '98; again mainly attributable to increased vehicle acquisitions. 3 million, which is $100,000 more than FY '98, primarily attributable to negotiated wage increases and a more accurate projection of interfund transfers. OFM's goal has always been to increase availability, improve safety and ensure reliability of the City's fleet so that other City departments have the equipment necessary to deliver a high level of services to the public. We have a very diverse fleet. When compared to the top 100 commercial fleets in the United States, we would rank number 24. Ranked among municipalities, we would rank number 5. Since 1992, the Rendell Administration committed more than $100 million in the General Fund for new vehicle purchases through FY '98 and another $21 million is requested to be budgeted for FY '99, the second largest amount since FY '93. Even with the significant investment, the fleet continues to age. OFM's proposal for FY '99 is to spend $981,000 to rehabilitate 30 refuse compactors by replacing engines. 1433 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, FLEET MANAGEMENT Transmissions, and rear ends on their existing chassis. The replacement of these major components, at an average cost of $83,000 per compactor, will allow OFM to extend the life cycles of these trucks rather than purchase new ones for approximately $130,000 apiece. Preventive maintenance has always been the essential element for having a reliable fleet and a cost-effective fleet management operation. Preventive maintenance is only one important component. Another is quality assurance. Our overall quality insurance program requires that service vehicles are randomly inspected by first-line supervisors and senior fleet managers to determine adequacies of repairs. As part of our continuing effort to continue to improve upon our performance, we have enlisted the services of outside experts to assess our fleet operations, one of which was a former vice president of maintenance for United Parcel Service and the current vice president of information groups for the McGraw-Hill Publishing 1434 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, FLEET MANAGEMENT Company. Effective fleet management depends on accurate operational and cost data to track and analyze broad ranges of information, history, preventive maintenance schedule, and shop performance. With this, we can analyze and improve our productivity and repair accuracy for all our facilities and our employees. " This system now controls the dispensing of fuels to City automated fuel sites. Employee development. As an extension of our commitment to quality and service, each year Fleet Management employees receive one week's worth of training suited to their level of expertise and professional needs. We conduct in-house seminars at least three times a year, with emphasis on preventive maintenance standards, right-to-know training, safety laws, personnel policies, performance standards, and customer relations. OFM is proud of its high school 1435 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, FLEET MANAGEMENT internship program. Since 1994, 50 students have participated in the program, and have become 4 permanent Fleet Management employees. In 1997 5 alone, three interns joined our staff as 6 apprentices, with full civil-service status. 7 We are still committed to alternative 8 fuels.
We are supporting the Municipal Energy 9 Office with the same State and federal 10 participatory funding and the Division of Aviation 11 on a project with the Division of Aviation for 12 alternative-fuel buses, as well as a refueling 13 site. In conclusion, although the Office of Fleet Management has attained many of its goals and improved customer service to other City departments, we still have challenges before us: more efficient network of repair facilities, sustaining our ability to meet higher standards of performance, thoroughly analyzing the new FUMES data to determine appropriate fleet size and composition. Thank you very much for the opportunity to appear before you. I appreciate your support over the last five years. I'll be happy to answer 1436 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, FLEET MANAGEMENT any questions you may have.
Thank you, Mr. Riley, for your presentation. Councilwoman Fernandez.
Just briefly, Madame Chair. I work closely with Fleet Management since it's all a part of transportation. Again, I just want to thank you for your excellent work and the kind of progress that you've made since you came here, what, five years ago? COMMISSIONER HARRISON: Approximately five years ago.
In terms of the number of vehicles that are in service and the preventive maintenance where you all keep us making sure our cars are tuned up. And then, again, it's impressive that the 13 high school students that you'd had in your shop as interns are now employees. Again, I think you should be commended for really, really making some significant -- well, making what a lot of people talk about of making opportunity for young people, you've actually done it. 1437 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, FLEET MANAGEMENT COMMISSIONER HARRISON: Thank you.
Thank you, Madame Chair. Mr. Harrison, I've also been associated with large fleets for the best part of my life, and I want to tell you that you should be very pleased. It runs well but it also looks well. I've had many visitors come to Philadelphia and say how good the fleet looks, the new compactors, the cleanliness of the fleet. It's squared away for a municipal operation. And I want to let you know that a lot of people involved in fleet management throughout the region have mentioned to me personally how good your fleet looks. So I wanted to congratulate you and your team. COMMISSIONER HARRISON: Thank you very much.
Mr. Harrison, I'm 1438 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, FLEET MANAGEMENT tempted to ask you a question, but I should let you go. And I think I will. And I thank you for the presentation. And I associate myself with the comments of my colleague. Thank you for the work you do. COMMISSIONER HARRISON: Thank you, Madame Chair. - - -
Ladies and gentlemen, those of you who are continuing to wait, a revised schedule. We will attempt to get through the Water Department today, and persons in the room 15 representing Licenses and Inspections, the Office of Housing and Community Development, City Planning, L&I, Board of L&I Review, Board of Building Standards, and Zoning Board of Adjustment will please report to this room at 2 o'clock tomorrow. It is clear that we're not going to be able to get through the list, and I would respect for your time, we would not ask you to wait in vain. Is that clear? Water is the last department we're 1439 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, FLEET MANAGEMENT going to hear today. And if your testimony was scheduled after Water, then do please plan to be here tomorrow, starting at 2 o'clock.
Sir, I can only speak to how long I am going to stay. I'm not going to require that you leave - - - (Members of Water Department panel come forward.)
Good afternoon. Please introduce yourself to the record, spell your last name for the benefit of the stenographer, and proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Thank you and Good afternoon, Madame Chair. My name is Kumar Kishinchand. The last name is spelled K-I-S-H-I-N-C-H-A-N-D. I'm the Water Commissioner for the City of Philadelphia. Joining me today at this testimony, on my right, extreme right, is Dick Roy, Deputy Commissioner for Operations. On my immediate right is Michael Nadol who's in charge of our 1440 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT Finance Policy and Human Resources. On my left, I'm joined by Susan Leone, my immediate left. She is the Deputy Commissioner for Information, Science and Technology. And joining us today also is Denise Garrett, who's Chief of the Water Revenue Bureau.
Why are you women so far away? Come on over, join the party. Please proceed, sir. We're a little punch drunk. We've been at this a very long time. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Thank you for giving us the opportunity to testify. And I believe you have the text of my testimony so I'm going to be very brief in my remarks. 6 million for operations of the Water Department. 5 million for support services such as the ones provided by the Water Revenue Bureau, the Law Department, and other central agencies as well as for debt service payments. There are generally three points that I make year after year during my testimony that are of great interest to you and the public. And 1441 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT those are essential. Is our drinking water safe and pure to drink? I'm going to show you that our drinking water is one of the highest qualities. It betters all of the federal and State regulations, and we are continuing to improve on that. In fact, in the last several years, we have improved the quality so that it is some aspects seven times better than what is required by the Federal regulations. The second question that generally is asked is: Is the water that you are discharging into the Delaware River clean? We have actually operated our wastewater treatment plants at very high efficiencies. In fact in 1997, all treatment plants operated in efficiency so that we were in compliance with all requirements, which is given to us in the Clean Water Act every single hour of every single day throughout the year. In fact, we are now eligible for a gold award for each of these three plants. These awards are given by the Association of Metropolitan Sewerage Agencies, which is a 1442 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT professional organization of large municipalities. The third question that is often asked, and is probably the uppermost question on everybody's mind, is: Are you coming in here for a rate increase also? Let me assure you we are not going to be asking for a rate increase in 1999. In fact, we are working very hard to reduce the revenue requirements for even the year 2000. And we believe we'll achieve that. Having achieved our goals of getting our water and wastewater treatment plants operating efficiently, having stabilized our water and sewer rates. We have now focussed a little bit more attention on actually providing an enhanced customer service. As examples of that customer service, we are working with the Water Revenue Bureau to set up a system where there is, if a phone call comes in that we can answer the question, a customer's question, with that one phone call, and in view of the fact that we are two different agencies, and the public itself doesn't distinguish between us, very often Water Revenue 1443 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT Bureau will get questions related to services that the Water Department provides and the Street, and very often the Water Department has questions that are related more on building issues. And instead of having our customers go over to another agencies and giving the perception of the runaround, we have embarked upon cross training our customer service representatives to be able to answer as many of the questions that they can. Looking to the future, we in fact plan to have an interactive voice-response system installed, one telephone call, with a menu available for a customer to select what kind of service they have a question on. So that's one of the examples of how we are improving our customer service. Another one is, we've been reaching out to the public to find out essentially how we can improve services out in the street also.
We, in 1995, conducted a comprehensive survey of what our customers think about Water Department services, and I'm happy to tell you that in excess of 70 percent of the public felt that we were providing 1444 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT good value or very good value for the dollar compared to the other utilities that they have their house on. We've gone a little bit beyond that in the customer service where we are now getting information at the point of service. If we go out into the street and perform some kind of a service, whether it's a water-main-break repair, or whether it's cleaning out an inlet, we send out -- we give out, actually, questionnaires to see how well we did, and we get feedback. And right now, we are in the process of putting this information together and advising our field supervisors as to how they are performing out in the field. And we hope that we will get improved learn from what the public is telling us and improve our service to them. The third area of customer service that you're very familiar with, with your help, we have now started the implementation of the automatic meter-reading installation program. In fact, I'm told by the end of this week, we should have 100,000 meters installed. And, if you recall, this was ordinance 1445 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT that was passed back in June last year. We did not commence installing the meters until the 11th of September. And by the end of this week, we expect to have 100,000 in excess of percent of 6 the automatic meters. 7 So these are the kinds of things that 8 we are doing to improve the customer service out 9 in the street. 10
Mr. Commissioner, 11 are you on schedule with your meter installation? 12 You say you've done 20 percent of the total. Are 13 you on or ahead of schedule? 14 COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: We are on -- 15 we might be slightly ahead of schedule. I would 16 ask Michael Nadol to respond to that. I think 17 he's keeping track of how we're doing. 18 DEPT. COMM. NADOL: There's quite a 19 collaboration of us who are keeping track of this 20 project. Um, I'm sorry, I'm Michael Nadol, N-A-D-O-L, Deputy Water Commissioner. But, yes, we are actually slightly ahead of schedule, which is our intent, to stay a little bit ahead of schedule in case of any 1446 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT setbacks along the way. Of course, with any project of this magnitude, there's some ramp-up period as you need to hire and train personnel, and we have continued to add additional installation, crews even as recently as earlier this month. So to some degree we're still ramping up. It's a six-day operation. When all of the crews are in force, we're installing over 1,000 meters a day and over 20,000 meters in a month, which puts us on a very good pace to achieve full installation.
How many crews have you hired? DEPT. COMM. NADOL: The contract of installation, as you may recall from our testimony at the time that this project was brought to Council for your approval, includes both City work force and additional contracted work force supplied through our contractor under a project labor agreement with the Plumbers Union Local 690. The contracted crews that are augmenting our existing City work force are now -- I think we're just over 60 people employed, just 1447 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT in the installation crews.
What do you consider the size of a crew? DEPT. COMM. NADOL: When I say "a crew," I really mean one person. They work individually, they're dispatched in teams, but they go basically one person to a household.
So you've hired 60 people to augment the Water Department's staff for the installation of the meters? DEPT. COMM. NADOL: Correct. And that's just the installers. In addition to that, there are employees who are operating a call center that helps schedule appointments on behalf of the contractors. There are warehouse employees and clerical employees, a small administrative staff, and so on.
Will you provide us a list of your new hires? DEPT. COMM. NADOL: You mean the contractor's new hires? That's --
Whoever you referred to when you say, "We have hired 1448 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT installation staff." COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: The contractor has hired more people. Our work force, as they exist, the first work force that we had that is working to install some meters, but the contractor is the one who has hired most of the people, because it's a short-term program; it's only a two-year program. And they ramped up hiring, I believe, as Mike -- Mr. Nadol said, about 60-plus people. And those are essentially plumbers, and they are contractors' employees.
I'm still interested to know who they are and the skills that they --. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: You mean individual names, or would you like a breakdown of some other fashion?
I'll take individual names by title, of the work that they do. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: We'll talk to the contractor and see what information we can provide you. 1449 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT
I'm sure he will respond to you. DEPT. COMM. NADOL: Sure. In general terms, as of earlier this month, there were 108 employees.
108? DEPT. COMM. NADOL: Those are the contractor and the subcontractor employees under the project. There were 4 that were in an administrative capacity, 81 were working for the installation contractor, but not all of those are plumbers doing installation work; some are performing other support functions.
When you give it to me, give it to me on a chart. DEPT. COMM. NADOL: Absolutely.
And I'll be able to determine who does what by skill. DEPT. COMM. NADOL: Happy to do that.
Might as well throw their salary out there too, and I won't have to ask you for that. DEPT. COMM. NADOL: We'll see what's available. We'll know -- just for those who may 1450 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT be interested, we do obtain general demographic data consistent with our work force participation and the goals of the Minority Business Enterprise Council. We do have a good handle on that.
In that case, code your list by minorities and women. DEPT. COMM. NADOL: That's very easy to do. And we're proud to report that the work force participation exceeds, well exceeds, the goals originally set by the Minority Business Enterprise Council.
I appreciate that. Please indicate so that we may bear out your assertion. Let's see, on my list are Mariano, Nutter, and Rizzo, in that order.
Thank you, Madame Chairwoman. Commissioner, what's the total work force for the Water Department? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Total work force for the Water Department?
Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: In the 1451 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT operating budget right now, it's about 1790 people. I believe we have that. I can give you the exact --
1790? DEPT. COMM. NADOL: I happen to know this 'cause we've been working very hard to fill some of our vacancies. As of the end of the last pay period, there were 1783 employees on the operating budget of the Water Department itself. That doesn't include the Revenue Bureau or Water Fund employees.
No, the operating budget is what I -- DEPT. COMM. NADOL: On our current capital budget, there are -- at the end of the last pay period, there were 243 or 244 employees.
Is that considered fully staffed? DEPT. COMM. NADOL: No. 22
No? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: No, it's not. We have a number of vacancies.
How long does it 1452 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT -- if a position was -- let's pick out a position, you pick out a position. And if it's empty, how long does it take for you to staff it? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: It does vary.
Do you work through the whole City hiring process? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: It does vary, because if you see our listing of the positions that we have, we have such a wide variety that if there's a list that exists, we get -- we can pick up a new employee very quickly, the turnaround time is very, very short. But if it happens to be a unique position or a very high-level supervisory position, then sometimes it takes a longer time. It may occasionally require reclassification if we can change job functions. So it could take as long as a year. So, you know, it's a very broad --
Do some areas like, let's, BRC, the sludge plant, would every place be -- someone told me that there's like four custodians slotted for every position for every 1453 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT position, for every place, for every facility. Is that an outrageous statement? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Four custodians at each facility?
Do you have a set rule where you like to have four custodians, but in some places, you might only have one, 'cause you can't fill all the jobs fast enough? Would that be a good statement? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: We might have some vacancies in custodial staff. It hasn't been raised to my level that it is a big problem because those are positions that we should probably be able to fill.
This BRC, now, could we safely call that the "Southwest Sludge Plant"? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: No, "BRC" is actually the Biosolids Recycling Center.
Where's that at? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: That's where the solids, which are removed from our wastewater at our Southwest Plant as well as the other --
Okay, but it's in 1454 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT Southwest Philadelphia. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: It's in the southwest, yes, that's right.
I hear if you get sent to it, it's like getting sent to Siberia. Would that be a statement that you've ever heard before? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: I don't believe so. I think that may have been a perception at some time back, if you go back to the late eighties and maybe even in '90. We did have a lot of friction, if you will, between labor and management over there. I think we have turned the tide over there. In fact, if you will notice that our costs have gone down, and it's essentially because of the partnership that has been formed between labor management working together, enhancing the equipment that we have over there. So all of those things have come together, and I don't get the feeling that that's really sending anybody to Siberia.
Okay. Evidently, labor does, but sometimes management and labor 1455 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT aren't on the same page. Is there a big turnover right here, in Siberia? Can you tell me that? I mean, it should be pretty -- in your operating budget, is there a lot of people in there? 'Cause I understand it's a pretty dangerous place and there's a lot of hazardous duties going on there because of, you know, diseases associated with the toxins. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: We -- in fact, we have a very good program over there where we test owl the all the employees; not only there, but at our wastewater plants also.
Do we do intermediate blood testing on these employees? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Right. We have a contract with Jefferson Hospital to do this, you know, keep track of the people. And I haven't -- we have not heard that there's any unusual events going on that hasn't gone on anyplace else. I mean, that's --
Is there any compensation for working out here in Siberia and working around all these toxins? 1456 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT I mean, I never been there, I've heard about it. In fact, I think I worked there when -- not at BRC. I worked for Willard, a mechanical contractor, when they were building it. And, you know, it wasn't a nice place to be, and that was the sewer plant, so I can imagine what goes on here, or what I think, it's not a place to start out with, but it's needed. But is labor compensated? Like, say, you're from the Northeast and you come to me and say, Rick, we need you to go down to Siberia. I'd say, Well, well, I really don't want to go there. You know, I've been with the Water Department 15 years. 'Cause I know guys are getting sick down there. I have a feeling, a perception, that people are getting sick. How often do you test? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: I'm sure there are some folks who probably feel that, you know, that it's not the best place to work. There may be preferences of working at --
But there's no 25 compensation for an employee to go there? 1457 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: There's no 3 extra compensation. For instance, an electrician at our Belmont Water Treatment Plant gets the same salary, same wages as the electrician at BRC or Southwest or the Northeast Plant. Those are fixed.
But, again, I don't think you answered my question about how often would an employee be tested there. Do they get tested once a month? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Once a year.
Okay, and that -- did the Law Department -- did your legal people check it out and say that's enough, once a year? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: It's a voluntary program.
It's voluntary? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: It's not mandatory; it's a voluntary program.
So if an employee just says, Look, I don't want you to test me, and then ten years from now, they sue you, do you have 1458 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT to sign something to say they refused testing or anything like that? What I'm getting at here is the place -- I know what they're making there, and you know what they're making or what they're processing. So one mistake in an open cut could be a big deal for somebody. And it could come back ten years later. I'm not a medical doctor, but I've worked in sewer plants. I know what you've got to stay away from and, you know, it's not a good place to work. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: I think they take precautions, and they know that they're working in conditions where they need to sort of take precautions themselves, just as you and I would do, you know, working.
My next group of questions are about purchasing of items that -- possibly at this plant. Is there a process for purchasing like motors and pumps and other equipment at this plant or any other plant? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Is there a 1459 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT process?
Do you go through purchasing with Commissioner Appelbaum, or do you do that purchasing yourself? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: No, it goes through Procurement. All the purchasing is done through the Procurement Department.
It goes through Purchasing or through your department? I'm sorry, I wasn't -- COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: No, through Procurement.
Procurement. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Procurement buys it for us. We are the ones who request, we specify what kind of equipment it is. It's generally replacement or parts for those equipment, and it's submitted through Procurement.
The reason I'm concerned is for -- what I'm getting down there, and a lot of it is mainly about there, it seems there's a lot of thievery going on down there. And a lot of this thievery may be overlooked 'cause -- 1460 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: I'm sorry, a lot of --
A lot of theft. There's a lot of pumps and motors being moved. Somebody's moving something down there. I mean, if it's important for someone in the labor movement to get that to me, then it must bother somebody's conscience. And I don't think they're giving information about themselves. They may be giving information -- how would we call that? -- not directly about somebody, but there may be something going on down there. Could you check into that? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: We'll check into that and --
And see if there's been a lot thefts with like pumps and items below $10,000. What I hear is if you steal something over $10,000, everybody finds out. But if you steal 10 things for $9,000 and a couple things for $5,000, nobody really checks unless it's over this $10,000-per-item threshold. 1461 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT Does that make any sense to anybody? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: We -- we -- not really, because I think we have an annual inventory program and I think they're on that inventory. We are to count everything that's under -- $500, is it? DEPT. COMM. ROY: Yeah, I believe so. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Yeah, under $500. And I'll that's Dick Roy who's the Deputy for Operations, who oversees that part of the organization, to answer that question. DEPT. COMM. ROY: Back some months ago -- I'm sorry. My name is Richard Roy, R-O-Y Deputy Water Commissioner. Back some months ago, we did have a rash of break-ins, both at BRC and at the Southwest Plant. We increased our surveillance of those facilities. In fact, we almost nabbed one of the thieves. And since that time, it seems that this has stopped.
Sir, did you say you almost nabbed them? DEPT. COMM. ROY: Yes. We had somebody chase them through the plant in a pickup truck and 1462 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT we were able to identify the truck, but I don't know if the police apprehended them. In another case, we had surveillance cameras set up and we had a picture of somebody, but we could not identify him.
So after that chase, you did not apprehend them? DEPT. COMM. ROY: That's correct.
Was anything taken? DEPT. COMM. ROY: Through -- there was a number of break-ins and things were --
Something was taken, something of value? DEPT. COMM. ROY: Yes. 1463 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT
Did you call the police? DEPT. COMM. ROY: Police records have been made on these, yes.