What effort are you making to safeguard and to retrieve the stolen materials? DEPT. COMM. ROY: I don't know that we can retrieve the stolen materials, but we have --
What is it? What was stolen? DEPT. COMM. ROY: We had pumps, some pump motors stolen, various mechanic's tools, thing of that nature.
So there are police reports that identify these thefts? DEPT. COMM. ROY: Yes.
They got serial numbers, they should have -- and pumps and motors -- what I'm getting at here -- and thank you, Councilwoman, for your help. 1464 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT Since you don't do your own purchasing -- say, Councilwoman Clark and I do the purchasing for the Water Department, do you know exactly the Commissioner of Purchasing -- or what do we call that again? Procurement, procurement. The Procurement Commissioner is purchasing for the Water Department.
I mean, could these thefts possibly be a cover-up for people that are -- is there a bigger scheme here with somebody taking things out? Do you know what's been missing there, besides this one robbery where you almost caught somebody? This isn't first time. From what I understand, there's been a lot of robberies, and some major items, some expensive pumps and motors have been disappearing for a while. DEPT. COMM. ROY: We had probably four or maybe five break-ins down at those two facilities.
How about Water Department facilities Citywide, do you have a lot 1465 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT of problems with that stuff? DEPT. COMM. ROY: We've had occasional break-ins, yes.
Mm-hmm, but is it something that would alarm you? Do you feel that somebody on the inside in some City department may know exactly where the expensive pumps are that maybe Clark and I are stealing and selling to Rizzo 'cause he's in that business? Would you know anything about that? Does that make sense? DEPT. COMM. ROY: I don't understand what you're -- where you're going with that.
What I'm saying is that all these robberies and all these burglaries that may have been happening down at BRC or Southwest and on other Water Department facilities, maybe they're a cover-up for bad purchasing habits. Now, it's just a question, I'm just throwing it out. Maybe they're just random thefts. But why the Water Department? Why always the Water Department? You know what I'm saying? 'Cause you guys have some expensive 1466 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT pumps. People don't realize what electric motors and pumps cost. There's some major expenses in these items, and unless you -- I mean, what are we going to do? I wouldn't know what to do with one, and was a mechanic. You got to have somebody who would need that pump. So somebody isn't just coming in there and steal -- in all probability, somebody's not saying, Hey, I think I'll steal. You steal tools and you could sell them to anybody on the streets of Philadelphia. But a pump, most people don't have the use for a high-output motor or a pump like that. So these thefts -- I mean, I didn't go to detective school, but people are giving me this information, and obviously somebody's giving me information. They didn't go to detective school either, but you just don't steal -- these are heavy, you'd have to load 'em up a pickup truck or some big kind of truck that had the shocks to be able to hold these things. I mean, I want to help you here. I just want to make sure you're not overlooking 1467 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT anything. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: We can get a listing of those things that have been missing during those robberies.
Could you get that to the Chair? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Sure, we can identify what's been missing.
So we could see Citywide, the Water Department. I want to see if there's a -- if my information is true, if something's going on. Believe me, I don't think you guys are involved in any cover-up; that's not what I'm getting at. I just think we might be missing something here because it's a -- it's only a motor. A motor can be this big, but it can also be as big as the table that Councilwoman Clark's sitting at, and it can be worth $12,000, you know, because it's specially made for that use. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Yeah. Anything that is stolen or missing is reported, and we can put a list together and provide it to 1468 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT you for the past year, perhaps, if that would be adequate.
Thank you. That would be excellent. Thank you. He wants to piggyback on this (indicating Councilman Rizzo).
Commissioner, I think there's a misconception on the oversight that the Procurement Department has with the operating departments. The operating departments spin it that if you have a job on the 8200 of Provident Road and you need 10 feet of pipe and you need x-numbers of fittings, then you send a req. to the Procurement Department. Would you explain -- said to Councilman Mariano isn't entirely true. You have open-end deals with supply houses. If you need material, you go to the supply house, pick up the material, because the Procurement Department already has an arrangement with that supply house. If you need a motor, you don't have to send a req. to get a motor in an emergency, you go to the supply house and pick it 1469 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT up, right? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: There are various kinds of purchase orders that we get, purchase requisitions that we get. There are requirements, contracts whereby we can go in and go to a supplier and pick something up. There are then other contracts where we actually have inventory built up at our sites.
Right. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: At all the treatment sites, as well as our central headquarters 29th and Cambria.
But my point being is that sometimes the operating departments make it sound like your ability to get material is so restrictive that if you need ten of something, that you have a contract with a particular ABC supply house, you can go to ABC Supply House and get material. It isn't -- you are -- you do have flexibility in your purchasing ability. So if there was a -- if someone wanted to get a motor through the system, you stock x-numbers of widgets 1470 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT at your place, right? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Right.
But also, your supervisors have the ability to bypass that totally and go to a supply house and get a couple thousand dollars worth of material. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: No. 9
No? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: There is oversight from it. There's a manager of the facility that --
I said "a supervisor," meaning a management person can go and buy thousands of dollars worth of merchandise without going to the Procurement Department. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: If the contract is in place.
Yeah. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: If the contract is in place, they can order the parts from the --
Right. And it doesn't have to be a specific part; that contract gives the Water Department the ability to go get 1471 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT anything from a widget to a pipe to a Stillson wrench. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: In some cases, for instance, we have a contract with a plumbing supply house. It may have a lot of flexibility, as it were.
Right. I just -- because sometimes I think the Procurement Department gets unjust -- they get beat up to the point where it sounds like you guys can't breathe without going through the Procurement Department. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: The Procurement Department has been very, very supportive. In the last five or six years, we've seen a turnaround in the Procurement Department in our ability to obtain parts when we need them, to keep our operations moving has been absolutely superb.
On the other side of the coin, there are some folks that say that it's too flexible. I don't know whether it is or not, but I just wanted to -- COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: As long as we have some internal controls and we keep track 1472 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT of it, I think that's the flexibility you're going to have to have in an operation that is running 4 hours a day and supplying the type of service that 5 we do. 6
Thank you, 7 Commissioner. Thank you, Councilman Mariano and 8 Madame Chair for the. . . 9 (Councilwoman Verna takes over the 10 Chair.) 11
Thank you. 15 The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter. 16
Commissioner or Mr. 17 Nadol, back in the discussion of the automatic 18 meter-reading program, you mentioned that you are 19 ahead of schedule, for which I commend you. 20 I just wanted to get a little sense of 21 what the schedule was and what areas will you be 22 working in at different points in time. 23 If I were to go to a meeting and if my 24 constituents said, Well, when will they be in Wynnefield, or when will they be in Roxborough, or 1473 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT when will they be in Overbrook or East Falls? What's the schedule of activity? I assume you're working in different parts of City? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Right. The total time period that the contractor has to install 90 percent or more of these meters is a two-year period.
Right. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: They started in South Philadelphia, they've been working up to West Philadelphia near the Fishtown area. And as they move up, you know, they're building up their own schedule. Now, specifically, if they have -- I'm not sure if they have a schedule for a full two-year period. I'll ask Mike Nadol to answer and see if he has any idea of how the schedule is (inaudible).
Well, maybe if they have a six- to nine-month kind of schedule -- I raise this in the context of the -- for instance, the City's alley light program was a three-year program. And the general concept was that the crews would be out in different parts of the 1474 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT City. But the Streets Department was able tell us, with some sense of accuracy -- although they got the blizzard of '96 right in the middle of their program -- but they could tell us they had -- they cut up the City into areas, very broad areas. And so they would tell us, for instance they expect to be in Areas 23, 24, and during 11 the summer of '96. Or we expect to be in certain 12 areas in the fall of '97. And people understand 13 that, you know, weather and all the other things 14 that happen out there can impact the schedule. 15 But if you could -- if they could tell 16 us where they expect to be in six-month intervals, 17 that would be helpful. And I mean, you know, we 18 can share with our constituent when they 19 anticipate this kind of work happening. 20 I assume people are rather excited 21 about the prospect of it going on, but they'd also 22 like to know when. 23 COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: In fact, 24 they do develop a schedule for a six-month period 25 of time. 1475 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT
Okay. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: And the way it is broken up, it is broken up by what they called "control days." Control days are days at which the regular meter-reader would go into that particular area to read the meters. And that's how they're breaking it out. And as soon as the control date gets saturated, we then start reading actually automatically on it. So we can provide you with a schedule, let's say, for the next six-month period. If you'd like.
That would be fine. DEPT. COMM. NADOL: We have been notifying each district's Councilmember, as we've moved into an area where their constituents would be affected. As the program has just begun to roll out --
I will assume that since I've not been notified, there's nothing going on. DEPT. COMM. NADOL: (Inaudible/off mike.) 1476 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT
Okay, it's no 3 problem. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: I believe because I live in your district, we probably might be the last ones to get it.
I understand that philosophy. DEPT. COMM. NADOL: And I live in Councilwoman Verna's district, most of which has already been completed.
What a coincidence. (Laughter.) DEPT. COMM. NADOL: In the Center City portion in which I live, I've been advised it will probable be the last to be done because of the traffic issues in Center City.
Right, I understand. DEPT. COMM. NADOL: Denise, I believe, does have hers, however.
Okay. No problem. All right, whatever you can get us. And if it can be periodically updated, you know, we'll share it with people as we're out and about and as we go 1477 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT into meetings and that kind of stuff. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: We'll make sure you get it.
Okay. DEPT. COMM. NADOL: In fact, I should note if there are particular community meetings where there might be a strong interest in this program, the vendor and some of our staff as well would be available to make a brief presentation.
On that subject, how many more meters have to be changed? I know you've said how many have been installed. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: About approximately 100,000 will be installed by the end of this week. We had estimated about 487,000 meters altogether when we first came to you for your permission to go into this program. As we go into these properties, we find that in some cases, the properties have already been demolished and we don't install them. So the number's flexible, but it's going to be in the 450,000-plus range. So there's 1478 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT another 350,000 or more yet to be installed.
Thank you. Commissioner, I note on -55 of your budget detail that you're requesting an additional $1.3 million for professional services for FY '99. Can you tell us what those professional services are? DEPT. COMM. NADOL: That was what page, 55?
51-55. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: I'm sorry. Would you please repeat the question.
Yes. You're requesting an additional $1.3 million for professional services for FY '99. Can you tell us what the services are. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: That's the automatic meter-reading. I believe those are the monies that will be paid to the contractor for maintenance and reading. DEPT. COMM. NADOL: Correct. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: For maintenance of the system and the reading of the meters.
They've already 1479 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT started to read the meters that are installed? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: They have already started to read the meters in a couple of control days right now. DEPT. COMM. NADOL: The approach of the project, as the Commissioner indicated, the City is divided up into control days. There are actually 60 residential control days that reflect those groups of meter-reading routes that all get read on the same day. Our approach to the project is to saturate an area, install at least 80 percent and hopefully more of the homes in that area, and then begin immediately to read it and provide the benefits of the accurate monthly reads even while we're still working to install elsewhere in the City. So as a result of this approach, we've been able to begin meter-reading in five or six control days already which represents tens of thousands of our customers. By the time the new fiscal year starts, we'll be probably, you know, well into the tens and possibly over 100,000 customers being read. And as the year progresses, 1480 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT that year will continue to roll up. So this particular line item reflects the per-data fee that we pay to the contractor for operation of the vans, maintenance of the meters, the eventual battery change-out, and all the other associated costs that are built into the ongoing operations and maintenance component of the contract.
Now, would the regular water meter readers be reading the meters, the automatic readers? DEPT. COMM. NADOL: No. 14
It would be -- who is doing that, the contractors? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: There are only about three to four vans that are going to be driven by just those three folks, and they'll be collecting all of the meter readings automatically on that. And those will be the contractor's people that are going to be doing that. All of the meter readers that we have right now, except those that, you know, we lose 1481 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT through attrition, will be retrained and reassigned in various other job duties within the Water Department as well as in the Water Revenue Bureau. And by the way, Denise Garrett informs me that we are now reading about 50,000 of these automatic meters right now, at this point.
Wonderful. I know because we got a couple calls, and there were people who were saying, Oh my God, they installed this new meter and I got this outlandish bill. And, of course, we call your office. And invariably, someone would go out and check, and it would be like half the amount that they were billed for. I think -- however, despite that, I think this program will be a huge success. And, Commissioner, I really want to publicly thank you and your staff for always being available to answer the concerns, complaints, and requests of my constituents. Your office is a rarity in the City government, believe me, and I wanted to thank you for all your assistance. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Thank you very much. I'll make sure that our staff hears 1482 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT about that.
Commissioner, on that note, you should leave right now. (Laughter.)
I think Councilman Rizzo had his light on to be recognized.
Thank you, Madame Chair. Commissioner, earlier, when the AMR Program was rolled out to City Council, there was an agreement. In any big project, there are problems where water meters that are installed will leak. There was a suggestion that we either in the proximity of the meter or leave with the computer a waterproof tag that in the event a water leak develops after the installation, that there is a hot line to call. Especially for our senior citizens, I'd like to say that the Water Department is an easy department to communicate with through the regular 1483 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT customer service process. But there's times when it's not. So I'm hoping that the suggestion that we put a tag on the meter or leave a card with the customer in the event that a problem would develop. DEPT. COMM. NADOL: Yes. We heard that suggestion loud and clear during the approval process for this project and did incorporate your suggestion. It's actually in the form of a sticker, which is attached to the device above where any leaks could spill onto it. But we did incorporate that.
There's nothing that creates more of a panic than you come home a few hours after a meter was installed and you find water running out of that location. Just a curiosity question. Are there any installations where the technology, because it's in a sub basement or not able to communicate to the van, have you run into any snags where the equipment cannot communicate for a reading? DEPT. COMM. NADOL: There have been a 1484 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT small number of cases where the devices have not provided a reading. It's really a nominal percentage of the total installation base. In some cases, it was a function of, you know a rare defect or an improper installation. In some cases, the meters -- the manufacturer's do make a product that is -- a normal AMR device is attached directly to the meter. They make another product, called "a remote," which can be affixed at a higher location and connected by a wire to the meter. And that's available for many of those cases. So far, we have not run into a house where those kinds of physical problems were insurmountable. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: I'd like to add one more thing is that right now the read, the correct rate is 99.7 percent approximately. In other words, 99.7 percent of the times, we get the reading.
That's as good as the needle exchange program. (Laughter.) 1485 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT
The question is that -- I have had calls from various people that have been changed over to AMR for their gas service, and they have had some nightmarish problems with the first few readings that occurred. They were just, like Councilwoman Verna said, totally -- they were obviously not correct readings. How are you going to deal with a customer that calls Denise -- when a customer calls and says, Hey, this bill's not right, who do we have? Are we going to use our remaining meter-reader force to go back and do an actual read or will we reread electronically? At what point will a premise visit be required? DEPT. COMM. GARRETT: I'm Denise Garrett, Chief of the Water Revenue Bureau. That's spelled G-A-R-R-E-T-T. Councilman Rizzo, we actually have a multi-step process. After the installation, on our first read, the vendor has parameters built in to determine if this read is acceptable based on the installation and the information they've been given historically about the account. 1486 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT If it's not, they go out to verify to make sure that their installation is correct, and they also make sure that the device is functioning properly. This is before they transmit the data back to us. Once the data is transmitted back to us, if there's a discrepancy in the data in comparison to the account history, our Accounting Division has flags in the accounts to stop the bill from even going into the street, and we then will review the account to make sure that the installation is correct, that the billing history is correct before we send the bill out to the customer. If bills happen to get through and the customer does get a bill that's astronomical, then we will receive it into our Customer Service Department, we will send either a Water Department person out to look at the meter to inspect, or we will send one of our meter readers out to look at the meter, to inspect. We will get a subsequent reading off of that meter, we will do a comparative analysis. And it's only at that point that we then say that 1487 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT the bill is correct, after we've gone through various steps.
And let's say that two years into AMRs where the contractor is now out of the loop, I have a problem, I disagree there's a discrepancy in the account -- DEPT. COMM. GARRETT: The contractor is in the loop for years, Councilman. 10
The contractor will 11 go back even after an AMR has been installed to 12 double-check the reading? 13 DEPT. COMM. GARRETT: The contractor 14 has parameters that they have to meet in terms of 15 accuracy built into the contract. They have to 16 meet a certain accuracy percentage. 17 If they do not meet that, then they 18 themselves want to verify the data before they 19 transmit it to us. 20
Okay. I'm waiting for mine, so that's great to hear that this project rolled out as quickly and as well as it has. My final question, Commissioner, I believe it's in the form of a compliment here. 1488 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT And I haven't heard all of the details yet, but I understand -- because of my interest and other Members of City Council, the defective lateral program that you have, and program I'm not sure, you know, all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed, but I'm pleased to hear that the Administration has responded to Council and has negotiated with the State Department that regulates DER? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: DEP, the Department of Environmental Protection.
And has given some assistance. Are you able to discuss anything about that a little bit, a lot? 'Cause I know it's not a done deal yet. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: No, it's not a done deal yet, in fact, because of the lawsuit that was brought against the Department which we had a moratorium on enforcing the correction of those defective laterals. Since that time, we've been negotiating with the DEP to change the methodology by which we do the testing so we can identify the true cross connections which are, in federal government 1489 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT terminology, termed as "elicit connections," identify those and then correct them. We are at the point that I can probably tell you -- and this has not been signed off by DEP -- we hope to provide some grants to those properties where we find the true cross connection that is into the storm system, to provide the grants to correct those in the interest of improving the environment, cleaning up the streams. And this is something that was paramount.
These are grants, not loans? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: These would be grants for a true cross connection.
That's great. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Or a (unintelligible) that is connected to the storm.
Then it is -- then take my question as a compliment because it was a very, very serious problem, and I'm glad that your customers and my constituents are going to get some relief. 1490 BILL 980003, FY '99 OPERATING BUDGET, WATER DEPARTMENT COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: I think the Administration heard this Council very loud and clear, and I think we developed a program that's going to be satisfactory, but we have not concluded that with the Department of Environmental Protection at this point.
Commissioner, thank you very much. And, again, thank you for all your support. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Thank you.
The Committee of the Whole will stand in recess until tomorrow morning, at 9 a.m. Thank you. (Adjourned at 5:04 p.m.) - - - 1491 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, February 24, 1998 were reported and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: RECESSED COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE BILL NO. 98003 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, RPR