I'm sorry, say that -- I didn't quite hear you, Mr. President.
I thought I was clear. Did anybody else not hear what I was saying?
There are deaf and blind students that attend Lankenau, right?
And they're going to go to Saul, right? It is the same line of questioning; I'm following up with -- in regards to Member Brooks. What has the preliminary work has been done for that seamless transition of deaf and blind students for Saul?
Number one, we've identified staff, that I will not speak to on the record yet, who will assist me specifically in that transition. Number two, we built into the calendar a full year of planning so that there are no 12 hiccups, missteps, or faux pas, if you will. And No. 3, we've been very intentional for the 17, former current 17, schools that are on 16 the current list of recommendations 17 to President Streater and his board. 18 We've mapped out what the 19 student population looks like. The 20 fact that we're not talking about it on the record, we don't want to get ahead of the process.
But I wasn't expecting regarding that conversation with that particular school in terms of children with disabilities. Briefly wrap up for us when you get a chance, Member Brooks?
Yes. Just -- because you may -- so when you talk about the -- there is a plan. So are we taking consideration, and I'm thinking about some of the districts that -- some of the -- my council colleagues who have multiple elementary schools that are closing in their district that may have special needs support or special Ed support, and some kind of plan. Are we accounting for where these children are going, so it is not an overflow or influx of certain children with various disabilities in the same classroom? Or like, is it going to be a clear transition path, like, that not to influx certain schools with additional children with special needs support that we aren't able to accommodate. And I'm thinking about children with neuro divergent issues and so many -- behavior issues and all that. I'm like, is there any consideration taken, especially, I want to think about in like, I think the 5th and the 7th District where it is like a high influx of young people, young children in those schools that will be transitioning and moving around. And do we have a plan for that? Because the staffing ratio and the class size and the staffing support is very key. And some of those children need to have the -- they don't work well with transitions. So what is it -- so it can't be an afterthought. That is what I'm saying. It can't be an afterthought when we're moving multiple kids into the same class without the adequate support. And I just don't want us to be moving quickly and then our kids will be lost and stuck.
Yes, ma'am. Your point is well taken, and you're absolutely correct. Whether it is children with neuro divergent issues, specific language -- specific learning disabled, or children with mobility issues, we are thoughtfully working through how to make sure that balls do not get dropped with children. And in addition to the learning network offices, the office that reports out of my office, has all of those issues related to specific -- specifically related to students with disabilities. We have an eye toward children who qualify for English language learner status. And we're looking in communities that are -- have very high concentrations of poverty, how to have that extra touch and not just leave things to chance for any of our -- any of our children.
Thank you very much. Chair recognizes Councilmember Squilla. I'm going to take a moment of personal privilege just to adjust one small part of public comment. So Member Squilla, you go ahead and you have some constituents that are going to be a part of your line of questioning. And so, Member Streater -- Mr. President, and school Superintendent Watlington, could you all -- ask your questions first and then we'll have State Representative Elizabeth Fiedler to come sit on the side of the dais with her students.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President. And my questions are, and I first want to thank you for your willingness to meet with the State Rep Fiedler, myself, and Senator Saval's office on the concerns of Southwark and what it means. We have students that are here today; I believe they were sitting upstairs, oh, they are here in the back now. And hearing there's concerns, and I want to thank you for also listening and hearing there is concerns, but please give them a round of applause for coming to join us here. They have shared with us the challenges of going to school, trying to learn in the school that is probably one of the best examples of how diversity can build a great way to educate individuals. And have to feel like they have to hold in going to the bathroom until they get home, because of some of the challenges that were mentioned earlier in our hearing and testimony. And I want to thank you for your willingness to look at reassessing these schools. And I know that President Streater and Dr. Watlington, you agreed to look at the plumbing that really wasn't part of the original assessment to really show what we can do immediately to address that. And we all know that temporary bathrooms is not the answer to have that. It is great that that is a consideration in the meantime. But the other issue is, beside the agreement to reassess the criteria of what Southwark -- the needs are and need based to do, that the modernization plan that comes to 2020 -- 2032 and 33. The school is in immediate need of the bathrooms, but also the remediation and the removal of the rodent issue that is in the school. When you have young kids in the classrooms that feel uncomfortable whether eating in the cafeteria or in a classroom doing reading time, and they see a mouse or somebody run -- somebody -- something run by them it is really hard to learn. And, you know, I want to give the principal, the teachers, the staff, and everybody at that school for really doing an outstanding job to put up with these challenges and yet still be able to succeed academically. And these kids that have been -- they're brilliant minds, and they're out there now advocating for cleaner places and cleaner bathrooms and active working bathrooms so that they could learn better. What are we doing in the immediate -- and we talked about the summer coming up. What are we doing in the immediate to address the plumbing issues, the bathrooms that go down? I know that it is easier to get new fixtures and toilets, urinals, and doors for these bathrooms. And will this be completed before the beginning of the next school year?
Two things -- thank you, Councilmember Squilla. I'll say two things, one, we are exploring how quickly we can get significant improvements made at Southwark, in particular through the capital improvement budget ahead of that timeline with the facilities plan. Two, the team is looking at that 2031, 32 date to see what the options for moving that up are. And three, there is a state grant afoot related to how to do this. With the capital improvement plan, we put ourselves on an expedited timeline, not to wait for the third week in May, but somewhere -- sometime within the next week to days, we 10 should be able to have a more -- a clear answer in terms of a timeline about how soon that can be done and whether it can be -- get -- done over or by the summer. The last time I was at Southwark, I believe with principal Luka, I thought Southwark was interesting, and that you have those two big restrooms in the basement. So it is a unique, interesting design. The team has gone in and gone underground to flush out some things. But, you know, when you've got old infrastructure, you flush out one thing, you don't know what you're going to find next. And even when you clean those places really well, when you ring a thing that is just kind of stuck in the floor, you got to rip that stuff out, just like a very old house and just redo it. Please know that we will do everything we can to expedite those problems as quickly as we can. And we'll give you a more definitive timeline. I don't want to sit here and give you an artificial deadline that we've not been able to confirm that we absolutely can do it just yet. But we're moving as quick as we can. I promise you we'll follow up.
And I know you've committed to working with an advisory committee --
-- set up with the school to discuss that. And hopefully by May 20th, 22nd, there is an assessment valuation done that you had said. But also, like this summer, it is really important, and I know that we have talked, and most likely now, there is not going to be any activity within the school to do like a really full cleaning. Clean that school from top to bottom so that when the staffers come in there, they could start at a clean facility instead of trying to catch up on everything that is happening. I know you put a new fire alarm system in there, some electrical work that is going on. But these challenges that the students face, and we all agree, and nobody expects a student to have to go through these things while they're learning. So this also comes from deferred maintenance and challenges that we put off in the past. And so we want to make sure when we're talking about modernization, some of that questions that this is a modernization, this is --
-- making the school functional, right? And I know Councilmember O'Rourke, Councilmember Landau, myself along with other Councilmembers are down there with State Rep Fiedler and Senator Saval's office, so this is a united push. And we want to help, like, we're not here just to throw blame and do it, but we want to help, whether the resources, and I know rep Fiedler is going to have some -- a couple things to say. But I think it is really important to know that as they, as they advocate for this, and as the students, the teachers, the parents advocate, the frustration level is so high. So we have to -- we have to expect that when things don't go right and we don't meet these things, we have really nothing to hold the school district to, because we don't have any dates of when these are going to be done. Not yet. But we want to make sure that they have clear signals of what's going to happen from now until the next school year, and then clear signals of what is going to happen as far as modernization.
So I just want to ask one quick question before we bring somebody else on and it is about Hackett. There is just a new decision that came out on Hackett; creating Hackett from K-5 going to K-8. This decision was just proposed Monday, and I understand it is going to be voted on on Thursday. You know, I think the reaction is, is it good or bad or indifferent? There are challenges. We don't know what the plan is. We don't know -- the facility is already full. We have a lot of classrooms that take care of people with different abilities. And we want to make sure that the school could handle this change and the challenges that go along with that. But without a plan, just an announcement without a plan, we're getting inundated with concerns. And we need to make sure that the district and the board understand that and really have to be able to give that plan. You announced it on Monday, possibly voting on the ability to do these things on Thursday, but nobody has any idea of how that would play out.
Let me just -- I want to make sure that we didn't get something wrong. You wanted -- you were supportive, you wanted us -- wanted us to make some modifications relative to Moffett that related to this? Is --
I think this was part of the desire not to have Moffett as a middle school. Did we get that part?
So as you correct something, you create another issue, right?
And as you create another issue, it may be a solution, but nobody knows what the plan is. Like you fix the one thing, but by fixing one thing and making something else, and nobody understands the process, that is a challenge. So if we could see if what that full plan is; is there money being put into Hackett? Is there going to be an extension? Is there going to -- how are they going to use the rooms that are currently used?
I want to make sure that you get an answer. If you allow me to bring either Deputy Superintendent Hill or Senior Advisor Landau to the desk, I would -- I would like to them to have at least 45 seconds to just give them a quick high-level answer to that.
A quick update, and then maybe a meeting or an understanding of a -- to -- so we could share that with our constituents that, you know, when I had -- get 50, 60 emails overnight, and we want to be able to at least give them an answer. I could say I could ask the school district, but that is not a good answer.
And for the record, that is the Appropriations Chairman for City Council.
Excuse me. We have a point of information. Member Lozada?
Councilmember Squilla, I just want to -- point of information. The Hackett, Moffett, Ludlow, conversation kind of all was going all together with the families and parents of all three of those schools. And so I know -- I make -- I want to make sure that I put that on the record because I don't -- I don't want people to think that the school district made that decision overnight on their own. It was a conversation that we have had with community parents of the three schools, because I think all three of them were impacted by the original recommendation that they made. So I just wanted to put that on the record.
Good afternoon. Claire Landau, senior advisor for Strategic Planning. Thank you for the question, Councilmember Squilla. This is, as you had said, a result of the change in the recommendation regarding Hackett and Moffett. Originally, the recommendation was to merge the catchments of the two schools so that students in the two -- in both schools would go to the Hackett building for K-4, and then Moffett for 5-8. Of course, we had heard strong concern from the Moffett community, but I think as you've seen and had seen, we had received a lot of strong support from the Hackett community. And I think the outreach is in part in, you know, the concern in a change. The recommendation, though, will mean that Hackett will grow to become K-8. We have taken the funding that would have gone for the Moffett, not -- for some portions of the Moffett facilities upgrade to facilitate its transition to a middle school. And re-allocated that to Hackett so that the Hackett facility will have the upgrades necessary to make those changes. And we will certainly be coming out to the community to have meetings and to speak with them about how this will work. It will be happening in partnership with the community. So we'll have a planning year, and then it will grow one year at a time. So it'll be a very slow phase-in that we'll do with the community. Certainly, with you -- in partnership with you --
Would this be done -- would this be done before the vote?
-- so the students -- so the people understand what the plan is, because that is part of the challenge. The plan was just released on Monday and the voting Thursday, and nobody knows. I didn't even know that the funding was being switched from Moffett to Hackett.
In full transparency, again, I think whenever there is a resolution that goes before the board things aren't going to instantaneously happen, right? There is some thought to the ability --
I wanted to put a little more meat on the bone if I could.
-- Squilla is referring to -- I'm going to let you respond. Because we deal with this on a legislative process as well. Like, we'll introduce a bill and then there is a hearing, and then we'll go through the legislative process of getting feedback and so forth and decide if we're going to vote on the initiative or not. So I'm sure you were going into that same direction, meaning just because it is introduced doesn't mean -- go ahead, sir.
Yes. So there is a resolution that gives direction from the board to the district, not just to do the plan, but that for there to be schedules and connections with proposed closures, consolidations, relocations, mergers, reconfigurations, openings, and name changes to provide ample time for what needs to happen. So I think there is -- I think -- I understand there is a feeling of we have to, you know, kind of get what we need to get in before this -- the vote before the resolution. But it -- the way this is designed is to really try to lean on the district by way of the board to ensure that these things are thought of before we -- before we move down the -- down the road. And I'm going to be honest about something else too, the Clayton Center is half the size it should be. So Senior Advisor Landau is the one who is the principal, I guess, I'm going to say implementor, around Accelerate Philly. So the longer that we have her, kind of, do this -- which is fine, we -- her ability to focus on student achievement through Accelerate Philly is fall -- so I think one of the tensions that I think as the Board President I feel comfortable saying here is, I think if we have the staff, the time and resources to come up with contingency plans for six or seven, eight iterations of a plan, we would have done it. But I think we're the type of board -- the school district where unfortunately we have to have planning years. And the superintendent needs a direction from the board that before I marshal all of these resources, I need to know what direction I'm going in, in the event that the Board of Education or there is -- or whoever else is unwilling to do it. And I think that is the -- that is the elephant in the room 5 that, you know, I'm not happy to talk about because it is a huge weakness of the school district. We've seen it in other ways, right? You know, we'll say, “Hey, we'll work on it, but where are the plans? Where are the plans?” But some of the same people, Dr. Oz -- Chief Superintendent, Oz Hill, has like 60,000 hats on his head right now, right? So often when you ask Dr. Watlington or the staff to do something, they have to, kind of, put aside the work that has to keep going as the mount of the car continues to go a million miles down the field. The best thing that we -- that I could do with this resolution, as the Board President and the board, if it was to approve it, was to put language in it that dictates the type of things that you've raised, that others have raised, to ensure that Dr. Watlington, as we continue on what is in the document, and it says it is “a living plan” is implemented with fidelity. Dr. Watlington has done it with Accelerate Philly, he has done it with other techniques. So I do have the faith and confidence that Dr. Watlington posts a vote on a resolution that triggers a process for things that are yet to occur, will be able to think this thing through.
I -- and I have faith in Dr. Watlington and the board and, and everybody in the process. It is just when a change happens and nobody knows it, then they see a vote on it, they see that it -- they don't know. And they see that it wasn't done, and they didn't take their input into consideration, right? So it is already voted on, it is already done, and we can say what we want. I mean, people don't believe politicians, to begin with, right? So we tell them things and you're telling them things for a specific reason, right? Just to get past a certain point. But I could say, “Yeah, we voted on it, but we're going to work with you, and we'll change it later.” It just doesn't sit well. I trust you, and I believe you're going to do the right thing, but it still -- this challenge is that we need to make sure that the people have the input in the process. They don't have to agree with the final result. And they don't have to agree with what you would finally decide, but they should be part of that process.
So I'm going to take a moment of personal privilege and ask for State Representative Elizabeth Fiedler to come to the podium. And whatever guest you want to bring with you, Elizabeth Fiedler. It is going to just be yourself?
It is actually the students I have who are speaking; is that okay?
All right. So if the three students could please come up. I'll just say briefly, I'm State Rep Elizabeth Fiedler. I would like to thank City Council. I feel a bit like I've been summoned to the principal's office, hearing my name, a bit of nerves. But thank you, Council President Johnson. Thank you so much to Councilman Squilla and to every member of City Council who has heard what these students have had to say about the building conditions in their school. And they are here today just to make their voices heard. So thank you so much for giving them a warm welcome in Philadelphia City Hall.
Hello. My name is Valerie Flores, and I'm a 7th grader at Southwark. I'm here today because of the conditions of our school bathrooms; they suck. Next year will be my last year there, and I have not seen much changes in the seven years I have been there. I'm not going to lie, I like the school teachers, they're nice, some classmates are cool. But what I don't -- what I don't like is that me and my school have to practically beg for better bathrooms. Before I even got here, my classmates even said, “Tell them to fix our bathrooms.” I shouldn't be here asking for -- you know, I should be here asking for more things on the school playground or things for the blacktop. But instead, I am here asking for decent bathrooms; bathrooms. I seriously have to go out of school and go all the way here for decent bathrooms. How would you feel if every day you had to worry about the toilet flooding? Having to ask a friend to keep the door closed for you because the doors won't lock? A bathroom that smells repulsive. Worrying there isn't a working soap dispenser. Like I've already said, I should have to be asking for this. You said before the school is overpopulated, so please use those funds to fix our bathrooms. I'm still upset that some things that are going to fix our school are going to come in 2032. At the -- a while ago, we had like a faculty meeting at Southwark and there was a mother with a 4-year-old dog -- with a 4-year-old kid, and they said their kid would be in my grade by the time that year comes. I have a petition that 300 students signed. Who can I give this to?
Thank you. Just say your name and please begin your testimony.
Hi. My name is Aurora and I'm a Southwark student. We, students, should be learning, not searching for a clean bathroom, nor fearing insects. I love my school; I enjoy the diversity and the activities. However, today I came to talk about a problem we have been facing; the restrooms and the insects. In one occasion, the drain became clogged and it began to let out dirty water and that section of the restroom flooded. Can you imagine what it is like to have to walk on water fearing that your shoes might get dirty, or that you might fall into the water filled with waste and bacteria? Now imagine how difficult it must be for the little children. No child should ever have to go through that. But you know what? We didn't even have to imagine it because we lived it. On another occasion, the cockroaches weren't just in the bathrooms, but also in the classrooms. To the point my classmates had to lift their feet up because a cockroach was in the classroom and was right underneath them. Today we bring together our small voices to be heard and to bring a great change into our school. Thank you.
Hi. My name is Olivia Quaresma and I'm in 5th grade. I love so many things about Southwark; our diversity, the Spanish Immersion Program, my classes, my teachers, and of course my friends. Ironically, Southwark has a really big problem and it is urgent. It has been going on for a while now. There is literal sewage coming up from the floors. We can't cover up the lack of soap, lack of paper towels, broken stall doors, the awful smell, or the amount of lost class time it takes for us to walk around the school just looking for a place to pee. Some of us choose to wait until we get home to use the bathroom. This isn't fair, and it isn't right. The pipes need to be fixed so water sewage doesn't come up from the floors. Please get us doors. Get us soap. I want you to understand that this is really serious. You want us to have good attendance, to do well on our tests, but we also need basic things like clean and working bathrooms that we don't have to walk around up and down the stairs to find. We need a solution for now, not in 2032. Thank you for your time.
You-all aren't asking these kids no questions, are you-all? But we thank you for your leadership. Thank you for being here, for speaking truth to power. Thank you very much. Chair recognizes Councilmember Isaiah -- no, I'm sorry. She pressed the button. It is Lozada, then Isaiah Thomas, then Councilmember Young. Then we are officially out of that first round.
13 Thank you, Council President. Good 14 afternoon. Thank you for being with 15 us this afternoon. At first -- 16 before I begin, I want to shout out 17 Claire Landau and Colonel Oz Hill 18 for their work through the 19 facilities plan and your consistent 20 communication with the parents of 21 all of the schools that were on the 22 closure list in the 7th Council 23 District. 24 But very specifically the Moffett parents who were very, very, very engaged, asked a lot of questions, and really showed up for their children and their community. So thank you very much for your work and for your patience with them. I just have a few questions, and my questions are really based on some of the things that I heard this morning. I guess my first question is, has the -- I understand that you guys are new, and you weren't there when the COVID relief dollars came in and had maybe very little decision making in how it was spent. But when you all arrived and when you were considering -- Dr. Watlington, I guess you, when you were considering the position, President Streater, when you were considering becoming a part of the board. Did anyone ask for, or has the school district done an independent audit of your expenditures? And if so, can you speak to what that audit says? Can you share that audit with Council? And if not, why?
We have an annual audit of all district expenditures. We do annual audits of school budgets as well. I can tell you that we've had clean audits with no opinions -- modified opinions, which is a good thing. And I believe we post some feedback relative to those -- to those audits every time we take them before the Board of Education annually. So those --
But it is an audit that is done internally, correct?
By virtue of audit, it means someone else comes in to look at the books, because we wouldn't want -- we would not want that to be an internal, although the board also has an internal audit function as well. So we have got a dual system going there. We can send, for the record, when those was publicly shared, because we do it in open session. It is a --- it is a public review of the audit annually. And we'll be sure to share that for the record.
I'll ask Chief Herbstman if he'll get that to the Council.
If you could share that, that would be awesome. Thank you.
We've actually had some commendations from the national auditing firms as well.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that. We talked -- we -- you mentioned earlier the -- the 20 10 vacant buildings that the school 11 district owns or has. Do we -- are 12 they still in your inventory or have 13 you already transitioned them in a 14 disposition process after the board 15 voted? 16
The 17 board passed the resolution that 18 triggered the process for the 19 superintendent to recommend 20 conveyances of those facilities to the city. That process is ongoing.
Why -- can you tell me why we -- why we didn't consider the sale of these properties? When I looked at -- when my staff did some research, there was an estimated value of $80 million for those parcels that 5 could have created an ongoing tax 6 revenue that could have been paid to 7 the -- to the -- to the city, and 8 then in return to the school 9 district. Why did we not consider 10 the sale of those properties through 11 an RFP process? 12
There 13 is no RFP process. It is -- it is 14 recommendations contingent upon 15 Dr. Watlington doing his due 16 diligence. So right now, nothing 17 has been conveyed at this time. But 18 there is a resolution that directs 19 Dr. Watlington to do his due 20 diligence, which includes things that you just -- that you just mentioned as it relates to the, you know, the benefit to the district and other uses of that nature. So we're kind of premature in that space to -- as it relates to what's going to actually happen to them. But it is not just a clean convey. There are some things the board wanted to see first.
You guys have some vacant properties. It is -- they are -- they are not structures; they are just land. I know one is on Orkney and Dauphin, for instance, that doesn't look like it has moved anywhere. But we have had several people that have expressed interest in that parcel. Are there other spaces that don't have structures that the school district owns that you would consider to sell in order to reduce your deficit?
Staff doesn't have any additional updates on that at this time. But we're happy to take anything that you want us to look into for homework. But we don't have any new updates at this time -- any particular updates at this time.
Thank you. And then my last question is, President Streater, I know that majority leader asked you yesterday, she asked you today, and I recognize that you a -- you said you needed to go to the board. That is understandable, right? But would you support a motion to hold the vote in order for us to continue to have conversations in good faith and truly demonstrate that we are working in partnership? I asked that question not to put you on the spot, because that is not what I want to do. I asked that question because one of the first questions I was asked after this morning's session was, you know, the administration, the legislative body, and the school district all look like you're fighting against each other. This doesn't look like you are our partners here. And the word partnership and collaboration has been said multiple times throughout the day yesterday as well as in today. And I really believe that we are here to work together in the best interest of the children and families and the communities that we represent. I believe that you guys are there to do good as well, right? I believe your hearts are in the right place. But what people are seeing as they are watching us on 64 or in this space, it looks like we are at odds with each other. And my explanation to them was, this is politics, right? There has to be a give and take. This is a negotiation process. We don't really -- we don't hate each other. No one is angry with anybody in here. Are we frustrated? Absolutely. I think all of us are in our place to be frustrated, but I think that we have to demonstrate that we want to continue to negotiate in good faith. And you as the leader would have to make that decision, right? Would you support the motion to hold the vote tomorrow?
What I -- what I can say is, I heard things today that I didn't hear yesterday. I think it helps that I was able to put a suit on today and know I was going to be here today to kind of absorb, and I'm still absorbing. What I can say is I'm willing to do anything to -- for this to be as productive as it can be, while also protecting the interests and the fiduciary role that we have under law as a School District of Philadelphia and the Board of Education. So I hope that gives you some color to where I am right now. But that being said, I respect my board too much to -- in this space with something that is this raw to say that I will support. Because that can also feel like I'm pulling them along, and they don't want to be pulled along as well. I just respect my board too much. But what I can say is --
And I understand that. I don't want to -- I don't mean to cut you off, I understand that. But I think as the leader, Council President sometimes has to make decisions based on his conversations for this body. And sometimes he doesn't have the opportunity to come to each or to all of us. And while I understand you respect them and your process. You are the leader.
And 7 so we are looking to you to have to 8 make that decision in good faith, 9 right? I think that it is -- it is 10 important to those who are looking 11 in to understand that while Council 12 make -- makes the decision, the 13 final decision on this budget, 14 people have to understand that their 15 government is working for them and 16 in the best interest of them. And 17 that we're not making rash decisions. That we're not making decisions being angry or frustrated with anybody. And I think people looking in right now, see and hear frustration, they see and hear, or they think there is this misunderstanding or lack of communication. And I think as the leader, you have to -- we're looking to you and asking you to make that decision of supporting a motion that not just this legislative body is asking you for, but the public is asking you for. The families, the students are asking you for. Your staff, right? The staff of the school district is asking for you to consider.
The best I can do is I'm happy to consider, but I'm sorry, I -- in good faith, I cannot get too far ahead of my board. And there are things that we have to weigh as well. But I think we do have time. I -- we're -- the vote isn't happening right now. And I -- what I can guarantee is that I will convene my board today or soon thereafter. And we won't find out that at the day of the meeting or at the meeting. But I just have -- there is so much that we have to weigh. There's so much that we have to weigh.
I will say this just in follow up with Member Lozada then I'm going to turn over to Member Isaiah Thomas. The Mayor, who is the CEO of the City of Philadelphia, really came and gave a passionate speech as to why this partnership and this collaboration will be critically important in terms of this process, even moving forward. And there are some members and Council may say even, not moving forward, just to be quite frank with you in terms of what you are trying to accomplish. And so we understand you have a process, and we have a process, and then hopefully all of that is taken in the top -- in the -- in the context, even though you are an independent body. So -- but I hear you loud and clear. You're saying you have to check with your team and not want to jump out there too quick. So I -- we understand that. Anything else, Member Lozada?
Good afternoon, Council President. Good afternoon, Board President, Superintendent.
Member Thomas, do you mind doing it from up here?
Apologize. Good afternoon, and thank you Council President. I want to first start by saying thank you to you, Dr. Watlington, as well as you Board President Streater. For those who don't know, we meet on a monthly basis, and you all make yourself available to answer questions and to support the Education Committee. And we do appreciate the time you've spent with us in the past. I also want to take a moment to say thank you to my guy, Colonel Hill. Actually, Colonel Hill and Mike, if you guys both can come join us up here, because I'm going to ask you guys a couple questions. But I also just want to let you both know, because I work with you on a consistent basis, I appreciate you both as it relates to the work that is being done on finance as well as dealing with different operational issues as well. So Colonel Hill to you and your team, when I think about Fiesta Schools and all of the playgrounds that we've rebuilt in the City of Philadelphia and all the great work that has been done in the world of extracurricular activities and things like that, I truly appreciate it. So I wanted to start by saying thank you. Also want to say thank you to the Mayor for the Mayor's remarks earlier. The Mayor definitely showed that this is an issue that we all care about. I don't think anybody can argue there, and you've seen that within the mayor's passion. So with that being said, let me start by -- with the request of the Majority Leader Gilmore- Richardson. Majority Leader Gilmore-Richardson asked that the vote be delayed until May 20th. I'm wondering -- I don't know if there are any other school board members here, but what would you need to hear in order to be convinced that this Thursday is not the time to vote? I heard you say you heard some good stuff here today and I got some good stuff here, but I only have a little bit of time. So I want to try to dig into my magic trick of -- magic box of tricks and pull out the right thing that I think might and can convince you. So what are you weighing and what can be said today that can convince you that this vote needs to be delayed?
There are no other board members in the room right now, but what I can say is, the board is a very deliberative -- it is -- we're kind of designed to, kind of, be this way. I know it kind -- it is kind of annoying. We're not, like, not the quick pivots, you have to think about the quick pivots. And I have to honor that and I can't be up here, you know, making edicts or speaking on behalf of nine powerful --
We are -- we are trying to just convince you. So we want, like -- so this is the thing, when the Mayor comes and talks to me, or the Council President comes and talks to me, or my colleague come and talk to me, I can say, “Hey, Cali, I can tell you where I am, but I can't speak for the other members.” So none of us are asking you to speak for the other members. We're trying to convince you, the man that is in front of us right now. What can we say to you to convince you that this is not the right time? What would it that -- what it -- what would you need to hear?
I approach the role as being on the Board of Education as the president, as an attorney with their client. And sometimes you all are my client and don't know it when I'm in rooms that we all can't fit in. What I can do is I can tell you what the interests of my clients are, the Board of Education, who are my bosses, and those are the type of things that need to be considered.
All right. So that is a great comparison. So let us look at it as you are the lawyer, right?
The board members are the client, I want you to advise your clients to delay this process, right? And let me -- let me just say why. Let me just say why. I'm going to explain why. I'm going to tell you why, because you don't have the evidence to win the case. Let me tell you how I know you don't have the evidence, I'm going to just give you just a couple examples because I don't have a lot of time and I'm using your comparison. Wagner Middle School -- Wagner Middle School, I just said this to Mayor Parker, I've said it multiple times. Wagner Middle School is in my neighborhood. That is my neighborhood middle school. I'm not telling you to keep it open. I'm not telling you to close it. What I'm saying is this, Wagner Middle School, if closed, is supposed to have its students go to the neighborhood schools. One of the schools that you're asking the young people to go to is Ellwood Elementary School. I live -- when I look out my window from the top of my house, I could see Ellwood Elementary School. That is how close I live to Ellwood. And I know everybody don't know every neighborhood in the City of Philadelphia, but I can assure you East Oak Lane is one of the most active communities in the entire city. East Oak Lane has -- we're not going to get all that. So Ellwood right now, K-4 goes to the main building. When you get in fifth grade for Ellwood, you have to walk four blocks past Ellwood to the annex that we rent that we don't own. So if Ellwood right now can only hold K-4 and fifth and sixth has to go walk somewhere else, how can we make Ellwood K-8? Can you just answer that for me?
When you engage in good -- when you engage in good faith negotiations as an attorney, and if you want to play the role of attorney for the city -- for City Council, that is fine. You have to understand the interest of both parties, right? We have a $300 million deficit, $7 billion of either replacement or deferred costs. This is a resolution that doesn't close anything tomorrow or whenever it happens. This is a resolution that sets forth for process with a -- with a lot -- with an ongoing -- with mechanisms built into it, very thoughtful so that you can have multiple bites at the apple. That community can have multiple bites at the apple with the Board of Education will hold the superintendent accountable to implement with fidelity like we know he can. So again, those are the type of things you have to also kind of hit me with too, because --
Board President, you're absolutely right. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
Because for me -- for me -- you're -- you're on the -- you're -- you are not talking to me about the act of the thing that we're actually trying to solve for, right? And it is also about chronic underachievement and the ability to redistribute our resources in a way, understanding that no plan is ever going to be perfect. That no plan -- it doesn't matter. We take one school out, and we make this a fungible being kind of which is not what the board wants to do. There's always going to be concerns and things that are going to have to be worked out that will take time, that might take a planning year. So that is the things that we have to consider. And there are other things we have to consider. I'm not -- I'm not Boo Boo the Fool; I understand where we are. I understand where City Council is as well. But in good faith, I am unwilling today to tell you exactly what I am going to tell my board what to do because that is not how it works.
I recommend and we wait -- and we wait facts and we wait evidence.
So we are -- we are not -- and so do you believe that what I said about Ellwood is a fact? Or did I just make that up?
I believe it is factual, but again, you have to understand we are trying to solve for, I think, two different issues.
But Board President look, so can we just stick to the line of questioning?
It is a fact. But the point I'm trying to make is, even though it is a fact, I believe there are other ways that it could be addressed.
Don't you think we need to take some time to address it? So --
so me and you agree. Me and you -- just -- can I finish?
-- you not going to do it? Okay. Me and you agree that Ellwood is a problem in the plan, and I'm just asking you, I'm not even telling you your plan is bad. Let me take a couple steps back and offer some more compliments.
I just conceded that. I just conceded that, I said that no matter what plan we have, no -- it could be a plan that takes 30,000 years to create. There's always going to be tension and issues in the plan. Whether you put Ellwood and you put another school in there. That is the point I'm trying to make. The way this --
The way this resolution is designed is so that these things, irrespective of what the schools are, there will be a year or more to -- for this superintendent who is coming here, and I believe he has done it in other mechanisms and other ways to plan thoughtfully. And for the board to pivot as it has on leveling and as it has on other things. This board will pivot based upon actual things that we know will happen. So --
So to me, I have to take that into consideration because if we don't do this now, we could be sitting here 20, 30 years having a different conversation. So that -- so I hope you understand my client's perspective as well and understand where we're trying to head with this too. I'm not trying to be a hater here, but like, I think it is important that we understand what this is. And remember you said --
We do understand, and I'm not trying to say we don't understand. I'm identifying flaws in the plan --
Let me -- let me go back to compliments, right? I compliment you all for coming up with a plan that doesn't close any of our comprehensive neighborhood high schools. That is one of the most important parts of this plan. And it was one of the most difficult things you had to do. I was scared for Strawberry Mansion, I was scared for Overbrook, right? Oh, I'm sorry, Penn Treaty is the only one; only one. So I -- thank you, Councilmember Young. I'm not -- I'm not -- I'm not saying that the plan is completely bad, and I also recognize that at some point, someone is going to be unhappy. What I'm saying is this, right? The plan is here, it is up here and it looks good, but I've identified issues in the structure down here. I'm telling you to your face that Ellwood in your -- in your plan with Ellwood, it doesn't work. And I have more examples, but instead of listening to my example and say, “You know what, maybe we did get Ellwood wrong. Maybe we need to add some capital investment in order to do it.” You guys are basically saying, well, we'll figure that out later.
Mr. Chairman, may I jump in really quick and just say the plan does provide a $12 million investment into Ellwood. So it is in the plan, and we'll be sure that we get you that copy today. Second --
Dr. Watlington, we did 44 -- we did 43 million for Frankford. I'm telling you that Ellwood has no 18 space for fifth and sixth right now.
And you're adding seven through eight. With all due respect, right? How can 12 million do -- I've seen that. How can $12 million put us in a position to double the size of a school when we spend $43 million just on renovations at Frankford?
If you -- if you'll let me say these two things: one, we will absolutely receive that and take that as a homework assignment and report back. Second, I do want to come back to the 10,000-foot level and say to President Streater's point, here is the problem we're solving for at Wagner, because I don't want the public to get lost. Wagner has a capacity for 1030 students. Four years ago, there were 444 students. That number reduced in school year 22/23 to 366. The next year, the enrollment went down to 304 and the next year to 297. This year, the enrollment has gone down again to 294. We ought not to continue to operate as -- I think we can agree that we can't continue to operate schools with -- that are less than half filled. We are willing to go back and take an absolute look at your point. If $12 million is adequate to expand the capacity at Ellwood, we'll be glad to do that.
And if you listen to what I'm saying, Dr. Watlington, I'm not arguing with you one way or another on Wagner, what I'm trying to tell you, right? My neighbors, where I live on my block, that I'm a 100 percent sure that the capital investment for Ellwood doesn't work. It doesn't fit the plan. When Councilmember Squilla tells you, he just found out on Monday about this new version of the plan. We're -- we're not trying to go back and forth with you guys. What we're telling you is from the seat that we're sitting in, your timeline doesn't work for us. And you're telling us, we kind of got to stick with this timeline, and then in a couple weeks we're going to take a vote. And you guys are asking us to compartmentalize these different topics of discussion. And I think the problem is this, you can't have your cake and eat it too. It just doesn't work that way. So if you're telling us that we have to deal with this facilities plan, this is where we are, there will be no modifications. Just know that we're going to return that same energy. And the reality is most of us will agree we've had a good working relationship. We will -- I think most of us will also agree, we have the same -- we have a similar end goal as it relates to where we want to get to as it relates to the finish line. The problem we're having is the path to get there. And I think the difference between you guys and us is we're held accountable by a different group of people than you are. So certain things you guys could kind of take the hit and turn the other cheek. Whereas though we're not in the position to be able to do that.
So Mr. Chairman, by way of board President's and the board's resolution, President Streater and the board, through this resolution, directs the superintendent to follow processes that could indeed include some amendments and changes as we go along. That is the beauty of the resolution; it provides for some adjustments and changes. It is no 23 different than when you renovate an old house, and you establish a budget for $2,000. You get into the drywall and you found you've got some other issues, and you may have to increase that.
So I have to move on. I have to allow Councilmember Young. We have a lot of people here for public comment. The Ellwood example that I gave you, I have about four other examples just like that. I don't have time to go through each one of them. And again, I'm not saying the plan is completely bad. You've heard us talk about Lankenau. Lankenau is a non-starter, so I'm not going to keep going back and forth about that. But Lankenau is an opinion that is Councilmember Ahmad's opinion. It is my opinion. It is Councilmember Jones' opinion, it is Councilmember O'Rourke's opinion. That is an opinion, right? Your opinion is your way. My opinion is my way. Opinions are subjective. Ellwood is a fact. I'm telling you for a fact that the plan doesn't work for the people in the East Oak Lane community. And the feedback that I'm getting is not one that I can go take back to them people. So let me just move on because --
-- I'm going keep asking about this 5/20, is we're going to keep bringing it back up. We had -- let me close out by saying this, I'm going to send a letter and if members of Council want to sign on, great. If they don't, that is fine. I'm going to send a letter to every member of the school board. And the letter to every member of the school board will be a reflective of exactly what Councilmember Gilmore-Richardson's ask was today, because everybody is not here today. And we want each individual member of the school board to know that we're personally asking for you not to take this vote on Thursday. And we want to put it in writing. And we want members of the school board to know that if you do take the vote on Thursday and you do vote in a way that is not reflective of what, not just the city legislature is asking, but the state legislature, too. We had Rep Fiedler here today. We had Rep Cephas at the press conference the other day. We had Rep Khan at the press conference the other day. And the Mayor sat here and said, give Harrisburg the tools that they need to go get us more money. I talked to Harrisburg, at least the Philly delegation, you know what they need to get us more money? To scrap this facility plan. That is what they said to us. And if you don't believe that, you could ask them yourself. Now, when I say scrap, I don't mean get rid of it completely, but if you talk to the state legislators, they'll tell you Rep Cephas screamed and hollered about Overbrook Elementary School yesterday. She did. That was her own -- that was her own words. Rep Conn, no, I'm sorry, Rep Cephas screamed and hollered about Overbook. Yeah, Overbook. Rep Conn screamed and hollered about Lankenau.
Yes, I do. I do think that there are things in your plan that makes sense, right? But I think that there are other things -- I'll give you one for example, Building 15 going into Martin Luther King High 16 School. It is not the most popular 17 thing in my neighborhood, but that 18 is something that I can turn the 19 other cheek to. And I could even 20 entertain Wagner. I could entertain 21 it, but you can't entertain it with the plan that you have in place because it doesn't work for the community. And that is what I'm saying.
May I just say two things can be true at the same time and I'll defer respectfully to the Chairman. On the one hand, we absolutely receive the feedback and we're going to go do that homework today; to take a look at Ellwood. At the same time, as a citizen and as the superintendent, I would not come to Council and ask you, what is your specific budget for filling every pothole in Philadelphia? Show me the exact plan, all the contingencies. At some point I'm going to trust the folks to do the work and hold them accountable to do it.
Dr. Watlington, I think that is a great point. And I understand exactly what you're saying. I think the biggest difference between where we are right now as it relates to the school issues and other issues where we're asking folks to trust the institutions, is that we been down this road before and I know you --
-- might not have been there. We've been down this road before and it was traumatizing, and we got it wrong, right? So when people are asking questions, it is not personal against me as the Education Chair or Councilmember Lozada running the 7th District, or even you as the Superintendent or even Board President Streater. They're asking questions because they're traumatized because we got it wrong last time. So if we had a track record of getting this right, we wouldn't be wasting our time having this conversation. We would just go ahead over there and say, well, you-all got it because you-all have done this before.
And I commend you; I commend Colonel Hill, I commend the entire team for things like modifying Conwell and your stance on Conwell. Things you've done in the 3rd District and other districts. But I'm about to pass it to Councilmember Young, because we're just saying we still have more work to do. We're not saying you're, you're evil or you're gentrifiers or anything like that. We're just saying based on where we are, well, I'm not saying that. I'm sorry. Board President Streater, I'm not calling you that. I'm just saying based on where we are, we've seen some progress, and we still have some more work to do. Let me just --
-- we have one of my biggest issues -- oh, go ahead. I'm sorry, Board President.
I just -- we got 40 people for public comment. I got to let Mr. Young go.
I'm going to be brief. I'll be brief. I'll be brief, Chair Thomas. I honestly do believe that I have to go back to the board. I am unwilling today, at this moment, put on the spot, to say something that would imperil my credibility with the board when I have to ask them to do tough things as well. So what I can tell you in good faith, as you and I know, I will definitely take this back to the board, and we will have that conversation. But I would hope that our engage -- our exchange, whatever that was, that there is an understanding that we have -- we have some really big fish to fry as well. And we have some material things that only we are accountable to as well.
You guys have the toughest volunteer position in the city of Philadelphia.
Please know, we understand that. We're not saying that that is not the case --
But that said, the point has been made. I've heard it over and over again. Whatever heat you-all need to put under me to go and do what I need to do is done.
But I am unwilling, in this moment right now, to say one way or the other. And you would knew -- you would know as soon as I can possibly get that answer for you.
So we'll send it in writing to the other board members --
-- just so folks know. And hopefully we'll hear back from you so we know before we go into Council on Thursday. And we will -- we'll be able to go from there. Before I go to Councilmember Young, Mike, procurement numbers; two years ago, local procurement numbers for the school district of Philadelphia as it relates to Philadelphia businesses was below -- was in the teens. It was 15 percent or so or below. Can you communicate where we are as it relates to what percentage of school district contracts go to Philadelphia based businesses and what direction you feel like we're going in?
Yes. Thank you for your leadership in this area as well as other members of council and the board. We have gone from the teens in 2023 to 32 percent in the current year in terms of local suppliers. And we believe that we're on the correct trajectory to continue down that path.
Let us make sure that we continue to look at those big contracts, right? The substitute teaching contract, we're going to keep pushing that. We think that there are local firms who can do that. The cleaning contract; I know that there are people in Philadelphia that can clean, and there are a few other contracts that we talked about. I just want to put that on the record and say thank you, Mike, and the entire team on the fiscal side for the School District of Philadelphia. As well as you, Dr. Watlington, for your vision as it relates to some of the decisions that you've made to put us in this position. Go ahead, Dr. Watlington.
Mr. Chairman, pursuant to Councilmember Lozada's question, would you permit CFO Herbstman to tell you, in seconds or less, 18 which national groups have provided 19 the school district with 20 commendations in its budgeting and annual year over year audits?
Yeah, please go ahead, do that. Because I think it is important, and I think this is important, while you pull it out. I think it is important because we don't want people in Harrisburg to feel like the problem that we're dealing with is a mismanagement of money or bad decisions, right? Like, that is not -- that is not at all what I'm saying. Just like you're not going to agree with every contract and every spending and everything that we've done on the Council side, or I've done in my office, I don't want to accuse you of that specifically Dr. Watlington, because I've met with you every quarter since you've been here, and I'm aware of the position, the things you've done as it relates to not hiring staff and allowing positions in 440 to be downsized. So I know sometimes we don't give out enough compliments, but part of why we're not doing that today is because of the facilities issue. And if we didn't have to spend four hours arguing about facilities, we probably could have spent another hour or two giving out compliments for the great work that is being done. Go ahead, Mike. I'm sorry.
Yes, thank you. So as Dr. Watlington said earlier, we have -- for more than a decade consecutively, we have had unmodified our clean audits on our annual financial statements as well as our federal single audit. And for the financial statements, the awards that we've won are from the Government Finance Officers Association and ASBO International or the Association of School Business Officials International.
Yeah, no, congratulations. I understand the importance of that. And it puts us in a position to be able to do some of the balling that we know we're going to need to do to be able to invest in new facilities and things of that capacity. So we truly appreciate that. Thank you for the work that you're doing. Apologize if folks are taking this personal, but we have some -- this is a legacy moment. And Board President Streater, I think more than almost anybody in the room, you understand that because you're a graduate of Germantown High School, and you know, firsthand how these decisions we make will impact schools, neighborhoods, and people. So please don't take it personal. Chair recognizes Councilmember young.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think that just -- there are -- first I want to say thank you for the work that you all do. I -- it is -- as member Thomas said, it is -- it is a very, very thankless job what you do, you know, and we all -- we all care. Like, there is no one -- it is not -- it is not personal at all, but like, we all live here, we all have families, kids, everything, right? So it is, you know, we want to make sure that this gets done right, because you know, last time it wasn't, as a -- as a Councilmember alluded to. Just like -- I just want to mention between -- I want to say thank you, right, for increasing the amount of funding to the 5th Council District, right? Because you recognize the impact that these two school closings have had on that -- on our district. But just to put some numbers around it for -- in the last school -- proposed school closing, and this one facilities plan is 42 acres of land, right? As a real estate attorney, that is how I think, right? I manage that. I look at those things and look at what the impact is. 42 acres of land in the 5th Council District between the last two school closings, right? So let us think about that. That is a lot. And so our issues and our concerns are with the process, like, what went into the plan. We know that school district has to right- size; we understand that. But when we look at, you know, I just heard Dr. Watlington say that, you know, we can't keep schools that are half filled open. But then I look at a school like Strawberry Mansion, right? Who has an enrollment of what? 200 students or so. A 100 show up every day and of a capacity about 1500. That is severely underutilized. And I understand that there was, you know, a plan to try to not touch some of the comprehensive high schools, right? And that could be a reason why that, that school wasn't even thought of or looked at. But when you look at your own metrics, that one, that one fits every, you know, whatever classification that you -- that you -- that you were going by when you're deciding what facilities need to be closed or not. So let us just keep that in mind, because that is a fact, right? As the councilman alluded to that, that is a fact. That is not something that we are just making up here. When you're looking at the over utilization of schools, I look at Bache-Martin in my district that has a -- the capacity score of 158, that is severely overcrowded. But yet you want to merge -- you want to take students from two other schools and place them in a severely overcrowded school, right? Leaving that school with years of proposed renovations, where the AHERA reports already say that asbestos is rampant, right? So as you're going to -- going through the renovation process you're going to -- if you're going to find things unexpectedly, it is just what happens in construction. And so that is a fact. We -- the community has put forward a -- an alternative plan for that neighborhood where you're closing Waring to create a Masterman Middle School at Waring, where we have already a school that is severely overcrowded. We are emerging that catchment area. Why can't we just merge that -- those schools and create two separate schools? Create a separate elementary school for the community, a separate middle school for the community, right? Because Master -- we already know where and can be a middle school because you want to put Masterman Middle School there, right? So it already has the capacity to be a middle school, why can't it be a middle school for that community, right? When we already have a school that is a -- that is already overcrowded, you're going to make it even more severely overcrowded. So we're not saying that the plan, you know, things don't need to change, but some of the things that you have in the plan doesn't work for the communities. We are held accountable to the communities, like, we are. I mean, man, I know you guys are insulated from it because they don't choose you.