And that's done by some technology on the back end, which all of the operators within the state of Pennsylvania use.
They use the same tool.
That's that GL location.
That's correct.
And 21 years old, how do I prove that online?
You would put in your date of birth and the operator, in our case, ourselves, would use
third-party tools to determine that you are who you are and you live at the address that
you're stating you live at.
Okay. And why do I mean-
It's a fairly common practice of many, many companies in mobile gaming or mobile banking, same sort of thing.
Okay. I'll ask you the same question I asked Mr. Fretz that like anything, like most things in life, is it fair to say that that's not 100% perfect?
I would imagine that there are some outliers.
you mentioned you need an active bank account why is that well you have to be able to fund
the account and then if you're in the case that you want to you want it you've won and you want
to withdraw those funds you have to be able to to put those funds into a bank account okay could
I fund it with cash if I go to the facility you can okay thank you um so thank you for the back
for the background your background um at parks uh i want to discuss the proposed operation here
um at this at this this premises here at 1526 packer um and i want to just sort of take you
and the board through a little bit of a um a walkthrough if you will and so if you'll indulge
me for a moment as i sort of ask this first question let's just say uh joe smith walks
into Chickie and Pete's you know let's say this is approved and you build this Joe Smith walks
into Chickie and Pete's with his wife and two kids and they all sit down to have dinner he sees
you know that it's a sports bar and there's games on the big screens and he sees the sports book in
the back and so let's assume he's over 21 and he walks up to the sports book and what's the first
thing that will have to happen here. He'll have to, what, sort of get past the guards. Is that
correct? Well, he would have to, he would have to provide his state-issued license, driver's
license, presumably, or identification card to prove that he's 21 and able to walk in. Okay,
so let's make it, you know, let's make this an easy case. He looks obviously like he's in his
seventies and uh he's got id that's picture perfect all the rest and he walks inside but
But he's never been there before, never been in a sports book before.
he's never been there before never been in a sports book before so he walks up to a
So he walks up to a supervisor or a manager or one of the employees who knows their business.
And he says, what are my options here?
I'd like to place a bet.
What are my different options here?
So what are the different options that would be explained to Mr. Smith?
Well, it depends, I guess, first and foremost, what sport is he going to want to bet on?
uh you know a soccer basketball there's there's you know any number of different events
throughout the time of day that he would be uh in the facility okay so thank you let's say it's a
major league baseball and there's a phillies game that's that started five minutes ago and he says
i'd like to bet on this game um and i heard you could do in play betting um how you know how can
i do it here what am i how can i yeah so he would have he would have different options on what would
be available for him to bet uh that would be in play as you stated um and and those odds would be
changing dynamically based on what's happening on the field in the game wherever that happens
to be taking place whether it's in philadelphia or elsewhere right i'm i'm guess i'm getting in
my question is really more into the mechanics of how the operation works. And so my first,
so let me ask it this way. Suppose he says to the manager, I have my smartphone with me.
Can I, can I do it on my smartphone? Well, yes. Mr. Chair, my question, what does this have to
do with with the application i mean it's it's an operation of how you go into a sports book and
bet you could do this at any sports book you could do it a live casino you could do it at
rivers casino i don't understand what the point is yeah i was letting mr bonnie go for a bit but
i think actually he may have been asking the question i was going to ask so let's take the
same scenario man and wife walk in they got kids maybe no kids but let's use paul's example they
sit down to the table he has an account uh with off-track betting he has and doesn't have to get
up and walk into that room he can make a bet from his cell phone sitting at the table the same way
he can do from his home his living room is that correct that is correct i mean i know i mean that
goes on all the time and i made this argument i think at the first hearing you don't need to have
a sports book room and go make a bet bets are being made at a bar with a whether it is a tv
monitor on or not all the time and it's any kind of gaming you want from slot machines to table games
to sports events uh and i'll consider i guess some people would consider horse racing sport
sporting event so i'm i'm not clear either where you're going with this mr bonnie well we first
have to understand what the operation is and so that's why i'm asking these questions i mean you're
saying that um you're assuming a lot of things and also i think we may be i'm not assuming it's
a reality i am not assuming it's a reality i have friends who have had accounts at race i don't
know what's called off track betting for for horse racing for years and they sit down in their home
sometimes and make bets on a saturday afternoon or whatever day of the week they choose they don't
have to get up and go to a sports book facility that is like kind of like being proposed to
chicky and pete's i mean i've said this from day one they can be sitting at the bar today
in chicky and pete's and bet on a horse and on a horse race whether they're visually seeing it or
not. It goes on constantly. Mr. Chairman, you're not letting, I need to be able to ask these
questions of these witnesses. We're getting into some of the other offerings that are offered here
at this sportsbook. You're thinking it's all one thing, and I'm thinking you may be limiting it.
I think it's a lot of things, but go ahead. Let's hear where you're going.
Okay, thank you. So let's say you have seven teller positions at the current location at 700 Parker. So those are seven stations where tellers or people can sit there. What are those people for?
those people would facilitate an over-the-counter bet uh which is different from from betting on
your phone it's where you would uh communicate um with the teller to tell them which event
and which type of bet you would like to place what amount of money you would like to bet
of money you would like to bet on that event. Um, and then that, that teller would facilitate
on that event um and then
that transaction. They would, they would key it into what we call an OTC over the counter
betting terminal, which, um, would then produce a physical ticket for that customer.
And then they would exchange and their transaction would take place where the teller would take that
money, put it into a till and present the patron with that ticket and confirm what that
patron that the bet was the bet that they wanted before they walked away? Okay. So Mr. Smith,
who may have a $20 bill in his pocket, could take out that $20 bill, walk over to the teller station,
give it to the teller, physically hand it to the teller and say, I want to place a bet on such and
such. The teller would put that bill in the drawer and generate a piece of paper that represents the
bet or describes the bet and give it to Mr. Smith. And they would agree that that was the correct bet
that he wanted to place. And then he would walk away. Is that fair to say? That's correct. That
you just described retail sports betting. Okay. Thank you. Now there's also kiosks at this
location. I believe at the current location at 700 Packer, you have 13 self-service kiosks. Do
Do you know how many kiosks you would have at this location, approximately?
I believe we were targeting in the neighborhood of 8 to 10 in that room.
And what can Mr. Smith do at that kiosk that he can't do on his phone or that he can't do at the teller?
To my knowledge, he can do exactly the same thing he can do across either one of those applications,
whether it be on his mobile phone his computer at home or wherever he happens to be uh or over
the counter so what is the why do you have these kiosks if it's just superfluous some some people
well i wouldn't i wouldn't agree with that some people some people like to just do where are we
going where are we going with i mean it's established you can bet that if they didn't
have a kiosk no kiosk they can still do the same thing i i'm trying to pull they'll do respect
well i believe this line of testimony can go on for four hours it's not i'm not gonna allow that
we're not gonna allow that it's not gonna go on for four hours i believe it's established you can
make a bet from anywhere in this on the planet if you want it's like they have a cell phone
a computer don't need a kiosk so they have kiosk what is the harm in having a kiosk well i think
we're going to uh we don't know because we're mr cullen is still telling us about them well we
don't know because there is there's nothing different about the kiosk well that may be
please try to mr cullen i'm sorry please try to answer that mr mr cullen you you said
you said a minute ago a minute ago that some people prefer the gambling on the kiosk is that
correct yes and why is that some customers i think that that requires for speculation by him
as to why people don't speculate in a certain manner well he may he's the head of sports
gambling for parks what one can assume that these kiosks are not free and that they have to invest
in them he's taking up precious space in a less less than 3 000 square foot place it's an amenity
for those who would like to use the kiosk but i will bet you talking about betting if there was
no kiosk in that room people who want to make a bet are going to figure out how to make the bet
whether it's their cell phone their computer or their bookie for that for that reason
it's not going to change anything mr chairman would you advise the casino that they're wasting
their money and having these kiosks i can't advise them on anything if they want to spend
their money it's their money it's their money thank you thank you um mr cullen i apologize
for getting loud but this questioning is just going on and on and i don't see where you're
going with? Well, it's just 1030. We already did one witness. We're now on the second.
And I think we're going at a pretty good clip here. I need to make my record. I need to try
and persuade you and the other members of the board that not to grant this approval. And I also
try and need to make my record. So we touched on, but didn't really talk about the app yet.
I want to work with the scenario where Mr. Smith doesn't have an account yet.
a an account yet this is his first time doing sports betting so if he says to the manager i want
This is his first time doing sports.
to um do it on my smartphone um i assume he will have to sign up on his on his smartphone is that
correct objection we're talking about he's talking about gambling on a smartphone and and we're
talking about a sports book application i mean why are we talking about guys i don't know i'm trying
these are relevant questions. I'm trying to get the use that is being proposed. I'm trying to
get the operation being proposed described. And my question is... Excuse me. I'm sorry, Mr. Bonney.
Can I ask, can you just explain how this relates to the criteria for grant
of a special exception for something that's been classified as assembly and entertainment?
Well, one of the questions is harm to the community. One of the harms to the community
is gambling addiction. The operation itself is a gambling parlor. And we believe that there's
a connection between putting a gambling parlor in a neighborhood and gambling addiction. And
we need to establish the facts before we make that link. So I'm trying to establish some of
the facts about how this operation works. And I think that this is all relevant to that. I'm not
asking this out of just idle curiosity. This goes to the heart of our case.
I object, Mr. Chairman. I think it's totally irrelevant about whether there's gambling on
people on their phones and everything else i've said that from day one and well i i understand
you said it from day one but we have a hearing here and so i understand paul i paul i do understand
i apologize for raising my voice i understand it's a hearing but if you're going if you're
suggesting it sounds like you're suggesting that this proposed gambling power is going to have a
negative impact and and cause people in the neighborhood to become uh addictive to gambling
and they can now walk three blocks east
and bet on anything they want in the live casino.
I don't see how you can make that argument.
Well, I don't understand how you can make that argument.
Well, Mr. Chairman, I can make the argument
and you can make your decision
and you can vote yay or nay.
And I respect that you can vote yay or nay,
but I need to be able to make that argument.
And you haven't heard the argument yet.
And that's what I'm here today to present.
I'm sorry, but that's, this is what this case is. This is a very important case to the city of Philadelphia, to Packer Park neighborhood. And I think you need to hear the evidence. You can vote however you wish.
I understand that. I understand that.
That's your power. And I apologize, Mr. Chairman, for getting a little bit frustrated sometimes also. So my apologies to you and the members of the board.
No worries. No worries.
Well, thank you. Thank you. It is nice to see everybody again, of course. So, Mr. Cullen, when Mr. Smith signs up to bet on sports on the Parks app, he has to put in the sorts of things that we talked about before.
he's got to put in his age, he's got to put in his address, he's got to put in his email address,
those sorts of things. Is that fair to say? Yes. Okay. And isn't it true that, because I did this
last night, Mr. Cullen, that once he signs up on the Park Sports app, that he's going to get an
email that says, thank you for signing up? It depends. It depends if he opts in to
to our email marketing or not. He can opt out of that and elect not to receive emails.
But the default is if you put in your email address that you get the thank you email.
Mr. Chairman, objection again. I mean, continuing on. I mean, we're talking about
online gambling here and not this application. This application is not to have online gambling.
I don't know. I'm establishing some predicate facts to get to or when I get to. I understand
that you may not understand where i'm getting to right now you may in the next question or two
understand it i need to we'll let it we'll go ahead proceed mr bonnie okay but the the default
is that when you put in your email address you get the thank you email thank you for signing up
with parks isn't that correct yes and if you and if you've opted in for other marketing messaging
We would we would send emails to you about special events, meaning sporting.
We would send emails to you about special events, meaning sporting events, if in fact
you signed up for a sports betting account.
If you're playing casino games, it would be a casino marketing message.
Well, but isn't it true if I just sign up for the sports betting that the thank you
email that I get is also going to offer me to go to the iGaming component of this sport?
Yes, of course.
Of course, cross-sell, definitely.
Cross-sell, is that what you mean?
Cross-marketing?
Yeah, it's called marketing.
I understand.
I'm a lawyer, so I don't do much marketing, but I understand that you folks do.
Is there a limit on how much Mr. Smith can put on his account when he walks into the sports book at the back of Chickie and Pete's?
I'm sorry.
I'm confused by the question.
Suppose he has a thousand dollars.
in cash. Can he give $1,000 in cash to the teller and say, put this on my account?
Meaning deposited into my account? Yes. Yes. Okay. Is there a limit on how much he can deposit?
In the casino or in Chickies and Pete's with the OTB PGCB license? I believe that there is.
The actual amount is escaping me, but I can get it.
well you're you're saying you can get it on another day or i'm not i understand what you're