um all we're doing is trying to prevent a bricks and mortar um zoning application that seeks to
uh install a physical establishment at in a c1 district um where the city council has said
you have to go through certain hoops you have to go through certain tests and questions and it's
those questions that we're going to be those arguments that we're going to be making here
today. We're squarely within the rubric of the special exception. Mr. Mattione laid it out,
I think, in a, he touched on it in his memo that he submitted, but everybody knows that we have
the opportunity and the burden to show that this is worse than the typical assembly and
entertainment. That's what we're here to do. We think, I don't, I guess I should,
I keep interrupting you, Chair. I apologize.
Mr. Bonney, if we're accepting that it is a special exception for an assembly and entertainment use, isn't your burden then to show that there is something about this location that makes it have more of a negative impact than this use would generally have?
it's not it's not then a a sports gambling what is it about this location that makes it
um more detrimental here than it would be at another location well i i i you know i've been
asked these my my case has been interrupted with these questions now for a good 10 minutes
and it's important I understand I am I am here you're putting on a witness who's going to talk
about the evils of gambling and how this is going to have a negative impact on the neighborhood of
Packer Park right Mr. Brunel you said that you're familiar you uh was it the google map
have you been physically down the Chickie and Pete's no I to restate what I said at the beginning
I have not physically been to this Chickie and Pete's location.
Have you been anywhere close to the Chickie and Pete's location?
He hasn't been there.
He's telling you.
I'm asking, I'm asking Mr. Brunel.
In the last year, I've not physically been close to that Chickie and Pete's location.
Are you aware of the casino that is within three blocks of Chickie and Pete's?
And do you know if there was ever any objection to that casino being placed at that location?
uh i'm i'm only aware of this i've been involved with this proposal for it's going into this
residential heavily densely populated neighborhood so you're not familiar with the live casino as a
location correct and and i'm familiar with all the locations and i'm familiar with all the locations
in philadelphia let me finish and the proximity of live casino to residential community
are you familiar with that could you please repeat the question i didn't understand the
question are you are you familiar with the live casinos proximity to a residential community
yes and how does that differentiate from the proposed site at chickie and peach from
in its proximity to residential community
well i think we're going to speak to that i'll defer to attorney bonnie if he wants me to
get into all that now if he wants to go through why we're making the case why this is different
than the other proposals in philadelphia making the question well mr chairman that was not a
special exception case i didn't say it was i'm just curious because it's addiction and it's
close proximity to residents and the residents in Packer Park are all going to become addicted
And the residents in Packer Park are all going to become addicted gamblers because of the proximity between Chickie and Pete's and the residential community.
gamblers because of the proximity.
But it doesn't apply to the other side of Broad Street, the people in the stadium district and their proximity to a live casino.
I don't understand your point.
I didn't think you would.
Okay, no worries.
No, no.
Mr. Bonney, I have to interrupt.
I have a question.
What is it about the people in Packer Park who, what you're really saying is that this
isn't a neighborhood and they are more inclined to become addicted?
I'm not saying that.
That's what it sounds like you're saying.
No, I'm not saying that.
I think people in Packer Park have the same DNA and life history as people all over the
Okay, thank you.
Then why are we here?
why are we having this argument can i make a suggestion can i put on my case first and then
you can beat me up well you have been okay mr bonnie but the way it works is we do get an
opportunity to ask questions i understand that but i would i think we all really want to try
and finish today and if i can't finish we're going to finish today okay well proceed
Thank you. I appreciate it. I don't mind getting beat up. You know that.
But proceed, please. We've got to move on.
Oh, OK. I have to. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to laugh, Ms. Tenere. I'm happy to proceed. I'm just.
Mr. Burnell, what is gambling addiction and how do you define it?
So it's defined as an uncontrollable urge to keep gambling despite the toll that it's taking on your life.
Okay. And do you make a distinction between problem gambling and gambling addiction?
We do. We use the term gambling addiction because it involves the whole, anyone who gets consumed with gambling, we consider an addicted gambler.
Okay. So when you use the term gambling addiction, you're talking about people who aren't necessarily clinically diagnosed with the disorder also. Is that correct?
Yes. It runs the spectrum of people who are, you know, you're involved in kind of a part, you know, you're either at risk for being a gambling addiction or you're immersed in gambling addiction.
Okay. What are some of the harms to the person associated with gambling addiction?
So life-changing financial losses, which lead to bankruptcy, which those types of situations
and often leads to family, incredible family dysfunction in the form of divorce and harm
to other family relationships, and also can lead to significant individual depression.
And more importantly than any other addiction in society, it leads to attempted suicide.
Is it a recognized mental disorder?
Yes, it's a disorder in the DSM-5.
Okay. I'm going to show you this section of the DSM-5. What is the DSM-5?
So the DSM-5 is known as a Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.
It's a publication by the American Psychiatric Association for the Classification of Mental Disorders.
It's used by clinicians and researchers, drug regulatory agencies, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, the legal system, and policymakers, and it recognizes the Bible pretty much as anyone involved with mental disorders.
Okay, so looking at this first page of Exhibit B, there's nine behaviors, and the American Psychiatric Association has determined that if you have four to five of them, if you show four to five of them, you have a mild case of gambling disorder, all the way to if you have eight or nine of them, you have a severe case of gambling disorder. Is that correct?
Okay, so also this first note that they have that I highlighted after the description of the disorder itself says, and this sort of goes to Ms. Zuleta's question about fast food places that some people overindulge in.
And this note says, although some behavioral conditions that do not involve ingestion of substances have similarities to substance-related disorders, only one disorder, gambling disorder, has sufficient data to be included in this section.
So, you know, people say they are addicted to the Internet. People say they're addicted to shopping. But none of those are in the DSM-5, right?
the only non-substance-related disorder.
non-substance related disorder. So other than alcohol and drugs and nicotine,
gambling is the only other one in the DSM-5. Yes, that's correct. Okay. So this, a few pages
here, I'm not going to go into, I'm not going to waste time to go into this. The board can read
this if it wishes, but this talks about one of the diagnostic features about chasing losses,
that you have to go back and try and chase your losses. And that also involves many instances of
deceit, including covering up behaviors such as forgery and fraud. And does that resonate with
you in the work that you've done over the years. Yes. Okay. The other thing that says up to half
individuals in treatment have suicidal ideation, 17% have attempted suicide. You would agree that
that's a problem in this area? A huge problem. There's also subcategories. So while people talk
about how many people in society may have gambling addiction, the DSM-5 says that, well, you can
break it down into subgroups. For instance, the prevalence of gambling disorders are higher among
African-Americans than among European-Americans. Does that resonate with your work? Yes. All right,
let's keep going. Tell us about sports betting. What is the modern sports betting model?
So the modern sports betting model is really central, essentially based on this concept of
in-play betting where you literally are betting on events constantly throughout the course of a
game it's betting on every pitch in a Phillies game you know is Joel Embiid going to make this
free throw you know it's it's repetitive and continuous and and that's what makes it so
right for people to get addicted to it because it's constant and continuous throughout the
entire game. Okay. Um, I'm showing you an exhibit from a recent study. Um, we can talk about this
study very briefly. Um, but it talks about the prevalence of problem gambling across gambling
types. Um, and as you can, as you can see, we've circled sports betting, um, where, uh,
And people who've engaged in sports betting over the past year, 5.7 of them have reported problem gambling behavior. And as you can see, that number is on the high end when it's compared to, well, the top line is all gambling.
So all gambling together had about 2.3% of the people reporting symptoms.
And, you know, you see the various categories here, but certainly 5.7 is on the high end.
Horse racing is also on the high end.
But tell us a little bit about this study.
What is this?
Who did this study and what do you make of it?
It was a study commissioned by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts a few years back.
And I personally don't think the study was targeted enough in terms of who they surveyed.
I think the numbers are even worse than what they captured.
But nonetheless, I do agree with the main point of table 11.
And the main point being that comparatively speaking, the prevalence of problem gamblers
in sports betting is higher than many other forms of feedback. Is that correct? Okay.
And why is that? You've read a lot of literature. We have some literature to present to the board
here. But if you can give us an overview of why is that? What is it about sports betting
that it poses such harm?
Yeah, well, it's about a target, definitely a younger demographic. It's young men under the age of 35 or so, the peer pressure aspect to this. And that's why doing it in a sports bar is very appealing in its distinction between doing it online in your home.
It's having that shared experience watching the sporting event where you're placing in-play wagers is a major part of it.
So that social environment is key, as well as the environment of being, you know, around alcohol.
So the mixture of alcohol, peer pressure, and kind of that, you know, young and male in that sports bar environment is really ripe for people to get caught up in the highly addictive aspect of sports gambling.
Okay. Did you mention bonuses and promotions? I'm sorry if you didn't.
Okay. Did you mention bonuses and promotions? I'm sorry if you didn't. I don't know.
Actually, I did not. The whole concept of how this is marketed, the bonuses and promotion is
a huge factor that leads people to get hooked. So they use things like cash back offers or
something called a risk-free bet, which is a gambling marketing practice that makes people
feel better about losing uh because it offers them a cash return for part of your wager okay
it contributes to the perception that you can't lose from gambling and and that perception
actually particularly harmful to kids all right well let's keep going here um uh so uh let me just
here um uh is this is from the parks um website this is odds boost is this one of the boost your
winnings is this one of the bonuses and promotions is this that's a good example okay and on the
next page is um what's called up to 500 risk free bet is this another good example yes okay
um and you know is it a risk-free bet no it's it's a gimmick
okay and uh how do you know that um well you you it's not you you don't you don't get that
500 back you have to wager that 500 you know if you have to put matching funds into it you look
at the fine print of it it shows you that it's a gimmick okay thank you let's move on uh thank
you for that testimony. You know, are there any, so you're a, you're a, and I should mention for
the board, you know, I'm, I'm on your board. So, you know, and I, you know, I know your organization
well, but are there other organizations that are sounding the alarm about sports betting?
Yes, there are several. And one worth mentioning is the National Council on Problem Gambling.
All right. Tell me about the National Council on Problem Gambling. Who are they and why do you point them out?
Yeah, so I will say it's not often that I will point to the National Council on Problem Gambling.
We disagree on funding. They're largely funded by the gambling industry.
And so, you know, usually much of their messaging will reinforce the status quo in terms of what's happening in our country when it comes to gambling addiction.
uh so they usually be pretty tame about calling out some of the business practices so that being
said when it comes to commercialized sports betting the national council on problem gambling
has been pretty out in front on this they've been hammering this they've really been sounding the
alarm about what a major issue this is okay so um this is uh exhibit d is a something called an
executive summary that's on the National Council for Problem Gambling website, and it's called
a Review of Sports Wagering and Gambling Addiction Studies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a couple
years ago, some researchers did a literature review, and they looked at about 140 different
studies on sports betting, and they tried to pull together all the available data when it comes to
gambling addiction um and that the national council for problem gambling put this put together
this executive summary um that summarizes that that study that was done that literature
review study that was done um is that correct yes okay and in this executive summary and i'm
going to submit the study itself um for the record but for this executive summary that's put out by
the national council as you can see in this first highlighted their first takeaway was that the rate
of gambling problems among sports bettors is at least twice as high as among gamblers in general
is that did i read that correctly yes and then about the concerns about modern sports gambling
their second concern is live in play betting that sports gamblers can bet during the game
on hundreds and potentially thousands of discrete events. This shortens the lag time between bet
and reward, increasing the speed and frequency of gambling, which increases the risk of problematic
behavior. Is that correct? Yes. I'm going to jump to the next page. Marketing. Aggressive promotions
in all forms of marketing and advertising make it more difficult for sports bettors who are trying
to curtail their gambling ads that emphasize free play tout the ease of placing a bet and offer
risk-free bonuses are particularly problematic is that correct yes and then i'll just leave you with
this last sentence here it says looking ahead sports gambling is growing rapidly with significant
Sports gambling is growing rapidly with significant potential to create or worsen gambling problems.
potential to create or
or what?
Is that correct?
Okay, thank you.
There's also, you've given me some news articles from gambling trade magazines.
This one is called U.S. Bets, Exhibit F.
And the title of this article from last year says, In Play Betting, More Dangerous for Problem
Gambling, Experts Warn. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. And then this other one is from the online
poker report of all places from this year, just a month ago. And it's titled, Sports Betting is
Quickly Becoming a Favorite Pastime in America, But the National Council for Problem Gambling
sees it as a high risk um so this is just this is just you telling us that uh the national council
is sounding the alarm on this is that correct yes and as and just to just to clarify what you're
saying is the national council is funded in large part by the gambling industry is that correct
that's correct and all how about their board of directors and advisory board do they have casino
much of their board it also consists of people from the gambling industry all right thank you
very much um let's talk about the mechanics let's keep going we're almost we're getting
through your testimony very nicely i'm happy with the time we're making let's talk about the
mechanics how does the industry offer sports betting so it's they offer online and on your
mobile phone uh second way is they get offered at a casino sports book and now you're starting to
see in extreme proposals, extreme proposals like this one at Chickie and Pete's where a sports book