COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA1 COMMITTEE ON RULES Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania3 Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 10:11 a.m. *BILL 110185 - Richmond St. Entertainment Venue6 *BILL 110302 - Chestnut Hill College Zoning BILL 110377 - Chestnut Hill College IDD Changes7 BILL 110306 - Outdoor Advertising BILL 110312 - West Poplar Rezoning8 BILL 110344 - Haddington Urban Renewal Area BILL 110345 - West Parkside Urban Renewal Area9 *BILL 110347 - Cash for Gold BILL 110348 - Model Cities Urban Renewal Area10 BILL 110381 - 5th & Master Cruz Rec Ctr Rezoning BILL 110382 - DuPont Street Rezoning11 *BILL 110678 - I-95 Condemnation Corridor *BILL 100720 - Market Street East12 (*Amended Bills)13 (Bills' full text, amendments included herein.)14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:16 James F. Kenney, Chair W. Wilson Goode, Jr.17 Blondell Reynolds Brown William K. Greenlee Darrell L. Clarke Donna Reed Miller18 Frank DiCicco Anna C. Verna Also Present: Councilman Curtis Jones, Jr. 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103821
Good2 morning, ladies and gentlemen. The3 Committee on Rules is now in session. We4 have a quorum present with Councilmembers5 Rizzo, Clarke, Greenlee, Goode, and6 DiCicco.7 (Excessive ambient noise and8 personal conversations in chamber.)9
Could I10 please have your attention? We have a11 long list of bills today, 13, and some12 will require a lot of discussion, so we13 want to get moving as fast as we can.14 The first bill on our list for15 today is Bill No. 110382, which is an16 ordinance to amend the Philadelphia17 Zoning Maps by changing the zoning18 designations of certain areas of land19 located within an area bounded by Dupont20 Street, Lawnton Street, Green Lane, and21 Ridge Avenue.22 (Witness comes forward.)23
Sir, would24 you please identify yourself for the25 4 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103821 record.2
Good morning,3 Councilman Kenney and members of the4 Rules Committee.5
I am William8 Kramer, Division Director of the9 Development Division of the Philadelphia10 City Planning Commission. I am here11 today to testify on Bill No. 110382,12 which was introduced into City Council on13 May 12, 2011.14 Bill No. 110382 will change the15 zoning designations of certain parcels of16 land generally bounded by DuPont Street,17 Lawton Street, Green Lane, and Ridge18 Avenue from the existing designation of19 R-5 residential to a new designation of20 R-9A.21 The mid-block rezoning would22 affect the properties known as new 551 to23 555 DuPont Street. The developer24 proposes eight new semi-detached25 5 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103821 structures for use as single-family2 dwellings. While the current zoning3 would permit the building type, it would4 not permit the lot size as proposed.5 The Philadelphia City Planning6 Commission will consider Bill No. 1103827 at its meeting of June 14, 2011.8
Is there12 anyone else here to testify on this bill?13 (Witness comes forward.)14
You want to15 testify on this bill? Please take a16 seat.17
And if you'll22 just give me a minute to get my exhibits23 and handouts together?24
Is there3 anyone else in the room that's going to4 testify on this bill?5 (No response.)6
Yes,9 please.10 (Mr. Pollack distributes11 handout materials.)12
Please15 identify yourself for the record and16 proceed.17
Steven Pollack,18 on behalf of the owners, DuPont Street19 Development, LLP.20 Mr. Chairman and members of the21 committee, we are seeking a rezoning and22 remapping to R-9A.23 This property, as you can see24 from the front sheet that I gave you, is25 7 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103821 burdened with something that's out --2 that stands out within this neighborhood3 of -- in central Roxborough. It's4 burdened with a industrial auto body shop5 with a paint booth; and also, it has a6 steep slope from DuPont back down to7 Green Lane.8 We are going to develop this9 property. You need to build basically10 four boxes with retaining walls because11 we're going to have about a 12-foot high12 retaining wall between the two -- the13 front and back.14 And what we're trying to do is,15 on the second sheet, you'll see where our16 site is located, and we have a colored17 map that shows that there are many18 single-family twin homes in the19 neighborhood. And one of the reasons why20 we suggested R-9A was that we weren't21 going to introduce duplexes or22 multifamily units into this single-family23 neighborhood.24 But we feel that this site is25 8 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103821 special in the sense that it's different2 and has -- sort of with the R-5 zoning,3 has been created as an island, and it4 needs to be set free, or we're else not5 going to have a redevelopment or a6 recycling of the housing stock in this7 neighborhood in central Roxborough. So8 that's why we're asking for you to9 consider -- and why Councilman Jones was10 willing to introduce -- the ordinance to11 change this to R-9A.12 We do have a sample of what the13 homes would look like, the set of twins.14 I do have a site plan if this panel would15 like to see it -- the committee would16 like to see the site plan, with regard to17 this.18 I do have letters of support I19 can hand out from Lewis Aiker who is the20 21st Ward and Brian C. Foley, who lives21 next door, at 549 DuPont Street, who are22 in support of the remapping.23 As I said, this still an -- it24 could be an active industrial auto body25 9 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103821 shop. We feel that because of that and2 also because it would -- there is a3 non-conformity created even with the4 existing zoning because there's been a --5 in 2002, there was a change in the6 ordinance that made the R-5 semi-detached7 needs to be 29 feet wide.8 And if you look at some of the9 housing stock in this area, you'll find10 that there are very few homes that meet11 the 25-foot width -- or 29-foot width.12 And, therefore, basically, the existing13 zoning has rendered practically the14 entire neighborhood nonconforming so that15 anybody would have to have that.16 What we're trying to do, given17 that this is the only industrial site18 still existing in all of the residential19 block, we're trying to revitalize it by20 allowing these three properties -- and21 it's three separate properties -- to be22 able to fit with something, given that23 it's Wissahickon Watershed, had to go24 through a lot of storm water management,25 10 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103821 with storm water tanks in the front of2 each property; that's why the properties3 are being set back 22 feet instead of the4 8 feet that are required by the Zoning5 Code.6 And so, that's some of the7 different aspects of it without getting8 into more technical details, 'cause I9 know you're burdened with a lot of things10 today.11
Okay.12 Anything for this witness?13 (No questions.)14
Anyone else18 here to testify on this bill?19 (No response.)20
And are2 there any amendments to the bill? Are3 there any proposed amendments to the4 bill?5
Okay,9 great. Thank you.10 The next bill on our list is11 Bill No. 110381, which is an ordinance to12 amend the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by13 changing the zoning designations of14 certain areas of land located within an15 area bounded by Fifth Street, Master16 Street, Sixth Street, and Jefferson17 Street.18 Please identify yourself for19 the record.20
Good morning,21 Councilman Kenney and members of the22 Committee on Rules.23
I am William2 Kramer, Division Director of the3 Development Division of the Philadelphia4 City Planning Commission. I am here5 today to testify on Bill No. 110381,6 which was introduced into City Council7 May 12, 2011.8 Bill No. 110381 will change the9 zoning designations of certain parcels of10 land generally bounded by Fifth Street,11 Master Street, Sixth Street, and12 Jefferson Street from the existing13 designations of G2-General Industrial and14 C2-Commercial to a new single designation15 of C2-Commercial.16 This block, which is the17 location of the Cruz Recreation Center,18 houses baseball and multi-use fields, a19 multipurpose building, an outdoor pool, a20 pool house, and other passive-recreation21 facilities.22 Bill No. 110381 will permit the23 Ludlow Youth Community Center, a24 neighborhood nonprofit organization, to25 13 6.07.11 RULES - BILL 1103811 run an after-school-care program from the2 multipurpose building the Philadelphia.3 The City Planning Commission4 will consider Bill No. 110381 at its5 meeting of June 14, 2011, with a staff6 recommendation for approval.7
Just10 quickly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.11 Mr. Kramer, I'm just wondering.12 I certainly have no problem with this13 bill and what the youth community center14 wants to do, but what is the problem with15 how it is now? I guess is like what --16
It's that the G-217 classification would require the18 community center to go to the Zoning19 Board of Adjustment.20
So by changing it22 to a single classification of23 C2-Commercial, it is permitted under the24 code and would permit the proposed use as25 14 6.07.11 RULES - BILL 1103811 a matter of right.2
Because3 it's the dual --4 (Indiscernible; parties talking5 over each other.)6
Because it's a7 split-zone parcel, it's partly G-2. Yes,8 sir.9
Any other12 questions for this witness?13 (No further questions.)14
And let the15 record show that Councilwoman Donna Reed16 Miller is also in attendance at the17 hearing.18 Anyone else to testify on this19 bill?20 (No response.)21
Seeing22 none, we will now to move to Bill No.23 110312, which is an ordinance to amend24 the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing25 15 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103121 the zoning designations of certain areas2 of land located within an area bounded by3 Girard Avenue, Ninth Street, Fairmount4 Avenue, Tenth Street, Wallace Street, and5 Broad Street.6 Please identify yourself for7 the record.8
Good morning,9 Councilman Kenney and members of the10 Rules Committee.11
I am William14 Kramer, Division Director of the15 Development and Planning Division of the16 Philadelphia City Planning Commission. I17 am here today to testify on Bill No.18 110312, which was introduced by19 Councilmember Clarke on April 28, 2011.20 Bill No. 110312 amends the21 Philadelphia Zoning Maps by rezoning an22 area bounded by Girard Avenue, Ninth23 Street, Fairmount Avenue, Tenth Street,24 Wallace Street, and Broad Street. This25 16 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103121 was a community-based remapping2 encompassing 25 square blocks of land3 southeast of Broad Street and Girard4 Avenue in the West Poplar neighborhood.5 The existing zoning consists of6 a mix of commercial, general, and limited7 industrial in small areas of residential8 zoning classifications. The proposed9 rezoning will introduce the R-9A10 single-family residential district to11 reflect the current use of the12 neighborhood.13 The primary development of this14 area was the Nehemiah Homes, which was15 developed for single-family16 homeownership, where the homes are also17 limited to residential use by their deed18 restrictions. This was accomplished19 using redevelopment law and controls,20 which are expiring. The area had relied21 on these controls, and they had not22 updated the existing zoning designations23 to ensure that land use matched the24 zoning. The provisions of this bill will25 17 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103121 rectify that situation.2 The Philadelphia City Planning3 Commission considered Bill No. 110312 at4 their meeting of May 17, 2011, and5 recommended that it be approved.6 This concludes my testimony. I7 appreciate the opportunity and I would be8 happy to answer any questions you may9 have.10
Thank you11 very much for your testimony.12 Any questions for this witness?13 (No questions.)14
Anyone else15 to testify on this bill?16 (No response.)17
Seeing18 none...19 I assume there's a suspension20 for all of these?21
Okay, all24 right.25 18 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 Bill No. 110377, an ordinance2 amending Title 14 of The Philadelphia3 Code relating to "Zoning and Planning" by4 amending Chapter 14-1100, entitled5 "Institutional Development District," by6 amending certain provisions of the7 Institutional Development District8 concerning permitted uses, minimum9 district area, gross floor area, and10 occupied area by placing additional11 limitations to those provisions for the12 Institutional Development Districts13 located within a certain area of the City14 and by providing for exceptions from15 certain provisions of the Wissahickon16 Watershed regarding impervious17 ground-cover limitations and construction18 on steep slopes, under certain terms and19 conditions.20 (Additional witnesses come21 forward.)22
Councilman, did23 you want me to take Bill 110302 at the24 same time, sir? It is also --25 19 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021
I hear you.2 All right. We'll get testimony on these.3 These two bills go together.4 The other bill is Bill No.5 110302, which is an ordinance to amend6 the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing7 the zoning designation of certain areas8 of land located within an area bounded by9 Northwestern Avenue, Meadowbrook Avenue,10 Stenton Avenue, Hillcrest Avenue,11 Germantown Avenue, Bells Mill Road, and12 Wissahickon Turnpike.13 Please identify yourself for14 the record.15
Good morning,16 Councilman Kenney and members of the17 Rules Committee.18
I am William21 Kramer, Division Director of the22 Development Division of the Philadelphia23 City Planning Commission. I am here24 today to testify on Bill No. 5 Bill No. 15 Bill No. 22 Bill No. 8 The new Campus Center, located9 centrally on the Main Campus, will house10 academic and recreational facilities as11 well as housing a parking garage for 55012 cars. Additionally, to the existing13 Clement Hall, to be used for both14 academic and residential purposes, are15 proposed. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 have a Main Campus as well as a Sugarloaf2 Campus. 6 The proposed new development7 will continue approximately 434,0008 square feet of development. 5 percent of this site. 15 Given the current zoning16 designation of R-2 residential, none of17 the proposed uses are permitted as a18 matter of right. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 the campus to the provisions of the2 Master Plan. 12 The City Planning Commission,13 at its meeting of April 19, 2011,14 recommended that the rezoning occur and15 that the Master Plan of Development be16 approved. On May 17, 2011, the17 Philadelphia City Planning Commission18 recommended approval for Bill No. 21 Bill No. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 IDD that have frontage on Germantown2 Avenue from Northwest Avenue to Bells3 Mills Road. Currently, the only IDD4 zoning proposed is for the Chestnut Hill5 College. 8 The provisions for IDDs in this9 area will be changed in order to further10 restrict potential development. 17 Bill No. 6 Lastly, Bill No. 1103777 relieves some of the requirements set8 forth in the Wissahickon Watershed9 Controls. This bill, under certain terms10 and conditions, will permit new11 development on slopes greater than 2512 percent, allow impervious coverage to13 exceed 20 percent, and permit new road14 construction where there will be a net15 decrease in the amount of impervious16 coverage. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 Bill No. 13 The Philadelphia City Planning14 Commission, at its meeting of May 17,15 2011, recommended that Bill No. 20
Thank you21 very much.22 Perhaps we'll hear the other23 testimony first.24
Whoever's2 going to testify on behalf of the3 institution, please identify yourself for4 the record.5
Good morning,6 Councilman Kenney and members of the7 Rules Committee.8
I'm William11 Kelson, on behalf of Chestnut Hill12 College.13
Could you14 pull the microphone a little closer to15 you.16
If I may, the19 Master Plan that is being presented today20 is unique and, I think it's fair to say,21 unprecedented in its level of detail. 10 As Mr. Kramer indicated, the11 Master Plan District Area covers12 approximately 74 acres. 5 percent of the16 Sugarloaf Campus will be occupied by17 buildings. Maximum gross floor areas18 established through the plan are well19 below those levels set forth in the20 zoning classification itself. And this21 is accomplished through the proposed22 amendments for the IDD that Mr. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 for the Master Plan are approximately2 39 percent. 20 The plan contemplates the21 creation of approximately 1300 vehicular22 spaces on both campuses. The parking23 structures will be located and configured24 so as to minimize traffic issues. 15 The amendments proposed for the16 IDD District reflect the College's17 commitment to protect the Wissahickon18 Watershed. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 reduction in watershed engineering2 standards associated with this plan of3 development with the legislation proposed4 today. 16 The Economic Opportunity Plan17 is unique as well. Why? Because it18 covers the development which will occur19 over a multi-phase period, over many,20 many years. The goals set forth in the21 Economic Opportunity Plan are as follows:22 Contract opportunities. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 Master Plan, we've also arranged for2 traffic studies; I will not present them3 today in the interest of time. 7 I would respectfully request a8 suspension of the rules. 13 With that, let me introduce14 Peter Saylor to make a brief presentation15 to the committee. 17
If you18 could, please identify yourself for the19 record and then proceed with your20 presentation.21
My name is Peter22 Saylor. 4 Shown on the screen on your5 left is the two parcels of the Master6 Plan. On the upper portion is that7 original portion of the Chestnut Hill8 College. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 vibrant campus and a strategic size to be2 viable. 9 Of importance is that the10 existing campus along the Wissahickon, as11 shown by these slides, has been severely12 handicapped by the flood plain and the13 flooding of the existing flat flood areas14 where parking now exists under those15 waterways in severe rain storms. 21 And you can see in this slide22 some adjacent areas. Our firm's been23 working with Andrew Pogan, which worked24 at the Morris Arboretum. 6 Of importance in the Master7 Plan is the presentation of the concept8 of zoning envelopes. These have been9 developed in conjunction with the10 community. 19 It has a parking garage heeled in under20 the existing surface area in front of21 Fournier Hall, provides for over 50022 cars, and provides a platform upon which23 the new building can be built. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 place. 7 It's important that these two8 sites, which embrace the Wissahickon,9 each contribute to the natural and10 important ecology of the site. The11 College has committed to the restoration12 of the woodlands, the reforestation of13 the understories, and the severe open14 space easements, as described15 This campus, on two hills, will16 unify the existing campus scene on the17 top right and the new Sugarloaf Campus on18 the left. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 great concern of the community here at2 the end of the new bridge that was put in3 on Germantown Avenue some years ago. 17
Thank you18 very much. It's a shame you didn't come19 better prepared.20 (Laughter.)21
It's that22 Catholic-school upbringing.23 (Laughter.)24
3 SISTER VALE: I'm Sister Carol4 Jean Vale. I'm a sister of St. 9 Within the past eight years,10 the College has successfully transitioned11 from a women's college to a coeducational12 institution, nearly tripling our13 undergraduate population. 17 Established in 1924 as an18 undergraduate liberal arts college for19 women, we expanded in 1969 to meet the20 needs of area adults to either begin or21 complete a college education. 2 The College is a founding3 member of Graduate! Philadelphia, the4 Mayor's initiative to educate adults in5 Philadelphia who have not completed6 college. 19 More than 1,000 Philadelphia20 residents attended one of our three21 schools this past year. 13 Students in Emlen Elementary and Fitler14 Academics Plus have benefited directly15 from the efforts of Dr. Jessica Kahn,16 Professor of Education and Technology at17 Chestnut Hill College. 4 Our commitment to diversity is5 evident in the student population6 enrolled at Chestnut Hill. 11 Diversity among faculty and12 staff fluctuates, with greater13 representation at different periods of14 time. Faculty diversity currently stands15 at 14 percent, and staff development at 716 percent. 4 As the campus grows, additional5 tax dollars will be added to the6 Philadelphia wage-tax base, with a7 projected 159 percent in faculty and 188 percent or more in staff. 21
Thank you22 very much for your testimony and for your23 wonderfully prepared testimony and24 presentation.25 48 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 Before I recognize Councilwoman2 Miller, I'd like to acknowledge the fact3 that Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds-Brown4 is in attendance and a member of the5 committee.6 And the Chair recognizes7 Councilwoman Miller.8
Thank9 you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.10 Good morning, everyone.11 PANEL MEMBERS: Good morning.12
You know,13 I just want to have a few comments and14 just recognize how I believe -- I've15 worked with you now for 15 years, and16 I've always believed you were a good17 neighbor, you cared about what you were18 doing in your part of town, and I think19 you're just a good education and economic20 partner to Philadelphia.21 And I totally understand the22 need for expansion. And I think that23 when you made the decision to go coed, it24 was a good decision. You know, at first,25 49 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 I was like, Oh, you know, will men really2 want to come to Chestnut Hill College?3 But they do.4 So I just wanted to make these5 brief comments. And it's to see you here6 this morning. We've been working on this7 now for 18 months. It's a long time of8 meeting with the community group, and I9 think that both groups, both, you know,10 the community coalition and Chestnut Hill11 has been honorable and has really tried12 to do the right thing for the13 neighborhood.14 So with that, thank you.15 Thank you, Mr. Chair.16
Thank you19 very much.20 Any other questions for these21 witnesses?22 Councilwoman Brown, do you have23 a comment you'd like to make?24
Yes.25 50 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.2 Good morning. Good morning.3 PANEL MEMBERS: Good morning.4
Let me5 underscore the observation made by6 Chairman Kenney on the comprehensiveness7 of your presentation and the details,8 which we try to pay a lot of attention9 to.10 I do not want it to go11 unrecognized about the relationship you12 are actively engaging the area of13 Philadelphia public schools; that matters14 to us in this body. And to see that you15 have created a bridge there is16 commendable.17 I would like for you to18 elaborate on that portion of your19 testimony where you spoke about -- and20 I'll try to take the quote as given:21 Devoted to working with union labor. I22 don't want to misrepresent your23 statement.24 So just elaborate on what that25 51 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 means, because that is still a pervasive2 unresolved issue for us as a city to3 encourage, persuade members of our labor4 community to help make construction sites5 look like Philadelphia.6 So is there anything additional7 you have in mind to change that reality?8
Councilwoman, if I9 may, the purpose of the Economic10 Opportunity Plan that is a companion to11 this legislation, should it pass, is12 intended to create diversity in the13 construction sector of this project as14 well as in the design sector and15 contracting of this project.16
Exactly. I will19 let Sister speak to the operational20 aspects, but I didn't want to address the21 fact that the construction of the campus,22 as proposed, will be done with trades,23 but recognizing that the general24 contractor and the trades must obligate25 52 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 themselves to the provisions and the2 parameters set forth in the Economic3 Opportunity Plan in the construction4 sector as well as the design sector.5
Okay,6 then. Thank you.7 Please, Madam President?8 SISTER VALE: All of our major9 projects to date have been conducted with10 the participation of union labor, and I'm11 simply stating that we will continue that12 practice.13 The major buildings -- Martino14 Hall, Fitzsimmons Hall, the renovation of15 the lodge, the new elevators that we're16 putting in right now. When we retiled17 our considerably large amount of18 terracotta roofs, when we put in a new19 boiler plant, all of that was done with20 union labor.21 So I am simply indicating that22 that practice will not change.23
Okay. And24 I should not be misunderstood. We25 53 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 support that.2 The additional issue, in3 addition to supporting union labor, is4 what stipulations, what provisions do you5 have in your EOP plan that makes it plain6 that we want members of the construction7 teams to be diverse?8 SISTER VALE: I believe9 Mr. Kelson testified that we're looking10 to include 35 to 25 percent of the labor11 hired: 25 MBE, 8 percent WBE, and 212 percent DSBE.13
Okay, all14 right. So that's on the record.15 SISTER VALE: That's right.16 And that's in the plan that we submitted.17 COUNCILWOMAN BROWN:18 Additionally for the record, are there19 monitoring checkpoints in place to ensure20 that what's in writing will ultimately21 exist?22 SISTER VALE: That would come23 under the responsibility vested in the24 Vice President for Financial Affairs and25 54 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 the Physical Plant Committee of the Board2 of Directors.3
In addition,5 Councilwoman, the Economic Opportunity6 Plan does have reporting requirements,7 and they are set forth in the plan, using8 third-party agencies for compliance9 monitoring.10
Okay,11 then. Thank you for that.12 My final question is, you13 mentioned how you have a process whereby14 student-teachers can have experiences in15 urban schools. Is there, in the16 curriculum of the education diploma at17 Chestnut Hill College, a course that18 talks about urban education? which is a19 very different curriculum and experience20 in teaching and training than is21 education as a global concept.22 SISTER VALE: Part of teacher23 education in Chestnut Hill College is a24 seminar that students must take as25 55 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 they're involved in student-teaching, and2 those various issues would be addressed3 through that seminar to help them through4 the process when they're actually5 involved in urban schools or suburban6 schools.7
Okay. I8 raise that because, too often, in our9 public schools, we have young people,10 recent college grads, who show up eager11 and enthusiastic, and want to contribute,12 and then they're hit with the realities13 of urban education, which has another14 additional set of challenges; and, thus,15 they leave the system.16 So to the extent that schools17 can prepare young people, armed before18 they leave the college campus with what19 those realities are, the School District20 and parochial schools as well do a better21 job at holding on to those young22 professionals.23 SISTER VALE: Thank you for24 that observation. It's very important.25 56 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021
Thank you7 very much.8 Any other questions for these9 witnesses?10 I know Councilwoman Miller has11 some questions when all of the folks12 involved have testified, but are there13 any other questions for these particular14 witnesses?15 (No questions.)16
Seeing17 none, thank you so much for your good18 work that you've done over the years.19 PANEL MEMBERS: Thank you very20 much.21
Mr. Robert22 Vance, Larry McEwan, and Carol23 Fitzgerald, please.24 And I assume, Mr. Kelson, that25 57 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 you -- your folks will stay around in2 case we have any --3
Good9 morning. Ms. Fitzgerald, could you10 please identify yourself for the record11 and proceed. And please pull that12 microphone very close to you. Thank you.13
Councilman17 Kenney and members of the Rules18 Committee, my name is Carol Fitzgerald.19 I reside in Chestnut Hill and have20 resided there for most of my life, since21 1970, at 201 Rex Avenue, just about five22 blocks away from Chestnut Hill College.23 I'm a board member of Chestnut24 Hill College, and I am here today to25 58 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 testify in support of Bill No. 110302 and2 Bill No. 110377, both of which would3 allow for the development of the Master4 Plan of Chestnut Hill College, which has5 been presented to you so well this6 morning.7 The Master Plan for the College8 that has been presented today proposes a9 significant number of changes and10 improvements to our campus. Our plan was11 revised and redesigned, with the benefit12 of detailed community input over an13 18-month period of time.14 While it is certainly true that15 our plan promotes the expansion and16 growth of Chestnut Hill College, it also17 reflects a sensitive treatment of our18 campus that respects the use and19 enjoyment of neighboring properties.20 While new buildings will be21 constructed on the campus over the life22 of the plan, as you can see from our23 presentation, significant portions of the24 site will remain or be returned to their25 59 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 natural state as an important part of the2 development of the Master Plan.3 These improvements as well as4 the limitations on development imposed in5 the legislation respect the fact that the6 College is not located in a dense urban7 setting, and the good neighbor policy of8 Chestnut Hill College is reflected9 therein.10 Chestnut Hill College has been11 an important and active member of the12 Chestnut Hill community since 1924. We13 expect to remain engaged in the community14 as we grow and as we continue our mission15 into the foreseeable future. But in16 order for Chestnut Hill College to17 continue as a viable educational18 institution, we must expand our19 educational housing and student-activity20 facilities.21 The improvements indicated in22 the Master Plan allow the College to23 thrive and to compete with other24 similarly-situated educational25 60 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 institutions. It is also important to2 recognize that the expansion of our3 educational housing and student-activity4 facilities will also benefit the5 community in that this expansion will6 generate additional employment7 opportunities as the new buildings are8 completed.9 Many educational institutions10 in the City of Philadelphia have11 constructed new campus facilities over12 the past several years in an effort to13 provide new or better opportunities for14 their student populations. These15 institutions have come before City16 Council to seek your approval for various17 aspects of campus improvements.18 It's time for Chestnut Hill19 College to follow their lead. The20 approval of the legislation before21 Council today is an important early step22 in our efforts. Chestnut Hill College23 must evolve, and we need your support of24 this legislation to do so.25 61 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 Thank you.2
Thank you3 for your testimony.4 Either of you gentlemen like to5 proceed please identify yourself for the6 record.7 MR. McEWAN: Good morning8 Councilman Kenney and members of the9 committee.10
Good11 morning.12 MR. McEWAN: I'm Lawrence13 McEwan, Chair of the nine voting-member14 seven organization coalition negotiating15 group created through a resolution of the16 Chestnut Hill Community Association Board17 of Directors.18 Our charge over the past 1819 months has been to negotiate Chestnut20 Hill College's development of their new21 Sugarloaf Campus and existing Main Campus22 in a manner appropriate for Chestnut23 Hill's national historic district located24 within the beautiful and sensitive25 62 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 natural environment of the Wissahickon2 Valley.3 Concentrating first on the4 College's Master Plan for the Sugarloaf5 Campus, we intervened to enact desired6 changes that have led to plan, which was7 recently approved by the Planning8 Commission and which has served as the9 basis of the bills before you today.10 While our negotiating group has11 not voted on an official position12 regarding these bills and while certain13 of our member organizations may speak14 against them today, I am accompanied by15 and/or speaking for seven voting16 representatives in five member17 organizations who support the18 unprecedented revisions to the IDD19 Ordinance, Bill 110377, which have been20 outlined by Mr. Kelson and which were, as21 he stated, crafted in a collaborative22 manner with members of our negotiating23 group.24 These voting members of the25 63 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 negotiating group in support of these2 bills today and of moving approvals3 forward before Council recesses for4 summer are:5 Richard Snowden, Board Member6 of the Chestnut Hill Business7 Association;8 Frank Niepold, Board President9 of the Chestnut Hill Historical Society;10 James Keiss, Representative for11 the Houston family;12 Maura McCarty, Executive13 Director of the Friends of the14 Wissahickon;15 Joyce Linhard, Board Member of16 the CHCA;17 Craig Schelter, Representative18 of the CHCA;19 And myself, Chair of this20 committee and of the Development Review21 Committee of the CHCA.22 Now I'd like to introduce23 Robert Vance, Board President of the24 Friends of the Wissahickon, and an25 64 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 invaluable member of our negotiating2 group, to more fully discuss the status3 of our negotiations from his4 organization's perspective.5 Thank you.6
2 That being said, it is3 important that the committee know that4 this project does not concern just5 Chestnut Hill; rather, this project is of6 extreme importance to all Philadelphians7 because the Wissahickon contributes8 drinking water to about one-third of the9 City, including all of the northwest and10 some of Center City. 15 As you all know, the16 Wissahickon Watershed ordinance, which is17 a part of the Zoning Code, imposes18 controls on development within the19 Wissahickon Watershed. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 other means, limiting development on2 steep slopes and limiting the amount of3 impervious cover. 11 For the last 18 months, as12 Mr. McEwan has stated, a coalition of13 neighborhood groups has negotiated with14 the College in an effort to arrive at a15 global settlement that would allow the16 College to develop Sugarloaf and the Main17 Campus consistent with the community's18 desire to ensure environmentally19 sensitive development and the protection20 and enhancement of Chestnut Hill's21 identity and historic fabric. 16 It is the fourth component, however, that17 is problematic. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 from the Wissahickon Watershed2 requirements regarding building on steep3 slopes and impervious cover. 12 The College has committed to do13 so; let me be clear about that. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 has informed the College that it will let2 the College know about its decision about3 whether it will give consent for the4 easements on June 17th. 16 Despite all of this, the17 Friends of the Wissahickon and the other18 organizations mentioned by Mr. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 for final passage until the Council's2 June 23rd meeting. 13 Now, the amendment to that FOW14 proposes, which is contained in the sheet15 that I hope was distributed to you,16 reflects the fact that in connection with17 the purchase of Sugarloaf, Chestnut Hill18 College received a grant from the19 Pennsylvania Department of Conservation20 and Natural Resources as part of that21 organization's Growing Greener Grants22 program. 3 Again, I want to reiterate that4 the College has agreed to do so but5 cannot make good on that promise unless6 it receives consent from Wells Fargo. We7 believe that amending Bill No. 11 I want to emphasize that FOW is12 not attempting to prevent the College13 from expanding and has no interest in any14 action litigation whatsoever related to15 the passage of these two bills. 15
Thank you16 very much for your testimony.17 Councilwoman Miller.18 Oh, I'm sorry. Mr. Previdi,19 please.20 (Witness comes forward.)21
11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 Hill. 11 Unfortunately, we have lost two12 of these projects and are endangering a13 third if we don't speak up. 17 It's time for the community and18 our community leaders to take charge and19 speak out about the future of Chestnut20 Hill development. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 21st century global economy. 17 I have seen neighbors employ bully18 tactics and threaten lawsuits and scream19 and shout at meetings like children. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 President, has changed the design based2 on the near-neighbor input. 8 This group has been meeting for9 over 18 months, redesigning the project10 to concentrate the development to the11 middle of the property, preserving open12 space around the perimeter. 15 In the same ad, the public was16 invited to attend an open community17 meeting to join for a discussion of the18 issues at St. 21 So they have this meeting at22 St. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 of the negotiating group were asked not2 to speak. 9 I think that's enough said10 right there. 12
Thank you13 very much for your testimony.14 Any questions for this15 witnesses?16 (No questions.)17
Anyone else18 in the room to testify on this bill?19 Please come forward.20 (Witness comes forward.)21
My name is William24 Lamb, and I have been a near neighbor of25 78 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 Chestnut Hill College for the better part2 of three generations. I live at 95013 Meadowbrook, which borders the Morris4 Arboretum, and grew up and spent most of5 my youth at 9500 Wheel Pump Lane, the6 adjacent property to that.7 I have come to know the Sisters8 of St. Joseph over my lifetime and have9 witnessed the expansion and development10 of their college as it has happened11 mostly during my tenure as an adult in12 Chestnut Hill. Sister Carol Jean has13 proven herself to be a very dynamic14 leader and vital to our community.15 Not only that, but the16 negotiations that have occurred over the17 last 18 months have been carried out at18 great expense by Chestnut Hill College in19 an effort to make my neighbors satisfied20 with a plan that is essential to the21 development not only of Chestnut Hill22 College but the further economic growth23 and sustainability of Chestnut Hill's24 community.25 79 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 For too long, our near2 neighbors have failed to recognize that3 the only way Chestnut Hill can sustain4 itself as the bucolic northwest section5 of Philadelphia that it is, is to support6 the two main institutions that we have at7 our disposal: Chestnut Hill Hospital and8 Chestnut Hill College.9 It is incumbent on me to come10 here today. I respectfully address the11 committee and ask for your approval of12 this bill.13 I feel very passionate about14 our faith in Chestnut Hill as a15 community, but, more importantly, about16 Chestnut Hill College as a vital17 contributor to the success of that18 community.19 Thank you very much.20
Thank you21 for your testimony.22 Sir, please come forward.23 (Witness comes forward.)24
Please25 80 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 identify yourself for the record.2
I am George3 Thomas. I am a resident of 95154 Germantown Avenue in the sort of center5 of this zone. And I am the Vice6 President of the Northwest Wissahickon7 Conservancy, Inc. I am also speaking8 today on behalf of the North Chestnut9 Hill Neighbors, Inc., another community10 association comprised of members of the11 north Chestnut Hill community.12 I am here in opposition to the13 two proposed bills, number 110302 and14 number 110377.15 In the interest of time, I have16 handed in my comments for the record. I17 am also including copies of our group's18 statements to the Philadelphia Planning19 Commission on 19 April and 17 May.20 I am speaking only on behalf of21 these two organizations. Although I am a22 member of the negotiating group that is23 comprised of representatives from a24 number of Chestnut Hill organizations,25 81 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 and it is negotiated with Chestnut Hill2 College for the past 18 months, I am not3 speaking on behalf of that group.4 Moreover, I am not speaking in my5 capacity as a member of that group.6 I am respectfully advising7 Council that no votes have been taken by8 the negotiating group authorizing any9 individual to speak on its behalf, and no10 other person is authorized to speak on11 behalf of our groups, the Northwest12 Wissahickon Conservancy or the North13 Chestnut Hill Neighbors.14 Each of the other organizations15 retains its right to make its own16 statement, but we will object to any17 testimony or statement that purports to18 represent positions of the negotiating19 group.20 Thank you.21
Thank you22 very much for your testimony.23 Anyone else? Come on down.24 (Witness comes forward.)25 82 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021
11 I appear before you on behalf12 of my client Professor Eleanor Morris,13 ower or her home and adjoining carriage14 house with an address of 31 West Bells15 Mills Road. 19 I speak to you in opposition to20 both Ordinance No. 110302 and 100377. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 of individuals who will be most directly2 impacted by the proposed development of3 Chestnut Hill College. 12 I understand that significant13 efforts have been made to negotiate a14 community development agreement and15 related easements, which, in theory, will16 place additional controls upon the extent17 of permitted development on the subject18 parcel. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 I want to note in particular2 one item that has not been raised yet3 today, which is, my client enjoys an4 easement over a portion of the subject5 property. While the College has proposed6 to relocate the easement, my client has7 not yet agreed to the relocation. 11 As to Ordinance No. 110302, I12 believe that a much better approach would13 be for the committee to table it in order14 to allow continued negotiations to occur15 through the summer so that the community16 development agreement, new easements, and17 the relocation of the existing easement18 can be finalized. 23 As to Bill No. 11 - RULES - BILL 110377, 1103021 portions of the ordinance which propose2 to amend Section 14-1109(e)(6) through3 (8) of the Philadelphia Code. 14 I want to point out two things15 that came up in testimony. Mr. Kramer16 talked about, quote, the ecological17 sensitivity of the area, and Mr. 20 Despite the important ecology21 of the site, these sections clearly22 constitute illegal spot zoning. 4 To amend in a piecemeal fashion5 through an ordinance like the one you6 have for your consideration is clearly7 not permitted by existing Pennsylvania8 precedent. 14
Thank you15 very much for your testimony.16 Anyone else to testify on this17 bill?18 (No response.)19
Seeing20 none, we will now move to Bill No.21 110347, which is an ordinance amending22 Title 14 of the Philadelphia Code,23 entitled "Zoning and Planning," by24 amending Section 14-1605(2)(1) to add25 88 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103471 cash-for-gold establishments to the2 definition of "pawnshop."3 We do handle a wide range of4 issues, don't we?5 (Witness comes forward.)6
Good morning,7 Councilman Kenney and members of the8 Rules Committee.9
I am William12 Kramer, Division Director of the13 Development and Planning Division of the14 Philadelphia City Planning Commission. I15 am here today to testify on Bill No.16 110347, which was introduced by17 Councilmember Clarke May 5th of 2011.18 Bill No. 110347 amends the19 Philadelphia Zoning Code by amending20 Section 14-1605 to, one, add cash-21 for-gold establishments to the definition22 of "pawnshop."23 The definition, as introduced,24 will read: "The purchase of personal25 89 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103471 property either from an individual or2 another pawn business, with the expressed3 intent of offering the property for4 resale, including cash for gold or5 similar operations."6 The bill was introduced in7 order to regulate the new type of8 business, cash for gold, that does not9 easily fit into an existing definition.10 The language in the legislation, upon11 review by the Department of Licenses and12 Inspections, was felt to have the13 unintended consequence of applying to all14 new jewelry stores in the City.15 The staff of the Philadelphia16 City Planning Commission has worked with17 the Department of Licenses and18 Inspections to recommend a revision to19 the bill to read as follows:20 "The purchase of personal21 property either from an individual or22 another pawn business, with an expressed23 intent of offering the property for24 resale."25 90 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103471 And another definition would be2 added: "The purchase of precious metals3 such as a cash-for-gold type operation,4 excluding the purchase of precious metals5 conducted at wholesale."6 The intent of the new language7 will impact stores engaging in the buying8 of precious metals for cash while9 exempting legitimate businesses engaged10 primarily in the selling of jewelry.11 The proposed amendment has been12 vetted through the City's Law Department,13 and I respectfully submit it for your14 consideration.15 At its meeting of May 17, 2011,16 the Philadelphia City Planning Commission17 considered Bill No. 110347 and18 recommended that it be approved with the19 proposed amendments.20 That concludes my testimony,21 and I'd be happy to answer any questions22 you may have.23
Thank you.24 Have you vetted the amendments25 91 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103471 with the sponsor of the bill? Have you2 had a discussion with him?3
I personally have4 not, and I'm not sure if my staff did or5 not. We've had a few issue in the6 office.7
Unfortunately, we9 lost a member recently and it's made a10 bit of a mess of things.11
Okay, all12 right. Thank you for your testimony.13 Any questions for this witness?14 (No questions.)15
Is there16 anyone else to testify on this bill?17 (No response.)18
Seeing19 none, the next bill for consideration is20 Bill No. 110185, which is an ordinance21 amending the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by22 changing the zoning designation of23 certain areas of land located within the24 area bounded by Richmond Street,25 92 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 Cumberland Street, Beach Street and2 Schirra Drive; and amending Section3 14-506 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled4 "L4-Limited Industrial District," all5 under certain terms and conditions.6 Mr. Kramer, please identify7 yourself for the record.8
Good morning,9 Councilman Kenney and members of the10 Rules Committee.11
I am William14 Kramer, Division Director of the15 Development Division of the Philadelphia16 City Planning Commission. I am here17 today to testify on Bill No. 110185,18 which was introduced into City Council19 March 10, 2011.20 Bill No. 110185 will amend the21 Philadelphia Zoning Maps by rezoning the22 area bounded by Richmond Street,23 Cumberland Street, Beach Street, and24 Schirra Drive from the existing25 93 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 designation of G2-General Industrial to a2 proposed zoning designation of L-43 limited industrial.4 The bill also proposes to amend5 the Zoning Code so that within these6 boundaries, nightclubs and dance halls7 would be permitted and allow for parking8 to be provided onsite or within a9 thousand feet from the lot at a ratio of10 one space for every 125 square feet of11 gross floor area, with no landscaping12 required.13 The purpose of this bill is to14 allow for the rehabilitation of an15 existing 76,000-square-foot warehouse16 located at 2055 Richmond Street into an17 entertainment venue. The venue will have18 a capacity of 2600 to 3,000 people and be19 operated by Live Nation, Incorporated.20 The intent is to hold events21 such as bands, comedy shows, theater22 performances, corporate events, and23 private events. The ground floor of24 28,000 square feet will contain a box25 94 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 office, retail store, lounge, stage,2 concession area, back of stage, and3 artist areas.4 There will also be a5 6,000-square-foot mezzanine to house a6 wraparound balcony, restrooms, additional7 concession areas, and luxury boxes.8 There will be 130 parking9 spaces onsite as well as an additional10 520 parking spaces under lease on a11 separate parcel within the area bounded12 by Richmond, Cumberland Street, Beach13 Street, and Schirra Drive.14 The Philadelphia City Planning15 Commission, at its meeting of April 19,16 2010, considered Bill No. 110185 and17 recommended that it be approved. The18 Commission views Cumberland as a line of19 demarcation between the industrial uses20 to the north and the transitioning uses21 to the south such as the entertainment22 venue proposed here.23 The proposed L4-Industrial24 zoning classification recognizes this25 95 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 transition zone by permitting a mix of2 industrial and commercial uses.3 The City's Law Department has4 requested a technical amendment to the5 language of this bill, and I respectfully6 submit it for your consideration.7 That is the conclusion of my8 testimony. If there are any questions,9 I'd be happy to answer them.10
Thank you.15 Any questions for Mr. Kramer?16 (No questions.)17 (Witnesses come forward.)18
Please19 identify yourself for the record and20 proceed, whoever's going to offer21 testimony.22
Ronald3 Patterson, attorney with Klehr Harrison4 law firm, here on behalf of Grasso5 Holdings. With me today is David Grasso6 and Mike Grozier from Live Nation.7 This ordinance was originally8 proposed to change the zoning district9 from G2-General Industrial to10 C3-Commercial, with relief from the north11 Delaware Avenue overlay. But as we12 conferenced with the Planning Commission13 and as Mr. Kramer mentioned, it was more14 appropriate to go to L-4, which allows15 both the mix of industrial and16 commercial.17 With that in mind, it allows18 the existing industrial uses to remain on19 that block as well as allow what our20 proposed entertainment venue would be as21 well as other commercial uses.22 It also lifts the North23 Delaware Avenue Overlay to allow for the24 entertainment use, which uses are25 97 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 permitted along this corridor, which2 Councilman DiCicco had imposed years ago3 to rid the block of so-called nightclubs.4 We seek this ordinance to allow5 for the development of a first-class6 entertainment venue run by Live Nation.7 It would have 2600 seats approximately.8 We believe that this is a9 perfect location. It's located and10 bordered to the west by I-95 and to the11 east by 30 vacant acres, which were12 recently rezoned in 2009 from G-2 to C-3.13 I don't know if there's any14 proposed development for that no-man's15 land property, but there is an existing16 permit for warehousing on the property,17 but it was rezoned to C-3. And I believe18 the owner of that property is here in19 opposition to this ordinance.20 Our entire site spans two-21 thirds of the entire block, about 1222 acres. It's bounded by Richmond Street,23 Cumberland Street, Beach Street, and24 Schirra Drive.25 98 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 There are three lots.2 Basically, Lot 1 would be our main3 entertainment venue; it will house the4 entertainment. It's an existing building5 that would be cut back to provide for a6 front yard area to allow for drop-off and7 pickup of patrons, a box office, and some8 other commercial uses.9 It would create 34,000 square10 feet of a concert hall, that you'll see11 through our slide presentation that you12 have, that has the ability to change in13 seating based upon what type of event is14 being proposed. It's a concert hall with15 one floor and a mezzanine wrapped around.16 It is by no means a nightclub,17 as you may hear, the sense of what18 everyone has feared years ago and was the19 basis for the overlay. It is for sure an20 entertainment venue having live21 performances.22 The other two lots, one of23 which we own and the other of which we24 will lease, will add to the ability to25 99 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 provide off-street parking to accommodate2 the facility. So in total, we have3 approximately 650 parking spaces onsite,4 off the street.5 The ordinance provides that we6 are required to provide one space for7 every 125 square feet of gross floor8 area. And based on our 34,000 square9 feet, our requirement under the code10 would be 227. And as I mentioned, we are11 providing 650 parking spaces.12 And although we haven't13 factored it in, actually, on Beach14 Street -- and we need to recognize it --15 there are approximately 250 spaces that16 are available on the street. Again, we17 didn't factor that into our operation but18 we recognize it and we would incorporate19 that into the operations.20 As to traffic circulation, we21 recognize that we are at the base of the22 I-95 interchange, and that will be23 undergoing construction. We are taking24 that into account and have designed25 100 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 around that so that we can adopt our2 onsite traffic circulation to accommodate3 the uses.4 My Exhibit 5 also includes our5 equal opportunity plan, and you have6 other exhibits there which explain the7 project.8 With that said, I introduce9 David Grasso.10
Good morning,13 councilman Kenney and members of the14 Rules Committee.15
8 The site is ideally located in9 an area both relatively isolated yet10 extremely accessible. As you can see11 from the area photographs in your12 information package, which we presented13 to you, the neighboring properties of the14 site, include industrial uses, vacant15 commercial land, and the I-9516 interchange. 14 On a daily basis, people can be15 observed drag-racing, riding ATVs along16 the street in the vacant former Pinnacle17 site. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 You'll note in your packet,2 towards the end, there's a picture of the3 rear -- of Beach Street, which was taken4 this past weekend, showing a burnt-out5 car and generally a pretty uninviting6 place. 7 Not only will the proposed8 entertainment venue act to clean up the9 areas adjacent to the site, it will also10 act as a magnet, attracting additional11 commercial and entertainment uses to the12 waterfront such as restaurants and13 retail. 17 Notwithstanding that, the venue18 has been designed to be extremely19 flexible in its audience to20 configurations, allowing for different21 types of events. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 venue, a dinner theater, as well as other2 configurations. 10 The venue will be leased to and11 operated by Live Nation Worldwide, the12 world's leading concert-promotion and13 management company. In this region14 alone, Live Nation owns and operates the15 TLA Theater on South Street, the Tower16 Theater in Upper Darby, the Susquehanna17 Bank Center in Camden. Live Nation also18 books and operates the Festival Pier,19 which is owned by the City, at Columbus20 Boulevard and Spring Garden Street. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 control. 5 We feel confident that this6 amount of parking will accommodate most7 events at the venue. However, there are8 approximately 250 unregulated parking9 spaces on the neighboring Beach Street10 directly behind the property and adjacent11 to the vacant behind the venue. 16 The owner of the 30-acre former17 Pinnacle site has raised concerns over18 access to his property in the unlikely19 event that he develops his property into20 industrial uses in the near future. 16 Early in the process, the17 Commission did a traffic study to assess18 the impact of our development on the19 surrounding intersections. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 the level of service at the surrounding2 intersection. This is primarily due to3 the fact that the peak hours of operation4 for the venue correspond to off-peak5 times for normal traffic. 9 During the period of10 construction of the I-95 improvements,11 there will be periods of time when12 detours to the I-95 ramps will be13 initiated by PennDOT. 14 First and foremost will be the creation15 of approximately 300 new jobs. 8 Also, the project will help9 clean up a blighted and dangerous part of10 the City while attracting future positive11 development along the waterfront, which12 we believe is consistent with the13 Waterfront Master Plan. 2 The Old Richmond Civic3 Association was provided with materials4 on the venue prior to the September 28,5 2010, neighborhood meeting. 7 We participated in numerous8 community events where the venue was9 introduced to the community: Girard Fest10 in September of last year; Philadelphia11 Film and Music Festival; Lehigh Arts12 Festival. 22 This is an economic-development23 project that this part of the waterfront24 has needed for many years. 11
Thank you12 very much.13 Please identify yourself for14 the record.15
Yes. My name is16 Michael Grozier. I'm the Executive Vice17 President of Clubs and Theaters for Live18 Nation. I'm a Philly kid running amok in19 Los Angeles and am very excited to be20 back here today.21 I oversee 37 venues around the22 country; some larger, some smaller than23 the proposed Richmond site. We think24 this a great opportunity both for us and25 117 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 for the City to continue to enhance2 Philadelphia's reputation as one of the3 greatest premier live-music cities in the4 country.5 You know, I think, as a6 founding member of House of Blues as well7 as my current role, we take great pride8 in being assets to the community. We9 work hard to be good neighbors and10 positive additions.11 As a matter of just comparison,12 we have about 460 sites at the pier --13 excuse me, about 460 parking spots at the14 pier for 6,000 people, so we -- or at the15 Festival Pier, excuse me. So I think the16 parking situation is a tremendous one.17 The barrier with 95, I think, is also a18 great asset to this project.19 And we think that, you know, we20 would be great partners with the City and21 great partners with the neighborhood and22 look forward to the opportunity to prove23 that to you in the future.24
Thank you25 118 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 for your testimony.2 Councilman Greenlee.3
Thank4 you, Mr. Chairman. Just a couple quick5 questions here just so I'm clear on6 something.7 Mr. Kramer, I know you said in8 your testimony that the bill also9 proposes to amend the Zoning Code. So10 within these boundaries, nightclubs and11 dance halls would be permitted. And I12 know the description of this is that it's13 not a nightclub.14 But nightclubs would be how15 allowed in this zoning classification?16
The way the bill17 was constructed, it would do in fact18 that.19
Yeah. William25 119 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 Kramer, Division Director of Development2 and Planning for the Planning Commission3 of the City of Philadelphia.4 The reason for this is, there's5 no definition for "entertainment venue"6 as a different -- or a differentiated use7 in the code.8
Therefore, when10 this would be presented to the Department11 of Licenses and Inspections for permits,12 it would be classified as a nightclub13 entertainment venue. There is no14 distinction between the two.15 So technically, in order to16 grant relief, you have to then -- yes,17 it's a risk that that's a possibility,18 but the proposal on the table is what it19 is.20
I21 understand, mm-hmm, okay. I just wanted22 to be clear.23 And one other thing, and maybe24 the Councilman can answer this. I see25 120 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 just on looking at this one neighborhood2 zoning and uses and I'm looking -- I'm3 trying to figure out where the closest4 residence would be to this.5 And I know everything is on the6 other side of 95; I understand that.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: If memory8 serves me correct, I think it was 9009 feet to the rear of the closest10 residence, which is on the other side of11 I-95.12
All13 right. Is that like Salmon Street there?14 I'm just trying to...15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah, I16 think it's Salmon.17
Councilman --20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Is that21 accurate, Mr. Patterson?22
I think it's23 about a thousand feet.24 I just wanted to mention, you25 121 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 know, this issue about a nightclub.2
In order to try7 and narrow and close that box, we, in8 conjunction with Councilman DiCicco,9 prepared a developments agreement that10 hopefully would narrow that -- the11 ability to use the property so that it's12 an entertainment venue and doesn't go13 beyond that.14
Councilman18 DiCicco.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,20 Mr. Chairman.21 I think as -- in addition to22 that, Mr. Patterson, did we not talk23 about a conditional license as part of24 that benefit agreement?25 122 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851
Yes, we did, a2 conditional licensing agreement that3 would be attached to and made part of the4 LCB license.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Which6 means if they decided to change the use7 from what is being proposed, they would8 have to go through that entire9 reapplication process for a liquor10 license all over again.11
So it's two12 levels of --13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah, and14 that's something that's been very15 successful in Old City and other places16 where we've had some issues in the past.17 I just have a question, and I18 know it's going to come up, I believe,19 with Mr. Anderson, who came to see me a20 few weeks ago about the on-street21 parking, the 250 or so spaces.22 Are they essential to your23 development project?24
They are not25 123 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 essential; they're overflow.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: All right.3 And that came about -- that decision for4 possibly providing for on-street parking5 came as a result of your conversations6 with the Planning Commission, Streets7 Department? How did that all come about?8
Well, the way it9 began was -- I mean, the parking is10 there, and people are going to use it.11 You know, there's no -- it's a public12 street, and I don't have the ability to13 restrict people from using that parking.14 So we figure we might as -- we15 better clean it up and make sure it's16 safe. And that's what -- that's how it17 began -- the discussions began with the18 Streets Department and the Parking19 Authority.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah. I21 just want to establish that it is a22 public street; there are no parking23 restrictions currently.24
None.25 124 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So if2 anyone wanted to parking there, even3 today, they can park there.4
That's correct.6 And we also explored different parking7 configurations, whether they be parallel8 or angle parking.9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah. I'm10 familiar with that configuration.11 Did the Planning Commission12 have any -- I spoke to Alan Greenberger13 last night about that on-street parking.14 Would you, just for the record --15
Yes, we have.16 William Kramer again, Division Director17 of Planning.18 The discussions that have held19 with regards to this have indicated to20 the Commission that this parking does21 exist. However, I would add that in22 terms of evaluation from the zoning23 perspective, zoning sort of ends at the24 property lines, and then the streets25 125 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 lines are a whole different animal2 covered under the Streets Code and3 subsequently not a part of the4 consideration for providing parking.5 So we don't on a technical6 level consider it, but we recognize that7 it's there, and we did present it to the8 Commission as such. Mr. Greenberger and9 I did discuss this yesterday. There are10 some concerns about, as the gentlemen11 pointed out, cleaning it up, lighting it,12 making sure that that happens.13 And the possibility exists --14 and that would come under the15 jurisdiction of the Streets Department in16 terms of setting whatever restrictions17 may be needed or not.18 At the moment, it is a public,19 open street.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay.21 Thank you.22 I don't believe I have any23 other questions, Mr. Chairman, at this24 time.25 126 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851
Thank you2 very much.3 Any more questions for these4 witnesses?5 Councilmember Clarke.6
Thank you7 Mr. Chairman.8 Good afternoon. Good morning.9 A couple of questions --10 actually, several.11 First, Mr. Grasso, thank you12 for continue to be willing to develop in13 the City of Philadelphia. You know, you14 and I know each other from other projects15 that you've worked on.16 But I find myself again in a17 situation where there's a development18 that's in Councilman DiCicco's district19 whom we border, and a number of the20 residents live in the district that I21 represent; in this case, on the other22 side of I-95.23 And so, I find myself in it in24 a little different level than some of the25 127 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 other Councilmembers on this committee,2 so I have to ask some questions with3 respects to its impact.4 During the course of the casino5 debate, you know, I was intimately6 involved with my colleague and friend7 Councilman DiCicco because of the8 closeness of the development to the9 site -- not to suggest that, one, this is10 a development that's of the size and11 magnitude of the casino; it's clearly not12 going to make as much money as the13 casino, and I know you wish it would.14 But as a result of that project15 when we did the casino, there was a group16 put together that involved community17 people, community groups, individuals,18 and City folks that dealt with traffic,19 police; I see the captain here.20 That group put people at a --21 somewhat at a comfort level because we22 knew, during the course of the planning23 and then subsequently the construction24 and then the operation, that there would25 128 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 be some ongoing discussion as it related2 to its impact on the local community.3 So my first question is: Has4 something like that been put together or5 been discussed, that there would be some6 level of an entity that would walk us7 through this process on a very, very8 local level?9
When we met --10 when I met with the Fishtown Neighbors11 Association, that was one of the things I12 proposed, was to form a group, a13 coalition, if you will, of myself, the14 venue manager, the local police captain,15 representatives from all of the affected16 neighborhood groups. And I proposed it,17 and no one seemed to be interested in it.18
I guess I19 would have to ask the Councilperson.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I was at a21 number of the meetings that Mr. Grasso22 spoke to earlier at the onset of this23 bill back in May or June of last year.24 And there was one meeting that25 129 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 took place, and I think it may have been2 either the Fishtown Neighbors or the3 Girard Coalition, a place in a church on4 Girard Avenue. And that was proposed5 that night.6 What happened was, there was a7 vote that was taken. And unless I'm8 totally inaccurate here, there was a vote9 that was taken by the folks who attended10 that meeting to either support or not11 support this project.12 Well over a hundred people were13 there, if memory serves me correct.14 There was no sign-in sheet; people just15 came in. We had no way of knowing where16 those folks lived. I know some of them17 personally live in Port Richmond because18 I happen to know them, but there were19 many people who I did not know or20 recognize.21 At the end of the meeting,22 after all of these proposals and23 conditions which the applicant was24 willing to put to paper, pen to paper, a25 130 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 vote was taken. And it was 59 people in2 favor -- opposed to the project and 393 against [sic].4 During the course of the5 meeting, at least, at least 30 people6 left before even voting. I can interpret7 that as though they didn't care; maybe8 they supported and maybe they didn't.9 So my point is that it was10 never done in my opinion in a scientific11 way.12 And I think you all know that13 I'm a process person. I take a lot of14 time with legislation, in particular when15 it impacts communities.16 This bill was introduced March17 of last year, which is well over a year18 ago. More recently, I did a hotel19 development at Fourth and Race, which was20 over two years, before we were able to21 get the legislation through Council.22 And I say that because when I23 asked the question of one of the24 representatives -- I believe it was the25 131 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 Fishtown Neighbors -- do you have -- does2 Fishtown Neighbors have a zoning3 committee? because, as you know, many of4 the civics have various committees. His5 answer was no, they just do everything at6 a general membership meeting.7 Now, I'm not condemning that,8 but it's hard to get a sense of who was9 in that room voting when you don't have10 the civic association who is taking a11 major interest, sitting there with the12 zoning committee to make a recommendation13 to the general membership.14 So, again, I -- there could15 have been people who were part of the 59,16 or even the 39, who may have lived ten17 miles away, or maybe they didn't live18 anywhere close.19 So it's a long answer to your20 question. I tried to get the folks to21 understand that there are ways in which22 we can give them protections; the23 community benefits agreement, I think, is24 that. And I have not gotten a signal to25 132 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 do that.2 I am actually on my own,3 encouraged the developer and his attorney4 to prepare a community benefits agreement5 because I do think that they do need6 something in that community to give them7 some level of comfort.8
Thank you,9 Councilman.10 That wasn't quite the answer to11 my question. The question was: Is there12 a group formed, be it an advisory council13 or an oversight committee, that is14 comprised of Fishtown Neighbors15 Kensington South --16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That never17 came out.18 (Indiscernible; parties talking19 over each other.)20
But I'm21 saying that's --22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I23 understand what your question is, but it24 never came about because we couldn't get25 133 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 an agreement for support or even have2 that conversation; we could never get3 there.4 This vote was taken; I think it5 was either September --6
September.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: In8 September. We don't want it. So there9 was no other discussion that I was able10 to engage in.11 I have not gotten a call from12 any of the political leaders or anybody13 in those communities to say, We may be14 against this, but tell us what this15 community benefit agreement would do for16 us, or could do for us.17 I was never able to get to that18 level of conversation.19
So it20 sounds as if you're saying -- I want to21 make sure I understand what you're22 saying.23 I know you referenced the one24 meeting, which we talked about earlier.25 134 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well,2 actually, I've been to a few of them, but3 --4
So what5 you're saying is that you were not in a6 position -- you or whomever was not in a7 position to form such an oversight8 committee just based on the fact that the9 community groups or individuals did not10 support the project.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah.12 Well, again, I only can go by that13 September meeting that was conducted14 by -- I think it was Fishtown Neighbors;15 if not, it was the Girard Coalition. We16 don't want it all. And all discussion at17 that point ended.18 And the only discussions I've19 had are with Mr. Grasso and his attorney20 over the last -- since last September21 about how we can tweak this. Do you have22 enough parking? Show me where you're23 going to have on- and offsite parking,24 doing the work that normally would be25 135 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 done in conjunction with a civic2 associations or a group, a coalition of3 civics. Never had that opportunity.4
And we're open to5 such a coalition, and we have been from6 the beginning. We've made that clear.7
Yeah. I8 mean, I'm -- you know, I -- actually, I9 think it's a nice proposal.10 I don't live there, you know,11 but I do represent people that live in12 proximity, and I'm going to be supportive13 of the people that I represent.14
So on the16 record, it sounds as if the reason for17 not forming such a coalition is because18 there was no community support, so I'm19 kind of hard-pressed to say, Okay, I20 support it.21
I mean, I'm24 hearing mixed --25 136 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851
There was support2 and non-support. It just so happened3 that the individuals who are leading4 those community groups didn't support it5 and --6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Correct.7
-- they chose on8 the their own volition to not engage in9 the process. I think it's a leadership10 issue rather than a community issue.11
I'm kind of12 confused 'cause I'm hearing the13 Councilman saying one thing and --14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, no.15 I think we're both saying the same thing.16 I --17 (Indiscernible; parties talking18 over each other.)19
But you're20 saying that you didn't form the oversight21 committee because there was no support.22 That's what you --23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The24 leadership of the various civics that are25 137 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 in close proximity to this venue just2 said, "We don't want it" basically. End3 of discussion.4
So -- okay.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's why9 I've taken it upon myself to engage with10 the attorney for the applicant to create11 a community benefits development.12
And who13 would that community benefits agreement14 be discussed with?15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It would16 be with Old Port Richmond...17
It's frankly18 open to anyone who wants to join in on19 it.20
And I24 don't -- look, I really understand this25 138 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 whole discussion, but it's getting a2 little far afield of where -- we have --3 actually, there's folks here from the4 community who are going to testify, so5 they can -- I guess rather than trying to6 figure out what they're thinking, we can7 ask them what we're doing and --8
Well, all9 due respect, Mr. Chairman, I'm trying to10 clarity myself --11
-- and I14 understand there are residents from the15 community.16
So, you18 know, we just sat through an hour-and-19 a-half presentation on Chestnut Hill.20 (Indiscernible; parties talking21 over each other.)22
Oh, I'm not23 saying that you can't ask questions. I'm24 just saying that they're here, and we can25 139 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 probably ask them directly as opposed to2 trying to figure out what we think they3 think.4
I just want to8 reiterate that we are open to having9 those discussions and entering into the10 development agreement -- a development11 agreement and participating in a12 coalition --13
You will be18 comfortable in having a -- some sort of a19 committee meeting or a committee put20 together of representatives who chooses21 to be involved in that?22 'Cause it was a very similar23 process in the casino. The official24 position of the FNA was "We don't support25 140 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 it." And then another group, FAC, was2 formed, and then, ultimately, everybody3 got together, and we had a community4 benefits agreement.5 So I understand you have to6 have somebody to talk to; I clearly7 understand that.8
But you're10 saying here that you are prepared to have11 that level of conversation and talk about12 the specific concerns as it relates to13 some of these issues that may come as a14 result, or may not come, 'cause at the15 end of the day, the casino issues did not16 materialize. I mean, it's -- I've never17 seen a traffic jam down there.18
I'm willing to19 enter into those discussions and meetings20 and coalitions.21
And then24 the -- well, you reference the traffic.25 141 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 Did you have a traffic analysis? 'Cause2 I understand that's traditionally the3 concern --4
-- although6 it may not be in the neighborhood, but7 there is traffic that may come through8 the neighborhood. Has that analysis been9 done?10
Yes. As I11 mentioned in my testimony, we had a12 traffic study done.13
And that was15 shared with the Planning Commission, and16 that formed the basis of the zoning17 legislation that was drafted.18 And the study indicated no19 negative impact on any nearby20 intersections because the venue operates21 off-peak to traffic normally.22
And, also, most of24 the traffic going from the venue will be25 142 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 going right on 95.2
I'm sorry.4 Do me a favor. Either of you responding,5 please pull the microphone closer to you.6
Yeah. Then14 one last question. And I think there was15 a reference in terms of -- I think the16 Councilman talked about a conditional17 license?18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: A19 conditional liquor license.20
And that's21 something, Planning, you're familiar22 with, Mr. Kramer, a conditional license23 granted, conditioned upon the operation?24 'Cause I know one of the25 143 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 concerns -- and this is getting very2 detailed. I know the name of the3 particular venue operator hasn't been4 established publicly yet. Well, it's5 kind of been out there.6 And it's clear the level of7 potential negative impact would be based8 on what type of music is played. And I9 don't know legally how you can restrict10 the type of music.11 I mean, there's one type of --12 I'll just reference the Councilman a13 little earlier about a particular group14 that could conceivably bring a crowd that15 may not necessarily be conducive to16 keeping a minimal level of noise versus,17 you know, somebody that's going to do18 opera. I mean, you know, I don't know.19 So have we established -- and I20 don't know if you're going to answer that21 question 'cause you probably can't answer22 it. Have we established a way that we23 can kind of curtail the type of music24 that would be at the facility?25 144 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851
Without being in2 any way discriminatory, that's difficult3 a thing to do in terms of the types of4 music that are being performed.5 What we proposed in our6 development agreement was, the7 conditional license would be based upon8 the operator of the facility being either9 Live Nation or a company similar in scope10 and experience to Live Nation.11
You know, it's13 possible -- you know, who knows if Live14 Nation's going to be -- Live Nation15 tomorrow might be some other company.16 But right now, they're the largest in the17 world.18 If it's someone with, you know,19 a multi-region footprint in the same20 business, that's how we'd like to --21 'cause I think that's the issue. I mean,22 the issue is, who's operating the club,23 right? Or the venue.24
And if I could25 145 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 give an example. I know that the concern2 always boils down to -- that someone has3 a nightclub or a venue. And as the4 business goes bad, then they bring in5 promoters, third-party promoters.6 And the promoters rent the7 space, and they say, Here, it's yours.8 And then the landlord walks away, and9 then the promoter runs and retains10 complete control over the building for11 that night.12 That's not going to happen in13 our agreement. We say that there's no14 third-party promoters to that effect.15
And live Nation18 or whoever that (indiscernible) will be19 will always be operating and in control20 and will never lease the space and say,21 You take it for tonight, you bring your22 own security, you take your money at the23 door.24 So that's how we try to, you25 146 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 know, balance that issue.2
And, again,4 currently, Live Nation has the largest5 presence in that business in6 Philadelphia, in this region. They're7 the largest player in the live-music and8 live-entertainment business in this9 region.10
And, you know,12 they're the world leader as well. So --13 and Philadelphia's a very point important14 market to them so -- such that they have15 a vested interest in making the16 experience a positive experience for17 their patrons and for maintaining a18 positive relationship with the City.19 They do a lot of business with20 the City: Welcome America, Festival21 Pier. They do a -- they have every22 interest in maintaining a positive23 overall experience for everyone involved.24
Correct,25 147 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 okay. All right.2 Thank you.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I have one4 other question.5
Councilman6 DiCicco.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,8 Mr. Chairman.9 The gentleman from Live Nation,10 could you just give us a brief overview11 of how your operation works in terms of12 security, onsite and offsite, the things13 that you do to ensure that there's no14 behavior problems?15
Yes. We're very16 aggressive -- well, not aggressive;17 "aggressive" is the wrong word, but we're18 very proactive in terms of both alcohol19 management and customer safety and20 security.21 So we consider that, you know,22 the property is not just inside the four23 walls; we're responsible for consumers24 coming and going, and we want to create a25 148 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 safe and friendly environment, frankly.2 So in our particular case, you3 know, we would have people outside the4 building, we would have people inside the5 building. Our employees are all trained.6 They are aware and understand how to7 handle alcohol responsibly.8 And we would -- you know, we9 would adapt to -- as we understand the10 building, we would continue to adapt to11 be the industry leader in security that12 we currently are, I think, around the13 country.14 So, you know, we have a pretty15 good training program. You know, in most16 cases, our security are trained four,17 five, six days. And we also hire18 additional security when necessary to19 make sure that we're adequately prepared20 for any event that we put on.21 We're currently promoting22 around the country over 4,000 events, I23 think, safely and with a great track24 record of success as well.25 149 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 So, I mean, I think this would2 just be a continuation of that.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.4 No further questions. Thanks.5
Any other6 questions for these witnesses?7 (No further questions.)8
Seeing9 none, thank you very much.10 Please remain in case you need11 to answer additional questions.12
Captain14 Kram (sp?), Peg Rzepski, Phil Soltzfos,15 Tom Potts; and if Mr. Kaiser's here from16 State Representative Taylor's office.17 (Witnesses come forward.)18
You can19 pull additional chairs up if need be.20 Whoever is prepared to lead21 off, please identify yourself for the22 record and proceed.23
Whoever25 150 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 you'd like. Peg, if you could just pull2 the microphone to you closer, please.3
My name is Peg7 Rzepski. I'm the Democratic ward leader8 of the 31st Ward. 21 This bill -- many are worried22 that this proposal will be a step23 backward to the days of nuisance bars and24 nightclubs along the waterfront. 14 First, the manner in which this15 matter has proceeded has been16 specifically designed to contravene the17 (indiscernible) and interest of the18 surrounding community. 7 Please be advised that this8 community is fully in favor and looks9 forward to appropriate and cohesive10 waterfront development. We respectfully11 maintain that converting a large old12 warehouse into a massive nightclub music13 venue, which Mr. 15 And enabling other similar uses16 within the legislation boundaries is not17 in keeping with the type of true cohesive18 and visionary waterfront development that19 our community has been promised for so20 long. 14 And I have another thing to15 say. 21 If we could not accept this into our22 area, we were to let him know, and it23 would not go there. 3 So with that in mind, we went4 back to the community, we sat down with5 the people in our area. 7 Richmond Street's being closed. The 158 bus is being rerouted; it's going over9 Belgrade and Thompson. 11 And then what they said is12 this: If you put that in front of the13 waterfront property, what could you put14 behind it? Who would want to go behind a15 nightclub? People don't even want to16 live next door to bars, let alone go17 behind a nightclub. 19 So I'm sure other people are20 going to have things to say. I don't21 want to take everybody's time up. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851
Thank you2 for your testimony.3 Captain, would you like to give4 your testimony after you identify5 yourself?6 CAPTAIN KRAM: Good afternoon.7
Good8 afternoon.9 CAPTAIN KRAM: From the Police10 Department's concern, sir --11
Sir, could12 you just identify yourself for the13 record?14 CAPTAIN KRAM: I'm sorry.15 Captain Mike Kram, Commanding Officer of16 the 26th Police District.17
Thank you.18 CAPTAIN KRAM: We started19 hearing about this project a few months20 ago, thanks to our community groups. It21 is a concern to them. They're worried22 about the parking in the neighborhood,23 the impact of the traffic, as well as any24 potential crime.25 156 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 From the Police Department's2 perspective and the 26th District, more3 importantly, 'cause it impacts myself and4 my officers, the most is, what kind of5 resources are we going to need to cover6 this?7 We have a very diverse district8 as far as types of neighborhoods. We go9 from extremely violent to on-the-rise.10 We have some great things going on in the11 community that are resource-intensive.12 Am I going to have to redeploy resources13 out of neighborhoods that we're trying to14 drive down crime to handle issues around15 this nightclub?16 I need to know what type of17 events we're going to have, the type of18 crowd, their security, how they're going19 to handle the crowds.20 I do have a casino detail,21 which we started to cover the Sugarhouse22 area and Delaware Avenue and all.23 It's -- at most, I might have three24 officers per shift working the during25 157 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 midnight, when most of their venues will2 be going on. It's kind of labor-3 intensive down in the casino area with4 the amount of crowds that go in.5 So it would impact the ability6 I have to serve the community, the 26th7 District. So that's my main concern with8 that.9
Thank you.10 Thank you for your testimony.11 Please identify yourself for12 the record, sir.13
Paul Kaiser, from14 State Representative John Taylor's15 office.16 And we oppose this Bill17 1101895. We oppose this -- John's18 district actually is adjacent to the19 Cumberland side of the street. However,20 the neighbors belong to the Old Richmond21 Civic Association; that's the one that22 Peg represented there.23 And most of those neighbors24 have come to us in opposition to this25 158 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 because the meeting that Councilman2 DiCicco made notice of was at the FNA3 grouping. It was an invited meeting of4 several groups.5 Some of those folks did tell us6 that they left because they felt that7 they didn't have the right to vote there8 because it -- to them, the FNA was one9 grouping, and they had already voiced10 their opposition to this at the Old11 Richmond Civic Association.12 So with that respect, we're13 trying -- what you had mentioned,14 Councilman Clarke, is the fact that if15 we're going to have this, it has to be16 something that's a community effort, but17 these folks already thought that what Peg18 had reiterated to them that if they were19 in opposition, it wasn't going to happen.20 So they basically sat down until they21 heard about. And now, all of our folks22 are up in arms about it.23 We also work directly with24 PennDOT. And here's another concern that25 159 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 I have. With the construction of 95, we2 are in constant contact with them.3 Now, I see these boundary lines4 at Beach Street being said that they're a5 wide-open street, it's empty, it's this,6 it's that.7 Well, the ICS Corporation does8 major tractor-trailer hauling at9 different times of the day and night.10 They were told in order for the 9511 expansion, that their truck depot, which12 houses -- the doors are on Richmond13 Street currently today, will now have to14 be moved, and all of those tractor-15 trailers will be put -- the entrances to16 that port will be on Beach Street. So17 Beach Street will now be experiencing18 tractor-trailer traffic.19 So I would believe -- and I'm20 sure that we're going to hear from ICS21 when they see this -- that they're going22 to be asking for constraints on the23 parking and the facilities that they need24 to get those tractor-trailers in and out25 160 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 of Beach Street for.2 That being said, I just want to3 reiterate the fact that we are opposed to4 this bill.5 Thank you.6
Thank you7 very much for your testimony.8 Please identify yourself for9 the record.10
Hi. My name is Tom11 Potts. I am the (indiscernible) director12 for New Kensington Development13 Corporation and also a board member on14 the Old Richmond Civic Association.15 I feel that this project is --16 this project should be put off for at17 least five years, until the construction18 for 95 is finished, in which time PennDOT19 has also talked to the community about20 putting open-air markets underneath of 9521 and some recreational facilities22 underneath 95 from the York Street23 section straight over to Lehigh Avenue.24 These have been plans that were set in25 161 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 motion by PennDOT in the past few months,2 with the Girard Ave. work that's being3 done there.4 These are things that should be5 taken into consideration, and we oppose6 this for that reason. It needs to be put7 on hold.8
Thank15 you, Mr. Chairman.16 Quickly. Ms. Rzepski or17 Mr. Potts, I guess, could answer this.18 You referenced Richmond Street being19 closed. Could you just tell us briefly20 kind of what you see as the impact of21 that being as far as this proposal?22
I live right in2 that area. So with Richmond Street being3 closed, the cars will all be coming onto4 Lehigh Avenue and Cumberland Street.5 Cumberland Street is a one-way street.6
So to get out of8 that property, I don't -- I don't -- the9 people -- what we're afraid of is, all of10 the cars will have to park all along the11 side streets.12 And, by the way, the closest13 house to that area is at Tilton and -- no14 Emery and Cumberland Street, which is a15 Laundromat with people living up and four16 houses right there.17 So I'll dispute, you know, that18 one thing. There is a close house.19 The people there have a lot of20 problems. Most people have a lot of cars21 at this point, two and three in the22 family, and I'm sure everybody goes23 through it.24 If they go to park under25 163 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 I-95 -- some of the neighbors have to2 park under I-95. If they go to park3 under I-95, that brings more traffic into4 the neighborhood.5 The traffic situation is how6 it's going to affect it, I would think.7
Could I answer8 that a little bit from PennDOT's point of9 view?10
They are going to12 have the traffic flow currently in13 their -- in this proposal. Now, that can14 change.15 But currently, what they16 propose is that when Richmond Street17 closes, the northbound traffic will be on18 a temporary road that will come through19 Cumberland Street and onto the railroad20 land all the way up to Allegheny.21 So all traffic coming off of22 Delaware Avenue and flowing north will23 come that way. Right in front of that --24
Just so25 164 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 I'm clear, this is to go to I-95 or --2
Yeah. This is how3 they're going to expand it.4 Once the northbound sections5 are rebuilt and redone, that same road6 will then carry southbound traffic.7 So in the proposed time frames8 of the four years for this expansion,9 that area that you are describing that's10 right in front here will have a very11 definite traffic flow day and night.12
Okay.13 Thank you.14 One more question, if I could.15 Just -- I guess this is to the Captain.16 You heard, I think it was, Mr. Grasso17 earlier talking about this being kind of18 a desolate area and kind of bad things19 are happening here right now.20 Could you comment? He feels --21 and I've heard this argument on a lot of22 things -- if you had activity, that that23 will help, especially his -- he is saying24 that, you know, he has experience in25 165 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 this, you know, there will be security2 concerns addressed, I guess, is what I'm3 trying to say.4 Do you have any comment on that5 one way or another?6 CAPTAIN KRAM: I mean, it's not7 a hot spot of crime; there's nothing8 there. There's two factories there or9 two warehouses there right now.10 The problem we have is behind11 the warehouses on Beach Street. Beach12 Street's a little block; it doesn't even13 look like a street.14
Mm-hmm.15 CAPTAIN KRAM: Between Richmond16 and the river is a large parcel of land17 that's used as a -- for their ATVs and18 motorcycles.19 Usually on a Sunday, if you go20 out there on a Sunday, they do do some21 drag-racing. It is ATVs, motor bikes,22 but they're on that -- they're on that23 parcel of land, which, a lot of time, we24 can't get to 'em.25 166 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 I usually do one operation in2 the spring. We hit it, we confiscate as3 much -- as many ATVs and bikes of that4 nature that we can and a few cars. But5 I -- I mean, that's pretty much it.6 Other than that, it's not a hot7 spot of crime. It doesn't draw any of my8 resources right now.9 When you put a large amount of10 people in there, it's going to impact my11 resources. And that's my concern.12
17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO:18 Mr. 21 People are against change. People have22 concerns; sometimes rightfully, sometimes23 maybe not so rightfully. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 will impact their quality of life. 5 But I get paid to make6 decisions. 11 The most recent was is one I12 referenced a few minutes ago, which is a13 hotel development at Fourth and Race,14 between Fourth and Fifth and Race. 4 It could have been a Hard Rock Café, it5 could have been a Maggiano's. 18 I made an offer and was told on19 a few occasions, "We don't want it. 23 I've taken it upon myself to prepare a24 community benefits agreement. 6 This is like dejà vu. It's7 kind of like the casino issue. 19 Councilman Clarke and I had20 numerous discussions, and he would always21 urge me get it done. 8 But he was prepared. 15 So yes. I said, "If you don't16 want it, it will not get built," but not17 that quickly. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 But when somebody says, "We2 don't want to have a discussion," then3 it's my responsibility, as an elected4 official, to look at the broad picture5 and to say, Does it make sense? Is there6 economic development for the City? Will7 it increase tax revenues? With it create8 jobs? 14 Thank you, Mr. 15
Mr. Chairman, I16 would really like to make one comment, if17 I can.18
First of all,21 Councilman, you know that I've always22 done zoning with you.23 Not against development. Put24 57 homes in an area. Had meeting after25 173 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 meeting.2 When we left that meeting, you3 said, "Go back to your community, run it4 by them," which we did. Get back to you.5 And I said, "The community is in6 opposition to you."7 So you can't say that we didn't8 give due process.9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well --10
At the Fishtown11 meeting, the reason people could not all12 vote -- and half of our community did go,13 because ORCA is one community, FNA is14 another. So you have to live within15 certain boundaries to vote at FNA. So16 out of the hundred-and-some people, not17 everybody could vote.18 The rest of the people were19 voting no because they were from my20 community, but they were not allowed --21 and there is a sign-in sheet on this.22 So I'm not going to argue with23 you. We put 24/24 in, 57 new homes in my24 area, and Planet Fitness. There's no way25 174 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 that my community turns down development.2 I just think a thing of this3 magnitude in front of the riverfront,4 which -- who's going to go there when a5 club of this size.6 No matter what you feel,7 Mr. Grasso, at FNA meetings, said, "This8 is my club, my nightclub." You know that9 and I know that.10 Thank you.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, club12 has -- as I said, Palumbo's, Frank13 Palumbo's was a nightclub, the14 (indiscernible) was a nightclub. There's15 a lot of different clubs.16
Well, I --17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But I18 think, Mr. Chairman, I would just like to19 make one other comment.20 Reference has been made to the21 overlay. I created that overlay. I22 created that overlay.23 The last thing I would do is24 sponsor legislation that will undo that25 175 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 overlay and cause some of the problems2 that we had that caused the overlay to be3 created in the first place.4 I did it in conjunction with5 State Representative Lederer, way back6 when.7 And I also was the person who8 encouraged John Street, when he was9 mayor, to sign an executive order which10 put the PennPraxis, Central Delaware11 Waterfront vision in motion.12 The last thing I'm going to do13 is upset the apple cart on my way out the14 door. That's not what my legacy is going15 to be about. My legacy is that,16 hopefully, I helped stimulate development17 in this city and helped make it a better18 place.19 Thank you.20
Thank you21 very much for your testimony.22 Mr. McElhatton, please, and23 Mr. Schelter.24 (Witnesses come forward.)25 176 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851
Please2 identify yourself for the record.3 MR. McELHATTON: Daniel P.4 McElhatton. M-C-E-L-H-A-T-T-O-N.5
Craig Schelter,6 Schelter & Associates. The last name's7 spelled S-C-H-E-L-T-E-R.8
Please9 proceed.10 MR. McELHATTON: Mr. Chairman11 and members of the Rules Committee, I12 appear today on behalf of Anderson13 Construction, James Anderson, and the14 corporate entities which he owns or15 controls which have property to the rear16 of the proposed rezoned site.17 And I'm here with Craig18 Schelter, whom, all of you know, is a19 renowned expert in land-use planning,20 community development, and zoning.21 Anderson Construction is a22 major contractor, with over 110 employees23 from the City of Philadelphia within the24 City of Philadelphia, and they've25 177 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 remitted over $600,000 in wage taxes to2 the City of Philadelphia in the last3 fiscal year.4 I have written testimony, which5 was previously submitted to Council and6 which I would ask to be incorporated in7 its entirety in the record, Mr. Chairman.8
9 MR. 22 A nightclub is a nightclub is a23 nightclub. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 but the Felton Theater and the Felton2 Club have caused havoc in that community3 anytime it's been open over the last 254 years. 5 In addition, there was a6 question by Councilman Clarke about the7 process, and this process has actually8 started in opposition and mobilizing of9 recent weeks. The legislation was10 proposed and the committee hearing set11 and then withdrawn. And then it was12 reintroduced again or reset. 14 The Planning Commission, in15 their records, knew that this was spot16 zoning when originally introduced because17 it only covered one parcel. 20 But this is clearly still spot21 zoning; it's one parcel within a22 wide-ranging area. It's an island in a23 sea of different zoning. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 It benefits only one party. 6 The second issue that we would7 apply, and that is the damage to the8 community itself. 10 I-95 is not the kind of barrier11 that the Delaware River is. Folks go12 under I-95 all the time, to and from13 Fishtown and to and from Richmond. To14 perceive it as an absolute barrier, it is15 not. 16 In the traffic study that was17 presented to the Planning Commission, the18 presumption was in that study that there19 would be three people in every vehicle20 that would come to that location. That's21 unrealistic. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 the creator of the legislation that2 prohibited nightclubs in this area. That3 he got the plaudits for. 8 There have been allegations or9 statements that there are leases for10 adjacent properties for leasing of11 parking. The Planning Commission did not12 have such leases. 15 And what happens, members of16 the committee, if any of those leaseholds17 are terminated by a bankruptcy? If the18 owner of the adjacent buildings go19 bankrupt, the Bankruptcy Court controls20 that. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 under this ordinance. 2 In addition, the proposed3 venue -- and Mr. Grasso, they talked4 about, Well, we only needed 650 parking5 spots. 7 They're saying, We only need8 650 parking spots, or whatever the number9 is, by virtue of the fact that we have an10 ordinance that makes out a certain11 exception. 15 With 3,000 projected patrons,16 you would need a minimum of 1500 parking17 spaces. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 They also specifically then2 said that they don't know what the impact3 would be on the adjacent landowner to the4 rear, the Anderson property, because they5 never asked or discussed. 10 That property he uses now portions of it11 for a site for accumulation of vehicles12 for the I-95 reconstruction that he's13 been involved in and possibly will be14 involved in in the future. 22 The plans that he also has an23 ability to use this for industrial24 purposes. 21
Councilman22 DiCicco.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,24 Mr. Chairman.25 185 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 Good afternoon, Mr. McElhatton.2 MR. McELHATTON: Good3 afternoon, Councilman.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: From the5 tail-end of your testimony, you talked6 about Beach Street parking from the7 thousands of customers who would be going8 to this venue, using Beach Street to9 park.10 It is a public street. There11 are no parking regulations currently, but12 parking regulations could be put in place13 with the Streets Department. There could14 be no parking anytime, it could be15 parking at certain hours.16 So I don't think that's such a17 heavy lift to deal with Beach Street,18 which is really right now a vacant,19 dangerous street. There is nothing20 there. And it's adjacent to your client.21 And you're representing22 Mr. Anderson or the community? You're23 representing Mr. Anderson.24 MR. McELHATTON: I've said I'm25 186 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 representing Mr. Anderson.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But you3 talked so much about the community stuff,4 I wasn't sure who you were representing.5 MR. McELHATTON: Well, I think6 he has a right because anything he does7 with this parcel can affect --8 (Indiscernible; parties talking9 over each other.)10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I just11 wanted it for clarity, okay.12 So parking -- if you look at13 the diagram of the angle parking that was14 part of the discussion with the Planning15 Commission and the developer, where it16 shows angle parking from one end of Beach17 Street to the other end, I've said to18 Mr. Anderson and I'll say it to you, that19 could always be changed according to your20 needs. Do you need one curb cut? Do you21 need two curb cuts? Do you need ten22 curb?23 That is something down the24 road, when a development will occur on25 187 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 Mr. Anderson's site. And if he's going2 to use it for a staging area for trucks3 to do the I-95 corridor rehabilitation or4 reconstruction, the same would apply.5 They'll create curb cuts.6 But if the issue is, We don't7 want any parking on Beach Street, I think8 Mr. Grasso's already testified that he9 doesn't need to have it. It would be10 nice to have for overflow parking or if11 some other development took place around12 there, to have some on-street parking.13 But it's not necessary because14 he only needs 272 spaces, but he will15 have 650.16 Let me finish.17 MR. McELHATTON: I will.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You talk19 about spot zoning. Did we not change the20 zoning classification for the Anderson21 site from G2-Industrial to C, Mr. Kramer?22
C3.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: C3? One24 parcel. One parcel. We changed zoning25 188 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 from one classification to a different2 classification. Isn't that spot zoning?3 MR. McELHATTON: It may not be4 impermissible spot zoning.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well,6 it's -- you could -- look, I'm not a7 lawyer --8 MR. McELHATTON: Well --9 (Indiscernible; parties talking10 over each other.)11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm not12 trying to be argumentative; I'm trying to13 lay a little groundwork about some of14 your comments.15 Floods of people will be moving16 from this venue under I-95, through the17 neighborhood, and back.18 Mr. Anderson's parcel, wasn't19 it in play to be a casino? And did I not20 support that site as a casino?21 So we would have had floods of22 people walking from one part of that23 Beach Street into the neighborhoods,24 which was never going to happen. But I'm25 189 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 using your references as to the2 inconvenience that this venue is going --3 and the adverse impact it's going to have4 on the community when your client has5 been, and is still, trying to figure out6 if he can get a casino there.7 MR. McELHATTON: I'll let8 Mr. Schelter respond.9
Councilman10 DiCicco, may I respond to your question?11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah.12
First of all,13 with regard to the notion about14 Mr. Anderson's other property previously15 being rezoned, I think what happened in16 that rezoning was, in fact, what you did17 was, you brought Mr. Anderson's property18 under the purview of the Central19 Waterfront Overlay, which it would not20 have been before.21 As a G2 property, he would not22 have had to go to the Planning Commission23 for a detailed plan review. He would24 have not been subject to all the reviews25 190 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 that the Planning Commission has. And by2 having it rezoned as C3, he's now subject3 to that.4 So, in fact, while the use5 might be more liberal in terms of putting6 a commercial use there, in fact, the7 process that he would have to go through8 is more lengthy for the Central9 Waterfront Overlay, which is one part of10 this bill.11 The other part is, and the12 reason for the contention about spot13 zoning, is that when you look at how14 carefully you crafted the bill to set up15 the North Delaware Avenue Area Special16 Controls District and the other17 conditions in the code, it would say that18 essentially anything from Rhawn Street to19 the Navy base, in one case, and from20 Spring Garden to Lehigh in another case,21 none of this would be allowed or you'd22 have to go to the Zoning Board.23 And, you know, I have to say24 that I'm going to miss you on the Rules25 191 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 Committee. You and I have worked2 together, you know, a long time;3 sometimes we're on the same side,4 sometimes we're on a different side. But5 you have heard -- you've heard the6 arguments, and you've made your decision.7 But when looking at the8 legislation that you've moved through9 Council -- and I just want to read one10 paragraph. It says, "Unfortunately, the11 positive effects of this growth12 (referring to restaurants, nightclubs,13 amusement centers) remains short-lived14 for the residents and respectable15 businesses in the area. Some bars and16 nightclubs along the waterfront have17 become a nuisance to nearby residential18 communities by contributing to more19 crime, public intoxation, vandalism,20 litter, and other anti-social forms of21 behavior."22 That was part of the23 legislative findings. And when you go --24 let's leave that, though, for a second25 192 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 and go to the parking along Beach Street2 and Schirra, especially along Schirra,3 which is narrower than Beach Street,4 where that is continuously parked with5 diagonal parking.6 You look at the number of cars7 in those instances for that length and8 imagine PennDOT trucks, imagine SJA9 concrete trucks, imagine all the heavy10 construction trucks that will move down11 there during nighttime hours, which is12 when you end up rebuilding I-95.13 That's not going to -- if this14 is not something you can just confine15 during the day, I think that's going to16 be a serious problem and a hazard for17 people who inadvertently back out and18 they get hit by a dozer.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So the20 answer is, then, we'll have no parking21 anytime.22
I think that --23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We'll24 remove parking.25 193 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851
I think that2 would be one answer.3 In fact, we met -- Mr. Anderson4 and I met with Alan Greenberger and Tom5 Corcoran last week. We laid out our6 whole argument to them, and we asked7 them, About how many parking spaces do8 you think would be required? And9 Mr. Corcoran, without prompting said, "At10 least a thousand spaces. That's what11 would be required."12 You've got the Central13 Waterfront -- excuse me, the Delaware14 Waterfront Corporation about to release a15 master plan next week. And we said,16 Well, can you tell us what the zoning17 conditions are going to be in that plan?18 Because, again, it follows up on the19 legislation that you got through in your20 district for the overlay.21 And they said, "We aren't done22 with that yet. It won't be available23 until July."24 So all we're saying is, if25 194 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 you're rebuilding I-95, which affects2 hundreds of thousands of Philadelphians3 and inconveniences them, you've got a4 master plan coming out, we just don't5 believe that now is the time to move on6 this particular project.7 And, finally, there are three8 other properties here which are9 industrial in nature. And the planning10 study that was done by PIDC, which guided11 the Planning Commission's new Zoning Code12 recommendation, said that these13 industries should be encouraged to14 remain.15 If this zoning gets changed,16 there will be three sites on which there17 won't be a community development required18 because they will be, as of right, as an19 entertainment use and will not have to go20 through this entire process.21 So that's respectfully22 submitted. I'll still miss ya.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Some24 people won't.25 195 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 Thank you.2
Anyone else6 to testify on this bill? Please come7 forward.8 (Witness comes forward.)9
Please pull10 the microphone close to you. Identify11 yourself for the record and proceed.12
My name is Neal13 Brecker, President of Fishtown Neighbors14 Association. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 neighborhood as well as the adjacent2 neighborhoods had the opportunity to come3 and hear the proposal from Mr. 8 Just to kind of clarify the way our9 zoning committee works is primarily --10 not primarily. 9 There were approximately 12010 people who attended the meeting from11 Fishtown and the surrounding area. There12 were 95 eligible voters. Ballots were13 given out. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 So the people have testified2 here today. 10 When you're talking about bringing in11 2600 to 3,000 people in a neighborhood,12 suddenly 650, or if you add the 25013 street parking spaces, that's only 90014 spaces. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 to echo a few of what the other2 presenters have stated, opposition to the3 spot zoning of this venue -- I'm sorry,4 of this parcel and also what previous5 testimony was given if the leases were6 lost to those adjacent properties, they7 could build as right. 13 The proposed use of the music14 venue is not an active ground floor use15 identified as a key attribute. 18 It is an auto-intensive19 project. 7 So we would concur with a8 number of the other presenters who say9 that this is just not the right time for10 the project. 13
Thank you14 for your testimony.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I just16 have one comment.17
Councilman.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,19 Mr. Chairman.20 Thank you, sir, for coming.21 I apologize. I was not aware22 that there was a sign-in sheet, if I23 misspoke earlier, saying that there was24 definitely not one. I don't think I said25 201 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 that, but I want to apologize and thank2 you for clearing that up.3
Thank you.4 The stenographer needs a5 much-needed five minute break.6 (Short break taken.)7 (Proceedings resume.)8
Excuse me,9 ladies and gentlemen. In the interest of10 time, we'd like to continue on with our11 hearing so that we can get you out of12 here as soon as possible.13 Can I please have your14 attention. Would you please cease15 conversation so that we can get the16 hearing started. Thank you very much.17 Councilmembers will be coming18 back as we proceed.19 The next bill is Bill No.20 110344, which is an ordinance approving21 the Ninth Amendment of the redevelopment22 proposal for the Haddington Urban Renewal23 Area, Unit No. 2 and Unit No. 3, being24 the area beginning at the northwest25 202 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 corner of Parrish and 52nd Street,2 including the Fifth Amendment to the3 Urban Renewal Plan and the Third4 Amendment to the relocation plan, which5 provides, inter alia, for the additional6 land acquisition of approximately eight7 properties for residential and related8 uses; and the provision of certain9 relocation services, as required by law;10 and declaring that condemnation is not11 imminent with respect to the Project.12 Please identify yourself for13 the record.14
Good morning,15 Mr. Chairman and members of the16 committee.17
My name is20 Richard Redding. I'm Director of the21 Community Planning Division at the22 Philadelphia City Planning Commission.23 I'm here today to speak in support of24 Bill No. 110344, the ninth amended25 203 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 redevelopment proposal for Haddington2 Urban Renewal Area.3 The proposal authorizes4 acquisition of eight vacant lots and5 their plan for a transit-oriented6 development in the area bounded by 59th7 Street, Market Street, 60th Street,8 Filbert Street, in West Philadelphia.9 This is in accordance with the Haddington10 Redevelopment Area Plan.11 Our Planning Commission staff12 approved it on April 19th of 2011, and13 I'm happy to answer any questions you14 might have.15
Are there16 any questions for this witness?17 (No questions.)18
Please just19 stay there until we finish with the bill.20 Jim Thornton. Is Mr. Covington21 here?22
Please come24 forward.25 204 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 Mr. Thornton. Laura Thornton2 and Jim Thornton, are you in the room?3 Or Joe Marino?4 All right. Could you please5 come forward and keep yourself ready6 until after this next witness. Well,7 come forward and just sit here.8 And we have Mr. Covington9 first, wherever he's at.10 (Witnesses come forward.)11
Hi. I'm Michael14 Koonce, Deputy Executive Director for the15 Redevelopment Authority.16 Mr. Covington should be back17 shortly, but he stepped out. I can give18 his testimony.19
If you can20 give his testimony. Is it prepared21 testimony, and is it lengthy? Or can you22 summarize it and provide a copy to the --23
It's prepared24 testimony, and it's very short.25 205 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441
Madam Chairman,3 and members of the committee, I'm here to4 speak in support of Bill No. 110344,5 which is the Ninth Amendment to the West6 Philadelphia Redevelopment Proposal and7 the Fifth Amendment to the Haddington8 Unit No. 2 and No. 3 Urban Renewal Plan9 for the Haddington Unit No. 2 and No. 310 Urban Renewal Area.11 This bill would authorize the12 authority to acquire eight properties.13 The acquisition will be funded with NTI14 bond proceeds.15 The one occupied structure, one16 vacant structure, and six vacant lots17 will be combined with properties owned by18 the City of Philadelphia to be developed19 as part of a transit-oriented project20 that will include mixed-income21 residential and retail.22 This project will promote the23 elimination of blight and result in24 expanded housing opportunities for low-25 206 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 moderate-income individuals and restore2 properties to the tax rolls.3 Mr. Chairman and members of the4 committee, I respectfully request5 favorable consideration of Bill No.6 110344 and would also ask for the7 suspension of Council rules to allow for8 first reading on June 9, 2011.9
Thank you10 very much for your testimony.11 Are there any questions for12 this witness?13 (No questions.)14
Seeing15 none, thank you very much.16 Is the RDA done?17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yeah, on18 that testimony, yes. Thank you.19
Terrific.20 Thank you.21 Mr. Thornton, could you please22 come forward.23
If somebody2 could vacate one of those seats, it would3 be helpful.4 (Witnesses come forward.)5
My name is Jim8 Thornton. I own 20 and 22 North 59th9 Street, two of the properties that are10 being slated for acquisition by the City.11
And I'm Laura13 Thornton. I am the founder and director14 of Sustainable Urban Development. We're15 a nonprofit dedicated to developing16 sustainable, socially just, and17 inspirational communities.18
And I currently20 run the 59th Street community garden on21 lots 20 and 22 at North 59th Street.22
All right. Back25 208 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 in November, when the Sustainable Urban2 Development was formed by my daughter, I3 gave her a lease for five years on two4 lots, at 20 and 22 North 59th Street. I5 put up the money to basically build6 raised-bed gardens, supply soil, seed,7 plantings. And my daughter went out and8 got about 80 different volunteers to9 build this -- one of the first green10 spaces down by 59th and Market Street.11 We took about 150 bags of trash12 from the site. We actually cleared all13 of the sites that you're talking about.14 They're grassed out right now. And on15 two of them, we're growing enough16 vegetables to feed 3200 to 4500 meals to17 people of Haddington.18 Haddington has about 15 percent19 of its population on public assistance.20 Haddington has the worst school scores in21 the whole State of Pennsylvania. It's a22 blighted area, it's an area that nobody23 seems to care about. It's 98 percent24 African-American. It is basically one of25 209 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 the highest places for incarceration for2 young black males. It's a neighborhood3 that someone has to come in and do4 something with.5 My daughter decided, after she6 graduated from St. Joe's University, that7 some of the prime problems in the8 neighborhood is that the kids drop out of9 school, children basically have problems10 with hunger, they have problems with --11 probably some of the highest special ed12 needs in the City of Philadelphia, some13 of the highest psychological issues for14 children in the City of Philadelphia.15 And I'm just going to let my16 daughter take it from here.17
All right. It20 costs the State of Pennsylvania21 $3.2 billion each year to combat hunger22 in Pennsylvania. That's $2.4 billion for23 medical and mental-health care,24 $330 million in lost educational25 210 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 achievement and worker productivity,2 $517 million in costs for charities that3 relieve hunger.4 One in four residents in5 Philadelphia alone at risk for hunger.6 That's more than double the rates on both7 national and state levels.8 Hunger can often look like9 obesity. Families stretch dollars,10 mothers cut back on meals and buy food11 with little nutritional value.12 Inner-city families rely on corner-store13 markets that sell chips and soda rather14 than fruits and vegetables.15 Hungry people are 30 percent16 more likely to be hospitalized and twice17 as likely to need mental-health services.18 They are 50 percent more likely to repeat19 a grade and twice as likely to require20 special education.21 Now, 440,000 Philadelphians22 receive SNAP, often referred to as "food23 stamps." Still more than 150,00024 residents qualify to participate but25 211 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 choose not to or are unaware of the2 program.3 At Sustainable Urban4 Development, we're taking our first steps5 with our community garden at 59th and6 Market.7 Again, like my father8 referenced, on April 2, over 409 volunteers showed up at 9 a.m. to green10 up 59th Street. We collected over 15011 bags of trash, hundreds of pounds of12 construction debris, and countless13 amounts of broken glass over the five14 lots, which you are referring to at 59th.15 Thanks to the efforts of our16 volunteers, we've been able to build over17 12 raised-garden beds and begin the 59th18 Street garden, again, with the hopes of19 creating somewhere between 3500 and 450020 healthy free meals for the community this21 summer, or this growing season.22
And this is all23 at no cost to the City of Philadelphia.24 Zero except for water, because the Water25 212 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 Department is helping us out.2 This is the first garden we3 wanted to build. We have another one4 slated for across the street and one5 behind a warehouse at 15 North 59th6 Street.7 What we're requesting is8 simply -- you're doing one big city9 block; we're hoping you keep at least two10 small lots. They're 15-by-75, so it's a11 30-by-75. Please take 20 and 22 North12 59th out of this proposal so that we can13 have at least two green lots for the new14 proposal.15
I just want19 to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the20 opportunity to speak.21 Just to give you a frame of22 reference, this is the block where the23 construction for the el has happened for24 the last eight years.25 213 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 Three weeks ago, we had a2 walking tour of this area, with the3 regional director of HUD. Everyone --4 and you're going to hear this not only in5 this testimony but in future testimony.6 All progress isn't forward for7 all people, and we have to respect what8 property rights and other activities9 interest. But also, we have to look at10 the greater good.11 Between that parcel and 63rd12 Street, there is 40 percent abandonment,13 40 percent abandonment, both on the north14 side of the street and on the south side15 of the street.16 The regional director of HUD17 was aghast by the fact that there was so18 much devastation in the wake of so much19 infrastructure investment.20 So what we are proposing to do21 along with these parcels is to create a22 anchor for development.23 I grew up in this neighborhood;24 I don't need a GPS to find it. My25 214 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 grandparents lived on the 300 block of2 Edgewood.3 And what we're attempting to do4 with HUD dollars and local dollars is to5 bring back transit-oriented development6 that is a half a block away from the 60th7 Street el.8 Now, I'm for good vegetables.9 I know that there's food deserts in the10 community, but I also know that people11 need a place to live, and people need12 housing and economic development.13 And as a joke, you recently14 signed a piece of pipe. And you -- as a15 freshman, you told me, You're going to16 have to get in line in the pipeline of17 development.18 Well, here we are, four years19 later, and we're about to look at20 development for the first time in a long21 time in this area.22 Now, I'm for vegetables, but23 I'm for -- there's about 20,000 vacant24 lots in the City of Philadelphia that25 215 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 would be prime real estate for growing2 vegetables. And I think this progress is3 the kind of progress this neighborhood4 needs.5 Thank you.6
Thank you,7 Councilman.8 Any other questions for these9 witnesses?10
The only thing I11 would like to say is that if they take12 it, I hope that they help us replace it13 with another south-facing property.14 And I was told that when Curtis15 Jones was young, he did not eat his16 vegetables.17 (Laughter.)18
Community22 gardening is not just an opportunity for23 economic development, but it's also a24 outlet for community ownership. It25 216 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 fosters the development of a community2 identity, it allows for intergenerational3 and cross-cultural opportunity, it builds4 community leaders, it offers a focal5 point for community organization, which6 can deal with other social issues as7 well, just not the hunger issue.8 As well, with urban ecosystems,9 gardens filter rain water, they would10 help Cobbs Creek. They reduce soil11 erosion and runoff, which lessens12 flooding, saving the City money as well13 as neighbors money from damage from14 flooding.15 By reducing the heat-island16 effect, gardens can also lessen the need17 for air-conditioning and lower our18 electric bills.19 And one of the most important20 things, I think, is the crime prevention.21 It allows for opportunities to network22 within the community, with other23 neighbors, it builds neighborhood24 associations, and it increases eyes on25 217 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 the street.2 Studies show that crime3 decreases in neighborhood as the amount4 of green space increases and that5 vegetation has been seen to alleviate6 mental fatigue, one of the precursors to7 violent behavior.8 In other neighborhoods,9 burglaries (indiscernible) in one10 precinct of Philadelphia dropped by 9011 percent after police helped residents12 clean up vacant lots and plant gardens.13 And on top of that, it's a14 great youth outlet opportunity. They can15 discover where food comes from, basic16 business principles, jobs and life17 skills. It provides a green and18 beautiful place for children to play.19 They can understand issues of20 environmental sustainability.21 And youth volunteering at a22 young age are more likely to volunteer23 more throughout their life. And also,24 it's a great way to diversify a college25 218 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 résumé.2 And just for health reasons,3 studies show that community gardeners and4 their children eat healthier diets than5 non-gardening families.6 Eating locally-produced food7 reduces asthma rates in these8 neighborhood because children are able to9 consume manageable amounts of local10 pollen and develop these immunities that11 they might not have.12 And increasing the land13 consumption of fresh, local produce is14 one of the best ways to address childhood15 lead poisoning as well as their exposure16 to chemical fertilizers and pesticides.17 Exposure to green land reduces18 stress and increases a sense of wellness.19 Gardens restore oxygen to the air and20 help reduce pollution.21 It makes economic sense.22 We're fighting so many issues23 with this beautiful garden. It's not24 just hunger issue; it's a pollution25 219 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 issue. It's overall well-being of2 people.3 And we've put in over 23004 hours of work into this one garden, and a5 lot of people are invested in it and from6 the neighborhood. And by the end of this7 fall, we're hoping to even double those8 work hours.9
Just let me10 commend you, first of all, in your11 enthusiasm and your dedication to urban12 life. I do appreciate where you're13 coming from and the passion with which14 you portray it.15 But I do see an opportunity16 with Councilman Jones, 'cause in the17 years that I've served with him here,18 which has only one term very, he's very19 innovative and will look for solutions20 rather than just try to dismiss things.21 So what I see here is an22 opportunity for not only residential23 development with a bent on24 transportation, but also perhaps a way to25 220 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 fit your program into this overall2 development so that all folks are served3 both nutritionally, housing-wise, and4 from a clean and greener transportation5 opportunity.6 So I think if the lots go, one7 of the things about having it raised beds8 is perhaps we can get some help in moving9 them to somewhere within the community10 around the development and not discount11 what you're doing at all, but to commend12 you.13 And I know if you work with him14 and his staff, they will find a home for15 your gardens and be able to work with you16 to expand them.17
Please25 221 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 identify yourself for the record.2
Sure. Joe Marino.3 This is in reference to the4 bill -- or Ordinance, I should say,5 110344. We are opposed to it.6 This is my mother. She owns7 the property. I use the property for --8 to operate a business on the property for9 25 years in the community.10 This says here, in this Exhibit11 C, "There are no commercial properties12 that will be require relocation in this13 acquisition."14 That's untrue. This is a15 commercial property here that we've used16 for 25 years. It's not a vacant lot or17 anything that they're looking to take.18 Everything's current with the property.19
Okay.24 Councilman Jones.25 222 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441
I mean, that's10 just pretty much it. It would cause a11 hardship to my family. It's a small12 business, and we've been in this13 community for 25 years.14 It's not like -- you know, I15 consider that I grew up in that community16 too. I'm still a young person and I've17 been there since, you know, before my18 teens.19
By the way, no one22 has been notified about this until this23 letter asking to come to this hearing.24 There was nothing, no interaction, zero,25 223 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 no nothing about April -- whatever the2 date was, I'm sorry -- for the amendment,3 which also puzzles me because it talks4 about an area at 52nd and Parrish, and5 we're talking 59th and Market.6 From what I did, I looked at7 some records, and it shows there's almost8 40 vacant lots that the City already9 currently owns that they could do10 something with in the same zip code. And11 as a matter of fact, there's two across12 the street that the City owns that are13 still within that half a block that he14 referred to, to SEPTA.15 We weathered the storm of16 staying in the community through the el,17 everything. We took no dollars for18 anything.19
Is anyone20 from RDA here that could testify relative21 to notice or lack thereof?22 When did you receive the23 letter?24
The certified mail25 224 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 came May 18th for this hearing.2
'Cause I8 know we've had discussions in the past9 about notification and the length of time10 that we give folks to respond to the11 taking of their business or home.12
Right. And I13 don't know how this works, the whole14 legal aspect of it and everything. But,15 I mean, this is a viable business. It's16 been here for 25 years ago.17
What I18 would suggest is to have some19 conversation now with the folks from RDA20 to see if we can try to figure something21 out.22 (Witness comes forward.)23
Excuse me.24 This is Ed Covington, the Executive25 225 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 Director of the Redevelopment Authority.2 I think the notice was provided3 on a timely basis, but I'm not sure what4 the issue is in terms of resolution.5
What's the10 required length of time for notification?11
No, I'm14 just -- is there an answer to the15 required period of time when a person is16 notified about the taking of their17 Business?18
Well, the19 notification -- I mean, the notification20 really is a function of providing them an21 opportunity to come to this session,22 which --23
But we're24 being asked at this point to let the bill25 226 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 out and potentially vote on it the2 Thursday after this Thursday. What's3 going to take place between now and then?4 Councilman Jones.5
Mr. Chairman6 and members of the committee, I don't7 want to speak to the notification issue;8 that is not my axe to grind.9 But as we start to talk about10 negative impacts of this community, I11 have an exhibit here which demonstrates12 the parcel that we're talking about.13
And,15 hopefully, all members of the committee16 have it.17 And yes, there was 25 years18 maybe of business, but there's been at19 least a dozen years of disrepair. And20 when we went out and walked by there and21 talked, there's no activity there.22 And I don't disrespect their23 business. I want to work it out with the24 Redevelopment Authority.25 227 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441
It is not as3 if we're not compassionate about their4 God-given right in this country to have a5 living.6 But what we are saying is that7 it needs to be worked out with the8 Redevelopment Authority and all of their9 rights respected.10 But in the name of moving this11 project forward, I think it should be12 considered that it's been vacant for, I13 think, a dozen years.14
It's not vacant.15 Where do you get that information that16 it's vacant?17
One at a20 time, please.21 (Indiscernible; parties talking22 over each other.)23
One at a24 time, please.25 228 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441
We have a license,2 sir. We pay use and occupancy on that3 property, we pay real-estate taxes. The4 garage is open on a daily basis.5 I don't know where you got the6 inclination it's vacant.7
Whenever we8 walk by there, whenever I personally gone9 by there, there's no activity.10
There is activity11 there daily. I don't know what hours12 that you walk. But, you know, I -- we're13 not open 24 hours a day, obviously.14 And I don't know -- I have a --15 you know, you chose an interesting word,16 "axe to grind."17
You know, we've20 never been cited for problems, issues.21 We don't cause crime in that area. You22 know, we -- I don't know what negative23 impact we're having.24 If there's a problem with the25 229 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 property, the property can be cleaned.2 That's not an issue.3 But it's never been brought up4 to us before.5
Do you have11 a axe to grind? Is that what you said?12 I didn't say that.13
And what I16 would suggest is for you to have some17 discussion with the Redevelopment18 Authority between now and the time this19 bill finally passes, or is slated to be20 passed. I would like to have at least21 some conversation.22 Yes, sir.23
I just want to24 make one further response to your query25 230 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 about notifications.2 This is simply a notification3 that we provide for this hearing. There4 is no formal notification of taking until5 after the ordinance is passed.6
And how7 long -- how much time is the notice of8 taking after it passes the ordinance?9 Say they didn't know anything10 about this hearing today and didn't show11 up and we passed the bill; how long after12 the passage of the bill would they be13 receiving notice that the property was14 slated for taking?15
I would have to16 get back to you with a precise answer in17 terms of the number of days.18
I don't19 know enough about the business.20 Certainly Councilman Jones represents the21 district; it's his bill. I understand22 his position on this.23 I have to take them at their24 word. I'm not saying that I would stop25 231 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 the bill, but I'm saying that somebody's2 got to know the length of time. And3 we've had this discussion on a number of4 occasions before, 'cause every time we5 have these bills, people pop up.6 Now, some of them have been7 sitting on properties and not paying8 taxes for thirty years, and I get that,9 and I shouldn't care about them.10 But there are other folks that11 perhaps have a legitimate issue, and we12 don't know what the length of time is13 that they get to negotiate or to protect14 themselves legally or to whatever.15 I mean, just as a general16 overall principle, not just this17 particular case.18
Yeah. I do19 want to comment that the ordinance, if20 it's passed, does not require us to do21 the taking.22
The taking will24 occur because it's permitted by the25 232 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 ordinance.2 But if there's a decision made3 kind of post the ordinance, particularly4 in conjunction with Councilman Jones's5 office to perhaps not pursue a particular6 taking, the RDA would more or less be7 responsive to that request.8
And I do9 understand that.10 But, I mean, again, we've been11 doing this for years and been involved in12 this process years. And folks, when they13 get notice, it may be the first time in14 their life that they've involved with15 this.16 I don't know what the condition17 of their business is and I'm not --18 that's really not the issue because the19 District Councilperson is the one that's20 going to make the decision anyway.21 But in the end, I mean, we have22 to have some protections here for folks23 either losing their home or losing their24 business. It can't be just, we're25 233 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 notifying you, by the way.2
Mr. Koonce,6 I'm not trying to take over your7 responsibility, Mr. Covington, but we do8 have Mr. Koonce here's who's been here9 forever, working on this matter. So I10 was just wondering if he could kind of11 just step to the plate and explain the12 process particularly as it relates to the13 timing.14 As the Chairman said, been15 here, done this. We should have this16 down to a science right now.17
Certainly.18 The ordinance, before it gets19 to City Council, there is an open board20 meeting at the Redevelopment Authority21 approving the redevelopment proposal.22 There's an open meeting at City Planning23 approving the redevelopment proposal.24 And then once passed those --25 234 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 it's passed in those two bodies, it's2 then forwarded to City Council.3 Notices are sent out, and there4 are hearings. They are advertised in5 papers with daily circulation for three6 executive weeks prior to the hearing.7 And we actually send notices to8 all known addresses prior to the hearing.9
Prior to10 the hearing or prior to the Redevelopment11 Authority --12
All right.14 Maybe that's the problem. Maybe it15 should go out before the open meeting of16 the Redevelopment Authority that nobody17 knows about.18 I mean, who goes through the19 paper and reads -- I mean, I don't -- I20 wouldn't suspect -- I don't read those21 notices every day, and I'm sure the22 average person doesn't.23
Well,24 actually, Mr. Chair, because we've been25 235 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 here so many times on this issue, we had2 worked out what we believe to be a3 reasonable process, and I suspect during4 the course of today's conversation, it5 may come up again.6 I can recall we were actually7 up in the sixth floor when our chambers8 were flooded, and we did a very9 aggressive condemnation process, and we10 were lucky to get out of there with our11 lives, and we put together what we --12
And we18 believed the process was established that19 the first contact was not a cold letter.20 It was actually an individual from the21 Redevelopment Authority going out and22 having a conversation about the process.23 Then you got the notification.24 So people at least understood25 236 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 what their rights were in terms of2 compensation.3 And as a result of that, we had4 a much smoother process. And I can5 recall one of the projects in the Cecil6 B. Moore Homeownership Zone, actually as7 a result of that, it was like 17 people8 who were relocated. Their homes were9 taken through condemnation. They10 actually were in a position to buy 17 of11 the new homes.12 So that process started13 working. We haven't been doing a lot of14 these here of late because of the15 freezing of the NTI process. So maybe we16 got a little rusty on that.17 But I would like for us to kind18 of get us back to that process where that19 first contact with the government is not20 just a cold letter, as I'm sure you all21 got.22
It was just very23 blindsided.24 (Applause.)25 237 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441
There was -- it2 was a cold letter, just like you're3 saying.4
And I just would6 say that it's a viable business that's7 been there 25 years.8 And I don't know if there's any9 standard of how many hours I have to be10 at a business for it to be considered11 viable, for him to see me there or not12 there.13 But, I mean, I would also like14 to say that the previous speakers, they15 did a great job with those vacant lots16 there that were very, very poorly kept17 for numbers of years.18
Well, I19 think, in this particular case, at least20 we have a commitment from the District21 Council and from RDA to have this22 discussion with you to try to figure out23 whether or not that property is necessary24 or whether or not there's something that25 238 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 could be done.2
And can I8 say for the record, I said, "I don't have9 a axe to grind."10
All right.13 (Indiscernible; parties talking14 over each other.)15
Anyone else19 to testify on this bill?20 (No response.)21
In an25 239 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 effort to maintain a quorum, what I want2 to do is, I want to recess temporarily3 the public hearing, and I want to enter4 into our public meeting, and I want to5 recognize the Council President to cast6 her vote for all amendments and bills7 that were on our calendar for today.8 (Addressing Council President9 Verna.) That's what I thought you were10 voting for, all bills and amendments.11 Okay.12 So let the record show that13 Council President is casting her vote in14 favor of all amendments and bills on our15 calendar today.16 We will now recess temporarily17 the public meeting and reconvene our18 public hearing.19 The next bill for consideration20 is Bill No. 110348, which is an ordinance21 approving the 39th Amendment to the22 Redevelopment Proposal for the Model23 Cities Urban Renewal Plan, being the area24 beginning at the northwest corner of25 240 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 Front Street and Spring Garden Street,2 including the 31st Amendment to the Urban3 Renewal Plan and the 27th Amendment to4 the Relocation Plan, which provides,5 inter alia, for the additional land6 acquisition of approximately fifty-five7 (55) properties for residential,8 institutional, and related uses; the9 provision of certain relocation services,10 as required by law; and declaring that11 condemnation is not imminent with respect12 to the Project.13 (Witness comes forward.)14
Please15 identify yourself for the record and16 proceed. And if we could please have all17 outside conversation taken outside.18 Please identify yourself for19 the record.20
Good afternoon,21 Mr. Chairman and members of the22 committee. My name, again, is Richard23 Reading, Director of Community Planning24 at the Philadelphia City Planning25 241 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 commission. And I'm testifying today in2 favor of Bill No. 110348, which is the3 39th Amended Redevelopment Proposal for4 Model Cities Urban Renewal Area.5 This proposal authorizes6 acquisition of approximately 557 properties, which are planned for a new8 wellness center and possible residential,9 institutional, and related uses.10 The proposal is in accord with11 the North Philadelphia Redevelopment Area12 Plan and was approved by the Planning13 Commission staff on April 21st of this14 year.15 I'll be available to answer any16 questions.17 Thank you.18
Thank you19 for your testimony.20 Please identify yourself for21 the record and proceed.22
Yes. My name,23 again, is Ed Covington, Executive24 Director of the Redevelopment Authority.25 242 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 Councilman Kenney, Chairman2 Verna, members of the committee, let me3 first --4
Let me first9 make a quick further response to the10 other questions around process.11 I believe what we can do is12 refresh the notification process. I will13 say there's always some challenge in14 finding the right people to notify in15 these instances.16 And so -- but I think the17 gravity of the matter certainly warrants18 an extra effort on our part, and we'll19 commit to doing that.20
I am here to22 speak in support of Bill No. 110348,23 which is the 39th Amendment to the24 Redevelopment Proposal and 31st Amendment25 243 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 to the Urban Renewal Plan for the Model2 Cities Urban Renewal Area.3 All of these properties will be4 acquired utilizing funds from the5 Neighborhood Transformation Initiative.6 The proposal and plan provide7 for the acquisition of a total of 558 properties. One vacant lot will be9 acquired on behalf of the Philadelphia10 Housing Authority. This property will be11 assemble with others already in the12 Housing Authority's ownership for the13 development of new-construction14 affordable housing.15 And 45 vacant lots, occupied16 structures, and vacant structures will17 be acquired on behalf of Project H.O.M.E.18 These properties will be developed into a19 wellness center. Project H.O.M.E. will20 manage the center, which will offer21 primary medical care as well as22 behavioral health care, physical fitness,23 physical therapy, dental care, and health24 education.25 244 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 Councilman Kenney, Chairman2 Verna, members of the committee, I3 respectfully request favorable4 consideration of Bill No. 110348 and5 would also ask for a suspension of6 Council rules to allow first reading on7 June 9, 2011.8
Thank you9 very much for your testimony.10 Any questions?11 Councilman Clarke.12
Thank you,13 Mr. Chair.14 I just want to put a little --15 some clarity on this particular16 acquisition.17 The parcel that is being18 acquired is actually not being acquired19 soley for Project H.O.M.E. Part of the20 development of this site will also21 incorporate the building of the new22 Martin Luther King Older Adult Center.23 Commissioner Slawson is here with her24 staff to talk briefly about the specifics25 245 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 of that development.2 So there will be two3 developments on the site of that parcel.4 The original request came from Project5 H.O.M.E. for the acquisition of the site.6 But subsequently, there was a7 conversation about moving the older-adult8 center to that site, so that would also9 be incorporated in that parcel, just for10 the record.11
Thank you15 very much for your testimony.16 Carolyn Placke, Don17 Billingsley, and Earl Lively.18 (Witnesses come forward.)19
Excuse me,20 sir. Could you do me a favor. Take a21 seat here. I want to get some of the22 testimony from the Recreation Department23 prior to your testimony. Okay, thank24 you.25 246 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 Is the Recreation Department2 here? Please come up.3 (Commissioner Slawson comes4 forward.)5 COUNCILMAN KENNEY:6 Commissioner, could you lead off just by7 identifying yourself for the record and8 proceed.9 COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Good10 afternoon, Councilman.11
Good12 afternoon.13 COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Susan14 Slawson, Recreation Commissioner.15
Please16 proceed.17 COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: I'm here18 because we have currently an older-adult19 center housed inside the Martin Luther20 King recreation facility.21 The seniors there have outgrown22 that facility. The space is no longer23 adequate to house the number of seniors24 that attend and use that facility on a25 247 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 daily basis. We have upwards of 150-plus2 seniors that come in for various3 programming day after day.4 And this is a great opportunity5 that Recreation has. And Capital6 Projects will be working along with the7 City and Councilman Clarke to ensure that8 we can offer a better, larger location9 with even more security.10 The facility that they're11 housing currently, the Martin Luther King12 facility, is a huge facility and -- but13 it's used primarily for recreation. And14 they have a small area that they're using15 right now for all of their programs.16
Any17 questions for the Commissioner?18 (No questions.)19
Anyone else20 here to testify on that particular21 portion of it?22 Please identify yourself for23 the record.24
My name is Carolyn25 248 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 Placke. I'm Director of Housing and2 Community Development for Project3 H.O.M.E.4 As Councilman Clarke5 referenced, Project H.O.M.E. is6 committed, a hundred percent committed,7 to the collocation of a wellness center8 as well as the older-adult center9 referenced earlier.10 Since 2005, I would say, we've11 been engaged in conversations, very12 productive conversations, with folks at13 the senior center. They have been aware14 of our wellness center plans and also15 understanding of an intergenerational16 component of it.17 So essentially, what that means18 is that the wellness center, while it19 will primarily have primary-care,20 fitness, physical therapy, O.T.,21 behavioral health, and so on and so22 forth, folks from the senior center23 are -- you know, the intent is that there24 will be a collaboration between both25 249 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 Project H.O.M.E. and the Martin Luther2 King Senior Center.3 My understanding at this point4 is that they should be two separate sites5 on that single parcel. And we're very6 excited to be working with the City on7 this.8
Okay.9 Thank you very much.10 Any questions?11 (No questions.)12
Actually,15 Councilman, I have a couple questions on16 this, Project H.O.M.E.17
Could you20 talk a little bit more about the21 development, the cost of the wellness22 center, and the number of jobs?23
In a little25 250 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 more specifics? It's a pretty2 significant development.3
Yeah. The4 wellness center currently is still in5 predesign. Our construction budget looks6 to be about $12 million. We will be7 going after new market tax credits on8 this particular development.9 Currently, we have a number of10 fairly significant funders in this.11 Jefferson University Hospital is our12 primary partner in this as well as the13 YMCA.14 In terms of job creation, we're15 looking at obviously over a hundred jobs.16 For those that are unfamiliar17 with Project H.O.M.E., we are very well18 respected in meeting minority business19 goals and objectives. In fact, many20 times, we surpass those goals and21 objectives.22 Once the wellness center is23 built, a percentage of jobs will be24 allocated to folks from the community.25 251 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 And then, also, in terms of2 paraprofessional job offerings, and then3 there will also be professional medical4 personnel onsite as well.5 So we're looking at6 approximately 30 professional jobs and7 upwards that equal amount to folks from8 the community.9
Thank you11 very much for your testimony.12 And Mr. Lively. And is there a13 Thomasina... Is there a Kirk Crawford?14
He had to16 leave? How about Thomasina? I only have17 one name. I'm sorry. Is there someone18 named Thomasina here? 2138 Cecil B.19 Moore, owner of 2183 Cecil B. Moore.20 (No response.)21
Can I just22 see a show of hands of who else wants to23 testify on this bill. Okay, could you24 please come forward.25 252 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 (Witnesses come forward.)2
My name is Earl9 Lively. I'm actually a community10 volunteer for North Philadelphia. I am11 not a legal attorney; I have no legal12 college background or anything of that.13 What I do is, I help people in14 the Fifth District. And what I would15 just like to say really quick is that not16 what qualifies me, but as living and a17 resident in that area, I have raised18 thousands of dollars.19 I have raised about $7,000 for20 this particular center that we're talking21 about. We're talking about the adjusted22 to the Martin Luther King Community23 Center, which is adjusted to the24 older-adult center.25 253 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 I was a former vice president2 of that board for two years ago with3 Councilman Clarke's deputy Curtis4 Wilkerson.5 I volunteered. All of these6 are North Philadelphia, in the Fifth7 District, the district where I live.8 I volunteered for the soup9 kitchen down at the Church of the10 Advocate for the last three years. I11 have helped not just with dealing with12 getting fresh fruit, fresh vegetables13 from our new development, which has been14 around for sometime, the Fresh Grocer,15 which I have a partner with Jeff, which16 is the general manager, which I've gotten17 food, bread, things of that nature that18 helps to support about 500 homeless daily19 there.20 I have also helped them provide21 for all of the senior centers in North22 Philadelphia, the Lehigh, Senator23 Kitchen's, North Philadelphia, which is24 not far from where we're at, and the25 254 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 Martin Luther King Older Adult Center.2 I have raised hundreds of3 dollars as well as thousands of dollars4 for the Martin Luther King, Jr.5 Recreation Center, state-of-the-art6 computers, a stove.7 I also have worked with8 Councilman Clarke's office on what we9 needed to do to better that facility,10 which is with new air-conditioning. Over11 a hundred thousand dollars, but I was12 told that that would be taken care of.13 So I backed off of that, thanks to14 Councilman Clarke.15 I also have created in North16 Philadelphia a safe-haven project within17 the last four years, three years for18 about 1500 kids to keep them off the19 streets during the Halloween time, which20 all our area businesses in that area --21 most of the businesses that I'm talking22 about, I'm talking about the businesses23 that feed off all of our residents as24 well as our Temple students, Rita's Water25 255 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 Ice.2
Well, I'm only9 telling you this, and I think it's really10 important, because when people speak, we11 need to know what is your position and12 what are you doing for the community and13 why is your opinion so important.14 And I think my opinion is --15 should be vital here because I am active.16 I live there, I sleep there, I do what17 we're supposed to do.18
And that's why.20 Because if you look in this room, there's21 probably maybe a handful that on five22 fingers, when the room should be crowded23 with a project like this, because I am in24 support of Councilman Clarke's project.25 256 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 I'm just letting you hear why I am2 expressing who I am.3
No, I7 understand. I'm just -- I really need to8 know what you feel about the bill and if9 you want to see it passed or --10
In terms of the11 new center, I was appointed back in12 September of 2010 from the Martin Luther13 King Advisory Board to be a spokesperson14 to hopefully get these talk up again,15 because this is not the first time that16 it's been talked about. It's probably17 been talked about maybe about ten years.18 Drawings have been drawed up --19 designs, rather. There's been a lot of20 talks. Nothing went through.21 So this time, what I did was, I22 went out and I spoke to Councilman23 Clarke's office, I spoke with the24 Redevelopment office, I spoke with a few25 257 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 other people that I've worked on this2 project with, which was Mr. Odom, which3 had some property over there.4 And, naturally, because of5 discussing with some advisors that I need6 to drop that, which I did.7 Am I in support of this8 project? Yes, I am.9 But in closing, what I would10 like for this board to know is that I11 understand that you have been on this12 board probably for many years. You13 probably have a lot of experience, not14 just ten years, fifteen years. There's15 probably over a hundred years' worth of16 experience there.17 But as a new breed here in18 Philadelphia, someone that wants to work19 with the City, someone that's opinion20 should be respected because of my21 involvement, not just with the City of22 Philadelphia but my concern for North23 Philadelphia.24 I am not opposing Councilman25 258 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 Clarke's project or in disagreement with2 Mrs. -- our commissioner, who thought I3 was very opposed to this. I am in very4 support of anything to enhance the5 redevelopment of our city.6 Thank you.7
Thank you8 very much.9 Please identify yourself for10 the record, whoever is next.11
My name is12 Anthony Tribble. I own a property on --13 matter of fact, President and Council, I14 own a property at 2107 West Nicholas15 Street. It's right behind where the16 wellness -- part of where the wellness17 center is going to built.18 And I have -- the property that19 I have, well, it's been in my family over20 70 years. And right now, this is -- it's21 a property that I have rented out. The22 people that's been in the property for23 over 35 years.24 Now, I'm on a fixed income.25 259 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 Now, I'm all well for fixing up North2 Philadelphia. I've been in North Philly3 all my life. And I see where North4 Philly is now, and I would like to see it5 come back up again. You know, I mean, I6 have no problem with that.7 But I want the people that's in8 my property to be compensated for. I9 want them to be able to move into another10 property or be replaced.11 And I also, because I'm on a12 fixed income. Now, the income that I was13 getting from the property, I would like14 to know whether or not the Council or the15 Housing Authority is going to compensate16 me for that, compensate me well enough17 where that I can look forward to saying,18 Okay, well, look, you all looked out for19 me, I have no problem with you all doing20 what you have to do to fix up North21 Philadelphia.22
Thank you23 for your testimony.24 Please identify yourself for25 260 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 the record.2
My name is Allison3 Odom. I come before you on behalf of my4 husband, Danny Odom.5 We own properties at 21, 24,6 26, 28, 30, and 32, a big part of the7 location that Project H.O.M.E. desires to8 have the wellness center.9 We have been in the furniture10 business for 33 years in that particular11 location. We would have loved to have12 stayed. But, unfortunately, things just13 didn't make it possible for us to do so.14 We have been trying to sell our15 property for quite some time.16 Unfortunately, because of so many taxes17 and interest and penalties we haven't18 been able to be forgiven of, we have not19 been able to go through with settlement20 of our property.21 We just recently had a young22 man about a good three weeks ago who23 became very, very interested in buying24 the property. Unfortunately, we ran out25 261 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 of time when we got this letter in the2 mail from you guys, dated May the 10th,3 that this particular meeting was today,4 and did not give us enough time to work5 things out so that we could sell this6 property.7 We hope -- we were just upset8 when we heard, whether or not we heard9 correctly or not of the words "eminent10 domain." Unless we have the information11 incorrect, that means something will be12 taken from you.13 It is not the City's fault that14 we ran out of time, so to speak, in15 trying to get our business together to16 try to sell this property. This is the17 last property that we own because we are18 trying to get out of debt. We want to19 pay our bills, our taxes.20 Whoever goes with this21 property, we're not ever trying to go22 back in business; we just want to get out23 of debt. But when you do eminent domain,24 that means -- you know what that means;25 262 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 you're not getting out of debt; it's2 going to be taken. And we're just very3 sorry to hear and hope that it don't have4 to go down this way.5 This particular gentleman who's6 interested in buying our property still7 is interested if we had a little more8 time. And if he don't be the person to9 buy our property, and if Project H.O.M.E.10 gets that particular location, will we11 still get out of debt is a big question,12 which doesn't seem to be yes to13 (indiscernible).14 So this is why I am here today,15 on behalf of my husband, who had to16 leave. This is our concern. We're not17 against our project; we just trying to18 get out of debt; we want to pay our19 bills.20
Thank you21 for your testimony.22 Sir, sir.23 (Witness comes forward.)24
Good2 afternoon. Please identify yourself for3 the record.4
Yeah, good5 afternoon. My name is Russell Robertson.6 I'm the president of the Advisory Council7 for Martin Luther King. I'm the8 president of the six (indiscernible) of9 centers in Philadelphia: Mann, West Oak10 Lane, South Philly, Juniata Park,11 Northeast, and, of course, king.12 I'm just here today because I'm13 in total agreeance [sic] with the14 project. But I'm lost at one point. Is15 Project H.O.M.E. going to build the16 center, or is the City going to build the17 center?18 I was under the impression that19 the City is going to build the center.20 It would be City-owned, not Project21 H.O.M.E. So I need some clarification on22 that.23
Councilman24 Clarke.25 264 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481
Initially,6 the -- it was an attempt to have an7 arrangement where a building was going to8 be built, one building. And a part of9 that building was -- within that building10 was going to be the older-adult center.11
When we met13 with the group, people were not14 comfortable with coexisting in the same15 building, and they wanted their own16 building after having gone to Juniata17 Park and seeing the older-adult center18 there.19
So the21 issue was money. It's taken us too long,22 but we finally identified enough money23 from Capital Projects. As a matter of24 fact, we have two of our Capital Project25 265 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 members here who are actually working on2 the building. So it's now going to be a3 separate building that will be built and4 funded by the City of Philadelphia.5 We're hoping that -- and I6 understand that a couple of these7 State-elected officials are also looking8 at putting in some money. But we, the9 City, are committed to building that10 building to accommodate a new facility.11
So we will13 own. And the City, I guess, along with14 PCA, right?15
Currently17 will continue to operate at the new18 location.19
Okay. One more20 question. Will the constituents -- I21 hate to -- let me rephrase that.22 Will the people who are at23 (indiscernible) presently, will they have24 any type of input on what's going to go25 266 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 into the building? I know square footage2 is one of the keys, but you can have five3 blocks and still not utilize it4 correctly.5 So will we have any input in6 what goes into our building? Will we7 have any meetings with the architects --8
-- or the10 planning board of what's going to go into11 the building?12
And I don't15 know if you were there actually. I think16 it was, like, three weeks, four weeks,17 maybe a month ago.18
You were21 there?22 (Indiscernible; parties talking23 over each other.)24
Well, you2 know what? The Commissioner is here. I3 guess she can respond to that.4 (Commissioner Slawson returns5 to witness table.6
Please7 identify yourself for the record.8 COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Susan9 Slawson, Recreation Commissioner.10 I just wanted to make one11 statement, that PCA, we do get funding12 from PCA, but the older-adult centers are13 run by Recreation staff, Parks and14 Recreation staff.15
Okay.16 COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: And17 that's who will be housed and operating18 the facility once it's moved across as a19 part of the Project H.O.M.E. project.20
And then24 there was a follow-up question. The25 268 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 gentleman basically wanted to know, would2 the older adults have input into the3 early-on process, the architectural, the4 design, and the ultimate building of5 that?6 And from my perspective, yes,7 but I know you were at that meeting, and8 you met up at the site with management of9 the older-adult center.10 COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: The11 answer to your question is absolutely.12 They will have the input. And when we13 start the meetings, we'll ensure that14 they're a part of those meetings because15 they're going to use the facility, so16 it's important that we include them in17 with whatever decisions that we make.18
I'd like to19 thank City Council, the Commissioner, and20 everybody who's involved in the project.21 God bless you. Thank you for our22 building.23
Thank you.24 We needed that.25 269 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 And Mr. Chair, if I can just2 briefly -- there was two other3 individuals that testified earlier. If I4 can briefly respond to a couple of5 questions and concerns they raised.6
I know that8 Miss Dunbar from the RDA is here. But9 the question with respects to you getting10 compensated for your properties, by law,11 the Redevelopment Authority is12 required -- in this case, the City, using13 City dollars, is required to pay you the14 fair market value of your property in15 that area.16 That value actually may be17 high, higher than normal, because a lot18 of people have been buying property up19 there to build student housing. So in20 this case, that might be a good thing21 'cause the value has now been elevated as22 a result of all of the recent purchases23 in the immediate area.24 I understand that with respects25 270 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 to properties that have tenants -- sir,2 in your case, Miss Dunbar from the3 Redevelopment Authority works not with4 only owner-occupied but works with the5 tenants to make sure that people are6 adequately relocated.7 In the past, actually in a8 development not too far from there, we9 were actually able to relocate people in10 that immediate area in better actual11 conditions than they were. So we will12 work with you in every imaginable way to13 make sure that those individuals and14 yourself is okay.15 And, Miss Odom, I'm very aware16 of your situation. And knowing your17 husband, he actually was one of the North18 Philadelphia residents that helped raise19 me, and we have some issues that we're20 going to be working -- continuing to work21 on as it relates to some of the22 liabilities to both the State and City so23 we make sure that you come out of this24 whole, okay?25 271 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 Thank you.2
Excuse me,7 Chairman. I just wanted -- that's why I8 sat here for so long.9 But Councilman Clarke, I wanted10 you to be aware that in the beginning of11 this process, it was brought to my12 attention that they wanted me to13 facilitate the talks into this new14 center.15 So I just want to make sure16 that Commissioner Slawson as well as17 yourselves or anybody else that's18 involved with this project does not have19 any problem working with me because of20 the fact of it. I have been the voice,21 not a bad voice, but a voice to have22 these talks continue, whether or not it's23 not in the selection of the contractor;24 that's not my job. I am not an expertee25 272 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103481 [sic] in that.2 My thing is to keep these talks3 going because this is not the first time4 that this has happened. This is, like,5 the third time. So I just want to make6 sure that none of you have any problem7 working with me, because I am a resource8 for the community.9 I am not just a person that's10 just not sitting there. I bring11 resources to you, I help you, I work with12 you. I don't want to be the devil or the13 advocate in here. Look at my track14 record.15 And that not only goes for you;16 that goes for the whole City Hall. I'm17 just asking you to work with me. So if18 no one has no problem working with me,19 I'm just saying, when it comes down to20 this new center, I will be an input on21 it, and I will be at the tables. And,22 hopefully, as we talk, we will take the23 information back to the seniors who24 utilize that facility on a daily basis.25 273 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451
Thank you4 very much.5 The next bill for consideration6 is Bill No. 110345, which is an ordinance7 approving the Third Amendment of the8 Redevelopment Proposal for the West9 Parkside Urban Renewal Area being the10 area generally bounded by Parkside Avenue11 on the north; Belmont Avenue and Girard12 Avenue on the east; Lancaster Avenue on13 the South; and 52nd Street and the14 easterly Right-of-Way of the Pennsylvania15 Central RR Line on the west, including16 the Third Amendment to the Urban Renewal17 Plan and Relocation Plan, which provides,18 inter alia, for the additional land19 acquisition of approximately 5420 properties for residential and related21 uses; the provision of certain relocation22 services, as required by law; and23 declaring that condemnation is not24 imminent with respect to the Project.25 274 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 (Witnesses come forward.)2
Please3 identify yourself for the record and4 proceed.5
Good afternoon,6 Mr. Chairman. Again, I'm Richard7 Redding, Director of Community Planning8 at the Philadelphia City Planning9 Commission.10 I'm here today to testify in11 support of the Third Amended12 Redevelopment Proposal for the West13 Parkside Urban Renewal Area, which would14 authorize the acquisition of15 approximately 54 properties, plan for16 residential and related use in the17 vicinity of 52nd and Viola Streets, in18 West Philadelphia.19 The proposal's in accord with20 the Parkside Lancaster Redevelopment Plan21 Area plan, and the proposal was approved22 by Planning Commission staff on April23 21st of this year.24 I'm here to help answer any25 275 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 questions. Thank you.2
Thank you3 very much.4 Please identify yourself for5 the record and proceed.6
Good afternoon7 again, Councilman Kenney. My name is Ed8 Covington, Executive Director of the9 Redevelopment Authority of Philadelphia.10 Councilman Kenney, members of11 the committee, I'm here to speak in12 support of Bill No. --13
I'm sorry.14 Mr. Covington, could you just again15 either pull the microphone closer or16 speak more loudly.17
Sure. I'm here18 to speak in support of Bill No. 110345,19 the Third Amendment to the Parkside20 Lancaster Redevelopment Proposal and the21 Third Amendment to the West Parkside22 Urban Renewal Plan for the West Parkside23 Urban Renewal Area.24 This bill would authorize the25 276 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 Redevelopment Authority to acquire 542 properties. The acquisition will be3 funded with NTI bonds. Community4 Ventures, in partnership with the5 Parkside Civic Association, has proposed6 to develop the following:7 Eight properties that will be8 assembled with Authority-owned properties9 for the development of 25 to 30 units of10 multifamily buildings;11 Twelve properties to be12 developed as a small multifamily13 building;14 Thirty properties to be15 developed into single-family16 homeownership;17 And four properties to be18 developed as a community garden.19 This project will promote the20 elimination of blight and result in21 expanded housing opportunities for low-22 and moderate-income individuals and23 restore properties to the tax rolls.24 Councilman Kenney and members25 277 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 of the committee, I respectfully request2 favorable consideration of Bill No.3 110345 and would also ask for the4 suspension of Council rules to allow5 first reading on June 9, 2011.6
Thank you,9 Mr. Chairman and members of the10 committee.11 Very different from the 59th12 and Market Street project, where we're13 talking about vegetable gardens and a14 existing business, we're talking about15 the issue of a number of residents, a16 church, and also a business that operates17 in that particular area.18 I would put in a frame of19 reference that this and the members of20 this community have suffered through the21 downturn of the economy, seeing the22 neighborhood go from a blighted community23 and begin to show the sparks of24 redevelopment in the area.25 278 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 When we look at the Town West2 project, which we'll hear about, I3 believe testified to, there was4 $55 million worth of investment put in5 that area, which was not just developed6 the neighborhood but it transformed the7 neighborhood.8 The second part of this is to9 expand beyond that individual development10 and move into a greater connection with11 the community, existing houses to try to12 maintain it for low- and moderate-income13 people.14 You're going to hear some15 people testify in favor for; and,16 obviously, you're going to hear some17 people testify with concern against. And18 I understand that and take it very19 seriously, because these aren't people I20 don't know; these are people, some of21 whom I grew up with, and some of them who22 have been stakeholders longer than I have23 in this community.24 But as we contemplate what we25 279 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 should do, we should keep in mind the2 fact that we established the prior areas,3 that this is the beginning of a process.4 This was notification that was given,5 that probably should have had a community6 meeting in the front of it so that people7 didn't think that this was an eviction8 notice.9 (Applause.)10
And we're11 not incapable of saying when things12 didn't happen in a way that probably13 should have, and we're not too big to14 correct that by having a sequence of15 meetings afterwards to try to work out16 things where we can.17 So I want to start that with18 that tone, to let the community know that19 this is not some occupying force that's20 just going to roll over their rights.21 This is a discussion about the highest22 and best use of the future of this23 community.24 And I want to thank you for25 280 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 your indulgence, Mr. Chairman.2
Thank you,3 Councilman.4 Any questions for these5 witnesses?6 (No questions.)7
Seeing8 none, the Chair calls Lucinda Hudson,9 Steve Kauffman, and Jim Burnett. Are10 they in the room?11 (Witnesses come forward.)12
How many13 other folks in the room are intending to14 testify? Okay, thank you.15 Please take any chair you'd16 like and identify yourself for the17 record. Pull that microphone closer to18 you. Thank you.19 Please identify yourself for20 the record and proceed.21
I'm Lucinda22 Hudson, and I'm the President of the23 Parkside Center Association of24 Philadelphia. I'm here today to testify25 281 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 on the Bill 110345.2 And the first thing that I3 would like to say is that the Parkside4 community have been engaged in the5 process of talking about rehabbing6 housing for the last six years. We have7 a community briefing every month. Each8 and every resident get a flyer put in9 their door every month. The third10 Thursday of the month has been our11 community briefing for six years since12 our last project.13 We also are working on a14 strategy plan with the consultants who15 have engaged the community, which this16 project is mentioned. I just wanted to17 be clear on that before I proceed.18 The vision that we have talked19 about in the community briefing with the20 community and at the board level is the21 fact that we wanted to create a multi-22 generational community where residents23 live, work, play, and enjoy a better24 quality of life. We also would like to25 282 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 stabilize the neighborhood, prevent2 gentrification, and prevent speculators,3 which is happening in Philadelphia in the4 Parkside area now.5 The economic development6 opportunity also. The impact of our7 redevelopment project that we finished in8 2006 created a great impact on the Park9 Town West Center, helped create jobs;10 there's like 6 to 800 permanent jobs11 there. There was construction jobs in12 the process of that.13 The project that we are14 embarking on now will entail businesses15 and commercial, senior housing, and that16 will also create a economic impact for17 our community.18 There's also -- the project has19 -- the project we finished in 200620 decreased the crime rate in our21 community, decreased the crime rate.22 Some of the abandoned buildings that we23 rehabbed in 2006 was a drug haven; drug24 dealers used those properties to hide25 283 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 their drugs and things of that nature.2 So it -- this project will3 address several things. It will create a4 better quality of life for our seniors5 and youth, it will create economic6 development and jobs, and it will also7 help us to cut down on the crime that8 infests our neighborhood.9
Please,10 whoever is next, identify yourself for11 the record and proceed.12
Hi. I'm Steve13 Kauffman with Community Ventures. We're14 a nonprofit developer, been around for15 about 20 years, and are working with16 Parkside Association on this development.17 And I guess about ten years ago, we did a18 19-home sales package with Parkside.19 What I'd like to do is do a20 little lecture based on these pictures21 but be very quick about it since we've22 all been here for five hours.23 This is a rendering of an24 apartment building that's going to be25 284 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 constructed on the west side of 52nd2 Street, where the old gas station is.3 And it's going to be mixed use, but it's4 going to be seniors upstairs. And we do5 hope to have a restaurant that can play6 off the various museums in the area, such7 as Please Touch.8 Over here, this gives you a9 sense of what is being acquired for what10 purpose. This is where the apartment11 building will be here. We're going to12 refurbish a community park here. There's13 going to be a refurbished park here, a14 small (indiscernible) here.15 And most of the orange is going16 to be follow-up projects of single-family17 homes, which will be sold at affordable18 prices.19 This is a preliminary rendering20 of the site for the initial project,21 which is, again, the apartment building,22 the garden, multifamily, and you can see23 some of the single families here.24 This development is under a25 285 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 tight timeline. It's going to be going2 in for low-income housing tax credits in3 October, so it's important that we get4 our ducks lined up, because that process5 is extraordinarily competitive at the6 State level.7 And it's also very important8 that we deal -- that we have a good story9 to tell the State about any blight that's10 visible in the area, because their site11 criteria have gotten very strict.12 So it's important that most of13 the properties in this package are14 actually going through the process.15 I also just wanted to say one16 quick thing, if I could, which is that17 there are three homeowner-occupied18 properties in this part of the19 development, on Viola Street. Those20 properties are not needed for the tax21 credit development, there's nothing22 time-sensitive about them, but these are23 three homeowners who are living in homes24 that are in very poor shape25 286 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 And Mrs. Hudson and I have2 started to talk to them, but if they do3 not get a package from the RDA by way of4 relocation benefits and compensation5 that's acceptable to them, we will back6 right off; there's no reason for us to7 run over them.8 So that's one assurance also9 that we can give Councilman Jones now10 that -- if those three homeowners, the11 only three here involved, are not happy,12 they're not going to lose their homes,13 but given the way the relocation benefits14 work, they will probably benefit and get15 into better housing.16 (Mr. Kauffman is asked to speak17 louder.)18
Oh, I was just19 mentioning that in this acquisition20 package, down here, on Viola Street,21 there are three homeowners on here.22 These are all homes that are not needed23 for our larger development package, which24 is the one that's time-sensitive. And25 287 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 these homes would later be a part of the2 single-family sales package.3 And what Mrs. Hudson and I have4 been saying, at least to the first person5 we met with, is that that if you do not6 get a relocation package, meaning7 benefits that enable you to move into a8 house that you like, if you don't get a9 reasonable offer that improves your life,10 then we will back off.11 And I'm sure the Councilman12 will see to that too, but we're going to13 work with each one of you closely, but if14 it doesn't work out for the three15 homeowners, there's no reason for us16 to -- we're not going to come back and17 argue and say, Oh, we need your property18 'cause it's critical. It's not critical19 --20
This just21 begs this question, then: If it's not22 critical to the development, then why are23 they on the list in the first place?24 (Applause.)25 288 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451
I mean, I'm4 not -- I just don't -- and this is really5 not directed at you; it's more directed6 at the Redevelopment Authority.7 Why do we have properties on8 the list that are being testified that9 are not critical to the project? Why10 scare these folks and put their homes on11 the list?12
Well, we've13 talked to one of them, and I don't know14 whether we've talked to the two other15 homeowners, but that is a situation where16 we've been reaching out on a timely17 basis.18 The homes are in very poor19 shape. Some of them are threatening20 other homeowners because they're in such21 bad shape.22 The whole process of23 condemnation and then giving them24 relocation benefits can be a way of --25 289 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451
An, again,2 I'm not involved in this project and I3 trust Councilman Jones's judgment, and I4 will go along with his opinion.5 But it seems to me the major6 project is the one we're looking at with7 the Centennial Grill and with the8 apartments.9
So why12 can't we be dealing with that when13 everybody's kind of happy?14 (Applause.)15
Well, okay. In16 general, we -- in a broad sense, we need17 to acquire most of these oranges on the18 map here because PHFA, the funder of the19 Centennial project, will need us to show20 that other things are going on in the21 neighborhood and that there's a22 commitment from the City to follow up.23 But with regard to the three24 homeowners, in the past in Parkside --25 290 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 and other people might be able to testify2 to this -- in our last development, we3 were able to relocate people who were4 moved for Park Town West, if I have the5 name right, into homes we had just6 rehabbed, and some of them moved in for,7 free using the relocation benefits.8 So these folks, if they choose9 to available themselves of this10 opportunity, will benefit.11
And I think12 that's terrific. And, again, Councilman13 Jones is a good district councilperson,14 and he will protect his folks; I have no15 problem with that.16 But I don't see why we need --17 on three instances now with these18 takings, we have to go through this19 tortuous process for people who aren't20 familiar with this process. I mean,21 we're at least familiar with it.22 (Applause.)23
We know24 when we say that it -- that taking the25 291 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 property is not imminent but it's in the2 law, what it means. But to them, it3 means that -- you know, it's serious.4 And maybe it's just the system5 that's flawed, or maybe it's State6 regulations that are flawed.7 (Applause.)8
But9 something's -- I mean, I've been through10 this 50 times, 100 times where these poor11 people come in here and they're scared to12 death, and I don't think there's a need13 for it half the time or three-quarters of14 the time.15 But that's -- you know, it is16 what it is.17 (Applause.)18
And I21 think -- please, I am not directing the22 criticism at you. I'm -- if there are23 facets of the process that force you to24 do these things, I think they need to be25 292 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 addressed.2 And I recognize you're very3 clear on the record that certain houses4 are not critical to the project, and if5 they don't get what they think is6 appropriate for their compensation that7 you won't take it. I hear all of that.8 I just don't know why we have9 to go through this every time we have one10 of these hearings.11
I can think of15 ways in which all of us could do things a16 bit better, and Councilman Clarke17 addressed.18
But sometimes21 those developers can move a bit more22 quickly in talking to people.23
Enough24 said.25 293 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 Yes, sir. Please identify2 yourself for the record.3
Yes. My name's4 James Burnett. I'm the Executive5 Director for the West Philadelphia6 Financial Services Institution and also7 the Chairman of West (indiscernible), the8 owners of the Park West Town Center.9 I'm here today to talk about10 the activity that we did with both11 Community Ventures and Parkside12 Association in the relocation of 2713 families when we built the Park West Town14 Center.15 Part of that process was to16 meet with pretty much every property17 owner prior to a discussion of taking18 their property early on in the process,19 and we think that we were able to not20 only diffuse some folks who were not21 involved in that process, meaning22 outsiders who wanted to come in and23 create a problem, but also to make the24 homeowners understand that there was a25 294 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 benefit for them to actually do this with2 us, because it was in not only their best3 interests but also the best interests of4 the community.5 We were fortunate enough that6 that at the time we wanted to build Park7 West Town Center that Community Ventures8 and Parkside Association was in the9 process of rehabbing enough properties10 that for whoever wanted to remain in the11 community, we were able to place them in12 these properties. Some of those13 homeowners are there today, and they can14 speak on their own to whether that15 process worked for them or not.16 But we feel that we did a good17 job in keeping both the needs of the18 community on one hand positive and also19 the needs of the individual and the20 business owners on the other hand21 positive.22 And I wanted to say that WPFSI23 and Park West Town Center, we support24 this project. It benefits the economic25 295 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 development that has been going on in the2 community and also will continue to help3 and reduce the amount of crime that goes4 on in the area.5 Thank you.6
Thank you,9 Mr. Chairman.10 Just a simple question. Good11 afternoon, Mr. Burnett. Who's going to12 own the properties that will be taken?13
That I'm not sure14 of because we have -- we are not actually15 part of the deal itself, but we are here16 to support the project going forward.17
There will be20 two sets of owners. A limited21 partnership will be formed to own the22 Centennial Village properties because23 that's a low-income housing tax-credit24 deal, and we have to form a limited25 296 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 partnership.2 The other properties, which are3 (indiscernible) homeowners, of course,4 will be owned by the ultimate end-users,5 which are the homeowners.6
Okay. Who's7 going to own them in the meantime? I8 understand that you are forming a limited9 partnership. Who's forming a limited10 partnership?11
Okay. Well,16 Community Ventures will. We've done this17 a number of times before. It's standard18 in dealing with low-income housing tax19 credits.20 We go find an investor like a21 large cooperation to own 99 percent of22 the limited partnership. They get the23 tax credits. They pay for about 8024 percent of the development cost. And25 297 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 then they get out after 15 years, and2 that reverts back to nonprofit ownership,3 in essence.4
So that's5 different from how the Park West Town6 Center was developed --7
-- where10 West Philadelphia Financial Institution11 owned it.12
I don't know13 what the ownership interest was there.14 (Addressing Mr. Burnett.) But15 do you want to answer that quickly? Then16 I can get back.17
Yeah. Our18 ownership -- and we have a partnership19 with the Goldenberg Group. And in that20 ownership, we own 30 percent of the21 project, and Goldenberg owns 70 percent22 of the project, and WPFSI retained all of23 the land in the project.24
And that's25 298 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 not going to be the case under this2 project?3
Some it is6 affordable housing; not all of it7 affordable housing. But there's no8 reason why a financial services9 institution that does more than just10 commercial and industrial but does11 housing as well as part of its mission12 cannot own property.13
Right. Well, I18 guess one reason is that Community19 Ventures has done a number of these20 transactions and has the credibility with21 the State to obtain the funding, but --22
And so, you23 can create an equity partnership with a24 community development financial25 299 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 institution.2
There's not much7 of one to create it because, as I said8 before, the outside investor, which is9 the corporation that receives the tax10 credits from the federal government, owns11 actually 99.9 percent, if you can believe12 it, of the partnership.13 The general partner, which is a14 subsidiary of Community Ventures, owns a15 tenth of a percent. And the reason for16 that is that the limited partner is the17 one that invests the cash into the18 project in return for receiving the tax19 benefits, and they have to own the vast20 majority of it.21 Eventually, they are taken out,22 after about fifteen years.23
I get all of24 that, it's a great project, but when I25 300 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 ask the question, Who is going to own the2 land? that's an important question to me.3 It was an important question to me as we4 talked about the empowerment zone and how5 that funding was going to be structured6 and the fact that there was a community7 development financial institution set up8 and the fact that it was going to own the9 land for that project.10 And so, when you come to the11 table with a community organization12 community development financial13 institution, I want to know what their14 financial stake is and whether they're15 going to own any of the land. And that's16 an important question to me.17
Well, I think --18 I don't really know how else to answer19 the question.20
No, I didn't say3 that. I said that we're going to form a4 limited partnership.5
And you're9 going to own 90 percent of it.10 (Indiscernible; parties talking11 over each other.)12
No. We -- the13 limited partner, which is an outside14 investor such as a bank or a large15 corporation that comes in through a16 broker, they own 99 percent of the17 limited-partnership entity that owns the18 project.19 So there's no really no20 ownership interest to share with21 anybody's else, because they own almost22 all of it.23 All they receive is tax24 benefits and savings. They eventually25 302 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 leave after 15 years. And at that2 15-year mark, it's very easy to structure3 an ownership relationship with Jim's4 organization or Lucinda's because at that5 point --6
You can do11 that. And this is the point at which we12 discussed that.13
Well, right.17 Yeah, we will certainly sit down with18 both of them and figure that out. We19 haven't -- it hasn't come up yet as a20 matter of discussion.21
Thank you3 very much.4 Are there any other questions5 for these witnesses.6 (No further questions.)7
Seeing8 none, thank you very much.9 And I do want to reiterate that10 I do think this project is extremely11 important for this neighborhood and will12 be a total benefit to the neighborhood.13 And I just want to try to get14 us around -- and I didn't mean to offend15 if I did, to get us around some of these16 housing issues, 'cause people are afraid.17 And I do appreciate the hard18 work you've been doing and the great19 projects you've done, and I'm sure this20 one will be also. So thank you.21
Dennis Lee,25 304 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 Diane Marshall, Shelton Roland. And any2 representative from Macedonia Pentecostal3 Church, please come forward. How many4 folks from the church are going to5 testify? Is everyone testifying or --6
Whoever is11 ready, please identify yourself for the12 record.13
And I am a18 resident and a relocator from the first19 project that was done.20 I am just here to testify, I21 guess, that how the process worked for22 me, moving out of a house where I was not23 able to really do much with it, and then24 be able to move into a home now that it's25 305 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 beautiful. I'm in a area where I don't2 have to worry about breaking in or vacant3 houses around.4 So I am here just to say that I5 agree with the process and hope that it6 goes through because it's something that7 will be better for the community.8
Yes. Good21 afternoon. My name is Pastor Valerie22 Leonard. I am now the pastor of23 Macedonia Pentecostal Church of24 Deliverance, where my mother was the25 306 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 pastor in that community for over 412 years.3
My comments6 are that I'm not on drugs, I've served in7 that community, I grew up in that8 community from a child, I lived in that9 community. My children went to Heston10 School in that community.11 My mother served until she12 passed in 2008. She served the13 community, she housed the homeless, she14 fed, she clothed. She was very active in15 the community.16 I don't have a problem with the17 rebuilding of the community because it is18 necessary, but the problem I have is that19 if you want to relocate me, the money20 that you want to use to relocate me and21 my church family, why not invest in me to22 stay there so that I can continue to be a23 positive attitude in that community.24 Also, when we received a25 307 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 letter, as you before stated,2 Mr. Chairman, yes, we was upset. And3 then we went to the first meeting at4 Councilman Jones' office. We was5 bullied. We was told that we had no6 decision by the community activist.7 Parkside Association told us that the8 meeting that we went to on the 31st at9 Councilman Jones' office in Wynnefield,10 that was the only meeting we needed to go11 to. We didn't need to come here because12 this hearing was irrelevant to us.13 We was bullied by the14 redevelopment that looked me in my face15 and told me I had no choice, but I had to16 get out of the community, that they would17 take over my mother church, my18 inheritance from me and my children.19 I felt very insulted, I felt20 bad, because when we are asked to go out21 and vote, when we are asked to pull that22 lever, we are asked to trust in our23 Congress people, our representatives who24 we vote for, that they would look out on25 308 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 our behalf.2 Now, we do see that they do3 have stuff and plans to look out for us,4 but why move me out of a community that5 you want to build up, when I was there6 from the beginning, with the drugs, with7 the break-in, and everything else.8 So now that you're saying that9 the community can become better, kick me10 out? I don't think so.11 (Applause.)12
Thank you13 for your testimony.14 Sir, could you please identify15 yourself for the record.16
Dennis Lee, Chairman17 of West Philadelphia Financial Services18 Institution.19
And I just wanted to21 talk about a little bit about process.22 Nineteen years ago, when the23 first individuals started thinking about24 building the Park West Town Center, they25 309 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 thought about building a little strip2 mall. Through the years, it involved --3 kind of mushroomed into this -- what we4 see today.5 But in that process, there's a6 lot of emotionalism, and it takes7 sometimes to -- you'll hear one person's8 opinion of what was done, and then you'll9 hear another person's opinion of what was10 done. And when you listen to both of11 them, everyone wants the same thing:12 Everyone wants that community to be13 bigger and better.14 We're not stepping into15 lightness; we're already in lightness.16 We're stepping into enlightenment. And17 that's what this process will do.18 This process right now -- and19 hearing my good friend the pastor talk20 about the wonderful things that they21 would like to see it in the community and22 what have you, but it takes looking at23 everybody's vision. And that's what it24 took nineteen years ago. That's why we25 310 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 have a Park West Town Center, because the2 people came together.3 There are meetings constantly4 in that community, there's access in that5 community. And I don't want -- I don't6 want us to be misled that there was not a7 process in this whole thing, 'cause8 there's been meetings.9 Now, everybody doesn't hear all10 the notices, everybody doesn't always get11 a opportunity to be at the meetings and12 what have you, but there is a major13 process in that community.14 The result is a $60 million15 complex, with 19 renovated homes, and 1916 of those individuals lived in that17 community and were relocated in that18 community, as well as those that are19 going to be looking at the process will20 have a opportunity to be a part of that21 process.22 So I think once calmer heads23 are set in the room and we all get a24 chance to talk about it and talk about25 311 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 this process, the emotionalism will set2 aside, and then the true process will3 happen.4 And I thank you for that5 opportunity to give that testimony.6
Thank you7 for your testimony. I appreciate it.8 Ma'am, are you testifying?9 Ma'am?10 Who else is in the room to11 testify on this bill? Please come12 forward.13 (Witnesses come forward.)14
Thank you. I17 am Minister Teresa Lockhart King, of18 Macedonia Pentecostal Church of19 Deliverance.20 I'm a member in that community,21 and after having been there and seen the22 community and having talked with the23 residents there, this project that24 they're trying to bring forth is not25 312 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 conducive for the community.2 The residents there would like3 to remain in their homes. Why take and4 rebuild homes, put these people out, or5 tell them some story that, Oh, you're6 going to be able to remain there. They7 already have homes.8 We're trying to rebuild the9 community. And through the church and10 the people in the community, we plan to11 revitalize. We want to develop a12 partnership within that area with the13 business associations, with the civic14 associations, and with the people that15 live there.16 I heard someone speak earlier17 and say that, Oh, we have given jobs, we18 have created jobs. Those jobs weren't19 for the people in the community; those20 jobs were through the labor unions and21 through people that were hand-picked by22 them, but not people that live in the23 community.24 Our church has a plan already25 313 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 in place of what we plan to do to2 partnership with the community as well as3 the businesses there.4 Our vision statement is this5 for the community -- our statement of6 purpose, I'm sorry. Our statement of7 purpose reads as such:8 Macedonia Pentecostal Church of9 Deliverance, Inc. endeavors to create:10 1. Create and develop11 relationships that will inflate our12 community resources in surrounding urban13 marketplace.14 2. To help rebuild and bring15 improvement to the community through the16 awareness and implementation of various17 programs such as: In one year, after-18 school programs; a GED literacy program,19 six months; parenting skills within six20 months; business empowerment and21 entrepreneur networking in six months;22 job-readiness training -- résumés, cover23 letters, et cetera; summer lunch programs24 within a year, and we have already25 314 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 partnered with the Archdiocese and2 received our number to start lunch3 programs around there and feeding4 programs, and we're going to be working5 with PhilAbundance; counseling task force6 for substance abuse; senior activities,7 and we're also going to partner with PCA;8 neighborhood watch programs; Philadelphia9 More Beautiful Committee; we intend to10 have health (indiscernible) to bring11 awareness to the neighborhood and to the12 community and to the residents about13 different issues concerning health care;14 and reentry programs for the prison15 ministry that it's working on; reentry16 programs so that people that are coming17 out of these correctional institutions18 will have a opportunity to have a second19 chance to come back and be a contributing20 factor within the community, to have21 jobs, to have someplace to live, to know22 that they can once again survive in the23 community that they grew up in.24 Our programs and work ethics25 315 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 are rock solid and will involve the2 community residents, businesses, and the3 members of Macedonia Pentecostal Church4 of Deliverance, Inc.5 One thing I would like to say6 is that the residents there, they don't7 want to be relocated; they want to remain8 where they are. But the same money that9 you're going to take -- I keep hearing10 about tax credits, tax credits. So you11 going to take the tax credits from the12 homeowners that already live there that13 are paying property taxes, school taxes,14 and all these other actions; now you want15 to give it to a corporation instead of16 taking that money and returning it --17 turning it around and recycling it back18 into the community for the residents that19 live there.20 (Applause.)21
The rebuilding22 of this community is vitally important to23 our church simply because we care. We24 care for the residents and we're25 316 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 concerned about their resolving issues.2 The crime, that's why we want3 to put a Town Watch in place. We want to4 involve the people that live there5 because when we involve them and they see6 that their community becomes more stable7 and they can revitalize it, take will8 take more pride in their community, not9 just where they live at, but in the10 surrounding areas.11 We plan to partnership with12 other churches in that area --13 (Applause.)14
-- to help15 rebuild, not tear down and build up16 something else but rebuild what's already17 there. Don't try to fix what's not18 broken'; just take what's there and fix19 it.20 (Applause.)21
Currently plans22 are being formulated to involve community23 residents in rebuilding and24 revitalization processing. In other25 317 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 words, use the people that live there.2 You bringing all these people in from3 everywhere; what about the people that4 live there? They have feelings, they5 have issues, they have concerns, and they6 want to be a active part of the process7 that's going on.8 We have no problem with9 rebuilding and revitalizing the area, but10 work with us; don't take from us.11 (Applause.)12
Thank you13 for your testimony.14 Please identify yourself for15 the record.16
My name is Karen17 Best.18 I am one of -- two issues. I19 am one who basically was a part of the20 relocation; and also, I am a part of you21 guys getting ready to take properties22 again at -- one of the properties that23 are getting ready to be taken again.24 My concern is two things. I25 318 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 can appreciate everything that Lucinda2 and the society has been doing because it3 was a positive thing with me moving and4 being located. But also, I am also in5 agreement with these young ladies here in6 reference to the property that I own now,7 in searching or reaching out to try to8 get it be maintained or renewed or some9 help with it. It was never done.10 Just as she's stating, instead11 of taking money into -- and putting it12 into other people's hands, why not give13 it to us so that we can rebuild and stay14 within our locations. I have children15 that have been raised up in this16 location. I don't want, every time I17 turn around, property to be taken away18 from me.19 I do understand money is20 involved and is needed. Why can't the21 money be given to us to fix and maintain22 instead of taken away from us.23 (Applause.)24
That's my only25 319 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 concern.2 They have -- I benefited have3 from the relocation process as well. I4 do want my neighborhood beautified, I do5 want things to be right. I give Lucinda6 credit for the hard work she's put in in7 trying to do that.8 But all I'm saying is that for9 those that are middle class like myself,10 who's trying to work hard to maintain and11 rebuild, why take it away.12
Sir, please15 come forward and identify yourself for16 the record.17 (Witness comes forward.)18
Is there19 anyone else left to testify on this bill?20 (No response.)21
So this22 will be the final witness for this bill.23 Please identify yourself for24 the record and proceed.25 320 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451
Good afternoon. My2 name is Jerome C. Avery, and I currently3 reside in the West Park area. I have4 been in the area for very close to 505 years. And once I became an adult I have6 been working for about the last 30, 357 years with the youth in the community,8 and I continue to do that to this day.9 I am currently and have been a10 board member of the Parkside Association11 for the past six years. My main reason12 for becoming a board member was to get13 involved in youth development and the14 future of the West Parkside community by15 improving the area schools and preserving16 the existing homes, while ensuring that17 the community's input was accepted and18 respected when it came to the many19 changes in the West Parkside community20 This proved to be an extremely21 difficult task. The difficulty lies in22 the fact that, as a board member, I was23 never informed of or invited to any of24 the strategy settings, planning, steering25 321 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 committee, or business meetings, et2 cetera. I had no input in any serious3 discussions pertaining to the future of4 West Parkside area.5 I was intentionally excluded6 because I consistently raised the issue7 of community exclusion at every community8 and Parkside Association board meeting9 that I attended. I raised other issues10 that were extremely important to the11 community. They were housing,12 specifically the rehabilitation of the13 homes in the a 5100 block of Columbia14 Avenue, youth development, and a tax15 abatement program for the homeowners that16 remain in the West Parkside area.17 We have addressed the18 tax-abatement issue at several meetings.19 Councilman Curtis Jones attended a few of20 those meetings. The issue of tax21 abatement is extremely important in that22 the existing community members, those who23 have a vested interest in the community,24 will be faced with the difficulty of25 322 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 increased property tax as the community2 continues to develop.3 And the question is: Will the4 residents who move into the newly5 renovated or newly built houses, will6 they get tax abatements?7 The main and most important8 issue that I raised at those meetings was9 the intentional exclusion of the10 community in the changes that were being11 planned and implemented in the West12 Parkside area.13 Community exclusion became the14 most important issue because if you don't15 have some control and input in the16 community issues, you won't be able to17 control the education, housing, taxes, or18 anything else in your community.19 If the investment groups or20 financial groups want to build or promote21 a project in the West Parkside area, they22 should have honestly discussed it with23 the majority of the community and not a24 select few.25 323 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 (Applause.)2
5 In many cases, our home is our6 biggest economic investment. 11 Based on my experience as a12 board member and my being intentionally13 excluded from any serious strategy or14 planning sessions, I question why others15 who are employed by the financial group16 and the public relations groups and17 represented their interests were included18 in the strategy and planning sessions19 and, in some cases, hired by the Parkside20 association. This allowed them to21 deceitfully make it appear that they were22 representing the community's best23 interests. 6 For example, a community7 meeting was held and hosted by the Urban8 Partners and Baker & Company, LLC, on May9 19, 2011. 11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 their community and the rehabilitation of2 homes in their community. Instead, they3 found that some of their homes were being4 acquired for projects that they were5 completely unaware of. 12 The community has been13 misinformed and misled on several14 occasions regarding the housing on15 Columbia Avenue. 13 I would like for someone to14 honestly address the issue of housing on15 Columbia Avenue. 6 On Thursday, June 2, 2011, a7 community meeting was held at the Penn8 Memorial Baptist Church. 14 It was my understanding that15 only three people from the community16 attended this meeting. 11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 they mention or inform the community2 members of the June 2nd community meeting3 at Penn Memorial Baptist Church that was4 directly related to the changes in the5 West Parkside area. Why didn't they6 mention this public hearing that is being7 held today regarding the proposed changes8 in the West Parkside area9 I can tell you why. 11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 specifically ShopRite, where most of the2 community shops. 6
Sir, excuse7 me, I'm sorry. I' don't mean to8 interrupt. Do you have -- is there many9 more pages? Or --10
Oh, okay.12 All right, thank you.13 (Indiscernible; parties talking14 over each other.)15
I16 appreciate it. We're just backing up17 into other hearings now --18
I attended 7523 percent or more of the Parkside24 Association Board and community meetings.25 330 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 I also attended 90 percent of the2 community meetings held by or directed by3 the various development and investment4 groups.5 Okay. Well, can I just read --6 I'll just read the last part, and can I7 leave a copy of it?8
Oh,9 absolutely. Your entire testimony will10 be printed in the record, without a11 doubt. So if you can summarize, that12 would be helpful.13
Okay. 18 After the presentation, a19 question form was issued for any20 additional questions, comments or21 concerns. The question form was to be22 handed in at the meeting, faxed, or23 e-mailed, or called in. 2 I eventually mailed my3 completed question form on 6/11/08. 8 New ideas, changes, and9 proposals are usually discussed and10 decided upon by the time they reach11 members of the community. 18 My next issue is the future of19 the 1700 block of North 51st Street. The20 1700 block of North 51st Street consists21 of six houses. 5 My current address is 17266 North 51st Street, and it is next door to7 one of the properties listed to be8 acquired. 11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 The appearance of blight always2 gives justification to redeveloping a3 specific area. 20 When the City demolished at21 1728 North 51st Street, they left my home22 and the surrounding cement structures in23 complete ruin. 11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 exposed. The lot appeared as a dumping2 ground, and many people used it for that3 exact purpose. 11 I followed the rules and12 regulations as I was required to13 pertaining to correcting the damage that14 was done to my property by the demolition15 crew. 9 These two agencies under the10 direction of the Mayor and, to some11 extent, City Council violated laws12 against the citizens. Should they be13 held accountable? )2
Thank you.3 And I would also like to say4 that I am not in support of this5 ordinance as it stands today.6
Okay, thank7 you.8 (Applause.)9 (Mr. Covington returns to10 witness table.)11
If you12 absolutely have to, if you absolutely13 have to, please go ahead. I mean, it's14 just -- go ahead, I'm sorry.15
I just want to16 confirm, particularly with the audience17 here, that there is a process under18 Councilman Jones's leadership that has19 already been underway in which owners of20 properties that are not critical to this21 development have been able to come to the22 developers and to the Councilman's office23 and discuss their situation. And we've24 already reached agreement on certain25 337 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 situations that would not proceed even2 under the passing of this ordinance.3 So I just wanted to have that4 for the record as a process that's5 underway under Councilman Jones's6 leadership, and that will continue as7 part of this process.8
Thank you9 very much for your testimony.10 We will now move to Bill No.11 110306, an ordinance amending --12 Oh, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.13 Hold it. Wait, hold it, hold it. I14 forgot Councilman Goode asked for some15 consideration.16 Mr. Redding, could you please17 come back to the table on this bill.18 (Mr. Redding returns to witness19 table.)20
Hi. I'm Richard25 338 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 Redding, Director of Community Planning2 at the Philadelphia City Planning3 Commission.4
Mr. Redding,5 I'll try to make this as painless as6 possible. We've known each other for7 several years. You know my familiarity8 with development in West Philadelphia,9 and I know yours.10 For the record, how long have11 you been doing planning in West12 Philadelphia?13
For 36 years at14 the Planning Commission and over 20 as a15 West Philadelphia community planner16 before I became Director of the Division.17
Okay. So18 you're very familiar with the planning in19 West Parkside.20
And at what22 point was there a Park West Town Center23 shopping center envisioned or planned?24
'96, '97 is when25 339 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 we started work on redevelopment area2 plans for that shopping center.3
Yes. It was very6 much -- it was an idea that grew out of7 the empowerment zone committees.8
And without9 that idea growing out of the empowerment10 zone, that area would have been slated11 just for industrial development; is that12 a fair statement?13
Yes. The land14 now occupied by the shopping center had15 been industrial land.16
And there17 was no affordable housing development18 planned in the area, which is being19 planned right now; is that correct?20
Over the years,21 there's been scattered rehabs proposed22 and different housing programs applied in23 the West Parkside community, and there's24 been different planning documents.25 340 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451
But there's2 been no major affordable housing3 development in that area; is that4 correct?5
Councilman, for6 instance, on the west side of 52nd, the7 northwest corner of Jefferson, the sides8 of -- actually, both corners at9 Jefferson, apartment buildings were10 renovated as affordable rentals during11 the '80s and '90s.12
And was that13 a result of City Planning, or was that a14 result of private development?15
Well, I -- it16 certainly would not have happened without17 a private developer, but I think of these18 things as partnerships and --19
But there is20 not an active community-development21 corporation in that area that develops22 affordable housing, is there?23
There's a very2 active community development corporation3 called the Parkside Association of4 Philadelphia.5
Approximately16 four years ago for the second phase, and17 four years prior for the first phase. I18 think probably a little bit more than 2519 total.20
And I'll21 make this as my last question and22 statement, and you can respond however23 you want and elaborate however you like.24 A lot of that grew out of the25 342 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1103451 empowerment zone as well. The plans for2 that area were actually for industrial3 development type of developments4 happening there, grew out of an5 empowerment zone process.6 I am sure that Councilman Jones7 is going to do a great job of making sure8 that there is more than industrial9 development done there, that there10 continue to be retail and housing11 development done there.12 But there are actually roots in13 how this stuff happened, and I just14 wanted to get that on the record.15 Thank you, Mr. Redding.16
Thank you18 very much.19 We'll now move to Bill No.20 110306, which is an ordinance amending21 Title 14 of the Philadelphia Code,22 entitled "Zoning and Planning," by23 amending Section 14-1604, entitled24 "Outdoor Advertising and Non-Accessory25 343 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 Advertising Controls," by permitting one2 nonaccessory outdoor advertising sign,3 with certain conditions within the area4 bounded by Moore Street, Swanson Street,5 Columbus Boulevard, Morris Street, and6 Water Street, and making certain7 technical changes, all under certain8 terms and conditions.9 (Mr. Kramer and Mr. Patterson10 return to witness table.)11
Mr. Kramer,12 please identify yourself for the record.13 Mr. Patterson, you're not14 scheduled --15
No, I21 understand that, but that's not the list22 I have.23
I gave the list24 up with my exhibits.25 344 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061
No, you're2 third on the...3 (Councilman Kenney confers off4 the record with staffperson.)5
Good afternoon,8 Chairman Kenney and members of the Rules9 Committee. I am William Kramer, Division10 Director of the Development Division of11 the Philadelphia City Planning12 Commission, and I'm here today to testify13 on Bill No. 110306, which was introduced14 into City Council on April 28, 2011.15 Bill No. 110306 proposes to16 amend Section 14-104, "Outdoor17 Advertising and Non-Accessory Advertising18 Controls," for an area bounded by Moore19 Street, Moore Street, Swanson Street,20 Columbus Boulevard, Morris Street, and21 Water Street.22 The bill would permit one23 double-face, freestanding, non-accessory24 outdoor advertising sign mounted to a25 345 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 single-support structure. The sign would2 be permitted provided each sign faces no3 more than a thousand square feet, and the4 height of the sign from grade to the top5 of the sign does not exceed 67 feet.6 The bill also permits the sign7 to be internally illuminated, and digital8 electronic changeable messages would be9 permitted.10 In 2007, an application for11 this non-accessory sign was reviewed and12 denied by the Zoning Board of Adjustment.13 The ZBA's decision was reversed on appeal14 of the Common Pleas Court but then15 reaffirmed by the Commonwealth Court on16 July 24, 2009.17 The Philadelphia City Planning18 Commission, at its meeting of May 17,19 2011, recommended that Bill No. 11030620 not be approved. The Commission believes21 the excessive number of outdoor22 non-accessory signs in the City23 contributes to visual clutter and24 detracts from the esthetic beauty of25 346 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 Philadelphia. Such signs are also a2 detriment to public safety, creating a3 hazard to both motorists and pedestrians.4 Additionally, the proliferation5 of commercial outdoor advertising signs6 contributes to the appearance and7 deterioration of commercial and8 industrial areas, negatively impacting9 the economic viability of these areas.10 The Commission had made a11 recommendation at the time of the Zoning12 Board of Adjustment hearing also13 recommending that the requested variance14 not be granted, as it is the Commission's15 opinion that non-accessory signage is16 inappropriate at this location.17 That is the conclusion of my18 testimony. I'd be happy to answer any19 questions you may have.20
And its2 conversion, or proposed conversion, to3 digital is a detriment to the safety of4 who?5
Depending on who6 you ask.7 The digital component of this8 sign was not something that was9 specifically concerning the Commission10 because they haven't specifically11 addressed that.12 The Commission looked at this.13 It started life as an accessory sign; it14 was then changed to a non-accessory sign.15
-- my22 understanding that the Risqué place has23 an office at this location. That was not24 my determination as to whether it was25 348 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 accessory or not.2
But what3 does the Commission base its public4 safety detriment on, the number of5 accidents on I-95 or --6 (Indiscernible; parties talking7 over each other.)8
I mean,9 what do you base -- in order -- whether10 you like the sign or you don't like the11 sign is not an issue.12
When you14 testify that it is a public-safety issue,15 what do you base the data on this16 public-safety position? That's all I'm17 asking, a very simple question.18 What did the Planning19 Commission do to determine that it's a20 public-safety hazard?21
The public-safety22 hazard was considered as a public traffic23 issue more than anything else. It24 distracts from the public traffic.25 349 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 It was consistent with the2 research that was done back in --3 whenever the original non-accessory4 outdoor advertising sign legislation was5 considered, which, if I remember, was6 '98, if I'm not mistaken.7
That was done by10 my predecessor, Mr. Chapman, and11 Mr. Lombardo.12
And it said17 that this particular sign caused traffic18 accidents or accidents?19
No, sir, it did20 not say any one specific sign. It was in21 general that signage of a non-accessory22 nature contributed to driver distraction23 as a general statement.24
Probably4 not as much as a cell phone, but that's5 another --6
Do you know9 if there's any effort on the part of this10 digital request to have hook-in with11 Margalo, Amber Alerts, or any other types12 of public-safety needs relative to13 disasters or accidents or any kind of14 weather issues, or any kind of alerts15 that the public may need relative to16 homeland security or any of those things?17
I have not been18 made aware that they were part of that19 consideration.20
All right.21 If in the event that something like this22 is somehow interfaced with that, would it23 make it more or less of a public safety24 issue? I mean, if we were going to snag25 351 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 a guy that just grabbed a kid because2 somebody read it on a billboard --3
I certainly4 would -- I would have to consider that as5 to making a snap decision.6
And, again,7 I don't mean to beat this horse, but when8 you come up and testify on behalf of a9 government that this is a public-safety10 issue --11
Thank you.20 Any questions for Mr. Kramer?21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,22 Mr. Chairman. I was going in the same23 direction, but I...24 As a former of the TRPA, I25 352 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 actually made a call as recent as this2 morning. In the last year, maybe3 year-and-a-half, two billboards that are4 on the Philadelphia side of the Walt5 Whitman Bridge, as you come from Jersey6 into Philadelphia, two billboard have7 been converted into digital billboards,8 and there's no evidence that there has9 any increase whatsoever in any accidents10 on the Walt Whitman Bridge as it relates11 to those digital signs.12 I just thought that would be13 important, because I know they're popping14 up in lots of places and lots of other15 states, and there is this argument that16 they are distracting. I know how I feel17 about that: I don't think they're18 distracting, but others may feel that19 way.20 And there's no empirical21 evidence, from what I can tell, that22 would support that they are contributing23 factors to additional accidents.24 Thanks.25 353 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061
Thank you.2 Any additional questions for3 Mr. Kramer?4 (No further questions.)5
Thank you.6 Mr. Kelly's not here, I understand. And7 Stephanie Kindt, please.8 (Witness comes forward.)9
Hello. My name is10 Stephanie Kindt. I'm the staff attorney11 with SCRUB, the public voice for public12 space.13 Bill No. 110306 involves spot14 zoning, and I know that every time15 someone comes up and talks about zoning,16 it's spot zoning.17 But in this particular case,18 it's not like we're taking an entire19 block; there is the parcel that's20 identified in the bill, but we're21 actually -- literally, this bill is for22 one spot; the size of the pole that the23 billboard rests upon. So it's truly just24 to create this -- the legalization of25 354 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 this currently-noncompliant billboard.2 In 2009, the Commonwealth Court3 ordered the property owner to come into4 compliance. And since that time, they've5 had six violations issued on this6 property.7 And you can see up on the8 slide, there's actually two non-accessory9 signs on the property right now; one for10 Risqué and one for David's Auto Dealer.11 There is a trailer located on12 the property. The permit for that13 trailer wasn't made until this past14 summer, in July. There was a 3-1-1 call.15 An investigator had gone out in May.16 So the trailer that's now17 located on the property, I think, is half18 split between a Risqué office and a19 David's Auto dealer. So there is no auto20 dealer on the property; it's a trailer21 that has, I guess, a desk.22 It originally was an accessory23 sign in the size of the billboard. And24 this was taken probably in 2005, prior to25 355 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 it converting to non-accessory. So2 there's a whole history of litigation,3 there's a whole history of violations.4 Clearly, the property owner has5 wanted this to be non-accessory. You can6 get a place for where it's at right now;7 it's just north of the Target.8 There is absolutely no benefit9 except to this property owner. The10 Commonwealth Court was crystal-clear in11 its upholding of the Zoning Board of12 Adjustment's decision.13
I'm sorry.14 Could I ask you a question about the size15 of the --16
How does18 that sign -- it's spatially difficult to19 determine --20
Well, let23 me finish.24 (Indiscernible; parties talking25 356 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 over each other.)2
It's6 spatially difficult to determine the size7 of the sign based on its position to8 Target.9 So how big is the Target sign10 and how big is the Risqué sign?11
The Risqué sign is12 actually bigger than what's allowed.13 It's --14
I'm actually not17 sure of the size of the Target sign. I18 know it's actually -- because of the19 distancing there --20
Yeah, it looks like23 it's smaller, but it's not, because it's24 so far away. It's 2400.25 357 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061
Whereas the legal3 is 1200. It's actually also too tall.4 It's 67 and 25.5
So does the6 Target sign -- is that -- who does the7 Target benefit other than --8
No, I'm11 saying, other than Target, who does the12 Target sign benefit? You said there's no13 public benefit to it. Who does the14 Target sign benefit?15
The Target is an16 accessory sign telling people where the17 Target is.18
I'm just24 looking --25 358 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 (Indiscernible; parties talking2 over each other.)3
Right. Well, an20 accessory sign tells people what's on the21 property. So if you want to go to22 Target, you would see the sign and go to23 Target.24
But25 359 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 that's -- so you don't view that as2 blight?3
You don't5 view that as blight, the size of the6 sign --7
But it's13 still large and imposing, and it's in the14 landscape.15
So the residents of22 Pennsport have been arguing for over a23 decade.24 And I think at one point, even25 360 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 Councilman DiCicco, you were against this2 sign becoming non-accessory, along with3 John Dougherty.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That I5 doubt.6
Okay.7 (Laughter.)8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I doubt9 there was an agreement there.10
Well, we do --11 there is a letter from Pennsport as well12 as from some of the riverfront, CDAG,13 that -- they feel very strongly about14 this. And these folks can see the sign15 from their front windows. So -- and a16 lot has been invested in this area to17 really beautify underneath 95.18 And to allow this to be19 legalized by an ordinance in this fashion20 would really reward this property owner21 for years of noncompliance and for years22 of being in violation. It would just23 really go against everything that this24 neighborhood is really working towards25 361 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 and striving towards.2 So I would ask the Council to3 absolutely not support this ordinance.4 And also included is just a5 timeline of all of the different6 litigation that's occurred with this7 billboard in the back of your packet.8 Thanks so much.9
Any10 questions for this witness?11 Councilman.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,13 Mr. Chairman.14 Just for the record, I'm not15 certain if that sign is visible to the16 residents on Front Street from their17 bedroom windows any longer because18 since -- and I don't know if that shows19 it or not, but there is now a sound20 barrier that has been placed all along21 95. And I think -- I could be wrong, but22 I believe it also acts as a visual in23 addition to a sound barrier to the folks24 who live on Front Street.25 362 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 Reference was made about2 Pennsport. I did get an e-mail -- I'm3 not certain if my colleagues got one --4 yesterday from Tom Otto representing the5 Pennsport Civic Association being in6 opposition.7 Mr. Otto is no longer the8 President of Pennsport. I received a9 phone call from the new president of10 Pennsport, Dr. James Moylan, who11 indicated to me that Pennsport was not in12 opposition to the sign, and they will13 work with the owner of the sign, as a14 result of the some of my conversations,15 to create a community benefits agreement16 for some investment back into that17 community.18 And I believe Mr. Patterson,19 who's representing the applicant, will20 speak to that as well.21
Any other22 questions for this witness?23 (No questions.)24
Seeing25 363 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 none, Mr. Patterson, please identify2 yourself for the record.3
Thank you.4 Good afternoon. Ronald Patterson,5 attorney with the Klehr Harrison law6 firm. I do represent the owner of this7 property, which is 1700 Columbus8 Associates, which also owns the property9 on which the gentlemen's club is located,10 but that entity does not operate the11 club.12 The property is located west of13 I-95, on Water Street, and it is right14 behind Target.15 My version of the story16 naturally is different. We're basically17 here to correct what I see as --18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Excuse me,19 Mr. Patterson. That's east of 95.20
95 is west of24 that.25 364 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's2 right.3
I see this as a4 way to correct a wrong. 6 It was originally approved as7 an accessory sign at 20-feet-by-50-feet,8 2,000 square feet, an area of 1,0009 square feet each side. 14 This property fronts on three15 streets: Water Street, Moore Street, and16 Swanson Street. 20 So the sign is there, it's not21 moving. 23 It all comes down, frankly, to24 what the copy is today. 11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 an exhibit package. 7 In 2005, I obtained a zoning8 permit for this sign, for an accessory9 sign. At the time, there was a retail10 mattress store onsite and a private11 parking lot. 11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 Zoning Board to convert that to a2 non-accessory sign, to be able to3 advertise uses that are not on that4 property. Mainly, one of the uses was to5 advertise and to locate the nightclub6 across the street. 9 So we applied in 2008 to10 convert the sign to non-accessory. We11 had a hearing before the Zoning Board of12 Adjustment. 14 SCRUB appealed the variance to15 the Court of Common Pleas. Common Pleas16 agreed with us again. 19 So, in 2010, which is my20 Exhibit 6, L&I issued a letter revoking21 the zoning permit. 14 So you would think following15 the rules that L&I said, Okay, if you --16 you will get an accessory sign for17 whatever uses are on that site. So my18 Exhibit is my application to L&I, which19 I was told bluntly, Well, we're not going20 to approve that because we don't believe21 that they're legitimate offices. You can22 go there and check. "2 Go back to the Zoning Board. 4 So the bottom line is, I'm5 entitled to a sign there. I tried it for6 non-accessory, to comply with what we7 were told to do in order to advertise8 certain uses. It was overturned. I was9 told I could have accessory. 14 So we tried to follow the15 rules, the rules kept changing. 5 The bottom line is, the sign6 exists, there's no added blight. 10 So you may hear that the11 sign -- you did hear that it is12 noncompliant. 15 Approving this bill will allow16 a copy change on an existing structure17 that will have no adverse impact on18 anything or anybody. 21 I've also heard mentioned that22 it's spot zoning, and I heard23 Mr. McElhatton mention spot zoning24 earlier. 11 This ordinance would allow a12 relaxation of the code to allow an13 adaptive or a reuse or a better use or an14 additional use of the existing structure15 that is there. 17
Thank you,20 Mr. Chairman.21 Good afternoon, Mr. Patterson.22
How long24 have you been dealing with this issue?25 371 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061
We were trying9 to accomplish that we could have a sign10 on the property, that we could identify11 the uses that were on the property?12
We were -- we15 wanted to put up whatever was on the16 property, which was parking. That was17 all that was there, parking.18
We were hoping20 we could say parking for the club across21 the street, but we were told because it22 was across the street, we could not add23 that --24
So the sign25 372 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 that you actually wanted to put up was a2 parking sign.3
Then we applied11 for a variance to allow for copy on the12 sign that was not located on the13 property.14
But we received17 a variance. And, as I mentioned, it was18 revoked in 2010.19 And you're -- now, you may say20 it's illegal.21
I simply25 373 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 asked a question.2
I said: So5 it wasn't legal for you to put that sign6 up?7
No, it was10 legal for you to put the parking sign up11 --12
Right, after we25 374 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 received the variance.2
You were10 told it was illegal, so is it illegal11 now?12
Well, that's13 the question. L&I claims it's illegal,14 but they say, Follow this procedure.15 You're allowed an accessory sign.16 So I have a zoning permit for17 an office use that has those uses18 there -- the Club Risqué office and the19 David's Auto office.20
And when I22 planned for the accessory sign, I was23 told they're not going to give it to me.24
So do you25 375 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 still have parking there?2
All right.8 Well, why did you need to advertise9 parking in 2005?10
So people could23 park and -- and attend the businesses in24 the area.25 376 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061
I don't know.6 I think it's well known that there's7 parking there.8 (Indiscernible; parties talking9 over each other.)10
So you don't11 advertise parking for the businesses in12 the area anymore?13
Not at this14 point, no. I advertise -- what's on15 there is a sign identifying what uses are16 on the property right now.17
Well, there's a20 daycare, which is not on the sign.21 There's a corporate office for Club22 Risqué and a corporate office for David23 Auto.24
And that's the2 copy that's on -- that's what's on the3 signs right now.4
So the sign5 says what? Does it list the corporate6 offices on the sign?7
Okay. So17 the sign is noncompliant in terms of18 being an accessory sign.19
You don't22 have to agree; I'm just asking what the23 law is.24
Yeah. I mean,25 378 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 technically, we don't have a permit for2 it, correct. I've applied for it and I3 do not have a permit.4
So if you do5 not have a permit for it, it's illegal6 for you to have that sign there?7
If you don't9 have a permit for it, it's illegal for10 you to have that sign there.11
Any other15 questions for Mr. Patterson?16 (No further questions.)17
My name is Mary24 Tracy. I'm the Executive Director of25 379 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 SCRUB, and I actually go back to the very2 early history, and I wanted to make a few3 clarifications.4 Prior to 2005, Mr. Begano, the5 owner of Risqué Video had applied --6
First of12 all, first of all, first of all, first of13 all, this is not going to be a debate;14 it's a hearing with testimony. There's15 no debate.16
So whatever18 you have to say, please say. Whatever19 you have to respond to, please respond20 to. And then we'll go on our merry way.21
So, as I was23 saying, Mr. Begano, who, the neighbors24 all told me, had owned Risqué, applied25 380 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 for a variance with Mr. Schwartz, which2 was the attorney at that time.3 (Addressing Mr. Patterson.) So4 you may not know, you know, what that5 part of the history was.6
Okay. There was an20 application for a variance on that21 property. The neighborhoods were22 strongly opposed. They came to us and23 ask asked for help.24
I think in --4 (Indiscernible; parties talking5 over each other.)6
I mean,7 we're adults here. How many times do I8 have to ask people not to speak out.9 Just give us your testimony, she'll take10 it down --11
But at the end of19 the day, they withdrew that application20 for a variance because of the21 neighborhood opposition.22 About a year later, they went23 and got an over-the-counter permit for an24 accessory sign. And we've learned why25 382 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 get an over-the-counter: Because they2 faced -- and how much excessive square3 footage that they were allowed.4 And their whole intention of5 putting up that accessory sign was to6 really turn it into a non-accessory sign.7 They were cited by L&I, and L&I watched8 them very carefully, because they said9 all you can do is put parking on there.10 About a year later -- I guess11 that would have been in 2008 -- they12 applied for a variance to turn that13 accessory sign to a non-accessory sign.14 And the Zoning Board denied it. The15 Zoning Board denied it.16 And when they said, Well, it's17 an accessory sign, the sign's already18 there, why don't we just put the message19 on that if we want, the Zoning Board20 warned that this was really a backdoor21 way to get a non-accessory sign.22 They had -- they knew the23 community didn't want it, they knew they24 were in opposition. It was across from a25 383 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 playground, it was across from people's2 homes, it was too close to other existing3 billboards, it was higher than was4 allowed. All these reasons means they5 needed a variance, and they were denied6 it.7 And then they went to the8 Common Pleas Court, and the Common Pleas9 Court, since no one from the Law10 Department showed up to defend the11 decision, which happens not irregularly12 these days, then the Common Pleas Court13 gave it to them.14 Then the City realized, because15 the neighborhood groups were in an16 uproar -- they said, What are you running17 here? We don't want this sign. It's18 across from our homes, our playgrounds,19 our community.20 This guy has been trying every21 which way to get this sign up here, and22 it's unfair, it's unjust, and we'd like23 to see the law defended. And so, the Law24 Department defended that law, and they25 384 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 won at the Commonwealth Court.2 Since that winning, the -- L&I3 has been citing them for the illegal use4 of this sign and their continuing5 disregard.6 When they get the citations7 now, they scratch their head. What can8 we do now? Okay, I know. Let's put a9 trailer up there, and we'll put a little10 sign on there and say "Risqué Video11 Office" and whatever the car company12 office is.13 Well, I'm telling you, if this14 City Council Rules Committee passes this15 particular ordinance, I have some16 swampland to sell you, because you are17 turning your face on the law of the land.18 The law of the land of the City19 of Philadelphia, they did not pass the20 test, and now we have as spotty a zoning21 as you possibly can --22
The Zoning Board25 385 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 did not grant you a variance.2 (Indiscernible; parties talking3 over each other.)4
All right,5 all right. Folks, folks, I'm giving you6 a lot of leeway with your assertions7 allegations, and I'm not stopping you. I8 mean, I'm not doing any of this stuff9 because you're getting there.10 I'm just curious as to how --11 you said L&I watched them very carefully?12
Now, answer14 my question: How do I get L&I to watch15 everything else?16 (Laughter.)17
I know. Well --18 (Indiscernible; parties talking19 over each other.)20
I've got a21 whole bunch of stuff they should watch22 really carefully, and why they're23 watching billboards --24
Because the25 386 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 community --2
Because the5 community reports it, and they go in and6 they see.7
When I8 can't get them to pay attention to a9 nuisance business and do something about10 that, but they're out there in what,11 undercover, looking at billboards?12
I don't think13 undercover. I mean, these things are14 very --15
I mean, I16 understand. I'm just curious as to how17 L&I became so intense on billboards.18
They're21 also outraged about a bunch of nuisances,22 and I should be asking the Commissioner23 --24
Well, then I should25 387 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 think you should be able to do a better2 job of --3
I should be4 asking the Commissioner this. I try all5 the time. I bang my head against that6 wall, but it doesn't seem to work. But I7 would -- if you can give me some insight8 as to how I can get them to pay attention9 to --10
-- some13 really serious stuff, I'll be happy to14 take your testimony.15
I'd be glad to work16 with you on that issue because I think17 it's one across the City that we all18 share.19
We may not share21 our view of billboards, but I think we22 share our frustration with the lack of23 enforcement in the City.24
Councilman9 DiCicco.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: People11 were talking over each other, and you12 were making reference to if this City13 Council were to approve this, this Rules14 Committee, and then you -- this was15 something against -- could you --16
Oh, you know, did17 anybody get the tape on that? I forget18 what I said --19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Spot20 zoning or --21
-- because it comes22 out from the heart. But I think I said,23 you know, for City Council to approve24 this spot zoning legislation, which25 389 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 basically singles out one property owner2 who has skirted the law, has gone around3 and around to try to get a billboard and4 now wants to make it digital, when it's5 right across the street, and our laws say6 you can't have digital signs within, I7 don't know, 400 feet of residential8 property, not to mention that you can't9 have outdoor advertising within 660 feet10 of a school or a daycare center, and this11 is basically, you know, out the back door12 of one.13 I mean, there are so many14 instances that this totally flies in the15 face of the laws that we have on outdoor16 advertising. And so to come in here with17 an ordinance that lets Mr. Begano not18 have to comply with the laws that19 everybody else has to comply with is an20 outrage. To pass that bill is an21 outrage.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You know,23 I was really hesitating on getting back24 into history. Do you not think it was an25 390 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 outrage when your organization accepted a2 half a million dollars from a sign3 company, with the understanding that you4 would withdraw your appeals at the5 Commonwealth Court level? Do you not6 think that that was inappropriate?7
Well, I think, you8 know, in retrospect, maybe it was --9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But a half10 a million dollars --11
-- maybe it wasn't.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- to your13 office and your --14
You know, I would15 say, Mr. DiCicco, that at that moment,16 there were about ten cases, and we17 weren't sure if we were going to win or18 not.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Oh,20 really?21
We litigated many22 more of that same company's, and we won.23 And we -- actually, it was at the Common24 Pleas Court and it hadn't gone to the25 391 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 next level --2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The3 Supreme Court.4
-- and so, the5 Common Pleas Court --6 (Indiscernible; parties talking7 over each other.)8
-- they withdrew.9 So, I mean, I think if you want to go10 back twelve years, you can go.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I --12
We all make13 mistakes, including you.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I never15 said I didn't.16
So I think,17 though -- I am not a public official; you18 are.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I am.20
I'm not an elected21 official; you are.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And I get23 to make decisions --24
And we expect25 392 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 you -- to comply with the same rules that2 you put down on the --3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: If I took4 a half a million dollars from a company5 or an individual --6
I didn't take any7 money.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Your9 organization did, with the understanding10 that you would not appeal those cases11 that involved the billboards in the12 Stadium District.13 If I would have done that --14 and I'll repeat what I said then because15 it was probably a couple weeks after Joey16 Merlino was sent to prison -- you would17 have been sending me cookies in prison.18 And I would have been in jail because I19 am a public official and I'm held to a20 different standard.21
And you should be.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, I23 didn't take a bribe; you did.24
And wait a minute.25 393 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061 Didn't I just hear that there's going to2 be a special agreement between Pennsport3 now? If they don't fight this --4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No.5
They're going to6 sign some agreement, whether they're7 going to get T-shirts or trees. What are8 they going to get?9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Trees10 would be good, T-shirts would be good,11 money for the little leagues; that would12 be a great thing.13
So --14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It doesn't15 go to an individual.16
It didn't go to an17 individual.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No, it19 went to your organization.20
Could we24 wrap up?25 394 6.07.11 - RULES - BILL 1103061
Yeah. I just2 want to include that it's not been my3 intention to skirt the law. I've been4 trying to play within the rules, and5 every time I get to the next step, the6 rules change.7 So I don't know what to do at8 this point.9
Anyone else13 to testify on this bill? Hope not.14 (No response.)15
We're on16 billboards now.17 The next bill is Bill No.18 100678, which is an ordinance amending19 Title of the Philadelphia Code,20 entitled "Zoning and Planning," by adding21 a new Section 14-1642, entitled "I-9522 Condemnation Corridor," to permit the23 relocation of certain structures and24 devices in connection with the PennDOT25 395 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 Project to widen portions of I-95 that2 pass through the City, under certain3 terms and conditions.4 Mr. Jastrzab.5 (Witness comes forward.)6
We'll let7 the Administration testify first, please.8 Gary, please identify yourself9 for the record and plead.10
Hold on.13 Could we limit the amount of extraneous14 conversation, please.15
I'm Gary19 Jastrzab. I am the Executive Director of20 the City Planning Commission.21
Thanks for the24 opportunity to testify on Bill No.25 396 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 100678. The bill was introduced by2 Councilman DiCicco with regard to the3 Pennsylvania Department of4 Transportation's current improvement5 project on Interstate 95 in the City,6 which will result in PennDOT acquiring7 property on either side of the highway by8 eminent domain in order to widen the9 roadway.10 The bill addresses the11 relocation of certain billboards and12 other businesses in the area of13 condemnation along the highway.14 Billboards located along the right-of-way15 of federal highways such as I-95 are16 subject to the federal Highway17 Beautification Act, which is implemented18 in Pennsylvania by PennDOT through the19 Pennsylvania Outdoor Advertising Control20 Act of 1971.21 Under this statute, PennDOT22 regulates billboards along these highways23 in residential zones, although it has24 conferred regulatory jurisdiction to the25 397 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 City for commercial and industrial zones2 along these federal highways.3 Both the City Planning4 Commission staff and PennDOT raised5 concerns about the bill in its original6 form with regard to some of the project7 sites where the relocation of billboards8 would be allowed, spacing requirements,9 and whether this could jeopardize10 compliance with State law.11 As a result, we understand that12 an amendment to this bill has been13 drafted that addresses many of these14 concerns, and I have a copy of those15 amendments.16 The purpose of the amendment is17 to limit the areas available for the18 relocation of signs, require that they19 relocate to parcels that are zoned20 commercial or industrial only, and to21 further require that they meet other22 restrictions in the City's Zoning Code.23 It's important to note that24 this bill, with its proposed amendment,25 398 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 does not permit any additional billboards2 in Philadelphia. In fact, there will be3 a reduction, as several signs that will4 be lost to this project -- expansion5 project will not be replaced.6 Under the bill in its proposed7 amendment, only currently lawful8 billboards may be relocated, and they may9 only be relocated to properties zoned10 commercial or industrial and within the11 corridor designated by the bill.12 In addition, they must remain13 spaced at 500 feet apart and may not be14 closer to any residential property than15 they are at present.16 Relocated billboards are also17 not allowed to become electronic18 variable-message signs, commonly known as19 digital signs.20 We understand that if this21 amendment is adopted, PennDOT will not22 oppose the bill. And, likewise, the23 staff recommendation to the City Planning24 Commission, at its June 14th meeting,25 399 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 would be not to oppose the bill.2 Finally, there is one other3 amendment before the committee today4 which would revise the area of the5 corridor to remove a portion of it from6 Councilwoman Krajewski's district. This7 has been proposed at her request, and we8 support that amendment. And I have a9 copy of that amendment as well.10 That concludes my testimony.11 I'd be happy to answer any questions that12 you may have.13
Seeing17 none, please identify yourself for the18 record.19
My name is Alan24 Kessler, and I am here with George25 400 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 Kroculick from my office and Deputy2 Costa.3 And we know it's late, and4 you've heard a lot. In fact, after5 sitting through the last hearing, which6 dealt with a single sign, I can't wait to7 hear what we're going to hear with this8 hearing, where we have 60-some signs, but9 I'm sure it's ready to come.10 Typically, I've come to this11 Council in the past to address things12 that were initiated by a client. Today,13 we wouldn't be here but for a new14 initiative, which we had nothing to do15 with. It is literally the case of16 sitting there, doing your business,17 minding your own business, and finding18 out that things have changed a bit.19 In this instance, it's a great20 thing, and it's the widening of I-95.21 Unfortunately, to do that work, it is22 going to require that properties23 contiguous to 95 be acquired, and those24 are properties that currently contain25 401 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 businesses and structures, including our2 billboards.3 And, by the way, when I say4 "our billboards," there are a number of5 companies here today. Mr. Chairman, if I6 can just ask them to please rise.7 We're here on behalf of CBS,8 but we have been working for CBS Outdoor9 Clear Channel, Steam, Keystone.10 Could you all rise.11 (Billboard reps stand up.)12
So the issue that16 we're dealing with is not one that we17 would have come here for, but for the18 fact that the road work is being done.19 If we are not permitted to move20 back -- and I stress move back when we21 first discussed this with Councilman22 DiCicco, who was good enough to introduce23 the bill. One of the things that he24 asked us to make sure was that these25 402 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 structures would all actually be at the2 same distance or further back from3 residential properties than would4 currently exist. And we're doing that.5 And, I think, in almost ever instance --6 in fact, they will be further back from7 residences than would currently exist.8 These are signs that generate9 significant income and revenue through10 taxes and through other civic11 contributions to the City: Approximately12 a million dollars in taxes and13 approximately -- or close to $2 million14 in civic contributions.15 This proposal, as I think the16 Planning Commission mentioned, will not17 result in a single additional billboard18 beyond what exists now. And, in fact,19 because of -- there will be a reduction20 of at least 10 percent of the boards.21 And with the latest amendment offered in22 Councilwoman Krajewski's office, that23 will add another additional board.24 So, not more; less. And,25 403 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 again, the theme here is, we didn't ask2 for this, we wouldn't be here. It's the3 widening of the road.4 And we very much appreciate5 your consideration on this request.6 I'm going to ask Mr. Kroculick7 to address some of more specifics of the8 proposed ordinance, but I would9 respectfully request at this time a10 suspension of the rules.11
I have to12 make an announcement before that13 testimony.14 At the request of the Chair of15 the Public Health and Human Services16 Committee, Bills No. 100011 and 11034617 will be recessed until Monday, June 13th,18 at 10 a.m.19 So anyone who is here to20 testify regarding those two bills -- I21 think they're dealing with lead paint and22 wild raccoons -- will come back Monday,23 June 13th, at 10 a.m.24 Please proceed.25 404 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781
Mr. Chairman.2 My name is George J. Kroculick. I'm Alan3 Kessler's partner, at Duane Morris.4 And I just wanted to emphasize5 that something that -- and Gary's last6 name might be more difficult to pronounce7 even than mine and so, I'll just call him8 "Gary."9 One of the things that Gary10 pointed out and I'd like to highlight was11 that this was a collaborative effort12 between the City and PennDOT and the13 outdoor advertisers affected in this14 corridor.15 As Gary indicated, back in16 October, certain concerns were raised at.17 That point, we had already been working18 with PennDOT about our relocated --19
I'm sorry.20 Excuse me, excuse me. I'm sorry.21 I'm going to ask, please, for22 everyone to take whatever private23 conversation -- hello, hello. Private24 conversators, can we go outside.25 405 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 Thank you.2 Please continue with your3 testimony.4
Thank you,5 Mr. Chairman.6 We had already been working7 with PennDOT, Local District 6 about new8 locations, and I have two different sets9 of plans that I can provide to you that10 will show you that in all cases, we are11 moving back away from the highway; and,12 therefore, further away from residential,13 as Alan had indicated.14 And in almost all instances, we15 are moving onto the same piece of16 property. A large part of this is17 Conrail property. So we're moving back18 onto the same piece of property in almost19 all of the cases.20 And just to highlight one of21 the things Alan had indicated also, we22 are, in fact, losing about 20 percent of23 the total boards in this little corridor24 as a result of complying -- being in25 406 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 compliance with the revised edition of2 the ordinance.3 And I think that's all I have4 to say.5
Just real8 quickly, just to get it on the record,9 and I think this might have been said10 'cause there's a lot of things going on11 here right.12 Right now, all these are legal13 signs, correct? They're all legal signs,14 right?15
All of these16 are -- pursuant to the consent agreement17 between the City and the outdoor18 advertisers, they are legal structures,19 correct.20
Okay. I21 just wanted to make sure that was on --22 'cause that -- there's been some23 information going around differently. So24 I just wanted to make sure.25 407 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 Okay, thank you.2
The 203 percent of the boards represent how many4 numerically?5
Well, we're not6 a hundred percent sure because we don't7 have all of the plans, all of the8 construction plans, from PennDOT yet, but9 we think we have somewhere in the range10 of the low 60s in terms of the number of11 faces.12 And we know we'll lose, we13 believe, at least 17 faces.14
Okay.15 Thank you.16 Anyone else have any questions?17 (No response.)18
Seeing19 none...20 Stephanie Kindt. Tom Potts, if21 he's here. Tony Knaccarato, if he's22 here.23 (Witnesses come forward.)24
Hello. My name is25 408 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 Stephanie Kindt. I'm here on behalf of2 SCRUB, the public voice for public space.3 The primary issue is the4 proximity to residences and the5 compliance with our own Philadelphia6 Zoning Code. So the billboards that are7 located along 95, many of them are not8 within our current zoning. They're on9 top of houses, next to houses.10 So there's an incredible11 opportunity right now, as I-95 is12 expanding, to come into compliance with13 our current laws.14 The consent agreement is15 actually being disputed right now in the16 court system, whether or not a government17 can contract away its own zoning laws.18 So in Los Angeles and in19 several other cities, where similar20 agreements were formed with the outdoor21 industry, those agreements have been22 thrown out.23 So when you have a billboard24 that's too close to an exit or an25 409 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 entrance, when it's too close to a park2 or church, you can't contract away the3 City's laws.4 So right now, the nonconforming5 billboard along I-95, there's an6 opportunity, when they come down, to put7 them back in compliance, or not put them8 back up at all.9 So you can see examples of10 billboards, and some of them are way too11 tall, the size is not in compliance.12 Some of them literally hang over homes.13
There were three21 parties initially, and then more22 billboard employees were added later. I23 think the three initial was CBS, Steam,24 and Clear Channel.25 410 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781
And of the2 non-billboard companies, who were parties3 to the consent agreement?4
So here are some22 examples of, you know, the encroachment23 on our public space.24
I'm just25 411 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 laughing 'cause of the audience there.2 I'm sure they're not that upset.3
And sign owners7 have been compensated. They've already8 been paid for their signs, they've9 already been paid for the structures.10 Just like if you had a house there, you11 were paid for your structure.12 So this would be like someone13 being allowed to rebuild their home in14 your backyard just because they were15 forced to move.16 So if it's non-compliant now,17 it shouldn't be allowed to continue with18 a non-compliant use.19 So we would ask that you not20 support this and support all of the21 neighborhood revitalization and22 redevelopment that's happening along 9523 right now. There are so many efforts24 with vacant land, taking back that land25 412 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 underneath 95, all kinds of creative2 solutions. Billboard is not the highest3 and best use.4 And thank you so much.5
Okay. Any6 questions anything else for this witness?7 (No questions.)8
Hi. Tom Potts, New15 Kensington Community Development16 Corporation, (indiscernible) Director.17 I just want to reiterate what18 Stephanie had said. I don't want to take19 up much time. Just as all of the20 development on 95 is occurring in the21 Fishtown, Port Richmond section, I would22 like to see them all fall under23 compliance.24
Mr. Chairman,5 if I could just add, I'm told by my6 client that picture up there is not even7 one of the billboards within the I-958 corridor. So it's slightly misleading.9
We don't think12 that's one of the boards impacted by13 PennDOT's --14
I have one more20 witness with your permission,21 Mr. Chairman.22
This is Terry24 Steen, the owner of Steen Outdoor.25 414 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781
My name is Terry4 Steen, the President of Steen Outdoor5 Advertising, in Philadelphia.6 I usually like to sit these7 things out and not to get too hot under8 the collar. However, I'm upset. And I'm9 upset because several photographs were10 shown showing my billboards in the11 vicinity of houses.12 When these billboards were13 built, the land was industrial zoning.14 When these billboards -- the pictures15 were taken, the land is still industrial16 zoning.17 By inference, it is suggested18 that if somebody has an industrial use19 and they happen to build a house near20 that industrial use, that industrial use21 should be eliminated.22 I question the legality of23 that. I question the realty of a taking24 block compensation.25 415 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 These properties all over2 Philadelphia had all kinds of goofy3 zoning through the years, which I know4 there's a committee trying to change it5 around.6
There was mixed9 zoning. 13 Now, just let me -- bear with14 me a few minutes because I have not15 testified ever in the years we've been in16 business. We started in business in17 1930. 19 I'm a resident of Philadelphia. I have20 our national headquarters in21 Philadelphia. 23 I don't have to be in24 Philadelphia, but I'm here. 2 We have several hundred3 employees. 8 But Steen Outdoor Advertising9 is what I'm known for in Philadelphia,10 and I'm here. I pay my taxes, I'm in11 Councilman DiCicco's. 13 Just a couple points. 19 Outdoor advertising is usually20 an advertisement, a message, or21 information that is placed on property22 which is not connected with that physical23 location of that ad, of that sign. 11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 messages. million9 in free advertising for charities and10 public service. million. 4 million that we gave free16 advertising to local businesses,17 businesses that couldn't afford18 advertising. 20 And historically, from my21 experience, your most vibrant cities and22 areas are those that have vibrant outdoor23 advertising. 11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 die. This is proven. 8 The golden years of9 Philadelphia, the golden years when10 Philadelphia had its greatest growth, you11 had a lot more outdoor advertising than12 you have today. In the last 25 years, my13 company has had -- we had about 800 signs14 in Philadelphia twenty-some years ago;15 now we have about 150. 18 Who is outdoor advertising? 22 Not only are we national companies but23 we're also local companies. I'm a local24 company. 11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 I pay taxes, I hire at good wages, and we2 don't lay people off. And I'm shaking a3 little bit because I didn't take my4 medication. 6 In 2010, when I did my analysis7 my numbers for my company -- and I'm sure8 it mirrors the other companies -- travel9 and tourism, travel and tourism, which is10 movie theaters, travel, shopping,11 sightseeing, 31 percent of my business12 was on travel and tourism in Philadelphia13 signs. Signs physically located in14 Philadelphia, 31 percent was travel and15 tourism. Consumer goods, clothing16 retail, 18 percent. Media, you know, TV17 stations and radio, 8 percent. Food, 418 percent. Restaurants, fast food, 1219 percent. Education, 11 percent. Medical20 12 percent. 24 Another thing. 11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 company, as well as the other companies,2 are losing many locations. We're not3 being compensated. 7 How would you like it if you8 have a shoe store, a shopping center, and9 somebody comes along and wants to put up10 a highway by your -- take your property11 away and only pay you for the mortar, the12 bricks and mortar of the property, but13 that's the real estate value. 11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 down. Thank you for your --2
Thank you3 very much for your testimony.4 Anyone else to testify on this5 bill?6
Mary, we10 just heard from SCRUB. I'm not going11 to -- we're not going to have a debate on12 this. We have another hearing that's13 going to be about three hours long, and I14 have another bill yet that's going to be15 about another 45 minutes to another hour.16
Well, I'm -- I'll17 be very brief, and I think I do have a18 right as a taxpayer and a citizen to --19
Yeah, you20 do --21 (Indiscernible; parties talking22 over each other.)23
And I do want to24 clarify --25 422 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781
Your2 organization's already been represented.3 What --4
And she's10 actually helping more than you are right11 now.12
She is, but one13 thing she -- one point -- and I'd just14 like the Councilmembers to think about15 this, and that is, the neighborhoods, the16 people who live in these places whose17 homes and neighborhoods have been divided18 by I-95. And after that, the billboards19 came. They have an opportunity to clear20 that.21 And I would say this bill, you22 know, if they want to rebuild their23 billboards, but they shouldn't be able --24 there is a stipulation in there that if25 423 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1006781 they can't find a spot that's 500 feet2 from a residential property, then they3 can put it the same distance that it is4 now. And I think the same height, I5 think it should come into compliance with6 height and with size.7 I think those amendments would8 be fair to the neighborhoods and would be9 fair to the owners.10
Thank you.11 Anyone else to testify on this12 bill?13 (No response.)14
Seeing15 none, we will now to Bill No. 100720,16 which is an ordinance amending Title 9 of17 the Philadelphia Code, entitled18 "Regulation of Businesses, Trades and19 Professions," and Title 14 of the20 Philadelphia Code, entitled "Zoning and21 Planning," by adding special provisions22 regulating advertising signs in23 Designated Commercial Advertising24 Districts; designating Market Street25 424 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 between Seventh Street and 13th Street as2 a Commercial Advertising District; and3 making conforming amendments to other4 provisions of the Philadelphia Code5 regulating advertising signs; and6 amending Chapter 19-3400, entitled7 "Excise Tax on Outdoor Advertising8 Transaction," by imposing a tax on these9 signs, all under certain terms and10 conditions.11 Please identify yourself for12 the record and proceed with your13 testimony.14
Good15 afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of16 the Committee on Rules. 16 Market Street is arguably one17 of the most significant corridors in the18 City. 11 In the last few decades, Market12 East has experienced a decline in13 commercial activity, and the creation of14 the Gallery was an early effort to boost15 the economy along Market East. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 Despite the corridor's inherent2 strengths and renewed interest in3 investment, many of the properties in4 this area, both built upon and vacant,5 continue to underperform. 9 To help address this10 disconnect, the Philadelphia City11 Planning Commission established the12 Market East Plan in 2009. 17 One of the many issues18 addressed in the Market East Plan is the19 overall quality of the properties in the20 area. Many of the buildings in the21 corridor are poorly maintained and in22 need of significant renovations and23 repairs. 2 The conditions of these3 properties are limiting the full4 commercial potential of the corridor and5 detracting from the experience of area6 patrons. 11 In the past, that funding would12 have been the federal or state13 government. 15 Bill 100720 is one such16 creative solution to this issue. If the17 proposed amendments are adopted, the bill18 would allow for the creation of a Market19 East Advertising District between Seventh20 Street and 13th Street. 2
Thank you3 very much.4 Could you give me an example of5 what one of these signs would be? Is6 there anything that's in your --7
I can think8 of a couple. They're not obviously in9 Philadelphia.10 But for example, if you go to11 the Penn Station area of New York, 34th12 and Seventh Avenue, there's a series of13 pavilions that are located at corners --14 in this case, with vertical signage above15 them on a structure. We've seen -- the16 signs are probably 30 feet high, I'm17 going to guess, by maybe 10 feet wide.18 They're advertising, as we've19 been talking about today. They give a20 lot of life to the area. I've seen these21 kind of signs actually in many cities the22 world over. Some of them are static23 signs, a lot of them are static. Some of24 them are electronic.25 431 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 I'm sure I could reel off more2 examples.3
I'm trying4 to give the record a flavor of what we're5 talking about. For example, one of the6 things -- and it wasn't necessarily7 advertising, but an electronic treatment8 recently during the Festival of the Arts9 on Broad, you know, the cube was just10 phenomenal. I mean, it was -- it changed11 that intersection tremendously.12 And, of course, there were13 artistic things that were going on. It14 wasn't necessarily -- I think there may15 have been even been advertising, but it16 was --17
For at20 least the festival.21 But, I mean, the whole -- when22 you walked down the street and came upon23 it, it was like such a change of24 attitude. It really just brightened up25 432 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 the whole intersection and the whole2 area. It felt more festive and vibrant.3
Yeah. It was4 probably bigger than people think it was,5 although it certainly wasn't the size of6 some of these. But we're dealing with a7 very big street that, frankly, is not8 very activated at the moment.9 So the thing that's interesting10 here is that I don't know if another city11 that has tried to tie the use of this12 both to creating vibrancy on a street but13 also tying it very specifically to14 economic development that benefits the15 public.16
And though17 I personally happen to love Times Square,18 we're not talking about Time Square.19
I don't think the22 amount of signs that we're talking about23 could even come close to that.24 That's why I think the example25 433 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 at 34th and Seventh is actually a better2 one. It's more in the context of3 buildings that are not covered by signs.4
Mr. Levy,11 Mr. Cordino, Mr. Soens, and Mr. Connors,12 please.13 (Witnesses come forward.)14
Please15 identify yourself for the record and16 proceed.17
Good afternoon. My18 name is Paul Levy. 20 And given the time, I will try21 to be brief. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 supporting this. 7 A simple story Alan went over8 very quickly, but this was the major9 street of the 19th century for shopping10 in the City, and you'll notice every one11 of those buildings has large advertising12 on it. 17 The street, as many know, began18 to go into decline in the 1950s. And in19 that period of time, we had 17 regional20 shopping centers built outside the21 downtown. 23 We began a process of24 revitalization in 1977. 10 Beginning in the '90s, this11 city began a huge investment in the12 hospital industry. Going from the east,13 Independence Visitor Center and a new14 home for the Liberty Bell, those were the15 number-one and number-two destinations in16 the City. In terms of visitation, the17 Constitution Center, the President's18 House. 24 It's a simple message. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 street has enormous opportunity based on2 investment and hospitality and3 convention, but it's a hole in the middle4 of the donut. 13 As Alan said, virtually all of14 the major buildings -- and John Connors,15 who's done almost all the historic16 preservation on the street was using17 federal incentives that are no longer18 there. 2 I think, Councilman Kenney, you3 raised this on . We have a4 digital moving screen in front of the5 Kimmel Center. We have checked with6 traffic police; there have been no7 accidents there. 12 I want to emphasize on the13 bottom of 17 that all of those one-story14 buildings cannot stick signs on their15 roof based on this ordinance because they16 fail to meet the minimum width. 4 And then, as Alan said, a5 minimum of 10 million must be invested6 back into these buildings. 8 I will just say, in a9 comparison, that this is more10 conservative -- far more conservative11 than New York, far more conservative than12 Los Angeles, far more conservative than13 Toronto. 15 The last image is hard to16 interpret, but we did a computer17 modeling, looking from all the high-rise18 apartments and condominiums in Society19 Hill. 23 I think Nick is going next. )2
Joe Cardino from3 PREIT was unable to stay. And so, why4 don't you introduce yourself.5
My name is Dennis9 Bauer. I'm with the law firm of Saul10 Ewing, and we represent the Pennsylvania11 Real Estate Investment Trust, PREIT.12 I'll just keep my remarks very brief.13 PREIT, as you know, has14 substantial interest in the district15 that's proposed -- the Gallery and16 Strawbridge -- and PREIT strongly17 believes that this is an important tool18 for the redevelopment of that19 neighborhood in which it has such a20 substantial interest.21 And with that, I conclude my22 comments.23
Thank you.24 Who's next?25 441 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 (Witness comes forward.)2 MR SOENS: I'm Pete Soens, from3 SSH Real Estate. And just by way of4 background, we own nine office buildings5 in Philadelphia along with our partners,6 seven of which are east of Broad Street,7 and we just recently completed a8 $30 million apartment renovation of an9 office building at Twelfth and Chestnut10 into 100 high-end apartment units. So we11 have a very large stake in Market East12 and in the long-term success of the13 corridor.14 We acquired the Girard Estate15 site about three years ago and have been16 working towards different development17 options and plans to try to develop the18 site or certain parcels.19 We focus most of our attention20 on the Market Street building, which is21 the first building you see on the handout22 there, based on the location across the23 street from the Loew's to the Marriott24 and the entrance of the Convention25 442 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 Center.2 We incorporated the sign3 district bill into our marketing efforts.4 And through that, we've been able to5 secure an anchor retail tenant for6 200,000 square feet that we're7 negotiating a lease with now that would,8 in essence, you know, kick off this9 project.10 And, basically, they -- the11 sign district bill did two things for us.12 It, one, created some excitement and some13 vitality for this anchor tenant to14 believe that there's a long-term plan for15 Market East.16 And it also, as Paul mentioned,17 kind of helped the revenue to bridge that18 gap, which has been the biggest issue in19 Philadelphia. The rents don't support20 new construction, but that helped with21 that.22 The result is really on of your handout, which is a 450,000-24 square-foot retail center, with the25 443 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 anchor tenant on two floors, and then the2 second floor and first floor will be3 additional national retailers that will4 come in with them, parking underground,5 and we're going to also open up the6 concourse to the subway below, which will7 be a big amenity for the commuters in the8 City.9 So I think the last page is10 important because it shows, as Paul said,11 we had our architect maximize to give you12 really a good visual of what this will13 look like on a new building in the14 rendering.15 And the third page shows that16 we maximized the amount of signage that17 could be put on the building based in18 compliance with the ordinance19 So we think the --20 esthetically, I think the picture is, you21 know, is very clear on the difference in22 quality of the first building and the new23 building.24 And the economic impact lastly25 444 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 is 1334 jobs, 687 of which would be2 long-term, permanent annual jobs in the3 city. And we think without the sign4 district bill, this will not be a reality5 And we appreciate your6 consideration. Thank you.7
Actually,8 it's a pretty dramatic change from what's9 there now to what's proposed. It's just10 pretty phenomenal, what the new look is.11 And I think also, the12 brightness, or the ultimate brightness of13 the street, will create a very safe14 feeling in environment, I think, overall.15 I mean, in the kind of16 transition from Old City through the17 historic area and then into this kind of18 lit up place to do business.19
A very sad20 commentary. The concierges of the hotels21 on East Market Street direct all of their22 people to go West Walnut Street in the23 evening 'cause there's no vitality on the24 street.25 445 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 We think between what PREIT is2 proposing to do with the Gallery with3 restaurants and cafés and what SHS is4 proposing to do really can add life,5 street life, and capture the economy of6 the hospitality evening economy, which7 will be very helpful.8
Who's next?9 Is there any more presentation? Who's10 next?11 (Witness comes forward.)12
22 And 2011 marks 25 years on East23 Market Street for Brickstone. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 square feet of Class A development at a2 cost -- an initial cost of just about a3 half a billion dollars. 9 So we have been toiling on East10 Market Street for the better part of11 two-and-a-half decades, most of my adult12 life. 15 And we are delighted that we16 have new partners in the endeavor. When17 we started, we had Wanamaker's and18 Strawbridge & Clothier, and Reading19 Company and PNB and Stern's and Rohm and20 Haas, all of which are now extinct. 22 And we have been promoting the23 idea of large-format signs for the better24 part of six or seven years now. 3 You're exactly right when you4 say that the environment will be5 dramatically changed by the large-format6 sign package. 17 It is also true that18 speculative investment on East Market19 Street is probably not possible without20 some help. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 So we need other tools to help2 make this happen. 5 There seems to be a particular6 aversion to signage on historic7 properties, and I wanted to address that8 as well because, obviously, we have a9 vested interest in those historic10 properties. 15 It has -- it's sort of ironic16 that when we were doing the renovations,17 the guidelines under the Secretary of the18 Interior's process for certification19 would not have allowed us to do the20 Wanamaker Building or the Litt Brothers21 Building or, for that matter, the City22 Hall Annex. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 there's was, there's no such thing as an2 880,000-square-foot heritage icon. 10 We are constitutionally11 incapable of desecrating a historic12 structure. 14 Litt Brothers has historically15 had, since its inception, rooftop signage16 approximately 16 feet high and 600 feet17 long. And in the handout that I gave18 you, you can see from it's earliest19 inception in 1898, that signage was20 there. 6 But I think that it would be7 just one more element that would make the8 street more dynamic, the property that9 much more dynamic. 12 I don't think -- and, by the13 way, there's no attempt to sidestep the14 historic process or anything else. 23
Thank you.24 Thank you very much for your testimony.25 451 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 Councilman Clarke would like to2 question Mr. Greenberger.3
Real quick.10 This is pretty exciting stuff.11 Mr. Greenberger, I've actually12 had conversations with Councilman DiCicco13 over the last year or so about, you know,14 the process that he had established in15 working through the lighting of Market16 Street and had some areas that I'd like17 to see developed, that needed some level18 of stimulus -- not necessarily money from19 the federal government, but possibly from20 other outside sources of revenue.21 And looking at North Broad --22 and I don't want to be specific in terms23 of the location 'cause I don't want to24 give people a heads-up on where the next25 452 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 level of opposition may be.2 But my question is from the3 City's perspective, a planning4 perspective, is this type of development5 something that you could -- you, the6 City, or the Planning Commission could7 conceivably support in areas other than8 East Market or traditional downtown9 areas, up in maybe other commercial10 corridors, on larger corridors?11 Just generally. And I know you12 can't -- you're not responding to a13 specific location, but where would you14 guys come down on something like that?15
There have16 been no other areas that we've discussed17 that would use this tool.18
So it just20 simply wasn't discussed.21 However, as you know, we're22 deeply interested in places like North23 Broad Street. And I don't want to say24 never say never.25 453 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 What I'd like to see happen is2 this take root in a place like Market3 East and see how it does, prove the4 point, and show what it can do:5 Demonstrate that it does the economic6 development, which is important, and7 demonstrate that the character of the8 street that would come as a result of it9 is agreeable and would be an exciting10 thing.11 So for me, that's my first12 order of business.13 If that proves out and then14 there's a belief that that has15 applicability elsewhere, of course we'd16 want to talk about that, absolutely.17 Separate but sort of related to18 it, not related necessarily to the signs,19 but we're deeply interested in working20 with you and other Councilmembers to find21 similar kinds of economic-development22 tools that we might be able to apply in23 other areas of the City that are specific24 to both improvement of character of place25 454 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 as well as the capacity to do economic2 development.3 So in another area of the City,4 it might not be signs; it might be5 something else.6
All right.7 Let me make sure I understand it in terms8 of your --9
I'm not13 trying to -- you know, I'm not holding14 back here. I just --15
I19 understand. No, I mean, it's kind of20 hitting you, you know, blind.21 In terms of the potential for22 your support, if it was a comparable type23 of development, a comparable size24 corridor, which Broad Street is, you say25 455 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 that you may want to wait and see if this2 is successful.3
Does that6 mean until this is approved, first of7 all, and then developed, and then there's8 an analysis done on the economic health9 of the project, you would not be10 interested in considering something in11 another location that somebody might, six12 months from now, say, You know what? I13 like what's being proposed down there.14 I'm interested in developing something15 like that.16 Would your response be, Well,17 you have to wait until three, four, five18 years, six years, until this thing on19 Market Street is done?20
No. I know21 your question, and I don't think it's22 that kind of time period. I think we23 need to see over the next probably year24 or two whether projects start to form.25 456 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 You know, I mean, getting done2 is one thing. I'd like to just see them3 get formed, get financing, and feel like4 they're moving ahead.5 If we see real signs that this6 tool helps do that, obviously, we'd be7 interested, then, in having another8 discussion, or other discussions, about9 other areas.10 And that said, I don't think11 this is a tool that you would just12 generally apply to any area of the City.13
But16 absolutely, we'd want to have to have --17 (Indiscernible; parties talking18 over each other.)19
I don't20 want to belabor it, but my point is, if a21 developer that can show the capability of22 developing a site, using this tool --23
-- in a25 457 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 comparable location, with a comparable2 style, would that --3
Would you6 look at that as a standalone project in a7 standalone proposal separate and aside8 from the time frame of this?9
Yeah. I10 mean, that would make it worthy of, then,11 a further discussion to be taken12 seriously elsewhere; I do agree with13 that.14 Because what we'll wind up15 seeing is, we'll see a business plan that16 shows how this tool sort of fits into the17 economic development and the financing of18 a project. And we'll see designs.19
And I think21 we'll be able to judge from there whether22 the tool is an effective one. And I23 think, you know, barring flattening of24 the economy, I think we'll see that25 458 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 relatively soon, in the next 12 to 242 months.3
Thanks you7 very much for your testimony.8 Is Mr. Gallery in the room?9 Amy Hillier? You're Mr. Gallery?10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I am11 not. I work for the Preservation12 Alliance, and he left me a statement that13 he'd like me to read into the record.14
Okay, hold15 on.16 Amy Hillier.17 Greg Young. Is Greg Young in18 the room?19 Steve Wexler.20 Please come forward, identify21 yourself for the record, and proceed.22 (Witnesses come forward.)23
Please24 identify yourself for the record and25 459 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 proceed.2
My nature is Ben3 Leech. I'm the Director of Advocacy for4 the Preservation Alliance. John Gallery5 has prepared a statement that he'd like6 to put into the record.7 The proposed amendments to Bill8 100720 result in a bill that is highly9 unfavorable to the important historic10 landmark buildings located along Market11 Street. The Preservation Alliance urges12 you not to approve Bill 100720 in its13 current form.14 Market Street, between Seventh15 and 13th, contains many of Philadelphia's16 most outstanding historic buildings.17 These include Litt Brothers, Strawbridge18 & Clothier, the Reading Terminal19 Headhouse, PSFS. All these buildings are20 listed on the Philadelphia Register of21 Historic Places and on the National22 Register of Historic Places.23 In addition, most of the24 buildings on the south side of Market25 460 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 between Seventh and Eighth are also2 listed on the National Register.3 Allowing large-format signs on4 any of these historic buildings is5 inappropriate and would significantly6 detract from the primary reasons visitors7 come to Philadelphia; that is to8 appreciate its historic character.9 Moreover, all of these10 buildings are generally in very good11 condition and are not poorly maintained,12 underperforming, or outmoded, the terms13 used in the bill to define why14 large-format signs should be testified on15 buildings in the Market East area.16 The version of this bill,17 introduced in October 2010, explicitly18 stated in Section 14-1604-249(A) that19 historic buildings would be excluded from20 this bill unless, during its history,21 that building had an exterior sign22 equivalent to the one proposed.23 This was a minimally acceptable24 provision. However, as the Preservation25 461 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 Alliance stated in previous comments on2 this bill, no such signs should be3 allowed on any of these historic4 buildings.5 We are also concerned that the6 signs on these buildings abut historic7 buildings and will detract from these8 buildings, and are concerned that9 allowing a sign to turn the corner along10 South 12th Street will have a very11 negative effect on the PSFS Building.12 As we know, the second floor is13 the Lowe's Hotel main ballroom, and it14 has a very large glass window facing15 east. A large-format sign across the16 street may have a negative impact on the17 use of this ballroom for events and a18 negative impact on the hotel.19 We urge the committee to reject20 this bill or to amend the bill to21 prohibit large-format signs on any22 historic building listed on the23 Philadelphia Register or abutting any24 building listed on the Philadelphia25 462 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 Register.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I just3 have a question.4 The last paragraph before the5 last, "We are concerned that signs on6 buildings that abut historical buildings7 will detract from these buildings."8 You've mentioned the PSFS Building.9
Mm-hmm.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Isn't11 across the street a huge guitar? You12 think that guitar in any way minimizes or13 causes some loss of business or character14 to the Loewe's building?15
Well, I think the16 concern is from the ballroom, and I don't17 know what --18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You can19 see it from the ballroom. I mean, you20 see Hard Rock Café.21
I think it's a22 matter of opinion.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's24 what most of it comes down to.25 463 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 Thank you.2
My name is Steven9 Wexler, and I'm President of Society Hill10 Civic Association.11 I am here this afternoon out of12 two concerns. One is for my constituents13 and myself concerning large-format,14 programmable digital advertising and the15 visibility of same from Society Hill.16 There seems to be a rather17 informal criteria developing in the18 Planning Commission and in Council19 regarding visibility and visual intrusion20 of advertising signs that are coming into21 our culture and its visibility from the22 residences.23 We have seen this happen24 several times in individual cases, from25 464 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 billboards along highways and the Race2 Street hotel project and other instances.3 In this case, I think there is4 a concern for Society Hill in the fact5 that we are separated by not just6 proximity in terms of feet, but in7 height.8 There are five high-rise9 residential towers in Society Hill that10 are separated from Market Street by the11 very low-rise Jewelers Row District and12 the Gimbel's site. They are the 40-some13 St. James Towers, the NWAR building,14 Hopkinson House, and the two high-rise15 towers of Independence Place.16 I personally live at Hopkinson17 House, on the 18th floor, which is not18 quite halfway up the building. And from19 my apartment, I can see the sidewalk in20 front of the former Strawbridge's21 building and the entire height of that22 building at Eighth and Market Streets and23 a half of the Gallery.24 The problem will probably be25 465 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 more severe for my neighbors at the2 St. James Towers in terms of the3 visibility of flashing, moving,4 distracting, very bright digital signage.5 So there's a quality-of-life6 issue at play here, even though the7 distance is somewhat greater than what we8 talked about this afternoon in Pennsport9 of a large billboard adjacent to10 neighbors.11 In addition, I think that we12 saw a five-star sales team bring us a13 very exciting new idea, including the14 Planning Commission, for revitalizing15 what is a sad problem for Philadelphia,16 which is the lack of vitality along17 Market Street.18 And I think that having been19 involved as chairman the Central Delaware20 Advocacy Group and Urban Planning for the21 last six years that we might be asked to22 take a rather unusual risk with urban23 planning in Philadelphia, as the24 Preservation Alliance points out, with25 466 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 our unique history and legacy in2 Philadelphia on a new and untested idea3 in terms of this large, digital-format4 advertising.5 This isn't New York, it's not6 Hong Kong, and I've heard very little to7 convince me that this large-format8 brightness on the street is going to9 stimulate the kind of investment in the10 Market East corridor that seems to be a11 solution for what is now a moribund12 commercial district.13 So I would really like Council14 to very carefully consider where is the15 proof, what is the rationale, and what16 are the chances that this gamble with the17 cultural heritage of Philadelphia is18 going to pay off and is perhaps a smaller19 test project, more information. Is this20 really is the scale of the project that21 we need to take.22 And, also, I would like to23 point out that we're making an assumption24 here, is that the tourism that visits the25 467 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 historical icons of Independence Mall,2 the Liberty Bell, Independence Hall, and3 the Constitution Center is daytime4 tourism, that there are events held there5 at night, but people who come to visit6 Philadelphia do other things at night,7 and they're not traveling up and down8 Market Street to visit Independence Mall9 at night.10 And we hope that they'll visit11 the riverfront, but they're going to12 other venues at night so that this is not13 a major thoroughfare necessarily.14 And that will be the end of my15 comments. Thank you.16
I don't19 want to get in a debate, and you do a20 great job with your organization.21 But I think that's the point,22 that people aren't there. We want to try23 to bring people in.24
I agree with you25 468 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 that Market Street needs to be animated2 at night.3
I doubt -- I just5 dispute that we've proved that the6 overhead signs on buildings are the way7 to animate that.8 To animate a street, you need9 activity at street level, inside the10 buildings. You need retail, you need11 restaurants, you need things going on12 inside the buildings that are going to13 motivate people to walk down that14 sidewalk. And signs by themselves don't15 do that.16
Well, not17 by themselves, but I think that's part of18 it. I think that's the idea, to get that19 whole area stimulated.20 But, okay, we're not going to21 agree on that.22
Thank you.24 Councilman DiCicco.25 469 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah,2 thank you.3 Steve, your last comment about4 sidewalk bringing people in. This whole5 conversation began with me and PREIT6 maybe three years ago, maybe even a7 little bit longer, about the Gallery, and8 how will they be able to reconfigure the9 skin of the Gallery, change the10 appearance to bring activity at the11 street level in.12 And that -- we're really saying13 the same thing. And a lot of -- some of14 that, the way we get there is by being15 able to do some signage.16 I put it on the table there. I17 don't know if the public had a chance to18 see one of the proposals. If you flip to19 the next page, that's currently what's on20 Market, and that's what would happen,21 could happen, with the proposed signage22 legislation.23
Well, I can offer24 information that we've gotten during the25 470 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 Central Delaware master planning process,2 is that once you get above maybe 15 or 203 feet above a pedestrian's head, a4 building is just tall. Yeah, light and5 activity through the windows up there is6 a good thing. But in the distance, you7 can see a building with a sign on it and8 advertising that's good. But when you're9 up against the building wall, above a10 certain height, it's just tall.11 And maybe it's lit, maybe it's12 not. Maybe you feel safe, maybe you13 don't. That's more a matter of the14 streetscape itself rather than the15 building that you're standing next to.16 So I just want to point out to17 Council that I don't really read the18 proof that this investment that we're19 making, this incentivization that we're20 giving to landowners, which is pretty21 hefty, is an idea that has been22 resoundingly proven to be a worthwhile23 investment.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, I'll25 471 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 agree on the tall-building theory about2 PSFS.3
Mm-hmm.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I mean, we5 know it's there 'cause we're6 Philadelphians. Unless you live in the7 distance, most people don't see the PSFS8 sign. You do, however, see the PECO sign9 even pretty much at street level, and10 Comcast as their thin.11
Well, Comcast is a12 different thing because you have the13 animation within the lobby, and you're14 forced -- you're out on the sidewalk, so15 you look across this interior space to16 see the Jumbotron at Comcast. And so,17 that's not the same thing.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah, I19 respect -- you and I have had a great20 relationship over the last 16 years, and21 you've always been very reasonable, so I22 do appreciate your coming in today.23 I think that the devil might be24 in the details. And what we're trying to25 472 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 accomplish may not necessarily be signage2 on the top of the building but also on3 the façade of the building, not unlike4 the Hard Rock Café is obviously an5 extreme example with the guitar.6
Yeah.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But that8 is the kind of thing we're looking at.9
I do want to10 reiterate my quality-of-life issues for11 my constituency. Several hundred,12 probably 5 or 600, households are going13 to have these lights shining into their14 living rooms. And if we've established15 the precedent of we're considerate of16 people who live within sight of flashing,17 very bright billboards, all you have to18 do is walk down Market Street and look19 across, and you can easily see five very20 well-kept, in a very good neighborhood,21 high-rise buildings, and you're looking22 into people's living rooms, albeit from a23 distance.24 And I am duty-bound to make25 473 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 that point to Council.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.3
Thank you.4 Please identify yourself for5 the record.6
My name is Amy7 Hillier. I'm an assistant professor of8 city and regional planning at the9 University of Pennsylvania School of10 Design. And my research focuses11 primarily on public health, and that's12 what I came to speak with you about. I'm13 also a resident of West Philadelphia.14 I have a number of serious15 concerns about the proposal, and I'll16 just outline.17 The first is that Philadelphia18 already has liberal signage laws,19 particularly around accessory signs. And20 even the liberal laws we have are not21 being systematically enforced, and that's22 been an issue in the neighborhoods, and23 that's something that I've researched.24 As a result, our kids are25 474 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 disproportionately exposed to ads for2 unhealthful products such as sugary3 beverages, alcohol, tobacco, even tobacco4 on corner stores.5 And our research, which I'm6 happy to share, compared Los Angeles,7 Austin, and Philadelphia. And8 Philadelphia had by far the most ads for9 unhealthful products, and they are10 clustered around places where kids spend11 time, so schools and daycares.12 And we know that because of the13 grandfathering of billboards that were14 within 660 feet of schools that kids are15 further exposed to that.16 There's one school right in17 this corridor on Market Streets. There's18 a daycare that's right in this proposed19 zone. And then Constitution High School20 and the public library are just off21 Market Street, just south of Market22 Street.23 I spent time at Constitution24 High School this spring, and I don't know25 475 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 if folks know it but it's a fabulous2 place where people are doing really good3 stuff. The kids pour out of their at the4 end of the day, and they go to the Eighth5 Street stop on the Market-Frankford El.6 So whatever's in that corridor, these7 kids -- you know, not even to say all of8 the kids that are spending time at the9 Gallery.10 A primary problem with this is11 that we cannot regulate the content of12 what goes on those ads. It could be a13 four-story Sprite bottle, it could be the14 ad for the new iPhone.15 It's unconstitutional. We've16 tried -- Council, to your credit, has17 tried to regulate content of ads around18 places that kids spend time; we can't.19 Once it's there, we have no control over20 the content of those ads.21 Just to end, I'd say that I'm22 extremely proud as a public-health23 researcher to be working in a city that24 is really leading the way nationally with25 476 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 its communities putting prevention to2 work campaign around obesity and tobacco3 cessation. We've spent tens of4 thousands, if not hundreds of thousands,5 of dollars in this city on a media6 campaign to help people make healthful7 choices. And, you know, that's the city8 that I want to live in.9 As a researcher, I would say10 I'd love to see Market East revitalized;11 I think all of us would. But there's12 really no evidence that this, which is a13 pretty modest proposal, would be enough14 to change an historic problem that we've15 seen for a long time with a lack of16 vitalization.17 And I'd say, at the very18 minimum, I would think that Council19 should call for a health-impact20 assessment on something of this21 significant of change in an historic22 corridor so we could actually do a23 thorough assessment of what the health24 impact would be on the people who spend25 477 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 time there and live there.2 Thank you.3
Thank you4 for your testimony.5 Any questions for this witness?6 (No questions.)7
Seeing8 none, Jon Snyder, Jovida Hill, Ursula9 Reed, Mary Tracy, Norma Van Dyke.10 (Witnesses come forward.)11
You can12 identify yourself for the record and13 proceed.14
Certainly. Thank15 you, Councilman Kenney and members of the16 Rules Committee, for having me here17 today. My name is Jonathan Snyder. I18 graduated from the University of19 Pennsylvania, with my master's in city20 planning. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 accessory signs. And I'm currently a2 Samuel S. 12 The first finding was that13 other cities have found that when14 properly regulated, very large-format15 signs serve materially useful purposes in16 areas having a high volume of pedestrians17 and a concentration of hospitality,18 entertainment, or retail uses19 What materially useful20 advantages? 2 In other cities, they're taking3 various approaches to signage. Houston,4 Texas bans billboards, new ones. El5 Paso, Texas bans new billboards. 5 Local residents and area6 workers already know what the area has to7 offer. 13 The area already has room for14 development, yet no development has15 occurred, and one cannot expect signage16 to induce demand to an area with limited17 amenities18 However, with the expansion of19 the Convention Center and an eventual20 need for more hotels, Market East would21 be a great place to expand. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 Next finding. 7 Two cities come to mind known8 for their signage districts. Times9 Square, New York City, which has gone10 through many ups and downs but has the11 underlying theater district as a draw to12 the local area. 15 Those two districts have an16 underlying draw, which Market East does17 not. Many world-class cities are not18 known for their signage. London. "21 The next finding. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 technology, or modern commercial2 feasibility in areas of a high density of3 hospitality, entertainment, and retail4 uses inhibit the full commercial5 potential of such areas and detract from6 the positive experience of patrons,7 shoppers, and tourists. This is not in8 dispute9 Signage is not the answer. It10 would obscure the very enhancements11 you're attempting to make. The way to12 create a worthy space for patrons,13 shoppers, and tourists is to break up the14 visual monotony of the streetscapes so15 more trees, varied sidewalk materials,16 more interesting architecture, et cetera,17 provide people a central gathering space18 or at least street furniture adjacent to19 restaurants and cafés, and provide the20 retail experience that will attract21 visitors22 Signage may visually stunning23 in some circumstances. 4 Next finding. 9 Now, the proposed legislation10 states that owners thus invest at least11 $10 million into their property, and you12 can use the sign revenues to offset that13 investment. They will still realize a14 pretty substantial profit15 What happens if they decide16 that the sign is the improvement, and the17 Planning Commission concurs? 20 There are other ways of21 financing the improvements that do not22 rely upon the commercialization of public23 space. And moreover, it turns public24 space into a commodity. 4 This extracts a social cost,5 which is very difficult to quantify. I6 personally think it represents a taking7 of public space, but this cost cannot be8 factored in9 The next finding. Market10 Street, between Seventh and 13th Street,11 has historically been a high-density12 shopping entertainment corridor in the13 City, unique in its scale and scope, with14 simple traffic patterns and slow-moving15 traffic. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 A sign's purpose is to draw2 your attention. Another way to say this3 is that they distract you. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 This area needs investments,2 and a carefully crafted plan to achieve3 increased commercial activity. 8
Thank you9 for your testimony.10 Please identify yourself for11 the record.12
Good afternoon.13 My name is Rich Burnfield. I'm the Chief14 Financial Officer for SEPTA.15 SEPTA supports the proposed16 legislation and enhancements of Market17 Street East Corridor between Seventh and18 13th Streets. Market Street East is a19 major transit corridor with SEPTA, New20 Jersey Transit, and the Philadelphia21 Phlash tourist bus serving this corridor.22 In the early 1990s, SEPTA23 committed to this corridor with the24 acquisition of the 1234 Market Street25 487 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 office building. Over the last 15 years,2 SEPTA has invested more than $70 million3 to acquire, renovate, and modernize this4 building.5 This office tower has6 maintained close to 100 percent occupancy7 with its central location to City Hall,8 the Pennsylvania Convention Center, along9 with providing excellent transit access.10 The proposed legislation would11 further stimulate development and12 investment by building owners in this13 corridor by the requirement to invest in14 their facilities. These improvements15 would promote the use of public16 transportation in this corridor.17 SEPTA supports this legislation18 and looks forward to Council's favorable19 consideration.20
Thank you21 for your testimony.22 Please identify yourself for23 the record and proceed.24
My name is Jovida25 488 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 Hill, and I am the former Board Chair of2 SCRUB, the public voice for public space.3 I am also very proud to have4 served on this board with two of the5 City's biggest cheerleaders: The late6 Judith Eden, who served on the Zoning7 Board; and the late Lenore Burson8 I take this risk at sounding9 crass for even bringing up their names in10 this setting, but I'm not using their11 names in vain; I only recall them because12 they were passionately opposed to13 unregulated outdoor advertising, and I14 share their passion.15 I want to make it very, very16 clear that I support development efforts17 to revitalize Market East. I'm also old18 enough to remember when this part of town19 was an economic engine for the City, with20 the likes of Strawbridge's, Gimbel's,21 Litt Brothers, and Snellenburg's.22 I also remember that the new23 best thing was the Gallery at Market24 East, and we know that the Gallery never25 489 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 lived up to its hype.2 In any case, I appear before3 you today to ask you to be very careful4 about considering this bill. This would5 have an enormous effect on the landscape6 of outdoor advertising.7 First of all, I think it is a8 false argument that the only way Market9 East can be revitalized is to allow10 advertising messages on digital11 non-accessory signs.12 If revitalizing Market East13 makes sense -- and we all agree that it14 does -- it makes absolutely no sense that15 the only way for solvency is to trade our16 public space for non-accessory digital17 signage. It's illogical to think that18 turning Market Street East into Las Vegas19 is in our best interest.20 Please keep in mind that this21 is the backyard of Independence Mall, the22 Liberty Bell, the President's House, the23 Betsy Ross House, and the Constitution24 Center. This is Philadelphia. Market25 490 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 Street East is not Times Square South.2 My fear is that this bill could3 also create new precedents in terms of4 what is permissible. This bill clearly5 is not permissible under current Zoning6 Code laws, and the Zoning Code Commission7 has yet to determine what is in the best8 interests of the City with regard to9 non-accessory digital signs. I believe10 this bill is premature.11 In my own neighborhood, Craig12 Leban, the Inquirer food critic, has13 already started referring to Callowhill14 Street as "Callowhill Restaurant Row."15 And once the Barnes Foundation in the16 Parkway and the proposed granary project17 development is complete, what would keep18 an entrepreneur from asking that my own19 neighborhood, where I live a half a block20 from Callowhill Street and the Barnes,21 becomes an entertainment district22 eligible for the signs requested in this23 bill. I would absolutely, positively24 hate this designation.25 491 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 As far as I can tell, this bill2 is nothing more than putting lipstick on3 a pig. And I implore you that4 Philadelphia has enough to offer that we5 are not pigs, and we are not in need of6 lipstick.7 Rather, Market Street East is a8 diamond in the rough, and this bill9 offers absolutely nothing to make it10 shine.11 And I'm sorry that Councilman12 DiCicco has left because it's not in my13 prepared testimony, but I was absolutely14 offended that he compared SCRUB to a15 convicted criminal. I am offended by16 that.17
Thank you18 for your testimony.19 Who's next?20 (Witnesses come forward.)21
Please22 identify yourself for the record and23 proceed with your testimony.24
My written testimony25 492 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 says "good morning," so I've been here2 since 10 o'clock.3
My name is Ursula5 Reed. I've been a resident of Center6 City, Old City, Queen Village7 neighborhoods since 1976. 3 I'm surprised that some of the4 other people in this room who are in5 planning positions didn't mention that6 because surely they knew about it. 13 This 685-mile trail, the first14 national historic trail in the15 northeastern United States, extends from16 New Port, Rhode Island to Yorktown,17 Virginia, commemorates the American and18 French alliance in the War for19 Independence. 17 But that is an international18 tourist attraction. 10 Another person who was going to11 be here today is Norma Van Dyke. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 plan is really out of sorts. 2 Lets bring Main Street back to3 its Market Street roots. 10 While we who live here often take history11 for granted, others do not. History is12 Philadelphia's brand. 14 Let's focus on Mayor Nutter's15 goal of making Philadelphia the greenest16 city in the country by 2015. Imagine a17 real green country town. 23 WM. PENN IMPERSONATOR: If I24 could take a moment of your time. 8 And I invited everyone from9 everywhere to come to Pennsylvania to be10 free and safe. And come they did. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 This city is our home. And2 each year, we open our doors to visitors3 from all over the (indiscernible),4 millions of them, in fact. 6 Would we obscure our home to7 their sight? )21
It certainly is24 hard to follow that. I probably should25 503 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 have dressed up as Betsy Ross.2 WM. PENN IMPERSONATOR: Gilding3 the lily again.4
20 They had erected a Dunkin' Donuts sign on21 their building, unlawfully actually. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 banks, people were coming in there to buy2 coffee and donuts. 5 The bank sign would be an6 accessory sign. 13 We've had other ones too. This14 one was at Eighth and Market, and it also15 was unlawful. 23 And I know that's not going to24 happen in this particular bill. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 seems to be precautions on that. S. Supreme4 Court, because the sign was unlawful, and5 our signs are very -- our sign laws are6 every stringent here in Philadelphia,7 when they're enforced. 10 And the building was sold. And11 now, the new owner has invested over12 $9 million. There's condominiums in13 there. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 now. And I think as look and walk down2 Market Street, I would agree with John3 Gallery, we have a lot of great4 buildings, and those buildings shouldn't5 be covered with advertising. And it will6 be so tempting for these buildings7 because this is such a comprehensive --8 from 13th Street down to Seventh Street,9 not -- and how can anybody in this10 economy walk away from 30, 40, 50, 100,11 200, a million dollars in income in a12 year, in two years, in five years. 14 And so, we really are putting a15 sore temptation to turn this historic16 corridor into one of commercialism. 18 So let's move on this. You19 know, this obviously is a building that20 this bill is built for. It's the21 Gallery, and it's tired, and it doesn't22 have the kind of retail in there that a23 lot of us would be looking for on a24 regular basis. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 empty wall apace. 3 But I had a wonderful visit4 along with one of my colleagues, with Joe5 Cordino, who works there and is very6 knowledgeable about malls. 10 But what he has told us is that11 the real problem here is with the lease12 and with the ownership. 3 The other thing, just to review4 again. You know, we have accessory5 signage, we have non-accessory. This is6 accessory signage. 10 But when we start to walk that11 route of non-accessory signage, we open12 up the door to litigation from the13 industry, because how can we say that14 these signs are a danger to the health,15 safety, and welfare, that they contribute16 to blight and disinvestment, which our17 bill says now, and it's very airtight and18 well-litigated, when we turn around and19 we give these findings that we've20 analyzed earlier, you know, one of our21 interns took that apart for us. 23 And, you know, other buildings,24 we talked about this. 3 One of my favorite developers4 in the City is Tony Goldman of Goldman5 Properties, and I've just been amazed at6 what he's been able to do with buildings7 by just removing that kind of frontage,8 putting on more interesting roofs, a9 different kind of siding, and, most10 importantly, bringing in a more varied11 retail. 13 If I've heard it once, I've14 heard it a hundred times, that there's15 nothing going on there. We need to do16 something. No one is there, no one is17 going there. 13 And I think none of them have14 been brought to the table. As we look15 around this room, there are very few16 residents from any of these buildings17 that are. 20 So here we have -- again, I21 would go back to how could we change22 those façades. 7 And then here is the St. 11 And as the President of Scenic12 America, I get calls every week from13 people who suddenly have a digital sign14 in their viewpoint, and you can see these15 signs from up to six files away. 20 And as humans, we're hard-wired21 to look at the brightest light. 11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 into the traffic-safety issues here, but2 they're very real, and that was brought3 up earlier. And there have been numerous4 studies over the last six years that have5 shown a correlation between driver's6 distraction, and I know you don't want to7 hear this --8
-- but anything11 that takes your eyes off the road for two12 seconds or more greatly increases your13 risk for a crash or a near crash.14 And three seconds, 63 percent15 of the accidents are from those eyes off16 the road. And those eyes go off the road17 not just because you're on your cell18 phone but because you're looking at19 something off the road.20 So I think I would ask that if21 we're going to do this, that we do it in22 a much more careful way, that the sign --23 you know, for example, I think when you24 use the computation that is currently in25 513 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 this bill of 24 times a linear square2 foot, well, the Gallery has, I think, 8403 linear feet, so you're really talking4 about twenty-some thousand square feet.5 And I don't see a stipulation in there to6 say what the max can be of a sign.7 And I also -- you know, it also8 worries me that we're going to be9 finding -- I guess I don't have that in10 there. But, you know, we are limiting11 tobacco, but do we want the alcohol and12 do we want it to turn it into a lot of13 casino gambling, where we're luring14 people off and out of Center City down to15 gambling here and other places in the16 State and in New Jersey.17 And once we allow this18 advertising, we really can't go back and19 say, Well, you can't do this but you can20 do this. It can't look like this, it21 can't look like that.22 So I would really ask to23 continue this bill, and let's make it24 better, because right now, I think it25 514 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 still has a lot of areas that need to be2 improved.3 Thank you very much.4
Regarding the10 maintenance and the exterior appearance11 of the Gallery, from my background,12 having worked for the Rouse Company13 during development the development phase,14 I know that the Mall Maintenance15 Corporation agreement, does that still16 exist? And who's responsible for what?17 I mean, the outside of that18 building, if I were still working there19 as assistant general manager and went20 through there with a punch list, there21 would be a number of things that need to22 be addressed from just a retail -- a23 routine maintenance standpoint.24 One thing that really bothers25 515 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 me is those flags that are at the2 entrance to the Market East part of3 Gallery II. Those poles were designed4 for seasonal banners which would hang5 lengthwise and be changed with the6 seasons of the year, not the little --7 what they've done is they've taken down8 those banners, and they just put flags up9 there that hang up. They're filthy, it's10 a disgrace. And so, nobody is minding11 the store when it comes to the routine12 maintenance of that facility.13 The exterior of the building is14 five-hour fire-rated panel that would15 steam-clean beautifully. Now they're all16 streaked and filthy. Who's responsible?17 Is that the City's, or is it PREIT?18
I guess19 you'd have to talk to PREIT. They20 probably could tell you.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's a22 very convoluted situation over there23 between the lease agreements with the24 City and the Redevelopment Authority and25 516 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 PREIT.2 As I said earlier, I've been3 working with PREIT about three years now4 on trying to deal -- figure out ways in5 which we can get some investment in6 there. Again, I'm not a lawyer and I'm7 not even going to try to explain how8 convoluted it is. I had suggested that9 they try to make it more simpler for10 everyone.11 And this -- again, this12 conversation started with that building.13 How do we make it a more attractive14 building? How do we get some more retail15 at the street level so that when people16 are walking, you don't need to walk into17 one of the main entrances; you can walk18 into a restaurant, another type of19 business from the street level and not to20 have to go into the Gallery.21 Kind of what we had when I was22 a kid was all of the retail shops and23 stores were lined up, and you didn't have24 to walk in to this concrete box, if you25 517 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 will.2 (Addressing Councilman Kenney.)3 What?4
They had5 horses too back then.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And they7 had horses in those days. That's right,8 they did. They delivered milk when I was9 a kid, horses delivered milk. That's why10 I'm retiring.11 So anyway --12
I mean, just13 cleaning it up and --14 (Indiscernible; parties talking15 over each other.)16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, but17 somebody's responsible. Whether it's18 RDA, whether it's PREIT.19 Cleaning it isn't going to20 change it. We need a massive overall of21 the building, including the way the22 exterior is designed; change that design.23 And if you're going to have24 individual retailers, they're going to25 518 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 need a sign or some sort of advertising2 to let you know where they are in terms3 of that big box. And that's how this4 whole conversation began. Someone has to5 take responsibility.6 I don't agree with the e-mails7 that I've been getting saying that this8 is going to allow for enormous --9 humongous banners hung on buildings just10 for the sake of advertising. That is not11 the intention; it's certainly not my12 intention.13 And the building that was14 referenced in the slide at Eighth and15 Market, where the Rappaport building was,16 that owner called me more times than I17 can remember, asking me to approve that18 sign. I wouldn't do it, I wouldn't do19 it, because there's got to be some rhyme20 or reason to it.21 It's just not advertising; it22 has to be connected to something. And23 that's what the intent is bill is. Ten24 million dollars is a minimal amount of25 519 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 investment that goes in.2 This is not about putting a3 billboard on what is now a vacant4 building, or could be a vacant building,5 so that the owner of the building can6 generate revenue for himself or herself.7 It's about taking monies,8 revenues and reinvesting in that9 building. And in cases where it's an10 unoccupied building, the building would11 have to be occupied. And if there's a12 building that is occupied now and it's13 vacated, they will lose -- and correct me14 if I'm wrong, Alan, the way I -- I15 remember I put this on the table. I want16 to look at buildings that may be17 currently occupied.18 If for whatever reason, they19 lose their tenants, we don't want20 advertising to be the single only21 generator for that building. They're22 going to have to come up with leases and23 reoccupy that building at 60-some or 7024 percent; I can't remember the exact25 520 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 number.2 So it's not about putting a3 billboard on a building and creating a4 "Billboard Boulevard" on Market Street.5
Well, you know,10 it's great to hear that, and I know the11 intentions are great.12 Would there be possible to add13 amendment on there then too, you know --14 because we're talking twenty years.15 You're not going to be here, I'm not16 going to be here, this Council won't be17 here, that would put a guarantee that,18 you know, if there's litigation that19 needs to be enforcing that, that the20 company would pay for that litigation21 rather than put it on the City and the22 taxpayers because, you know, to go back23 to Councilman Kenney's complaint,24 enforcement is very difficult in this25 521 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201 city, and --2
But the Law6 Department --7 (Indiscernible; parties talking8 over each other.)9
L&I's10 taking out the billboards undercover.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I don't12 have the exact --13 (Indiscernible; parties talking14 over each other.)15
And I think that16 may be --17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think18 there's something in there that because19 it's part of the bill, the language of20 the bill, what other criteria for21 signage, how much signage on the22 building, I think that's already covered23 in there, and I think the enforcement is24 in that language --25 522 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1007201
That part is not.5 And it basically could be that they would6 have to sign a covenant or something. I7 mean, that would be a guarantee.8
William9 Penn is hungry. Let's go.10 Okay, thank you. Thank you for11 your testimony.12
That comes14 to end of our witness list.15 We will end the public hearing16 and convene a public meeting.17 * * *18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 523 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1
The Chair2 recognizes Councilmember DiCicco for a3 motion to approve the two amendments to4 Bill No. 100678.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,6 Mr. Chair.7 I move that the amendments to8 Bill No. 100678 be approved.9 (Motion duly seconded.)10
It's been11 moved and seconded.12 All in favor?13 There are none opposed.14 The amendments are passed.15 The Chair recognizes16 Councilmember DiCicco on a motion on the17 amended bill.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,19 Mr. Chair.20 I move that Bill No. 100678, as21 amended, be reported out this committee22 with a favorable recommendation and that23 the rules of Council be suspended so as24 to permit first reading at our next25 524 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 session of Council.2 (Motion duly seconded.)3
It's been4 moved and seconded.5 All in favor?6 None opposed.7 Bill No. 100678, as amended,8 will be reported out of this committee9 favorably and a request made for a rules10 suspension to allow for first reading at11 our next Council session.12 The Chair recognizes13 Councilmember DiCicco for a motion to14 approve the amendment to Bill No. 100720.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,16 Mr. Chairman.17 I move that the amendment to18 Bill No. 100720 be reported out of this19 committee with a favorable20 recommendation.21
We're22 approving the amendment.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That the24 amendment be approved.25 525 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 (Motion duly seconded.)2
It's been3 moved and seconded.4 All in favor?5 There are none opposed.6 Bill No. 100720 will be amended7 accordingly.8 The Chair recognizes9 Councilmember DiCicco for a motion on the10 amended bill.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,12 Mr. Chairman.13 I move that Bill No. 100720, as14 amended, be reported out of this15 committee with a favorable recommendation16 and that the rules of Council be17 suspended so as to permit first reading18 at our next session of Council.19 (Motion duly seconded.)20
It's been21 moved and seconded.22 All in favor?23 There are none opposed.24 Bill No. 100720, as amended,25 526 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 will be reported out of this committee2 favorably, and a request will made for a3 rules suspension to allow for first4 reading at our next session of Council.5 The Chair recognizes6 Councilmember DiCicco for a motion to7 approve the amendment to Bill No. 110185.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,9 Mr. Chairman.10 I move that the amendment to11 Bill No. 110185 be approved.12 (Motion duly seconded.)13
It's been14 moved and seconded.15 Councilmember Clarke?16
Just for17 the record. Thank you, Mr. Chair.18 Mr. Chair, I just want to say19 for the record that I will be voting no20 on the amended bill, but that doesn't21 necessarily mean that I will not support22 the bill ultimately.23 I asked that the sponsor and24 the developer who had indicated a25 527 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 willingness to do that -- to do so2 between now and the time of the final3 passage come up with either a letter or4 some document that indicates that there's5 going to be a process that will be6 all-inclusive of the pertinent community7 group --8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Understood9 and accepted. Thank you.10
Should the11 record reflect that you approve the12 amendment to this bill?13
Okay. It's15 been moved and seconded.16 All those in favor?17 The amendment's been approved.18 The Chair recognizes19 Councilmember DiCicco for a motion on the20 amended bill, Bill No. 110185.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,22 Mr. Chairman.23 I move that Bill No. 110185, as24 amended, be reported out of this25 528 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 committee favorably and that the rules of2 Council be suspended.3 (Motion duly seconded.)4
Moved and5 seconded.6 All in favor?7 Councilmember Greenlee and8 Councilmember Clarke should be recorded9 as -- well, let the record reflect that10 Council President Verna voted aye on all11 amendments and bills before leaving the12 chamber. The Chair also recognizes that13 the two no-votes on the amended Bill No.14 110185 are Greenlee and Clarke.15 The Chair recognizes16 Councilmember Miller to approve the17 amendment to Bill No. 110302.18
Thank19 you, Mr. Chair.20 I move that the amendment to21 Bill No. 110302, the amendment be22 approved.23 (Motion duly seconded.)24
It's been25 529 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 moved and seconded.2 All in favor?3 There are none opposed.4 The amendment passes.5 The Chair recognizes6 Councilmember Miller on the amended bill.7
I move8 that Bill No. 110302 be reported out of9 this committee, as amended, with a10 favorable recommendation, and further11 move that the rules of Council be12 suspended so as to allow for first13 reading at our next session of Council.14 (Motion duly seconded.)15
It's been16 moved and seconded.17 All in favor?18 There are none opposed.19 Bill No. 110302, as amended,20 will be reported out of this committee21 favorably, and a request made for a rules22 suspension to allow for reading at our23 next Council session.24 The Chair recognizes25 530 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 Councilmember DiCicco on a motion to2 approve Bill No. 110306.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,4 Mr. Chairman.5 I move that Bill No. 110306 be6 approved and that the rules of Council be7 suspended so as to permit first reading8 at the next session of Council.9
Are you10 asking for a favorable recommendation?11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm asking12 for a favorable recommendation.13 (Motion duly seconded.)14
All right.15 It's been moved and seconded.16 All in favor, aye?17 There's one no-vote,18 Councilmember Goode. Let the record19 reflect that Bill No. 110306 will be20 reported out of this committee favorably21 and a request will be made for a rules22 suspension to allow for first reading at23 our next Council session.24 The Chair recognizes25 531 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 Councilmember Clarke for a motion to2 approve Bill No. 110312.3
Thank you,4 Mr. Chair.5 I move that Bill No. 110312 be6 reported out of committee with a7 favorable recommendation and a rules8 suspension to allow for reading at our9 next session of City Council.10 (Motion duly seconded.)11
It's been12 moved and seconded.13 All in favor?14 There are none opposed.15 Bill No. 110312 will be16 reported out of this committee favorably,17 and a request will be made for a rules18 suspension to allow for first reading at19 our next session of Council.20 The Chair recognizes21 Councilmember Greenlee for a motion on22 Bill No. 110344.23
Thank24 you, Mr. Chair.25 532 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 I move that Bill No. 110344 be2 reported out of this committee with a3 favorable recommendation and that the4 rules of Council be suspended to allow5 for first reading at our next session6 City Council.7 (Motion duly seconded.)8
It's been9 moved and seconded.10 All in favor?11 There are none opposed.12 Bill No. 110344 will be13 reported out of this committee with a14 favorable recommendation and a request15 made for rules suspension to allow for16 first reading at our next Council17 session.18 The Chair recognizes19 Councilmember Goode for a motion on Bill20 No. 110345.21
Thank you,22 Mr. Chairman.23 I move that Bill No. 110345 be24 reported out of committee with a25 533 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 favorable recommendation and that the2 rules be suspended so as to permit first3 reading at our next Council session.4 (Motion duly seconded.)5
It's been6 moved and seconded.7 All in favor?8 There are none opposed.9 Bill No. 110345 will be10 reported out of this committee favorably,11 and a request will be made for a rules12 suspension to allow for first reading at13 our next Council session.14 The Chair now recognizes15 Councilmember Clarke for a motion to16 approve the amendment to Bill No. 110347.17
Thank you,18 Mr. Chair.19 I move for the adoption of the20 amendment to Bill No. 110347.21 (Motion duly seconded.)22
It's been23 moved and seconded.24 All in favor?25 534 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 There are none opposed.2 The bill will be amended3 accordingly.4 The Chair recognizes5 Councilmember Clarke for a motion on the6 amended bill.7
I make a8 motion on the amended Bill No. 110347 to9 be reported out of committee with a10 favorable recommendation and a rules11 suspension to allow for first reading at12 our next session of Council.13 (Motion duly seconded.)14
It's been15 moved and seconded.16 All in favor?17 There are none opposed.18 Bill No. 110347, as amended,19 will be reported out of this committee20 favorably and a request will be made for21 a rules suspension to allow for first22 reading at our next session of Council.23 The Chair recognizes24 Councilmember Clarke for a motion Bill25 535 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 No. 110348.2
Thank you,3 Mr. Chair.4 I move that Bill No. 110348 be5 reported out of committee with a6 favorable recommendation and a rules7 suspension to allow for first reading at8 our next session of Council.9 (Motion duly seconded.)10
It's been11 moved and seconded.12 All in favor?13 There are none opposed.14 Bill No. 110348 will be15 reported out of this committee favorably,16 and a request will be made for a rules17 suspension to allow for first reading at18 our next Council session.19 The Chair recognizes20 Councilmember Miller for a motion on Bill21 No. 110377.22
Thank23 you, Mr. Chair.24 I move that Bill No. 110077 be25 536 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 reported out of this committee with a2 favorable recommendation and further move3 that the rules of Council be suspended so4 as to permit first reading at our next5 session.6 (Motion duly seconded.)7
It's been8 moved and seconded.9 All in favor?10 There are none opposed.11 Bill No. 110377 will be12 reported out of this committee with a13 favorable recommendation and a request14 made for rules suspension to allow for15 first reading at our next Council16 session.17 The Chair recognizes18 Councilmember Clarke for a motion on Bill19 No. 110381.20
Thank you,21 Mr. Chair.22 I move that Bill No. 110381 be23 reported out of committee with a24 favorable recommendation and with a rules25 537 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1 suspension to allow for first reading at2 our next session of Council.3 (Motion duly seconded.)4
It's been5 moved and seconded.6 All in favor?7 There are none opposed.8 Bill No. 110381 will be9 reported out of this committee with a10 favorable recommendation and a request11 made for rules suspension to allow for12 first reading at our next Council13 session.14 The Chair recognizes15 Councilmember Reynolds-Brown for a motion16 on Bill No. 110382.17
Thank you,18 Mr. Chairman.19 I move that Bill No. 110382 be20 reported out of committee with a21 favorable recommendation. I further move22 that the rules of Council be suspended so23 as to permit first reading.24 (Motion duly seconded.)25 538 6.7.11 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING1
Moved and2 seconded.3 All in favor?4 There are none opposed.5 Bill No. 110382 will be6 reported out of this committee with a7 favorable recommendation, and a request8 will be made for a rules suspension to9 allow for first reading at our next10 Council session.11 That concludes the business of12 Rules Committee.13 Thank you very much.14 (Proceedings end at 5:38 p.m.)15 * * *16 539 C E R T I F I C A T E1 2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the3 proceedings of the City of Philadelphia4 Council Committee on Rules are contained fully5 and accurately in the stenographic notes taken6 by me on Tuesday, June 7, 2011, and that this7 is a true and correct statement of same.8 9 10 11 _________________________________ 12 JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter13 14 15 16 17 18 19 (The foregoing certification of20 this transcript does not apply to any21 reproduction of the same by any means, unless22 under the direct control and/or supervision of23 the certifying reporter.)24