But you're20 saying that you didn't form the oversight21 committee because there was no support.22 That's what you --23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The24 leadership of the various civics that are25 137 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 in close proximity to this venue just2 said, "We don't want it" basically. End3 of discussion.4
So -- okay.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's why9 I've taken it upon myself to engage with10 the attorney for the applicant to create11 a community benefits development.12
And who13 would that community benefits agreement14 be discussed with?15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It would16 be with Old Port Richmond...17
It's frankly18 open to anyone who wants to join in on19 it.20
And I24 don't -- look, I really understand this25 138 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 whole discussion, but it's getting a2 little far afield of where -- we have --3 actually, there's folks here from the4 community who are going to testify, so5 they can -- I guess rather than trying to6 figure out what they're thinking, we can7 ask them what we're doing and --8
Well, all9 due respect, Mr. Chairman, I'm trying to10 clarity myself --11
-- and I14 understand there are residents from the15 community.16
So, you18 know, we just sat through an hour-and-19 a-half presentation on Chestnut Hill.20 (Indiscernible; parties talking21 over each other.)22
Oh, I'm not23 saying that you can't ask questions. I'm24 just saying that they're here, and we can25 139 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 probably ask them directly as opposed to2 trying to figure out what we think they3 think.4
I just want to8 reiterate that we are open to having9 those discussions and entering into the10 development agreement -- a development11 agreement and participating in a12 coalition --13
You will be18 comfortable in having a -- some sort of a19 committee meeting or a committee put20 together of representatives who chooses21 to be involved in that?22 'Cause it was a very similar23 process in the casino. The official24 position of the FNA was "We don't support25 140 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 it." And then another group, FAC, was2 formed, and then, ultimately, everybody3 got together, and we had a community4 benefits agreement.5 So I understand you have to6 have somebody to talk to; I clearly7 understand that.8
But you're10 saying here that you are prepared to have11 that level of conversation and talk about12 the specific concerns as it relates to13 some of these issues that may come as a14 result, or may not come, 'cause at the15 end of the day, the casino issues did not16 materialize. I mean, it's -- I've never17 seen a traffic jam down there.18
I'm willing to19 enter into those discussions and meetings20 and coalitions.21
And then24 the -- well, you reference the traffic.25 141 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 Did you have a traffic analysis? 'Cause2 I understand that's traditionally the3 concern --4
-- although6 it may not be in the neighborhood, but7 there is traffic that may come through8 the neighborhood. Has that analysis been9 done?10
Yes. As I11 mentioned in my testimony, we had a12 traffic study done.13
And that was15 shared with the Planning Commission, and16 that formed the basis of the zoning17 legislation that was drafted.18 And the study indicated no19 negative impact on any nearby20 intersections because the venue operates21 off-peak to traffic normally.22
And, also, most of24 the traffic going from the venue will be25 142 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 going right on 95.2
I'm sorry.4 Do me a favor. Either of you responding,5 please pull the microphone closer to you.6
Yeah. Then14 one last question. And I think there was15 a reference in terms of -- I think the16 Councilman talked about a conditional17 license?18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: A19 conditional liquor license.20
And that's21 something, Planning, you're familiar22 with, Mr. Kramer, a conditional license23 granted, conditioned upon the operation?24 'Cause I know one of the25 143 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 concerns -- and this is getting very2 detailed. I know the name of the3 particular venue operator hasn't been4 established publicly yet. Well, it's5 kind of been out there.6 And it's clear the level of7 potential negative impact would be based8 on what type of music is played. And I9 don't know legally how you can restrict10 the type of music.11 I mean, there's one type of --12 I'll just reference the Councilman a13 little earlier about a particular group14 that could conceivably bring a crowd that15 may not necessarily be conducive to16 keeping a minimal level of noise versus,17 you know, somebody that's going to do18 opera. I mean, you know, I don't know.19 So have we established -- and I20 don't know if you're going to answer that21 question 'cause you probably can't answer22 it. Have we established a way that we23 can kind of curtail the type of music24 that would be at the facility?25 144 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851
Without being in2 any way discriminatory, that's difficult3 a thing to do in terms of the types of4 music that are being performed.5 What we proposed in our6 development agreement was, the7 conditional license would be based upon8 the operator of the facility being either9 Live Nation or a company similar in scope10 and experience to Live Nation.11
You know, it's13 possible -- you know, who knows if Live14 Nation's going to be -- Live Nation15 tomorrow might be some other company.16 But right now, they're the largest in the17 world.18 If it's someone with, you know,19 a multi-region footprint in the same20 business, that's how we'd like to --21 'cause I think that's the issue. I mean,22 the issue is, who's operating the club,23 right? Or the venue.24
And if I could25 145 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 give an example. I know that the concern2 always boils down to -- that someone has3 a nightclub or a venue. And as the4 business goes bad, then they bring in5 promoters, third-party promoters.6 And the promoters rent the7 space, and they say, Here, it's yours.8 And then the landlord walks away, and9 then the promoter runs and retains10 complete control over the building for11 that night.12 That's not going to happen in13 our agreement. We say that there's no14 third-party promoters to that effect.15
And live Nation18 or whoever that (indiscernible) will be19 will always be operating and in control20 and will never lease the space and say,21 You take it for tonight, you bring your22 own security, you take your money at the23 door.24 So that's how we try to, you25 146 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 know, balance that issue.2
And, again,4 currently, Live Nation has the largest5 presence in that business in6 Philadelphia, in this region. They're7 the largest player in the live-music and8 live-entertainment business in this9 region.10
And, you know,12 they're the world leader as well. So --13 and Philadelphia's a very point important14 market to them so -- such that they have15 a vested interest in making the16 experience a positive experience for17 their patrons and for maintaining a18 positive relationship with the City.19 They do a lot of business with20 the City: Welcome America, Festival21 Pier. They do a -- they have every22 interest in maintaining a positive23 overall experience for everyone involved.24
Correct,25 147 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 okay. All right.2 Thank you.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I have one4 other question.5
Councilman6 DiCicco.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,8 Mr. Chairman.9 The gentleman from Live Nation,10 could you just give us a brief overview11 of how your operation works in terms of12 security, onsite and offsite, the things13 that you do to ensure that there's no14 behavior problems?15
Yes. We're very16 aggressive -- well, not aggressive;17 "aggressive" is the wrong word, but we're18 very proactive in terms of both alcohol19 management and customer safety and20 security.21 So we consider that, you know,22 the property is not just inside the four23 walls; we're responsible for consumers24 coming and going, and we want to create a25 148 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 safe and friendly environment, frankly.2 So in our particular case, you3 know, we would have people outside the4 building, we would have people inside the5 building. Our employees are all trained.6 They are aware and understand how to7 handle alcohol responsibly.8 And we would -- you know, we9 would adapt to -- as we understand the10 building, we would continue to adapt to11 be the industry leader in security that12 we currently are, I think, around the13 country.14 So, you know, we have a pretty15 good training program. You know, in most16 cases, our security are trained four,17 five, six days. And we also hire18 additional security when necessary to19 make sure that we're adequately prepared20 for any event that we put on.21 We're currently promoting22 around the country over 4,000 events, I23 think, safely and with a great track24 record of success as well.25 149 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 So, I mean, I think this would2 just be a continuation of that.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.4 No further questions. Thanks.5
Any other6 questions for these witnesses?7 (No further questions.)8
Seeing9 none, thank you very much.10 Please remain in case you need11 to answer additional questions.12
Captain14 Kram (sp?), Peg Rzepski, Phil Soltzfos,15 Tom Potts; and if Mr. Kaiser's here from16 State Representative Taylor's office.17 (Witnesses come forward.)18
You can19 pull additional chairs up if need be.20 Whoever is prepared to lead21 off, please identify yourself for the22 record and proceed.23
Whoever25 150 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 you'd like. Peg, if you could just pull2 the microphone to you closer, please.3
My name is Peg7 Rzepski. I'm the Democratic ward leader8 of the 31st Ward. 21 This bill -- many are worried22 that this proposal will be a step23 backward to the days of nuisance bars and24 nightclubs along the waterfront. 14 First, the manner in which this15 matter has proceeded has been16 specifically designed to contravene the17 (indiscernible) and interest of the18 surrounding community. 7 Please be advised that this8 community is fully in favor and looks9 forward to appropriate and cohesive10 waterfront development. We respectfully11 maintain that converting a large old12 warehouse into a massive nightclub music13 venue, which Mr. 15 And enabling other similar uses16 within the legislation boundaries is not17 in keeping with the type of true cohesive18 and visionary waterfront development that19 our community has been promised for so20 long. 14 And I have another thing to15 say. 21 If we could not accept this into our22 area, we were to let him know, and it23 would not go there. 3 So with that in mind, we went4 back to the community, we sat down with5 the people in our area. 7 Richmond Street's being closed. The 158 bus is being rerouted; it's going over9 Belgrade and Thompson. 11 And then what they said is12 this: If you put that in front of the13 waterfront property, what could you put14 behind it? Who would want to go behind a15 nightclub? People don't even want to16 live next door to bars, let alone go17 behind a nightclub. 19 So I'm sure other people are20 going to have things to say. I don't21 want to take everybody's time up. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851
Thank you2 for your testimony.3 Captain, would you like to give4 your testimony after you identify5 yourself?6 CAPTAIN KRAM: Good afternoon.7
Good8 afternoon.9 CAPTAIN KRAM: From the Police10 Department's concern, sir --11
Sir, could12 you just identify yourself for the13 record?14 CAPTAIN KRAM: I'm sorry.15 Captain Mike Kram, Commanding Officer of16 the 26th Police District.17
Thank you.18 CAPTAIN KRAM: We started19 hearing about this project a few months20 ago, thanks to our community groups. It21 is a concern to them. They're worried22 about the parking in the neighborhood,23 the impact of the traffic, as well as any24 potential crime.25 156 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 From the Police Department's2 perspective and the 26th District, more3 importantly, 'cause it impacts myself and4 my officers, the most is, what kind of5 resources are we going to need to cover6 this?7 We have a very diverse district8 as far as types of neighborhoods. We go9 from extremely violent to on-the-rise.10 We have some great things going on in the11 community that are resource-intensive.12 Am I going to have to redeploy resources13 out of neighborhoods that we're trying to14 drive down crime to handle issues around15 this nightclub?16 I need to know what type of17 events we're going to have, the type of18 crowd, their security, how they're going19 to handle the crowds.20 I do have a casino detail,21 which we started to cover the Sugarhouse22 area and Delaware Avenue and all.23 It's -- at most, I might have three24 officers per shift working the during25 157 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 midnight, when most of their venues will2 be going on. It's kind of labor-3 intensive down in the casino area with4 the amount of crowds that go in.5 So it would impact the ability6 I have to serve the community, the 26th7 District. So that's my main concern with8 that.9
Thank you.10 Thank you for your testimony.11 Please identify yourself for12 the record, sir.13
Paul Kaiser, from14 State Representative John Taylor's15 office.16 And we oppose this Bill17 1101895. We oppose this -- John's18 district actually is adjacent to the19 Cumberland side of the street. However,20 the neighbors belong to the Old Richmond21 Civic Association; that's the one that22 Peg represented there.23 And most of those neighbors24 have come to us in opposition to this25 158 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 because the meeting that Councilman2 DiCicco made notice of was at the FNA3 grouping. It was an invited meeting of4 several groups.5 Some of those folks did tell us6 that they left because they felt that7 they didn't have the right to vote there8 because it -- to them, the FNA was one9 grouping, and they had already voiced10 their opposition to this at the Old11 Richmond Civic Association.12 So with that respect, we're13 trying -- what you had mentioned,14 Councilman Clarke, is the fact that if15 we're going to have this, it has to be16 something that's a community effort, but17 these folks already thought that what Peg18 had reiterated to them that if they were19 in opposition, it wasn't going to happen.20 So they basically sat down until they21 heard about. And now, all of our folks22 are up in arms about it.23 We also work directly with24 PennDOT. And here's another concern that25 159 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 I have. With the construction of 95, we2 are in constant contact with them.3 Now, I see these boundary lines4 at Beach Street being said that they're a5 wide-open street, it's empty, it's this,6 it's that.7 Well, the ICS Corporation does8 major tractor-trailer hauling at9 different times of the day and night.10 They were told in order for the 9511 expansion, that their truck depot, which12 houses -- the doors are on Richmond13 Street currently today, will now have to14 be moved, and all of those tractor-15 trailers will be put -- the entrances to16 that port will be on Beach Street. So17 Beach Street will now be experiencing18 tractor-trailer traffic.19 So I would believe -- and I'm20 sure that we're going to hear from ICS21 when they see this -- that they're going22 to be asking for constraints on the23 parking and the facilities that they need24 to get those tractor-trailers in and out25 160 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 of Beach Street for.2 That being said, I just want to3 reiterate the fact that we are opposed to4 this bill.5 Thank you.6
Thank you7 very much for your testimony.8 Please identify yourself for9 the record.10
Hi. My name is Tom11 Potts. I am the (indiscernible) director12 for New Kensington Development13 Corporation and also a board member on14 the Old Richmond Civic Association.15 I feel that this project is --16 this project should be put off for at17 least five years, until the construction18 for 95 is finished, in which time PennDOT19 has also talked to the community about20 putting open-air markets underneath of 9521 and some recreational facilities22 underneath 95 from the York Street23 section straight over to Lehigh Avenue.24 These have been plans that were set in25 161 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 motion by PennDOT in the past few months,2 with the Girard Ave. work that's being3 done there.4 These are things that should be5 taken into consideration, and we oppose6 this for that reason. It needs to be put7 on hold.8
Thank15 you, Mr. Chairman.16 Quickly. Ms. Rzepski or17 Mr. Potts, I guess, could answer this.18 You referenced Richmond Street being19 closed. Could you just tell us briefly20 kind of what you see as the impact of21 that being as far as this proposal?22
I live right in2 that area. So with Richmond Street being3 closed, the cars will all be coming onto4 Lehigh Avenue and Cumberland Street.5 Cumberland Street is a one-way street.6
So to get out of8 that property, I don't -- I don't -- the9 people -- what we're afraid of is, all of10 the cars will have to park all along the11 side streets.12 And, by the way, the closest13 house to that area is at Tilton and -- no14 Emery and Cumberland Street, which is a15 Laundromat with people living up and four16 houses right there.17 So I'll dispute, you know, that18 one thing. There is a close house.19 The people there have a lot of20 problems. Most people have a lot of cars21 at this point, two and three in the22 family, and I'm sure everybody goes23 through it.24 If they go to park under25 163 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 I-95 -- some of the neighbors have to2 park under I-95. If they go to park3 under I-95, that brings more traffic into4 the neighborhood.5 The traffic situation is how6 it's going to affect it, I would think.7
Could I answer8 that a little bit from PennDOT's point of9 view?10
They are going to12 have the traffic flow currently in13 their -- in this proposal. Now, that can14 change.15 But currently, what they16 propose is that when Richmond Street17 closes, the northbound traffic will be on18 a temporary road that will come through19 Cumberland Street and onto the railroad20 land all the way up to Allegheny.21 So all traffic coming off of22 Delaware Avenue and flowing north will23 come that way. Right in front of that --24
Just so25 164 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 I'm clear, this is to go to I-95 or --2
Yeah. This is how3 they're going to expand it.4 Once the northbound sections5 are rebuilt and redone, that same road6 will then carry southbound traffic.7 So in the proposed time frames8 of the four years for this expansion,9 that area that you are describing that's10 right in front here will have a very11 definite traffic flow day and night.12
Okay.13 Thank you.14 One more question, if I could.15 Just -- I guess this is to the Captain.16 You heard, I think it was, Mr. Grasso17 earlier talking about this being kind of18 a desolate area and kind of bad things19 are happening here right now.20 Could you comment? He feels --21 and I've heard this argument on a lot of22 things -- if you had activity, that that23 will help, especially his -- he is saying24 that, you know, he has experience in25 165 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 this, you know, there will be security2 concerns addressed, I guess, is what I'm3 trying to say.4 Do you have any comment on that5 one way or another?6 CAPTAIN KRAM: I mean, it's not7 a hot spot of crime; there's nothing8 there. There's two factories there or9 two warehouses there right now.10 The problem we have is behind11 the warehouses on Beach Street. Beach12 Street's a little block; it doesn't even13 look like a street.14
Mm-hmm.15 CAPTAIN KRAM: Between Richmond16 and the river is a large parcel of land17 that's used as a -- for their ATVs and18 motorcycles.19 Usually on a Sunday, if you go20 out there on a Sunday, they do do some21 drag-racing. It is ATVs, motor bikes,22 but they're on that -- they're on that23 parcel of land, which, a lot of time, we24 can't get to 'em.25 166 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 I usually do one operation in2 the spring. We hit it, we confiscate as3 much -- as many ATVs and bikes of that4 nature that we can and a few cars. But5 I -- I mean, that's pretty much it.6 Other than that, it's not a hot7 spot of crime. It doesn't draw any of my8 resources right now.9 When you put a large amount of10 people in there, it's going to impact my11 resources. And that's my concern.12
17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO:18 Mr. 21 People are against change. People have22 concerns; sometimes rightfully, sometimes23 maybe not so rightfully. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 will impact their quality of life. 5 But I get paid to make6 decisions. 11 The most recent was is one I12 referenced a few minutes ago, which is a13 hotel development at Fourth and Race,14 between Fourth and Fifth and Race. 4 It could have been a Hard Rock Café, it5 could have been a Maggiano's. 18 I made an offer and was told on19 a few occasions, "We don't want it. 23 I've taken it upon myself to prepare a24 community benefits agreement. 6 This is like dejà vu. It's7 kind of like the casino issue. 19 Councilman Clarke and I had20 numerous discussions, and he would always21 urge me get it done. 8 But he was prepared. 15 So yes. I said, "If you don't16 want it, it will not get built," but not17 that quickly. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 But when somebody says, "We2 don't want to have a discussion," then3 it's my responsibility, as an elected4 official, to look at the broad picture5 and to say, Does it make sense? Is there6 economic development for the City? Will7 it increase tax revenues? With it create8 jobs? 14 Thank you, Mr. 15
Mr. Chairman, I16 would really like to make one comment, if17 I can.18
First of all,21 Councilman, you know that I've always22 done zoning with you.23 Not against development. Put24 57 homes in an area. Had meeting after25 173 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 meeting.2 When we left that meeting, you3 said, "Go back to your community, run it4 by them," which we did. Get back to you.5 And I said, "The community is in6 opposition to you."7 So you can't say that we didn't8 give due process.9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well --10
At the Fishtown11 meeting, the reason people could not all12 vote -- and half of our community did go,13 because ORCA is one community, FNA is14 another. So you have to live within15 certain boundaries to vote at FNA. So16 out of the hundred-and-some people, not17 everybody could vote.18 The rest of the people were19 voting no because they were from my20 community, but they were not allowed --21 and there is a sign-in sheet on this.22 So I'm not going to argue with23 you. We put 24/24 in, 57 new homes in my24 area, and Planet Fitness. There's no way25 174 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 that my community turns down development.2 I just think a thing of this3 magnitude in front of the riverfront,4 which -- who's going to go there when a5 club of this size.6 No matter what you feel,7 Mr. Grasso, at FNA meetings, said, "This8 is my club, my nightclub." You know that9 and I know that.10 Thank you.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, club12 has -- as I said, Palumbo's, Frank13 Palumbo's was a nightclub, the14 (indiscernible) was a nightclub. There's15 a lot of different clubs.16
Well, I --17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But I18 think, Mr. Chairman, I would just like to19 make one other comment.20 Reference has been made to the21 overlay. I created that overlay. I22 created that overlay.23 The last thing I would do is24 sponsor legislation that will undo that25 175 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 overlay and cause some of the problems2 that we had that caused the overlay to be3 created in the first place.4 I did it in conjunction with5 State Representative Lederer, way back6 when.7 And I also was the person who8 encouraged John Street, when he was9 mayor, to sign an executive order which10 put the PennPraxis, Central Delaware11 Waterfront vision in motion.12 The last thing I'm going to do13 is upset the apple cart on my way out the14 door. That's not what my legacy is going15 to be about. My legacy is that,16 hopefully, I helped stimulate development17 in this city and helped make it a better18 place.19 Thank you.20
Thank you21 very much for your testimony.22 Mr. McElhatton, please, and23 Mr. Schelter.24 (Witnesses come forward.)25 176 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851
Please2 identify yourself for the record.3 MR. McELHATTON: Daniel P.4 McElhatton. M-C-E-L-H-A-T-T-O-N.5
Craig Schelter,6 Schelter & Associates. The last name's7 spelled S-C-H-E-L-T-E-R.8
Please9 proceed.10 MR. McELHATTON: Mr. Chairman11 and members of the Rules Committee, I12 appear today on behalf of Anderson13 Construction, James Anderson, and the14 corporate entities which he owns or15 controls which have property to the rear16 of the proposed rezoned site.17 And I'm here with Craig18 Schelter, whom, all of you know, is a19 renowned expert in land-use planning,20 community development, and zoning.21 Anderson Construction is a22 major contractor, with over 110 employees23 from the City of Philadelphia within the24 City of Philadelphia, and they've25 177 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 remitted over $600,000 in wage taxes to2 the City of Philadelphia in the last3 fiscal year.4 I have written testimony, which5 was previously submitted to Council and6 which I would ask to be incorporated in7 its entirety in the record, Mr. Chairman.8
9 MR. 22 A nightclub is a nightclub is a23 nightclub. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 but the Felton Theater and the Felton2 Club have caused havoc in that community3 anytime it's been open over the last 254 years. 5 In addition, there was a6 question by Councilman Clarke about the7 process, and this process has actually8 started in opposition and mobilizing of9 recent weeks. The legislation was10 proposed and the committee hearing set11 and then withdrawn. And then it was12 reintroduced again or reset. 14 The Planning Commission, in15 their records, knew that this was spot16 zoning when originally introduced because17 it only covered one parcel. 20 But this is clearly still spot21 zoning; it's one parcel within a22 wide-ranging area. It's an island in a23 sea of different zoning. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 It benefits only one party. 6 The second issue that we would7 apply, and that is the damage to the8 community itself. 10 I-95 is not the kind of barrier11 that the Delaware River is. Folks go12 under I-95 all the time, to and from13 Fishtown and to and from Richmond. To14 perceive it as an absolute barrier, it is15 not. 16 In the traffic study that was17 presented to the Planning Commission, the18 presumption was in that study that there19 would be three people in every vehicle20 that would come to that location. That's21 unrealistic. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 the creator of the legislation that2 prohibited nightclubs in this area. That3 he got the plaudits for. 8 There have been allegations or9 statements that there are leases for10 adjacent properties for leasing of11 parking. The Planning Commission did not12 have such leases. 15 And what happens, members of16 the committee, if any of those leaseholds17 are terminated by a bankruptcy? If the18 owner of the adjacent buildings go19 bankrupt, the Bankruptcy Court controls20 that. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 under this ordinance. 2 In addition, the proposed3 venue -- and Mr. Grasso, they talked4 about, Well, we only needed 650 parking5 spots. 7 They're saying, We only need8 650 parking spots, or whatever the number9 is, by virtue of the fact that we have an10 ordinance that makes out a certain11 exception. 15 With 3,000 projected patrons,16 you would need a minimum of 1500 parking17 spaces. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 They also specifically then2 said that they don't know what the impact3 would be on the adjacent landowner to the4 rear, the Anderson property, because they5 never asked or discussed. 10 That property he uses now portions of it11 for a site for accumulation of vehicles12 for the I-95 reconstruction that he's13 been involved in and possibly will be14 involved in in the future. 22 The plans that he also has an23 ability to use this for industrial24 purposes. 21
Councilman22 DiCicco.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,24 Mr. Chairman.25 185 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 Good afternoon, Mr. McElhatton.2 MR. McELHATTON: Good3 afternoon, Councilman.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: From the5 tail-end of your testimony, you talked6 about Beach Street parking from the7 thousands of customers who would be going8 to this venue, using Beach Street to9 park.10 It is a public street. There11 are no parking regulations currently, but12 parking regulations could be put in place13 with the Streets Department. There could14 be no parking anytime, it could be15 parking at certain hours.16 So I don't think that's such a17 heavy lift to deal with Beach Street,18 which is really right now a vacant,19 dangerous street. There is nothing20 there. And it's adjacent to your client.21 And you're representing22 Mr. Anderson or the community? You're23 representing Mr. Anderson.24 MR. McELHATTON: I've said I'm25 186 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 representing Mr. Anderson.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But you3 talked so much about the community stuff,4 I wasn't sure who you were representing.5 MR. McELHATTON: Well, I think6 he has a right because anything he does7 with this parcel can affect --8 (Indiscernible; parties talking9 over each other.)10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I just11 wanted it for clarity, okay.12 So parking -- if you look at13 the diagram of the angle parking that was14 part of the discussion with the Planning15 Commission and the developer, where it16 shows angle parking from one end of Beach17 Street to the other end, I've said to18 Mr. Anderson and I'll say it to you, that19 could always be changed according to your20 needs. Do you need one curb cut? Do you21 need two curb cuts? Do you need ten22 curb?23 That is something down the24 road, when a development will occur on25 187 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 Mr. Anderson's site. And if he's going2 to use it for a staging area for trucks3 to do the I-95 corridor rehabilitation or4 reconstruction, the same would apply.5 They'll create curb cuts.6 But if the issue is, We don't7 want any parking on Beach Street, I think8 Mr. Grasso's already testified that he9 doesn't need to have it. It would be10 nice to have for overflow parking or if11 some other development took place around12 there, to have some on-street parking.13 But it's not necessary because14 he only needs 272 spaces, but he will15 have 650.16 Let me finish.17 MR. McELHATTON: I will.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You talk19 about spot zoning. Did we not change the20 zoning classification for the Anderson21 site from G2-Industrial to C, Mr. Kramer?22
C3.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: C3? One24 parcel. One parcel. We changed zoning25 188 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 from one classification to a different2 classification. Isn't that spot zoning?3 MR. McELHATTON: It may not be4 impermissible spot zoning.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well,6 it's -- you could -- look, I'm not a7 lawyer --8 MR. McELHATTON: Well --9 (Indiscernible; parties talking10 over each other.)11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm not12 trying to be argumentative; I'm trying to13 lay a little groundwork about some of14 your comments.15 Floods of people will be moving16 from this venue under I-95, through the17 neighborhood, and back.18 Mr. Anderson's parcel, wasn't19 it in play to be a casino? And did I not20 support that site as a casino?21 So we would have had floods of22 people walking from one part of that23 Beach Street into the neighborhoods,24 which was never going to happen. But I'm25 189 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 using your references as to the2 inconvenience that this venue is going --3 and the adverse impact it's going to have4 on the community when your client has5 been, and is still, trying to figure out6 if he can get a casino there.7 MR. McELHATTON: I'll let8 Mr. Schelter respond.9
Councilman10 DiCicco, may I respond to your question?11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah.12
First of all,13 with regard to the notion about14 Mr. Anderson's other property previously15 being rezoned, I think what happened in16 that rezoning was, in fact, what you did17 was, you brought Mr. Anderson's property18 under the purview of the Central19 Waterfront Overlay, which it would not20 have been before.21 As a G2 property, he would not22 have had to go to the Planning Commission23 for a detailed plan review. He would24 have not been subject to all the reviews25 190 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 that the Planning Commission has. And by2 having it rezoned as C3, he's now subject3 to that.4 So, in fact, while the use5 might be more liberal in terms of putting6 a commercial use there, in fact, the7 process that he would have to go through8 is more lengthy for the Central9 Waterfront Overlay, which is one part of10 this bill.11 The other part is, and the12 reason for the contention about spot13 zoning, is that when you look at how14 carefully you crafted the bill to set up15 the North Delaware Avenue Area Special16 Controls District and the other17 conditions in the code, it would say that18 essentially anything from Rhawn Street to19 the Navy base, in one case, and from20 Spring Garden to Lehigh in another case,21 none of this would be allowed or you'd22 have to go to the Zoning Board.23 And, you know, I have to say24 that I'm going to miss you on the Rules25 191 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 Committee. You and I have worked2 together, you know, a long time;3 sometimes we're on the same side,4 sometimes we're on a different side. But5 you have heard -- you've heard the6 arguments, and you've made your decision.7 But when looking at the8 legislation that you've moved through9 Council -- and I just want to read one10 paragraph. It says, "Unfortunately, the11 positive effects of this growth12 (referring to restaurants, nightclubs,13 amusement centers) remains short-lived14 for the residents and respectable15 businesses in the area. Some bars and16 nightclubs along the waterfront have17 become a nuisance to nearby residential18 communities by contributing to more19 crime, public intoxation, vandalism,20 litter, and other anti-social forms of21 behavior."22 That was part of the23 legislative findings. And when you go --24 let's leave that, though, for a second25 192 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 and go to the parking along Beach Street2 and Schirra, especially along Schirra,3 which is narrower than Beach Street,4 where that is continuously parked with5 diagonal parking.6 You look at the number of cars7 in those instances for that length and8 imagine PennDOT trucks, imagine SJA9 concrete trucks, imagine all the heavy10 construction trucks that will move down11 there during nighttime hours, which is12 when you end up rebuilding I-95.13 That's not going to -- if this14 is not something you can just confine15 during the day, I think that's going to16 be a serious problem and a hazard for17 people who inadvertently back out and18 they get hit by a dozer.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So the20 answer is, then, we'll have no parking21 anytime.22
I think that --23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We'll24 remove parking.25 193 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851
I think that2 would be one answer.3 In fact, we met -- Mr. Anderson4 and I met with Alan Greenberger and Tom5 Corcoran last week. We laid out our6 whole argument to them, and we asked7 them, About how many parking spaces do8 you think would be required? And9 Mr. Corcoran, without prompting said, "At10 least a thousand spaces. That's what11 would be required."12 You've got the Central13 Waterfront -- excuse me, the Delaware14 Waterfront Corporation about to release a15 master plan next week. And we said,16 Well, can you tell us what the zoning17 conditions are going to be in that plan?18 Because, again, it follows up on the19 legislation that you got through in your20 district for the overlay.21 And they said, "We aren't done22 with that yet. It won't be available23 until July."24 So all we're saying is, if25 194 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 you're rebuilding I-95, which affects2 hundreds of thousands of Philadelphians3 and inconveniences them, you've got a4 master plan coming out, we just don't5 believe that now is the time to move on6 this particular project.7 And, finally, there are three8 other properties here which are9 industrial in nature. And the planning10 study that was done by PIDC, which guided11 the Planning Commission's new Zoning Code12 recommendation, said that these13 industries should be encouraged to14 remain.15 If this zoning gets changed,16 there will be three sites on which there17 won't be a community development required18 because they will be, as of right, as an19 entertainment use and will not have to go20 through this entire process.21 So that's respectfully22 submitted. I'll still miss ya.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Some24 people won't.25 195 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 Thank you.2
Anyone else6 to testify on this bill? Please come7 forward.8 (Witness comes forward.)9
Please pull10 the microphone close to you. Identify11 yourself for the record and proceed.12
My name is Neal13 Brecker, President of Fishtown Neighbors14 Association. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 neighborhood as well as the adjacent2 neighborhoods had the opportunity to come3 and hear the proposal from Mr. 8 Just to kind of clarify the way our9 zoning committee works is primarily --10 not primarily. 9 There were approximately 12010 people who attended the meeting from11 Fishtown and the surrounding area. There12 were 95 eligible voters. Ballots were13 given out. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 So the people have testified2 here today. 10 When you're talking about bringing in11 2600 to 3,000 people in a neighborhood,12 suddenly 650, or if you add the 25013 street parking spaces, that's only 90014 spaces. 11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 to echo a few of what the other2 presenters have stated, opposition to the3 spot zoning of this venue -- I'm sorry,4 of this parcel and also what previous5 testimony was given if the leases were6 lost to those adjacent properties, they7 could build as right. 13 The proposed use of the music14 venue is not an active ground floor use15 identified as a key attribute. 18 It is an auto-intensive19 project. 7 So we would concur with a8 number of the other presenters who say9 that this is just not the right time for10 the project. 13
Thank you14 for your testimony.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I just16 have one comment.17
Councilman.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,19 Mr. Chairman.20 Thank you, sir, for coming.21 I apologize. I was not aware22 that there was a sign-in sheet, if I23 misspoke earlier, saying that there was24 definitely not one. I don't think I said25 201 6.7.11 - RULES - BILL 1101851 that, but I want to apologize and thank2 you for clearing that up.3
Thank you.4 The stenographer needs a5 much-needed five minute break.6 (Short break taken.)7 (Proceedings resume.)8
Excuse me,9 ladies and gentlemen. In the interest of10 time, we'd like to continue on with our11 hearing so that we can get you out of12 here as soon as possible.13 Can I please have your14 attention. Would you please cease15 conversation so that we can get the16 hearing started. Thank you very much.17 Councilmembers will be coming18 back as we proceed.19 The next bill is Bill No.20 110344, which is an ordinance approving21 the Ninth Amendment of the redevelopment22 proposal for the Haddington Urban Renewal23 Area, Unit No. 2 and Unit No. 3, being24 the area beginning at the northwest25 202 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 corner of Parrish and 52nd Street,2 including the Fifth Amendment to the3 Urban Renewal Plan and the Third4 Amendment to the relocation plan, which5 provides, inter alia, for the additional6 land acquisition of approximately eight7 properties for residential and related8 uses; and the provision of certain9 relocation services, as required by law;10 and declaring that condemnation is not11 imminent with respect to the Project.12 Please identify yourself for13 the record.14
Good morning,15 Mr. Chairman and members of the16 committee.17
My name is20 Richard Redding. I'm Director of the21 Community Planning Division at the22 Philadelphia City Planning Commission.23 I'm here today to speak in support of24 Bill No. 110344, the ninth amended25 203 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 redevelopment proposal for Haddington2 Urban Renewal Area.3 The proposal authorizes4 acquisition of eight vacant lots and5 their plan for a transit-oriented6 development in the area bounded by 59th7 Street, Market Street, 60th Street,8 Filbert Street, in West Philadelphia.9 This is in accordance with the Haddington10 Redevelopment Area Plan.11 Our Planning Commission staff12 approved it on April 19th of 2011, and13 I'm happy to answer any questions you14 might have.15
Are there16 any questions for this witness?17 (No questions.)18
Please just19 stay there until we finish with the bill.20 Jim Thornton. Is Mr. Covington21 here?22
Please come24 forward.25 204 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 Mr. Thornton. Laura Thornton2 and Jim Thornton, are you in the room?3 Or Joe Marino?4 All right. Could you please5 come forward and keep yourself ready6 until after this next witness. Well,7 come forward and just sit here.8 And we have Mr. Covington9 first, wherever he's at.10 (Witnesses come forward.)11
Hi. I'm Michael14 Koonce, Deputy Executive Director for the15 Redevelopment Authority.16 Mr. Covington should be back17 shortly, but he stepped out. I can give18 his testimony.19
If you can20 give his testimony. Is it prepared21 testimony, and is it lengthy? Or can you22 summarize it and provide a copy to the --23
It's prepared24 testimony, and it's very short.25 205 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441
Madam Chairman,3 and members of the committee, I'm here to4 speak in support of Bill No. 110344,5 which is the Ninth Amendment to the West6 Philadelphia Redevelopment Proposal and7 the Fifth Amendment to the Haddington8 Unit No. 2 and No. 3 Urban Renewal Plan9 for the Haddington Unit No. 2 and No. 310 Urban Renewal Area.11 This bill would authorize the12 authority to acquire eight properties.13 The acquisition will be funded with NTI14 bond proceeds.15 The one occupied structure, one16 vacant structure, and six vacant lots17 will be combined with properties owned by18 the City of Philadelphia to be developed19 as part of a transit-oriented project20 that will include mixed-income21 residential and retail.22 This project will promote the23 elimination of blight and result in24 expanded housing opportunities for low-25 206 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 moderate-income individuals and restore2 properties to the tax rolls.3 Mr. Chairman and members of the4 committee, I respectfully request5 favorable consideration of Bill No.6 110344 and would also ask for the7 suspension of Council rules to allow for8 first reading on June 9, 2011.9
Thank you10 very much for your testimony.11 Are there any questions for12 this witness?13 (No questions.)14
Seeing15 none, thank you very much.16 Is the RDA done?17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yeah, on18 that testimony, yes. Thank you.19
Terrific.20 Thank you.21 Mr. Thornton, could you please22 come forward.23
If somebody2 could vacate one of those seats, it would3 be helpful.4 (Witnesses come forward.)5
My name is Jim8 Thornton. I own 20 and 22 North 59th9 Street, two of the properties that are10 being slated for acquisition by the City.11
And I'm Laura13 Thornton. I am the founder and director14 of Sustainable Urban Development. We're15 a nonprofit dedicated to developing16 sustainable, socially just, and17 inspirational communities.18
And I currently20 run the 59th Street community garden on21 lots 20 and 22 at North 59th Street.22
All right. Back25 208 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 in November, when the Sustainable Urban2 Development was formed by my daughter, I3 gave her a lease for five years on two4 lots, at 20 and 22 North 59th Street. I5 put up the money to basically build6 raised-bed gardens, supply soil, seed,7 plantings. And my daughter went out and8 got about 80 different volunteers to9 build this -- one of the first green10 spaces down by 59th and Market Street.11 We took about 150 bags of trash12 from the site. We actually cleared all13 of the sites that you're talking about.14 They're grassed out right now. And on15 two of them, we're growing enough16 vegetables to feed 3200 to 4500 meals to17 people of Haddington.18 Haddington has about 15 percent19 of its population on public assistance.20 Haddington has the worst school scores in21 the whole State of Pennsylvania. It's a22 blighted area, it's an area that nobody23 seems to care about. It's 98 percent24 African-American. It is basically one of25 209 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 the highest places for incarceration for2 young black males. It's a neighborhood3 that someone has to come in and do4 something with.5 My daughter decided, after she6 graduated from St. Joe's University, that7 some of the prime problems in the8 neighborhood is that the kids drop out of9 school, children basically have problems10 with hunger, they have problems with --11 probably some of the highest special ed12 needs in the City of Philadelphia, some13 of the highest psychological issues for14 children in the City of Philadelphia.15 And I'm just going to let my16 daughter take it from here.17
All right. It20 costs the State of Pennsylvania21 $3.2 billion each year to combat hunger22 in Pennsylvania. That's $2.4 billion for23 medical and mental-health care,24 $330 million in lost educational25 210 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 achievement and worker productivity,2 $517 million in costs for charities that3 relieve hunger.4 One in four residents in5 Philadelphia alone at risk for hunger.6 That's more than double the rates on both7 national and state levels.8 Hunger can often look like9 obesity. Families stretch dollars,10 mothers cut back on meals and buy food11 with little nutritional value.12 Inner-city families rely on corner-store13 markets that sell chips and soda rather14 than fruits and vegetables.15 Hungry people are 30 percent16 more likely to be hospitalized and twice17 as likely to need mental-health services.18 They are 50 percent more likely to repeat19 a grade and twice as likely to require20 special education.21 Now, 440,000 Philadelphians22 receive SNAP, often referred to as "food23 stamps." Still more than 150,00024 residents qualify to participate but25 211 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 choose not to or are unaware of the2 program.3 At Sustainable Urban4 Development, we're taking our first steps5 with our community garden at 59th and6 Market.7 Again, like my father8 referenced, on April 2, over 409 volunteers showed up at 9 a.m. to green10 up 59th Street. We collected over 15011 bags of trash, hundreds of pounds of12 construction debris, and countless13 amounts of broken glass over the five14 lots, which you are referring to at 59th.15 Thanks to the efforts of our16 volunteers, we've been able to build over17 12 raised-garden beds and begin the 59th18 Street garden, again, with the hopes of19 creating somewhere between 3500 and 450020 healthy free meals for the community this21 summer, or this growing season.22
And this is all23 at no cost to the City of Philadelphia.24 Zero except for water, because the Water25 212 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 Department is helping us out.2 This is the first garden we3 wanted to build. We have another one4 slated for across the street and one5 behind a warehouse at 15 North 59th6 Street.7 What we're requesting is8 simply -- you're doing one big city9 block; we're hoping you keep at least two10 small lots. They're 15-by-75, so it's a11 30-by-75. Please take 20 and 22 North12 59th out of this proposal so that we can13 have at least two green lots for the new14 proposal.15
I just want19 to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the20 opportunity to speak.21 Just to give you a frame of22 reference, this is the block where the23 construction for the el has happened for24 the last eight years.25 213 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 Three weeks ago, we had a2 walking tour of this area, with the3 regional director of HUD. Everyone --4 and you're going to hear this not only in5 this testimony but in future testimony.6 All progress isn't forward for7 all people, and we have to respect what8 property rights and other activities9 interest. But also, we have to look at10 the greater good.11 Between that parcel and 63rd12 Street, there is 40 percent abandonment,13 40 percent abandonment, both on the north14 side of the street and on the south side15 of the street.16 The regional director of HUD17 was aghast by the fact that there was so18 much devastation in the wake of so much19 infrastructure investment.20 So what we are proposing to do21 along with these parcels is to create a22 anchor for development.23 I grew up in this neighborhood;24 I don't need a GPS to find it. My25 214 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 grandparents lived on the 300 block of2 Edgewood.3 And what we're attempting to do4 with HUD dollars and local dollars is to5 bring back transit-oriented development6 that is a half a block away from the 60th7 Street el.8 Now, I'm for good vegetables.9 I know that there's food deserts in the10 community, but I also know that people11 need a place to live, and people need12 housing and economic development.13 And as a joke, you recently14 signed a piece of pipe. And you -- as a15 freshman, you told me, You're going to16 have to get in line in the pipeline of17 development.18 Well, here we are, four years19 later, and we're about to look at20 development for the first time in a long21 time in this area.22 Now, I'm for vegetables, but23 I'm for -- there's about 20,000 vacant24 lots in the City of Philadelphia that25 215 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 would be prime real estate for growing2 vegetables. And I think this progress is3 the kind of progress this neighborhood4 needs.5 Thank you.6
Thank you,7 Councilman.8 Any other questions for these9 witnesses?10
The only thing I11 would like to say is that if they take12 it, I hope that they help us replace it13 with another south-facing property.14 And I was told that when Curtis15 Jones was young, he did not eat his16 vegetables.17 (Laughter.)18
Community22 gardening is not just an opportunity for23 economic development, but it's also a24 outlet for community ownership. It25 216 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 fosters the development of a community2 identity, it allows for intergenerational3 and cross-cultural opportunity, it builds4 community leaders, it offers a focal5 point for community organization, which6 can deal with other social issues as7 well, just not the hunger issue.8 As well, with urban ecosystems,9 gardens filter rain water, they would10 help Cobbs Creek. They reduce soil11 erosion and runoff, which lessens12 flooding, saving the City money as well13 as neighbors money from damage from14 flooding.15 By reducing the heat-island16 effect, gardens can also lessen the need17 for air-conditioning and lower our18 electric bills.19 And one of the most important20 things, I think, is the crime prevention.21 It allows for opportunities to network22 within the community, with other23 neighbors, it builds neighborhood24 associations, and it increases eyes on25 217 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 the street.2 Studies show that crime3 decreases in neighborhood as the amount4 of green space increases and that5 vegetation has been seen to alleviate6 mental fatigue, one of the precursors to7 violent behavior.8 In other neighborhoods,9 burglaries (indiscernible) in one10 precinct of Philadelphia dropped by 9011 percent after police helped residents12 clean up vacant lots and plant gardens.13 And on top of that, it's a14 great youth outlet opportunity. They can15 discover where food comes from, basic16 business principles, jobs and life17 skills. It provides a green and18 beautiful place for children to play.19 They can understand issues of20 environmental sustainability.21 And youth volunteering at a22 young age are more likely to volunteer23 more throughout their life. And also,24 it's a great way to diversify a college25 218 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 résumé.2 And just for health reasons,3 studies show that community gardeners and4 their children eat healthier diets than5 non-gardening families.6 Eating locally-produced food7 reduces asthma rates in these8 neighborhood because children are able to9 consume manageable amounts of local10 pollen and develop these immunities that11 they might not have.12 And increasing the land13 consumption of fresh, local produce is14 one of the best ways to address childhood15 lead poisoning as well as their exposure16 to chemical fertilizers and pesticides.17 Exposure to green land reduces18 stress and increases a sense of wellness.19 Gardens restore oxygen to the air and20 help reduce pollution.21 It makes economic sense.22 We're fighting so many issues23 with this beautiful garden. It's not24 just hunger issue; it's a pollution25 219 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 issue. It's overall well-being of2 people.3 And we've put in over 23004 hours of work into this one garden, and a5 lot of people are invested in it and from6 the neighborhood. And by the end of this7 fall, we're hoping to even double those8 work hours.9
Just let me10 commend you, first of all, in your11 enthusiasm and your dedication to urban12 life. I do appreciate where you're13 coming from and the passion with which14 you portray it.15 But I do see an opportunity16 with Councilman Jones, 'cause in the17 years that I've served with him here,18 which has only one term very, he's very19 innovative and will look for solutions20 rather than just try to dismiss things.21 So what I see here is an22 opportunity for not only residential23 development with a bent on24 transportation, but also perhaps a way to25 220 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 fit your program into this overall2 development so that all folks are served3 both nutritionally, housing-wise, and4 from a clean and greener transportation5 opportunity.6 So I think if the lots go, one7 of the things about having it raised beds8 is perhaps we can get some help in moving9 them to somewhere within the community10 around the development and not discount11 what you're doing at all, but to commend12 you.13 And I know if you work with him14 and his staff, they will find a home for15 your gardens and be able to work with you16 to expand them.17
Please25 221 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 identify yourself for the record.2
Sure. Joe Marino.3 This is in reference to the4 bill -- or Ordinance, I should say,5 110344. We are opposed to it.6 This is my mother. She owns7 the property. I use the property for --8 to operate a business on the property for9 25 years in the community.10 This says here, in this Exhibit11 C, "There are no commercial properties12 that will be require relocation in this13 acquisition."14 That's untrue. This is a15 commercial property here that we've used16 for 25 years. It's not a vacant lot or17 anything that they're looking to take.18 Everything's current with the property.19
Okay.24 Councilman Jones.25 222 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441
I mean, that's10 just pretty much it. It would cause a11 hardship to my family. It's a small12 business, and we've been in this13 community for 25 years.14 It's not like -- you know, I15 consider that I grew up in that community16 too. I'm still a young person and I've17 been there since, you know, before my18 teens.19
By the way, no one22 has been notified about this until this23 letter asking to come to this hearing.24 There was nothing, no interaction, zero,25 223 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 no nothing about April -- whatever the2 date was, I'm sorry -- for the amendment,3 which also puzzles me because it talks4 about an area at 52nd and Parrish, and5 we're talking 59th and Market.6 From what I did, I looked at7 some records, and it shows there's almost8 40 vacant lots that the City already9 currently owns that they could do10 something with in the same zip code. And11 as a matter of fact, there's two across12 the street that the City owns that are13 still within that half a block that he14 referred to, to SEPTA.15 We weathered the storm of16 staying in the community through the el,17 everything. We took no dollars for18 anything.19
Is anyone20 from RDA here that could testify relative21 to notice or lack thereof?22 When did you receive the23 letter?24
The certified mail25 224 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 came May 18th for this hearing.2
'Cause I8 know we've had discussions in the past9 about notification and the length of time10 that we give folks to respond to the11 taking of their business or home.12
Right. And I13 don't know how this works, the whole14 legal aspect of it and everything. But,15 I mean, this is a viable business. It's16 been here for 25 years ago.17
What I18 would suggest is to have some19 conversation now with the folks from RDA20 to see if we can try to figure something21 out.22 (Witness comes forward.)23
Excuse me.24 This is Ed Covington, the Executive25 225 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 Director of the Redevelopment Authority.2 I think the notice was provided3 on a timely basis, but I'm not sure what4 the issue is in terms of resolution.5
What's the10 required length of time for notification?11
No, I'm14 just -- is there an answer to the15 required period of time when a person is16 notified about the taking of their17 Business?18
Well, the19 notification -- I mean, the notification20 really is a function of providing them an21 opportunity to come to this session,22 which --23
But we're24 being asked at this point to let the bill25 226 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441 out and potentially vote on it the2 Thursday after this Thursday. What's3 going to take place between now and then?4 Councilman Jones.5
Mr. Chairman6 and members of the committee, I don't7 want to speak to the notification issue;8 that is not my axe to grind.9 But as we start to talk about10 negative impacts of this community, I11 have an exhibit here which demonstrates12 the parcel that we're talking about.13
And,15 hopefully, all members of the committee16 have it.17 And yes, there was 25 years18 maybe of business, but there's been at19 least a dozen years of disrepair. And20 when we went out and walked by there and21 talked, there's no activity there.22 And I don't disrespect their23 business. I want to work it out with the24 Redevelopment Authority.25 227 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441
It is not as3 if we're not compassionate about their4 God-given right in this country to have a5 living.6 But what we are saying is that7 it needs to be worked out with the8 Redevelopment Authority and all of their9 rights respected.10 But in the name of moving this11 project forward, I think it should be12 considered that it's been vacant for, I13 think, a dozen years.14
It's not vacant.15 Where do you get that information that16 it's vacant?17
One at a20 time, please.21 (Indiscernible; parties talking22 over each other.)23
One at a24 time, please.25 228 6.7.11 RULES - BILL 1103441
We have a license,2 sir. We pay use and occupancy on that3 property, we pay real-estate taxes. The4 garage is open on a daily basis.5 I don't know where you got the6 inclination it's vacant.7
Whenever we8 walk by there, whenever I personally gone9 by there, there's no activity.10
There is activity11 there daily. I don't know what hours12 that you walk. But, you know, I -- we're13 not open 24 hours a day, obviously.14 And I don't know -- I have a --15 you know, you chose an interesting word,16 "axe to grind."17