Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Questions from the virtual audience.
Yes, Chair, I have Madigan should come up with their hand raised.
I would like them to speak.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Madeline Shacumba
please unmute and wait to be sworn in
am I unmuted?
could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
Madeline
M-A-D-E-L-I-N-E
Shacumba
S-I-C-O-M-B-A
do you swear or affirm
to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth
You're a neighbor
I'm part of the RCO
Okay, please, please proceed
Okay, we represent the North of Washington Avenue Coalition
We are co-coordinating RCO with SOSTA
Okay, and we wrote a letter saying
We do not object to having a third story
That's fine
But our objection is to the fourth story
and then he wants to add a deck.
We feel this is too much of a burden on the community.
First of all, he's dealing with an older house.
We're not even sure if that house has capacity to hold all these floors.
We were asking him, asked the applicant,
had he had a structural engineer look at his proposal,
and he said no, and that was another concern of ours.
okay we are in the process now trying to get an nco going that's a neighborhood conservation
overlay we do not really wish to have these four stories and he has indicated that right now it's
him his wife and his mother-in-law and they want a four stories plus a deck and although he might
be within the limits of what
is considered
why these zonings
are cool
that we don't feel that
if he wants four stories,
fine. If he wants his deck, no.
I mean, three stories and a deck,
that's fine. We're trying
to preserve our
neighborhood, give a
distinction, because we live in
southwest center of Philadelphia.
And this is an
area that it has a lot of history. We just recently got the Christian Street
regulated as a Black history thing. And we are very interested in preserving what our
neighborhood looks like. And the building he showed you with the first story was a brand new
constructed building. And we're beginning to see that this is not what we want for our neighborhood.
it. Just because someone else has it doesn't mean you have to have it. And we're asking
them not to destroy the, how do you say, aesthetics or what we want to call the beauty of our
neighborhood. And that's why we are opposed to the fourth story. Because that goes everything
out of the way. Everything else around him is street. He wants the fourth story. And
He claims he's within the boundaries of the zoning.
He probably is.
But he sure can't claim hardship, you know.
And that is one of the reasons why we are opposed to the fourth story.
Can I ask her, if you guys are in agreement with a third story and a deck,
would that be something that you all would consider?
We can consider it, yes.
We can consider it if you sit down and talk,
and he shows us the vendings of it, you know,
because we're not sure how big a deck he wants.
Right now, it's just a
reeling, you know.
That's what I saw, just a reeling.
I didn't see a full-skill,
full-deck thing that you
usually see. So I would like to
see it first before, you know. But we
have no opposition to the third floor.
We have no opposition to it at all.
But we are
concerned about his one.
All right. Thank you. So, Chair, can I ask in response to that comment, is there any particular hardship for not going with a third story and a deck instead of a fourth story and a deck for the applicant or appellant?
All right, thank you.
So, Chair, can I ask
some response to that?
i mean i mean the variance is regarding the setback so there's no hardship criteria regarding
the fourth floor um the hardship criteria is uh involves the setback at the third floor
and whether it's the depth of the house which we feel the eight foot setback takes up a significant
amount of a code compliant dimensionally compliant house on this size lot um whether
it's the existing three stories that surround it, that do not honor the cornices to either
side, the two-story cornices on the north side of this block.
I understand on the south side, where they're all flat front three stories, that's a different
story.
But again, there are mostly three stories on this block.
But regarding the fourth floor in terms of a hardship, I mean, that's like saying, is
there a hardship if I want to build completely by right?
And that's a different story.
I understand, I guess, the concern about the fourth floor.
But the 38 feet was put into play.
Before the 38 feet, it was three stories and 35 feet.
And the 38 feet came into play to allow people the ability, because people were coming in for variances for four stories.
You know, lived through this and practiced through all this.
And 38 feet was put in with the idea that depending on your floor to ceiling heights,
depending on what your average ground level was, depending on what level your first floor
was, that you could get four floors in there.
And then I put up the rendering between the buy right and what we're proposing.
And the reality is, is that, and listen, if you've seen particularly on the wider street
like Catherine, maybe not as much on the smaller streets like Pemberton or Cater, but on these
wider streets you see that flat front and you could even see it in my one in my picture to the
east the two properties at the east end of the block that are set back where you have the flat
front and it goes straight up and it's it's like somebody landed a spaceship on it on top of the
roof and here are here you can on the right you can barely see the fourth floor beyond this much
more aesthetically pleasing, which Chacomba and the community group said they're all fine with.
And you can actually see less of the fourth floor from the street, from across the street where this
image is taken, than you can in the image to the right, where you're going to see all of it
towering narrowly above the building. Again, I understand it's unusual because we haven't
really seen this before but again this is the reason one of the reasons why the 38 feet was
put in and they took away the story limit when the code was the current code was passed in august
or when it affected um planning commission so run for me i yeah that's where she came from right
Oh, there's another hand. Okay. Go ahead.
Okay. Sure.
And good evening, Mr. Chair. My name is Brianna Wakefield. I work for Council President Johnson.
Hi. Could you please spell your name for the board sonographer?
Yes, Brianna, B-R-I-O-N-N-A, last name Wakefield, W-A-K-E-F-I-E-L-D.
Do you swear or affirm that the whole truth is nothing but the truth?
I swear.
Please proceed.
Yes, I'm calling to testify as the Council President Johnson states that he has no opposition to this matter.
Thank you very much for taking the time to close. We appreciate it. One more, please.
so so i think that's while we're waiting for them i think that's telling that the council
president has taken position and not non-opposition rather than deferral on this thank you mr chair i
have a hand up from our murray spencer they've been allowed to speak hi could you please state
your name and spell for this tonight uh yes murray spencer m-u-r-r-a-y s-p-e-n-c-e-r right
you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do mr spencer are
you a neighbor i am a neighbor i'm also just sostener's only chair okay please proceed sir
so um nothing um against what mr orphanese said um total agreement however the reason that we
wrote the letter of deferral is because as he stated we're starting this is the second fourth
story fourth full floor story project we've seen and i don't like where this is going which is why
I rewrote a letter of deferral as opposed to non-opposition.
I'd rather the owners be on the ZBA than on us, because people come, I'm the face of zoning in this neighborhood, and people come at me, ask me, well, why did you approve this?
I'd rather the owners be on the ZBA than on us
because people come, I'm the face of zoning.
But I don't know that this is a very good idea of putting three stories of living, two actual living, and then a deck, which, and I'm an architect, and I usually use the per square foot calculation for decks to be stronger than living spaces.
So I use 60 pounds per square feet because people tend to congregate more and more people tend to congregate on a deck.
And that's why you have root collapses. I mean, a deck collapses because more people are on decks than they are inside of houses.
So I'm just worried about adding three stories on top of a two story structure to build a rubble stone.
And I don't want that on us on us. So if you want to prove it, that's fine.
We defer to you. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Spencer. Thank you for calling.
You know, those are very, those are very good concerns. And I can assure you that nobody involved wants that on their shoulders or on their hands. So there will be a structural that will be done and it will have to pass the city's muster to make sure that this building can withstand the loading of the additions and including the decks.
Planning Commission.
So Ron Bednar, City Planning. First name Ron, R-O-N, last name Bednar, B-E-D-N-A-R.
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do please
proceed ryan comprehensive plan recommends no change to the rsa 5 residential single family
zoning at this location the applicant has not shown that an economic detriment will occur
if the required uh if it's required art or if they are required to comply with the eight foot setback
uh as stated in their zoning code city planning commission recommends that the board deny
the proposed dimensional variance thank you and mr orfinity so i'm going to hold the vote on this
until next wednesday at 2 p.m i just want to have some time to talk to the members of the board
where we stand with this okay and again thank you very much sure all right thank you sure um
is there anyone in the virtual audience whose case has not been called from the two o'clock list
um chair i am i have a hand up from roger perry i can go on him to speak if you will
roger perry's at the next group um okay no other hands anybody need a quick break or do you want
to keep going quick break mr chair please we have a five minute for the staff five by three
Evening. Good evening. My name is Bill Bergman, and I will be chairing this meeting of the Zoning Board of Adjustment. With me is our Vice Chair, Ismail Shahid.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Our Board Member, Cheryl L. Gaston.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Our Board Member, Tanetta Graham.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Our Board Member, Michael Johns.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Our Board Member, Tyah Wynn.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Also present is Hillary Emerson, our attorney, and Ian Haggerty, our executive director.
Please be advised this meeting is being recorded.
Your participation in this meeting indicates your consent to be recorded.
The video will be posted on the ZBA website approximately one week.
Excuse me, Mr. Chair, is your microphone on?
All right.
We can't hear.
We're getting.
You can't hear me?
There's no volume in the room from.
Wait, let me start again.
For people who are remote, they can't hear.
All right.
I'll go start again.
This is the reporter.
I could hear the chair for what it's worth.
All right.
All right.
That's perfect.