How much does that cost? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Time and a half. 69 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc.
So we'll 8 save money by filling these positions? 9 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yeah. 10 Once we put a class together, we plan on 11 filling those positions. 12
Well, when 13 will the class be put together? 14 COMMISSIONER AYERS: There's a 15 test in process right now.
So when would the class start? When is the earliest the class would start? DEPUTY
Councilman, that actually depends on a number of different things. And I just want to correct one thing that the Commissioner said. Yes, if we -- there is obviously a way to save money by not hiring a particular person and filling it 70 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. on overtime. It depends on -- right now since we don't have the person working, we are filling the position with overtime.
So I know that you said that you could automatically save money. I think you have to take a look at where that tipping point is, and I'd have to provide that to you, because it could be that it does not save us any money to hire the person and it's better to do it on overtime, but we have to look at that on a case-by-case basis when we're looking at the class.
Okay. So with respect to the class, when is the earliest we're going to have a class? DEPUTY
As it is now, we're still looking at when the earliest time would be. I have not set a time, and the Commissioner and I still have to figure out when we're -- 71 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc.
Is it likely that there will be a class in FY11? DEPUTY
I'm trying to have it so that depending on the attrition rate that we're anticipating --
But your current overtime numbers include filling these positions through overtime? DEPUTY
So if we were to eliminate these 15 positions, you didn't have a class in FY11, we could save a firefighter salary times 15? DEPUTY
The problem with that is that we're using the budgeted position numbers in order to pay the overtime.
Well, that was my question. Does your overtime in 72 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. the budget reflect the fact that these positions are unfilled, and you said yes. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: Yes, it does. I think from last year's testimony before Council and from your suggestion, we fine-tuned the way budgets are prepared. We added more money into overtime to reflect the, I believe you said, the more accurate way of reporting it. DEPUTY
That's what we're trying to do. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: And that's what we tried to do in this budget. You'll see more money in overtime and you'll see a larger amount under the category Vacant Position Savings.
So how much does a firefighter make? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: A firefighter is in the $50,000 average.
How about a new class? 73 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: They start out at 40,000.
Plus fringe? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: Plus fringe.
General Support Services Division, there were three vacant civilian positions as of November that are budgeted to be filled in FY11. There is a 35,000 a year Administrative Assistant position. Has this position been filled? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: No, it hasn't.
How long has it been vacant? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: Since before November.
Who is performing these duties now? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: They're really not being done or -- we have a two-person unit in the Management Information area. They're trying to do 74 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. the best they can. This position here is more we're putting in our NFIRS, National Fire Incident Reporting System. This position is a vision to provide support to those two people and to all the field personnel to get the best we can out of the system. Right now, you know, things probably aren't getting done that should be.
What? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: That's hard to say.
Okay. Has the $62,872 a year Executive Assistant position been filled? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: No, it hasn't.
How long has this position been vacant? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: This position has been vacant since before November.
Yeah, I know that. 75 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: It's never been filled.
Nobody has ever performed these job functions? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: That's right.
There's another job we can eliminate. Has the 45,000 a year Management Analyst position been filled? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: That hasn't been filled in the last year.
And who is performing these duties now? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: I picked up a bunch of the duties. Deputy Commissioner Devlin has picked up a bunch of the duties. This is related to PhillyStat. This position was technically our Computer Program Supervisor position, who retired.
Except that those positions have all been transferred to the Department of Technology. 76 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: No. The Department of Technology took the hardware technical people, not our management analyst group. This is more on the software management reporting function side.
But it's getting done? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: It's getting done.
Thank you. Emergency Medical Services Division, in the EMS Division, has the 90K a year Fire Paramedic Service Deputy Chief been filled? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: No, it hasn't. This would be a new position where that level of command has never been established.
And why would we establish that level of command at $90,000 a year when they seem perfectly well supervised today? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: 77 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. Well, it would be -- the extra cost would be the difference between the Deputy Chief and the Battalion Chief. That would be the increase. We would lose --
Okay. That's a good point. So which Battalion Chief position are you eliminating in the budget to -- DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: We're talking Fire Service Paramedic Battalion Chief.
Right. So you're eliminating that position? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: We would promote a position.
And you'd keep a Battalion Chief? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: We would -- no. We would have --
You'd have both positions? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: No. We'd have one less. I think it's reflected in the budget. If you looked, 78 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. one position went down on reflects that.
. Okay. What's the difference in salary? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: Fourteen percent differential.
Plus fringe? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: Plus fringe.
We do want to have more paramedics and improve response times. I want to be clear about that. Of the 67 unfilled positions that are in the budget, how many are we going to actually be able to hire in FY11? DEPUTY
If we have everything, Councilman, and if everything gets cleared up, we have a class of that we would have ready to 21 go. 22
It 79 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. would be that 25.
And you're 9 budgeting for 67? 10 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: 11 Well, the 25 would be the first class we 12 would do right away. Then we would 13 attempt to hire more during the year. 14
You're not 15 going to have two classes in 2011? 16 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: 17 I think if we didn't have the lawsuits, I 18 think we would have two or three classes. 19
But 22 you don't have a list, a Civil Service 23 list. So how would you hire? How would 24 you hire? 25
Council, you're absolutely correct. At this time, we have 25. We would get 25, and at that point, we would be looking, but as we've already indicated in our earlier testimony, it is very difficult to do it, but we would keep looking. If we could, we could. I think the answer to the question, the reality of it, you are absolutely right, we probably would have the 25, period.
But if we do that, Councilman, understand that we do not have the overtime built in for --
The overtime has already been testified is built in to include the current overtime for paramedics. If you hire 25, overtime should be reduced. DEPUTY
That's not the way that -- and I see that 81 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. Mr. Agostini is on his way over, but I will state that if we just take that money and just try to say that we'll take those positions out, we are not going to be able to do it and we might be losing medic units, and we don't want to do that.
How many safely -- well, we don't lose medic units because we don't budget for positions that are unfilled. I mean, medic units aren't tied to -- what you're telling me is medic units are tied to whether or not there are positions even if they're unfilled. That wouldn't make much sense. DEPUTY
Councilmember, Steve Agostini, Budget Director. To your point, to the extent that we are budgeted for positions, 82 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. assuming that all the EMS positions are filled, if they are not filled, they have to be filled with overtime dollars. The overtime dollars are more costly than the straight salary dollars. To the extent that they're included, they are included at a level that would suggest at some point we're going to run out of dollars, and if you were to look at the current run, either from the quarterly City Manager's report to date or I think the run that is in the budget detail in the pages that you're very familiar with, it shows that the current spend rate is about $170 million in Class 100, which is about a million one over what was budgeted both for FY10 and what's been budgeted for FY11, and I think right there is sort of evidence that we're running over in some cases. We probably should come back and disaggregate for you what we're spending in overtime for EMS versus what we would have spent if we had filled the 83 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. positions to get more finely attuned to your question.
No. I understand. It's just that the sky is not falling and we're filling positions, some of which are $95,000 a year positions and --
Steve, while you're up there, I'd like to help the Councilman, too.
Section 45 -- this is bothering me. Section 45 we talk about to implement FY09 staffing reduction plan, a million dollars. Now, is that a reduction or is it not a reduction? We got a different -- I'm thoroughly confused on this, because it does show that it's supposed to be a reduction.
So, Madam President, to your question, if you look at the budget detail, which I believe you 84 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. have in front of you --
-- in the summary page, for FY10 it assumed that there was an overall budget of 169 million roughly. The spending, however, for FY10, if you look at the same page, is roughly $170 million. DEPUTY
Which shows that there is a million dollars, in essence, deficit for the Fire Department budget for that period for FY10. And as I think both the Deputy Mayor and the Commissioner testified to, there was a decision made not to make the reductions in staffing both in the Battalion Chief Aides, which was part of the Plan B that this Council adopted in September of 2009, the Plan B budget that was then submitted and approved by the State and PICA, along with a number of other 85 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. Lieutenants providing non-firefighting direct services. The expectation that we have moving forward is that -- and as you see, the budget for FY11 is again back down to $169 million -- that there will be changes in staffing levels necessary to hit the $169 million without any loss in service, without any reduction in response times for firefighting apparatuses. But you are correct and you have noted, there is a million-dollar gap there.
We are looking, both the Deputy Mayor and I, are looking to the Commissioner to ensure that that occurs and that they will manage to that $169 million without an impact on service. DEPUTY
That's exactly right. That's the challenge, and we are -- we came forward and we thought 86 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. that we'd be able to achieve it one way. We were not able to. And now we have a better handle, especially now on our reporting and use of the communications that we're able to have, we believe that we'll be able to do that and we'll be able to manage to that level, and that's my commitment to this Council.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There are a significant variation on the level of overtime spending across the different divisions in the Fire Department. In the Firefighting Division, the average overtime spend per employee is $7,434. And in the Fire Marshal's Division -- I'm sorry; the Fire Prevention Division, it's $12,421 per employee. In the Fire Marshal Division, it's the highest of any of the divisions at $15,556 in overtime 87 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. per employee. Could you explain what work is being done in the Fire Prevention Division, which is responsible for public education, the smoke detector program, the Fire Museum and designing signs and posters that would require overtime? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Some of the services that we do for the community, for some of the Council, also for some of the outreach programs happen on Saturdays sometimes. Sometimes they happen in the evenings where the firefighter will, after their regular duties, will extend for maybe two hours or three hours to do a program, an early evening program. That's for the Fire Prevention Division. As far as the Fire Marshal, some of that overtime is spent in court appearances where they have to testify in arson cases and other cases.
With respect to staying with Fire Prevention before we 88 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. move on to Fire Marshal, that adds up to $12,421 per employee? What oversight of or approval of overtime is required before people schedule stuff? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I sign off on all overtime.
Before they -- COMMISSIONER AYERS: Before they do the overtime. It comes to me, a memorandum, on what the service actually is, what the need is. We make the decision as to whether or not it's going to be allowed.
Is there a way to do scheduling such that some people are always on duty at night to cover night meetings or some people are always on duty on a Saturday where they're still working the same number of hours a week? Have you looked at schedule shifting to eliminate this overtime? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. One 89 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. of the things that we do is, we allow the Battalion Chief, the Captain of the Fire Safety and Education District or that engine company or ladder company to go out and they will -- providing they're not called away on an emergency or have training, they'll actually go out and do that fire prevention activity. But one of the things you have to understand is that here in Philadelphia, when you stop and you look at the staffing that's available, we are -- we compare nowhere to what other cities staff for fire prevention on a regular ongoing basis.
Well, it just seems to me that if we have -- it's not clear that during regular shifts people are fully engaged, and then it seems to me that there is times when they're out. If truly we are this busy where we can't change schedules to cover nights and weekends such that we can avoid overtime, at $12,421 and $15,556 for the Fire Marshal's Division, it seems 90 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. to me we're at the tipping point where a few extra people are going to save us overtime money. DEPUTY
And, Councilman, I thank you for that, and I will -- we'll actually do another analysis of it and we'll see exactly where that would take us. So thank you.
Thank you. The overtime spending in the Firefighting Division has been reduced significantly over the past few years, falling from 15.8 million in '09 to 14.6 million in FY10, and it's budgeted for an additional one million drop in FY11. Oh, the President just went through this. Thank you. Does the Department have any plans for reducing overtime spending in the other divisions, other than Firefighting Division? COMMISSIONER AYERS: We will look at it. We actually have a meeting scheduled to actually go over that now. 91 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. So it will be looked at.
The overtime spending in each of the other four divisions has increased over this same period and totals 5.67 million for FY11. So there's real money there. Regarding the budget direction scenario we received for the Fire Department, there are six items totalling 14.2 million. Could you please describe whether the cut is already reflected in the proposed budget for each item? DEPUTY
Councilman, I didn't catch your last -- that last point. You dropped your voice. What was that again?
In the budget reduction scenarios that were prepared and provided to City Council, regarding the budget reduction scenario we received for the Fire Department, there were six items totalling $14.2 million. For each item can you tell me whether the cut is already reflected in 92 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. the proposed budget? DEPUTY
No. 4 The answer to that would be no. If you received the information that -- the way that we would have to get to that number would be either to deactivate or brownout various numbers of engine, ladders and ALS units, and the reason why we rejected that is because we did not think that was the appropriate way to go in order to make those savings. So the answer is no. 13
Well, there's lots of -- Water Fund rate increase per Water Department. DEPUTY
Remove prior year funding of purchase of medic unit vehicles. DEPUTY
Right. As you know, the Fire Department doesn't have -- we don't have any control over the Water Department. That's the amount of the rate that we have to pay and 93 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. that's why our Class 800, I believe it is, figure is up to $6 million, because we have to pay that to the Water Department for use of the water.
Well, how are you going to reduce -- as part of your prioritized reductions, you have Item 6, which is Water Fund rate increase per -- DEPUTY
It was an increase, so we had to reflect that in the budget.
Oh, I see. That's not a cut. You have a Water Fund 7.5 percent reduction, 461 reflected there. DEPUTY
It may be a double matter, but I can tell you that the water rate went up to us and we're --
I know, and as part of the budget impact scenario, it suggested that you can lower that amount by 7.5 percent and pay $461,000 less. 94 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. DEPUTY
Well, I mean, that was a -- when we put this together, there was a question given to me to see whether or not I would be able to get that from the Water Department, and the reason why this reduction was not taken is because the answer to that was, no, we can't do it. So that's why we are not advocating that this is something that could be done.
What would be the impact on citizens of the cuts reflected in this six-item scenario? DEPUTY
Well, I mean, I think that to reduce or to try to seek additional at this time reductions in either engines, ladders or ALS medical units, you would have to see an increase in the various response times across the board, and I do not think that that is something that we would want to go into at this time, which is why we decided not to go into this area.
So for cuts 95 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. involving deactivation or brownout of an engine company, ladder company or medic unit, how would you choose which companies to brown out or close? DEPUTY
Well, we're still trying to upgrade our technology capabilities so that we'd be able to do this with just the press of a button. Unfortunately, I'm still not there yet, so we'd have to do it through an internal data analysis like we did before. The good thing is is that we have the ability to do it. It takes longer. The bad thing is that it still takes longer and we can't do it by an automatic analysis feed that is part and parcel of our IT. We're getting there and we're hoping to get there soon or sooner, but it would take us some time to actually do that kind of internal study.
Okay. These questions relate to efficiency savings from the use of technology. In 96 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. Commissioner Ayers' testimony on he testified that 90 percent of Department staff are now submitting electronic documents instead of paper documents and you expect 100 percent compliance by the end of FY10. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.
I also was glad to see you testify that this has led to significant reductions in processing time. What efficiency savings in terms of reduced staffing needs or otherwise is reflected in the Department's proposed budget as a result of gaining these efficiencies, in civilian staff or otherwise? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, it will be process time as well as less use in paper, those types of things that we were doing before, memos.
Right. But if there were nine people performing a task and the processing time was eight 97 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. hours a day and now we still have nine people performing that task and the processing time for them on average has moved to six hours a day, that means we could have seven people doing the task instead of nine. So what I'm looking for is, what efficiencies have you driven in your civilian staff or other staff as a result of getting these efficiencies through -- the whole point of going paperless is to create efficiencies, even if it's through attrition. COMMISSIONER AYERS: That is correct, and it's not always accomplished through attrition either. Our resources as far as utilizing paper reports, et cetera, goes throughout our entire department, civilian as well as uniform, and sometimes we've gained process time where we can plan more, be on the street more, in the field, downtown as far as administratively. We've also been able to release some of the workload and efficiencies that's needed by individuals 98 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. to do their job, period. So as far as greening and getting rid of the paper, that's one of the things that we focused in on. DEPUTY
Councilman, can I also add, a lot of the times when we are talking about how to improve and get better efficiencies in technology, I think what we have to first recognize is that there is a deficit that started. We have a lot of -- we seem to have a number of people -- and I can tell you in Public Safety -- a number of people that do quite a lot, like beyond what they're really supposedly capable or really capable of doing, but they actually step up because we have great public servants. They step up and they do more. Then we bring in a technology improvement that allows them to do their job, which is already overburdened, to do their job better and then we actually bring and lessen the strain on them to get their job done, that's an 99 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. improvement, but it doesn't mean that we can take that person and get rid of that person. I don't think that we're there yet. I think that what will happen as we get additional technology, I think we'll be able to meet some of the things that you're talking about, but I think that we have to recognize that in some of our systems because how old they have been in the processes, by just wiping away the processes, there's usually an improvement. I think that as we get used to seeing how much we can drive that further, I think we'll then start to look at the kind of innovative stuff that you're talking about.
Who in the Department is responsible for looking at where paper processes were gone or eliminated? Because 90 percent of them are gone, right? So who in the Department was responsible for looking at the workflow processes that changed as a 100 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. result of this thing and then recommending where there are potential efficiencies, through redundancy or attrition or whatever? COMMISSIONER AYERS: We currently have a team that's working to actually do that.
Who is it? COMMISSIONER AYERS: A strategic plan. Well, that's our strategic plan team right now. It's the executive team led by Deputy Commissioner Beatrice as well as a new member of our team who helps to direct our strategic process. That's Ms. Eryn Santamoor.
And have they found any efficiencies? COMMISSIONER AYERS: It's a process that continues to go on --
How long have they been doing this? COMMISSIONER AYERS: They actually started the full overview April 101 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. 1st, a couple of days ago.
This is a new initiative, Councilman, that we're trying to pull on board and it's part of the strategic plan that we're pushing out.
Would you agree with the premise that the whole point of making operating expense investments in technology or cap ex investments in technology is to get a return on that investment? DEPUTY
And that only through increasing productivity of our existing workforce can we provide better levels of service with the same number of people or the same level of service with fewer people as a result of those investments? DEPUTY
I 102 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. believe that's the goal. I think that's the goal of public service.
So why doesn't your budget reflect anticipated savings as a result of this change to a paperless system? DEPUTY
I think what we're trying to do is to make sure that we are managing to where we are and not necessarily get into a habit of anticipating savings that may or may not materialize and then we'd be in a budget deficit situation.
If we were to lower the amount we allocate in Class 100 or Class 200, don't you think that would make it more likely that you'd work quicker to find the efficiencies? DEPUTY
I would disagree, because I think it would be hard to find a way to -- as the Commissioner said earlier in his testimony, 95, 96 percent of his entire budget is really wrapped up in personnel, 103 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. and if we just decided to lop off Class 100 or Class 200 kind of material, we would not really be able to do the job that we're sent to do, and as the Council President has indicated, we're already strained to do the job that we're doing now.
So there's 5.67 million in overtime in non-firefighting functions. DEPUTY
Believe me, Councilman, I agree with you. I've been -- I mean, one of the things that I've been doing is to look in all of public safety. I'm looking at trying to control overtime. You'll hear about it today in Prisons. You'll hear about it 104 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. here. You'll hear about it in Police. Overtime is what we're trying to do and that's the way we're going to get our way out of this. I think that we will -- and I agree completely with you, that that's where -- I'm zeroing in on. I'm trying to put in processes to help my departments focus on that and to eliminate it so we can return the kind of department that I believe that you want us to be, which is a leaner department that will provide the services in a way that we'll be able to do it at a savings for the City.
So what would be the consequences of us cutting a million dollars out of the non-firefighting overtime? DEPUTY
You will end up challenging us to provide the 105 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. service that we are already strained to provide with less people because --
Well, the overtime is actually, again, structured into that in order for us to have that -- to meet that staffing level. I think that --
Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Sanchez.
Thank you. Good afternoon. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Good afternoon. 106 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: Good afternoon. DEPUTY
Always a pleasure working with the Fire Department. I have a couple questions related to our recruitment efforts, because we talked about the limitation of recruits. So I wanted to ask, when was the last time we updated our Civil Service process and are we looking at our qualifications and our testing as one of the tools that limits our ability to recruit? Have we looked at that process? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Personnel Department is currently going through that process, and that's the department that actually works with that. We do help with professional advice, things like that, but that's Personnel's duty.
There's a few departments and clearly public safety is always one of these issues 107 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. where we always hear about these recruitment problems, but I never get a sense that we're re-looking at our test, that we're re-looking at our qualifications, that we're re-looking at that process as a mechanism of ensuring more folks can qualify or even if -- and, again, not jeopardizing public safety, do we have a test that's years old? 11 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, that 12 is being looked at right now. I can 13 guarantee you that Al D'Attilio is on it. 14
And as 15 it relates to that, where is it that we 16 lose people? I mean, we recruit people. 17 People test. Where is the major 18 drop-off? Is it at the testing level? 19 Is it at the background level? Where are 20 we seeing the drop-off that leads us to a 21 smaller class or a pool? 22 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It's 23 various areas. In talking with the 24 Director, those things were discussed, to 25 actually zero in and look at the entire 108 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. process, find out how we can recruit more, which we had an excellent recruitment, but also moving into a process, which I'm not privy to, which is that actually development, test development, all of those things that would happen in that testing process. He's assured me and I feel confident that they'll be looking at each and every process and trying to remedy any areas where we lose folks.
Because I would think the Personnel Department should be facilitating this for you, but it's a reoccurring theme and I just don't feel like we always pay attention, because it requires us to kind of go back and say, what's our test look like, what are those things. And I think it's important, because if we're really going to tackle this overtime in these public safety departments, we have to look at that. It's hard to tell folks we can't hire, I mean, given the economic times 109 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. and these fields that you would think would have natural pipelines. I was encouraged by what Councilman Kenney said around us doing a more deliberate job with our School District, but it's an issue that continues to come up in public safety that's a grave concern. As it relates to our overtime, again, are there any -- we had this discussion. Gillison and I have had this discussion just first on the parade issues. Are there any special events where there is not a dollar-to-dollar reimbursement as it relates to emergency medical? DEPUTY
A dollar to dollar? As it is now, we are, as you know, Councilwoman, we are working on trying to find a way and a formula that is fair for all that would allow us to get significant savings to the person purchasing the service so that it would hopefully not necessarily be a dollar for 110 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. dollar. If there is a way to do that, we're looking for it.
But right now the answer is no, it is still dollar for dollar.
So for Phillies games, Eagles games, concert providers, they reimburse us dollar for dollar for those types of services? DEPUTY
As it is now. We did change the policy this year where I have made sure that we are only reimbursing people who are coming in on overtime, to the extent that I'm able to control that, and that's for Police and Fire as well. We are trying to make sure that we do not pass those costs for straight time costs on to the parade, festival, whatever.
I guess my question is, are we doing that with everybody -- 111 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. DEPUTY
I'd like to look at a scale as it relates to like games, concerts, and I want to ensure that we're also going to be doing the same as it relates to the casinos, and I know they have a separate deal. I want to look at that in comparison. DEPUTY
I'll be glad to sit down with you, Councilwoman, and discuss that.
As it relates to minority contracting, I noticed that you only outlined professional services. So my question is, where are we as it relates to other purchased goods, materials, supplies and why isn't that reported? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: I would think with the Fire Department, a lot of the equipment purchases are very 112 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. specialized, the apparatus, stuff like that. So we were showing what we really have control over. Plus all the other apparatus and supplies goes through the Procurement Department. Whatever their bid requirements are, we follow. DEPUTY
Procurement and Fleet, if you think about for the Fire Department, are the two departments that actually purchase all of the equipment for the Fire Department, and it is in a way that is done that has -- that there's usually only three persons that are even in the entire industry that provide the service in some respects. So that would be the better place to actually ask that question. I'll be back for that, if you'd like, but I can provide that to you and I'll be glad to do that.
So every other purchase made by the Fire Department is done through an umbrella contract? There's nothing else? Because 113 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. you have camera services. You have other things. None of these things that are individualized for the Fire Department are part of our goals in terms of minority and Philly-based contracting? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: Jack's Camera Service would be part of the overall Procurement Department's citywide contract. So the Fire Department would really have no input into it.
So where we buy our fire alarms that we raise money, none of that stuff -- it just goes through your traditional -- DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: Through the traditional Procurement process.
Okay. So there are no goals attached to -- DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE: Procurement has citywide goals just like every other department.
I 114 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. just -- again, you're purchasing millions and millions of dollars in other services, so I guess we'll have to ask that of the Procurement Department, but I'm interested to see how we ensure the specialty items that we buy at the Fire Department have a potential of being bought by Philly-based companies, let alone the other requirements. DEPUTY
As it relates to the Water Fund situation, does that mean the Water Department has meters at our stations? And who comes up with that number? DEPUTY
I want to -- I'd have to get back to you on exactly that process. I know that we are 115 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. metered and I know that our -- but if you think about the amount of water that the Fire Department uses, I'm sure that there is a particular process. The hydrants are not metered. So whenever you're putting out the fire at the hydrant, that's not metered, but all the other matters, buildings, firehouses, that stuff is metered.
That number seems really high, and I know that we're working at breaking down these silos, but I want to make sure that the Water Department is not balancing their budget on the backs of the Fire Department with a number that's just arbitrarily -- DEPUTY
I don't think Deputy Mayor Rina Cutler would do that to me now. Come on.
I really don't think that would be a 116 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. matter. So, no, I would not suggest that. (Witness approached witness table.)
Councilmember, Steve Agostini, Budget Director. Actually, the entire City has received increases in water rates just like everybody else in the City. As you can imagine, my initial reaction was not enthusiastic when the Water Department sent the bill, but we are subject to the same water rates and subject to the same billing --
The Water Department functions under rate guidelines that are part of bond 117 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. indentures associated with capital improvements at the Water Department. So something we have to conform to.
And therein lies my concern. Again, you have departments that rely on a certain amount of money to be able to borrow and do those improvements. I want to ensure that we're not doing that on the backs of other departments, because it's like taking from Peter to pay Paul. So I just think that that rate, unless you can tell me it's metered and there's a mechanism for this, that they shouldn't be allowed to arbitrarily set a number like that.
Well, I certainly don't think they're arbitrary and I've certainly had more than one conversation with the Deputy Mayor and the Water Department Commissioner for the very reason that you're raising, not likely to sort of absorb a few million-dollar increase across the City very happily. 118 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc.
Okay. Well, I'll look forward to that information as to how that formula is developed. That's all. Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
I want to go back to a question that Councilwoman Quinones raised relative to the recruitment. Who prepares the exam for the Civil Service Department? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Personnel is in charge of that.
Do you have any input into what the content of the test might be? COMMISSIONER AYERS: 119 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. Occasionally Personnel will call and ask us professional questions about testing, that type of thing. They will tell us that we have an opportunity to talk with other testing companies around the entire country just to let folks know that that's going to be opening up, things like that, but as far as the actual test, it's a Personnel function.
So who in the Personnel Department has the capacity or ability to draft test questions relative to the Fire Department or the functions that may be required of the person taking the test? COMMISSIONER AYERS: I believe they also look at professional services to develop the test. DEPUTY
If I may, Councilwoman, most of the time what 120 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. happens, that there are several companies that just basically provide these kinds of technical tests for cities, and what normally happens is that the Personnel Department would engage different companies to help develop the test. There are certain national companies that actually do that. And whenever a test is about to start, you would put out an RFQ or an RFP to see who you're going to hire that would be able to develop the test, and especially when it comes to Fire because of how litigious this particular question is and has been for over 35 years, this is something that is left to that specialty, and then the City basically hires the company that helps put the test together. So that's the process.
So to follow that to the next question she proposed was, are you able to review the falloff to see why individuals might not be passing the test? We may recruit a 121 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. number of people, but what happens in the end that you get -- maybe you recruited 200 and you end up with ten. What happened to the other 190, and are you able to review those applications or have a discussion with them as to what happens? COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. Well, for this year, there has been an improvement in the whole process as far as testing, where there is monitoring from the recruitment process through to the notification process that a test is being prepared, through to the actual testing, who enters the room, who exits the room, who actually makes the list, who gets hired. This whole process is being put in place for this test.
Do you have any input into that process? COMMISSIONER AYERS: For review.
For review? 122 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Correct.
So do you have any idea what the drop-off is or why you have such a drop-off? DEPUTY
At this time, Councilwoman, I would just suggest that we can try and look back at you. I know -- get back to you on that issue. I can tell you that for litigious reasons or for trial reasons in this area for literally almost 40 years -- I remember when I was in law school, I actually argued the Memphis Firefighters versus Stotts decision back in 1985. This is always left to a separate company and a separate part so that the Commissioner is not seen as favoring one side or another. They give and provide a certain level of detail expertise. They then turn it over to either a company that has gone through and has been seen by the Supreme Courts in various states as being okay, the test is fine, but just as a result of the Connecticut decision that was made a 123 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. couple of months ago, this entire process is always in change and always being refined, and the Personnel Department of the City works with whoever is going to win the contract to help put this test together. They will work that out. The Commissioner will be able to review and give some idea about these are the parameters, but this is best left to them to make sure that whatever test comes up, we will be able to withstand a challenge in court, because no matter what, whoever wins or loses, you're going to end up getting sued one way or the other, so you have to make sure that you get the best test that you can, the fairest test you can in order to fulfill the goals of the Fire Department.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee. 124 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc.
Thank you, Madam President. Very quickly. It's more of a statement than a question, but in one of your answers, Commissioner, to Councilman Green about overtime, you talked about how sometimes you have to -- you send personnel to events on Saturdays, at nighttime, whatever, and just for the record, I just want to say, I know I've had some of those events. I guess all Councilpeople have. And your department has always been one of the most responsive and most informative at these events. So I just want to go on record saying we appreciate that and appreciate what your department does on that. COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you, sir. DEPUTY
Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. 125 4/6/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc.
Thank you. Are there any further questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)